We look into the Hemi lifter failures and the dreaded Hemi tick
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- Опубликовано: 30 май 2024
- We unpack the lifter oiling issue that plague the late Hemi.
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WOW, over the years I have watched literally every video on RUclips about the “Hemi tick” and the hemi lifter/ cam issues, and every video was long and made by Hemi and Mopar experts and none of those videos were satisfying nor even had pen-pointed the issue… now here comes Mr. Powell with the very best video on the subject, effortlessly diagnosing the problem and explaining it to where a child could make sense of it…. And you’re not even a Mopar head!!! You explaining the oiling system was awesome. I’m in shock that they oil the lifter last with the oil coming *from* the pushrod. How backwards is that!?!? 👏👏👏 Bravo
Brand really doesn't matter, it's all nuts and bolts in the end
Glad you liked it!
UTG had the same observation. I really never realized mopars feed lifters through the pushrods, despite owning a dodge with 318 long enough to tear the top end down for a burned valve. Other than that, the 318 ran good and mileage was fantastic. Drove that thing around a long time.
@@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259the magnums feed the lifters through a gallery. They use AMC type lifters, even if they are roller. The magnums don't have a shaft rocker, it's pedestal rockers like hydraulic 302/351.
@@ericd7532 Correct. Ever heard of engineering? That might be the difference.
I retired from Chrysler after over 35 years as a tech. I have replaced untold numbers of cams and lifters in these engines, and yes, most were in fact police package cars. The oiling system is passable on everyday and traffic driving, but the police cars sit and idle on the side of the highways for hours at a time, then jump on the throttle when they start a chase. The extended idling makes for a low oil feeding to the valvetrain and the sudden load of a full throttle launch makes for a low oil presence situation on the lifters and cam. The results are obvious, and well documented all over the media. Your brief and spot on accurate description here is one of the best and easiest to comprehend examples I've seen anywhere.
Thank you, we appreciate it!
my hemi ram pickup has 20K miles on it.. its 2 years and a few months old.. I have spent hours and hours idling it as during covid it was my mobile office when I couldnt use my monile office bus.. and it has the dreaded Hemi tick... at 20K miles.. with lots of idling... the truck has never pulled a trailer a day in its life.. its hauled a few loads of firewood and parts for my restoration bus projects but really light use... and it ticks at startup really loud and then is a mild tick the rest of the time.. my 1978 School bus with an Inernational 392 thats never been aparthas a quieter engine...
I 100% agree . Running a grove in the lower body of the lifter and locating it up in the bore to lube the roller makes sense .
After watching your video and listening to your explanation it's no surprise these lifters are failing. Thank you for continuing to post some of the most informative and helpful content on this platform.
Wishing you and your family good health and fortune in the New Year to come.
Thank you sir
I had a 2004 Ram 1500 that collapsed two lifters when I started it up. Still under warranty and the dealer replaced the heads, then set the electronic governor to 1500 rpm in park. They implied that I was revving it up and racing. I’ve since sold it and bought a 2005 Ram 2500 with 5.9 Cummins.
I’m happy now.
Diesel ftw!
The local machinist that has been doing all of my work (turning cranks, etc.) didn't go into such detail, but in a nutshell told that the oiling system is trash/a poor design. Thank you for breaking it down and showing every little nuance as to why it's so bad.
Glad to help
My new friend, you are awesome at explaining and teaching, thank you for your expertise.Ive been wrenching for a long time been to many machinists, and i would be proud to have you as my machinist. Richard.
Welcome aboard!
Good report Daniel. Its mind blowing how engineers think. can't wait to see your solution in the future. love your channel.
Thank you!
This isn't the only mopar that oils the top end this way.
I sincerely doubt this is the engineers fault. Probably management trying to cut .000003 cents per block.
@@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259 So there are more boat anchors from Mopar out there? Who would have thunk it.
Excessive idle time seems to be the number one killer on these. They do get some splash oil once the rpm comes up around 2K but if it's sitting there at idle for
30-40 mins they get dry. Also Melling has a hard coat anodized HV oil pump that is supposed to be way better than the OEM pumps and it may help hide the issue.
I say hide because more oil isn't really fixing it.. I agree something needs done about the lifter design it's self.
That all being said... I still love my Hemi's :)
@IhateRUclips That's what I've always told people. That and making sure to keep the oil topped up and changed regularly. I've got well over 200,000miles on my 2011 Durango Hemi and it's still going strong but then I'm a 20-30min drive each way to work. A solid 10 mins of that I'm going 50mph. It gets a chance to run at full operational temperature and burn off all the moisture and crap.
@@eurbanautotech My 2011 SRT8 Challenger is at 90K right now. I installed the blower myself at 42k miles. I change the oil every 6K with Mobil1 0-40 Euro Car Spec.
I don't idle it excessively and MDS has basically never been used since I am always in Auto Stick mode and when I did the blower I disabled MDS in the tune.
So far so good! I doubt mine will go 200K making 650 at the wheels. I will probably be doing a 426 block at some point in the future... So if Daniel has an updated lifter by
that time, I will go that route plus that Melling Hard Anodized HV Oil Pump too. Extra insurance :)
My 04 Ram (Non MDS) went 150K before I had to take it off the road due to rust. The Hemi was still going strong.
glad to see you back at it. 1st
Appreciate it!
This is exactly why I would rather have an old school 426 hemi. Have to remember that 105 degree angle in rush hour stop and go adds to the low pressure with bad geometry problems just daily driving.
I have a cleveland that had a rocker fail thr beat up the lifter. I reached out to get a new set and they came with a slot from the hole down to the gallery slot. It looked like drill drift. The shop im using said they were trash. I called the maker and he said that clevelands don't get the oil they need up top and this helps. So when you mentioned the slot down to the roller.. the light went on. Love this! I feel like I'm in shop class
I have just purchased a 2015 Grand Cherokee with the 5.7. Only 14,000 miles on it, but all slow city driving, then unused for 5 years. I have ordered the Melling 10452HV oil pump and will use Penrite 5W-30 10 Tenths racing oil, change every 3,500 miles. I hope this will give me a long life engine.
Good luck!
I heard from a trusted source / friend who’s a die-hard Mopar guy that was very much “in the loop” back when the Gen.III Hemi and the 4.7 were being developed to replace the old LA / Magnum engines that the Gen-3 Hemi was supposed to be a DOHC design when they started development but eventually they modified it to a cam-in-block pushrod setup instead for packaging and cost reasons instead. He never mentioned the issues with lifter oiling that you mention here but if what he says is true then the whole “top down” valvetrain oiling design you showed us here makes a lot more sense….if that top end oil gallery and supply holes were originally designed to feed oil to cam journals and hydraulic lash adjusters up top it seems like it would work pretty well. Sending the oil through the rocker shafts then back down the push rods to the lifters is definitely an unconventional and inefficient way of doing it, and like you mentioned the placement of the “tube” for top end oiling blocking much of the splash lubrication the cam and lifter rollers would usually get just compounds the problem. It’s definitely an interesting issue to think on.
*I remember someone mentioning that it costed Mopar more to produce the 4.7 SOHC than the Hemi.*
So maybe that is why they got rid of the 4.7
I had a 4.7 in a Dakota and a Durango. I thought they were pretty good for the small size.
Stock turned 6k and with a SC Tuner it redlined at 7k (it ran out of power before the 7k upper limit).
Now with a Hemi Jeep I am wondering why my redline is like 5800 or whatever.
Feels like my Hemi wants to rev more but instead slams into that lame limiter.
I am wondering how high they can safely go (stock) if I got a tuner.
How about cutting a .010”-.020” groove in the lifter bore from the bottom of the bore to the gallery like we used to do with old solid flat tappet builds? Groove the bores to drop oil onto the wheel/cam interface… I’ve still got a tool to do it by hand…
Definitely would help
Maybe Daniel needs to take a set of stock lifter and add an oil grove so the rollers get lubed properly. If that works Daniel. Then you will have people pounding down your door for the improved lifters. 😊❤
Again, great analysis.
One thing is that I've heard you say "oil gallery" many times and it tweaked my ears because of the second word.
I'm 61 and rebuilt my first SBC at 16. I guess I first heard or read it as "oil galley" and then probably heard it repeated like that or read it like that numerous times.
Some research proves that my instinct was wrong.
It's "oil gallery," as you say.
Although I pronounce "oil" quite a bit differently than you do. LoL, But that's neither here nor there.
I learn quite a bit on your channel! Thanks!
Yep, galleys are on ships!
I’ve heard it pronounced “oilyul” mostly from up north. Southerners usually pronounce it “oil” without the extra syllable. Not saying one is correct and the other wrong. Just different.
That's one of my minor pet peeves. A galley is a kitchen on a ship, and a gallery is a passageway.
Pete - I am old too, and had the exact same reaction you did. Lol!
New subscriber. Great channel bro. Always waiting for the next video now. Thank you for showing us all your hard work.
Glad u enjoy
Love your videos very informative! thanks and have a great new year!
Glad you like them!
Thanks Daniel, Thats just a crazy way to get oil in a lifter. I was not aware it was done that way. Todays vehicles have way more miles on them. Worn out rockers and shafts would obviously lead to lifter problems. Thanks for the video lesson !!!
You bet
Best Learning Channel ever Thank you
You are welcome!
Glad to see you're feeling better. I hope the rest of the family is as well.
Yeah, just now we are getting over it, it was pretty rough...
You make so much sense!!!
I try hard!
In my opinion the next progression is to start calling aftermarket lifter companies and ask for a face to face meeting. Well before phone calls I'd patent a either repair or upgrade lifter design then go to the lifter companies to start prototyping new lifter for testing and redesigning and testing and so on. Great breakdown though!!!
Thank you! I do not know much about the Hemi Engine but I did know that there is a problem with worn cam lobes. After your explanation it is very obvious why there would be problems! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and insights I appreciate it! 👍💯
Glad to help
Can't wait for part 2 .
I've owned Hemi's since 2003. I no longer let them idle. Idling kills them. That and I use a liter of diesel grade oil at each oil change. I think, my personal opinion, what helps is having some EP ingredients in the oil. But yes, I agree, lack of oil splash/oil starvation is the root of the problem. Also, they eat pushrods, probably due to the startup items you mentioned.
Good stuff and good attitude. Where you are sure you say so; where you are not sure you say so. You have good knowledge but also admit you don't know it all. Well done. Keep it up. Retired mechanic/machinist in Land Down Under.
Thank you sir!
I believe your thinking is correct, good explanation. I was looking at a diagram of the hemi oiling system and I had an idea. I'm older than you and remember my friends who ran fords in the 60's-70's at the dragstrip sometimes plugged the factory oil passages and ran internal or external tubes to feed the rocker shafts directly from a main passage and also to keep more oil flowing into the cam bearings and lifters. Chrysler seemed to make a simple system more complicated. Good video
I remember the crazy stuff from the 60's. I used to wince when I watched someone drilling out the main jet of a 2 barrel carb.
Some engineers don't like to follow the crowd, even if what the crowd uses works, they want to put their own "stamp" on it. Sometimes the "stamp" reads : failed! Enjoyed your explanation.
Great video!
This assessment is right on and agrees with other machinists opinions.
Hey Daniel, great info on these Hemi's, of which I own one. I've watched another Dodge Tech's RUclips channel (Reignited - Cycle and Automotive) and Skylar has mashed this topic out quite a bit. His conclusion is that it is low oil pressure, especially when idling for extended periods of time...like in service vehicles, which causes the majority of problems with lifters. He states that the 6.2 Hellcat engines are not suffering lifter failures, like the 5.7's and the 6.4's. He's narrowed the culprit to the oil pump. The 5.7 and 6.4 share the same pump, but the 6.2 Hellcat engine has a thicker rotor in its pump. He goes on to show how a Hellcat pump, or the Moroso high-volume replacement unit, provides MUCH higher pressure at idle speeds. Some of the weaker pumps are indicating only about 18psi at idle. If your theory on the oiling circuit is accurate then that would explain the lack of proper oil getting to the lifters & rollers at idle. My 5.7 idles at ~35PSI so I'm lucky to have a "good" pump and, according to my latest Blackstone Labs oil analysis, I have no metal or contaminates in my oil. I also have a 6-speed Challenger, so no MDS. Believe it or not, I change my full-synthetic Castrol oil once per year. I only put about 8000 miles on it annually. I also use Wix XP filters exclusively. My car just rolled 83000 on the odometer. You and Sky should collaborate on the subject. Being a Dodge tech, he can validate your explanation of the oiling circuit.
Im not a Hemi guy but found this very interesting thanks for another great informative video and Keep them coming!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you, for sharing your insight, sir! Makes sense.
Very welcome
Great content. I think focusing on the design differences between earlier gen 3 hemis years 04-08 Vs the 09- to current would be the first place to start. The earlier hemis did not have this problem. You explain some of the differences in this video. And all which probably lend to lower Idle oil pressure on the later hemis causing high rates of failures to cam and lifters.
I was just wondering that myself. I’ve got a 2020 rebel with the 5.7. At hot idle my RPM sits at 525-550 at best and 31 psi oil pressure. I’m curious what the factory idle RPM was on those early models? The early engines also used a different oil pump. I left a comment up top with a thought about not being able to find any examples of a bad lifter in a 6.2 hellcat engine. The 6.2 has a higher volume oil pump, and I imagine that the RPM is probably a little higher at idle. I wonder if that increased flow managed to properly feed the lifter the required oil to keep it from going bad?
Hello. I like your work and videos. I've rebuilt several of these hemi's. If I had the resources, I would drill out the oil tube casting galley area and install small nozzles to spray the oil upward towards the cam lobes. I believe that would be the cure for the lifter failures problem. Oiling from the push rods down is the first thing I discovered and hated from the first one I ever rebuilt. Have a great day and a happy New Year!
Good job you're on the right track.
Ty
Brother you do great informative videos.
Glad you like them!
Great analysis. I had no idea. I ignorantly thought they worked the way almost all other engines work. Thank you for doing the research in a thoughtful and methodical way that anyone can follow.
Happy New Year!
Very welcome
Yeah uncle Tony's garage did a peace on this and he poured oil over a lifter at that flatter angle and it didn't oil the roller. Powerful engines. I own one but you think they would over come this problem but they didn't.
Yes, I remember that video. I think he said the main problem was created by the raised camshaft location.
I still remember leak down testing all GM lifters with Kent Moore specific setup and then knowing every lifters was primed, we never had any ticking issues back then as you would pick up a faulty one before it went in, we would do this for just about every make of engine and lifter eventually as failure rate was zero with this method for lifters and cams, also the quality aspect of starting engine with no ticking noises was an expectation put on use as was starting first time with no backfires and idling correctly as it was also and expectation that if you put cam and lifters in you would time the distributor correctly too .
That’s wild as hell. I didn’t even know that there was a set-up like that.
thanks for explaining this problem
You are most welcome
I am dodge ram jeep shop foreman. We do alot of lifter failures in police cars and agriculture trucks. I think a lot has to do with maintenance. I have noticed very few failures on properly maintained vehicles. The farm vehicles and public service vehicles around here are rarely serviced on time. I do believe the oiling down from the pushrod is a poor design as well. I know why they did it but it still is questionable
I think Uncle Tonys Garage did a vid on the Hemi cam problem, if I remember right they moved the cam up in the block and is now shrouded from getting enough splash lube. Its a good vid.
As a new hemi owner my heart felt a sudden pain when you called it a turd lol
Get used to it.
Great video thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the informational video😮
Your welcome!
6:12 "Third grade nonsense"... :) True that, Daniel! This ridiculous oil system makes hydraulic flat tappet cams look good: the oil flows from the lifter through the pushrod to the rockers.
Exactly!
You are 100% wrong. PRESSURIZED oil is fed to the lifter bodies DIRECTLY thru the two oil galleries on each side of the camshaft. The rocker shaft & rockers & the pushrod sockets are fed oil up thru the heads and rocker pedestals pretty much like Chrysler has done since the '50's. The biggest difference is the hollow pushrods which started around '90 with the Magnum SB's.
@@budlanctot3060 Nope! Thanks for playing but not on SBCs and Corvairs! GM got it right, oil flow just as I described.
@@ercost60 willful ignorance is no excuse for stupidity
@@budlanctot3060Did you watch the video?
Awesome content!
Appreciate it!
Great video.
Thanks!
I had a Charger R/T with the 5.7, a Charger Scatpack with the 6.4, and now have another Scatpack with the 6.4. They all ticked, MOST of the time, i did find that if i run in sport mode, which disables the MDS system, i don't have as loud a tick. Odd, but, i hate the MDS. Hemis... if they are not ticking, they are not running.
Interesting video.
Glad you enjoyed it
I would bet a pepperoni pizza & a cold bottle of beer that many of the oiling problems stem from the design engineer that was a first year graduate from college with a degree as a mechanical engineer. This was his first big project.
Very interesting!
Thank you for your knowledge and video's USA 🇺🇸
No BS, pro insights, thanks!
Glad you like them!
I sure hope someone makes a better aftermarket lifter an thanks for the info on the oiling system that is a bad design compared to others that should be getting oil before the top for sure an I'm definitely interested n seeing more hemi content
Haha - Dorman
This would be a very easy test to prove out.Take a fully assembled motor, remove the intake and valve cover and pump oil thru the motor via oil filter adapter. Should be able to see exactly what is going on.
Thats the brains at the Dodge/ Chrysler engineer these last decades.
Sad
Oh but they love them hemi boat anchors.
Good job man.....Dam what a design.
I'm glad you like it
Finally someone talks about the big stupid oil galley they cast into the center of the block that starves the cam of splash oil.
I’ve contemplated an EDM hole in the bottom of the lifter body to spray oil directly on the roller.
I have over 300,000 miles on Gen 3 Hemis with zero issues. I use conventional Lucas heavy duty oil stabilizer to aid in the lifter dry start issue. I am on my third hemi. The other two were brand new, this one was used. I hope that doesn’t come back to bite me. The previous owner Idled the engine about 15% of the total run time.
Unicorns do exist
@@powellmachineinc3179 best possible response.
Brother, that's very well explained. Now someone needs to step up and make a good fix.....great video...........😎😎
LS Swap. Also, throw a decent trans in while you are at it.
Definitely
I wonder if arp can come up with a waisted bolt to allow a little more volume, but... still its kind of hinky. I wonder how much trouble a rigging prelube pump would be on this block. Oiling lifters from the top means zero can go wrong - a broken spring takes out the lifter etc.
I think it's a industry wide lifter issue. My 2008 Ford F350 with a 6.4 liter Diesel did the same thing. One of the lifters rollers seized and started to skate over the cam lobe destroying it.
My 2013 Hemi ate the cam and 4 lifters at 65,000 miles. It also had 7 bent valves. Don't know what bent the valves, there were no witness marks on any pistons. I like how it runs, when it runs.
That sounds like a cam timing and/or excessive rpm, and/or low on oil problem to me.
@@budlanctot3060 Imagine making a diagnoses without even seeing the vehicle.
@@eriklarson9137 an engine is a simple machine. I don't need to see the vehicle, it's irrelevant. There are only a few most common scenarios for those symptoms.
@@budlanctot3060 Kreskin
You'd think Dodge would be smarter than putting a restrictive obstruction ( bolt ) through an important oil gallery like that..among the other issues that that system has and you've talked about.
Have you researched the ticking issue in the '18, and newer, Ford Mustang 5.0? Anything I've found on it point's too the HP fuel pump, however I've replaced mine and it still has it. Albeit just A LITTLE quieter.
Interesting! I've been wrenching for 50+ years but mostly GM. My brother has a RAM 1500 (I forget what year, pre-2020) with the 5.7L Hemi in it and has a good number of miles on it. I've seen videos of the "tick" and his doesn't do it. He runs it hard too pulling a camping trailer!
Nice dissection of the hemi oil system. Would it possible to ream out that hole around the rocker shaft and head a few thousandths to allow mor oil up through there? Or could doing that starve another component? This is all fascinating to me, I love this mechanical stuff. I have a V6 Camaro I commute in, when it starts consuming more than 1qt in 2k miles like it is now, I'd like to get into that engine and make it bit of a powerhouse, as much as a V6 can be reliably anyway.
Ultimately the lifter is the issue, that's what needs to be fixed.
Good video, what about installing a high volume oil pump with the rebuilds also? Thanks
Definitely would help, but it isn't addressing the problem
I watched a video that said excessive idling was killing the cams. Not enough oil splashing around.
How about trying the Comp Cams link bar style lifter (P/N 15820-16)? They supposedly oil through the side of the lifter body. Would be interested in hearing what you think of them as an option to improve the gen 3 hemi valvetrain oiling.
Daniel I once was looking at new pickups I stopped at a Dodge dealer I was looking at the new Hemi had just came out I turned the key and started it up and it had a lifter ticking the salesman told me it would quit in a few seconds and that it wasn’t no big deal I got out of the truck and drove off .
Absolutely
I had a 2012 Challenger R/T with the 5.7L and Tremec 6 speed. 40k miles - Hemi tick started to become audible... dealers wanted nothing to do with it. Sold the car 6 months later. Such a shame.
My chrysler ticks, been doing it for 40,000 miles.
A bad apple destroys the WHOLE bushel & that fact has been around for 100's of years. Fix It Again Tony!
Yep
I've got a 2013 ram that I parked last year because of this exactly. Number 5 cylinder is dead. I would be glad to send you my engine as a guinea pig to try your idea on the lifters with a groove cut. Sucks, it's a great truck otherwise. By the way, it failed at 120k miles. I could bring the truck if that helps, it's not doing anything sitting in the driveway.
Lots of them fail vecaude of 10k plus oil cjange interval. I just had my 07 5.7 blow up. I had another worh 180kiles and i was gonna do the cam. Wish i knew about your shop id havw got one from you guys. I wasnt gonna spend 1600 on a cam kit minus lifters and gaskets.
Uncle Tony’s garage covered this a while ago too.
I have a 2012 with just 50k miles and I'm concerned this will happen eventually. Thinking about adding the higher pressure oil pump.
Couldn't hurt
I've got a 2017 Ram with a 5.7 Hemi. No issues at 54k miles, but my truck does very little idling and I'm religious about timely oil changes. Thanks for your easy-to-understand presentation style. I just recently found your channel and sure appreciate sharing your knowledge with us.
Good video, probably because internal combustion engines are going away they didn't want to invest any more money into a proper lifter, I guess the Ford guys are fortunate they don't have these lifters due to the overhead cams maybe.... the ls and the Hemi are too nice engines until the cylinder deactivation nonsense damages everything.
That's a bleed off hole for the oil to get more on the cam shaft I think. And the lifters get too pumped up full of oil that they push too hard on the cam and valve stems. Like a chain that is too tight. It breaks the bearing its on. The lifter pushes too hard and kills the rocker and cam and lifters too.
No....
@@powellmachineinc3179 My mushroomed valve stems tell me a different story.
I’m so glad you said that not that I was gonna buy a hemi, but that just seals the deal. I will never touch a Dodge product jeep Chrysler Dodge hemi stuff. It’s just terrible.
I think oil pressure in the galleys by the lifters release the MDS lifters. I think you can put non mds lifters in, put 6.1 MDS solenoid blockoff plugs in and I think the lifters will get oil through the pushrods and the galleys all the time, not just the pushrods. I wonder how 6.1 lifters are holding up?.....
No hemi lifter has a provision to oil through the lifter
Looking forward to hemi videos. Dealing with the dead cylinder on wife's truck but can't get the time to deal with it now due to building an engine for the jeep can't have both 4x4s down at the same time. Recently did oil change and couldn't find any metallic in the oil and hopefully it is simply a broken spring. I know Ford and AMC not hemi.
Good luck with it
I believe oil pump is is substandard volume is ok pressure is the killer in my opinion modifying the lifter creates . pressure drop wiat and density of moving parts also drain back issues
It's just a bad design bed design in reading it needs to be redesigned
I almost bought one a few years back, so glad I didn’t
First off, I like your videos - Thank you.
I'm not a mechanic, but just wondering if a Hemi lifter was disassembled and a hole drilled into it - like the LS lifters - Would that extra lubrication help the lifter live longer, (provide extra oil to the valve train) and "cure" the tick ?
Little more involved that just drilling a hole
@@powellmachineinc3179 I accept your point, but as I wrote, I'm not a mechanic.
They dont need splash lube from the crank.
My 44o came factory with a windage tray.
The problem comes in when people idle in gear for long periods.
A windage tray doesn't stop splash, it's literally pouring out of the rod and main bearings...
Maybe they get it fixed I love making money but I would like to do more than Hemi camshafts and lifters.
The only 3rd gen hemi oiling diagram I can find on the Internet shows a separate galley feeding each side of the lifter bores. I don't know if that is correct but why would they send oil down the pushrods if the lifter bores are fed? Maybe I'm missing something as I'm not a Mopar guy.
Yes all engine are that way, the problem is the lifter, not the oil gallery
add a bit of plumbing side oiler for lack of better term old racing tricks
The oil is already at the lifter...the lifter has no provision to take the oil, it's a lifter issue
I have seen the same stupid pushrod pressurised hemi lifters on late models. It seems the multiple displacement system is bleeding the lifters. I have seen it mentioned that early gen3 hemis without mds have conventional lifter oiling from the normal lifter galley. I don't know if this is true
No, all gen 3 hemis oil from the pushrods
@powellmachineinc3179 not exactly true. Yes, there is SOME lubrication from the pushrod, but the lifters are mainly fed pressurized oil thru the two lifter galleries in the block on both sides of the camshaft. You are mis-informing people, you need to correct the statement that the lifters are ONLY oiled thru the rocker shafts. You are getting yourself & other people all wound-up by spreading disinformation.
Have you heard of any updates or internal/external oil feed lines like have been done over the years on AMC and Pontiac blocks?
It would be irrelevant, the lifters are the problem, till u fix the lifter it's a moot point
You know there was an engineer sitting in his chair staring at the computer screen and said,"I have a better idea boss" , and its cheaper.
Joe
Lol
what i don't understand before the mds most didn't give trouble. i service a fleet of hemis from when they first started these trucks haul a lot of weight some have gone 600,000 miles no problems most have gone over 400,000 but they are road miles and run Amsoil for engine oil. the only ones that have given trouble were the ones that were in town miles.
29 years as a Mopar dealer Technician here and I have to say you're not correct as to how the MDS lifter is activated. Oil presser to the lifter bore activates the MDS lifters and pushes the buttons in on the sides of the lifter, deactivating the lifter. The opposite of the LS. The problem with the Hemi is three fold. First is low quality roller bearings material used by the lifter supplier. The needles will just flake apart till they are gone. Then beat the cam to death. Chrysler came out with an updated lifter because of this with larger needles. Second is with long idling of the engine and the MDS system not being activated feeding oil to the side of the lifters and cooling the roller on the lifter with excess oil . The non MDS engines do feed oil to side of the lifters all the time and still have lifter failures but far less than the MDS equipped engines. Third is the MDS lifter it self. The lifter when the MDS is activated relies on a light spring inside the lifter to keep the rest of it's valve trains lash tight. But when this spring starts weakening it can't keep the roller on the lifter in constant contact with the cam. So the roller is bouncing on the cam beating it's self to death. As far as oil splash Chrysler says the that oil splash or lack of splash has no effect on the cam and lifter life. As there is more than adequate lubrication under normal driving condition. So is idling for hours normal? Chrysler says no.( I'm not saying I totally agree with Chrysler on that statement.) Personally I think more oil would be better. I have had Hemi's in my bay with 300k miles and never been apart. They always changed the oil on time. And most of them have their foot in it all the time. And I have some that idle for hours at a time and never see very many highway miles and they are the ones that are most likely to have problems... Keep up the videos! I enjoy them.
Thanks for your VERY helpful reply. I really appreciate it! I have a 2016 Dodge Durango R/T with 67k miles on the the 5.7 liter non-MDS engine. Oil and filter changes every 5k to 7k miles with Shell Rotella 5W-20 full synthetic oil and Mobil 1 oil filters. Unfortunately, it has developed lifter noise. Given your above reply, and that my engine is non-MDS, it sounds like the only suspected culprit is the substandard roller bearings in the lifters.
When did the updated lifters come out?