Pyranha Scorch VS Dagger Code "On Water Test"
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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Pyranha Scorch VS Dagger Code "On Water Test"
Walkthrough Videos
• Pyrahna Scorch Medium ... ---------------- Scorch M Walkthrough
• Dagger Code "Detailed ... -------------Code Walkthrough
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#scorch #pyranhakayaks #daggerkayaks #daggercode
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I am a 67 yo trail runner and boater and I LOVE the paint splatter.
After awhile it started growing on me
Although only a dagger outfitting thing, I had to replace the ratchet on the leg lifter as the retention spring broke.
Fair warning if you’re ever doing this:
The seat has to come out
You need spare webbing as the stock webbing needs to be cut to take off the ratchet
And sewing supplies for the new webbing
Apart from that a lazy and slightly guesswork run with little to no sewing skills took me about 4 hours, replaced with a pyranha ratchet so much stronger and works perfectly now
I'm Not a fan of those cheap plastic Ratchet Dagger Waka LL and few others use the springs break in them Pyranha has the Best by Far
Your comments are pretty spot on. I’m 240lbs and went with the large Code. I paddled a large scortch and felt the high performance demand. As with my machno the pyrahna boats are narrower in the knee area. I think this is why the have less primary stability. The wider dagger has very good primary stability which is what I find to be more helpful when firing up bigger more complex rapids. Both boats are great at staying on top of the water. The scortch will get ya if your not driving it. Maybe I’m just not that good of a boater but I find it more intimidating to step up to harder rapids in a boat that requires precise instruction. For sure both are great boats. Thanks for putting this video together.
Cheeers
Thanks for the feedback appreciate that
Scott, I'm curious as to how you compare your large Code and your Machno. Which carves better into eddies and ferries better across fast current? Which does a better job of blasting through sticky holes or GETTING OUT once you're stuck in one? Waterfalls? Which do you pick if you're nervously contemplating a first descent into a solid Class IV steep creek? Oh, and I love to front surf. Thanks in advance.
@@larryk1865 The Machno is a 4X4 like the Dagger Nomad. The Code has more precise control in nailing your lines and ferrying. The Code also does well in staying on top of the water and blasting past holes. I personally love the Code as it also much more stable. Both are great class V capable boats. The Machno is for sale.
@@wuckhere I don't know what a 4x4 is, but I was surprised to hear you say that the Code is more stable. Very interesting. Thanks!
Very cool side by side vid. You can't tell much about a kayak from a GoPro video, but the first run where you just cruised the same lines, you could see the dagger rode up over features cleaner. Really appreciate these boat reviews - keep em coming.
Thanks this video was little more difficult to make but wanted to do more for everyone because this is a burning question right now
Two nice rides you got there Wade. Thanks for getting us beta on the latest and greatest! 🙌🏼
Personally I think I would probably prefer one run/boat at a time, with you describing how it’s feeling in the moment, rather than the side-by-side (little hard to watch both simultaneously). But it definitely was entertaining, especially when both clips had you kind of talking to yourself. 😆
I have a Scorch and I sat in a medium (and small) Code. Medium Code is just way too wide for my liking; 27” is overkill in a Medium IMO. Made it feel really big, and my knees felt too wide. Add to that a high rail that takes a lot of lean to engage, and this boat may not feel too sporty for smaller or lighter paddlers.
As for the small, while it felt good as far as boat size, the knees on it were even lower, beyond what I could handle. I know you barely fit, but I still think you need to cram yourself into a small and get on the water for us, even if only for fun. Maybe get Matt in a Large too, as you guys discussed on pod. ✌🏼
Thanks for Feedback will see with next one and agree with that some will not like the width of the code but it doesn't paddle like its super big
@@WadeHarrison I have an update and some additional thoughts for you. My wife and I were both able to demo Codes a few months ago (S for her, M for me). Like you predicted, I actually found the Medium didn't paddle as big as I would have expected from sitting in it. I wish they would've added a little more edge, or maybe lowered the edge, but we both liked it enough to get on the wait list. My plan is to paddle it for a while to compare it to my M Scorch, and maybe use it on stuff where I could use a little assist/forgiveness from my boat. My wife's plan WAS to have the S Code replace her S Machno. However, we found out last week that S Scorches were on the way, and we were able to get her a demo via Fusilli in the meantime. (I also got to demo the X...so sick!) Perhaps not surprisingly, my wife loved it and decided to buy one instead of the Code. (She paddles a S Antix 2.0 a lot, and likes edges.)
Anyway, after she had the Scorch demo out for a couple laps, we rewatched this video to help her decide, and we both agreed it's better than we recalled, and that watching the two boats side-by-side (split screen) was useful. I really wish you had done a voice over, rather than leaving the two audio tracks running, since you sometimes talk over yourself (both tracks have talking at same time), and it can sometimes be difficult to tell which Wade (Code or Scorch) is speaking. Plus the on-water audio can be hard to hear at times. A more thorough summary at the end would have been really nice as well. Still helpful, but you know me, I figured I'd pass on the feedback. :)
@@kevinhill.8 that’s awesome you got to try both and so funny yeah when doing this video I was so close to just voice over the paddling part then was like nah looking at it now I totally agree that voice over would have been the way to go thanks for the feedback buddy
Always fun to come back to these A/B's, Wade. After a full season in the Scorch L and a fair bit of time in L and M Codes, one of the things that really stands out to me is now much more dynamics Scorch has - like the whole boat is in tune. The Code feels like one of those shopping mall horse rides - the bow pops up, then the stern forces it back down...then it stalls. It's almost like the two ends work against each other, and I found it much toucher to punch the bow into wave crests and foam piles when I wanted to - it just wants to pop up. The Scorch, by comparison, can do either once you get used to balancing your weight forward or astern, and the more sleek stern makes the bow loft more predictably.
...at least that's been my experience. ;-) I'd love to see the Scorch versus the Puffy Steeze video.
Let’s see what the rEactR looks like in a few weeks and that’s the comparison
Thanks Wade. The side-by-side comparison is awesome!
Glad you liked it!
Great comparison and spot on with the rail - Scorch let me know right off the bat when I got lazy the first time 😂😂. Thanks for all the reviews Wade !
Oh I think it does that to a lot of paddlers..
Great video Wade, I got to demo a large Scorch and Large Code this past weekend (kitted up I'm around 200), and agree with your assessment. To me the Scorch felt more precise, a touch faster, and easier to hit the exact line I was aiming for, however I did get spun around on a couple of areas where I was coasting through easy boogie water. The Code was noticeably more forgiving, especially in boilly water, but didn't have locked in feel of the Scorch. Also, I felt the Scorch was super easy to roll, the Code easy, I've had a shoulder injury so try to go to my off side on rolls and appreciate an easy to roll boat. Anyways for me, paddling in the PNW, Loved the Scorch, really liked the Code. I also got to demo the Scorch X, didn't like it as much, I could feel the extra foot of length, and it was probably too fast for my skill level,
Yes Totally agree PNW area scorch is the choice CO area and southeast northwest Code would be my first choice but feel I can make the scorch or code work everywhere if needed
I’ve owned a M Scorch for a while now, and was able to demo both the Code and the X, and I think this ☝🏼 summary is pretty spot on. I’m in PNW as well, btw. I’m thinking I will still grab a M Code (when they finally become available again 😒) just to see if I like it on boily and/or rocky stuff that’s pushing my limits. 🤷🏼♂️
My first boat was a mk 1 Burn. Could never get the outfitting right. Switched to a 2012 mamba with contour ergo. Never looked back. Keen to test the Code in the UK. Patiently waiting
The Newer Pyranha outfitting is a improvement but yeah Dagger Hard to Beat
Easy Scorch with Dagger outfitting, the rails on Scorch are similar to my Burn 3. I like the narrow fit of Pyranha. But in my area, the Code would be better, low water and rock gardens.
Yeah low volume rivers code
I'm not so sure the Code would be all that bad in high volume on Upper Death on the Colorado in Glenwood Canyon. It would definitely be the boat to use on the South Fork of the White River (Colorado), but almost no one runs that. In fact my sister and I have never seen other kayakers on it. Since it's almost entirely contained within the Flattops Wilderness area, it's never been cleaned up and you really have to know the river from the shore through its entire length before even attempting it because there are so many log jams and strainers along the way. You need to know when to get out to stay safe, and you will need to walk a lot to keep from dying in a strainer. There is one decent sized waterfall on it but it has a big log in it which effectively blocks the line, so what would be an excellent ride over the fall is made into a portage. Can't cut it out due to RARE II rules, and I suppose that's okay. It's good to have some unspoiled land in this world. It's a pain to walk, but the price is right.
Apologies. I got off the track. Here in Colorado you almost need two boats since in the spring the rivers are crazy high, but by mid-summer many of the best rivers have all but dried up.
I would like to get my hands on a code. Preferred the older paint job compared to the paintball splatter look though. Makes an expensive boat look kinda cheap imo
My code in cosmo looks nothing like this one they sent wade! the retail version looks sick!
I agree
Yeah the color layups very time to time
Wade. EXCELLECT comparison video. You can see exactly how the boats perform. Had a Burn III and put high hooks in it. It made a huge difference in responsiveness. Wonder if you can put thigh hooks in the Scorch. Keep up the good work.
thanks for watching
You can. I added thigh hooks, it's part of my body now 😁
Can't decide, just gonna have to buy both. Shucks
not a bad Idea
Thanks!! Super helpful. You rock.
Hey glad I could help
Paddled my new Code yesterday on some local Class III. Compared to the Waka OG (which I should not have sold), which feels immediately like a modern planing hull with some displacement hull benefits, the Code felt to me more like a displacement hull that somebody put some edges on. I'll have to try the Code on something faster and steeper, but it did not feel like I was being rocketed into the year 2022, more like I was paddling a Mamba or Nomad or a Liquid Logic boat with a little more rocker, but not quite enough edge to feel like I was paddling a modern planing hull creeker that loves to make hard ferries and catch eddies.
I agree ☝🏻 that the code does have soft edges I paddled the prototype and it’s nothing like the final version I wish dagger would have stayed more aggressive with it did you watch my OG code side by side? Can really see the difference in hull design
ruclips.net/video/LrLdTUogv6g/видео.html
@@WadeHarrison I did watch it but it's hard to tell from the videos. I've had maybe... 7 Dagger boats? And this one really surprised me, I figured they would have somehow done-it-all so to speak. But nope, it's not really a step forward ,maybe a step to the side since nobody wants a Mamba or a Nomad anymore but the Phantom isn't really what it was supposed to be either. Kinda like the 9R2 didn't really end up being an improvement on the 9R and they had to make a whole other boat to make up for it. I'm gonna try out the Scorch and probably the OG again. Half of my issue with the OG was the bulkhead, the fact that nobody at Waka would say anything about the bulkhead (grab loops are fine, IMO), and the fact that it just felt like it was going to break just from looking at it. The Code is comfy but it's a bit of a slug. Still taking it to Mexico with me but I'll be able to paddle the Code, Scorch, and OG all in the same week
@@UrsaMusic How did that back to back comparison work out for you. OG paddler here looking at both/either Code and Scorch as next boat (OG still got some life in it) I done a job on the bulkhead, I bolted 2 1/2" rigid foam (yoga block) to the footrests, it blanks off the front completely. Anyway interested to hear your thoughts
Can I please have the pyranha plastic and shape, AND the Dagger outfitting and color? 😂😂
Thanks, Wade! Cool video.
That would be a interesting mix
Very cool , thanks for this awesome comparison . I had my eye on the Code , but ended up buying a Jackson Z3 a week ago
Nice what you think of the Z3?
@@WadeHarrison
Haven’t had it out yet
@@keystonedaytrip238 ok
@@keystonedaytrip238 2 years later, what do you think of the Z3?
Great video Wade, I bought the scorch L and it seemed very big, then I bought the M and it seemed perfect. But the kayak is so good that it makes class 3 feel very easy, so I sold the pyranha Z.one to buy the Ozone, and I think it is a very good mix, for rivers class 2 and 3 the Ozone, and 4 to 5 the Scorch. I still have a Burn 3 for creek in narrow rivers where I have to maneuver fast in small spaces.
greetings from Chile
Hey Abner I always tell everyone the same thing you motioned the scorch is sized large I also paddled the L and then got in the M and was like oh this is perfect and your right it makes does make rapids easier...
Great job Wade! Like always, great information.
Thanks Sam for watching
8:49 thoes people are like who the hell is he talking to
hahhaha I get that alot?
Another Awesome video! 4 me I’m a Big Dagger fan ❤️ And have to say Code is very hard to find to purchase we’re I saw several Scorch’s 4 sale at NOC today…What does that tell us??? Hey man it was great talking to ya the day u were recording this review! Tnx for what ur doing!
Yeah buddy good seeing you out there
unreal side by side. That must have been a difficult edit session
Not easy but this is a video I wanted to do
Amazing video, It was great to see a side by side.
Please do more of these, very helpful and a great review..
Can you do o e with the Ripper and Rewind ?
I am looking at those 2 but can't decide ????
Hey thanks for watching buddy yeah when I have both boat same time I will do..
And don’t know if you seen it but I have a ripper vs rewind video here’s a link
ruclips.net/video/wUelgzTwFTM/видео.html
Back in the dark ages when I was getting started in kayaking, high volume was what everyone wanted to put women into. Fiberglass was the be all and end all too. Therefore, my first boat ended up being an extremely high volume Phoenix boat. It was like paddling a super tanker, and everyone nick-named it the Nimitz, which was the biggest aircraft carrier of the day. It is so wonderful that these days they have sizes of kayaks. The only thing I'd like to know is if the small (SM) paddles the same as the medium or large. If there's no difference, I think that because of my age and the fact that no matter how much exercise I get, I am slowing down and having a more forgiving boat such as the Code seems to be the choice for me. There was a time when I would have chosen something more edgy and railly such as the scorch, but as my reaction times slow I'm going to have to move to a boat like the code.
I'm really grateful for this review as I am soon going to be needing to get a new boat. Even favourite boats wear out, and mine is getting that way. I keep it inside, but even so, UV rays while you're out on the river will eventually spell death for plastic boats, and that's where I am now. I'm just glad that there has been so much of an advance over the past seven years, such that any boat I choose is going to be an upgrade. It's amazing. I've kept my first boat, the fiberglass Phoenix around, and I take it out now and then to remind me how far we've come in the more than half a century that I've been on the rivers. It's really an eye opener.
Thanks for the review! The side-by-side tells you everything, and it clearly shows the differences, and makes it possible to choose between the two, without being partial to one or the other. It's a fantastic review, and very helpful!
Hey thanks mammaduck I appreciate you watching and commenting
This has been a great video and I’m going to say the code for me if I can find one NOC has nothing but I love the scorch and the way it plays anyway thanks for the video
Thanks for watching
Avid WH fan: Side by side comparison can be confusing (which boat are you commenting on? I need stereo vision and a stereo brain!). I'm no closer to making a decision between Code or Scorch. Scorch is available, Code not avail. in PNW (esp. BC) so tough to compare. I'm currently paddling a Zen 2 M, which is too small for me (I'm a former long distance runner, with too many old injuries, so weight's gone from 172 lbs to 200; 210 with gear on). Like how Z2M is fast and surfs well. I can 'survive' in 4 , but I mainly paddle class 3 (gettin' old). I want/need a bigger boat (but longer???). Once tried a Mamba 2 L. in big water, it felt much more stable/less effected by cross currents than my Z2M (but probably doesn't surf as well). I also once had an Axiom 8.5: best/most enjoyable all round performer I ever had, but too uncomfortable with my old broken hip injury (so I'm also considering a Rewind L. or Antics 2 L. - but probably not so good for very occasional creeking). I have an EZG60 for low water surfing. Suggestions?
Pnw the scorch is the boat
At the beginning of the video (on water part) you said "this one tracks better"- which one are you talking about at that point? Thanks!
Scorch
Love the video mate x
Thanks for watching mate
Luv your series. I'm an intermediate paddler, 66 years old, 5'10"" 195 lbs, been paddling 6 years, the only boat I have had is a Mamba 8.6. Looking to modernize. Comfortable on class III and occasional IV, dont aspire for more, have dialed in my combat roll this year. Have been on the Rogue 5 trips past 3 years and the Mamba is starting to feel a bit large and sluggish but on the Main Salmon, Main Payette/Cabarton it kept me high and dry. Still torn between these two boats. Any suggestions? with thx
Medium scorch would be a great upgrade from the mamba 8.6
@@WadeHarrison Many thx, I appreciate the feedback and advice!!
How would you compare the LL Alpha to both of these boats?
Its closer to the Code then the Scorch I liked the Alpha but both of these excel over the in ever way
@@ADVengerMoto all good feedback Dax I agree the remix is one the best also the Jk Nirvana is amazing big water boat that design is perfect for big water and it’s not real edgy I did like the alpha 75 because i was able to use that tail to my advantage the code floats higher out the water then the alpha be as you said it’s wider it way slower and feels better on steep tight higher volume stuff that’s the differences I noticed between them but also on the the alpha 75 is still a great boat
@@WadeHarrison Thanks for the reply Wade. Yeah maybe the Alpha 75 is morel like a 1/4 slice... so maybe the question is Alpha 75 or Waka Goat...?
@@ADVengerMoto oh the goat is really good boat I would say the alpha is a 1/4 slice I could almost stern turn it
In Colorado dagger customer service sucks balls. Literal quote from dagger dealer "hey Steve do we sell Daggers??" Then "did you buy it here?" Daggers website says contact any dagger dealer.
wow that's not good what dealer do you deal with?
Hey Wade. Nice Video. Which Scorch size would you suggest. I‘m an intermediate paddler, 55 Years old 184 cm and 95 Kilos. I paddled both sizes. I loved the „M“. But it was water class 2-3. What about class 3-4 or 4. will the „M“ je to small for me. Kind regards from Germany.
at 95kilos you on the heavy end of the scorch M so I would suggest the large scorch or scorch X
@@WadeHarrison Hey Wade. Thanks for the quick answer. 👍The Scorch „L“ was in comparison to the „M“ very slow and felt heavy and unwieldy. (Class2-3) Am I to weak? Hope Not.🥲 Something between would be fine. Do you have a Suggestion instead…. or isn‘t there anything. I like sharp rails and flat bootom more than round ones…… or more gym ?
Hey Wade, awesome comparison vid.
Question: How "big" on the water does the code M feel compared to the Scorch M. Is the codes additional volume noticeable? Which feels more nimble?
Cheers 🤙
Neither feel like they are really big on the water but the code feels bigger then the Scorch and as for Nimbleness Scorch all the way buddy
Awesome video Wade, love all your videos! Both of these boats look sweet!
I currently have a wavesport Recon 83, it helped me progress a ton, love the boat and its outfitting, I just want something faster and with a little more edge.
I've been paddling a rewind too and love how fast and precise it feels. I'm 5'10 155ish and paddle mostly class IV with a little class V in the Northern California/PNW area, although some buddies and I drove out to the Gauley last summer! Looking to get into more class V and considering the scorch, code, zet toro, Jackson nirvana and wavesport phoenix. Pretty much narrowed it down to the scorch M and Code M. I'm a little concerned the code M would feel big given I'm on the lower end of the weight range, but I like that it would be better for flare boofs and manky stuff. Thinking the scorch would be fantastic, but there is quite a bit of creeky, low volume Southeast style stuff out here in Northern CA and a little concerned about that sharp edge for that. I'm sure either boat would be amazing, but what would you reccomend?
Thanks!
Hey Javan, yeah, I actually spent some time in Willow Creek area in Humbolt and I would just do laps on Burnt Range gorge of the Trinty almost every day. i love that area and the obsession with bigfoot is hilarious! I agree with you it's more a class 4ish creeky mix then big water there. If I had to suggest a boat for that area, I would go Code all the way, I had a nomad when I was IN Northen CA, and it was perfect for the time! and out of the boats you mentioned the Torro should not be in the mix the Zet Cross or Five should! and the phoenix is a lot better than I thought it would be. so, I would go in this Order This dagger code will for sure be your best bet there and phoenix second and the scorch third unless your going to be on bigger volume rivers and less Mank I would go scorch then phenix and code last The zet five would be a boat I would also suggest going a look? But Answers you question The Dagger Code first and Scorch second from what you told me.
@@WadeHarrison Thanks Wade! I really appreciate your advice, im stoked to get my hands on a code! A bunch of the guys I paddle with have nomads and are really excited about the code aswell.
Thats awesome that you are familiar with the Humboldt/Trinity area! Burnt Ranch is a classic out here, would love to paddle with ya if you’re ever out in CA!
Hay Wade, top video mate, I like the split screen. I'm loving the look of the code. whats your height? I'm 6foot1 185cm tall and i'm looking at the medium. Thanks again Steve
thanks for watching buddy I'm 5'11" 185lb
@@WadeHarrison thanks for the reply, keep up the good work.
Hi Wade, brilliant video! Beginner/intermediate kayaker, thinking of scorch or wavesport diesel as next kayak! If you could recommend one, which? Any help much appreciated, thanks
scorch over the diesel all day
@@WadeHarrison Perfect, scorch it is. Thanks very much for help 😊
Would you recommend one of these boats over the other for a beginner ww paddler?
From what he says, the code is more forgiving and less aggressive. Having paddled neither but just from this video i would say the Code makes a better beginner boat
@@shanemurphy35 has this one right fo sho☝🏼
Code for someone starting out and the Scorch If you have good edging skills and aggressive paddling style but you could use a scorch as fist kayak just need to understand its going to be a harder learning curve
At 13:57 the Scorch seemed much easier to surf. Would you agree Wade?
YES similar to surfing the Ripper the code would fall over side to side
Hey Wade, I really appreciate your videos, they've taught me a ton of things. I just started paddling this past summer and I'm looking to buy my first boat but there are a ton of great options (when things are in stock). I got bit by the bug and I'm wanting to learn as much as possible. Do you recommend just getting a boat so it's easier for me to get on the river more? I’m leaning towards the code right now, so I’m just wondering if I should pull the trigger or if there is something else I should consider. Or do you have any recommendations? Thanks again
If you had some options I could help you more but I recommend starting with softer edge river running creek type like the code or zen3 you could look at the machno and nomad and there is 100s older used boats out there that are good choices but if new my top three to recommend Is code zen3 machno
@@WadeHarrison yeah, I was leaning toward some newer designs for sure and not even a couple hours before you replied, I bought the code. Stoked for it to come in and take it out. Hopefully we keep getting some rain around here to bring the levels up, we’ve been in such a drought
@@andrewdahl6521 nice glad I could help buddy
Does the code handle similar to the machno? The volume in the stern looks very similar to the machno
no they are very different
Which boat do you recommend? It will be my first boat. code, scorch or gnarvana?? thanks
depending on where you will be paddling
@@WadeHarrison im beginner, it would be my firts kayak.
@@gabo5020 so where do you paddle? That would help to answer your question
Hey wade how’s the knee position compare with the two
Both fit very well the scorch has more very knee positions and The code feels little more spread
@@WadeHarrison so would you say the code is low like Jackson or just wider ?
@@northernryan2190 no not even close I hate the way the Jackson’s push knees down just compared to the scorch it’s little more spread but very comfortable
@@WadeHarrison me too good boats but the knee position is almost crippling for me . Very cool I’d definitely like to try one out now . Thanks!
The code is not 22 it is 25 Kilo this is more then 3 Kilo more 10% is 2 Kilo. As a costumer i would not buy it, dont like to be cheated
Not sure what your talking about but the specs I posted are directly from the manufacturer website link below 👇
www.dagger.com/us/kayaks/code-md
@@WadeHarrison Somebody made a video where he put his kayak on a scale but maybe his scale isent accurate, did not check by myself
@@ralfbender1728 yeah there’s alot that can go into that
Things like was that boat he had laid up in production right did he have something in it to add weight this one I have got is pretty spot on
the weights are the manufacturer base weights and that’s what I go on unless the boat feels drastically off I will not weigh it but thanks for the feedback Ralf
What river is this?
The Ocoee Olympic course in TN
Yeah youre lucky. Both of them are still kinda unavialble in europe.
Yeah they are hard to get here also I just have friends in low places
@@WadeHarrison yeah, how are you with that exo rexy one? Do you have any friend who has one to try in the us?
Dagger already has oil canning. 😒
It popped out it was on my racks for 2 days I just took it off