It's because swapping race and genders of existing characters is much easier than making original unique or utilising obscure characters and making them interesting
Reason people don't create new characters for existing IPs anymore is because of the same thing that happened to Alan Moore regarding Watchmen: The IP owner officially owns these new characters, therefore the original creators aren't paid royalties. It's pretty much not worth it for the individual creator. Unless you work at places like Image Comics which are more creator friendly, but they don't really do superheroes anymore, barring Todd MacFarlane's Spawn.
When I see a show race swap a character to be black, it makes me as a black man feel as if i don't deserve to have have original characters made for me. instead they just take an established character, make them black, and tell me to be happy that i'm represented. But i'm not happy, i and many other minorites deserve better than this.
Yep, there are plenty of actually black, great characters in the DC comics to pick from if the story requires such representation. But that is exactly what these people do not want. They want to take existing iconic characters and tear them down as part of their ideology of "cultural revolution" they've been brainwashed with. And their tools for that are gender swaps, race swaps, and often the erosion of morality of these characters as well.
6:52 I don't want to sound rude, but, Bruce Timm did not make Harley Quinn. Paul Dini did. He based her off his friend Arleen Sorkin, may she rest in peace, the only thing Bruce Timm had to do with the creation of Harley quinn, was her character design, the drawing, the jester outfit.
As a Black Person I SOOOOO agree with you on the race swapping! Here's the thing, I enjoy diversity in my media...but NOT at the expense of changing preestablished characters to a different race. If anything I find it VERY preachy, pompous, and just overall annoying in regards to the double standard. I bet if they race swapped a preestablished BLACK character, bruh people will have a damn COW; but hey it's okay to swap white people into ANYTHING they want because "diversity". Seriously if you want Diversity, MAKE ORIGINAL CHARACTERS! You don't need to make the dumb race swaps. For ex: Miles Morales aka Spiderman John Stewart aka Green Lantern Nick Furry (Black and white from different universes)
100% Those work because they're a SEPERATE character. If they showed Miles and said that was Peter Parker it wouldn't work because thats NOT Peter It also goes both ways. If they made Miles white or any other race it wouldn't work because that wouldn't be Miles then.
Rather than gender swapping The Penguin, Bruce Timm should have just rewatched the 1960s Batman TV series and modernized or reinvented one of their many villainesses.
I feel like the race and gender swaps are just a cheap way for studios to say ‘we gave this minority group representation’. I’m Indian and a girl, and I’ve talked to death with my friends about how media needs more representation, but this is not how you do it. Either use characters that are already the minority you want to represent, or make new characters that are part of that minority. Heck, just make a new story! There are so many adaptations and sequels flooding the entertainment industry, it’s getting hard to find original stories that I haven’t already seen. Or, if you really want to adapt something, adapt a story that has the representation you want. It’s not that hard.
Thanks to people like Dini, Alan Burnet, and Dwayne McDuffie over Timm. Timm mostly contributed the amazing art style. On his own he makes things like the Killing Joke adaptation.
The fact that Hazbin Hotel managed to have an almost all LGBT cast and never having that aspect be the focus of the plots or discourse speaks volumes to how diversity =/= wokeness.
Hazbin just has it's own writing issues with pacing and development, but it's still interesting enough to want to watch more. Obviously the series itself is not for everyone as it very heavily feels like an early 2000s Newgrounds Hot Topic series.
Hot take, but I actually hated what they did with Two-Face. First, I just don't like that they had Harvey be a prick when, like you mentioned, he's generally supposed to be a good guy before becoming Two-Face. The way they made him act just felt so ahole-like and didn't let me get attached to him, which then in turn made his death worthless in my eyes. Secondly, I don't like that they never had him flip his coin. Heck, he barely got his coin at all. I just feel like that's such a disrespect to the character given that the fact that he follows the coin toss is like his biggest thing.
@@punkdoggo211 idk, it is a different take but it ended up working for me. I think he was a jerk at first but he wasn't past redemption. When he tries to do the right thing, then gets scared, and then seeing his downward spiral made me feel bad for him. I will agree he should've used his coin more.
Worst about thing about this Harley Quinn is not so much her being Asian but fact she is being portrayed more like the Joker or Riddler. Reason why everybody hates Jokers relationship with Harley, is due to him psychological and phyiscally abusing her but some reason she is doing actually the same thing with men!
If they wanted a female version of a popular Batman villain they could have used Lady Clayface and give her some recognition. If they wanted a black commissioner they could have easily use Michael Akins.
This show, to me, is proof that without Paul Dini, Bruce Timm is not as much of a godsend as everyone claimed him to be. And replacing him with Matt Reeves was the death knell for the series in my eyes. I went in hopeful but...I very much disliked it by the time it was finished. Style was incompatible with faux substance, and the only risks it ended up taking were the lazy ones you discuss in the first half of the video.
Batman the animated series did to mr freeze what harley quinn did for kiteman tweak the character to make them more sympathetic/loveable. This show just wants to race swap and make unwanted tweaks to beloved characters
Personally I think that they should have just done the character but giving them different names and different backstories if they were taking place in a different universe will the penguin could still be female but it's not the same penguin from the main DC universe
I heard that the producers asked the caped crusader gang to change up penguin because they were going to release a Penguin HBO series. Warner Bros doesn't like more than 1 iteration of a character at a time. I.E. Gotham using Bruce Wayne and a Proto-joker and having them turn into their ultimate forms without ever calling a bat a bat or a clown a clown. It was weird.
You can fix Penguin. Penguin wasn't always portrayed as ugly, she can have a not deformed body, sometimes penguin was just an average overweight dude with a big nose so I have no complaints about the design... Maybe she can be shorter. Also his (male penguin) henchmen were all beautiful women, would've loved to see all muscular guys as her (female penguin) henchmen, or a mix of both. Waiters and waitressess that worked in the ice cube (iceberg or whatever the club name is) with a second job as mobsters. Yes she had one muscular guy helping her but they need to be at list 4.... just don't make all of them black guys or is gonna remind people of that sofa meme.
If they HAD to make a Batman show that pointlessly change the race of some of the characters, why not make Batman black? His whole thing is blending into the shadows of the night as he stalks the streets of Gotham He is literally called The Dark Knight They knew they were gonna piss people of with a female Penguin, so why not go big & seize the opportunity that's been staring us in the face for 85 years?
My other biggest problem with the show (despite mostly liking it) is the fact it had J J Abrams as one of the producers. The man puts in the minimal amount of work and biggest amount of disrespect to everything he works on. They include Star Trek, the Star Wars sequel trilogy, and now Batman. I do hope Caped Crusader does not become bad in the long run because of people like him
I love Batman TAS from the 90s and have the entire series on DVD. I binged watched the newer series all 10 episodes and I don't hate it nor like it, some things could be done better of course but if there is a season 2, I will consider watching it but just hope they do some better episodes and stories. I will give it a chance still. I have to say which I do and don't like are as follows: DO LIKE 1: J Gordon and the voice actor, I don't even mind the race swap 2: Atmosphere and the setting of 1930s noir and opening title of series 3: I like the new design of Clayface and background and voice actor did great 4: I like the new look of Alfred and voice actor 5: Episodes of Gentleman ghost, the circus one are really good and best ones so far 6: Female Penguin, like how she can be ruthless and successful and voice actress does a great job in role 7: The way batman hides in shadows to take down criminals 8: I don't mind Batman using a gun in final episode as I would prefer if he did at times but like the no killing rule too 9: The music is well done DON'T LIKE: 1: Barbara is now too old and can't become batgirl, don't like her as a lawyer 2: Don't like they made Barbara and Montoya the focus of the series as Batman is background in own show 3: It is a bit boring most times, cliched, stories that has been done already especially the death of the Waynes 4: Harley Quinn in jester outfit is pointless, they should just keep her as psychiatrist like original Leslie Thompkins 5: There aren't villains like Red Claw, Poison Ivy and other females they could use instead and done great stories 6: I would rather see a new take on Bruce Wayne or another character as Batman like Jean Paul Valley or someone
as someone who hasn't seen the show (I will now) coming from this video, I believe the show isn't bad, but definitely half-baked. I might come back to this comment after watching the full show
I think people over exaggerate with Penguin in Caped Crusader, now it’s not to say that Bruce Timm hadn’t chosen his words wrong, as there are plenty of female Batman villains. But to be fair there is no definitive Penguin, he’s always changed throughout every appearance, so having a female Penguin isn’t really breaking new ground but rather a new spin. Also I do like the fact that she’s tall reminds me of an Emperor Penguin. Here’s hoping that Caped Crusader will bring in more obscure villains I really love Onomatopoeia
I think the show should just be interpreted as its own take on Batman. There are 9 different batman animated series, each one having its own spin on the caped crusader. We see this happen in live action movies, live action tv shows, and animated movies for Superman, Spiderman, the X-Men and the Avengers. Batman is no exception to having several different takes on the original comic books. I'm a big fan of Caped Crusader as it feels like a mixture between a throwback to the 90s, a comic accurate version of the 40s, and a new spin on many of the characters. It may not be for everyone, but it certainly has its target audience.
I feel like if there was a show about Batwings and the Blackbat everyone would be thinking, "Where's Batman and Batgirl?", or "Where's Bruce and Barbara?".
I feel like race/gender/orientation swapping of established characters is just a cheap, cost-effective marketing ploy. Sure, you could spend time and money to make a brand-new character, but why do that when you could instead farm clicks from both the left and the right by taking an established white character, making them black, gay and the opposite gender and watch as the left applauds you for being stunning and brave and the right heckles you for being woke and lazy, which brings lots of attention to your show. Long-established characters also sell better of course.
I don't think showing diversity is by itself a bad thing. I just hate it when it's at the expense of established characters or if it's the number one selling point of the creators on a project.
@@michaelthecinebro Yep 100% Agree withyou. yeah diversity is not bad if you have a purpose to it. For me I wouldn't mind to see something similar to the Batman the animated series but it's set in Africa like a African version of Batman or a Japanese version of Batman all my favourite idea British version of Batman, I imagine in the British Batman, Batman and villains were spend 90% of the time just taken the piss out one another in the most British banter away possible and with the Joker that bump up to 95% of the time and arrest well by fighting. In the British version I imagine for fighting style on Batman it's gonna be similar to bear knuckle boxing fighting style.
Uh no.........this is just wrong.......like the point is we want to get to where diversity is just apart of media we consume......and theres no reason behind it beside "that's just how it is"
This show isn’t terrible but I feel that using the golden age look was false advertising. I’m a fan of the earth 2 version of Batman and they didn’t go far enough in making this an inspiration of those old comics, like a unique vintage art style or truly feeling like an old area of the Batman lore. Aside from epi 8 this is the most bland milk toast Batman show. Also, what was even the point in the semi golden age esthetic? It could’ve easily been set in modern times, and it kinda was. Beware the Batman was more interesting & memorable than this imo. You kinda give Bruce timm too much credit, ppl like Paul Dini, alan burnett, Dwayne mcduffie, darwyn cooke, all the rest made btas & the dcau in general the classic that it is. Btw, I’m glad you brought up that you agree with what both sides say on stuff in media now.
I just have to say on Onomatopoeia is that even if he is intimidating in the show, he's so neutered from his first comic appearance. When I heard he was gonna be in the show, I got excited, but I just ended up being disappointed.
My exact take on this, I liked the show, it have flaws, very NOTICEABLE ones, the changes to some characters are dumb and don't improve on any of them, but what the show have that is fresh and new, they actually nailed, I liked the look, Batman, the corruption display in Gotham, the new villains or obscure ones that never got their chance until now like Onomatopoeia, I liked the new take on Clayface and Two Face, Selina Kyle in her classic costume was fun, Alfred is as always THE GOAT, and I'm intrigue for a season 2........but what didn't work was the dumb politically modern corrections NO ONE ASK FOR, first that comment on Bruce Timm, man the guy have disconnect from planet earth saying that dumb bs, all because he was cancelled for drawing sexy pin ups, and instead of stand up and ignored the mob, the surrender and joined it seems, sad to see, I loved Timm work, is a huge inspiration for my own, is just sad someone like him changed like this....... the race swap I can live with it, as long they capture the spirit of the character, Commissioner Gordon was fine, not better than before but I liked him here, Barbs was..........a MIX, I like some of the direction, she been a lawyer is interesting, I think her design was not bad after all, but man she loss so MUCH personality and likability in this, she can be at least improve in a season 2, so finger cross she become a bit more like Old Barbara.....................the Penguin and Harley, yeah hard NO, and a big miss opportunity, so many other villains could have been use here, obscure ones or just some that for some reason haven't been use in animated form.....Harley is so different from her original that I was expected this to not be Harleen Quinzel, just a different woman using the alias of HARLEY QUINN, but no it was supposed to be Harleen and nope it flat out missed the point.....and Penguin is a complete misfire, just deleted this character I not want to see this version ever again....also I like the story but it lack a powerful antagonist, I assume Harvey was going to be that, but in the end......THORNE, FLASS and the one that almost infuriate me....BULLOCK are the main villains? I love they show how corrupt Gotham is, but in the end I didn't want that to be the main opposition to Batman is just too boring, and also ruined Bullock for me, yes is always have been a crooked cop, but he always have been conflicted and have a moral at the end and became an ally to Batman and Gordon.....he still could be redeem but I kinda doubt it. Overall I give this show a weak 8 out of 10, almost a 7.....it have potential, but they need to stop doing these changes, introduce new characters, not change the ones people LOVE already, improve on villains people see as a JOKE, do what you guys did with MR.FREEZE, he was a joke before until TAS happen, take small villains like he was and make them BIG......I will love they use Cluemaster just to get to a proper STEPHANIE BROWN introduction.....hell same with Lady Shiva and Cain so we can have Cassandra Cain.....add more, stop changed what doesn´t need change.
No offence to black people, but also there were no black cops during the '40s, not to mention a black comissioner. The same for lesbians kissing in public. If the show was set in modern time, I'd be fine with that, but it is not.
Race swapping is only ok when done solely for the actor and not for diversity points. A good example of this is Nick Fury in the MCU. Samuel L. Jackson played it so well, that the character is him at this point. No one cares that they changed the race because it was played well and done well, and also the race was never mentioned so it doesn’t have any effect. I’m fine with LGBT representation, but only when it’s done with respect. Lately, I’ve pretty much only seen LGBT characters be just that. Their sexuality, gender, etc is their entire personality. My point is, if the one of the only things you can remember about a character is their race, gender, sexuality, etc, you have not written a character, you’ve written a self-insert. This is not good storytelling or good character writing. If you want a great example of LGBT done right, watch Nimona. The two main characters are gay and gender-fluid respectively and no one cares because that’s not their entire personality, only a small aspect that has no overall bearing on the quality of the character. (Also what they did with Harley in this show is unforgivable. They ruined her entire character development, character identity, and other things. It can work, but they did it horribly.)
Bruce Timm isn't a writer though. He's an artist. Paul Dini was the writer for the animated series. And he wrote the first two Arkham games as well. He's the one who understands Batman.
The Harley Quinn story would have been serviced a lot better as a Hugo Strange story, and I feel as though if you wanted to gender swap Hugo Strange, it would feel rather pointless, but at least it wouldn't run antithetical to their to character like it is for the Penguin. Cobblepot is genuinely one of my favorites in the rogue's gallery, and they have completely missed everything interesting in his character within this tale. Now the character just feels like a less interesting rip off of Big Mom from One Piece, and what's even more heartbreaking is Tom Kenny is in the show and he has one of my favorite voices for the penguin. Other than these issues I don't really mind anything else. Everything else was either serviceable or pretty good.
I think the Penguin gender swap *could* have worked when you look at how the pressure women have to be conventionally attractive and conform to ever-changing beauty standards. It could have been utilized to make the Penguin even more bullied and bitter
I think it's always funny when talking about female characters in batman's mythos half of the ones usually named are ones made by bruce timm and friends lol. there are so manny comics with so many different interpretations why are we still having a "accurate to the source material argument." Hell barbara isn't even the original batgirl, there a few before her. And she was created specifically for representation purposes. In the early comics at the time the animated series was a huge departure from her but we didn't care. Cause this obsession on "wokeness" just didn't exist. If you like heath leagers joker, or really any of the dark knights characters guess what they are nothing like the comics or even animated interpretations. We like heath because he played a good character not an accurate joker. Same for the movie joker and so many others. The problem with the argument "she's not like X version" is that it's never applied equally. Who cares if the penguins a woman when he's getting a show, is part a man in almost every other continuity. Same with Harley, who also has a show, and a new movie coming out. The arguments in this video are just kinda weak if you've been enjoying these characters for years now.
i think gender swap / race swap or any other changes is not the issue until 1. they give these characters something the source material doesn't give them. for example making them nag about she hulk's anger management compare to hulk. 2. they make them gay
Personally I just don’t see much of a point in keeping that stuff if isn’t integral to their character. I don’t see why we can’t have both of what you said and what’s been done? I guess I don’t get what’s so offensive. Different takes are just different takes, they don’t erase what came before. I don’t mean to come off as hostile, I just mean to ask a question. Why is it that big of a deal? Do things really have to be so rigid in structure that we can’t explore other avenues? Getting hung up on issues like these are just draining (as someone who used to get absolutely outraged by this back then on my end) is We can’t have one Penguin or Harley that’s not like the sea of similar (but different) iterations?
@@Hamantha good question! I genuinely think that representing races and cultures matter in entertainment. So if theres a character, lets say Storm from X-Men, was now a blonde white man and the people behind this desion said "it's just an interpritation, get over it." I would totally understand if people were bothered with it. Thats not Storm. Storm is a black woman. Is her cultural background really brought up that much? No? Well lets try and show that off more. Same goes for white characters. That's not to say you can't radically change some characters but I think some good rules to follow are these: Is there an in universe explanation for the change? And how does it benifit the story? If those can't be answered, it shouldn't be changed.
@@michaelthecinebro I did indirectly say race didn’t matter. I’ll completely accept that, and further say that that wasn’t what I meant. Race absolutely does matter like you’ve said I agree with the criteria you’ve set out for the most part, I just feel like there should be more leniency within reason. For me the reason why I think it’s better to change a white character is just simply down to this, and there’s no better way to say it: there are JUST more white characters than black. Yes it should be okay across the board to change a character’s race and gender as well as it’s done in the right way and respectfully, but it comes down to if someone should rather than could. Why would take from someone’s plate if you already have a ton on your own or someone else’s does? Not the perfect analogy in this state but my point still stands. Thank you for engaging with me and showing me the many faults in my previous statement, I didn’t mean what I ended up implying
@@michaelthecinebro as for what they did with the Penguin specifically, I think they made the change better than anyone will give it as if right now. It’s more than a mere cosmetic change, it’s a full new take based around the changes and use them well for reasons probably better saved for another day. Lastly, I don’t think there really needs to be an in universe reason for a race or gender change, no one is really black or male for a reason after all, they just are. Something I learned as someone who used to think that way is that I unintentionally believed and said white was the “default” (this is also excluding characters who are very much tied to and speak about their race as characters ofc)
Batman TAS was leagues better in writing, acting, storytelling, and animation. That show always makes me think and feel emotions. This new show is just cheap and trying to stay on trend. And that level of diversity is so absurd for the 1940's, not to mention the cringey hipster dialogue.
I don’t really mind race swapping so long as it doesn’t hurt the pre established character or come off as pandering. I thought Jeffrey Wright was great as Gordon in The Batman. He had the right mannerisms and demeanor for the character, he just happened to be black. But with shows like this and Velma, it just feels unnecessary and forced.
You would think Warner Brothers would learn from Mrs. Freeze but nope they don't. Disney and Warner Brothers will never learn their lesson that's why they continue to flop.
Going back with the race swapping, didn’t this happen with Harvey Dent in the Tim Burton Batman movie? And if this did happen, why was Billy Dee Williams not criticized for it, or the creative team for the 1989 Batman movie?
Because that was supposed to be a retrofuturistic gothic tale set in a world lost to time. This is not. This is supposed to be the actual 1940s, just with a masked vigilante in a big city. That was, at least, the original concept of the show.
Something I have learned is that people honestly don't care about change unless it is bad. When they changed nick fury no one really gave/gives a shit. The entire spiderverse is just a collection of spinnoffs to the regular spiderman. Changing April in the New TMNT movie. These characters all ended up being great so no one cared. It's every you change a character for the worse that people get upset
to be fair…if Lady Shiva was in caped crusader, this batman getting wiped off the map, honestly though the show had a weak start but i’m glad i stayed for the ride because i enjoyed eps 4 and up. Two face especially subverted my expectations with how it switches up the motivation for the acid splash and how ep 10 does something completely different with him (still dumb that he went to the bathroom though) I definitely think the show is flawed but i think a season 2 that fixes upon it could make this a classic
You had me until the last 15 seconds there. I disagree with your last statement and therefore you are wrong and I am right over a slight (7 seconds or so) difference in opinion.
for me its a 6.5/10 ( like most people do 7 is not "MID" for me instead like it would make sense a 5 is it for me) its enjoyable enough that i watched it with interest threw and would watch s2
I haven’t watched the video yet, but my biggest hypothesis for all the gender/race swaps is that the show is otherwise too damn similar to Batman TAS, and they wanted to make it distinctive enough from that show. Should have just gone with a different story altogether.
I didn't agree with all your points. But I thought you had some good ones. It feels unfair to ignore actual characters of color in order to use more popular names. Which is not to say the race or gender swapping is always bad. However, these days I feel like if you're making something big and official, have a reason. It's not true diversity if you are swapping a race, but then not considering the cultural background that entails. Race and gender swaps could really add to a character in some ways. Asian Lois means she can better understand Superman's immigrant identity. Black J'onn J'onzz provides an interesting persepective of not being human-passing or white-passing like Superman is. I guess my point is to have a point?
You can do diversity well, but by large it isn't. I think creating a new character is better than changing an old one. You also still have to have basic storytelling skills, though. Which seems to be what's lacking in media.
watched Batman Caped Crusader and after three episodes I just wasn't interested. I watched BTAS afterwards for the first time and it blew my mind. The episode Mad love was so emotional tbh
This show’s new take on Harley Quinn, IMHO, felt genuinely Hannibal Lecter-level _creepy_ in her featured episode, which I did find cool (😎). I also like how this version of Harleen Quinzel has established herself as Harley completely all on her own. I for one _do_ appreciate that in giving the character more agency because let’s face it, as _truly_ enduring and timeless as she is (with nothing about her that really needs “fixing”), OG Harley’s whole story is that of a poor girl trapped in an *abusive* relationship, who was psychologically manipulated into it, and has fallen in love with the _IDEA_ of the Joker (🃏) who completely failing to see him for who he _really_ is.
ngl i think with harvey they tried but failed i saw it as that they just back and forthed between the 2 ideas what they wanted todo with harvey but overhaul jes enjoyable and i liked the back and forth in the last episodes between his 2 personas
I dont really care about the genderswapping and race changing. Its not even a new thing for the movies. the 1988 movie made Harvey Dent black, Lego Batman Movie made Jim and Barbara Gordon of Hispanic decent, and Jim Gordon was black in the Batman and literally nobody GAF so whats the big deal if its done more frequently in newer Batman shows and or movies? lThe only complaint I have is that the Penguin doesn't have either a New York nor a cockney British accent. They gave them a generic white woman voice and it never not feels weird.
@@ChurchoftheLatterDayShrek race swapping I don't mind for certain characters. Like Catwoman, who has been portrayed as black multiple times. Though there are exceptions I don't like the frequency of it with so many characters over the years and how it seems to be only applied for traditional white characters.
I'm MAGA so hate the stupidity of woke. I really liked this version of Batman, it's a cartoon, a made-up universe where the characters can be anything the writer wants. What matters is whether you enjoy the show. I did. Better than ST Discovery, that is genuinely awful. Cool car.
Gordon being black in this series is nothing new. Lando played him in live action decades ago. Personally, I like that they set out to do something different with the characters. Give it the Spiderverse lens. We know it's not the definitive versions of the characters, so they like to do interesting twists with it. Femguin was actually pretty scary, being so heartless as to kill her own son. Harley Quinn, much less whimsical as before but they decided to focus on the fact that she is a psychiatrist and dial it up to 11. Something almost every other incarnation of Harley tends to abandon or forget about. Clayface was an interesting change of pace and toning down his powers made him feel more real. Cat Woman was fun. She really was an irresponsible klepto who donned a mask because she loves stealing and wanted to get dicked by a vigilante. The embodiment of chaotic neutral. Two-Face/Dent was an 11/10 characterization. I loved the corrupt cop characters. Gentleman Ghost was hilariously petty. Onomatopoeia I have to admit was the only real miss for me. Could replace him with any generic grunt and nothing would change beyond the lack of sound effects.
The onlybreason i let the penguin thing kinda slide is her relation with her kids. This wouldn't have hited as hard if she was a man but at the same time,they could've done something else,respecting what came before
I think you forget that this isn't an adaptation of any comic. The characters looking different shouldn't be surprising cause it's supposed to be a new universe. They don't have to be a copypaste from the comics. People get mad about them having their gender or race changed but Barbara is a lawyer now and Harley isn't jokers pet anymore and that's not making people mad for some reason? I honestly don't care in this situation cause it doesn't take place in an already established universe. This isn't the live action little mermaid (an actual adaptation) where it's supposed to be the original story but real. There you can argue that it's for the sake of pandering. But here it's a non issue to me.
People were excited for this show because it looked like it was gonna be a noir detective Batman show from the 40s Bill Finger Batman era. Nobody wanted to see Bruce Timm’s Penguin fanfiction and lesbo fanfiction.
It's because swapping race and genders of existing characters is much easier than making original unique or utilising obscure characters and making them interesting
Yeah, it's unfortunate but true 😕
Reason people don't create new characters for existing IPs anymore is because of the same thing that happened to Alan Moore regarding Watchmen: The IP owner officially owns these new characters, therefore the original creators aren't paid royalties. It's pretty much not worth it for the individual creator. Unless you work at places like Image Comics which are more creator friendly, but they don't really do superheroes anymore, barring Todd MacFarlane's Spawn.
@@WolfJarl interesting! i never knew that, not that i am particularly well versed with comics
When I see a show race swap a character to be black, it makes me as a black man feel as if i don't deserve to have have original characters made for me. instead they just take an established character, make them black, and tell me to be happy that i'm represented. But i'm not happy, i and many other minorites deserve better than this.
Well said.
Yep, there are plenty of actually black, great characters in the DC comics to pick from if the story requires such representation. But that is exactly what these people do not want. They want to take existing iconic characters and tear them down as part of their ideology of "cultural revolution" they've been brainwashed with. And their tools for that are gender swaps, race swaps, and often the erosion of morality of these characters as well.
Thank u
@@ebenezerboateng5915 Absolutely agree. It's so embarassing on their part.
6:52 I don't want to sound rude, but, Bruce Timm did not make Harley Quinn. Paul Dini did. He based her off his friend Arleen Sorkin, may she rest in peace, the only thing Bruce Timm had to do with the creation of Harley quinn, was her character design, the drawing, the jester outfit.
that would make them both Co-Creators.
@@Guy.mp4. maybe 🤷♂️
Underrated characters like Orca, Killer Moth, The Terrible Trio, and Great White Shark can be used for it, man a miss opportunity
I've always loved the idea of Killer Moth
Dude, the Terrible Trio would have been PERFECT for this Batman.
Killer Moth has to be in a serious story than Teen Titans Go!
or firefly, calender man, pyg, nightwings villains batman has the largest rouges gallery
As a Black Person I SOOOOO agree with you on the race swapping! Here's the thing, I enjoy diversity in my media...but NOT at the expense of changing preestablished characters to a different race. If anything I find it VERY preachy, pompous, and just overall annoying in regards to the double standard. I bet if they race swapped a preestablished BLACK character, bruh people will have a damn COW; but hey it's okay to swap white people into ANYTHING they want because "diversity".
Seriously if you want Diversity, MAKE ORIGINAL CHARACTERS! You don't need to make the dumb race swaps. For ex:
Miles Morales aka Spiderman
John Stewart aka Green Lantern
Nick Furry (Black and white from different universes)
100% Those work because they're a SEPERATE character. If they showed Miles and said that was Peter Parker it wouldn't work because thats NOT Peter
It also goes both ways. If they made Miles white or any other race it wouldn't work because that wouldn't be Miles then.
At some point it was established that black Nick Fury was Nick Fury Jr and the son of Nick Fury. I think that's pretty cool
Rather than gender swapping The Penguin,
Bruce Timm should have just rewatched
the 1960s Batman TV series and modernized
or reinvented one of their many villainesses.
@@chazarcola7639 Oh that would've been intresting.
I feel like the race and gender swaps are just a cheap way for studios to say ‘we gave this minority group representation’. I’m Indian and a girl, and I’ve talked to death with my friends about how media needs more representation, but this is not how you do it. Either use characters that are already the minority you want to represent, or make new characters that are part of that minority. Heck, just make a new story! There are so many adaptations and sequels flooding the entertainment industry, it’s getting hard to find original stories that I haven’t already seen. Or, if you really want to adapt something, adapt a story that has the representation you want. It’s not that hard.
Animated Series was vastly successful thanks to Paul Dini... Timm mostly hogged the spotlight.
Very true.
Thanks to people like Dini, Alan Burnet, and Dwayne McDuffie over Timm. Timm mostly contributed the amazing art style. On his own he makes things like the Killing Joke adaptation.
The fact that Hazbin Hotel managed to have an almost all LGBT cast and never having that aspect be the focus of the plots or discourse speaks volumes to how diversity =/= wokeness.
EXACTLY! I loved Hazbin and it works so well because the characters aren't only who they sleep with.
@@michaelthecinebroMy man was cooking until he mentioned Hazbin 😭
That show ain’t no better
Hazbin just has it's own writing issues with pacing and development, but it's still interesting enough to want to watch more. Obviously the series itself is not for everyone as it very heavily feels like an early 2000s Newgrounds Hot Topic series.
@@XC11301991 don’t forget not understanding concepts poor characters the list goes on
Hot take, but I actually hated what they did with Two-Face.
First, I just don't like that they had Harvey be a prick when, like you mentioned, he's generally supposed to be a good guy before becoming Two-Face. The way they made him act just felt so ahole-like and didn't let me get attached to him, which then in turn made his death worthless in my eyes.
Secondly, I don't like that they never had him flip his coin. Heck, he barely got his coin at all. I just feel like that's such a disrespect to the character given that the fact that he follows the coin toss is like his biggest thing.
You're just right, sir.
@@punkdoggo211 idk, it is a different take but it ended up working for me. I think he was a jerk at first but he wasn't past redemption. When he tries to do the right thing, then gets scared, and then seeing his downward spiral made me feel bad for him.
I will agree he should've used his coin more.
The Brave and The Bold had more accuracy of the golden era.
Worst about thing about this Harley Quinn is not so much her being Asian but fact she is being portrayed more like the Joker or Riddler. Reason why everybody hates Jokers relationship with Harley, is due to him psychological and phyiscally abusing her but some reason she is doing actually the same thing with men!
If they wanted a female version of a popular Batman villain they could have used Lady Clayface and give her some recognition. If they wanted a black commissioner they could have easily use Michael Akins.
@@Bardia006plus1 Michael Akins would've been great! Same with Lady Clayface.
This show, to me, is proof that without Paul Dini, Bruce Timm is not as much of a godsend as everyone claimed him to be. And replacing him with Matt Reeves was the death knell for the series in my eyes. I went in hopeful but...I very much disliked it by the time it was finished. Style was incompatible with faux substance, and the only risks it ended up taking were the lazy ones you discuss in the first half of the video.
@@tuvyamaeir4684 I totally get this take. I agree that Bruce Timm is very weak without Paul working with him.
Batman the animated series did to mr freeze what harley quinn did for kiteman tweak the character to make them more sympathetic/loveable. This show just wants to race swap and make unwanted tweaks to beloved characters
Awe... I love Kite Man 🤣
I will not forgive this show for making Batman use a gun...
"This is the weapon of my enemy. We do not need it. We will *not* use it."
You never read the old comics
Personally I think that they should have just done the character but giving them different names and different backstories if they were taking place in a different universe will the penguin could still be female but it's not the same penguin from the main DC universe
Exactly. Just make a new character at that point.
I actually really enjoyed this series. I gave it a solid B+. I hear what you are saying, but these things didn't bother me as much.
Gender swap penguin could’ve been his sister and just call her the puffin. Also Harley is just Hugo strange who is Asian and a lesbian
@@WeebGuru6I never thought of that! She literally is Hugo Strange! wtf??? 😂
@@michaelthecinebro yea that’s why I don’t believe this harley
Harley has been bisexual for years , and she is married to Poison Ivy.
@@brenandemossita1000 and Talia raped Bruce for past couple of years what’s ur point
@@brenandemossita1000 ok and Talia raped Bruce what’s ur point just cuz it’s in the comic doesn’t mean I gotta like it
When kite man is a better and imaginative show than this you know they have a problem here
I heard that the producers asked the caped crusader gang to change up penguin because they were going to release a Penguin HBO series. Warner Bros doesn't like more than 1 iteration of a character at a time. I.E. Gotham using Bruce Wayne and a Proto-joker and having them turn into their ultimate forms without ever calling a bat a bat or a clown a clown. It was weird.
You can fix Penguin.
Penguin wasn't always portrayed as ugly, she can have a not deformed body, sometimes penguin was just an average overweight dude with a big nose so I have no complaints about the design... Maybe she can be shorter.
Also his (male penguin) henchmen were all beautiful women, would've loved to see all muscular guys as her (female penguin) henchmen, or a mix of both. Waiters and waitressess that worked in the ice cube (iceberg or whatever the club name is) with a second job as mobsters. Yes she had one muscular guy helping her but they need to be at list 4.... just don't make all of them black guys or is gonna remind people of that sofa meme.
If they HAD to make a Batman show that pointlessly change the race of some of the characters, why not make Batman black?
His whole thing is blending into the shadows of the night as he stalks the streets of Gotham
He is literally called The Dark Knight
They knew they were gonna piss people of with a female Penguin, so why not go big & seize the opportunity that's been staring us in the face for 85 years?
My other biggest problem with the show (despite mostly liking it) is the fact it had J J Abrams as one of the producers. The man puts in the minimal amount of work and biggest amount of disrespect to everything he works on. They include Star Trek, the Star Wars sequel trilogy, and now Batman. I do hope Caped Crusader does not become bad in the long run because of people like him
Hopefully they learn their lesson from this season.
Side note: Htf is JJ still getting work?? 😂
I love Batman TAS from the 90s and have the entire series on DVD. I binged watched the newer series all 10 episodes and I don't hate it nor like it, some things could be done better of course but if there is a season 2, I will consider watching it but just hope they do some better episodes and stories. I will give it a chance still. I have to say which I do and don't like are as follows:
DO LIKE
1: J Gordon and the voice actor, I don't even mind the race swap
2: Atmosphere and the setting of 1930s noir and opening title of series
3: I like the new design of Clayface and background and voice actor did great
4: I like the new look of Alfred and voice actor
5: Episodes of Gentleman ghost, the circus one are really good and best ones so far
6: Female Penguin, like how she can be ruthless and successful and voice actress does a great job in role
7: The way batman hides in shadows to take down criminals
8: I don't mind Batman using a gun in final episode as I would prefer if he did at times but like the no killing rule too
9: The music is well done
DON'T LIKE:
1: Barbara is now too old and can't become batgirl, don't like her as a lawyer
2: Don't like they made Barbara and Montoya the focus of the series as Batman is background in own show
3: It is a bit boring most times, cliched, stories that has been done already especially the death of the Waynes
4: Harley Quinn in jester outfit is pointless, they should just keep her as psychiatrist like original Leslie Thompkins
5: There aren't villains like Red Claw, Poison Ivy and other females they could use instead and done great stories
6: I would rather see a new take on Bruce Wayne or another character as Batman like Jean Paul Valley or someone
as someone who hasn't seen the show (I will now) coming from this video, I believe the show isn't bad, but definitely half-baked. I might come back to this comment after watching the full show
I would recommend the show, especially if you're a Batman fan
I think people over exaggerate with Penguin in Caped Crusader, now it’s not to say that Bruce Timm hadn’t chosen his words wrong, as there are plenty of female Batman villains. But to be fair there is no definitive Penguin, he’s always changed throughout every appearance, so having a female Penguin isn’t really breaking new ground but rather a new spin. Also I do like the fact that she’s tall reminds me of an Emperor Penguin. Here’s hoping that Caped Crusader will bring in more obscure villains I really love Onomatopoeia
I really don’t mind the Gordons being black or Harley not being insane
5:13 thought you could sneek in ForrestFire101 audio without anyone noticing, huh? Well I did. And I loved it lmao
Childhood favorite of mine 😂
I think the show should just be interpreted as its own take on Batman.
There are 9 different batman animated series, each one having its own spin on the caped crusader.
We see this happen in live action movies, live action tv shows, and animated movies for Superman, Spiderman, the X-Men and the Avengers. Batman is no exception to having several different takes on the original comic books.
I'm a big fan of Caped Crusader as it feels like a mixture between a throwback to the 90s, a comic accurate version of the 40s, and a new spin on many of the characters. It may not be for everyone, but it certainly has its target audience.
Agreed. I have my problems and prefrences with it, obviously, but I'm still looking forward to season 2.
A very unique adaptation for sure!
I feel like if there was a show about Batwings and the Blackbat everyone would be thinking, "Where's Batman and Batgirl?", or "Where's Bruce and Barbara?".
I feel like race/gender/orientation swapping of established characters is just a cheap, cost-effective marketing ploy. Sure, you could spend time and money to make a brand-new character, but why do that when you could instead farm clicks from both the left and the right by taking an established white character, making them black, gay and the opposite gender and watch as the left applauds you for being stunning and brave and the right heckles you for being woke and lazy, which brings lots of attention to your show. Long-established characters also sell better of course.
3:51 lol they did not do their research on the penguin and so they made him a woman
I see about diversity is if you want put it in your story it has to have a purpose in it if it doesn't you're film or TV show or book will be rubbish.
I don't think showing diversity is by itself a bad thing. I just hate it when it's at the expense of established characters or if it's the number one selling point of the creators on a project.
@@michaelthecinebro Yep 100% Agree withyou. yeah diversity is not bad if you have a purpose to it. For me I wouldn't mind to see something similar to the Batman the animated series but it's set in Africa like a African version of Batman or a Japanese version of Batman all my favourite idea British version of Batman, I imagine in the British Batman, Batman and villains were spend 90% of the time just taken the piss out one another in the most British banter away possible and with the Joker that bump up to 95% of the time and arrest well by fighting. In the British version I imagine for fighting style on Batman it's gonna be similar to bear knuckle boxing fighting style.
@@michaelthecinebro What do you think of my Batman ideas?
Uh no.........this is just wrong.......like the point is we want to get to where diversity is just apart of media we consume......and theres no reason behind it beside "that's just how it is"
This show isn’t terrible but I feel that using the golden age look was false advertising.
I’m a fan of the earth 2 version of Batman and they didn’t go far enough in making this an inspiration of those old comics, like a unique vintage art style or truly feeling like an old area of the Batman lore.
Aside from epi 8 this is the most bland milk toast Batman show. Also, what was even the point in the semi golden age esthetic?
It could’ve easily been set in modern times, and it kinda was.
Beware the Batman was more interesting & memorable than this imo.
You kinda give Bruce timm too much credit, ppl like Paul Dini, alan burnett, Dwayne mcduffie, darwyn cooke, all the rest made btas & the dcau in general the classic that it is.
Btw, I’m glad you brought up that you agree with what both sides say on stuff in media now.
I just have to say on Onomatopoeia is that even if he is intimidating in the show, he's so neutered from his first comic appearance. When I heard he was gonna be in the show, I got excited, but I just ended up being disappointed.
My exact take on this, I liked the show, it have flaws, very NOTICEABLE ones, the changes to some characters are dumb and don't improve on any of them, but what the show have that is fresh and new, they actually nailed, I liked the look, Batman, the corruption display in Gotham, the new villains or obscure ones that never got their chance until now like Onomatopoeia, I liked the new take on Clayface and Two Face, Selina Kyle in her classic costume was fun, Alfred is as always THE GOAT, and I'm intrigue for a season 2........but what didn't work was the dumb politically modern corrections NO ONE ASK FOR, first that comment on Bruce Timm, man the guy have disconnect from planet earth saying that dumb bs, all because he was cancelled for drawing sexy pin ups, and instead of stand up and ignored the mob, the surrender and joined it seems, sad to see, I loved Timm work, is a huge inspiration for my own, is just sad someone like him changed like this....... the race swap I can live with it, as long they capture the spirit of the character, Commissioner Gordon was fine, not better than before but I liked him here, Barbs was..........a MIX, I like some of the direction, she been a lawyer is interesting, I think her design was not bad after all, but man she loss so MUCH personality and likability in this, she can be at least improve in a season 2, so finger cross she become a bit more like Old Barbara.....................the Penguin and Harley, yeah hard NO, and a big miss opportunity, so many other villains could have been use here, obscure ones or just some that for some reason haven't been use in animated form.....Harley is so different from her original that I was expected this to not be Harleen Quinzel, just a different woman using the alias of HARLEY QUINN, but no it was supposed to be Harleen and nope it flat out missed the point.....and Penguin is a complete misfire, just deleted this character I not want to see this version ever again....also I like the story but it lack a powerful antagonist, I assume Harvey was going to be that, but in the end......THORNE, FLASS and the one that almost infuriate me....BULLOCK are the main villains? I love they show how corrupt Gotham is, but in the end I didn't want that to be the main opposition to Batman is just too boring, and also ruined Bullock for me, yes is always have been a crooked cop, but he always have been conflicted and have a moral at the end and became an ally to Batman and Gordon.....he still could be redeem but I kinda doubt it. Overall I give this show a weak 8 out of 10, almost a 7.....it have potential, but they need to stop doing these changes, introduce new characters, not change the ones people LOVE already, improve on villains people see as a JOKE, do what you guys did with MR.FREEZE, he was a joke before until TAS happen, take small villains like he was and make them BIG......I will love they use Cluemaster just to get to a proper STEPHANIE BROWN introduction.....hell same with Lady Shiva and Cain so we can have Cassandra Cain.....add more, stop changed what doesn´t need change.
In place of the term woke, progressive sounds far more sophisticated. "The woke; star wars show" vs "the progressive; star wars show".
Great video that is none political for each side.
No offence to black people, but also there were no black cops during the '40s, not to mention a black comissioner. The same for lesbians kissing in public. If the show was set in modern time, I'd be fine with that, but it is not.
Race swapping is only ok when done solely for the actor and not for diversity points. A good example of this is Nick Fury in the MCU. Samuel L. Jackson played it so well, that the character is him at this point. No one cares that they changed the race because it was played well and done well, and also the race was never mentioned so it doesn’t have any effect.
I’m fine with LGBT representation, but only when it’s done with respect. Lately, I’ve pretty much only seen LGBT characters be just that. Their sexuality, gender, etc is their entire personality.
My point is, if the one of the only things you can remember about a character is their race, gender, sexuality, etc, you have not written a character, you’ve written a self-insert. This is not good storytelling or good character writing. If you want a great example of LGBT done right, watch Nimona. The two main characters are gay and gender-fluid respectively and no one cares because that’s not their entire personality, only a small aspect that has no overall bearing on the quality of the character.
(Also what they did with Harley in this show is unforgivable. They ruined her entire character development, character identity, and other things. It can work, but they did it horribly.)
Bruce Timm isn't a writer though. He's an artist. Paul Dini was the writer for the animated series. And he wrote the first two Arkham games as well. He's the one who understands Batman.
Batman The Caped Crusader
0% Good Animation
0% Good Writing
0% Naked Girls
0% Talent
0% Competent Batman
0% Badass action
0% Charm
100% Woke
100% Girlbossing
100% Straight Ass 🔥🗣️💯
Mmm, ah yes, naked woman, the best way to determine a show's quality
The Harley Quinn story would have been serviced a lot better as a Hugo Strange story, and I feel as though if you wanted to gender swap Hugo Strange, it would feel rather pointless, but at least it wouldn't run antithetical to their to character like it is for the Penguin.
Cobblepot is genuinely one of my favorites in the rogue's gallery, and they have completely missed everything interesting in his character within this tale. Now the character just feels like a less interesting rip off of Big Mom from One Piece, and what's even more heartbreaking is Tom Kenny is in the show and he has one of my favorite voices for the penguin.
Other than these issues I don't really mind anything else. Everything else was either serviceable or pretty good.
I think the Penguin gender swap *could* have worked when you look at how the pressure women have to be conventionally attractive and conform to ever-changing beauty standards. It could have been utilized to make the Penguin even more bullied and bitter
I think it's always funny when talking about female characters in batman's mythos half of the ones usually named are ones made by bruce timm and friends lol. there are so manny comics with so many different interpretations why are we still having a "accurate to the source material argument." Hell barbara isn't even the original batgirl, there a few before her. And she was created specifically for representation purposes. In the early comics at the time the animated series was a huge departure from her but we didn't care. Cause this obsession on "wokeness" just didn't exist.
If you like heath leagers joker, or really any of the dark knights characters guess what they are nothing like the comics or even animated interpretations. We like heath because he played a good character not an accurate joker. Same for the movie joker and so many others. The problem with the argument "she's not like X version" is that it's never applied equally. Who cares if the penguins a woman when he's getting a show, is part a man in almost every other continuity. Same with Harley, who also has a show, and a new movie coming out. The arguments in this video are just kinda weak if you've been enjoying these characters for years now.
i think gender swap / race swap or any other changes is not the issue until
1. they give these characters something the source material doesn't give them. for example making them nag about she hulk's anger management compare to hulk.
2. they make them gay
Personally I just don’t see much of a point in keeping that stuff if isn’t integral to their character. I don’t see why we can’t have both of what you said and what’s been done? I guess I don’t get what’s so offensive. Different takes are just different takes, they don’t erase what came before.
I don’t mean to come off as hostile, I just mean to ask a question. Why is it that big of a deal? Do things really have to be so rigid in structure that we can’t explore other avenues? Getting hung up on issues like these are just draining (as someone who used to get absolutely outraged by this back then on my end) is
We can’t have one Penguin or Harley that’s not like the sea of similar (but different) iterations?
@@Hamantha good question!
I genuinely think that representing races and cultures matter in entertainment. So if theres a character, lets say Storm from X-Men, was now a blonde white man and the people behind this desion said "it's just an interpritation, get over it." I would totally understand if people were bothered with it.
Thats not Storm. Storm is a black woman. Is her cultural background really brought up that much? No? Well lets try and show that off more.
Same goes for white characters.
That's not to say you can't radically change some characters but I think some good rules to follow are these: Is there an in universe explanation for the change? And how does it benifit the story? If those can't be answered, it shouldn't be changed.
@@michaelthecinebro I did indirectly say race didn’t matter. I’ll completely accept that, and further say that that wasn’t what I meant. Race absolutely does matter like you’ve said
I agree with the criteria you’ve set out for the most part, I just feel like there should be more leniency within reason.
For me the reason why I think it’s better to change a white character is just simply down to this, and there’s no better way to say it: there are JUST more white characters than black. Yes it should be okay across the board to change a character’s race and gender as well as it’s done in the right way and respectfully, but it comes down to if someone should rather than could. Why would take from someone’s plate if you already have a ton on your own or someone else’s does? Not the perfect analogy in this state but my point still stands. Thank you for engaging with me and showing me the many faults in my previous statement, I didn’t mean what I ended up implying
@@michaelthecinebro as for what they did with the Penguin specifically, I think they made the change better than anyone will give it as if right now. It’s more than a mere cosmetic change, it’s a full new take based around the changes and use them well for reasons probably better saved for another day.
Lastly, I don’t think there really needs to be an in universe reason for a race or gender change, no one is really black or male for a reason after all, they just are. Something I learned as someone who used to think that way is that I unintentionally believed and said white was the “default” (this is also excluding characters who are very much tied to and speak about their race as characters ofc)
yesss! the art and music of the opening are SO perfect😍
Batman TAS was leagues better in writing, acting, storytelling, and animation. That show always makes me think and feel emotions. This new show is just cheap and trying to stay on trend. And that level of diversity is so absurd for the 1940's, not to mention the cringey hipster dialogue.
I don’t really mind race swapping so long as it doesn’t hurt the pre established character or come off as pandering.
I thought Jeffrey Wright was great as Gordon in The Batman. He had the right mannerisms and demeanor for the character, he just happened to be black.
But with shows like this and Velma, it just feels unnecessary and forced.
The Batman was set during modern day so race swapping Gordon isnt a big deal. Batman the Cape Crusader is suppose to be set 1930.
@@MikePhillips-x6m You're 100% right, sir.
Can it really be called "surviving" if the only solution is a reboot?
Show was woke trash
You would think Warner Brothers would learn from Mrs. Freeze but nope they don't. Disney and Warner Brothers will never learn their lesson that's why they continue to flop.
Let's not forget Alfreds secret 😮😮😮😮
Going back with the race swapping, didn’t this happen with Harvey Dent in the Tim Burton Batman movie? And if this did happen, why was Billy Dee Williams not criticized for it, or the creative team for the 1989 Batman movie?
Because that was supposed to be a retrofuturistic gothic tale set in a world lost to time. This is not. This is supposed to be the actual 1940s, just with a masked vigilante in a big city. That was, at least, the original concept of the show.
How about I don’t know use black lightning duke Thomas just off the top of my head
MR FREEZE originally was called mr 0
his renaming happened in Batman 66
This Harly Quinn is just a different character. It would be better to caller he Jester and make her, her own character.
Something I have learned is that people honestly don't care about change unless it is bad. When they changed nick fury no one really gave/gives a shit. The entire spiderverse is just a collection of spinnoffs to the regular spiderman. Changing April in the New TMNT movie. These characters all ended up being great so no one cared. It's every you change a character for the worse that people get upset
to be fair…if Lady Shiva was in caped crusader, this batman getting wiped off the map, honestly though the show had a weak start but i’m glad i stayed for the ride because i enjoyed eps 4 and up. Two face especially subverted my expectations with how it switches up the motivation for the acid splash and how ep 10 does something completely different with him (still dumb that he went to the bathroom though) I definitely think the show is flawed but i think a season 2 that fixes upon it could make this a classic
I mean Batman and DC in general has been doing the multiverse so gordan being black isn't a big deal.
You had me until the last 15 seconds there.
I disagree with your last statement and therefore you are wrong and I am right over a slight (7 seconds or so) difference in opinion.
know that not every Batman fan
dislike Batman forever /Batman and Robin
most people dont understand that they are part of the same story
It was obvious this was going to be woke trash.😂
i think the show souldve had more episodes
2-3 episodes per villian?
that would fix alot of problems i think
for me its a 6.5/10 ( like most people do 7 is not "MID" for me instead like it would make sense a 5 is it for me) its enjoyable enough that i watched it with interest threw and would watch s2
I haven’t watched the video yet, but my biggest hypothesis for all the gender/race swaps is that the show is otherwise too damn similar to Batman TAS, and they wanted to make it distinctive enough from that show. Should have just gone with a different story altogether.
I hate when they do this sexuality as well new 52 tim drake im looking at u
I didn't agree with all your points. But I thought you had some good ones. It feels unfair to ignore actual characters of color in order to use more popular names. Which is not to say the race or gender swapping is always bad. However, these days I feel like if you're making something big and official, have a reason. It's not true diversity if you are swapping a race, but then not considering the cultural background that entails. Race and gender swaps could really add to a character in some ways. Asian Lois means she can better understand Superman's immigrant identity. Black J'onn J'onzz provides an interesting persepective of not being human-passing or white-passing like Superman is. I guess my point is to have a point?
That's a good point with Asian Lois. I think some race changes work like Nick Fury. I just hate how a lot of media had been dealing with this problem.
So would you recommend me to watch the show?
@@JoshioE110 If you're a Batman fan, give it a shot. If not, probably skip.
This show was woke woke woke woke woke woke woke woke woke woke woke woke woke woke woke woke woke woke woke woke woke
You can do diversity well, but by large it isn't. I think creating a new character is better than changing an old one. You also still have to have basic storytelling skills, though. Which seems to be what's lacking in media.
watched Batman Caped Crusader and after three episodes I just wasn't interested. I watched BTAS afterwards for the first time and it blew my mind. The episode Mad love was so emotional tbh
This show’s new take on Harley Quinn, IMHO, felt genuinely Hannibal Lecter-level _creepy_ in her featured episode, which I did find cool (😎). I also like how this version of Harleen Quinzel has established herself as Harley completely all on her own. I for one _do_ appreciate that in giving the character more agency because let’s face it, as _truly_ enduring and timeless as she is (with nothing about her that really needs “fixing”), OG Harley’s whole story is that of a poor girl trapped in an *abusive* relationship, who was psychologically manipulated into it, and has fallen in love with the _IDEA_ of the Joker (🃏) who completely failing to see him for who he _really_ is.
Why did you change your name to the cinebro? Because the suffix 'phile' or 'file' is almost always associated with .PDF files?
oh, nevermind, just saw the community post.
ngl
i think with harvey they tried but failed
i saw it as that they just back and forthed between the 2 ideas what they wanted todo with harvey
but overhaul jes enjoyable and i liked the back and forth in the last episodes between his 2 personas
This is such a shit woke show
I’ll say this about rise April it works because it technically has an origin it’s not legit but it comes from a misconception
Batman is an equal opportunity crime fighter
You mean to tell me they had a variety of obscure diverse characters to choose from and did nothing with them?!
BOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
If batman can survive the batskates, it can survive anything! That ending got me 😂
the female penguin reminded me of maria murdoc from cowboy bebop😂
I dont really care about the genderswapping and race changing. Its not even a new thing for the movies. the 1988 movie made Harvey Dent black, Lego Batman Movie made Jim and Barbara Gordon of Hispanic decent, and Jim Gordon was black in the Batman and literally nobody GAF so whats the big deal if its done more frequently in newer Batman shows and or movies? lThe only complaint I have is that the Penguin doesn't have either a New York nor a cockney British accent. They gave them a generic white woman voice and it never not feels weird.
@@ChurchoftheLatterDayShrek race swapping I don't mind for certain characters. Like Catwoman, who has been portrayed as black multiple times.
Though there are exceptions I don't like the frequency of it with so many characters over the years and how it seems to be only applied for traditional white characters.
I'm MAGA so hate the stupidity of woke. I really liked this version of Batman, it's a cartoon, a made-up universe where the characters can be anything the writer wants. What matters is whether you enjoy the show. I did. Better than ST Discovery, that is genuinely awful. Cool car.
Wow so if you don't know what to do with your characters just gender bend/ switch race it will all fix the problem
Gordon being black in this series is nothing new. Lando played him in live action decades ago.
Personally, I like that they set out to do something different with the characters. Give it the Spiderverse lens. We know it's not the definitive versions of the characters, so they like to do interesting twists with it. Femguin was actually pretty scary, being so heartless as to kill her own son. Harley Quinn, much less whimsical as before but they decided to focus on the fact that she is a psychiatrist and dial it up to 11. Something almost every other incarnation of Harley tends to abandon or forget about. Clayface was an interesting change of pace and toning down his powers made him feel more real. Cat Woman was fun. She really was an irresponsible klepto who donned a mask because she loves stealing and wanted to get dicked by a vigilante. The embodiment of chaotic neutral. Two-Face/Dent was an 11/10 characterization. I loved the corrupt cop characters. Gentleman Ghost was hilariously petty. Onomatopoeia I have to admit was the only real miss for me. Could replace him with any generic grunt and nothing would change beyond the lack of sound effects.
Lando played Harvey Dent.
There going off the comics not the series
Turned out off, as soon as I saw female penguin.
Dude is super reasonable wth
I try to be 😂
Almost all are.
Yeah tbh it reminds me of the last Jedi in quite a few ways
Excellent points as always. Goated channel 🔥
Thank you!
I enjoyed Caped Crusader
Why not just watch the show and ignore the gender and race swaps because ultimately it doesn't matter.
Case and point: Jim Gordon in The Batman 2022.
The onlybreason i let the penguin thing kinda slide is her relation with her kids. This wouldn't have hited as hard if she was a man but at the same time,they could've done something else,respecting what came before
I like Batman cape crusader
Same but it was good
I think you forget that this isn't an adaptation of any comic. The characters looking different shouldn't be surprising cause it's supposed to be a new universe. They don't have to be a copypaste from the comics. People get mad about them having their gender or race changed but Barbara is a lawyer now and Harley isn't jokers pet anymore and that's not making people mad for some reason? I honestly don't care in this situation cause it doesn't take place in an already established universe. This isn't the live action little mermaid (an actual adaptation) where it's supposed to be the original story but real. There you can argue that it's for the sake of pandering. But here it's a non issue to me.
People were excited for this show because it looked like it was gonna be a noir detective Batman show from the 40s Bill Finger Batman era.
Nobody wanted to see Bruce Timm’s Penguin fanfiction and lesbo fanfiction.
I actually enjoyed this series.
Do I Look,Like I Give A Fuck?
I liked this show and didn't mind the race swap I hope it gets a S2
Woke used to be the left equivalent of Based. It was only natural for the Woke to end up Woke and the Based to end up Based.
Nice try Diddy 🤣 this show is st8 trash