Correction: I got it wrong saying this show had mostly original villains, it actually just used lesser known villains from the comics. I was unfamiliar with Nocturna, but I should've recognized Gentleman Ghost. I guess I was just checked out at that point.
''Look, Bats, when I was a doctor, I was always listening to other people's problems. Then I met Mr. J, who listened to me for a change and made everything fun.'' ~ Harley Quinn
In my opinion everything was wrong on Harley; race swapped, personality swapped, different outfit, different background... She was, in effect, another character in completely.
I’m real sad about this, because the idea of a Batman series set in the 1940’s is not a doomed concept. Think about the cool 40’s, wartime tech Batman could have used. This could have been an opportunity to tell stories with real old school Batman characters. They could have given a spotlight to villains like Hugo Strange, Tiger Shark, Dr Death and Mad Monk, instead of rehashing Harley Quinn for the hundredth time. My biggest complaint is that you can’t “modernise” the world of Batman and also set the show in the 40’s?! It makes no sense!
@@Omnicrush333I think it would have been a good idea for the writers to stick with characters created before 1950. (So Ivy is out) We could have started the series off with 1940’s era mobster Joker, with an arc leading up to Hugo Strange or Tiger Shark being revealed as the true mastermind.
Honestly this made me realizes how much of a team effort BTAS was. Everyone from the voice actors to the music had a part in the success to the show and we were wrong to give Bruce timm more credit than he deserves ( not that he doesn't deserve any).
Also helps the people BTAS are actually talented and actually cared about the characters. It's probably a good thing that Bruce Timm had very little control over BTAS.
@@ClassicHarleyQuinnBTAS was great but some characters were done dirty. Killer Croc was turned to a one dimensional thug instead of being the tragic sympathetic monster he is, but to be honest i may be biased since Killer Croc is my favorite DC villain. Hugo Strange was pretty one dimensional too since they didn’t focus on the whole “wanting to be a better Batman” aspect of his character and he wasn’t particularly cold and methodical like he usually is. Catwoman was not done that well, she was more serious, less carefree and confident than she usually is and funnily enough other shows that came after BTAS did a better job portraying her more faithfully (Batman Brave and the Bold and The Batman 2004) managed to make her more of a fun and energetic character she usually is. A more obscure villain, The Werewolf, was done dirty since in the comic he’s from he was pretty tragic with his lycanthropy and only took the serum that would eventually turn him in a wolfman in the hopes of curing him, but in BTAS he just took the compound to basically cheat at sports since he was a Olympic athlete, so they stripped the tragic element away from him. I like BTAS as much as the next guy but it’s not the perfect Batman adaptation, so it doesn’t need to be placed on a pedestal.
He gets credit for art style, THATS IT, especially after this show. The art direction is great, the writing is hot dog water. Nothing like BTAS nothing like JL or JLU nothing like SAS
I agree, not to mention I can tell Bruce Timm wanted Barbara as the main character, why? Because he simps for her constantly whenever he’s in the writer’s chair. Check out other projects he’s been involved in that involve the character.
JJ Abrams has never understood the source material for anything he has done. He doesn’t know Star Trek. He doesn’t know Star Wars. And he certainly doesn’t know Batman.
Matt Reeves's The Batman also didn't understand Batman and also was uber boring. He's as guilty as Jar Jar, but there's too much Reeves shilling lately
@@nrdscottI’m not saying this is the case for trek, but keeping something alive but it fucking sucks isn’t better than just leaving it alone with just the classic shit. Star Wars would 100 percent be better if Disney just left it alone and didn’t keep it going with dogshit and just had the og Lucas films. Same goes for lord of the rings, even more so imo.
Yeah hugo strange in arkham city he know everything about the criminals in the tapes seriously he gets no love hugo strange would make sense as the main villain over harley quinn... Without the joker
Bruce Timm mixed with JJ is a recipe for disaster. Old heads like me remember when Paul Dini, Alan Burnett and Dwayne Mcduffie (RIP) were the shining beacons in DC animation.
Bruce Timm left to his own devices (no Paul Dini writing etc) is really bad. (Edit: i should note Darwyn Cook was one of the primary writers along with Paul Dini for the good Bruce Timm stuff, but he pretty much always had good writers connected to his stuff until around 2013ish, and it has been mostly really bad since.)
@@BaithNa yeah actually Dwayne McDuffie is arguably more important than either of those (I was actually thinking of him when I said Darwyn Cooke but both were involved)
See, I’ve got no problem with going back to the Golden Age. The problem is this show isn’t willing to commit to being a 1940s Batman show. Instead of trying to act like it’s the second coming of BTAS, why not try and make the Batman equivalent to the Fleischer Superman cartoons? I’m serious, just make a series of extremely well-animated 2D shorts that capture the essence of Golden Age Batman the same way the Fleischer Superman shorts did. It shouldn’t be that hard (okay, it might be a bit hard given how little money Zaslav wants to give to animated projects). If they did that, they’d have an absolute win on their hand. But they chose JJ and Timm, and they reaped what they sowed.
That would’ve been awesome. I was hoping more for something like that 75th anniversary animated short they did. They should’ve totally pivoted to something more unique and akin to the Fleischer cartoons and fitting the time period. The art style is also way too crisp and clean looking in my opinion. They should’ve gone black and white too imo. Just do anything to differentiate it from the DCAU in terms of art style. Give us something fresh that isn’t trying to bank on our nostalgia for BTAS style-wise.
How is it bad. The stories are solid, the references and cameos are solid, the aesthetic is solid, the characters just a bit underwhelming. Istg, people like you have lost common sense in favor of identity politics
@@MisterSlimee If you have to ask that it means you're not a fan of Batman anyway. Which is why you can be so dismissive about a lot of things, even calling the story good and I think that's ok. If you like the show cool, but for us actual fans... its not scooby doo remake bad, but for a batman show? it's not good.
''Look, Bats, when I was a doctor, I was always listening to other people's problems. Then I met Mr. J, who listened to me for a change and made everything fun.'' ~ Harley Quinn
@@TheParagonIsDead "what you’re there for doesn’t mean anything, it’s about their vision" Then why would I watch it if what I'm there for doesn't mean anything? You just made my point for me.
I don't know if it's just me, but I say Bruce Timm shouldn't touch the Batman franchise with a ten foot pole without supervision from some writers and directors who actually understand Batman... Lest we forget the horrible Killing Joke adaptation. I still get PTSD flashbacks at the mere mention of it...
@@Drums_of_Liberation Bro, who the f is going to skip the first thirty minutes of a movie that they've never seen before? Also, if you half to skip the first third of a movie, how can that movie be called "fine"?
It's weird how they changed Barbara Gordon into a woman of color and then she proceeds to be redundant or Renee. These attempts to make Barbara Gordon a bigger player in the lore always seem to make her less interesting. Also Harley Quinn should never be Batman's Psychiatrist. They do not have that dynamic. Hugo Strange and Jonathan Crane are clearly better candidates for this role. They just chose Harley Quinn because she's a "pillar" apparently.
Harley as Bruce's psychiatrist could work in the sense of what if it was Bruce she interviews instead of The Joker in like a one off else worlds type of story. Just one of those what if stories.
This is how I feel about James Gordon’s currant situation, who feels like he’s being written as the “black token character”. It sucks, because we have established black characters (Lucius Fox, Crispus Allen etc.).
Harley Quinn being Batman’s psychiatrist has worked good in Harley Quinn the animated series. Mainly in season 3 in where she helps Bruce deal with his trauma. Sure he got arrested during the Season 3 Finale, but Bruce said that maybe prison would be good since it will help him deal with all of his trauma. And besides, he wanted the people of Gotham to know that there are consequences in this city, even for him.
@@samflood5631 I strongly dislike that show, I haven't seen that season and don't intend to at all. What I mean is that she never meets The Joker instead it's Bruce she meets.
@@ClassicHarleyQuinn Funnily enough, it seems like they just saw the Harley Quinn show in the later season, where she does end up becoming Bruce's psychiatrist. The episode where it actually explored the idea of having Harley help Bruce was actually good and worked I felt, of course it also helps the show is more comedic, but it still worked given what happens in the very episode to have the newly explored dynamic. So yeah, Caped Crusader seemed like it wanted to copy its homework but without the much-needed context it needed for such a dynamic to take place which the Harley Quinn show not only did first, but better.
Why must all that is art in the 2020s be controlled by people who despise the source material so badly who twist it out of pure spite The world doesn't make sense to me anymore, its like seeing your playful grandpa slowly turn insane and you can't do anything to stop it
Except there's usually some scientific reason when our grandpa's go insane, this, this makes absolutely 0 sense, not even from the corporate standpoint cause we all know this crap doesn't make money
@@thomasoveracker1115 Sometimes what mainstream entertainment does seems so nonsensical that I start to think that those theories about this all being part of the corpos farming social credit to store away for a new social order makes more sense. But then I remember other times in history where people in power have been horrendously out of touch and not with some hidden agenda and then the mental merry-go-round of 'why are they doing this??' starts again.
she also seemed to not know he was an old batman villain which is odd. All the villains in this show (even firebug) are old batman villains from the golden / silver / bronze ages
Making Batman a side character in his own show is certainly a choice. Despite critics loving it, because of course those shills do, the audience hasn't been as receptive and for good reason. We've had better. People need to stop dropping their standards just because it wasn't as bad as the last. The DCAU gave us great content, and these iterations are not up to that standard. The Harley Quinn show, MAWS, Caped Crusader, etc, not uo to par. Them not being the worst thing in the world doesn't then make them great.
@@BaithNaI wouldn't really call any of those shows excellent as opposed to catering to an audience that has little to standards so because of that they can do/write whatever they want and no one would fully bat an eye
Thank you. I know Harley Quinn has it's fans, but I feel that could be a much better show than it is. And I appreciate calling out MAWS, too. Are we so desperate for Superman to be a hero again that we'll accept him as a total insecure, awkward beta male? It's like Clark Kent is both roles
A way Batman Caped Crusader could have worked with a black Jim Gordon and Barbara Gordon is by not making black Jim Gordon police commissioner. Back in the day there was a comic, Batman: Year One. It dealt with Batman in his first year crimefighting and dealing with a corrupt city government and police force who were in on the urban decay with the mob. A 30s-40s Batman could have run with that and had Batman being effective in cleaning up crime syndicates and mobsters in opposition to the Gotham elite's wishes. Where a black Jim Gordon could have come into this is by maybe having Gordon be a leader of the Gotham dockworkers, or warehouse workers, or general working class group who the Gotham city government dismisses as a nonentity. That could have been an interesting dichotomy. The elite hate Batman as a vigilante for ruining their corrupt graft while the blue collar working class like Batman for taking out the criminals no matter who they were or who they were connected to Downtown. That could have worked for subtly acknowledging 1940s racism while not making it obvious and having black Jim Gordon be like Batman's pulse to keep track of what was going on in the street. That could have worked as a good kind of duality to explore. Rich Bruce Wayne is completely out of his element as a vigilante and who he associates with to be effective as Batman, but learns and evolves and takes on the criminal element from the bottom street level up, following the connections to the bosses in their fitted suits and offices and high society parties. Instead we got this.
Gordon was a cop before chief. He could’ve gotten a promotion that he was deserved despite the color change. Bar. I guess she’s ok. Penguin hard to swallow. Everybody else is so muted. I feel like they’re going to ruin the real villains and characters later on =\
That takes actual creativity though. The series The Batman cartoon was kind of lacking in some of the versions of it's villains, but having Clayface be Bruce's old friend was interesting to me.
But... why? This series isn't actually set in the '40s, it was just used as an aesthetic. There's no need to make a whole deal out of ethnicity or sexuality or whatever. Honestly, I just assumed that Jim (and, as a consequence, Barbara) are dark-skinned because the last actor who has played the character is Jeffrey Wright, so I don't see the deal; but even if it that's not the case, and the ethnicity-swap was really just done to get diversity point (which is not a good thing), that doesn't affect the quality of the story at all, it would just be a bad character design decision made because of bad reasons.
Its pretty bad when the last scene of the show, a one minute brief glimpse of The Joker experimenting with his toxin on victims he kidnapped, is more compelling than the rest of the series combined.
Its refreshing to hear a reviewer that focuses on the writing and characters themselves. Like I do not care what race Gordon is as long as his story line is good and they keep key character points.
Only saw the first two episodes and I'm done. I kinda hate it when the "new and original" version of the character just means making them less complex. From what I saw, both Harvey Dent and Bullock were just dickheads, instead of the more nuanced portrayals they got in the past
@@raziel7148 I never said otherwise. The problem is the show's just uninteresting so I don't even care to watch more to see if they eventually bother developing them.
I didn't mind that; he was a different character for it and rather then go from good to corrupted he went from corrupt to turning around, maybe why there's a swap on the face.
I didn’t like that concept either. From what I knew of the character his tragedy was his fall from obsession with cleaning up the criminal element to becoming a part of that element.
I mean, it's a huge jump from "This show is bad" to "the WB execs have showcased such a good understanding of writing quality - unlike how they did with every other production both in the past and in the present - that they decided to sell the show and not associate themselves with it due to some moral highground they usually don't display".
Being honest I hated that they portrayed Bruce as a narcissistic abuser of Alfred who talks to him only in the batman voice. How could that happen WHEN ALFRED RAISED HIM and GAVE HIM HIS CODE? There is not one piece of Batman medium where Bruce has EVER been disrespectful or dehumanized because he knows Alfred is the only family he has. As a matter of fact - there have been instances where Alfred has DISCIPLINED adult Bruce for being rude to guests or even members of the Bat family so seeing him be outright disrespectful and snippy with Alfred REALLY comes off as out of pocket and unwarranted My guess is the show does not want to portray any rich white men as decent human beings
“Abuser”… how was he abusing Alfred? He treated him like how anyone would treat their butlers, he was worried about Alfred dying and did you not notice this Batman is very closed off and you know. Went through development he is learning to open up to people. And if you want Batman actually abuse Alfred is called All star Batman and Robin boy wonder.
As with most modern updates of franchises I loved, I've skipped it. I have no more interest in seeing franchises I loved undermined and warped for ''modern audiences''.
I watched it not realizing how updated for modern audiences it was. I remember seeing the teaser and being so excited because it looked like we were getting a continuation of the animated series or atleast inspired by it. It wasn’t until my friend told me it released already that we decided to watch it. The show had some good aspects like two face learning to be a better man and a Harley that wasn’t always cracking jokes and being annoying. But everything else really brought the show down for me just leaving me disappointed. I expected a traditional Batman story but instead we got Batman for twitter.
There's a lot that I can forgive. That doesn't make these things good, just sins that I can at least forgive, but what I can't forgive is that show barely shows us Batman. Seriously, for a vigilante that dawns the costume every night, we rarely get to see Batman doing his thing. He's not even much of a detective. Everyone else does the detective work for him, essentially. If I wanted to watch a Batman show without Batman, I would watch Gotham...not Gotham Knights, that show was hot dog shit. It's called Batman the Caped Crusader, show us Batman damn it!
I, as a huge BTAS fan, have no interest in this show. Especially it's version of the characters. I will however be checking out the Nocturne episode so thank you for the recommendation!
I have watched the show, it's bad, literally got a headache and now going to sleep it off. That is episode 8 by the way, decent episode and the best out of them all but it's not great.
Thank you! People exaggerate the diversity in this show. It’s not egregious as they say. There’s even a black corrupt cop. Diversity is not an issue here. What is a problem is how dull everything is. Bruce is my least favorite version of this character. We keep following the GCP rather than Batman. Most of the villains are enthralling. I’m surprised that people who created BTAS made this. Because it has none of the heart. This show isn’t terrible, but it isn’t great. It was just a waste of time, I can hardly remember the episodes despite it coming out recently. I wish I never saw it and invested my time in something else.
@@josephthegamer157 Bruh, I don’t care. There’s like 50 incarnations of these characters being white. Them being a different race every blue moon ain’t gonna kill you.
The one good episode that you mentioned sounds like a never made episode of Batman the animated series where they planned on making an episode with the character nocturna but couldn’t because of the restrictions involved even with a few compromises.
All point of modern Harley Quinn is "she is not with Joker anymore, and you WILL understand that (even if she still wear clown suit, still villain and dont want to become normal person, dont even try to.)"
I don’t remember which episode it was, but there is a scene where Bruce is going at it on a punching bag in his gym, and I couldn’t help but think about a similar scene in the BTAS episode “Appointment in Crime Alley” Getting a little technical here, but the animation of that scene looked super fluid because of those extra in between frames. There was also plenty of squash and stretch in the bag as it was flooding under the weight of Bruce’s punches. The sounds also made each punch feel heavy and it progressively picked up the more we hear Roland Dagget talking on the tv in the background. One could envision Bruce wanting to bop Dagget in the face after hearing him disparage the inner cities of Gotham. Then there this version. It doesn’t help that the design for these characters look flat and dull, but there was no weight to those punching animations. The punches themselves have very little in between frames and they looked choppy and weak. Also the posing for some of these punches looked weird. It’s a long analysis on a short scene, but that scene to me was indicative of how flat and stiff the designs and the animation looks. It looked cheap and dull and the colors looked muddy, devoid of life. There’s a flatness to this show that continues to persist me the more I watch it. I’m on episode 10 and it just feels boring so far.
Yes to all of this! And we can go even further and talk about the audio design (or lack thereof) where it just doesn't sound like characters are in the spaces they are in. Not sure if it's a lack of ambient noise or what, but the soundscape of this show also feels flat
Thank you, I don't know why More people don't pay attention to animation. We can do so much better . But companies don't respect animation (invincible season 2) and people don't know any better. They see imagine. They think it good.
@@robchuk4136 There were definitely some scenes where ambient noise would’ve made sense to be present. When Bruce is in the restaurant with Harvey and it sounds like he’s talking in a megaphone. There’s some VERY light sound in the background but it just didn’t feel realistic. Also, the shading in this show is so lazy too.
I think it would have been alright to just have Harley be a phyciatrist, and instead have someone like Hugo Strange for an early villain. Hugo would certainly fit the 40s aesthetic.
As they say. If you can't imagine your version of Batman comforting a dying child, that's not Batman, that's the Punisher in a funny hat. Of they are gonna give Batman a gun. By law the Shadow must appear to sue him for copyright. They also made their Jason stand-in red haired. Which proves to me they didnt actually read his pre-crisis comics. Since he was strawberry blonde. The red hair was a Morrison Crime. And while its nice he got screen time, he had a strong mother and son relationships with Nocturna in Red Skies. So its kinda lame that Kerri is the focus. And they Butchered Natasha/Natalia again! Can they stop destroying my fav pre-crisis villian! Her being a mother to robin was a big part of her storyline and now shes ok with sucking the life out of them? And physio Nightslayer is the voice of reason? Ick, i hate it. We get one good Batman eps and it shits all over my fav vill. There us also some really bed continuity breaks that really pulled me out. By the order of events and movements, Stephanie is laying one the floor in the same spot where Anton is crushed by the shelf. Its messy and lazy
They completely changed Nocturna! She’s also like a teenager in this version, so I can understand her not being a seductress vampire as that would be very odd for a teenaged character. But at this point she seemed completely different
@PunchandJewelee90 she wasnt even a vamp till n52, that was just DC giving her the 'Morrison butchers Talia' treatment. If it wasnt for the names and eps titles shes a completely new character
technically this harley was originally what the creators first had in mind for harley, but dc rejected it because it was to dark. So it’s cool that he was able to bring his original vision in a show.
@@Ivan_950 according to Paul Dini (Harleys true creator) Harley was based on Arleen Sorkins personality, so there was never a plan to make her dark and gritty. That´s nonsense!
No disrespect but JJ Abrams is the kind of guy who is living off of his past glories or notoriety. It's obvious from his last few projects that he does not understand the lore of what he's working on. He thinks he can just come in and put his own spin in the canonical world but the problem is that world was filled with passion. You can tell from his Works nowadays that he's just in it for a money grab
Renee was an addition to the original series. She didn't replace someone else. That, IMO, is why she worked. They could very easily have added a different Defense Attorney, and left Barbara alone, used Hugo Strange instead of an unrecognizable Harleen. Used a different character than Peguin, perhaps the similar Fish Mooney in an animated form. There are ways that work, but their INTENTION was spite.
Personally, I think Batman: Arkham Origins has a better depiction of a year-two Batman becoming more open to Alfred and learning to work with allies instead of doing everything on his own.
Something I noticed immediately was the animation. Background characters barely move, even the speaking characters in foreground sometimes barely move. I thought it was frozen more than once. It reminds me of really old Space Ghost budget animation. Is this intentional? I dont understand lol
I actually love Roxy Rocket... the thing is, no writers seem to get how to make her work. And she doesn't seem to fit with the dark and dreary world of modern DC comics. I'm actually glad that they didn't stick her in this show, they would have sucked all the fun out of her as they did with 'Harley Quinn'.
Batman deserves far better. _FAR_ better than the way he's being currently treated. We're talking about a character with nearly a *century* of literary and artistic pedigree behind him. And how do they handle such lineage...? "DuRR, hOw GaY cAn We MaKe ThIs?!!1?!!" We want the real Batman. The real James Gordon. The real Harley Quinn. The real Barbara Gordon. The real Harvey Dent. Not this. Not whatever slop Caped Crusader is. It's a lot of things... all of it bad... ... and none of it Batman.
I think they are still trying to get out of BTAS's shadow after 2 decades, so it's understandable it's not gonna be the definitive Batman cause they're going all kind of experimental with it. Some work (That Batman) some don't (this show) but I'd rather them stop trying to make everything Batman for once.
Thank you for your thoughtful review/analysis of this series, Jester. The "Nocturne" episode was my favorite as well, especially with how creatively the writer adapted Nocturna, which was a villain Bruce Timm planned to adapt in the original DCAU but was unable to because of censorship laws in the '90s. As for the other characters and storylines, I thought this was an interesting reinvention of the Batman mythos and gave us intriguing new versions of the characters, but beyond that...nothing truly engaging. The animation, art style and music are amazing, as to be expected from Warner Bros. Animation and a new Batman series, but this lacks the magic and quality of the '90s Batman series. Admittedly, I tend to elevate Bruce Timm above Paul Dini due to my misconception that animation and art requires more effort than writing, but I have to keep in mind that writing is what truly makes a series work. Anyhow, I'm glad we finally got to see this series and it did give us a colorful '40s noir era reinvention of Batman and his cast of characters, but I don't think it will be remembered as one of the "best" Batman series. Ultimately, it's just a new interpretation of Batman and seeing it like that, it was fun to see this new version of the character.
@@anthonykarnes6804 true but that is all timm had going for himself, if it wasn't for paul dini and the team behind the dcau, it would have failed badly, good animation can only take you so far. like look at the masters of the universe show from kevin smith, pretty great animation, but the writing is awful.
Why race-swap the Gordons? Jim and Barbara have always been Caucasian, so going out of their way to brownwash them doesn't seem that great; for some reason, whitewashing characters is always seen as "racist" and "hateful" and the like, but brownwashing them is perfectly fine, if not somehow _beneficial_ - why does this stupid double standard exist? Neither whitewashing or brownwashing should be at all acceptable - and since the goal of brownwashing is DiVeRsiTy points, might I remind DC that they've long since introduced Lucius Fox to Batman's crew? A black man who's effectively Bruce's right-hand man, managing Wayne Industries and his secret Bat-tech? Barbara also being much older than normal, and being a DA instead of a librarian, are also very strange decisions. Additionally, why bring back Harley fucking Quinn YET AGAIN? So sick of this stupid goddamn character; sure, she became popular after Batman: TAS, but does she really need to be in practically EVERYTHING since? Give her a rest, for once, DC! Oh, and I just realised they gender-swapped the Penguin. WHY. So bizarre and stupid; Penguin's always been a short, fat guy with a monocle, and he should have stayed that way; gender-swapping characters, just like race-swapping, is lazy and nonsensical in my mind. Just NO. If this show does the same thing as The Batman by making Barbara a Bat before Dick Grayson (who, from what I can tell, is still quite young)...then this show will have no appeal for me. I just can't stand Batgirl (or Batwoman) as a character, as she's completely redundant and extraneous compared to the classic Dynamic Duo pairing of Batman & Robin; when it comes to fighting and crime-busting, that's always been a man's role, what with fit and healthy guys far outstripping girls in physical strength and stamina (due to natural sexual dimorphism). Batgirl's never had a place here, in my book; her best role is as Oracle, supporting the Duo with info, rather than somehow beating up thugs physically stronger than her.
@@PokeMaster22222 your entire reason for why Batgirl is redundant is literally just sexism lmao Is Wonder Woman redundant too because of Superman? Or Supergirl redundant because of him? Your comment there isn’t even a good reason beyond “ crime fighting should only be a mans job” dude people in the 50s had more progressive thinking than you when it comes to comics lmao
@@chandlerburse Gordon might have been race-swapped before, once or twice, but that still falls into the same discussion anyway - why is race-swapping a character who is *almost always* white into being brown ever acceptable, when vice-versa never is? He, and his daughter, have been white in almost every appearance, and are most well-known as Caucasian characters. Gordon, and Barbara, were Caucasian in Batman: TAS, in most Batman movies, in Batman: Arkham, and most comics. Suddenly making them brown, for no reason aside from "Diversity", is shallow, unnecessary, and inherently racist. Also, Lucius Fox has appeared before, BTW, making a notable appearance in the Batman: Arkham games, as well as the 2014-2019 Gotham TV show, and the Batman: The Enemy Within game made by Telltale Games. Sure, he's not as widely used as the Gordons, but he's still around. Next, the part about Batgirl? Yeah, that's solely my opinion, though it's not necessarily "sexist" as it is true in reality - think for a moment; why are sports still sex-segregated? Because the physical baselines and standards are different between the two sexes. Adult men, particularly those used to exercise and fitness, do indeed have an advantage over women, and especially teenaged girls (like Batgirl is usually portrayed as). So it's quite unbelievable, in my mind, that Batgirl could outfight various thugs and stuff. Granted, this IS fiction, but still breaks the suspension of disbelief for me. Also, I mentioned I found Barbara's alternate persona as Oracle to be quite inspired, as it provided her a way to still support her teammates even from a distance, even whilst disabled - making her actually unique and distinct from the rest of the Batfamily. As for your inane question "is Wonder Woman redundant because of Superman?" and the like? While they do share some similar powers - super strength, flight, super durability - they're not alike in other ways; Wonder Woman is, depending on the writer, more willing to kill than Clark is, and she also has her Lasso of Truth. Clark, meanwhile, is less willing to kill and has additional powers, like heat vision, freeze breath, X-ray vision, and so on. They're more different than Batman/Batgirl is, as the two Bats usually share the same end-goals and ways to take down enemies (as Barbara uses the same tech as Bruce, and she's not nearly as willing to kill as Jason). Indeed, the Robins are usually far more interesting than Batgirl is, as they each have their own personalities and ways of crimefighting - Jason Todd, especially after becoming Red Hood, is open to killing enemies; Dick Grayson becomes Nightwing, an independent crime-fighter, and Tim Drake, who later joins the Teen Titans.
My biggest problem with the show was this question that was on my mind throughout the whole thing; “What’s the point of Twoface if Harvey Dent is already a bad guy?” Edit: Also the Nocturne episode was pretty much the only one I liked, it was eerie and well done. She gave me the creeps!
@@applejones1697also man I was excited to finally see some obscure villains for a change, but this show wasted every opportunity! My particular favorite obscure villain is Onomatopoeia and I had hoped they’d do something interesting with him, but nah he’s just some thug.
@@questworldiangreenknight7455 He is not a bad guy What he is is susceptible To his vanity He wants to save Gotham As always But his vanity makes him Week to manipulation He is only the bad guy Only if you believe that Barbara is The good guy and she is not The end of episode seven Shows you exactly who this Barbara is
@@ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΑ-ε1ω okay but the problem is that the show clearly wants us to side with Barbara, and the writers purposely made Harvey a sleazy guy. I’m not against Harvey being susceptible but it needs to have good writing in order for that to work. They made this exact mistake in that other show Beware The Batman.
In Batman the cape crusade series 2 they probably kill the Joker off in the first ten minutes by Harley Quinn and she will become a female version of the Joker, ditching her jester costume.
Thank you for commenting on diversity not being responsible for a bad script. The writing is the make or break of a show, not the representation. I couldn’t get through the first five minutes and I’m glad I didn’t continue 😭 I hated how they made Two Face a jerk before the transformation, completely ruins what made him a good character (that he WAS good in the beginning)
I would say that what makes him great is that he can be both good AND bad. Even Btas despite portraying the character really well forgot that at times.
I recommend checking out the modern audio podcasts such as Batman the Audio Adventures and other DC titles. Surprisingly, these audio dramas are well written and the voices are amazing. It's a shame the same treatment is not given to shows like this.
It's like Bruce Timm is trolling us all, which wouldn't surprise me. This "Harley Quinn" version is even further from the character than the new 52 and that changed everything about her lol so for this to be worse says something. I don't understand why they never include her Jewish roots. They could've made any character who was of Asian decent instead of changing Harley. That's the least of the issue with her though lol the whole helping police and dating Montoya makes no sense to me. The character just isn't Harley Quinn. Just a different jester in the Batman universe, using her name. Only similarities. Without her original concept, she's literally everything and nothing lol her character is just anyone whoever wants her to be and its sad. Thank you for this video!
@@matane2465 the Yiddish phrases were a big clue but on top of that, Paul Dini said she was Jewish just like Arleen Sorkin was, and since Harley's made in her image, it was incorporated
I didn't mind Harley too much here, at least she was a rip off Deadpool or crazy hypersexual and trying to sleep with everything, but I think what Harley was in the series would have been better suited for a character like Ivy or Hugo strange. Also hoping for Joker and Harley to get together next season and Bruce Tim to not completely forget her Jewish roots, would be a shame if that's the case.
It seems like in this day and age, it's not just about selfishly taking over everything and making it all for only one or two people to enjoy anymore. It's about the active avoidance of research and knowledge wherever possible. For me, research is the most difficult, yes, but also the most enjoyable part of writing anything. Research doesn't have to be treated like a leper colony and cast out at the door. It needs to be proven that writers can do research and make the process fun. Making something fun is one of the first steps to eliminating the fear of it.
I feel it definitely had a lot of dead spots but, I say the show has many means for improvement. I also watched My Adventures with Superman Season 2 and I said the same thing about Season 1 and Season 2 was so much better. So, if this Batman show is going to have a season 2 I hope they learn from their mistakes. Yes and I agree with you on the DEI. It hits you right in the face but, it really doesn't affect the show in any way. It's the writing and characters themselves that tear it down.
It’s not bland: it’s just terrible I hate what they do with Batman himself: he’s always completely sidelined and while I certainly don’t mind Batman showing his limitations (we love him cus he’s human essentially) again the focus ends up being on other characters Don’t get me wrong I’m okay with the spotlight falling in other characters from time to time but in this case it’s ALL the time. I guess Batman gets to take center stage in the Penguin Subplot but that brings me to another problem: Batman is an asshole! Again, Batman and all other characters can be flawed but this show goes so extreme with that that it becomes a character assassination. He’s more violent, like the show teeters on trying to undermine Batman’s aversion to kill. Again, Batman in terms of demeanor is known to en flawed but he’s TOO much of a dick(especially to Alfred) and it does nothing for his character(especially when he’s getting sidelined). Last but not least he’s against affordable housing in Gotham: what the fuck?! He’s supposed to be a hero who wants to BENEFIT Gotham but instead he’s a fucking NIMBY! Anyway, I really didn’t like how they handled Catwoman or Two Face or Harley Quinn. And yes, the show is bland: it’s trying to mimic the animated series but in doing so so it does seem to have any heart and soul of its own I don’t want to descend upon Bruce Timm: hes done great work before and I don’t want to take that away from him because of THIS show. We’re in a different time and the guy only has so much control in this case given the limits streaming and a widespread lack of interest create. Furthermore, he could just be rusty it’s been decades since the animated series: it happens
See my main issue with the show is just pacing. When I was watching it felt weirdly disjointed throughout; there'd be a fantastic fight scene or other genuinely impressive bit, then we'd awkwardly go back to more "civilian" stuff to progress any overarching plots, then back to something actually good. That's really the main thing, some individual pieces are fantastic, but when strung together they're made actively worse. Like, I almost would have preferred this as just a series of shorts, because it's really stylish and dynamic, but lacking in substance.
My problem with the diversity is that it's set in the 1940s, but has the exact same politics as today. I have no problem with lesbians or lesbian characters in fiction, but there's straight up a lesbian kiss. In public. In the 1940's. And nobody Bats an eye (pun intentional). Why even set it in the 1940's if you're hardly gonna take anything from that time period?
What this version of harley does is that she takes wealthy "Irredeemable" people and breaks them down mentally to the base of their personality, so they are "Cured" . All costumes both the prisoners and herself wear are based off the 12 Jungian personality archetypes and the things she forces them to do are actually disturbing mental torture. I actually really like this version of harley, since it goes well with her psychology story, though I can see people prefering the old one.
bruce timm: guy who is terrible at writing dc stuff without paul dini's writing and forces his fetishes into EVERYTHING jj abrams: a guy who has no idea how to direct movies matt reeves: somebody who made a walmart version of batman begins and made the weakest batman movie (yeah whatever, fight me, the batman sucked) put all 3 together, and you get caped crusader.
19:20 I like what you said here, oddly enough the restrictions on cartoons back in the day led to so many creative ideas that make the stories so much more mature than shows that pretend to be adult with cuss words and gore
I just wanted to say, like you stated in the video, at the very least they didn't try to frame this as a faithful continuation that honors the '90s series, like X-Men "97". That makes the changes somewhat more excusable, because it's not tied to any existing lore and inhabits its own continuity.
2:00 It doesn't _make_ a show bad, it _implies_ a show will be bad. It's smoke. We're saying, "Look at that plume of smoke, we should check if the village burned down," and the response is "Smoke doesn't burn down villages!" We know that. But where there's smoke, there's fire. It doesn't take many examples to recognize the difference between the caliber of writer who could put a new spin on a character and make it work, and the caliber of writer who uses tokenization as a substitute for ability.
I enjoyed this video. I appreciated that it criticized various elements of the show without knocking them. Like, you can have an opinion while still being respectful and thoughtful about it, which this video is. And so you have a new subscriber. 👍👍And clearly you love Batman! Totally comes across. I have yet to watch the show myself. And I more than likely will. Some things I’ve heard about the show I’m not thrilled about but as a BatFan, I’d like to check it out. I do like what I’ve seen of the Clayface episode. Oh and I may have missed it, but I’d be interested in knowing your thoughts on that certain tease at the very end. Yeah I spoiled a bunch of stuff for myself lol.
I did give a chance to this "Serious Harley" when I heard that she was going to be Bruce's therapist. In my head, maybe the infatuation she has with the Joker in the original could be somehow flipped due to exposition with Bruce's real feelings, maybe she even figuring out he's Batman, but instead of trying to aid in the psychological way, she ends up admiring him and desiring to help in crime-fighting, but fundamentally misunderstanding his goals. Instead, they just gave her screentime for 3 episodes (not at all enough time to develop a character), made her inconsistent and with little to none motivation. I was a bit suspicious when she mentioned her college professor's name being "Crane", but I suppose this is just an easter-egg that will never lead anywhere. The other thing that bummed me was Onomatopoea; I was hoping he'd be depicted as a menace he is in comics, but he just turned out to be silly, and his men provided more of a threat than himself. I do think he can be adapted for audiovisual media, but now I get why his creator doesn't like when they use him.
Sorry but i respectfully disagree. Batman: Caped Crusader being it's own series and universe that is different works. Introduces lesser known villains and uses known ones in new ways. We discover Bruce's past really well and get to see a good balance of Batman and Bruce's lives. I do disagree with the Xmen 97 quote too because the show is very clearly a continuation from the first, but it has such little referances to direct stories for newcomers. Respectfully
I liked that Barbara cuffed herself to a person with a damaged psyche that was more than ok with hurting anyone that even looked at him negatively. She saw how quickly Harvey can snap at anyone and she even saw him stomping a cops face off RIGHT in front of her and she still thought it was a good idea to stay next to him at all times. She definitely had plot armor especially if this Two-Face was acting dangerously without using the coin.
Now I know why Roxy Rocket was in the original series. I didn't "hate" her. But she was just one step above the villains on the original Superfriends cartoon.
I also wanna point out? Bruce Timm without Paul Dini is how you get these intense yet focused stories. They appeal to a few but its not gonna be a show that everyone thinks is great.
Comics are a visual medium. You should be able to recognize the characters immediately. It shouldn’t be this thing where you’re guessing who that is. If you can’t recognize the characters, they failed.
It's god awful. It literally gave me a headache. Oh there's nothing Reeves like in here. He was definitely that kid in a group project that does nothing while the others do everything.
They lost me with Fat Alfred. Seriously. What's up with that? He's been thin ever since he showed up as a chauffeur in a 1943 movie serial. Okay, fine, he was on the stout side in his first appearance in the comics (wearing a deerstalker hat like Sherlock Holmes), but that got fixed pretty fast. And Penguin as a female nightclub singer did not help. I know it's boring, doing the same characters, over and over. So do something else. This is what Batman is, and you can only change it around so much without ruining it. Not interested, not watching, and I have nothing but reverence for Bruce Timm. J.J. Abrams, not so much. Born to ruin franchises, that one.
@@dubbingsync I'll upvote the sentiment, but different isn't better. Or worse. It's up to the people making whatever it is to make different better. They didn't. This sucks. It's different for the sake of being different, not for the sake of better expressing the characters. And FYI, I don't like Colin Farrell's Penguin either. I think he's an interesting variation on Tony Soprano. Not as good as the original. And not The Penguin in any way shape or form. If you aren't going to write good dialogue for Alfred, then don't use him at all. I've seen many different versions of the Bat-verse. Nobody's seen them all. Nobody lives that long. I liked some a lot better than others, and I wouldn't put any of them at the top of my list of favorite fictions. This isn't on my list at all, because it sucks. It makes me sorry I spent any of my limited time remaining on earth checking it out. It lowers my very high opinion of Bruce Timm, but of course the real blame appends to J.J. Abrams. As it so often does. As I once put it, his mission in life is to ruin every good franchise ever, and he's made a lot of progress there. ;)
Correction: I got it wrong saying this show had mostly original villains, it actually just used lesser known villains from the comics. I was unfamiliar with Nocturna, but I should've recognized Gentleman Ghost. I guess I was just checked out at that point.
''Look, Bats, when I was a doctor, I was always listening to other people's problems. Then I met Mr. J, who listened to me for a change and made everything fun.''
~ Harley Quinn
I guess you could call this terrible not really Harley Quinn an original version.
Nocturna I get, she barley gets used.
It’s based on golden age era of Batman the detective comics
I don’t blame you, it really saddened me because I was that one random nerd who wanted to see Onomatopoeia in a Batman show or movie! 😂
In my opinion everything was wrong on Harley; race swapped, personality swapped, different outfit, different background... She was, in effect, another character in completely.
I’m real sad about this, because the idea of a Batman series set in the 1940’s is not a doomed concept. Think about the cool 40’s, wartime tech Batman could have used. This could have been an opportunity to tell stories with real old school Batman characters. They could have given a spotlight to villains like Hugo Strange, Tiger Shark, Dr Death and Mad Monk, instead of rehashing Harley Quinn for the hundredth time.
My biggest complaint is that you can’t “modernise” the world of Batman and also set the show in the 40’s?! It makes no sense!
Thissss👍
I didn't mind the Harley episode but Poison Ivy or Hugo Strange would have been a better fit.
@@Omnicrush333I think it would have been a good idea for the writers to stick with characters created before 1950. (So Ivy is out) We could have started the series off with 1940’s era mobster Joker, with an arc leading up to Hugo Strange or Tiger Shark being revealed as the true mastermind.
Don't forget Penny Plunderer.
Look up Batman 1919-1939. It does a much better job at depicting a batverse in that era
Honestly this made me realizes how much of a team effort BTAS was. Everyone from the voice actors to the music had a part in the success to the show and we were wrong to give Bruce timm more credit than he deserves ( not that he doesn't deserve any).
Also helps the people BTAS are actually talented and actually cared about the characters.
It's probably a good thing that Bruce Timm had very little control over BTAS.
@@ClassicHarleyQuinnBTAS was great but some characters were done dirty. Killer Croc was turned to a one dimensional thug instead of being the tragic sympathetic monster he is, but to be honest i may be biased since Killer Croc is my favorite DC villain. Hugo Strange was pretty one dimensional too since they didn’t focus on the whole “wanting to be a better Batman” aspect of his character and he wasn’t particularly cold and methodical like he usually is. Catwoman was not done that well, she was more serious, less carefree and confident than she usually is and funnily enough other shows that came after BTAS did a better job portraying her more faithfully (Batman Brave and the Bold and The Batman 2004) managed to make her more of a fun and energetic character she usually is. A more obscure villain, The Werewolf, was done dirty since in the comic he’s from he was pretty tragic with his lycanthropy and only took the serum that would eventually turn him in a wolfman in the hopes of curing him, but in BTAS he just took the compound to basically cheat at sports since he was a Olympic athlete, so they stripped the tragic element away from him. I like BTAS as much as the next guy but it’s not the perfect Batman adaptation, so it doesn’t need to be placed on a pedestal.
He gets credit for art style, THATS IT, especially after this show. The art direction is great, the writing is hot dog water. Nothing like BTAS nothing like JL or JLU nothing like SAS
Give that to Paul Dini and the other writers.
I agree, not to mention I can tell Bruce Timm wanted Barbara as the main character, why? Because he simps for her constantly whenever he’s in the writer’s chair. Check out other projects he’s been involved in that involve the character.
JJ Abrams has never understood the source material for anything he has done. He doesn’t know Star Trek. He doesn’t know Star Wars. And he certainly doesn’t know Batman.
100% agree. I remember at one point I thought he was good but know years later. I know he knows less then he thinks...
But, but he wrote a Spiderman comic 😂
Yep, talk about failing up.
Matt Reeves's The Batman also didn't understand Batman and also was uber boring. He's as guilty as Jar Jar, but there's too much Reeves shilling lately
@@nrdscottI’m not saying this is the case for trek, but keeping something alive but it fucking sucks isn’t better than just leaving it alone with just the classic shit. Star Wars would 100 percent be better if Disney just left it alone and didn’t keep it going with dogshit and just had the og Lucas films. Same goes for lord of the rings, even more so imo.
I think they should have used Hugo stange instead of Harley
I was thinking Mad Hatter would fill that slot. And thats the real issue. If your new Character dose nothing...new, what good are they?
My thoughts exactly. I'm watching her role, and I'm like, they already have a character that does exactly this.
EXACTLY!!!
Yesss
Yeah hugo strange in arkham city he know everything about the criminals in the tapes seriously he gets no love hugo strange would make sense as the main villain over harley quinn... Without the joker
Bruce Timm mixed with JJ is a recipe for disaster. Old heads like me remember when Paul Dini, Alan Burnett and Dwayne Mcduffie (RIP) were the shining beacons in DC animation.
True!
Shut up
Thank you for giving Mcduffie his flowers
DC just hasn't been the same with Dwanye.
Bruce Timm left to his own devices (no Paul Dini writing etc) is really bad.
(Edit: i should note Darwyn Cook was one of the primary writers along with Paul Dini for the good Bruce Timm stuff, but he pretty much always had good writers connected to his stuff until around 2013ish, and it has been mostly really bad since.)
@@BaithNa yeah actually Dwayne McDuffie is arguably more important than either of those (I was actually thinking of him when I said Darwyn Cooke but both were involved)
I do love Darwyn Cooke’s art style. And I did thoroughly enjoy The New Frontier.
A lot like Niel Druckmann without Bruce Staley
@@robchuk4136 yes yes we get it enough about fucking Druckmann there’s an entire subreddit that does nothing but talk about him
See, I’ve got no problem with going back to the Golden Age. The problem is this show isn’t willing to commit to being a 1940s Batman show. Instead of trying to act like it’s the second coming of BTAS, why not try and make the Batman equivalent to the Fleischer Superman cartoons?
I’m serious, just make a series of extremely well-animated 2D shorts that capture the essence of Golden Age Batman the same way the Fleischer Superman shorts did. It shouldn’t be that hard (okay, it might be a bit hard given how little money Zaslav wants to give to animated projects). If they did that, they’d have an absolute win on their hand.
But they chose JJ and Timm, and they reaped what they sowed.
That would’ve been awesome. I was hoping more for something like that 75th anniversary animated short they did. They should’ve totally pivoted to something more unique and akin to the Fleischer cartoons and fitting the time period. The art style is also way too crisp and clean looking in my opinion. They should’ve gone black and white too imo. Just do anything to differentiate it from the DCAU in terms of art style. Give us something fresh that isn’t trying to bank on our nostalgia for BTAS style-wise.
The don't have the talent to do that
To his credit, Zaslav tried to save us from the embarrassment of this show. Makes me wonder if he was right about the Batgirl movie, too...
Oooooo
When I first saw the trailer I was hoping it would have been a 1940s noir style show bringing the detective part of Batman to light.
"You can run me, you can starve me, you can beat me and you can kill me. Just don't bore me."
-Gunnery Sergeant Thomas Highway, Heartbreak Ridge
A modern take on a superhero that doesn't understand the superhero? You don't say. That almost never happens 🙄
Watchmen and its consequences
How is it bad. The stories are solid, the references and cameos are solid, the aesthetic is solid, the characters just a bit underwhelming. Istg, people like you have lost common sense in favor of identity politics
@@MisterSlimee ....please tell me you're not talking about the new batman series, it's utter garbage.
@@joshuajackson5203 why
@@MisterSlimee If you have to ask that it means you're not a fan of Batman anyway. Which is why you can be so dismissive about a lot of things, even calling the story good and I think that's ok. If you like the show cool, but for us actual fans... its not scooby doo remake bad, but for a batman show? it's not good.
''Look, Bats, when I was a doctor, I was always listening to other people's problems. Then I met Mr. J, who listened to me for a change and made everything fun.''
~ Harley Quinn
What is that quote from?
@@EternityKingdomsHeadHoncho the animated series
@@EternityKingdomsHeadHonchoSpecifically, the Mad Love episode that tells the origin story for Harley Quinn.
Caped Crusader; Guest Starring Batman.
Facts!!!!!
What’s wrong with this? They wanted to establish side characters in the first season.
@@TheParagonIsDead Are we here for them or for Batman?
@@kazekamiha what you’re there for doesn’t mean anything, it’s about their vision.
Wait for the second season, I bet Batman will get more screen time.
@@TheParagonIsDead "what you’re there for doesn’t mean anything, it’s about their vision"
Then why would I watch it if what I'm there for doesn't mean anything? You just made my point for me.
I don't know if it's just me, but I say Bruce Timm shouldn't touch the Batman franchise with a ten foot pole without supervision from some writers and directors who actually understand Batman... Lest we forget the horrible Killing Joke adaptation. I still get PTSD flashbacks at the mere mention of it...
It’s not just you.
Killing Joke was fine. Not anyone's fault you didn't skip the first 30 minutes like everyone else.
@@Drums_of_Liberation Bro, who the f is going to skip the first thirty minutes of a movie that they've never seen before? Also, if you half to skip the first third of a movie, how can that movie be called "fine"?
@@Drums_of_Liberationit is not fine
The Killing Joke was already a crappy story. People worship it because an Ent wrote it therefore it is given a pass...
When i was watching the "Harley Quinn" Episode i was thinking to myself this story would be better if Hugo Strange or Scarecrow was the villain.
Exactly
It's weird how they changed Barbara Gordon into a woman of color and then she proceeds to be redundant or Renee. These attempts to make Barbara Gordon a bigger player in the lore always seem to make her less interesting.
Also Harley Quinn should never be Batman's Psychiatrist. They do not have that dynamic. Hugo Strange and Jonathan Crane are clearly better candidates for this role. They just chose Harley Quinn because she's a "pillar" apparently.
Harley as Bruce's psychiatrist could work in the sense of what if it was Bruce she interviews instead of The Joker in like a one off else worlds type of story. Just one of those what if stories.
This is how I feel about James Gordon’s currant situation, who feels like he’s being written as the “black token character”. It sucks, because we have established black characters (Lucius Fox, Crispus Allen etc.).
Harley Quinn being Batman’s psychiatrist has worked good in Harley Quinn the animated series. Mainly in season 3 in where she helps Bruce deal with his trauma. Sure he got arrested during the Season 3 Finale, but Bruce said that maybe prison would be good since it will help him deal with all of his trauma. And besides, he wanted the people of Gotham to know that there are consequences in this city, even for him.
@@samflood5631 I strongly dislike that show, I haven't seen that season and don't intend to at all. What I mean is that she never meets The Joker instead it's Bruce she meets.
@@ClassicHarleyQuinn Funnily enough, it seems like they just saw the Harley Quinn show in the later season, where she does end up becoming Bruce's psychiatrist. The episode where it actually explored the idea of having Harley help Bruce was actually good and worked I felt, of course it also helps the show is more comedic, but it still worked given what happens in the very episode to have the newly explored dynamic. So yeah, Caped Crusader seemed like it wanted to copy its homework but without the much-needed context it needed for such a dynamic to take place which the Harley Quinn show not only did first, but better.
Why must all that is art in the 2020s be controlled by people who despise the source material so badly who twist it out of pure spite
The world doesn't make sense to me anymore, its like seeing your playful grandpa slowly turn insane and you can't do anything to stop it
Art has become background noise
It's because the industry has become less and less meritocratic over the years
Except there's usually some scientific reason when our grandpa's go insane, this, this makes absolutely 0 sense, not even from the corporate standpoint cause we all know this crap doesn't make money
@@thomasoveracker1115 Sometimes what mainstream entertainment does seems so nonsensical that I start to think that those theories about this all being part of the corpos farming social credit to store away for a new social order makes more sense. But then I remember other times in history where people in power have been horrendously out of touch and not with some hidden agenda and then the mental merry-go-round of 'why are they doing this??' starts again.
"The ghost character isn't fleshed out."
Well, he was well developed in Brave and the Bold series by contrast
I see what you did there. 😉
He wasn't I'm more ways then one.
she also seemed to not know he was an old batman villain which is odd. All the villains in this show (even firebug) are old batman villains from the golden / silver / bronze ages
🥁
Making Batman a side character in his own show is certainly a choice. Despite critics loving it, because of course those shills do, the audience hasn't been as receptive and for good reason. We've had better. People need to stop dropping their standards just because it wasn't as bad as the last. The DCAU gave us great content, and these iterations are not up to that standard. The Harley Quinn show, MAWS, Caped Crusader, etc, not uo to par. Them not being the worst thing in the world doesn't then make them great.
@@BaithNaI wouldn't really call any of those shows excellent as opposed to catering to an audience that has little to standards so because of that they can do/write whatever they want and no one would fully bat an eye
If critics love something, it’s definitely bad.
@@BaithNa
My Adventures with Superman
Is not part of the DCAMU
It's a standalone series
Besides
The DCMAU
Was erased
Thank you. I know Harley Quinn has it's fans, but I feel that could be a much better show than it is. And I appreciate calling out MAWS, too. Are we so desperate for Superman to be a hero again that we'll accept him as a total insecure, awkward beta male? It's like Clark Kent is both roles
@@BaithNaMy Adventures with Superman is just ok, but it's depiction of villains is far from excellent
How tf do you mess up this badly?!
It’s Batman for Pete’s sake!!!
You’d be surprised how many people misunderstand Batman.
@@Samuel.Strange.SupremeEspecially DC itself.
JJ Abrahms...
Ever read the "Insurance will handle it" in the middle of a riot line?
@@Jetblast01explains it all
there is a SEVERE Lack of good writers making good stories...
What about Greg Rucka?
A way Batman Caped Crusader could have worked with a black Jim Gordon and Barbara Gordon is by not making black Jim Gordon police commissioner. Back in the day there was a comic, Batman: Year One. It dealt with Batman in his first year crimefighting and dealing with a corrupt city government and police force who were in on the urban decay with the mob.
A 30s-40s Batman could have run with that and had Batman being effective in cleaning up crime syndicates and mobsters in opposition to the Gotham elite's wishes. Where a black Jim Gordon could have come into this is by maybe having Gordon be a leader of the Gotham dockworkers, or warehouse workers, or general working class group who the Gotham city government dismisses as a nonentity.
That could have been an interesting dichotomy. The elite hate Batman as a vigilante for ruining their corrupt graft while the blue collar working class like Batman for taking out the criminals no matter who they were or who they were connected to Downtown. That could have worked for subtly acknowledging 1940s racism while not making it obvious and having black Jim Gordon be like Batman's pulse to keep track of what was going on in the street.
That could have worked as a good kind of duality to explore. Rich Bruce Wayne is completely out of his element as a vigilante and who he associates with to be effective as Batman, but learns and evolves and takes on the criminal element from the bottom street level up, following the connections to the bosses in their fitted suits and offices and high society parties.
Instead we got this.
Ohhhh i like this idea
Gordon was a cop before chief. He could’ve gotten a promotion that he was deserved despite the color change. Bar. I guess she’s ok. Penguin hard to swallow. Everybody else is so muted. I feel like they’re going to ruin the real villains and characters later on =\
That takes actual creativity though. The series The Batman cartoon was kind of lacking in some of the versions of it's villains, but having Clayface be Bruce's old friend was interesting to me.
But... why? This series isn't actually set in the '40s, it was just used as an aesthetic. There's no need to make a whole deal out of ethnicity or sexuality or whatever. Honestly, I just assumed that Jim (and, as a consequence, Barbara) are dark-skinned because the last actor who has played the character is Jeffrey Wright, so I don't see the deal; but even if it that's not the case, and the ethnicity-swap was really just done to get diversity point (which is not a good thing), that doesn't affect the quality of the story at all, it would just be a bad character design decision made because of bad reasons.
Its pretty bad when the last scene of the show, a one minute brief glimpse of The Joker experimenting with his toxin on victims he kidnapped, is more compelling than the rest of the series combined.
Its refreshing to hear a reviewer that focuses on the writing and characters themselves. Like I do not care what race Gordon is as long as his story line is good and they keep key character points.
always care for cheap race swaps and gender bends, its exactly why the writing sucks, it was secondary to pushing agenda
You make an excellent point. Race/gender bending a character could just be an artificial controversy for the show to hide behind.
I honestly feel it's done for those cynical reasons
Oh no, Barbara Gordon got Velma treatment!
She's so awful. Completely different character. Not even the red hair is the same
lol true
We can thank Matt Reeves for Race swapping Jim Gordon. And the actor wasn't even that impressive there. With no outrage, they'll do it more often.
Do you sensitive losers ever NOT get tired of being offended by colors on animated characters 💀
@@emma_luce_1123
What's awful about her
We now live in a world where the Superman cartoon airing is better then the Batman one…
Only saw the first two episodes and I'm done. I kinda hate it when the "new and original" version of the character just means making them less complex. From what I saw, both Harvey Dent and Bullock were just dickheads, instead of the more nuanced portrayals they got in the past
@@Return_of_Godzillas_Revenge
Bullock
Has periods in the comics were he is
Corrupted
nuanced portrayals that they got over years. not in 2 episodes.
@@raziel7148 I never said otherwise. The problem is the show's just uninteresting so I don't even care to watch more to see if they eventually bother developing them.
I gave up when they put Harvey’s disfigurement on the wrong side of his face.
It also wasn't exactly half amd half either.
I gave up when I saw the awful personality they gave him. 😢
He went from one of my favorite characters to a total douchebag
I didn't mind that; he was a different character for it and rather then go from good to corrupted he went from corrupt to turning around, maybe why there's a swap on the face.
@@concernedgamer isn’t that the point? Since in this version harvey was already corrupt and his scarred side gave him a conscience?
I didn’t like that concept either. From what I knew of the character his tragedy was his fall from obsession with cleaning up the criminal element to becoming a part of that element.
Respect to WB at least, they didnt want to touch this and sold the streaming rights to it.
They probably now that this will have same fates like SS game.
I mean, it's a huge jump from "This show is bad" to "the WB execs have showcased such a good understanding of writing quality - unlike how they did with every other production both in the past and in the present - that they decided to sell the show and not associate themselves with it due to some moral highground they usually don't display".
Being honest I hated that they portrayed Bruce as a narcissistic abuser of Alfred who talks to him only in the batman voice. How could that happen WHEN ALFRED RAISED HIM and GAVE HIM HIS CODE? There is not one piece of Batman medium where Bruce has EVER been disrespectful or dehumanized because he knows Alfred is the only family he has. As a matter of fact - there have been instances where Alfred has DISCIPLINED adult Bruce for being rude to guests or even members of the Bat family so seeing him be outright disrespectful and snippy with Alfred REALLY comes off as out of pocket and unwarranted
My guess is the show does not want to portray any rich white men as decent human beings
“Abuser”… how was he abusing Alfred? He treated him like how anyone would treat their butlers, he was worried about Alfred dying and did you not notice this Batman is very closed off and you know. Went through development he is learning to open up to people. And if you want Batman actually abuse Alfred is called All star Batman and Robin boy wonder.
There is no Bruce Wayne ONLY BATMAN. Until the end of the season where he starts to call him by he’s first name.
As with most modern updates of franchises I loved, I've skipped it. I have no more interest in seeing franchises I loved undermined and warped for ''modern audiences''.
I wish I skipped it.
I did and i aint lookin back, save me arleen sorkin Harley!
I watched it not realizing how updated for modern audiences it was. I remember seeing the teaser and being so excited because it looked like we were getting a continuation of the animated series or atleast inspired by it. It wasn’t until my friend told me it released already that we decided to watch it. The show had some good aspects like two face learning to be a better man and a Harley that wasn’t always cracking jokes and being annoying. But everything else really brought the show down for me just leaving me disappointed. I expected a traditional Batman story but instead we got Batman for twitter.
Suicide Squad Isekai is probably the most on point Harley we've gotten in years.
Right? Lol
True lol
and that still sucks
No it’s not lmfao
Too bad still nobody's gonna watch it because Suicide Squad is a default L
I give it a 3/10, which is pretty on par for shows these days
The music is disappointing. Especially when you compare the music to Batman the animated series. That show had masterful music!
"I just finished Batman Caped Crusader" - I'm sorry for your suffering.
There's a lot that I can forgive. That doesn't make these things good, just sins that I can at least forgive, but what I can't forgive is that show barely shows us Batman. Seriously, for a vigilante that dawns the costume every night, we rarely get to see Batman doing his thing. He's not even much of a detective. Everyone else does the detective work for him, essentially. If I wanted to watch a Batman show without Batman, I would watch Gotham...not Gotham Knights, that show was hot dog shit. It's called Batman the Caped Crusader, show us Batman damn it!
I, as a huge BTAS fan, have no interest in this show. Especially it's version of the characters. I will however be checking out the Nocturne episode so thank you for the recommendation!
I have watched the show, it's bad, literally got a headache and now going to sleep it off.
That is episode 8 by the way, decent episode and the best out of them all but it's not great.
@@harleybtasfan90s
Watch six too
It great
@@ClassicHarleyQuinn glad I didn't bother then lol yeah that was the only one worth the watch
@@harleybtasfan90s Yea, definitely not a recommend.
Thank you!
People exaggerate the diversity in this show. It’s not egregious as they say. There’s even a black corrupt cop. Diversity is not an issue here.
What is a problem is how dull everything is. Bruce is my least favorite version of this character. We keep following the GCP rather than Batman. Most of the villains are enthralling.
I’m surprised that people who created BTAS made this. Because it has none of the heart.
This show isn’t terrible, but it isn’t great. It was just a waste of time, I can hardly remember the episodes despite it coming out recently. I wish I never saw it and invested my time in something else.
I don't like that they race change Barbara or gender swap penguin
@@josephthegamer157 Bruh, I don’t care. There’s like 50 incarnations of these characters being white. Them being a different race every blue moon ain’t gonna kill you.
I wish they focused more on more obscure villains rather than rehashing major villains to try to be different.
The one good episode that you mentioned sounds like a never made episode of Batman the animated series where they planned on making an episode with the character nocturna but couldn’t because of the restrictions involved even with a few compromises.
All point of modern Harley Quinn is "she is not with Joker anymore, and you WILL understand that (even if she still wear clown suit, still villain and dont want to become normal person, dont even try to.)"
I don’t remember which episode it was, but there is a scene where Bruce is going at it on a punching bag in his gym, and I couldn’t help but think about a similar scene in the BTAS episode “Appointment in Crime Alley”
Getting a little technical here, but the animation of that scene looked super fluid because of those extra in between frames. There was also plenty of squash and stretch in the bag as it was flooding under the weight of Bruce’s punches. The sounds also made each punch feel heavy and it progressively picked up the more we hear Roland Dagget talking on the tv in the background. One could envision Bruce wanting to bop Dagget in the face after hearing him disparage the inner cities of Gotham.
Then there this version. It doesn’t help that the design for these characters look flat and dull, but there was no weight to those punching animations. The punches themselves have very little in between frames and they looked choppy and weak. Also the posing for some of these punches looked weird.
It’s a long analysis on a short scene, but that scene to me was indicative of how flat and stiff the designs and the animation looks. It looked cheap and dull and the colors looked muddy, devoid of life. There’s a flatness to this show that continues to persist me the more I watch it. I’m on episode 10 and it just feels boring so far.
Yes to all of this! And we can go even further and talk about the audio design (or lack thereof) where it just doesn't sound like characters are in the spaces they are in. Not sure if it's a lack of ambient noise or what, but the soundscape of this show also feels flat
Thank you, I don't know why More people don't pay attention to animation. We can do so much better . But companies don't respect animation (invincible season 2) and people don't know any better. They see imagine. They think it good.
@@robchuk4136 There were definitely some scenes where ambient noise would’ve made sense to be present. When Bruce is in the restaurant with Harvey and it sounds like he’s talking in a megaphone. There’s some VERY light sound in the background but it just didn’t feel realistic.
Also, the shading in this show is so lazy too.
@@Mattyboy-dn4oo episode 3
With Catwoman
@@ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΑ-ε1ω thanks 👍🏾
Harley Quinn isn't Harley Quinn. She's Hugo Strange in a bad HQ disguise.
Thank u
I think it would have been alright to just have Harley be a phyciatrist, and instead have someone like Hugo Strange for an early villain. Hugo would certainly fit the 40s aesthetic.
in other words, the original series is king. Im gonna stick to that and ignore this shows existence.
I wish I did.
As they say. If you can't imagine your version of Batman comforting a dying child, that's not Batman, that's the Punisher in a funny hat.
Of they are gonna give Batman a gun. By law the Shadow must appear to sue him for copyright.
They also made their Jason stand-in red haired. Which proves to me they didnt actually read his pre-crisis comics. Since he was strawberry blonde. The red hair was a Morrison Crime. And while its nice he got screen time, he had a strong mother and son relationships with Nocturna in Red Skies. So its kinda lame that Kerri is the focus.
And they Butchered Natasha/Natalia again! Can they stop destroying my fav pre-crisis villian! Her being a mother to robin was a big part of her storyline and now shes ok with sucking the life out of them? And physio Nightslayer is the voice of reason? Ick, i hate it. We get one good Batman eps and it shits all over my fav vill.
There us also some really bed continuity breaks that really pulled me out. By the order of events and movements, Stephanie is laying one the floor in the same spot where Anton is crushed by the shelf. Its messy and lazy
They completely changed Nocturna! She’s also like a teenager in this version, so I can understand her not being a seductress vampire as that would be very odd for a teenaged character. But at this point she seemed completely different
@PunchandJewelee90 she wasnt even a vamp till n52, that was just DC giving her the 'Morrison butchers Talia' treatment. If it wasnt for the names and eps titles shes a completely new character
They HATE Harley Quinn. They're destroying her character even worse in any new installment. Probably because original Harley was popular amongst men.
I wonder if that’s why they keep turning her lesbian.
technically this harley was originally what the creators first had in mind for harley, but dc rejected it because it was to dark. So it’s cool that he was able to bring his original vision in a show.
2016 Harley was the most popular amongst men. Still trash.
@@Ivan_950 according to Paul Dini (Harleys true creator) Harley was based on Arleen Sorkins personality, so there was never a plan to make her dark and gritty. That´s nonsense!
@@shred79 they even retconned her to be Joker's victim instead of choosing the evil path by herself
No disrespect but JJ Abrams is the kind of guy who is living off of his past glories or notoriety. It's obvious from his last few projects that he does not understand the lore of what he's working on. He thinks he can just come in and put his own spin in the canonical world but the problem is that world was filled with passion. You can tell from his Works nowadays that he's just in it for a money grab
Everything JJ touches turns to sh!t
Bruce Timm turns out to be a Con Artidt by disrespecting Batman's lore and Rogue's gallery with Penguin!
@@BaithNa im not surprised. I always expected thos to Happen.
@@BaithNa Hey, give Alan Burnett some credit, too!
The whole gender bent Penguin thing felt like a J.J. Abrams thing.
@@snowbunnie1113 It really is
I have no idea how genderbent Penguin was disrespectful when there was zero difference between her and regular Penguin other than boobs.
Renee was an addition to the original series. She didn't replace someone else. That, IMO, is why she worked. They could very easily have added a different Defense Attorney, and left Barbara alone, used Hugo Strange instead of an unrecognizable Harleen. Used a different character than Peguin, perhaps the similar Fish Mooney in an animated form. There are ways that work, but their INTENTION was spite.
Still better that make Bárbara a clone of Stephanie Brown.
Personally, I think Batman: Arkham Origins has a better depiction of a year-two Batman becoming more open to Alfred and learning to work with allies instead of doing everything on his own.
Penguin not only was genderbent but was given a few feet too. That's wild 😂
Something I noticed immediately was the animation. Background characters barely move, even the speaking characters in foreground sometimes barely move. I thought it was frozen more than once. It reminds me of really old Space Ghost budget animation. Is this intentional? I dont understand lol
Animation in some episodes was VERY VERY cheap. One early episode when batman walks across a room, its literally like three frames of animation.
I actually love Roxy Rocket... the thing is, no writers seem to get how to make her work. And she doesn't seem to fit with the dark and dreary world of modern DC comics. I'm actually glad that they didn't stick her in this show, they would have sucked all the fun out of her as they did with 'Harley Quinn'.
You definitely said what I was struggling to put into words, especially for Harley. I was like: "Why are you doing this?... Why? WHY?!"
Batman deserves far better. _FAR_ better than the way he's being currently treated. We're talking about a character with nearly a *century* of literary and artistic pedigree behind him. And how do they handle such lineage...?
"DuRR, hOw GaY cAn We MaKe ThIs?!!1?!!"
We want the real Batman. The real James Gordon. The real Harley Quinn. The real Barbara Gordon. The real Harvey Dent.
Not this.
Not whatever slop Caped Crusader is. It's a lot of things... all of it bad...
... and none of it Batman.
@@OtterloopB about as gay as you are
I think they are still trying to get out of BTAS's shadow after 2 decades, so it's understandable it's not gonna be the definitive Batman cause they're going all kind of experimental with it. Some work (That Batman) some don't (this show) but I'd rather them stop trying to make everything Batman for once.
If Bruce Timm thinks this is a love letter to Batman TAS, why does it look like hate mail?
Can't believe a "tumblr show" like my adventures with superman is better than this one. (MAWS is good though)
Hey now dont be calling MAWS a tumblr show that aint cool. Its so much better than that.
Thank you for your thoughtful review/analysis of this series, Jester. The "Nocturne" episode was my favorite as well, especially with how creatively the writer adapted Nocturna, which was a villain Bruce Timm planned to adapt in the original DCAU but was unable to because of censorship laws in the '90s. As for the other characters and storylines, I thought this was an interesting reinvention of the Batman mythos and gave us intriguing new versions of the characters, but beyond that...nothing truly engaging. The animation, art style and music are amazing, as to be expected from Warner Bros. Animation and a new Batman series, but this lacks the magic and quality of the '90s Batman series. Admittedly, I tend to elevate Bruce Timm above Paul Dini due to my misconception that animation and art requires more effort than writing, but I have to keep in mind that writing is what truly makes a series work. Anyhow, I'm glad we finally got to see this series and it did give us a colorful '40s noir era reinvention of Batman and his cast of characters, but I don't think it will be remembered as one of the "best" Batman series. Ultimately, it's just a new interpretation of Batman and seeing it like that, it was fun to see this new version of the character.
Timm is a hack without Dini like Kane was a hack without Finger
No, Tim's artsyle visually defined the dcau. It's his signature art style.
@@anthonykarnes6804
You know what he meant trash.
@@anthonykarnes6804 true but that is all timm had going for himself, if it wasn't for paul dini and the team behind the dcau, it would have failed badly, good animation can only take you so far.
like look at the masters of the universe show from kevin smith, pretty great animation, but the writing is awful.
Why race-swap the Gordons? Jim and Barbara have always been Caucasian, so going out of their way to brownwash them doesn't seem that great; for some reason, whitewashing characters is always seen as "racist" and "hateful" and the like, but brownwashing them is perfectly fine, if not somehow _beneficial_ - why does this stupid double standard exist? Neither whitewashing or brownwashing should be at all acceptable - and since the goal of brownwashing is DiVeRsiTy points, might I remind DC that they've long since introduced Lucius Fox to Batman's crew? A black man who's effectively Bruce's right-hand man, managing Wayne Industries and his secret Bat-tech?
Barbara also being much older than normal, and being a DA instead of a librarian, are also very strange decisions.
Additionally, why bring back Harley fucking Quinn YET AGAIN? So sick of this stupid goddamn character; sure, she became popular after Batman: TAS, but does she really need to be in practically EVERYTHING since? Give her a rest, for once, DC!
Oh, and I just realised they gender-swapped the Penguin. WHY. So bizarre and stupid; Penguin's always been a short, fat guy with a monocle, and he should have stayed that way; gender-swapping characters, just like race-swapping, is lazy and nonsensical in my mind. Just NO.
If this show does the same thing as The Batman by making Barbara a Bat before Dick Grayson (who, from what I can tell, is still quite young)...then this show will have no appeal for me. I just can't stand Batgirl (or Batwoman) as a character, as she's completely redundant and extraneous compared to the classic Dynamic Duo pairing of Batman & Robin; when it comes to fighting and crime-busting, that's always been a man's role, what with fit and healthy guys far outstripping girls in physical strength and stamina (due to natural sexual dimorphism). Batgirl's never had a place here, in my book; her best role is as Oracle, supporting the Duo with info, rather than somehow beating up thugs physically stronger than her.
@@PokeMaster22222 gordon was already race swapped before this in Matt Reeves movie
@@PokeMaster22222 Lucius Fox is rarely used and isnt that well known or popular beyond the Morgan Freeman version to be fair
@@PokeMaster22222 your entire reason for why Batgirl is redundant is literally just sexism lmao
Is Wonder Woman redundant too because of Superman? Or Supergirl redundant because of him?
Your comment there isn’t even a good reason beyond “ crime fighting should only be a mans job” dude people in the 50s had more progressive thinking than you when it comes to comics lmao
@@PokeMaster22222 she only became oracle because she was crippled
And there was always replacements so there is always a batgirl
@@chandlerburse Gordon might have been race-swapped before, once or twice, but that still falls into the same discussion anyway - why is race-swapping a character who is *almost always* white into being brown ever acceptable, when vice-versa never is? He, and his daughter, have been white in almost every appearance, and are most well-known as Caucasian characters.
Gordon, and Barbara, were Caucasian in Batman: TAS, in most Batman movies, in Batman: Arkham, and most comics. Suddenly making them brown, for no reason aside from "Diversity", is shallow, unnecessary, and inherently racist.
Also, Lucius Fox has appeared before, BTW, making a notable appearance in the Batman: Arkham games, as well as the 2014-2019 Gotham TV show, and the Batman: The Enemy Within game made by Telltale Games. Sure, he's not as widely used as the Gordons, but he's still around.
Next, the part about Batgirl? Yeah, that's solely my opinion, though it's not necessarily "sexist" as it is true in reality - think for a moment; why are sports still sex-segregated? Because the physical baselines and standards are different between the two sexes. Adult men, particularly those used to exercise and fitness, do indeed have an advantage over women, and especially teenaged girls (like Batgirl is usually portrayed as).
So it's quite unbelievable, in my mind, that Batgirl could outfight various thugs and stuff. Granted, this IS fiction, but still breaks the suspension of disbelief for me.
Also, I mentioned I found Barbara's alternate persona as Oracle to be quite inspired, as it provided her a way to still support her teammates even from a distance, even whilst disabled - making her actually unique and distinct from the rest of the Batfamily.
As for your inane question "is Wonder Woman redundant because of Superman?" and the like? While they do share some similar powers - super strength, flight, super durability - they're not alike in other ways; Wonder Woman is, depending on the writer, more willing to kill than Clark is, and she also has her Lasso of Truth.
Clark, meanwhile, is less willing to kill and has additional powers, like heat vision, freeze breath, X-ray vision, and so on.
They're more different than Batman/Batgirl is, as the two Bats usually share the same end-goals and ways to take down enemies (as Barbara uses the same tech as Bruce, and she's not nearly as willing to kill as Jason).
Indeed, the Robins are usually far more interesting than Batgirl is, as they each have their own personalities and ways of crimefighting - Jason Todd, especially after becoming Red Hood, is open to killing enemies; Dick Grayson becomes Nightwing, an independent crime-fighter, and Tim Drake, who later joins the Teen Titans.
My biggest problem with the show was this question that was on my mind throughout the whole thing; “What’s the point of Twoface if Harvey Dent is already a bad guy?”
Edit: Also the Nocturne episode was pretty much the only one I liked, it was eerie and well done. She gave me the creeps!
EXACTLY!!!!! I DON'T GET IT! WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM????
Exactly. I don't get it..... WHAT is wrong with them..
@@applejones1697also man I was excited to finally see some obscure villains for a change, but this show wasted every opportunity! My particular favorite obscure villain is Onomatopoeia and I had hoped they’d do something interesting with him, but nah he’s just some thug.
@@questworldiangreenknight7455
He is not a bad guy
What he is is susceptible
To his vanity
He wants to save Gotham
As always
But his vanity makes him
Week to manipulation
He is only the bad guy
Only if you believe that Barbara is
The good guy and she is not
The end of episode seven
Shows you exactly who this
Barbara is
@@ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΑ-ε1ω okay but the problem is that the show clearly wants us to side with Barbara, and the writers purposely made Harvey a sleazy guy. I’m not against Harvey being susceptible but it needs to have good writing in order for that to work. They made this exact mistake in that other show Beware The Batman.
In Batman the cape crusade series 2 they probably kill the Joker off in the first ten minutes by Harley Quinn and she will become a female version of the Joker, ditching her jester costume.
Being boring is worse than being bad
Arent those things one and the same?
Thank you for commenting on diversity not being responsible for a bad script. The writing is the make or break of a show, not the representation. I couldn’t get through the first five minutes and I’m glad I didn’t continue 😭 I hated how they made Two Face a jerk before the transformation, completely ruins what made him a good character (that he WAS good in the beginning)
I would say that what makes him great is that he can be both good AND bad. Even Btas despite portraying the character really well forgot that at times.
I recommend checking out the modern audio podcasts such as Batman the Audio Adventures and other DC titles. Surprisingly, these audio dramas are well written and the voices are amazing.
It's a shame the same treatment is not given to shows like this.
@@Nellufy yes they are
Has there been any word on if Season Three of Batman TAA is coming out? Last one ended on a cliffhanger, and it's been almost two years
@@rockystudios9710 I have no idea. I wish they could go back to that series. That was such a good series.
so sick of seeing Harley in every DC show
Who slept with Oswalda?! TWICE!
I would 💀👀
It's like Bruce Timm is trolling us all, which wouldn't surprise me. This "Harley Quinn" version is even further from the character than the new 52 and that changed everything about her lol so for this to be worse says something. I don't understand why they never include her Jewish roots. They could've made any character who was of Asian decent instead of changing Harley. That's the least of the issue with her though lol the whole helping police and dating Montoya makes no sense to me. The character just isn't Harley Quinn. Just a different jester in the Batman universe, using her name. Only similarities. Without her original concept, she's literally everything and nothing lol her character is just anyone whoever wants her to be and its sad. Thank you for this video!
I don't remember anything indicating she was Jewish in The Animated Series.
@@matane2465 the Yiddish phrases were a big clue but on top of that, Paul Dini said she was Jewish just like Arleen Sorkin was, and since Harley's made in her image, it was incorporated
I didn't mind Harley too much here, at least she was a rip off Deadpool or crazy hypersexual and trying to sleep with everything, but I think what Harley was in the series would have been better suited for a character like Ivy or Hugo strange. Also hoping for Joker and Harley to get together next season and Bruce Tim to not completely forget her Jewish roots, would be a shame if that's the case.
@@Omnicrush333 couldn't agree more💯
I don't mind a take where Harley focuses more on her psychiatrist side but it does come off as more Hugo Stange.
That thumbnail of “Shut up Pennyworth” sounded almost like “Shut up Meg”
It seems like in this day and age, it's not just about selfishly taking over everything and making it all for only one or two people to enjoy anymore. It's about the active avoidance of research and knowledge wherever possible. For me, research is the most difficult, yes, but also the most enjoyable part of writing anything. Research doesn't have to be treated like a leper colony and cast out at the door. It needs to be proven that writers can do research and make the process fun. Making something fun is one of the first steps to eliminating the fear of it.
Reserach is just references now
"Oh but it's an Elseworlds"
But we know why THEY'RE doing it! That's the problem!
I feel it definitely had a lot of dead spots but, I say the show has many means for improvement. I also watched My Adventures with Superman Season 2 and I said the same thing about Season 1 and Season 2 was so much better. So, if this Batman show is going to have a season 2 I hope they learn from their mistakes. Yes and I agree with you on the DEI. It hits you right in the face but, it really doesn't affect the show in any way. It's the writing and characters themselves that tear it down.
It’s not bland: it’s just terrible
I hate what they do with Batman himself: he’s always completely sidelined and while I certainly don’t mind Batman showing his limitations (we love him cus he’s human essentially) again the focus ends up being on other characters
Don’t get me wrong I’m okay with the spotlight falling in other characters from time to time but in this case it’s ALL the time. I guess Batman gets to take center stage in the Penguin Subplot but that brings me to another problem: Batman is an asshole!
Again, Batman and all other characters can be flawed but this show goes so extreme with that that it becomes a character assassination. He’s more violent, like the show teeters on trying to undermine Batman’s aversion to kill. Again, Batman in terms of demeanor is known to en flawed but he’s TOO much of a dick(especially to Alfred) and it does nothing for his character(especially when he’s getting sidelined). Last but not least he’s against affordable housing in Gotham: what the fuck?! He’s supposed to be a hero who wants to BENEFIT Gotham but instead he’s a fucking NIMBY!
Anyway, I really didn’t like how they handled Catwoman or Two Face or Harley Quinn. And yes, the show is bland: it’s trying to mimic the animated series but in doing so so it does seem to have any heart and soul of its own
I don’t want to descend upon Bruce Timm: hes done great work before and I don’t want to take that away from him because of THIS show. We’re in a different time and the guy only has so much control in this case given the limits streaming and a widespread lack of interest create. Furthermore, he could just be rusty it’s been decades since the animated series: it happens
Batman always was a asshole.
See my main issue with the show is just pacing. When I was watching it felt weirdly disjointed throughout; there'd be a fantastic fight scene or other genuinely impressive bit, then we'd awkwardly go back to more "civilian" stuff to progress any overarching plots, then back to something actually good. That's really the main thing, some individual pieces are fantastic, but when strung together they're made actively worse. Like, I almost would have preferred this as just a series of shorts, because it's really stylish and dynamic, but lacking in substance.
why cant they just be normal and just give the fans what they want by just adding the original penguin who was always a man in the comic books
I couldn't get through the first episode.
*_"Jar Jar Abrams"_*
*SAY NO MORE.* 🤦♂️
*EDIT→ **_Oswalda Penguina_* 🙄
My problem with the diversity is that it's set in the 1940s, but has the exact same politics as today. I have no problem with lesbians or lesbian characters in fiction, but there's straight up a lesbian kiss. In public. In the 1940's. And nobody Bats an eye (pun intentional). Why even set it in the 1940's if you're hardly gonna take anything from that time period?
What this version of harley does is that she takes wealthy "Irredeemable" people and breaks them down mentally to the base of their personality, so they are "Cured" .
All costumes both the prisoners and herself wear are based off the 12 Jungian personality archetypes and the things she forces them to do are actually disturbing mental torture.
I actually really like this version of harley, since it goes well with her psychology story, though I can see people prefering the old one.
For me Marvel and DC died with Stan Lee and Kevin Conroy.
DC animation died with Dwayne Mcduffie in 2011.
@@GIJoeFan97 DC died with New 52.
Who the hell would hire abrams anyhow?
bruce timm: guy who is terrible at writing dc stuff without paul dini's writing and forces his fetishes into EVERYTHING
jj abrams: a guy who has no idea how to direct movies
matt reeves: somebody who made a walmart version of batman begins and made the weakest batman movie (yeah whatever, fight me, the batman sucked)
put all 3 together, and you get caped crusader.
Which was The Batman?
@@Keram-io8hvThe Walmart Batman Begins.
@@angrytheclown801 Pattison one?
@@Keram-io8hv Yes, that is the one he's talking about.
@@angrytheclown801 Naaah still better than Batman and Robin
19:20 I like what you said here, oddly enough the restrictions on cartoons back in the day led to so many creative ideas that make the stories so much more mature than shows that pretend to be adult with cuss words and gore
I just wanted to say, like you stated in the video, at the very least they didn't try to frame this as a faithful continuation that honors the '90s series, like X-Men "97". That makes the changes somewhat more excusable, because it's not tied to any existing lore and inhabits its own continuity.
2:00 It doesn't _make_ a show bad, it _implies_ a show will be bad. It's smoke.
We're saying, "Look at that plume of smoke, we should check if the village burned down," and the response is "Smoke doesn't burn down villages!"
We know that. But where there's smoke, there's fire.
It doesn't take many examples to recognize the difference between the caliber of writer who could put a new spin on a character and make it work, and the caliber of writer who uses tokenization as a substitute for ability.
I enjoyed this video. I appreciated that it criticized various elements of the show without knocking them. Like, you can have an opinion while still being respectful and thoughtful about it, which this video is. And so you have a new subscriber. 👍👍And clearly you love Batman! Totally comes across.
I have yet to watch the show myself. And I more than likely will. Some things I’ve heard about the show I’m not thrilled about but as a BatFan, I’d like to check it out. I do like what I’ve seen of the Clayface episode.
Oh and I may have missed it, but I’d be interested in knowing your thoughts on that certain tease at the very end. Yeah I spoiled a bunch of stuff for myself lol.
I did give a chance to this "Serious Harley" when I heard that she was going to be Bruce's therapist. In my head, maybe the infatuation she has with the Joker in the original could be somehow flipped due to exposition with Bruce's real feelings, maybe she even figuring out he's Batman, but instead of trying to aid in the psychological way, she ends up admiring him and desiring to help in crime-fighting, but fundamentally misunderstanding his goals. Instead, they just gave her screentime for 3 episodes (not at all enough time to develop a character), made her inconsistent and with little to none motivation. I was a bit suspicious when she mentioned her college professor's name being "Crane", but I suppose this is just an easter-egg that will never lead anywhere.
The other thing that bummed me was Onomatopoea; I was hoping he'd be depicted as a menace he is in comics, but he just turned out to be silly, and his men provided more of a threat than himself. I do think he can be adapted for audiovisual media, but now I get why his creator doesn't like when they use him.
A writer with a penchant for race bending or gender bending is most likely a bad writer. Cults aren't known for compelling stories.
Sorry but i respectfully disagree. Batman: Caped Crusader being it's own series and universe that is different works. Introduces lesser known villains and uses known ones in new ways. We discover Bruce's past really well and get to see a good balance of Batman and Bruce's lives. I do disagree with the Xmen 97 quote too because the show is very clearly a continuation from the first, but it has such little referances to direct stories for newcomers. Respectfully
I liked that Barbara cuffed herself to a person with a damaged psyche that was more than ok with hurting anyone that even looked at him negatively. She saw how quickly Harvey can snap at anyone and she even saw him stomping a cops face off RIGHT in front of her and she still thought it was a good idea to stay next to him at all times. She definitely had plot armor especially if this Two-Face was acting dangerously without using the coin.
Once I saw that WB sold this show off, that told me all I needed to know. I'm not wasting time or eye moisture watching this crap.
Now I know why Roxy Rocket was in the original series. I didn't "hate" her. But she was just one step above the villains on the original Superfriends cartoon.
I also wanna point out?
Bruce Timm without Paul Dini is how you get these intense yet focused stories.
They appeal to a few but its not gonna be a show that everyone thinks is great.
Comics are a visual medium.
You should be able to recognize the characters immediately.
It shouldn’t be this thing where you’re guessing who that is.
If you can’t recognize the characters, they failed.
There are no unrecognizable characters in this. 😂
It was pretty mid. You want a good alternative animated series? Watch The Batman (2004).
It's god awful. It literally gave me a headache.
Oh there's nothing Reeves like in here. He was definitely that kid in a group project that does nothing while the others do everything.
@@ClassicHarleyQuinn he probably didnt know what the fuck to do
@@chandlerburse I have a feeling that he didn't want anything to do with the project.
It feels like they did with Batman the same they did with Velma.
They lost me with Fat Alfred. Seriously. What's up with that? He's been thin ever since he showed up as a chauffeur in a 1943 movie serial. Okay, fine, he was on the stout side in his first appearance in the comics (wearing a deerstalker hat like Sherlock Holmes), but that got fixed pretty fast.
And Penguin as a female nightclub singer did not help.
I know it's boring, doing the same characters, over and over.
So do something else. This is what Batman is, and you can only change it around so much without ruining it. Not interested, not watching, and I have nothing but reverence for Bruce Timm. J.J. Abrams, not so much. Born to ruin franchises, that one.
“I know it’s boring doing the same thing over and over. So do something else” and yet the moment they do, people don’t like it.
@@dubbingsync I'll upvote the sentiment, but different isn't better. Or worse. It's up to the people making whatever it is to make different better. They didn't. This sucks. It's different for the sake of being different, not for the sake of better expressing the characters. And FYI, I don't like Colin Farrell's Penguin either. I think he's an interesting variation on Tony Soprano. Not as good as the original. And not The Penguin in any way shape or form.
If you aren't going to write good dialogue for Alfred, then don't use him at all.
I've seen many different versions of the Bat-verse. Nobody's seen them all. Nobody lives that long. I liked some a lot better than others, and I wouldn't put any of them at the top of my list of favorite fictions. This isn't on my list at all, because it sucks. It makes me sorry I spent any of my limited time remaining on earth checking it out. It lowers my very high opinion of Bruce Timm, but of course the real blame appends to J.J. Abrams. As it so often does. As I once put it, his mission in life is to ruin every good franchise ever, and he's made a lot of progress there. ;)