I love how Frank offed a 70+ old mob boss at his birthday party with total disregard for his age. Even the other mobsters were shocked. Plus torching the human trafficker on video as a message. Dude is terrifying because he is absolute. You'd have better luck reasoning with a shark. Lol
The Netflix show did lean into Garth Ennis' interpretation. During a flashback, Frank's level of raw violence is showcased. Also at one point he explicitly states that he loved the fighting, death and, violence more than his own family.
Netflix Punisher leans into it somewhat, but it didn't capture the essence imo. He's still too identifiably human. Ennis's take on The Punisher is someone who has lost his soul and his purpose. He literally has nothing in his life anymore except his hatred of criminals, and the tragedy is that Frank is aware that his war is useless and will not solve anything.
To a degree, the Thomas Jane version of Punisher said it most succinctly: "in certain extreme situations, the law is inadequate. In order to shame its inadequacy, it is necessary to act outside the law. To pursue... natural justice. This is not vengeance. Revenge is not a valid motive, it's an emotional response. No, not vengeance. Punishment." I believe the reason why the Punisher is so popular, even with police and military, is because people see first hand how the justice system fails. Same in Boondock Saints. But he emphasized on it by saying CERTAIN EXTREME situations, things like we know 100%someone is quilty of heinous acts, but gets off on technicalities.
So glad they showed the punisher panel where he tells police that they don't do what he does and if he finds out they are then they're a criminal. He even goes on to say if they need a role model captain America would be happy to have them. That moment just hits different for me
I believe the entire reason people have come to idolize the character and his ideology is because society as a whole is sick and tired of killers, rapists, child molesters, etc getting light sentences, being let of easy/early, released on technicality, the list goes on. The justice system is f**ked and people see a fictional character that does what a lot them wish they could…
the pedophiles getting 6 month sentences in protected cells come to mind. the fact that one could rape a kid and get a lighter sentence than a guy with a blunt is ridiculous
You just pinpointed the reason I was always drawn to the character. Batman and Spider-Man are cool, but I always thought of how many lives could be saved if they would just kill the joker or Green goblin.
The Punisher has a limited rogues gallery, why because he kills all the mass murderers that he can get his hands on. While I'm not condoning murder, the tragedy is that more often than not, when you read a article about some brutal murder/torture/rape, you find that the person that committed the heinous act, was a repeat offender let free, out on bail, or out on parole. The reality is that Frank Castle is a fantasy character, and the people who appreciate his story lines, sometimes really wish that someone had killed that murderer/torturer/rapist before they were allowed free to commit the same horrific acts again. In the real world, pieces of shit get let free instead of staying in jail where they should be, and there IS NO Frank Castle to make them pay, just corrupt District Attorneys that will make sure the guilty walk free, and the innocent pay the price for it.
I half agree with you, because the punisher sometimes takes it too far, because he has kill people for doing small crimes to, their are people he's killed that did deserve it, like all the stuff you said, but he as also killed people for doing small crimes that doesn't deserve being killed for, I see what you're saying, and I do agree, but I think the world needs someone like the punisher, but dosen't take out people for doing small crimes
Even Frank doesnt like himself and what he does….but he does what is needed to be done because others wont do it…..even Frank would tell people to look up to someone else
Facts man! He's like an immutable force of nature, something that just is and should be. He doesn't love it, but it's his war and the war is all there is.
My favorite Punisher moment would be in Civil War, Where he absolutely refuses to raise a hand against one man he ultimately respects, Captain America, Even while Steve is kicking 20 shades of shit out of him
@@slowburn1980 Moon Knight also told Steve Rogers “Oh geez, you and Tony should just get a room to settle your differences”, during Civil War. That takes a set of 🥎s to say that to Captain America
@@sawtooth808 I didnt know about that, but he said the truth. In the end, the issue became personal and it clouded both Tonys and Steves judgement. They wanted to win, not what was best for their community. They clearly recognize it in Casualties of War and their argument becomes so intense that they resort to cross fists.
What I like about Frank is he is one of the few anti-heroes who is honest with himself. He knows what he does is wrong and does not glorify it when a good writer, like Garth Ennis, is penning his comics. Somebody who bothered to get to know Frank as a character before putting him in a story.
He doesn't "know what he does is wrong" if he thought it was wrong he wouldn't be doing it and he would be remorseful about it, seeing as how he survives a penance stare from ghost rider he clearly doesn't think his actions are wrong. By his personal morals he believes he is right when he delivers justice and doesn't see it as bad to kill people who deserve it. It's not glorifying him to say he's set in his decisions and doesn't feel bad about them.
Ehh, Garth Ennis is ok. He only writes good stories when he is given restrictions. If he has full creative freedom then you see his true colors. And they are not pretty. Just read his the boys for like 2 minutes. He has characters white or not casually use racial slurs, handles sexual assualt very immaturly, and uses the boys as way to display how much he hates the genre he makes his money from and even straight up says "i don't respect herowhorshippers" refering to fans of both marvel and DC.
He killed him for dealing drugs for a corrupt CIA figure, not because of anything he did to Castle. Before that, and before when they drew on each other, Castle had warned him to change and leave him, or he'd be a target too. And he did for years before showing up again on Castle's doorstep, holding a shotgun.
I honestly don't understand why idolizing the punisher would be considered controversial. He kills rapists, murderers, drug dealers, and people of that ilk. I really, really don't see the problem.
Because in fiction it's possible to always nail only the truly guilty and never get it wrong. If we had a 100% foolproof method of determining guilt from innocence we could easily justify whatever measures are taken to punish the guilty but in the real world it's rarely so certain. Police and courts and judges and juries can make mistakes, they can be corrupt, and often they are forced to make their best judgement call without enough solid information to go by and thus can't be certain they're actually making the right decision. We as the audience get the reassurance of being shown for an absolute fact that those the Punisher takes down really are guilty. We know he's justified because we know he's not wrong about his targets genuinely deserving what they get. Sadly, in the real world it's nowhere near so simple.
It's controversial because look who runs hollywood, social media, and news organizations The world is rotten to the core, best we can do is protect our families and friends against the hordes of degeneracy. What's done in the dark will be brought to the light
Yeah, I definitely agree that Punisher works best when he’s with other characters. The situations he gets into with almost every other Marvel hero is always interesting, even with other characters that are okay with killing like Wolverine, Frank in some ways is even more far gone in that direction than they are which creates its’ own other dynamic.
@Lujack Shaw aww is that the opinion this video told you to have 🥺, bro go watch the movie for yourself and form your own opinion lmao he kills everyone in a cold and calculating way and he displays the punishers genius tactical strategies and how he’s always prepared, the punishers from war zone and the tv show just scream, shoot their guns at people and get super lucky in all their battles, the real punisher actually has some strategy and planning which is why he’s usually able to take down superhuman opponents.
@@johnholliday7042 The guy got ragdolled by an Russian for five minutes straight in the film until he had to use environmental advantages to kill him, lol. Bernthal was in the same situation, but after he incapacitated about five Russians. Wish they did Jane more justice on certain aspects, tbh
@@therealedmontonmandidn’t look the part, didn’t act the part. Punisher is a tall, broad, daunting figure. The only actor to be close to a mold of him, was Ray Stevenson. Oh and the Punisher doesn’t meet his neighbours, or wants friends. 3 people is the usual amount of collaborators he engages with.
1989- stupid but fun. 2004- faithful to the source material and Jane made it his own. 2008- overly violent and was the Lowest grossing of all the Punisher films.
A few things: The Daredevil roof top scene happened in Ennis' Marvel Knights run, not Max. The Punisher killed Micro in the Max universe because he double crossed him. And yes the character can be misinterpreted, but only by idiots. This is something that hardcore, real Punisher fans like myself are all too aware of.
he didn't double cross him. he worked with drug cartels in order to find him. his complicity in the drug trade made him an obvious target for deletion.
@Lujack Shaw There's a difference between --- a sports brand running sweatshops, and a bunch of mouth breathers that haven't read a Punisher comic using his 'Skull' as a symbol for their backwards ideology. These are two separate issues.
@@DirtyOrbBear Well, I'm not a "mouth breather," as you put it, I grew up reading Punisher, and he remains to be one of my favorite characters. When I was in the army, we would stencil the Punisher logo on our vehicles. As far as I know, it wasn't a political statement. If it was, they no one ever shared it with me. We would also stencil things like "goodbye" and "it's not your day" on the front of our Bradley Fighting Vehicles. Dark humor, but not political. Fast forward to today, and I still wear Punisher t-shirts (I have several). Why? I just think the Punisher is cool.
"It's dangerous to idealize The Punisher..." Ok, but by the same logic you can say the same for Spider-man. The "absolutely no killing" is not being truly good because you are enabling people you KNOW will murder, rape and do other evil things big and small. Spider-man has LITERALLY saved Carnage's life, knowing full well the type of person he was and always will be. Also, the point of The Punisher is because the legal system is not good or just. If it was, he literally would not exist. It is run all by corrupt politicians, judges and so on that will protect the highest bidder, regardless of any morality. "In certain extreme situations, the law is inadequate. To shame its inadequacy, it is necessary to act outside the law. To pursue...natural justice."
Theres a lot of violent vigilantism in my country now. Know what happens when bad people are killed thru illegal means? Innocent people get killed thru illegal means too. Before the pandemic we had reached over 30 thousand deaths in our presidents drug war after barely 4 years in office, and because the authorities often kill drug dealers at the slightest provocation and often turn a blind eye when they find a dead body with drugs on it, it is really easy to get away with anything. There is no place for murder in a civilized society. And re: spider man, how do you know carnage wont change? Venom was a murderer as well, but became a good guy. Doc ock romanced aunt may. Black cat has helped the good guys on many occasions. Harry reconciled with him in the end. Jonah, who slandered him, created scorpion, and backed the spider slayers, now admires him and tries to help him. The 'no kill' rule isnt absolute. Even batman gunned down darkseid. But carnage is controllable and beatable, not a new god who can destroy the planet.
@@waffleboyxp4286 Thank you. I'm always growing tired that people seem to believe that "Good" is defined by saving/protecting the maximum number of (human) lives, rather than defining it by the quality of each life.
Spider-Man is, or at least was back in his heyday when he was written well, a mostly normal man and most normal people cannot bring themselves to kill in any but the most extreme situations. And those who are forced to cross that line almost inevitably suffer severe psychological damage for having done so. Thus, Spidey cannot casually kill without guilt and errs on the side of preserving life whenever he can. Moreover, he knows he's not in a position to be judge, jury and executioner and he prefers to leave that role to the legal authorities rather than take that power of life and death into his own hands. It's an understandable position that most civilians are in line with whether they talk a harsher game or not. On the other hand, when written well he is also a human being and can be pushed beyond his limits. He's not a perfect paragon who always makes the "morally right" decision with a clear and cool head, he's a person with real emotions who tries his best to do the right thing but under enough emotional strain driven by enough anguish and loss, he can succumb to rage like anyone else.
It’s ok to admire the Punisher. Even Captain America has killed plenty of his enemies and he has used plenty of guns. In many situations it’s necessary and just. People who say the Skull logo is bad today will say Cap’s shield is bad tomorrow if they aren’t already. Many of these people already openly hate the American flag and freedom. You think that the government, any government, is perfect and pure enough to be the only thing capable of deciding the fate of a murderer? Every living thing has the right to defend its life and the life of others. It just happens to be reality that the best way to stop a lethal attack is with lethal force. If your Superman or Spider-Man with super powers then sure, you can easily subdue someone without harming them. A more realistic character doesn’t have that luxury, but innocents would die if they didn’t stop the enemy. People who disagree with this are the same type of people who stop punishing other crimes and even justify crime such as theft. Crime escalates. When you allow lesser crime, more serious crimes become more prevalent. These type of people usually don’t want to allow self defence which basically puts them on the side of defending the murderers, thieves, and rapists. It’s no wonder the cities filled with people who don’t support self defence and punishment are going to shit.
I'll never understand people who want to stop someone like the Punisher. If you let someone live and they go on to hurt MORE people, then YOU are responsible. Those people's pain and misery is on YOU. You might feel all high and mighty thinking that you're taking the virtuous path, but you leave arguably more bodies in your wake. Usually the bodies of innocents.
A little known fact about the Punisher that goes with his Sicilian descent. In the early iteration of Marvel's Conan comics, it was hinted at the fact he is an ancestor of Frank Castle's. Conan was often referred to have olive skin and many geographic clues were dropped that his home country was where modern-day Sicily is. Also, if you look at the way Conan and Punisher were drawn in the 80s, their faces are very similar. So, the reason why Frank is so good at what he does is because he's got that Cimmerian blood running through his veins.
I think you read too much into people using Punisher's logo. When I was in the army, deployed to Iraq, soldiers stenciled the logo on their vehicles. We didn't "idolize" a comic book character. We just thought it was cool. Today, when I wear t-shirts with the Punisher logo on it, I'm not making any political statement. Again, I think the Punisher is cool. Sue me.
I agree, some people are total prudes the prudes crying about cops and vets reading punisher comics are just as bad as the religious right and PMRC was back in the 80’s.
@@thomasjohnson1885 eh. I can inherit a bit, but then again...I just let it be. it was less of a take over and more od.them adopting a look that honestly sisnt catch on well and wouldn't have even seen high status was it.not fpr.media making it bigger than it was.
Wolverine wouldn’t team up with either of them unless he had no choice. He hates Deadpool because he’s annoying as hell, and hates Punisher because he’s an asshole.
I don't think the narrator really understands why people like the punisher. especially those in positions were their lives are trivialized and unimportant... and are trained to kill. people know all to well who the punisher is and THAT is why they like him. many see him as not some superpowered hero. just an average person taking the fight to the criminals.
I have an odd additional fact people often get wrong about Frank, he doesn't smoke. In tons of artwork, he's depicted smoking. I now have nearly every issue of Punisher, and in all of them, I think he only smoked once, in order to sneak a way to set off a bomb past security.
It's just so silly to me that Marvel considered retiring the character or at least his logo because a handful of idiots thought to use it for whatever dumb political coups they were pursuing. There's really not that many people using the Punisher as some sort of symbol.
"The Punisher is problematic in our current day of age" Gee thank for the moral lecon you giving us. You sure gonna love the new look of the Punisher where he is using sword instead of guns to kill people.
To the final point: It's not that many people don't understand that the authors didn't want the Punisher idealized; it's that much like the Punisher himself, they fundamentally disagree with the predominate Marvel narrative. They put the Punisher above other heroes not because they think the authors wanted them to, but rather, because the Punisher's brand of justice to them represents a more realistic & effective form of combating evil than is practiced by the (rather cartoonish in comparison) mainstream heroes. They fully realize that violence made Frank Castle who he is; they also realize that violence is a constant presence in the real world & that heroes who abstain too much from it would likely be killed in their first week of vigilantism if this were set in the real world, because real-life villains won't hold back & real-life heroes don't have superpowers. They do not altogether abhor fantasy (some of Frank's stunts are, after all, fairly unlikely, even while still being THEORETICALLY plausible,) but at least semi-realistic fantasy speaks to them on a deeper level than something which isn't at all believable. They easily identify with the series' dark, bleak, gritty nihilism because when they look around their neighborhoods (depending on where they live) or turn on the news (practically anywhere,) that is all they see.
So what you're saying is that none of these back the blue punisher fanboys actually like the punisher. They just like the Punisher they made up in their heads.
He is idolized by police and military because he provides an escapist fantasy where the trivialities of mundane legal work and post hoc moralisation gives way to the utter humanity in it 's pure, primitive and violent form. Where justice or retribution, however grusome, is always served - which anyone with a badge or uniform knows is not always the case. Saying that they misread him might be true or is just your civilian sensibilities that are not privy to the horrors some people see in their line of work and cannot comprehend why they might feel an existential longing for someone like the Punisher to bring a semblance of balance to the world.
Your final point is the best. I am a huge fan of the character, but part of that is knowing that at the end of the day he is absolutely NOT what ANYONE should hold up as a good example for ANYTHING.
On the surface Frank massacres criminals because they are not given revenge. Under the surface Frank massacres criminals because he loves battling people as screwed up as him.
Militaries adopt his sigil because castle is a veteran that quite clearly displays symptoms of war induced PTSD, not because of his violent resistance against the moral status quo. Castle depicts family disconnect, dissociative urges and states, nightmares, and a difficulty living a civilian life. All of these symptoms are common among veterans returning from long deployments, and the punisher acts as a Familiar and comforting reflection of themselves overcoming these struggles to protect his community, and idea that most military personnel strongly associate with, as their duty to protect and serve and their training to overcome all obstacles is so deeply ingrained. Take the origin of the punisher for example in Punisher Born, shortly after returning home in that run, we see him struggling to relate and enjoy time with his family, he can barely sleep, because now he has crossed that line in combat, he isn't the same man anymore. From watching his own men commit atrocities in the jungle, to the events during the ambush, Frank Castle never came back from Vietnam, which is something a lot of veterans experience.
A veteran with PTSD and (probably) other mental issues shouldn't even entertain the thought of doing some armed vigilante shit once back to his/her home country. Psychotherapists or psychiatrists or prayer groups or whatever would be far better choices.
@@avaman1993 Not to be pithy, but if people with mental illnesses knew what they should do and made better choices, they wouldn't be as mentally ill. That's what's defines a disability - how much it hinders one's ability to function on all levels as a person.
Because if there's one thing foreigners, enemy combatants, and immigrants think of when they see an angry skull protruding on bulletproof vests, guns, and military vehicles, it's a deep conversation about veteran disenfranchisement by the US and PTSD😂
@@jigokushoujo1231 It's quite common for former military personnel to be in denial regarding their condition, or to simply refuse it in the grounds of them not wanting help for whatever reason. Military life changes everyone that enters it, and some of those people come home not wanting to admit anything is wrong, since their whole job is to be strong for others. In Frank's case, the only people in the world that had the ability to bring him back from that were killed Infront of him. Frank never stopped fighting the war because his life before the war doesn't exist anymore. Frank Castle is a name on some dog tags somewhere in Frank's belongings. The Punisher is all that's left of the man. This is explored in punisher born. Frank doesn't want to get better because he doesn't feel like he deserves it. He let his family die in his arms, he couldn't protect them despite all the people he killed and saved in the war. He sees his actions as Punisher as retribution. He knows it's wrong. But that's why he plans for the last bullet he fires to be for himself, because once all the killers and monsters are dead, the only one left would be him. That's how he views the world. How he views his war on crime. He doesn't see himself as a hero, he sees himself as a part of the cancer.
Not sure how many people got to see it, but the Thomas Jane movie had a deluxe edition with cut scenes where Castle forces Jimmy Weeks (the guy who sold out his family and got them murdered) to kill himself. It was such a cold and badass scene, i wish they kept it in the final cut!
Ray Stevenson is the most accurate Punisher no matter what(Ennis Welcome Back Frank-Punisher Max final issue) he’s a soldier doing his orders. There is no joy or anger predominantly and it is Frank Castle. Not saying it’s the best movie, but it’s a better portrayal than Netflix. Bernthal forgives too much, gives up his mission between season one and two and the biggest inaccuracy is the final scene of season one of two(I can’t recall), where he says “I’ll dance with you” and then screams as he shoots. Ray Stevenson was cold, calculating and stoic. That’s the li usher.
Daredevil didn't show up in Max. It was another Ennis run. God I still remember the first time I read a Punisher Max comic after Ennis left. I was like "This really sucks. Like, it really really sucks. What happened?" and that's how I found out Ennis left.
Why is idolizing frank castle a bad thing? We should all look up to…he had the truest thought, I love Batman but, one dead criminal is one less criminalb
As far as im concerned, the punisher isn't idolized for his simplistic form of justice, judge, and executioner. Police and military adopted his symbol because as much as u may not like it, outside ur safe walls that is the only true way to bring "justice" to criminals and terrorists across the globe, tbh sometimes there's no other way to bring someone in other than straight doming there head, and the current justice system and in the marvel universe are far from perfect. Yes he methods are extreme and brutal but most of the criminals he goes after are far worse than anything he does.
What I never liked about Jon Bernthal as The Punisher is, he never really looked pissed off enough to play the character. For me, Ray Stevenson will always be Frank Castle.
On a side note i'm sad we'll never get to see Stevenson don the White Skull again in any form, loved his portrayal of the character and was heartbroken over his passing.
Having read the comics for decades, The Punisher is not some screaming, raging psychopath. He's a ruthless and very apathetic, mass-murdering vigilante. He very rarely shows his emotions. He's cold. He's past the rage or grief. He just kills and kills. That's why for me Ray Stevenson is more closer to the comics. Thomas Jane is more of the heroic version of Punisher which is also great or kinda family friendly but thats not the comicbook Punisher. Thats why imo Jon Bernthal aint that great for me. Maybe they will change this in the new show or movie if itll ever happen. But if Bernthal reprises his role, time to stop or lessen the screaming lol. And Punisher doesnt lose his cool, or even if he does he doesnt show it lmao Even DOOM Slayer can show the hate and rage without speaking. That's what Punisher IS.
The bad guys murdered his family right in front of him. He only kills other bad guys, really bad guys that deserve it. I like the story which I feel is very well written.
I think you should rethink your last point. Not everybody has the same values. I also personally think that justice is worth more than any life. That all comes down to values and what your perception of life is. It doesn't mean that the punisher is wrong, only that he sees life in a different way than other people in general.
The murder of Frank’ family didn’t create the Punisher, it only freed the punisher from being imprisoned to a simple life. War to Frank is Heaven, a simple life to Frank is hell. He is a apex predator hunting other predators for his own satisfaction.
The murder of Frank’ family didn’t create the Punisher, it only freed the punisher from being imprisoned to a simple life. War to Frank is Heaven, a simple life to Frank is hell. He is a apex predator hunting other predators for his own satisfaction.
Your comment about the Bat-Man not killing people is bullshit. He has killed people, because the simple truth is some people do all they can to leave you with no alternative. The Punisher differs because he considers no alternative.
Haven't watched any whatculture content in ages, but gotta show love when someone accurately (mostly. Punisher and DD had the RT talk in Marvel Knights Punisher, not MAX) shows love and appreciation for Frank Castle. Good job and great to hear Jules again!
10 Things People Get Wrong About The Mask like his best adaptations were the Revenge Of The Mask fan films which were comic accurate to a degree but still faithful
I had a friend in high school that was very into the Don Pendleton novels. He was constantly telling me about Mack Bolan. He also had a lot of Punisher comics. They weren't bad.
I have 2 fav Punisher moments. One is where a bunch of generals send tier one guys after him and he refuses to kill them and gets captured. The other is an alternate universe version rescues some Green Berets in South America and they kill cartel dudes(in a realistic portrayal of an ambush) run by Crossbones. Later the Green Beret he rescues runs a punisher patch on his gear and "punisher" as his team call sign in Afghanistan.
when i think of the punisher. i am reminded on what the jackal from farcry 2 said about not falling victim to your own hype, because it makes you less of a man , not more. and he was a damn black market arms dealer saying that. he knows people like him all too well...
As an American, who regularly sees police and private citizens proudly and flagrantly don the Punisher skull: Thank you for addressing it in the number one spot. I have talked to some of these people and some do know what it is and some do not, but neither response gives me any pleasure in seeing displayed with some form of visceral and sadistic glee.
Whaaaaat?! Someone appreciating Punisher: War Zone? Honestly of the 3 films it's my favorite. Not only does it show how focused and well trained in combat Frank is, but I also found Stevensons portrayal to be all in all definitive until Berethol took the role and was able to show more layers.
ye but berthal wasnt even the PUNISHER in his own show, he was more like wolverine than the punisher which is why stevenson is the definitive punisher but stevenson can still be rivaled because of berthals punisher in daredevil
That’s one interpretation of the character - another is that the death of his family liberated him to be the man he became during the war: a remorseless killer in search of a conflict that gives his life purpose - in this case, organized crime gives him a perfect opportunity for a war that never ends…
There were 2 Batman / Punisher crossover comics in mid-90s, right around time of Knightfall. One story with Azrael Batman, who thought Frank and his methods were great; the other was with Bruce, who naturally hated him. Frank even offered to kill Joker, had him point blank, so Batman could keep his hands clean and Bruce not only refused bit saved Joker's life. Great graphic novels if you can find them!
Yup. And in the second crossover when the Punisher caught up to the Joker Mister J was actually scared of him because he knew that Frank was actually going to kill him and only the fact that Batman stopped him was the only thing that saved his life.
The punisher is the only hero I really respect. If you made a point to be evil your whole life and break free from the "consequences" of your actions I don't see the point in repeating the process. It is said that doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. Once a villain goes super villain the FMJs come out and evil finally takes a day off.
Considering what comic book movies were like when it came out the Dolf Lundgren Punisher movie isn't that bad. I thought the Yakuza leader lady was pretty intimidating.
The punisher is problematic in our current age? Sure it is problematic to be sick of society that let’s criminals, offenders let off easy while Law abiding citizens get trotted on
Yeah anyone who actually idolises Frank has absolutely missed the entire point he makes. It's one thing to respect him for his fight against crime, but even that would be a stretch because of his methods. And I'm pretty sure that that interaction where he warns those cops not to cross into his territory lest he find, and stop, them was actually created in response to the seeming wholesale support of him within the real-life law enforcement community. Point being that if the police had done their jobs properly to begin with, there wouldn't BE a Punisher. As for the rest of the points, I'm pretty sure I was, at least tangentially, aware of almost all of them aside from the fleshing out in Ennis' Punisher Born and the claim that War Journal is the better film, but I'll have to re-watch it to really be sure. Oh, and I also had no idea what he was inspired by, so that was awesome to learn.
Punisher Born is the best. Frank Castle loves war so greatly, he makes a deal with Death to wage war the rest of his life. The cost is his family. Also, new comics are shit.
I hate it when you force in SJW Politics to what is just a Symbol. Adopting a symbol for a unit has NOTHING to do with the ideologies of the comic, they enjoyed the comic but didn't use the violence as a motivation. It's just a Symbol, stop reading more into it than that
Yea I hate it when people say shit like "cops who use the punisher logo have a secret agenda" I've seen police cars with autobot and decepticon symbols on them is there some "secret agenda" behind that.
How many times has Batman caught the Joker? How many times has the Joker escaped and killed innocent people? At what point is Batman considered useless? That is why the Punisher is popular, he fixes the problem.
Definitely an interesting and, especially in Punisher Max, challenging character. Hope that he gets shuffled into a bigger part of the MCU, he really has the ability to stretch the narrative in new and exciting directions, i.e. what happens when the MCU has to deal with a sex trafficking ring (one of my fav Punisher Max stories) and challenge fellow heroes on how far they're REALLY willing to go to save the day (if you haven't read it already, that's why I like Black Summer so much for a one-shot)
@@a.ym05 yeah man I think you're right, but damn was it satisfying watching Castle throw that trafficker against the bullet proof glass until the fram broke and she got tossed out at around 40 stories (I'm an immigration attorney that's worked with trafficking victims), hopefully they dig into the Max storyline and we can always hope Disney pulls a Miramax and puts out more adult content without the Disney branding that could be a separate, What If-esque pocket dimension of adult badassery
@@a.ym05 considering the charges against disney workers lately and all the grooming disney is doing.... a sex traffic ring sounds right up their alley...
It drives me bonkers when I see people with the punisher skill bumper stickers embedded with the "blue lives matter" colors, or the confederacy flag. Like it somehow makes them some kind of badass. And I live in Texas, so I see it a lot. It's like, "Do you morons even read the comics? If Frank Castle was real, he'd be appalled, and trust me, you do not want Frank Castle appalled at you."
So you are saying everyone gets his origin wrong and we should instead take a reinvented tired deal-with-the-devil origin as what defines him? That's a really weak argument.
While I am an unapologetic fan of the punisher, the idea that people would see him as a role model disturbs me as much as the idea they would idolise Wilson Fisk.
@@agonleed3841 the punisher and Batman are both examples of an ideology that makes a person feel righteous but doesn’t actually solve the problem. Frank Castle’s war on criminals is eternal because he is just dealing with the surface level of a problem that goes much deeper. The solution to the problem he is fighting is both political and economic, so whenever he removes one crime family or criminal cartel, another one is always going to fill that void - it’s market economics at work. This is why I mentioned Batman. The irony of that character is that he could be far more effective at reducing crime in Gotham (DC’s fictional representation of New York City) by leveraging his economic weight as Bruce Wayne than he ever could be punching criminals as Batman.
@@chaos4living676 not really. I like the fantasy of the Punisher, but I recognise that it’s a fantasy. Iron Man’s suits are far more realistic than Frank Castle’s war on crime having a positive outcome.
@@aidancampbell5644 Oh I see, you are one of the people who think that Comics lead to violence like video games, movies, books, etc so they need to be censored. If you need comics to tell you what is good and bad, you clearly didn't have any parents to teach you shit.
I’m with you! People Act like that movie so bad when the only thing Really bad about it was the fonts for the opening credits. The kills were brutal, it wasn’t played for laughs, etc I liked it more than that Thomas Jane crap especially with what they did to Kevin Nash’s Sailor character…… just the dock seen alone in Dolph’s version was better than anything in Jane’s
Dolph seemed to be really into the character and they cleverly changed some stuff to make it not as "comic book" not that think it was the right choice but I like the skull daggers
I love how Frank offed a 70+ old mob boss at his birthday party with total disregard for his age. Even the other mobsters were shocked. Plus torching the human trafficker on video as a message. Dude is terrifying because he is absolute. You'd have better luck reasoning with a shark. Lol
100 old, actually
@@МявМыров he was still right, he had a +
Wow, narrator really has a stick up his behind.
Probably never had a bad thing happen and never watches the news.
The Netflix show did lean into Garth Ennis' interpretation. During a flashback, Frank's level of raw violence is showcased. Also at one point he explicitly states that he loved the fighting, death and, violence more than his own family.
So like a lot of the people who adopted the logo as a personal symbol because it's code for racism or supporting killer cops
@@Monkismo the skull isn't racist hahaha
Netflix Punisher leans into it somewhat, but it didn't capture the essence imo. He's still too identifiably human.
Ennis's take on The Punisher is someone who has lost his soul and his purpose. He literally has nothing in his life anymore except his hatred of criminals, and the tragedy is that Frank is aware that his war is useless and will not solve anything.
It's him...
He's a compelling character...
He challenges the idea of heroism inadvertently; fantastically fleshed out ...
@@jamespope7669 I'm trying to figure out what he meant by that.
To a degree, the Thomas Jane version of Punisher said it most succinctly: "in certain extreme situations, the law is inadequate. In order to shame its inadequacy, it is necessary to act outside the law. To pursue... natural justice. This is not vengeance. Revenge is not a valid motive, it's an emotional response. No, not vengeance. Punishment."
I believe the reason why the Punisher is so popular, even with police and military, is because people see first hand how the justice system fails. Same in Boondock Saints. But he emphasized on it by saying CERTAIN EXTREME situations, things like we know 100%someone is quilty of heinous acts, but gets off on technicalities.
So glad they showed the punisher panel where he tells police that they don't do what he does and if he finds out they are then they're a criminal. He even goes on to say if they need a role model captain America would be happy to have them. That moment just hits different for me
@Lujack Shaw that was in a zombie universe
@Lujack Shaw non canon
@Lujack Shaw 616 Punisher is a total Captain America fanboy.
Yea Police dont do what the punisher does they simply like the symbol thats it
@@GHOST-zy3ji the point is they should not like them.
I believe the entire reason people have come to idolize the character and his ideology is because society as a whole is sick and tired of killers, rapists, child molesters, etc getting light sentences, being let of easy/early, released on technicality, the list goes on. The justice system is f**ked and people see a fictional character that does what a lot them wish they could…
the pedophiles getting 6 month sentences in protected cells come to mind. the fact that one could rape a kid and get a lighter sentence than a guy with a blunt is ridiculous
I absolutely and 100% agree with this comment.
EXACTLY!!!!
You just pinpointed the reason I was always drawn to the character.
Batman and Spider-Man are cool, but I always thought of how many lives could be saved if they would just kill the joker or Green goblin.
You nailed it💯
The Punisher has a limited rogues gallery, why because he kills all the mass murderers that he can get his hands on. While I'm not condoning murder, the tragedy is that more often than not, when you read a article about some brutal murder/torture/rape, you find that the person that committed the heinous act, was a repeat offender let free, out on bail, or out on parole.
The reality is that Frank Castle is a fantasy character, and the people who appreciate his story lines, sometimes really wish that someone had killed that murderer/torturer/rapist before they were allowed free to commit the same horrific acts again.
In the real world, pieces of shit get let free instead of staying in jail where they should be, and there IS NO Frank Castle to make them pay, just corrupt District Attorneys that will make sure the guilty walk free, and the innocent pay the price for it.
I half agree with you, because the punisher sometimes takes it too far, because he has kill people for doing small crimes to, their are people he's killed that did deserve it, like all the stuff you said, but he as also killed people for doing small crimes that doesn't deserve being killed for, I see what you're saying, and I do agree, but I think the world needs someone like the punisher, but dosen't take out people for doing small crimes
@@thefuriousfrank3001 you keep saying small crimes. you're talking about the gang banging drug dealers he kills?
cry me a river.
@@wulfkriger3356 no I'm talking about the Petty thieves he's killed like in the civil war comic
@@thefuriousfrank3001 petty thieves? You mean the people strongarm robbing people? IE: they have weapons and are threatening the lives of the victims?
@@wulfkriger3356 no, I mean PETTY THIEVES, yes, he's murdered regular thieves before
Even Frank doesnt like himself and what he does….but he does what is needed to be done because others wont do it…..even Frank would tell people to look up to someone else
Yeah too bad he wasnt able to kill spider man, which needed to be done.
@@antondelacruz9362 lol exactly
Facts man! He's like an immutable force of nature, something that just is and should be. He doesn't love it, but it's his war and the war is all there is.
@@antondelacruz9362 why?
My favorite Punisher moment would be in Civil War, Where he absolutely refuses to raise a hand against one man he ultimately respects, Captain America, Even while Steve is kicking 20 shades of shit out of him
My favorite moment in CW was when Moon Knight called Tony Stark a fucking asshole.
@@slowburn1980 Moon Knight also told Steve Rogers “Oh geez, you and Tony should just get a room to settle your differences”, during Civil
War. That takes a set of 🥎s to say that to Captain America
@@sawtooth808 I didnt know about that, but he said the truth. In the end, the issue became personal and it clouded both Tonys and Steves judgement. They wanted to win, not what was best for their community. They clearly recognize it in Casualties of War and their argument becomes so intense that they resort to cross fists.
What I like about Frank is he is one of the few anti-heroes who is honest with himself. He knows what he does is wrong and does not glorify it when a good writer, like Garth Ennis, is penning his comics. Somebody who bothered to get to know Frank as a character before putting him in a story.
He doesn't "know what he does is wrong" if he thought it was wrong he wouldn't be doing it and he would be remorseful about it, seeing as how he survives a penance stare from ghost rider he clearly doesn't think his actions are wrong. By his personal morals he believes he is right when he delivers justice and doesn't see it as bad to kill people who deserve it. It's not glorifying him to say he's set in his decisions and doesn't feel bad about them.
Ennis Punisher is overrated.
He loves violence and killing. The bad guys doing bad things is the excuse to enact on his urge of violence.
@@bigboss0101 That is Ennis's take. That's not every writer.
Ehh, Garth Ennis is ok. He only writes good stories when he is given restrictions. If he has full creative freedom then you see his true colors. And they are not pretty. Just read his the boys for like 2 minutes. He has characters white or not casually use racial slurs, handles sexual assualt very immaturly, and uses the boys as way to display how much he hates the genre he makes his money from and even straight up says "i don't respect herowhorshippers" refering to fans of both marvel and DC.
Y'all just ignore the fact that Micro crossed Frank and that's why he killed him lol
That was a pretty huge plot point in the book and it’s weird it wasn’t mentioned
Yeah lol, he crossed Frank and attempted to get into the heroin business
He killed him for dealing drugs for a corrupt CIA figure, not because of anything he did to Castle. Before that, and before when they drew on each other, Castle had warned him to change and leave him, or he'd be a target too. And he did for years before showing up again on Castle's doorstep, holding a shotgun.
@@LedZedd Micro also sold info about Frank. Also, what you mentioned itself is STILL crossing him.. So idk why you felt the need to "correct" someone.
@@EmperorGuyver Because that's literally not why he killed Micro.
The United States desperately needs a real life Frank Castle, right now.
The daredevil/punisher issue isn’t actually the max series, it’s Ennis’s marvel knights series from before.
Came here to say this too. Ennis Marvel Knight Punisher Vol 1 Issue 3 in case anyone wants to look it up
That's funny,I was also thinking that when they showed the image.
I honestly don't understand why idolizing the punisher would be considered controversial.
He kills rapists, murderers, drug dealers, and people of that ilk.
I really, really don't see the problem.
Because in fiction it's possible to always nail only the truly guilty and never get it wrong. If we had a 100% foolproof method of determining guilt from innocence we could easily justify whatever measures are taken to punish the guilty but in the real world it's rarely so certain. Police and courts and judges and juries can make mistakes, they can be corrupt, and often they are forced to make their best judgement call without enough solid information to go by and thus can't be certain they're actually making the right decision.
We as the audience get the reassurance of being shown for an absolute fact that those the Punisher takes down really are guilty. We know he's justified because we know he's not wrong about his targets genuinely deserving what they get.
Sadly, in the real world it's nowhere near so simple.
Watch Daredevil season 2. Daredevil has some very valid points about redemption when they are talking on the rooftop.
@@DrFrankNStein-sf2wwyou can't be redeemed as an EDP445lbs/Chris Tyson or Grape ist. Those people are beyond redemption and only deserve punishment
It's controversial because look who runs hollywood, social media, and news organizations
The world is rotten to the core, best we can do is protect our families and friends against the hordes of degeneracy. What's done in the dark will be brought to the light
Yeah, I definitely agree that Punisher works best when he’s with other characters.
The situations he gets into with almost every other Marvel hero is always interesting, even with other characters that are okay with killing like Wolverine, Frank in some ways is even more far gone in that direction than they are which creates its’ own other dynamic.
gotta admit i have always found thomas jane to be the better punisher. He just always felt the most 90s punisher out of them all.
@Lujack Shaw aww is that the opinion this video told you to have 🥺, bro go watch the movie for yourself and form your own opinion lmao he kills everyone in a cold and calculating way and he displays the punishers genius tactical strategies and how he’s always prepared, the punishers from war zone and the tv show just scream, shoot their guns at people and get super lucky in all their battles, the real punisher actually has some strategy and planning which is why he’s usually able to take down superhuman opponents.
@@johnholliday7042 The guy got ragdolled by an Russian for five minutes straight in the film until he had to use environmental advantages to kill him, lol. Bernthal was in the same situation, but after he incapacitated about five Russians.
Wish they did Jane more justice on certain aspects, tbh
It was the car
@@therealedmontonmandidn’t look the part, didn’t act the part.
Punisher is a tall, broad, daunting figure. The only actor to be close to a mold of him, was Ray Stevenson.
Oh and the Punisher doesn’t meet his neighbours, or wants friends. 3 people is the usual amount of collaborators he engages with.
Well said
I found out a couple years ago that Castle has the same last name as me, Castiglione... made me like the character even more lol
Dave Castle IS.... The Punisher 2
@@brosef4154 Hell yeah! Let's get it Punisher Dave!
I like the Punisher Warzone movie but the liberties they took with the characters(pitsy, ink, maginty etc) is why I don’t hold it over Janes Punisher
A Garth Ennis universe-version of Punisher would be on a whole other level! Wish they'd make a film like that.
1989- stupid but fun.
2004- faithful to the source material and Jane made it his own.
2008- overly violent and was the Lowest grossing of all the Punisher films.
You can't hug violence to stop it. Only give it in turn and hope the one infront of you stands after it's over. Punisher is the hero we need.
A few things: The Daredevil roof top scene happened in Ennis' Marvel Knights run, not Max. The Punisher killed Micro in the Max universe because he double crossed him. And yes the character can be misinterpreted, but only by idiots. This is something that hardcore, real Punisher fans like myself are all too aware of.
he didn't double cross him. he worked with drug cartels in order to find him. his complicity in the drug trade made him an obvious target for deletion.
Never trust a knob who uses the punisher logo unironically.
@Lujack Shaw There's a difference between --- a sports brand running sweatshops, and a bunch of mouth breathers that haven't read a Punisher comic using his 'Skull' as a symbol for their backwards ideology.
These are two separate issues.
@Lujack Shaw
What?
@@DirtyOrbBear
Well, I'm not a "mouth breather," as you put it, I grew up reading Punisher, and he remains to be one of my favorite characters. When I was in the army, we would stencil the Punisher logo on our vehicles. As far as I know, it wasn't a political statement. If it was, they no one ever shared it with me. We would also stencil things like "goodbye" and "it's not your day" on the front of our Bradley Fighting Vehicles. Dark humor, but not political. Fast forward to today, and I still wear Punisher t-shirts (I have several). Why? I just think the Punisher is cool.
@@johnhannibalsmith1607 yea youre exactly the kinda person the video is talking about. Be captain America
@@Radjhitoocool
I'm an adult. We're talking about comic book characters. I can't "be" either one.
"It's dangerous to idealize The Punisher..."
Ok, but by the same logic you can say the same for Spider-man. The "absolutely no killing" is not being truly good because you are enabling people you KNOW will murder, rape and do other evil things big and small. Spider-man has LITERALLY saved Carnage's life, knowing full well the type of person he was and always will be. Also, the point of The Punisher is because the legal system is not good or just. If it was, he literally would not exist. It is run all by corrupt politicians, judges and so on that will protect the highest bidder, regardless of any morality.
"In certain extreme situations, the law is inadequate. To shame its inadequacy, it is necessary to act outside the law. To pursue...natural justice."
Theres a lot of violent vigilantism in my country now. Know what happens when bad people are killed thru illegal means? Innocent people get killed thru illegal means too.
Before the pandemic we had reached over 30 thousand deaths in our presidents drug war after barely 4 years in office, and because the authorities often kill drug dealers at the slightest provocation and often turn a blind eye when they find a dead body with drugs on it, it is really easy to get away with anything.
There is no place for murder in a civilized society.
And re: spider man, how do you know carnage wont change? Venom was a murderer as well, but became a good guy. Doc ock romanced aunt may. Black cat has helped the good guys on many occasions. Harry reconciled with him in the end. Jonah, who slandered him, created scorpion, and backed the spider slayers, now admires him and tries to help him.
The 'no kill' rule isnt absolute. Even batman gunned down darkseid. But carnage is controllable and beatable, not a new god who can destroy the planet.
This right here WHAT YOU JUST SAID should be biblical well said Brother well fucken said 🤜🏼🤛🏼
@@waffleboyxp4286 Thank you. I'm always growing tired that people seem to believe that "Good" is defined by saving/protecting the maximum number of (human) lives, rather than defining it by the quality of each life.
Spider-Man is, or at least was back in his heyday when he was written well, a mostly normal man and most normal people cannot bring themselves to kill in any but the most extreme situations. And those who are forced to cross that line almost inevitably suffer severe psychological damage for having done so.
Thus, Spidey cannot casually kill without guilt and errs on the side of preserving life whenever he can. Moreover, he knows he's not in a position to be judge, jury and executioner and he prefers to leave that role to the legal authorities rather than take that power of life and death into his own hands. It's an understandable position that most civilians are in line with whether they talk a harsher game or not.
On the other hand, when written well he is also a human being and can be pushed beyond his limits. He's not a perfect paragon who always makes the "morally right" decision with a clear and cool head, he's a person with real emotions who tries his best to do the right thing but under enough emotional strain driven by enough anguish and loss, he can succumb to rage like anyone else.
It’s ok to admire the Punisher. Even Captain America has killed plenty of his enemies and he has used plenty of guns. In many situations it’s necessary and just. People who say the Skull logo is bad today will say Cap’s shield is bad tomorrow if they aren’t already. Many of these people already openly hate the American flag and freedom.
You think that the government, any government, is perfect and pure enough to be the only thing capable of deciding the fate of a murderer?
Every living thing has the right to defend its life and the life of others. It just happens to be reality that the best way to stop a lethal attack is with lethal force. If your Superman or Spider-Man with super powers then sure, you can easily subdue someone without harming them. A more realistic character doesn’t have that luxury, but innocents would die if they didn’t stop the enemy.
People who disagree with this are the same type of people who stop punishing other crimes and even justify crime such as theft. Crime escalates. When you allow lesser crime, more serious crimes become more prevalent. These type of people usually don’t want to allow self defence which basically puts them on the side of defending the murderers, thieves, and rapists. It’s no wonder the cities filled with people who don’t support self defence and punishment are going to shit.
I mean, nearly half of the country hates the American flag, so they also definitely hate Cap's shield
I'll never understand people who want to stop someone like the Punisher. If you let someone live and they go on to hurt MORE people, then YOU are responsible. Those people's pain and misery is on YOU. You might feel all high and mighty thinking that you're taking the virtuous path, but you leave arguably more bodies in your wake. Usually the bodies of innocents.
Doesn’t that also include authority figures the people whose job it is to kill people heroes bring in
A little known fact about the Punisher that goes with his Sicilian descent. In the early iteration of Marvel's Conan comics, it was hinted at the fact he is an ancestor of Frank Castle's. Conan was often referred to have olive skin and many geographic clues were dropped that his home country was where modern-day Sicily is. Also, if you look at the way Conan and Punisher were drawn in the 80s, their faces are very similar. So, the reason why Frank is so good at what he does is because he's got that Cimmerian blood running through his veins.
Get your punisher skull items while you can since they’re destroying his character.
Imagine saying it's bad to get rid of the worst of humanity
Liberals can't help but defend the worst humanity has to offer. If they didn't , who would vote for them?
I think you read too much into people using Punisher's logo. When I was in the army, deployed to Iraq, soldiers stenciled the logo on their vehicles. We didn't "idolize" a comic book character. We just thought it was cool. Today, when I wear t-shirts with the Punisher logo on it, I'm not making any political statement. Again, I think the Punisher is cool. Sue me.
Perhaps you and your brothers weren't. But they're are a vocal minority who do and that ideology can be scary for many.
@@TheDarrker vocal minority or majority whatever.
let cool shit be cool.
I agree, some people are total prudes the prudes crying about cops and vets reading punisher comics are just as bad as the religious right and PMRC was back in the 80’s.
@@agonleed3841 Hard to let cool shit be cool when people misuse the symbol
@@thomasjohnson1885 eh. I can inherit a bit, but then again...I just let it be.
it was less of a take over and more od.them adopting a look that honestly sisnt catch on well and wouldn't have even seen high status was it.not fpr.media making it bigger than it was.
Thomas Jane is by far the best movie punisher.
Hefty dose of Virtue Signalling there
He NEEDS you to know that ending bad guys is bad...for some reason
Makes the noggin' get joggin' huh?
The Dolph lundgren punisher film is severely underrated!
I agree war zone is the best one, but Dolph's is an easy second!
The last bit was the one I was hoping you would include. Arguably the most important and you delivered it as delicately as you could.
Would love to see Punisher, Deadpool and Wolverine team up.
What a lethal team that would be.
Wolverine wouldn’t team up with either of them unless he had no choice. He hates Deadpool because he’s annoying as hell, and hates Punisher because he’s an asshole.
I don't think the narrator really understands why people like the punisher. especially those in positions were their lives are trivialized and unimportant... and are trained to kill. people know all to well who the punisher is and THAT is why they like him. many see him as not some superpowered hero. just an average person taking the fight to the criminals.
The narrator would likely let his gf get pounded by a train while watching from the corner, that is, if he wasn't almost certainly into men
Nah bro, he’s still the goated Anti-hero.
I have an odd additional fact people often get wrong about Frank, he doesn't smoke. In tons of artwork, he's depicted smoking. I now have nearly every issue of Punisher, and in all of them, I think he only smoked once, in order to sneak a way to set off a bomb past security.
Yeah I was wondering about those pictures. Alternate of him?
@@Jagunco I figured people confused him with two other cigar chomping tough guys, Nick Fury and Wolverine.
It's just so silly to me that Marvel considered retiring the character or at least his logo because a handful of idiots thought to use it for whatever dumb political coups they were pursuing. There's really not that many people using the Punisher as some sort of symbol.
I will make my own symbols.
There wasn't even any evidence of that provided in this video. Think for yourself and do your own research
Your opinion stopped mattering when you said Warzone was the best then just went on to diss 2004 Punisher.
👍x10
Moral to the story, don't piss off a Marine.
Funny how what culture is trying to tell folks who they should admire and why. You do realize this is comics, right? Smh.
"The Punisher is problematic in our current day of age"
Gee thank for the moral lecon you giving us. You sure gonna love the new look of the Punisher where he is using sword instead of guns to kill people.
Anyone that uses the word "problematic" unironically loses most, if not all, credibility and should be ignored.
@@Rasengan578 wow you're some kinda autist huh..
@@wulfkriger3356 How'd you know?
To the final point:
It's not that many people don't understand that the authors didn't want the Punisher idealized; it's that much like the Punisher himself, they fundamentally disagree with the predominate Marvel narrative. They put the Punisher above other heroes not because they think the authors wanted them to, but rather, because the Punisher's brand of justice to them represents a more realistic & effective form of combating evil than is practiced by the (rather cartoonish in comparison) mainstream heroes. They fully realize that violence made Frank Castle who he is; they also realize that violence is a constant presence in the real world & that heroes who abstain too much from it would likely be killed in their first week of vigilantism if this were set in the real world, because real-life villains won't hold back & real-life heroes don't have superpowers. They do not altogether abhor fantasy (some of Frank's stunts are, after all, fairly unlikely, even while still being THEORETICALLY plausible,) but at least semi-realistic fantasy speaks to them on a deeper level than something which isn't at all believable. They easily identify with the series' dark, bleak, gritty nihilism because when they look around their neighborhoods (depending on where they live) or turn on the news (practically anywhere,) that is all they see.
So what you're saying is that none of these back the blue punisher fanboys actually like the punisher. They just like the Punisher they made up in their heads.
@@jordanloux3883 they like the character not the framing of them.
@@jordanloux3883 they like ennis's punisher, because that is the punisher.
The like the Frank Castle that made a deal with Death for a life long war.
@@wulfkriger3356 So The Punisher that would specifically go out of his way to kill people like THEM?
@@jordanloux3883 that would be the case
He is idolized by police and military because he provides an escapist fantasy where the trivialities of mundane legal work and post hoc moralisation gives way to the utter humanity in it 's pure, primitive and violent form. Where justice or retribution, however grusome, is always served - which anyone with a badge or uniform knows is not always the case.
Saying that they misread him might be true or is just your civilian sensibilities that are not privy to the horrors some people see in their line of work and cannot comprehend why they might feel an existential longing for someone like the Punisher to bring a semblance of balance to the world.
Your final point is the best. I am a huge fan of the character, but part of that is knowing that at the end of the day he is absolutely NOT what ANYONE should hold up as a good example for ANYTHING.
On the surface Frank massacres criminals because they are not given revenge. Under the surface Frank massacres criminals because he loves battling people as screwed up as him.
He's a good example of a nonce deleter, but I feel that is bad in your eyes as well
Militaries adopt his sigil because castle is a veteran that quite clearly displays symptoms of war induced PTSD, not because of his violent resistance against the moral status quo. Castle depicts family disconnect, dissociative urges and states, nightmares, and a difficulty living a civilian life. All of these symptoms are common among veterans returning from long deployments, and the punisher acts as a Familiar and comforting reflection of themselves overcoming these struggles to protect his community, and idea that most military personnel strongly associate with, as their duty to protect and serve and their training to overcome all obstacles is so deeply ingrained.
Take the origin of the punisher for example in Punisher Born, shortly after returning home in that run, we see him struggling to relate and enjoy time with his family, he can barely sleep, because now he has crossed that line in combat, he isn't the same man anymore. From watching his own men commit atrocities in the jungle, to the events during the ambush, Frank Castle never came back from Vietnam, which is something a lot of veterans experience.
Thank you for this common-sense break down.
A veteran with PTSD and (probably) other mental issues shouldn't even entertain the thought of doing some armed vigilante shit once back to his/her home country.
Psychotherapists or psychiatrists or prayer groups or whatever would be far better choices.
@@avaman1993 Not to be pithy, but if people with mental illnesses knew what they should do and made better choices, they wouldn't be as mentally ill. That's what's defines a disability - how much it hinders one's ability to function on all levels as a person.
Because if there's one thing foreigners, enemy combatants, and immigrants think of when they see an angry skull protruding on bulletproof vests, guns, and military vehicles, it's a deep conversation about veteran disenfranchisement by the US and PTSD😂
@@jigokushoujo1231 It's quite common for former military personnel to be in denial regarding their condition, or to simply refuse it in the grounds of them not wanting help for whatever reason. Military life changes everyone that enters it, and some of those people come home not wanting to admit anything is wrong, since their whole job is to be strong for others. In Frank's case, the only people in the world that had the ability to bring him back from that were killed Infront of him. Frank never stopped fighting the war because his life before the war doesn't exist anymore. Frank Castle is a name on some dog tags somewhere in Frank's belongings. The Punisher is all that's left of the man. This is explored in punisher born.
Frank doesn't want to get better because he doesn't feel like he deserves it. He let his family die in his arms, he couldn't protect them despite all the people he killed and saved in the war. He sees his actions as Punisher as retribution. He knows it's wrong. But that's why he plans for the last bullet he fires to be for himself, because once all the killers and monsters are dead, the only one left would be him. That's how he views the world. How he views his war on crime. He doesn't see himself as a hero, he sees himself as a part of the cancer.
Not sure how many people got to see it, but the Thomas Jane movie had a deluxe edition with cut scenes where Castle forces Jimmy Weeks (the guy who sold out his family and got them murdered) to kill himself. It was such a cold and badass scene, i wish they kept it in the final cut!
that was so good it made me mad they cut it because I didn't know about it for years.
Ray Stevenson is the most accurate Punisher no matter what(Ennis Welcome Back Frank-Punisher Max final issue) he’s a soldier doing his orders. There is no joy or anger predominantly and it is Frank Castle. Not saying it’s the best movie, but it’s a better portrayal than Netflix. Bernthal forgives too much, gives up his mission between season one and two and the biggest inaccuracy is the final scene of season one of two(I can’t recall), where he says “I’ll dance with you” and then screams as he shoots. Ray Stevenson was cold, calculating and stoic. That’s the li usher.
Daredevil didn't show up in Max. It was another Ennis run.
God I still remember the first time I read a Punisher Max comic after Ennis left. I was like "This really sucks. Like, it really really sucks. What happened?" and that's how I found out Ennis left.
Why is idolizing frank castle a bad thing? We should all look up to…he had the truest thought, I love Batman but, one dead criminal is one less criminalb
As far as im concerned, the punisher isn't idolized for his simplistic form of justice, judge, and executioner. Police and military adopted his symbol because as much as u may not like it, outside ur safe walls that is the only true way to bring "justice" to criminals and terrorists across the globe, tbh sometimes there's no other way to bring someone in other than straight doming there head, and the current justice system and in the marvel universe are far from perfect. Yes he methods are extreme and brutal but most of the criminals he goes after are far worse than anything he does.
Comment on this if you have a punisher logo and don’t go around killing people.
What I never liked about Jon Bernthal as The Punisher is, he never really looked pissed off enough to play the character.
For me, Ray Stevenson will always be Frank Castle.
On a side note i'm sad we'll never get to see Stevenson don the White Skull again in any form, loved his portrayal of the character and was heartbroken over his passing.
Having read the comics for decades, The Punisher is not some screaming, raging psychopath. He's a ruthless and very apathetic, mass-murdering vigilante.
He very rarely shows his emotions. He's cold. He's past the rage or grief. He just kills and kills. That's why for me Ray Stevenson is more closer to the comics. Thomas Jane is more of the heroic version of Punisher which is also great or kinda family friendly but thats not the comicbook Punisher.
Thats why imo Jon Bernthal aint that great for me. Maybe they will change this in the new show or movie if itll ever happen. But if Bernthal reprises his role, time to stop or lessen the screaming lol. And Punisher doesnt lose his cool, or even if he does he doesnt show it lmao
Even DOOM Slayer can show the hate and rage without speaking. That's what Punisher IS.
I'll always hate the MCU for not giving us a Capt and Punisher meet up.
The rooftop scene with Darededvil wasn't in MAX series. It was in Ennis's original run on Frank in the Knights series.
People also forget Frank doesn't mess with cops.
Unless they are corrupt, then they are open season as any other criminal.
Shallow interpretation as always
He's not "anti cop" like a lot of people on TikTok and Twitter say he just doesn't want them using his symbol or idolizing him.
The bad guys murdered his family right in front of him. He only kills other bad guys, really bad guys that deserve it. I like the story which I feel is very well written.
I think you should rethink your last point. Not everybody has the same values. I also personally think that justice is worth more than any life. That all comes down to values and what your perception of life is. It doesn't mean that the punisher is wrong, only that he sees life in a different way than other people in general.
The murder of Frank’ family didn’t create the Punisher, it only freed the punisher from being imprisoned to a simple life. War to Frank is Heaven, a simple life to Frank is hell. He is a apex predator hunting other predators for his own satisfaction.
The murder of Frank’ family didn’t create the Punisher, it only freed the punisher from being imprisoned to a simple life. War to Frank is Heaven, a simple life to Frank is hell. He is a apex predator hunting other predators for his own satisfaction.
Yeah the person narrating this video is a douche "let me tell you what to think" basically
Your comment about the Bat-Man not killing people is bullshit. He has killed people, because the simple truth is some people do all they can to leave you with no alternative. The Punisher differs because he considers no alternative.
Haven't watched any whatculture content in ages, but gotta show love when someone accurately (mostly. Punisher and DD had the RT talk in Marvel Knights Punisher, not MAX) shows love and appreciation for Frank Castle. Good job and great to hear Jules again!
The Punisher is not "morally complex." He's just a villain, like Rorschach.
10 Things People Get Wrong About The Mask like his best adaptations were the Revenge Of The Mask fan films which were comic accurate to a degree but still faithful
Didn't know about the fan films! They look awesome. Thanks for sharing.
I had a friend in high school that was very into the Don Pendleton novels. He was constantly telling me about Mack Bolan. He also had a lot of Punisher comics. They weren't bad.
A daredevil, punisher and spiderman collaboration film needs to be made!
*10 Things Everyone Gets Wrong About The Punisher*
_starts list with non-canon item impossible to reconcile with current comics_
I have 2 fav Punisher moments. One is where a bunch of generals send tier one guys after him and he refuses to kill them and gets captured. The other is an alternate universe version rescues some Green Berets in South America and they kill cartel dudes(in a realistic portrayal of an ambush) run by Crossbones. Later the Green Beret he rescues runs a punisher patch on his gear and "punisher" as his team call sign in Afghanistan.
Your last note is the reason they're trying to ruin the character.
when i think of the punisher. i am reminded on what the jackal from farcry 2 said about not falling victim to your own hype, because it makes you less of a man , not more. and he was a damn black market arms dealer saying that. he knows people like him all too well...
As an American, who regularly sees police and private citizens proudly and flagrantly don the Punisher skull: Thank you for addressing it in the number one spot. I have talked to some of these people and some do know what it is and some do not, but neither response gives me any pleasure in seeing displayed with some form of visceral and sadistic glee.
@@axele4832 , thank you!
@@axele4832 Wearing a shirt is very different from cops slapping it onto all their shit guns included
God damn I hate people like you.
Do you have the same terrified reaction when you see a decepticon decal?
#1 Disney hating the Punisher for having good morals and believing punisher fans are "awful"
Whaaaaat?! Someone appreciating Punisher: War Zone? Honestly of the 3 films it's my favorite. Not only does it show how focused and well trained in combat Frank is, but I also found Stevensons portrayal to be all in all definitive until Berethol took the role and was able to show more layers.
ye but berthal wasnt even the PUNISHER in his own show, he was more like wolverine than the punisher which is why stevenson is the definitive punisher but stevenson can still be rivaled because of berthals punisher in daredevil
Frank was a hurt and broken man and the death of his family pushed him over the edge
Frank Castle loves war so greatly that he made a deal with Death to wage war the rest of his life.
The cost was his family.
That’s one interpretation of the character - another is that the death of his family liberated him to be the man he became during the war: a remorseless killer in search of a conflict that gives his life purpose - in this case, organized crime gives him a perfect opportunity for a war that never ends…
The punisher is always gonna be my number 1 anti hero
There were 2 Batman / Punisher crossover comics in mid-90s, right around time of Knightfall. One story with Azrael Batman, who thought Frank and his methods were great; the other was with Bruce, who naturally hated him. Frank even offered to kill Joker, had him point blank, so Batman could keep his hands clean and Bruce not only refused bit saved Joker's life.
Great graphic novels if you can find them!
Yup. And in the second crossover when the Punisher caught up to the Joker Mister J was actually scared of him because he knew that Frank was actually going to kill him and only the fact that Batman stopped him was the only thing that saved his life.
cannot wait to see turning frank into the pg 13 mcu
If I wanna use the punisher symbol in my fire company than I damn well can
The punisher is the only hero I really respect. If you made a point to be evil your whole life and break free from the "consequences" of your actions I don't see the point in repeating the process. It is said that doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. Once a villain goes super villain the FMJs come out and evil finally takes a day off.
Sorry but I can’t agree with you…war zone was god awful!!! The Thomas Jane punisher was the best then John berenthal
I don't get why everyone hates on the Dolph Lundgren Punisher.
🙏
Considering what comic book movies were like when it came out the Dolf Lundgren Punisher movie isn't that bad. I thought the Yakuza leader lady was pretty intimidating.
i like it.
Every city needs a frank castle
Completely missing the point with the Punisher.
The punisher is problematic in our current age? Sure it is problematic to be sick of society that let’s criminals, offenders let off easy while
Law abiding citizens get trotted on
Yeah anyone who actually idolises Frank has absolutely missed the entire point he makes. It's one thing to respect him for his fight against crime, but even that would be a stretch because of his methods. And I'm pretty sure that that interaction where he warns those cops not to cross into his territory lest he find, and stop, them was actually created in response to the seeming wholesale support of him within the real-life law enforcement community. Point being that if the police had done their jobs properly to begin with, there wouldn't BE a Punisher.
As for the rest of the points, I'm pretty sure I was, at least tangentially, aware of almost all of them aside from the fleshing out in Ennis' Punisher Born and the claim that War Journal is the better film, but I'll have to re-watch it to really be sure. Oh, and I also had no idea what he was inspired by, so that was awesome to learn.
Yada yada, mimimi. A good drug dealer is a dead drug dealer. Period. Go chek : The Awakener. Te brazilian Punisher.
You sound like a cop hater more than a comic lover, or maybe both.
@@dadofducks lolwut
@@dadofducks ur one of the ppl that misses the point
Punisher Born is the best.
Frank Castle loves war so greatly, he makes a deal with Death to wage war the rest of his life. The cost is his family.
Also, new comics are shit.
We need more punisher
I hate it when you force in SJW Politics to what is just a Symbol. Adopting a symbol for a unit has NOTHING to do with the ideologies of the comic, they enjoyed the comic but didn't use the violence as a motivation. It's just a Symbol, stop reading more into it than that
Yea I hate it when people say shit like "cops who use the punisher logo have a secret agenda" I've seen police cars with autobot and decepticon symbols on them is there some "secret agenda" behind that.
Kinda just glazed over the fact that Wolverine is a killer too.
very interesting, informative and well said at the end there. Totally agree!
How many times has Batman caught the Joker? How many times has the Joker escaped and killed innocent people? At what point is Batman considered useless? That is why the Punisher is popular, he fixes the problem.
Definitely an interesting and, especially in Punisher Max, challenging character. Hope that he gets shuffled into a bigger part of the MCU, he really has the ability to stretch the narrative in new and exciting directions, i.e. what happens when the MCU has to deal with a sex trafficking ring (one of my fav Punisher Max stories) and challenge fellow heroes on how far they're REALLY willing to go to save the day (if you haven't read it already, that's why I like Black Summer so much for a one-shot)
That would be awesome but I doubt marvel would show a sex trafficking ring in one of their films especially now seeing as they are owned by disney
@@a.ym05 yeah man I think you're right, but damn was it satisfying watching Castle throw that trafficker against the bullet proof glass until the fram broke and she got tossed out at around 40 stories (I'm an immigration attorney that's worked with trafficking victims), hopefully they dig into the Max storyline and we can always hope Disney pulls a Miramax and puts out more adult content without the Disney branding that could be a separate, What If-esque pocket dimension of adult badassery
@@Ryanizer1000 100% bro
@@a.ym05 considering the charges against disney workers lately and all the grooming disney is doing.... a sex traffic ring sounds right up their alley...
It's The Punisher he needs no explanation 💪💀💪
It drives me bonkers when I see people with the punisher skill bumper stickers embedded with the "blue lives matter" colors, or the confederacy flag. Like it somehow makes them some kind of badass. And I live in Texas, so I see it a lot.
It's like, "Do you morons even read the comics? If Frank Castle was real, he'd be appalled, and trust me, you do not want Frank Castle appalled at you."
Cheers now cause Marvel just redesign the punisher and you gonna love it with his sword and ninja tricks.
Pretending to not like The Punisher doesn't make you a better person.
So you are saying everyone gets his origin wrong and we should instead take a reinvented tired deal-with-the-devil origin as what defines him? That's a really weak argument.
They nailed Franks ability to be resourceful in the Punisher show! 🤝🏼
While I am an unapologetic fan of the punisher, the idea that people would see him as a role model disturbs me as much as the idea they would idolise Wilson Fisk.
I mean, if you've lived in the streets and sew how bad it can get, idolizing castle isn't so bad
@@agonleed3841 the punisher and Batman are both examples of an ideology that makes a person feel righteous but doesn’t actually solve the problem. Frank Castle’s war on criminals is eternal because he is just dealing with the surface level of a problem that goes much deeper. The solution to the problem he is fighting is both political and economic, so whenever he removes one crime family or criminal cartel, another one is always going to fill that void - it’s market economics at work. This is why I mentioned Batman. The irony of that character is that he could be far more effective at reducing crime in Gotham (DC’s fictional representation of New York City) by leveraging his economic weight as Bruce Wayne than he ever could be punching criminals as Batman.
So you gonna love the redesign of the Punisher now that he is not longer using guns but sword instead. Now Frank Casttle is a ninja.
@@chaos4living676 not really. I like the fantasy of the Punisher, but I recognise that it’s a fantasy. Iron Man’s suits are far more realistic than Frank Castle’s war on crime having a positive outcome.
@@aidancampbell5644 Oh I see, you are one of the people who think that Comics lead to violence like video games, movies, books, etc so they need to be censored.
If you need comics to tell you what is good and bad, you clearly didn't have any parents to teach you shit.
He has a moral code.
people really love to idolize the punisher missing the point of his character
The dolph punisher was amazing. IMO only flaw was the lack of the skull.
I’m with you! People Act like that movie so bad when the only thing Really bad about it was the fonts for the opening credits. The kills were brutal, it wasn’t played for laughs, etc I liked it more than that Thomas Jane crap especially with what they did to Kevin Nash’s Sailor character…… just the dock seen alone in Dolph’s version was better than anything in Jane’s
Dolph seemed to be really into the character and they cleverly changed some stuff to make it not as "comic book" not that think it was the right choice but I like the skull daggers
Punisher making his debut in MCU Disney+ Armour Wars 2023 and then phase 5 Cosmic GhostRider Nov 2025
Will it be with his new redesihn as a ninja and where he doesn't kill anyone because it's Disney ?