The Big Debate: Rugby's Massive Referee Problem...
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- One of rugby's most controversial topics bringing the game to its knee's. Rugby media has increasingly revolved around criticising the referee's performance over the years.
Following the Rugby World Cup final between the Springboks and All Blacks top referee Wayne Barnes was forced into an early retirement from abuse.
Let's dive into what is causing this outrage - Is it the refs? the TMO's? the players? the laws of the games? the coaches? the fans?
Hope you enjoy this video. All use of footage is completely transformed to suit alignment with the research essay / analysis and adheres to fair use. If any issues please make contact with me.
As always thanks for watching! & please share with your rugby mates!
Email: uggyrugby@gmail.com
Outro song: Deadbeat - Tee Noah
Well-spoken bro, so good that others are joining me to back the refs, mad respect to you man 💯
Legend 🫶🔥
Agree 💯! The other trend which goes against the spirit of our great game, is the “acting” by players now to attempt to influence a decision, and the constant asking for yellow cards to be given to the opposition, we pride (or used to) for our treatment of refs and the spirit we play the game vs other sports….this is slipping 😢
You dropped this king 👑
Glad you called out TASanalytics, I know they think they’re doing the right thing by holding people to account, but the damage this has caused is catastrophic.
Thanks for the support legend
@@uggyshot for roasting woke Biden voting TRASHANALYTICS g my fav RUclipsr
The reason why the buzz in a stadium dies when a player gets red carded, is because professional players are still making lazy stupid mistakes when many of them are professionals that have had a pro contract since 18, its not refs giving them its players being lazy.
Looking forward to your perspective, Uggy. The past few weeks have exposed the uglier side of rugby world, which is such a pity cos rwc was otherwise fantastic
Edit: nailed it. I think rugby should look at the AFL here. Any onfield dissent gets marched 50 metre there. Rugby players should be forced to stop talking to refs at all times and make it clear captains don't have a "right" to speak to the ref. It won't fix everything but it's a start
100% keen to see what you thought 😅
I'm a big fan of your channel. Keep up the great work. Respect from South Africa.
Share him to everyone g far better than woke Squidge Rugby
Well said, the ref hate is becoming a problem! I think its more a problem with the laws of the game and a lack of transparrency on world rugby's part that it is coaches complaining but it is a fair point you make. But also poeple need to just learn to move on. As a South african i still at times want to blame Bryce Lawrence for our 2011 exit (something you would probably contest)...but then i remember what John Smit said about it. We can moan and complain all we want we still lost the game and went home and no amount of monaing will ever change that. We need to hold fans who take things too far accountable as well. It may be limited in what we can do but as far as im concerned anybody who threatens a ref should receive a lifetime ban from watching any live rugby again.
Ref blamers all 600kg Reddit mods g they cry online cause they can’t walk lmao
I like how as a fellow Wallaby supporter I’m also still trying to get over the Bledisloe time wasting penalty.
🤣 this video made me realise how dramatic I’ve been
I was bitching about the time wasting ruining the game when Raynal blew his whistle. And spent the next day in shock😮
It was a correct call, but what a time to call it.
The game shouldn't be like this, where we're shocked at calls every weekend. Blow the whistle for time wasting, sure, but do it in the first 5 mins of the game, not the last minute after 2hours of it. Same as at this rwc semifinal and final. The refs should've been calling teams for any time wasting from the kickoff, but don't start doing it with 10mins to go
It's the fans. We're the problem.
To repeat what I said on another channel, when we start demanding, accepting, respecting and applauding the RIGHT decision every single time, even when it goes against us, then we will be 80% of the way there.
Just look at the Kiwi- fueled controversy surrounding Aaron Smith's non-try.... the way some of the fans are behaving is the exact polar opposite of how they would be reacting had that try been awarded but in the Springboks' favour. 16 years ago their coach accused Wayne Barnes of matchfixing for missing a forward pass, now they are demanding that he play on when he misses a knock on? It is interesting to note that despite the level of anger over this one decision, not an eyelid was batted in that country when the England team had a try disallowed in similar fashion in the Woman's final, but against them this time.
It was the right decision, they both were, and sorry to take you up on this but Raynal giving a scrum to the All Blacks was the right call too and we need to support that because we have all been on the receiving end of this kind of play and it needs to be nipped in the bud.
Another issue is the sheer ignorance of some of our fans and so-called pundits regarding the laws. So many mainstream rugby shows have just become a place to bash referees and almost zero blame placed on their own team. After the RWC we saw this from New Zealand but most top tier countries are the same - unable to score the points to win the game so hang your hat on that single decision in the last quarter. It does not even need to be the wrong decision, just one you don't like....
Oath g speaking facts I stopped supporting the ABs now the biggest Māori Irish fan
Great perspective, nobody should have their family threatened for what decision they made on a rugby pitch.
However the use of the TMO has become overreaching in their job. I did see a theory on another channel that Wayne Barnes gave NZ a penalty after disallowing the try, only because he knew it was the wrong call. TMO put him in this position. I think the ref should call upon the TMO and not the other way around to make it easier.
Not a bad idea at all, or have a certain time limit to go back to a foul play incident. Sometimes there’s been 10+ phases since.
The drop forward at the lineout that led to that call was immediately and audibly called out by the Springboks. The mistake was that the ref didn't immediately call it. It was blatantly obvious what happened and he ignored it until it was too late giving the All Blacks an advantage. He gave them the penalty and then they went on to score a try through a drop forward/forward pass. The Springboks were wronged in this situation, not the All Blacks.
@@uggy Well that's the issue, we don't understand what a phase is. Our commentators and pundits are wrong, the term "phase of play" is clearly defined under the laws of the game but we have evolved to believe it means something different. People have come to believe that a tackle and clean out is a phase and that is simply not in the laws - there has to be a ruck formed to constitute a phase. And there certainly were not 4 or 5 rucks in the build up to the Aaron Smith overturned try!
From the point of the knock on to the time the ball was dotted down, there were 4 All Black ball carriers running into contact so what is the correct protocol? Do we wait for the officials to look through every single contact to see whether it escalated to a ruck or not, just so they can decide whether or not they are going back past the maximum number of phases, or do we support common sense and overturn a try that no team on the planet would accept if it was scored against them?
Bottom line is that the right call was made following a knock on 43 seconds earlier in the actual build up to the try. We all know it was not a try, so why are some people protesting that it should have been awarded?
Just my opinion and undoubtedly this is an infeasible suggestion but my feelings, as a kiwi, are that call should only be made on things that affect the game. Sure it’s fair that a knock on in the breakdown is penalised but it didn’t give the team an advantage so why do we need to spend so much time to tmo things like that. It also just adds another element of unfairness especially when some things are tmo’ed but orhers are not. I realise this is really not a great argument but just my thoughts. Great vid man keep up the good work ;)
Fuck yes can’t wait for this
You can’t please some people. The half witted negativity is unbelievable.
Personally I take it all with a pinch of salt because the game is too complicated and open to ‘interpretation’.
I think the confusion with cards stems from the fact that refs look too much at the outcome and not the tacklers actions and intentions. There are so many high body positions in tackles where no head contact is made and players get let off. It’s a ‘no harm, no foul’ mentality. But then circumstances change by an inch and Sam Cane, for example, gets a red. If we want to get rid of the ambiguity, we have to consistently insist on tacklers being low, bent and leading with hands (not shoulders).
As it stands, players know it’s a lottery so they play the odds.
there's 2 things we need to not do: first to send players off without replacement. have a replacement come on from among the reserves & award a penalty & fine the sent-off player, but don't ruin the game.
secondly we need to not intterupt play for things the video ref spotted. if the onfield ref didn't notice it in real time then deal with disciplinary fall out at half time or full time.
there are other things we need to not do too really
Love that idea - don’t ruin the contest. Kind of like NBA? Players get ejected, and individual punishment but it’s still 5 v 5
Problem is it’s not much punishment if a sub comes on. Red card bring player off bench after 15 mins . Yellow to 7 min. There has to be jeopardy for transgressing the rules.
That is why the ball straight in the scrum was stopped- the team transgressing the laws had a 50/50 chance of getting the ball back. If you were the Springboks you would probably knock the ball on deliberately if you could make it look a genuine mistake.
@@Wolf-hh4rv stil ruins the game. a stiff enough fine is punishement, or a ban or both. add a penalty, add 20 metres if an ordinary penalty is not enough. let the opposing captain choose which reserve player comes on. this of course reduces the bench by 1, which might also be a considerable punishment in the course of the game. we're homo sapiens, we can think of some appropriate response other than ruining the game
The problem with the red card being time based and not permanent is that there's no real accountability. Take for instance in Super Rugby Aotearoa with the 20min bin the players didn't really feel there's that big of an issue if they get red carded. Where it feels as though when it happens in URC the players have to own up to their mistakes which then results in less cards in the future.
I think we all agree that we don't want to see 15men vs 14men etc, but there has to be a different way of solving this as well. You also gotta start thinking of what happens if there are static scrums, if 2 tight head props are injured and static scrums are required the team that requires the static scrum needs to play with one less player for the rest of the game.
Hardly a fresh take but I'm in favour of limiting TMO involvement. Having a guy not on the pitch leading decision making really takes authority away from the ref on the pitch. The review system in the world cup made it worse as we didn't even know who the guy was for the bunker reviews! IMO for stuff that isn't foul play the only people who should be able to call it should be the ref and the line judges, if they miss it so be it. When it comes to foul play reviews the TMO should present the footage and identify what the foul play was but not be involved in the discussion beyond that.
I get the idea that giving a guy 10 mins to review a ton of slow motion footage should result in a more accurate decision but it results in decisions that don't feel accountable (whether or not they are fair). The laws also need to be more clearly and consistently applied, the cards given for head contact were all over the place this tournament. Players can adapt to a ref who is hotter on the breakdown or on scrummaging but they can't adapt to seemingly random red card decisions.
I like the idea of a challenge system like in cricket though. Give the captain the ability to ask for a review eg when the ref misses something blatant and it refunds if he/she is right.
Modern rugby union needs to change a lot. Fundamentally, it stems from the complexity of the laws. Right now the game is suffering from the Law of Diminishing Returns. Union is a confusing, convoluted mess of laws and interpretations that seems to get more complex by the year. This results in large numbers of penalties per game, inconsistencies in interpretation between (and even within) matches, more TMO interventions, a slower pace of game overall with lots of dead time, more cards for foul play, and games decided by penalties. In short, the game is too complex to compete with other sports for general viewership; especially in countries like the US and Australia. No, I don't want Union to turn into League, but some simplification of the law book is well overdue. I'm glad they adopted some variations, like goal line drop-outs and the 50-22 rule (to help open the game up), but more needs to be done, especially at the breakdown, scrums, and mauls.
Yep, I am tired of all this talk of the referee, during the 2011 Quarter final "the Bryce Lawrence match" I was at the height of complaining about referees, even wrote a piece that was effectively a conspiracy theory about how NZ set up Bryce to take the Boks out before they met them. Nobody wanted to publish it. My last rant was Bismarch du Plessis getting red carded after tackling Dan Carter. But then I just got fed up with getting angry. So now I just accept decisions for what they are. Human.
you blame guys like rassie for exposing corruption in world rugby. I will say, sort out the corruption, then it might get better. And also 10min sin bin for both red and yellow but with the red, the player cant return, must be replaced. If rassie could make an hour long video of bad calls in one game, then you know there is a HUGE problem with world rugby. 2 bad calls, yes. But 20 to 30 bad calls against one team? Thats just pathetic. It is about time world rugby gets exposed. They have been doing this for decades.
Rassie has come out and said his referee criticism hasn’t been done the right way, and he’s committed to showing more respect to referee’s…
People just need to stop having a go at the ref. They’re just trying to do their best.
Makes absolute sense bro!
Consistency is the problem. That call for time wasting was absolutely atrocious. It would be different if there had been a single time wasting call previously in the game. Consistency.
So true, consistency is non-existent
@@uggy Do teams have refs at practice? The NFL does, starting in the preseason.
2:04 Yes, these days fans tend to nit-pick a lot more than 8 or 10 yrs back. Overall they've become more sensitive and will cry out more often as a result.
If u heavily fine players for red card stuff, it won't be just the ref yelling in their ear BUT THEIR WIFE!!!! ...a much more fear inspiring voice :)
Also, great yr not afraid to call out tht TAS channel ...it's so one sided too, it's almost a provocateur at a riot without any consequences to itself (except easy emotional baity views)
Haha cheers! I would be too scared to go home after a big fine 🤣
And agree, doesn’t matter who you support, you could find 20 calls in a game to rant about.
"Yes it's Farrell, send him off!" 😂😂😂
🤣🤣 put that in just for you
Why is everyone so impatient? ADD brought on by cell phones? If it’s a big call let’s get it right. Sure NFL is a bit slow but rugby is fine at the moment.
Mate with all these cameras showing the blatantly wrong calls against the All Blacks, ( a disallowed try that they had to go 5 phases back to disallow, where the rules say 2 maximum, a winning penalty given to the wrong side, and that red card where no one was actually injured, and it was a mistake ) then no wonder people are majorly pised off. The ref should get a grip on the TMO at least. The ABs won that game even with a man down, it is a complete travesty.
Hahahahahahahaha TRASHANALYTICS DESTROYED G gonna love seeing his boring Boks go down next lol
🤣🤣 brooo
@@ho6277oath g worst RUclips channel of all time he loses it at me every time I comment bro ha ha can’t take what he dishes out probably doesn’t know how to win a turnover
He is obviously a Saffa and does not hide the fact. I do not watch his channel, but you cannot expect him to be totally unbiased and fair. Once you guys get ol' Goldie and the whole Breakdown team to be more level-headed, maybe then you can point fingers.
@@spervuurproduksies who even watches that trash anyway bro wingers don’t know rugby
@@spervuurproduksiesbro still not replying lol
20min red cards and captain challenges.
Trash
Are you a kiwi or aussie kinda like your chanell
Aussie 😢
@@uggy I'm a safer it's funny in 2000 to 2003 springboks were crap that wallabies 1999 to 2003 was so strong just shows you how things change in 2003 sa almost got a kiwi or ausie coach wallabies can bounce back
@@Lorenzo-iw9nj bloody hope we do!! Our domestic competitions are in shambles here… lots of work to do for the game
Squidge rugby is a woke troll who makes otherwise good analysis videos when he's not prejudging people. I find less value in them these days though, and his predictions don't have a good track record recently either.
TBJ far better than Squidge cause Squidge votes Biden lol Uggy better than both combined cause TBJ takes too long to make post match vids
Soar looses. Wane Barnes Referee was very fare. Great final.
Rugby union referees,is an Old boy's club, Wayne's been at best,a ok ref,there were far better younger guy's than the old dude's there,Loved in Argentina, Australia, NZ, ref's during the WC,also, couldn't stand the backchat,that crept into a few NH team's the TMO,was an absolute joke ,always thought,the guy with the whistle had the final say
Just my thoughts,
Reynal did nothing wrong
Why is Rassie a repeat offender? Pretty sure he hasn't said a word about a referee since 2021? Before that he also never spoke about referees. Not justifying THAT video but don't think he is a repeat offender...
Over the last five years or so he has had plenty of digs at referee’s. Could be wrong, but even last year I’m pretty sure he tweeted a video of Ireland’s forward pass try in the Autumn Nations Series.
He’s even said in a few different interviews lately, he really wants to repair his relationship with the officials and he got it wrong with his referee criticisms.
The point I’m trying to make, is that many leading figures across many different teams have called out referee’s and it’s created a negative culture amongst fan bases.
@@uggy I understand. I just don't think he is the guy to hang that jacket on. Again he gets the heat because of one video but for years now all he has said is we work with the referees. Unlike Cheika, Foster, Rennie, Galthie, Jones, Dupont etc who has had a lot more direct jigs. I just felt pointing him out years after as a repeat offender isn't right. But it is an opinion 👍
@@christoduplessis8177 true! I guess that one incident got more airtime then many of the others. When I looked into the post match press conference blaming… tonnes, but hardly any get mentioned unless it’s someone of high status like Rassie
Bro got banned twice lol do the research
@@RugbyLover86 And I referenced the 2021 ban in my post. The two match ban for social media is a valid point but considering ehat he got banned for.and what world rugby has let go from others I would hardly throw that out as solid evidence. But continue being a poes 👍