Thanks for commenting, Yes, you are correct that vinegar and steel wool would be a dye, vanish on the other hand is a clear coat topical finish. So dye soaks into the wood, vanish lays on top the wood. Colin
Well, dyes are just one alternative, some stains work better on some woods, and it depends on the look you want too. Great question about what woods do not work, and yes, some of the very hard hardwoods seem to take dyes less willingly. Pine is one of the woods that is easier to stain as a comparison. Thanks for commenting ... great to have you with us Colin
Man, you rock! I have learned SO much from you, Mr. Knecht! In addition to being very knowledgeable, and open in sharing that knowledge, you also seem to be a very nice person, and relay information in a personable manner, which makes it much nicer to listen to and easier to get through my thick skull! Lol Thank you! Just so you know, I am not one to comment on RUclips videos... but I had to offer my gratitude!
Hi Ian, very good question. In your case a stain is best because your table is going to be outside and subjected to a lot of sunlight over the years. Stains hold up much better for outdoor applications. The only other thing to watch is if you are using Cedar wood, the oils in cedar are such that practically nothing sticks to it long term.
Hi Tom, thanks for the question. It really depends on the project and the wood I am using and the look I want. If I want something a of a gloss, I will often use Shellac, if I am looking for more matte looking I might use Tung Oil or my favorite finish Osmo. Those are my preferences, other people might use varnish or lacquer. I just like finishes that are a bit more enviro friendly. Hope this helps Colin
That's an excellent question, and I didn't mention it in the video. You could apply a dye over top of a stain but it will likely have little to now effect. You would need to sand most or all of the stain off, then dye the wood before you would get the desired affect. You could however, apply stain over top of a dye. Thanks for posting :) Colin
Another excellent question, yes in fact you can mix dyes and stains provided they have the same base, ie water based or petroleum based. It often doesn't work out that well because the stain tends to eliminate the value of the dye, but in the right combinations, and colors it could be quite effective. Thanks for posting this . Colin
Very interesting, I have not even thought of trying it. I can't see why it would not work. Would love to see some pics of your finished work ... and hear more about how you use this. Thanks for commenting Colin
Not sure what you mean?? Brand ? I am using something that Lee Valley sells under their own name, hope that is what you meant, but if not, shoot me another note, Thanks for commenting ... Colin
That's a great question, I have not done it but apparently you can mix dyes with alcohol. The advantage would be that this mixture would not raise the grain. If I were to do do it, I think I would try a small amount of 60% alcohol. As for using these dyes outdoors, the answer there would be generally, no, these organic dyes do not hold up as well under UV light from the sun, so you would probably have to re-stain every few years. Thanks for the question, great to have you with us. Colin
Great video! Thanks so much. Glad I found this before I finish my Birdseye drawer fronts. This really clears the air for me on when to use dye vs stain. Thanks again.
wow, birdseye fronts, maybe you will share some pics of your work on woodworkweb so we can all see :) Thanks for posting, looking forward to seeing your project Colin
These dyes were from Lee Valley Tools, are sold under their own brand name, but the dyes are made in USA. The brown dye says is Aniline Wood Stain, water soluble power, Honeytone Amber. The ebony dye was also from Lee Valley (and is probably the best ebonized treatment I have used so far, I was very happy with it). Hope this helps Colin
That's a great question, and the answer is hard to define because it varies from wood to wood, and hard woods don't have the same penetration as soft woods. For depth of penetration, I actually cut into the wood with a sharp chisel and it appears that in the maple I used it was about 1/128 deep. When I did the same with the stain, you could see no real penetration. I would say pine or fir or similar woods would have the best penetration where oaks and maples would have less. Thanks again. Colin
Well, it does depend a bit on the wood, so is it an electric or acoustic? and do you know what kind of wood it is? Off hand, my suggestion would be to go with a wood dye, if you go to Stewmac you find that's mostly what they sell for coloring wood. Top coating also depends on guitar, Lacquer is common, but Shellac is also excellent, as is Tung Oil. Let me know more about your project and can advise better can even email me through the main website Colin
Since the dye penetrates so much, does this mean that it is more blotchy? Particularly, will this make a wood more blotchy than before? Also, does it wash out the grain in plywoods more than a stain?
In that case I would suggest a Minwax product called Polyshades. It's a one step stain and finish and comes in a variety of colors. Probably available at larger home reno stores like Home Depot, etc. Check that out, I think that will work nicely for you
Great question, to be honest, I have not tried alcohol based dyes. I like 2 things about them, they dry fast and they won't raise the grain. What I don't know is how well they penetrate compared to water based. My only suggestion, if possible, would be to try some on a part of your project that is hidden from view to see how it works for you. Would love to hear you you make out, would like to see a pic of the project sometime too. Great to have you with us Colin
Hi Bobby, good question. In your case you really will need to dye before gluing, and I would even give it at least one coat of what ever top coat you are going to use as well. This will help protect the dye, and make it easier to clean up glue after too. This method of construction is called pre-finishing and I do use it from time to time. Sometimes it's easier to finish the wood before it is assembled. We would love to see pics when it's done :) Colin
I have worked with wood for a long time and of coarse purchase stains at the regular places like Lowe's od Home Depot or Ganal Lumber. I never new that there really was a dye. I always assumed that when someone said dye they meant stain. Kind of like for a vehicle a goose neck versus a water outlet. Both can be a thermostat housing. I have learned a few tricks over the years but this simple coloring application may just solve some of the train wrecks I have had trying to get that perfect finish I hoped for but never got exactly what I wanted. Thank you. I did notice a little mixing up of stain / dye bit you had my attention and with the show and tell, no problem. So thank you very much and I have some projects coming up that I will be trying dye on. Tim
funny thing, where i'm from a goose neck is only a type of trailer hitch that sits directly above the rear axle. below is a link to a manufacturer who branded themselves after the type of trailer they manufacture. www.gooseneck.net/
Considering purchasing a beach house where the the entire place is paneled with what appears to be pine or maple veneer paneling that is NOT sealed, the good news. It's smooth to the touch but not laminated. Its aged a medium oak color bordering on the blonde/red side. I'd like to see the knots come through and not lose the variation in grain colors, but go either white or off white. Should I be using a prep to make sure to get the top layer clean, and would dye be a better choice?
You are right about dyes not being as color fast as stains, however this really means for things like out-door furniture, fences, house siding etc. Unless you will be playing outside in the sun, all day every day, you are fine using dyes (see Stewmac). On top of the dye, traditionally, laquer was used, and Stewmac sell that too, in a spray cans, very convenient. I personally would use Osmo, harder to find eco friendly, great wearing and easy to apply. Would LOVE to see pics of your banjo
It's really difficult to answer a question like this because it leads to many more questions before a recommendation can be made, like what kind of wood is it? what kind of a look are you striving for? Is this a valuable heirloom piece? do you want Gloss, Matte, Satin? Lot of different variable and many different combinations of finishes to choose from. My best suggestion would be to post something on the Forums at woodworkweb and I am out of room here already, sorry.
Dyes are nice to work with, but I have never had the opportunity to use them on a wall. Also, I have never seen a white as a dye color, so that could be a challenge too. About the lightest I have seen is like a blonde oak colour, which would be nice on pine, but it's still not a whitish color.
I'm currently experimenting with concrete dye on maple guitar necks. Haven't sanded or anything so I don't know if there's any penetration or not. Seems kinda chalky but smooth at the same time.
I use veneer to make finger boards (miniature skateboards) and I just bought some dye transtint dye. Any tips? Leave the veneer in a jar and leave it in the sun for a while so it can get it’s true colors? I’m using maple veneer
Great answered a lot of my questions I was waiting to hear about topcoats I have the waterbase die I’m thinking of putting a polyurethane over the top once it is dry?or Acrylic.
Hi Tommy, yes you will get lots of differing opinions, and probably all of them correct. When it comes to finishing there are many, many different ways. Good for you for doing this, it's a great way to get stated. We would love to see some pics when you get it finished :) Colin
If dyes are water based, they are more likely to lift/change with weathering? I am building a curly maple banjo. While it is fairly safe in my living room, if I am jamming outdoors in the evening (or with kermit the frog in a swamp), the dye may be prone to weathering. Laquering would of course seal the wood, but I prefer a non-laquered finish. Would a hard wearing oil (eg tung oil) seal a dye from weathering?
This is an excellent video. Non-Grain-Raising (NGR) dyes are available which help you to avoid the chief disadvantage of dyes. I like the Mohawk brand myself. This product is sometimes packaged as Behlen's Solar-lux. The dye works "like a charm" although it dries quite quickly so lap marks can be a problem in hot weather. Apply it in cool of the evening or use a retarder.
Hi Caco ... hmmm, to be honest, without seeing exactly what your are working with, I'm doing a certain amount of guess work here. Before you do anything, if you buy, try doing just a small, obscure section first. I think I would do light sand with 120 grit for a prep. Both pine and maple will darken slightly with age and stain, even translucent will tend to block some of the grain detail, but it still might look great. I think all you can do is try it. Hope this helps, email if you need more.
Nice comparison video. 10 years later it is a bit late to mention, but as stated dyes are not common to a big box store and I'll use in a pinch food coloring which works well. I've made exotic, in color, stains from both oil & watercolour tube paint and dyes from inks. I've never tried a fabric dye but why not.
Please help - got a mortar and the soak made the water brown. I dont know if it has been dyed or is it natural??? It seems to be African Iroko wood. Please help!
i have noticed that its not always black and white. For example, rusted iron+vinegar is a dye, but also a stain. More over the wood colorisation caused by chemical reaction/interaction (oxidation) in between the wood and the acid. That is also commonly known, it depends on the type, the hardness, and the age of the wood as well. The rust will stay partly on the surface as well, so its not a dye, not a stain, both a little bit both, or something totally different. However everybody call it stain.
Thx for quick reply. Will e you a photo. Have done white stain on unfinished white pine paneling and it aged beautifully, knots and all, but dye sounds interesting.
Hi, I'm thinking about building a custom speaker cabinet for my guitar and I'm looking for some pointers. The wood would either be birch or maple and I'm looking to get a high gloss translucent black color. If you google "charcoal burst stain" you'll see what I'm going for. Any tips or ideas you could give me would be greatly appreciated.
With the holidays I finally have time to watch some of your older videos. This one is very interesting. I did not know there was any difference. In fact I never heard the word "dye" before, I think. I don't know if the "dye" is only used in Canada or the US but I think the these to words are very often mixed up. I'm quite sure I have seen some videos on woodworking the last few years in which was used the word "stain" where, according to your "vocabulary" the word "dye" was meant. For example "staining" wood with tea, coffee, etc.
With a DYE do I still wipe it after application before it dries? Can a second coat of DYE be applied after the first application is dry if I want a deeper/darker color? If yes to a second coat, do I light sand between those applications?
This sounds like an ongoing interesting project. Pre-treating might be a good idea, but you are right that testing is the best way to see how things turn out. Keep in touch, am interested to see who this goes Colin
@woodworkWeb, I am planning to change color of our yellow/cream color maple cabinets. I would like to see the maple wood grains but would like the color to be in dark brown. Should I use dye or stain? Is it even possible to re-dye ? please advise.
haven't tested the wood yet but did learn that it's unsealed birch paneling (no poly coating) and it's been up for 30 years, so lots of sun and salty sea air absorbed over time. i'm thinking it will take on a really nice white wash as there's lots of variation and knots. been reading about water based stain, and from what i've googled pretreating is required...thought before i take on a closet to test?
Can I use the dye first and then layer with a diluted oil-based stain on top? Are there any consequences? I know you shouldn't mix a sealer with a stain, but does it matter with dye and stain?
hello, im building a dining room table as a gift for my mother and im gluing it together similar to a butcher block and what i wanted to do instead of using different wood to make an contrasting color, could i dye the individual piece before i glue it up? but then if i sand it to make it all even, will it come off? i really need some help haha
Thanks Colin. As always informative. Never used dyes but can see how much more of the character of the wood comes through. \\\\yes there was a couple of mix ups between the 2 but I understood. After all you are a woodworker not a pro TV presenter. The important thing is you got the message over. Enjoyed it.
Would it be good 2 Stain & Then dye it after the stain dries/ Not 2 Sure how it would look as I haven't done Woodworking in along time & I'm now interested in building my own Furniture & Wanted 2 Know if I can stain & Then add: The Dye after what should I do can I do both or just stick 2 Stain or Dye.What is best?
If you don’t want to raise the grain you can use alcohol to desolve your dyes instead of water, which has very little affect on the wood, even helps penetration.
How does the dye hold up to cleaners? I came about this video while looking for information on dying gun grips. The grips would come in contact with solvent cleaners while cleaning the gun. Will the solvents take the dyes off?
Thanks for the video. Just wanted to add that dyes can mixed with water or alcohol (or acetone). The latter come pre-mixed (at least in my experience). You can purchase them at StewMac or any of a number of other places. It's truly a pleasure to finish wood with alcohol-based dye. First, the alcohol flashes off almost instantly, so you can see your work progress without wiping. Second, no grain lift, which saves a lot of sanding, which I hate. Third (using a rag, not a brush) you can really control how much color by rubbing on additional layers. No waiting between coats. The chatoyancy ("sparkly-ness") of the wood is greatly enhanced. It's super easy to do. I recommend anyone doing an indoor wood project give it a try (they are not as color fast as stains). I use it to finish guitars.
Thanks for this comment. I got some "spirit" (alcohol) based stain as recommended to me for a little wooden stool I put together that is currently unfinished. I've only ever put a few drops of the spirit-based alcohol stain onto a scrap piece of wood. It seemed to go on really unevenly and blotchy, fully saturating one area and barely touching another. I'm scared of an uneven finish. I can't find any youtube videos on how to use this dye/stain correctly! Maybe I'll look under "alcohol" instead of "spirit". If you have any tips, I'd really appreciate it. I'm so confused!
Nice article & presentation of differing processes, Staining & Dyeing. I want to know which process, Stain or Dye, is least likely to run or bleed or leech into an adjoining inlay strip, when clear coated. I am planning to dye some walnut to look like ebony & inlay the finishes strips of it, next to inlay banding of maple. I was also wondering how the stain or dye would effect it's gluing properties.
Yes I see, it looks very cool. Any speaker boxes for guitars (or amps) have always been (good quality) plywood, of some sort, but these have all been quite large too like 24"x36"- to 48". There are some challenges in working with natural lumbers in large sizes, but you may be making something quite a bit smaller. My best suggestion would be to write this up in the forums on woodworkweb, there are many others who might have ideas and suggestions that could help, and I will see it there too. Colin
I have honey/golden oak coloured kitchen cabinets that i want to refinish. Do you recommend a dye or stain? Id like to make them a bit darker, cause i dont like that yellowish tone to them. Do i need to strip all the doors and cabinets down to bare wood, or could i mix dye into a top coat, and just spray the finish with a gun, over my prepped cabinets?
I'm looking to either stain or dye a set of speakers. Thing is,they are Baltic Birch.I'm wanting a deep reddish brown color to them with the grain raised. Is this possible with dye? I'm going to start sanding them soon and will be using a 400 grit. I have also heard of gel stain. From what i have read, Baltic Birch is a pain to stain though. 'm looking for the safest way to acheive this......
Ghostnotes1221 To be honest, I have not stained baltic birch so I have little knowledge of working with it. What I would suggest is that you do some testing with some cut-off pieces scrap pieces first, no matter what you settle on. I would be a shame to use something that you don't like after all that work.
Carmen Serrett Good question Carmen, I have had some mixed for 2+ years and it's fine, I don't even have to stir it. I do not recall seeing anything that talks about a shelf life for these aniline dyes, but experience tells me ... should be good for a few years anyway.
I have a cushman rock maple table i have sanded down to 120 grit and was wanting to do a dark stain but now I'm curious if i should be using a dye? I also have a pine stool in the same room and would like them to match. Is it going to make a big difference on colors if i use the same dye on the maple and the pine?
***** I could be Derek, in this case you might be better off with a stain because stains tend more to lie on top the wood so you would have a better chance of matching them. What I would do i find the color you want then try a bit of the stain on the underside of the stool seat (assuming it is bare wood, you should probably sand this a bit to make sure) and you could do the same on the underside of the table. This is one way of testing to see how close a match you can get. Hope this helps .... Colin
Okay thank you! That's what I'll do and let you know how it ends up. I've just read how hard it is to stain maple and prevent blotchy results. I was reading into the aniline dyes and was going to attempt that. If I use a stain probably a spray bottle would work best, since the table is quite large?
***** Another option for you would be to call the Minwax people to get their suggestions. You should be able to find their phone number and email on their website, they make the products and have tested them on all sorts of products and I'm sure others have wanted to match colors on 2 different woods so I am sure they would have encountered this question. I would certainly call them, I have talked to them in the past and they are excellent.
I never new there were wood dyes. You said stains last outside forever. What about dyes? Do you have to seal the wood if it is going outside, for example a large planter? Thank you!!!
Thanks, for the video and reply. The banjo will be very simple in design, so I wanted to make the wood a feature. I will send some pics when complete (still a long way off)
Can you add dye to the stain itself to accomplish desired color. I have oak stain that I am applying to a small section of a burned out floor. After the first coat the area still looks burned out. Adding another coat should make the wood darker, however the stain is so light that I am considering adding just a little dye instead of keep re-coating. Of course I plan to sample on a disposable piece first... Would you suggest this? What dye is safe to add to stain? Many thanks!
+Don Powell You can add dye to stain (in many cases) but only if mediums are the same, oil to oil or water to water cannot mix water based dye to oil based stain. One of the issues with stain, is that because it is ground up rock, it typically lays on top of the wood. Adding dye on top of the dried stain might not be too effective. To be honest I never tried that.
I was just refinishing a little dresser and am very unhappy with the stain I used. I was wondering if applying acetone after would help the stain penetrate better and look more like a dye. I think I'll try it just to see - but I wondered if you have any thoughts about it. I like the colors of the stains, but not the results.
Jasmin Music It often depends on what kind of a finished look you want and I always recommend doing a test with some off cuts if possible. In this case, if it were me, I don't think I would use the black dye and I am not sure what you are going to be using for the "transparent red". My only fear in using the black dye then sanding it down a bit, then applying the transparent red, is if you over-sand or under-sand an area it might look blotchy. This is a real guessing game, it might work great or you might be disappointed with the end result as these can be so variable depending on the figured maple, the type and brand of dye and the transparent red finish. I am assuming this is on a guitar you are either making or re-finishing?? Sorry, I just do not have a perfect answer for you.
WoodWorkWeb Thanks ! I know,I gave you too little description! Red like in this guitar...from pure clean uncolored flame maple ..... www.ibanez.co.jp/products/images/feat/620.jpg
Jasmin Music Yikes ... look at all the pickups on that beauty :) Off hand, I would say that was tiger maple with a red dye, then some sort of a clear top coat finish, could even be lacquer judging by the reflections. It's definitely a beautiful wood, perfectly finished, almost seems too good to play. Thanks for the pic ... that is a great help.
Thank You! You can make maple even more beauty! Just upload some pics of my guitar,unfinished... postimg.org/image/cvkq8ufdv/ back postimg.org/image/4c1cb371f/ front Is this good maple ?
Hi, thanks for your video. I plan on refinishing my pine wood floors - sanding them and then applying a light colored (white) dye (if it exists). I suppose I would then use a water-based protective finish. Do you have any advice? My goal is to produce a light colored floor - as light as possible - while maintaing the wood grain visibility. Thanks in advance for your advice.
I am living in Malaysia. I want to make a (something of a) cutting board table top island. I am thinking of adding dye, and coffee ), and wood stains and other things for color to some to some cheap 1 by 2's on the on the long end of the green (not the wide end) but the 1" end. Then, I will glue them altogether - hopefully they will be straight! - and sand them down only to a degree that is necessary, hoping the stain will not be removed. Question : What to use? Water based or oil based to get it as deep as possible, knowing i will HAVE to sand it down. What stain or dye or whatever can penetrate enough that I can sand (a little) and still keep the color? Anything I can do to make it absorb deeper? It's HOT here in Malaysia (34°C/93° F) and I assume this will help. Should/could I heat the wood? Any thoughts?
I'm currently staining a piece of poplar using a red mahogany stain, mainly to match my existing desk in my room. Should I apply mineral oil as a finish or can I just leave the wood stained?
HI Jerry, you can leave the stain but where there will be wear and tear, it will likely rub off in time so you are really best to seal it on with something to protect it (and you clothes etc). I have not used mineral oil, but I think for covering stain you might be better with a Tung Oil. I am not sure if mineral oil will harden or stay damp on your desk for many, many months. Sorry, I just don't have knowledge on mineral oil over top of stain.
Just watched your video on dye vs stain and learned a LOT. One problem with dyes that I've found is the tendency to get lapping when trying to use dye on a large surface such as a table top. I"ve seen suggestions that using an HVLP gun to spray it works better on large surfaces. Any thoughts?
This would be a huge time investment as all the walls have this paneling. I've done it in stain, but not dye. Was in a beach house that sustained a flood years ago, and their pine paneling that was removed and stored. New owner found it and reused part for their great room. The salt over the years created a coating on the panels that not only whitened it but had crystal like specs blended with the wood knots. Have never seen anything like it but would like to recreate that whitewashed look.
Hello again , I am getting ready to Use the water based wood dye on the Curly Maple banjo kit I told you about and experiment with mixing colors, Red, Yellow & Brown, to get the right shade. Can you approximate how much of a Mix, Pint? or more , I need just to do the neck & rim of this banjo? and help me determine how much powder / water to mix to reach that goal? Thanks so much. DanO'
MrDanoconnor Hmm you won't need much, a pint would be plenty, but even if you mix the whole thing, the water dyes keep really well (unless you are limited to for room). When it comes to mixing, start with the lightest color and add a just bit of red to it, like maybe a teaspoon, then same with the brown. You will be surprised how little dark it takes to start changing the color significantly. Carry on Dano, ... I am waiting for pics :)
David Stark I find I am using dye a lot these days, not rarely using stains (but I still use them) I have not tried birch but but both pine and alder (I use a lot of alder) have not shown me any blotching. Not sure if I am just lucky so far or that it works differently. I know pine has been a real bear for blotching on me, but pre-stain pretty much fixed that. The dye seems to be working good for me.
Hi. You may have answered this previously but I stripped the paint (my mistake) and original finish (a dark brown stain on light wood, for some reason) off a dresser that I want to use as a buffet. Many hours of work! How do you "finish" a piece that you dye? Would an oil work or do you need a sealer? Thanks. ; )
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for taking the time to comment ... great to have you with us
Colin
Thanks for commenting, glad these are helpful ... great to have you with us
Colin
Thanks for commenting, great to have you with us
Colin
Thanks for commenting, we appreciate your kind words
Colin
Thanks for commenting, Yes, you are correct that vinegar and steel wool would be a dye, vanish on the other hand is a clear coat topical finish. So dye soaks into the wood, vanish lays on top the wood.
Colin
Very helpful video on the differences between stain and dye - thank you! You're an excellent teacher.
Well, dyes are just one alternative, some stains work better on some woods, and it depends on the look you want too. Great question about what woods do not work, and yes, some of the very hard hardwoods seem to take dyes less willingly. Pine is one of the woods that is easier to stain as a comparison. Thanks for commenting ... great to have you with us
Colin
Man, you rock! I have learned SO much from you, Mr. Knecht! In addition to being very knowledgeable, and open in sharing that knowledge, you also seem to be a very nice person, and relay information in a personable manner, which makes it much nicer to listen to and easier to get through my thick skull! Lol
Thank you!
Just so you know, I am not one to comment on RUclips videos... but I had to offer my gratitude!
Hi Ian, very good question. In your case a stain is best because your table is going to be outside and subjected to a lot of sunlight over the years. Stains hold up much better for outdoor applications. The only other thing to watch is if you are using Cedar wood, the oils in cedar are such that practically nothing sticks to it long term.
Hi Tom, thanks for the question. It really depends on the project and the wood I am using and the look I want. If I want something a of a gloss, I will often use Shellac, if I am looking for more matte looking I might use Tung Oil or my favorite finish Osmo. Those are my preferences, other people might use varnish or lacquer. I just like finishes that are a bit more enviro friendly. Hope this helps
Colin
That's an excellent question, and I didn't mention it in the video.
You could apply a dye over top of a stain but it will likely have little to now effect. You would need to sand most or all of the stain off, then dye the wood before you would get the desired affect. You could however, apply stain over top of a dye.
Thanks for posting :)
Colin
Another excellent question, yes in fact you can mix dyes and stains provided they have the same base, ie water based or petroleum based. It often doesn't work out that well because the stain tends to eliminate the value of the dye, but in the right combinations, and colors it could be quite effective.
Thanks for posting this .
Colin
Very interesting, I have not even thought of trying it. I can't see why it would not work. Would love to see some pics of your finished work ... and hear more about how you use this.
Thanks for commenting
Colin
What is the shelf life if dye? Thanks for the great presentation.
Not sure what you mean?? Brand ? I am using something that Lee Valley sells under their own name, hope that is what you meant, but if not, shoot me another note,
Thanks for commenting ... Colin
That's a great question, I have not done it but apparently you can mix dyes with alcohol. The advantage would be that this mixture would not raise the grain. If I were to do do it, I think I would try a small amount of 60% alcohol.
As for using these dyes outdoors, the answer there would be generally, no, these organic dyes do not hold up as well under UV light from the sun, so you would probably have to re-stain every few years.
Thanks for the question, great to have you with us.
Colin
Great video! Thanks so much. Glad I found this before I finish my Birdseye drawer fronts. This really clears the air for me on when to use dye vs stain. Thanks again.
wow, birdseye fronts, maybe you will share some pics of your work on woodworkweb so we can all see :)
Thanks for posting, looking forward to seeing your project
Colin
These dyes were from Lee Valley Tools, are sold under their own brand name, but the dyes are made in USA. The brown dye says is Aniline Wood Stain, water soluble power, Honeytone Amber. The ebony dye was also from Lee Valley (and is probably the best ebonized treatment I have used so far, I was very happy with it).
Hope this helps
Colin
That's a great question, and the answer is hard to define because it varies from wood to wood, and hard woods don't have the same penetration as soft woods. For depth of penetration, I actually cut into the wood with a sharp chisel and it appears that in the maple I used it was about 1/128 deep. When I did the same with the stain, you could see no real penetration. I would say pine or fir or similar woods would have the best penetration where oaks and maples would have less. Thanks again.
Colin
Thanks for taking the time to comment :)
Colin
Well, it does depend a bit on the wood, so is it an electric or acoustic? and do you know what kind of wood it is?
Off hand, my suggestion would be to go with a wood dye, if you go to Stewmac you find that's mostly what they sell for coloring wood. Top coating also depends on guitar, Lacquer is common, but Shellac is also excellent, as is Tung Oil.
Let me know more about your project and can advise better can even email me through the main website
Colin
Since the dye penetrates so much, does this mean that it is more blotchy? Particularly, will this make a wood more blotchy than before? Also, does it wash out the grain in plywoods more than a stain?
In that case I would suggest a Minwax product called Polyshades. It's a one step stain and finish and comes in a variety of colors. Probably available at larger home reno stores like Home Depot, etc.
Check that out, I think that will work nicely for you
Found this 9 years later. super useful thanks!
Great question, to be honest, I have not tried alcohol based dyes. I like 2 things about them, they dry fast and they won't raise the grain. What I don't know is how well they penetrate compared to water based. My only suggestion, if possible, would be to try some on a part of your project that is hidden from view to see how it works for you.
Would love to hear you you make out, would like to see a pic of the project sometime too.
Great to have you with us
Colin
Hi Bobby, good question. In your case you really will need to dye before gluing, and I would even give it at least one coat of what ever top coat you are going to use as well. This will help protect the dye, and make it easier to clean up glue after too. This method of construction is called pre-finishing and I do use it from time to time. Sometimes it's easier to finish the wood before it is assembled.
We would love to see pics when it's done :)
Colin
its crazy and impressive you have over 10 years of quality vids
I have worked with wood for a long time and of coarse purchase stains at the regular places like Lowe's od Home Depot or Ganal Lumber. I never new that there really was a dye. I always assumed that when someone said dye they meant stain. Kind of like for a vehicle a goose neck versus a water outlet. Both can be a thermostat housing. I have learned a few tricks over the years but this simple coloring application may just solve some of the train wrecks I have had trying to get that perfect finish I hoped for but never got exactly what I wanted. Thank you. I did notice a little mixing up of stain / dye bit you had my attention and with the show and tell, no problem. So thank you very much and I have some projects coming up that I will be trying dye on. Tim
+tim horton No prob, thank for your comments Tim
funny thing, where i'm from a goose neck is only a type of trailer hitch that sits directly above the rear axle. below is a link to a manufacturer who branded themselves after the type of trailer they manufacture.
www.gooseneck.net/
Considering purchasing a beach house where the the entire place is paneled with what appears to be pine or maple veneer paneling that is NOT sealed, the good news. It's smooth to the touch but not laminated. Its aged a medium oak color bordering on the blonde/red side. I'd like to see the knots come through and not lose the variation in grain colors, but go either white or off white. Should I be using a prep to make sure to get the top layer clean, and would dye be a better choice?
You are right about dyes not being as color fast as stains, however this really means for things like out-door furniture, fences, house siding etc. Unless you will be playing outside in the sun, all day every day, you are fine using dyes (see Stewmac). On top of the dye, traditionally, laquer was used, and Stewmac sell that too, in a spray cans, very convenient. I personally would use Osmo, harder to find eco friendly, great wearing and easy to apply. Would LOVE to see pics of your banjo
Thank you so much for this video. It finally solved the conusion I had for finishing wood. God bless you.
I'm currently stripping down a guitar and wondered which is best at adding colour but maintaining the grain of the wood?
I have had some success with acetone as a dye carrier, it does not raise the grain and dries relatively quickly.
Thank you for posting this sir, by far the most informative video I've seen. These are the type of woodworking videos I look for.
mustangsalley79 I'm glad this was useful to you, thank you for your feedback
Colin
Thank you for a lovely and useful video! It helps a lot on my new project of the dining table! 👍👍
hi , i am putting in some pine skirting boards but want to dye or stain them to look like the OAK doors we have, is this possible?
How deep does the dye actually penetrates if I were to soak my wood into the dye? And is there types of wood which absorbs dye better?
will dying a bookcase have no odor vs strong odor of wood stain?
It's really difficult to answer a question like this because it leads to many more questions before a recommendation can be made, like what kind of wood is it? what kind of a look are you striving for? Is this a valuable heirloom piece? do you want Gloss, Matte, Satin? Lot of different variable and many different combinations of finishes to choose from.
My best suggestion would be to post something on the Forums at woodworkweb and I am out of room here already, sorry.
Dyes are nice to work with, but I have never had the opportunity to use them on a wall. Also, I have never seen a white as a dye color, so that could be a challenge too. About the lightest I have seen is like a blonde oak colour, which would be nice on pine, but it's still not a whitish color.
Fantastic insight into the understanding of wood dyes and wood stains
Keep up the knowledge sharing 👍🏽
Redd Boy Glad you enjoyed, thanks for the comments
I'm currently experimenting with concrete dye on maple guitar necks. Haven't sanded or anything so I don't know if there's any penetration or not. Seems kinda chalky but smooth at the same time.
I use veneer to make finger boards (miniature skateboards) and I just bought some dye transtint dye. Any tips? Leave the veneer in a jar and leave it in the sun for a while so it can get it’s true colors? I’m using maple veneer
Great answered a lot of my questions I was waiting to hear about topcoats I have the waterbase die I’m thinking of putting a polyurethane over the top once it is dry?or Acrylic.
GO with shellac in either clear amber or garnet . easy to apply , repair
Hi Tommy, yes you will get lots of differing opinions, and probably all of them correct. When it comes to finishing there are many, many different ways.
Good for you for doing this, it's a great way to get stated. We would love to see some pics when you get it finished :)
Colin
Nice job. Very clear with great support examples.
EMTdrummer Thanks for posting ... appreciate your feedback
If dyes are water based, they are more likely to lift/change with weathering? I am building a curly maple banjo. While it is fairly safe in my living room, if I am jamming outdoors in the evening (or with kermit the frog in a swamp), the dye may be prone to weathering. Laquering would of course seal the wood, but I prefer a non-laquered finish. Would a hard wearing oil (eg tung oil) seal a dye from weathering?
This is an excellent video. Non-Grain-Raising (NGR) dyes are available which help you to avoid the chief disadvantage of dyes. I like the Mohawk brand myself. This product is sometimes packaged as Behlen's Solar-lux. The dye works "like a charm" although it dries quite quickly so lap marks can be a problem in hot weather. Apply it in cool of the evening or use a retarder.
Hi Caco ... hmmm, to be honest, without seeing exactly what your are working with, I'm doing a certain amount of guess work here. Before you do anything, if you buy, try doing just a small, obscure section first. I think I would do light sand with 120 grit for a prep. Both pine and maple will darken slightly with age and stain, even translucent will tend to block some of the grain detail, but it still might look great. I think all you can do is try it.
Hope this helps, email if you need more.
Nice comparison video. 10 years later it is a bit late to mention, but as stated dyes are not common to a big box store and I'll use in a pinch food coloring which works well. I've made exotic, in color, stains from both oil & watercolour tube paint and dyes from inks. I've never tried a fabric dye but why not.
Great tutorial! Thanks for taking the time to make this video. I learned a lot!
You are an amazing teacher. Now I know exactly the difference btw dye and stain. Thank you 🙏.
You're Welcome!
Please help - got a mortar and the soak made the water brown. I dont know if it has been dyed or is it natural??? It seems to be African Iroko wood. Please help!
Can I use a fabric dye and mix with a say paint thinner or even gasoline and use it as a stain.
i have noticed that its not always black and white. For example, rusted iron+vinegar is a dye, but also a stain. More over the wood colorisation caused by chemical reaction/interaction (oxidation) in between the wood and the acid. That is also commonly known, it depends on the type, the hardness, and the age of the wood as well. The rust will stay partly on the surface as well, so its not a dye, not a stain, both a little bit both, or something totally different. However everybody call it stain.
Thanks for posting, this is good information
Great to have you with us
Colin
Because your dyes mix with water can you use lacquer over it?
Thx for quick reply. Will e you a photo. Have done white stain on unfinished white pine paneling and it aged beautifully, knots and all, but dye sounds interesting.
Hi, I'm thinking about building a custom speaker cabinet for my guitar and I'm looking for some pointers. The wood would either be birch or maple and I'm looking to get a high gloss translucent black color. If you google "charcoal burst stain" you'll see what I'm going for. Any tips or ideas you could give me would be greatly appreciated.
If you use a dye on wood and sand it later will it remove much of the color or will the dye go deep into the wood? Thanks
With the holidays I finally have time to watch some of your older videos.
This one is very interesting. I did not know there was any difference. In fact I never heard the word "dye" before, I think.
I don't know if the "dye" is only used in Canada or the US but I think the these to words are very often mixed up.
I'm quite sure I have seen some videos on woodworking the last few years in which was used the word "stain" where, according to your
"vocabulary" the word "dye" was meant. For example "staining" wood with tea, coffee, etc.
With a DYE do I still wipe it after application before it dries?
Can a second coat of DYE be applied after the first application is dry if I want a deeper/darker color? If yes to a second coat, do I light sand between those applications?
This sounds like an ongoing interesting project. Pre-treating might be a good idea, but you are right that testing is the best way to see how things turn out.
Keep in touch, am interested to see who this goes
Colin
@woodworkWeb, I am planning to change color of our yellow/cream color maple cabinets. I would like to see the maple wood grains but would like the color to be in dark brown. Should I use dye or stain? Is it even possible to re-dye ? please advise.
haven't tested the wood yet but did learn that it's unsealed birch paneling (no poly coating) and it's been up for 30 years, so lots of sun and salty sea air absorbed over time. i'm thinking it will take on a really nice white wash as there's lots of variation and knots. been reading about water based stain, and from what i've googled pretreating is required...thought before i take on a closet to test?
Can I use the dye first and then layer with a diluted oil-based stain on top? Are there any consequences? I know you shouldn't mix a sealer with a stain, but does it matter with dye and stain?
hello, im building a dining room table as a gift for my mother and im gluing it together similar to a butcher block and what i wanted to do instead of using different wood to make an contrasting color, could i dye the individual piece before i glue it up? but then if i sand it to make it all even, will it come off? i really need some help haha
Thanks Colin. As always informative. Never used dyes but can see how much more of the character of the wood comes through. \\\\yes there was a couple of mix ups between the 2 but I understood. After all you are a woodworker not a pro TV presenter. The important thing is you got the message over. Enjoyed it.
Thanks Barry, for taking the time ... great to have you with us
Would it be good 2 Stain & Then dye it after the stain dries/ Not 2 Sure how it would look as I haven't done Woodworking in along time & I'm now interested in building my own Furniture & Wanted 2 Know if I can stain & Then add: The Dye after what should I do can I do both or just stick 2 Stain or Dye.What is best?
If you don’t want to raise the grain you can use alcohol to desolve your dyes instead of water, which has very little affect on the wood, even helps penetration.
How does the dye hold up to cleaners? I came about this video while looking for information on dying gun grips. The grips would come in contact with solvent cleaners while cleaning the gun. Will the solvents take the dyes off?
The way I see it, if you put varnish (or oil) after the dye, it should protect it.
Thanks for the video. Just wanted to add that dyes can mixed with water or alcohol (or acetone). The latter come pre-mixed (at least in my experience). You can purchase them at StewMac or any of a number of other places. It's truly a pleasure to finish wood with alcohol-based dye. First, the alcohol flashes off almost instantly, so you can see your work progress without wiping. Second, no grain lift, which saves a lot of sanding, which I hate. Third (using a rag, not a brush) you can really control how much color by rubbing on additional layers. No waiting between coats. The chatoyancy ("sparkly-ness") of the wood is greatly enhanced. It's super easy to do. I recommend anyone doing an indoor wood project give it a try (they are not as color fast as stains). I use it to finish guitars.
Thanks for this comment. I got some "spirit" (alcohol) based stain as recommended to me for a little wooden stool I put together that is currently unfinished. I've only ever put a few drops of the spirit-based alcohol stain onto a scrap piece of wood. It seemed to go on really unevenly and blotchy, fully saturating one area and barely touching another. I'm scared of an uneven finish. I can't find any youtube videos on how to use this dye/stain correctly! Maybe I'll look under "alcohol" instead of "spirit". If you have any tips, I'd really appreciate it. I'm so confused!
Nice article & presentation of differing processes, Staining & Dyeing. I want to know which process, Stain or Dye, is least likely to run or bleed or leech into an adjoining inlay strip, when clear coated. I am planning to dye some walnut to look like ebony & inlay the finishes strips of it, next to inlay banding of maple. I was also wondering how the stain or dye would effect it's gluing properties.
Yes I see, it looks very cool. Any speaker boxes for guitars (or amps) have always been (good quality) plywood, of some sort, but these have all been quite large too like 24"x36"- to 48". There are some challenges in working with natural lumbers in large sizes, but you may be making something quite a bit smaller. My best suggestion would be to write this up in the forums on woodworkweb, there are many others who might have ideas and suggestions that could help, and I will see it there too.
Colin
I have honey/golden oak coloured kitchen cabinets that i want to refinish. Do you recommend a dye or stain? Id like to make them a bit darker, cause i dont like that yellowish tone to them. Do i need to strip all the doors and cabinets down to bare wood, or could i mix dye into a top coat, and just spray the finish with a gun, over my prepped cabinets?
I'm looking to either stain or dye a set of speakers. Thing is,they are Baltic Birch.I'm wanting a deep reddish brown color to them with the grain raised. Is this possible with dye? I'm going to start sanding them soon and will be using a 400 grit. I have also heard of gel stain. From what i have read, Baltic Birch is a pain to stain though. 'm looking for the safest way to acheive this......
Ghostnotes1221 To be honest, I have not stained baltic birch so I have little knowledge of working with it. What I would suggest is that you do some testing with some cut-off pieces scrap pieces first, no matter what you settle on. I would be a shame to use something that you don't like after all that work.
Do you know if there are any dye or stains that are food safe?
Hi, thanks for making videos they help me a lot. Once the dye is mixed whats the shelf life?
Carmen Serrett Good question Carmen, I have had some mixed for 2+ years and it's fine, I don't even have to stir it. I do not recall seeing anything that talks about a shelf life for these aniline dyes, but experience tells me ... should be good for a few years anyway.
I have a cushman rock maple table i have sanded down to 120 grit and was wanting to do a dark stain but now I'm curious if i should be using a dye? I also have a pine stool in the same room and would like them to match. Is it going to make a big difference on colors if i use the same dye on the maple and the pine?
***** I could be Derek, in this case you might be better off with a stain because stains tend more to lie on top the wood so you would have a better chance of matching them. What I would do i find the color you want then try a bit of the stain on the underside of the stool seat (assuming it is bare wood, you should probably sand this a bit to make sure) and you could do the same on the underside of the table. This is one way of testing to see how close a match you can get.
Hope this helps .... Colin
Okay thank you! That's what I'll do and let you know how it ends up. I've just read how hard it is to stain maple and prevent blotchy results. I was reading into the aniline dyes and was going to attempt that. If I use a stain probably a spray bottle would work best, since the table is quite large?
***** Another option for you would be to call the Minwax people to get their suggestions. You should be able to find their phone number and email on their website, they make the products and have tested them on all sorts of products and I'm sure others have wanted to match colors on 2 different woods so I am sure they would have encountered this question. I would certainly call them, I have talked to them in the past and they are excellent.
Thank you very much. I'll be sure to report my results!
I never new there were wood dyes. You said stains last outside forever. What about dyes? Do you have to seal the wood if it is going outside, for example a large planter? Thank you!!!
Thanks, for the video and reply. The banjo will be very simple in design, so I wanted to make the wood a feature. I will send some pics when complete (still a long way off)
Can you add dye to the stain itself to accomplish desired color. I have oak stain that I am applying to a small section of a burned out floor. After the first coat the area still looks burned out. Adding another coat should make the wood darker, however the stain is so light that I am considering adding just a little dye instead of keep re-coating. Of course I plan to sample on a disposable piece first... Would you suggest this? What dye is safe to add to stain?
Many thanks!
+Don Powell You can add dye to stain (in many cases) but only if mediums are the same, oil to oil or water to water cannot mix water based dye to oil based stain.
One of the issues with stain, is that because it is ground up rock, it typically lays on top of the wood. Adding dye on top of the dried stain might not be too effective. To be honest I never tried that.
I was just refinishing a little dresser and am very unhappy with the stain I used. I was wondering if applying acetone after would help the stain penetrate better and look more like a dye. I think I'll try it just to see - but I wondered if you have any thoughts about it. I like the colors of the stains, but not the results.
Please,if I wish to color flame maple in transparent red...whether it is necessary to put black dye and sanding before red dye?!
Jasmin Music It often depends on what kind of a finished look you want and I always recommend doing a test with some off cuts if possible. In this case, if it were me, I don't think I would use the black dye and I am not sure what you are going to be using for the "transparent red".
My only fear in using the black dye then sanding it down a bit, then applying the transparent red, is if you over-sand or under-sand an area it might look blotchy. This is a real guessing game, it might work great or you might be disappointed with the end result as these can be so variable depending on the figured maple, the type and brand of dye and the transparent red finish. I am assuming this is on a guitar you are either making or re-finishing??
Sorry, I just do not have a perfect answer for you.
WoodWorkWeb Thanks ! I know,I gave you too little description! Red like in this guitar...from pure clean uncolored flame maple ..... www.ibanez.co.jp/products/images/feat/620.jpg
Jasmin Music Yikes ... look at all the pickups on that beauty :)
Off hand, I would say that was tiger maple with a red dye, then some sort of a clear top coat finish, could even be lacquer judging by the reflections.
It's definitely a beautiful wood, perfectly finished, almost seems too good to play.
Thanks for the pic ... that is a great help.
Thank You! You can make maple even more beauty! Just upload some pics of my guitar,unfinished...
postimg.org/image/cvkq8ufdv/ back
postimg.org/image/4c1cb371f/ front
Is this good maple ?
sir, what do you think about tungoil?
Hi, thanks for your video. I plan on refinishing my pine wood floors - sanding them and then applying a light colored (white) dye (if it exists). I suppose I would then use a water-based protective finish. Do you have any advice? My goal is to produce a light colored floor - as light as possible - while maintaing the wood grain visibility. Thanks in advance for your advice.
great information and presentation!
I'm Dying to try it
Thanks Scotty
I am living in Malaysia.
I want to make a (something of a) cutting board table top island.
I am thinking of adding dye, and coffee ), and wood stains and other things for color to some to some cheap 1 by 2's on the on the long end of the green (not the wide end) but the 1" end.
Then, I will glue them altogether - hopefully they will be straight! - and sand them down only to a degree that is necessary, hoping the stain will not be removed.
Question :
What to use?
Water based or oil based to get it as deep as possible, knowing i will HAVE to sand it down.
What stain or dye or whatever can penetrate enough that I can sand (a little) and still keep the color?
Anything I can do to make it absorb deeper? It's HOT here in Malaysia (34°C/93° F) and I assume this will help.
Should/could I heat the wood?
Any thoughts?
Can I use an oil base finish coat over the water based DYE? Plan is for Tru Oil.
I'm currently staining a piece of poplar using a red mahogany stain, mainly to match my existing desk in my room. Should I apply mineral oil as a finish or can I just leave the wood stained?
HI Jerry, you can leave the stain but where there will be wear and tear, it will likely rub off in time so you are really best to seal it on with something to protect it (and you clothes etc). I have not used mineral oil, but I think for covering stain you might be better with a Tung Oil. I am not sure if mineral oil will harden or stay damp on your desk for many, many months.
Sorry, I just don't have knowledge on mineral oil over top of stain.
WoodWorkWeb I'm basically making a small stand for my computer so it can be elevated off the carpet.
Very informative with excellent examples and explanation. Thanks
Just watched your video on dye vs stain and learned a LOT. One problem with dyes that I've found is the tendency to get lapping when trying to use dye on a large surface such as a table top. I"ve seen suggestions that using an HVLP gun to spray it works better on large surfaces. Any thoughts?
This would be a huge time investment as all the walls have this paneling. I've done it in stain, but not dye. Was in a beach house that sustained a flood years ago, and their pine paneling that was removed and stored. New owner found it and reused part for their great room. The salt over the years created a coating on the panels that not only whitened it but had crystal like specs blended with the wood knots. Have never seen anything like it but would like to recreate that whitewashed look.
Can I put oil base polyurethane over a waterbased dye?
informative .i made a smoking pipe u think i should use a dye? i think i should its made of walnut root ?>
Hello again , I am getting ready to Use the water based wood dye on the Curly Maple banjo kit I told you about and experiment with mixing colors, Red, Yellow & Brown, to get the right shade. Can you approximate how much of a Mix, Pint? or more , I need just to do the neck & rim of this banjo? and help me determine how much powder / water to mix to reach that goal? Thanks so much. DanO'
MrDanoconnor Hmm you won't need much, a pint would be plenty, but even if you mix the whole thing, the water dyes keep really well (unless you are limited to for room).
When it comes to mixing, start with the lightest color and add a just bit of red to it, like maybe a teaspoon, then same with the brown. You will be surprised how little dark it takes to start changing the color significantly.
Carry on Dano, ... I am waiting for pics :)
WoodWorkWeb Thank You so much for your help, greatly appreciated.
Thanks for taking the time to comment ... great to have you with us
Colin
had no idea such thing existed, can you used red dye (on all the wood piece) and ebony dye on the edges?
Will dye blotch like stain on woods like birch, pine, alder ect?
David Stark I find I am using dye a lot these days, not rarely using stains (but I still use them) I have not tried birch but but both pine and alder (I use a lot of alder) have not shown me any blotching. Not sure if I am just lucky so far or that it works differently. I know pine has been a real bear for blotching on me, but pre-stain pretty much fixed that. The dye seems to be working good for me.
Hi. You may have answered this previously but I stripped the paint (my mistake) and original finish (a dark brown stain on light wood, for some reason) off a dresser that I want to use as a buffet. Many hours of work! How do you "finish" a piece that you dye? Would an oil work or do you need a sealer? Thanks. ; )