The original graphic novel back cover (I think it was) featured a host of heroes gathered around his grave. And if you looked closely, you could spot Superman among those paying their respects. Always got a kick out of that as a kid.
Starlin has, I believe, said that this was largely informed by losing his father to cancer, and despite all the colorful Marvel characters running around, the feeling of real grief comes through.
The 70s starlin stuff is some of the greatest comics ever in my view, I love them so much and have reread them so many times over the years, his strange tales run and his run on Warlock are so good
I love this! I'm a huge fan of Starlin in his early years, through infinity war. To me, he achieved an impossible synthesis: the cosmic of Kirby, the realism of Adams, and the psychedelic surrealism of Ditko all in one style and within single story arcs. It's crazy and I'm not sure anyone else has really succeeded as well at it.
You’ve got to check out Roger Stern and Mike Mingola’s Doctor Strange & Doctor Doom: Triumph and Torment graphic novel. Definitely one of my favourites.
I bought the original (or my mom did) from Island Fantasy at Market Square in Victoria B.C. during our yearly summer vacation, there. I was twelve at the time and Captain Marvel was my favorite super-hero based on the Pat Broderick, issues. It was a tough realization that he wasnt pulling through by the end of the story.
I love seeing how much love you give to the marvel essential line of books. Sad to see they discontinued it. Loved seeing the black and white stories on newsprint. Great format!
The Etigran-looking character is The Gargoyle. He was in the Defenders starting in 1981 and got his first mini-series in 1985. Issue #1 even has a Wrightson cover. Amazing that there was no lawsuit from DC because the Gargoyle is a demon and he looks just like Etigran. Of course, Kirby stole his look from Hal Foster.
I remember picking up the OG Graphic Novel off the stand! Mar-Vell was one of my anchor characters growing up and seeing him shuffle off this mortal coil like this was chilling; Starlin had set this up years prior in Mar-Vell’s fight with Nitro, post-Thanos/Cosmic Cube, giving his hero the chance to die like the rest of us do, not in glorious battle, but in bed, surrounded by loved ones, comrades and old foes. Shame they didn’t include the OG back cover of the GN, which was the actual last panel, with everyone gathered around his gravesite on Titan. This tale, especially for when it originally appeared, tackled Death as a personal subject, how it strikes down the best of us like an ordinary mortal. X-MEN: GOD LOVES, MAN KILLS would be a great follow-up to this! 🖖♾
YES! It also needs to be stressed X-Men God Loves, Man Kills has been reprinted in regular format trade paperbacks, just like Death of Captain Marvel. It doesn't look the same. It doesn't look as nice. The painted colors don't look as vibrant. As they did on the original glossy pages.
Jim Rugg's comment about Jim Starlin being aware of what the artists of the Studio were doing certainly rings true to me, because I consider Starlin a contemporary of Wrightson, Jones, Kaluta and BWS. He got into comics and illustration around the same time, and worked horror, raypunk, fantasy, and that Gothic Revival/Art Nouveau/Golden Age of Gift-Books fairy tale element into his spaceman superhero sagas. It's very Vampirella-meets-House of Secrets for Cosmic Marvel.
Seeing that Warlock Essentials reminded me of how we could only see things like Warlock, Micronauts, Star-Lord and Deathlok in the UK as black and white back-up stories in Star Wars Weekly. It often included stories from Unknown Worlds of Science Fiction magazine too (like the unforgettable War Toy). So much great sci-fi in the late 70s.
Jim Starlin was the largest influence on my drawing style, so you know that I consider this graphic novel the best in terms of story, with a nod to art with StarSlammers and She Hulk riding in the same car. YES hearing about color separation is one of the reasons why C K viewers tune in!!! PLEASE continue side convos of the "bones" of the industry. PEACE gentlemen, and God bless.
Before he followed Gil Kane on Warlock, Starlin followed him on Captain Marvel. The Kane/Thomas team had a long streak of creating or recreating characters that others took on as they moved to the next new series: Morbius, Iron Fist, Gullivar Jones, Man-Wolf (Conway script), Captain Marvel and Warlock are the ones I remember. I don't know how practical it would be for you to do a video on this, but Kane's role in the expansion of Marvel is really interesting; he was creative at a level that came close to filling Kirby's shoes.
The Death of Captain Marvel was big deal back when it came out. To me it was THE watershed moment in comics until Dark Knight and Watchmen came along. Still love the book and it is a story that has stuck with me since it came out. Great video as always guys!
I met Starlin at a con a few years ago and got my copy of the graphic novel signed. He opened it up, flipped around, and was telling me how he hurt his drawing hand a little before he started the comic. He pointed out that the small panels and characters are because of the injury, and how he wasn't able to do the large sweeping images he wanted to draw.
Fun video as always. Another interesting Starlin book to look at would be Marvel Feature 11, featuring The Thing and the Hulk. It 's from 1973 and was like a tryout story for the Marvel Two in One series.
I thought I read in Sean Howe's Marvel Comics: The Untold Story that it was Shooter who asked Starlin if he wanted to kill Captain Marvel in a graphic novel--suggesting the death of Captain Marvel was possibly Shooter's idea. And I think the orange Etrigan is called Gargoyle. If I remember right, he was on The Defenders with Valkyrie, Angel, Beast, Iceman and Moondragon...? That book was promoted a lot in my various 80s Marvel comics I've got.
BTW, my memory is that Jim Starlin was trying to process his own grief over someone close to him dying of cancer, and that is how this story came to be.
Ive been watching your videos for a while now and I want to know about this Trey Antley artist who is doing variants for Red Room, I think they look pretty cool! Ive seen the ones for issue 1 and 2 issue 1 had a lot of covers that i didnt see mentioned on the channel how come? I loved this vid, Starlin is one of my favorites from way back I read a bunch of his work is Gilgamesh II hated or thought of as bad or something? I always see it in bargain bins I liked it! I sometimes like comics or certain shows that are mostly disliked. I have another question about that. I also liked a Marvel book called Agent X but i never hear it spoken of. Anyways love your channel I am a ridululously loyal watcher, keep up the great work!
That Demon lookin character is Gargoyle from JM DeMatteis and Don Perlin, who took inspiration from the same demon-ish sequence in Prince Valiant that inspired Kirby
It’s funny how people think dc does graphic novels but marvel beat them by four years and they actually printed in this format while dc were still making it regular comic books and then made it in a trade paperback form then it was considered a graphic novel like watchmen and the dark knight returns
While this was first in a series titled Marvel Graphic Novel (numbered like a comicbook series), Lee and Kirby produced a self contained Silver Surfer story released in both softcover and hardcover book format back in the mid-ish seventies. Can't recall if it was referred to as a "graphic novel." I recall the 80s series of books were kinda named after the euro "graphic albums, but it ahkshully predates those. Though come to think of it, it wasn't published by Marvel, but by a mainstream book publisher, so there's that. Also happens to be among my all-time favorites. Wonder where I've got my copy stashed?
Thanks Reed Richards for only seriously attempting to cure cancer when it’s someone you know who is dying. I wish he had succeeded but that panel struck me as odd because it was written as if he felt he could really do it.
Just from looking at the pages you are displaying, believe it or not the color doesn't look as good as what it did in that original larger format first printing. I think that was the first time we got what felt like a fully painted book. Something that would become standard in later years. Lets see if I remember the original OG Graphic Novels? Death of Captain Marvel was the first. I think the New Mutants first appearance/origin was second. Third and Fourth were maybe Emperor Doom and She Hulk? Around that time the first bound published Trade Paperback I remember encountering was the Pheonix Saga with the Purple spine. All of the early ones are great. New Mutants is the weakest. It's just setting up the new book. She-Hulk is amazing. I think it was Byrne on his A Game. Emperor Doom was one of those great stories you sit and thing about.
Wait does yours not have the final page? The back cover is supposed to be all the heroes standing around the gravestone and if you look in the background Starlin put superman in the crowd.
Jim Starlin is so underrated as an artist. Even his modern day Thanos books that he did the pencils for are great.
The original graphic novel back cover (I think it was) featured a host of heroes gathered around his grave. And if you looked closely, you could spot Superman among those paying their respects. Always got a kick out of that as a kid.
That's right! I forgot about that! Good memory.
I didn't know this until you pointed it out. Yep, sixth from the right.
Starlin has, I believe, said that this was largely informed by losing his father to cancer, and despite all the colorful Marvel characters running around, the feeling of real grief comes through.
The 70s starlin stuff is some of the greatest comics ever in my view, I love them so much and have reread them so many times over the years, his strange tales run and his run on Warlock are so good
I love this! I'm a huge fan of Starlin in his early years, through infinity war. To me, he achieved an impossible synthesis: the cosmic of Kirby, the realism of Adams, and the psychedelic surrealism of Ditko all in one style and within single story arcs. It's crazy and I'm not sure anyone else has really succeeded as well at it.
I hope you guys put Starlin's "Warlock" stories under the microscope. It's great work.
Great job guys! Starlin's father passed before this came out and called working on this a "sort of therapy".
You’ve got to check out Roger Stern and Mike Mingola’s Doctor Strange & Doctor Doom: Triumph and Torment graphic novel. Definitely one of my favourites.
I bought the original (or my mom did) from Island Fantasy at Market Square in Victoria B.C. during our yearly summer vacation, there. I was twelve at the time and Captain Marvel was my favorite super-hero based on the Pat Broderick, issues. It was a tough realization that he wasnt pulling through by the end of the story.
I love seeing how much love you give to the marvel essential line of books. Sad to see they discontinued it. Loved seeing the black and white stories on newsprint. Great format!
Those and the DC Equivalent of them are amazing.
The Etigran-looking character is The Gargoyle. He was in the Defenders starting in 1981 and got his first mini-series in 1985. Issue #1 even has a Wrightson cover. Amazing that there was no lawsuit from DC because the Gargoyle is a demon and he looks just like Etigran. Of course, Kirby stole his look from Hal Foster.
Was he a demon? I vaguely remember that he was a mans soul inhabiting an actual stone Gargoyle. Who could shoot some sort of darkforce beams.
That behind the legs shot...Mike Grell loved doing that. So did Neal Adams.
100% here for conversations about the printing process.
I remember picking up the OG Graphic Novel off the stand! Mar-Vell was one of my anchor characters growing up and seeing him shuffle off this mortal coil like this was chilling; Starlin had set this up years prior in Mar-Vell’s fight with Nitro, post-Thanos/Cosmic Cube, giving his hero the chance to die like the rest of us do, not in glorious battle, but in bed, surrounded by loved ones, comrades and old foes.
Shame they didn’t include the OG back cover of the GN, which was the actual last panel, with everyone gathered around his gravesite on Titan.
This tale, especially for when it originally appeared, tackled Death as a personal subject, how it strikes down the best of us like an ordinary mortal.
X-MEN: GOD LOVES, MAN KILLS would be a great follow-up to this! 🖖♾
YES! It also needs to be stressed X-Men God Loves, Man Kills has been reprinted in regular format trade paperbacks, just like Death of Captain Marvel. It doesn't look the same. It doesn't look as nice. The painted colors don't look as vibrant. As they did on the original glossy pages.
He fought nitro after the cosmic cube saga, it was issue #34, the first Thanos cosmic cube saga ended in issue #33
Jim Rugg's comment about Jim Starlin being aware of what the artists of the Studio were doing certainly rings true to me, because I consider Starlin a contemporary of Wrightson, Jones, Kaluta and BWS. He got into comics and illustration around the same time, and worked horror, raypunk, fantasy, and that Gothic Revival/Art Nouveau/Golden Age of Gift-Books fairy tale element into his spaceman superhero sagas. It's very Vampirella-meets-House of Secrets for Cosmic Marvel.
You guys yammer on about production all you want. As a designer who never got to really work in print, I find the legacy processes fascinating.
Seeing that Warlock Essentials reminded me of how we could only see things like Warlock, Micronauts, Star-Lord and Deathlok in the UK as black and white back-up stories in Star Wars Weekly. It often included stories from Unknown Worlds of Science Fiction magazine too (like the unforgettable War Toy). So much great sci-fi in the late 70s.
I had read that Jim starlin had lost his father to cancer and this story was his way to process his death.
Jim Starlin was the largest influence on my drawing style, so you know that I consider this graphic novel the best in terms of story, with a nod to art with StarSlammers and She Hulk riding in the same car. YES hearing about color separation is one of the reasons why C K viewers tune in!!! PLEASE continue side convos of the "bones" of the industry. PEACE gentlemen, and God bless.
You guys have made me care about, and start to appreciate, art in comics (was just a story guy…). Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom.
Same here, I used to only pay attention to the writers on books, and now I have such a larger appreciation for the medium.
One of the early Marvel experiments with blue-line/painted colouring with line art was the Weird World with Buscema art
Before he followed Gil Kane on Warlock, Starlin followed him on Captain Marvel. The Kane/Thomas team had a long streak of creating or recreating characters that others took on as they moved to the next new series: Morbius, Iron Fist, Gullivar Jones, Man-Wolf (Conway script), Captain Marvel and Warlock are the ones I remember. I don't know how practical it would be for you to do a video on this, but Kane's role in the expansion of Marvel is really interesting; he was creative at a level that came close to filling Kirby's shoes.
The Death of Captain Marvel was big deal back when it came out. To me it was THE watershed moment in comics until Dark Knight and Watchmen came along. Still love the book and it is a story that has stuck with me since it came out. Great video as always guys!
I always thought of Stan and Jacks The Silver Surfer: The Ultimate Cosmic Experience from 1978 as Marvels first "graphic novel".
I met Starlin at a con a few years ago and got my copy of the graphic novel signed. He opened it up, flipped around, and was telling me how he hurt his drawing hand a little before he started the comic. He pointed out that the small panels and characters are because of the injury, and how he wasn't able to do the large sweeping images he wanted to draw.
Have been waiting for you to cover this historic graphic novel
Fun video as always. Another interesting Starlin book to look at would be Marvel Feature 11, featuring The Thing and the Hulk. It 's from 1973 and was like a tryout story for the Marvel Two in One series.
You guys should look at Elric and the Dreaming City MGN
I find this, Warlock and early Dreadstar by Starlin are worth reading/collecting.
Recillect reading somewhere that Starlin's father dies from cancer and he used this work to process his grief.
In the original graphic novel release(different version from the one you have) you can see Superman’s boots and Curley Q hair!
I thought I read in Sean Howe's Marvel Comics: The Untold Story that it was Shooter who asked Starlin if he wanted to kill Captain Marvel in a graphic novel--suggesting the death of Captain Marvel was possibly Shooter's idea.
And I think the orange Etrigan is called Gargoyle. If I remember right, he was on The Defenders with Valkyrie, Angel, Beast, Iceman and Moondragon...? That book was promoted a lot in my various 80s Marvel comics I've got.
BTW, my memory is that Jim Starlin was trying to process his own grief over someone close to him dying of cancer, and that is how this story came to be.
I still have this book.
I HAD THAT 1ST PRINITNG! IT WAS A GREAT BOOK! ART WAS GREAT STORY WAS SUPER GREAT! GREAT BOOK WHEN COMICS WERE STILL REALLY GOOD!
My first encounter with Jim’s Detroit Cosmic phenomenon
Ive been watching your videos for a while now and I want to know about this Trey Antley artist who is doing variants for Red Room, I think they look pretty cool! Ive seen the ones for issue 1 and 2 issue 1 had a lot of covers that i didnt see mentioned on the channel how come? I loved this vid, Starlin is one of my favorites from way back I read a bunch of his work is Gilgamesh II hated or thought of as bad or something? I always see it in bargain bins I liked it! I sometimes like comics or certain shows that are mostly disliked. I have another question about that. I also liked a Marvel book called Agent X but i never hear it spoken of. Anyways love your channel I am a ridululously loyal watcher, keep up the great work!
That Demon lookin character is Gargoyle from JM DeMatteis and Don Perlin, who took inspiration from the same demon-ish sequence in Prince Valiant that inspired Kirby
I never made the connection before but it feels like Morrison must have taken a lot from this for All-Star. Same plot threads.
This almost had me to tears
i bought this when it came out back then, i read and reread it till it fell apart.
@11:52 Jim, I am a printer and I'm always interested in listening to you guys talk about comic production.
8.07 : What they did to G.O.T 's Ned Stark charachter. This is what starting a story with a shock through your brain looks like ! ⚡️🧠 = 🤯💣💥
Just wondering if you'll ever cover something like Kagan Mcloud's Infinite Kung Fu? Seems like it would be down your guys alley,
It’s funny how people think dc does graphic novels but marvel beat them by four years and they actually printed in this format while dc were still making it regular comic books and then made it in a trade paperback form then it was considered a graphic novel like watchmen and the dark knight returns
Those Marvel Essentials books are next to impossible to get in the UK without paying silly money!
While this was first in a series titled Marvel Graphic Novel (numbered like a comicbook series), Lee and Kirby produced a self contained Silver Surfer story released in both softcover and hardcover book format back in the mid-ish seventies. Can't recall if it was referred to as a "graphic novel." I recall the 80s series of books were kinda named after the euro "graphic albums, but it ahkshully predates those. Though come to think of it, it wasn't published by Marvel, but by a mainstream book publisher, so there's that. Also happens to be among my all-time favorites. Wonder where I've got my copy stashed?
do "god loves man kills" as well
I have to respect that Captain Marvel is the one character they kept dead.
Thanks Reed Richards for only seriously attempting to cure cancer when it’s someone you know who is dying. I wish he had succeeded but that panel struck me as odd because it was written as if he felt he could really do it.
Yes, would love to see some shoot interviews with some colorists!
Just from looking at the pages you are displaying, believe it or not the color doesn't look as good as what it did in that original larger format first printing. I think that was the first time we got what felt like a fully painted book. Something that would become standard in later years. Lets see if I remember the original OG Graphic Novels? Death of Captain Marvel was the first. I think the New Mutants first appearance/origin was second. Third and Fourth were maybe Emperor Doom and She Hulk? Around that time the first bound published Trade Paperback I remember encountering was the Pheonix Saga with the Purple spine. All of the early ones are great. New Mutants is the weakest. It's just setting up the new book. She-Hulk is amazing. I think it was Byrne on his A Game. Emperor Doom was one of those great stories you sit and thing about.
Starlin's dad died
9:00 Yup, Jim Starlins father died of cancer, thats why the story feels more personal
Wait does yours not have the final page? The back cover is supposed to be all the heroes standing around the gravestone and if you look in the background Starlin put superman in the crowd.
God Loves, Man Kills, please
I have that graphic novel
Mar-Vell>Monica Rambeau >>>>>>>>>>>Carol Danvers.