What does this mean for Recreational Flyers? - FAA Community Based Organizations
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- Опубликовано: 28 июл 2024
- The FAA just released AC 91-57C which hints at guidelines for community-based organizations. How will this affect the rules for recreational flyers going forward? How will this affect you? How will the FAA change its rules in the future?
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The FAA just published a new document that hints at what Community Based Organizations guidelines for recreational flyers
In this video I am going to explain what Community based organizations are and what the FAA is expecting CBOs to have in their guidelines, and most importantly how this is going to affect YOU.
SHOULD do to fly a drone safely. Now, it also contains information about Community Based Organizations Guidelines.
It's a non-for-profit group whose mission is to further model aviation, and is approved by the FAA.
Recreational rules requires you to follow the guidelines of a CBO but until now, the FAA didn't approve neither CBOs nor guidelines!! This is what this document is for.
The FAA says that CBOs will be able to submit guidelines for approval that pertain to the operations of their users. For example, FliteTest will have guidelines for foam and model airplanes while the FPV freedom coalition will have guidelines for FPV drones. I'm sure there will be others too.
Now this may seem all nice and dandy but there's a bit of a catch. Up until now, the recreational rules were rather simple: 9 bullet points, or 8 depending on who you ask. Those can't change without an act of Congress. But you always needed to follow safety guidelines... it's just that none were in place until now.
With this document, the FAA is putting the onus on the CBOs to create new rules in addition to what is already in USC 44809 (that's the regulation code for recreational rules)... When the FAA asked for comments, I replied that these rules needed to stay simple. I was actually surprised to see that some of my comments made it word to word in the final document. But the overall tone of the document is still the same to me. The FAA is asking the CBO guidelines to be... well... too complicated.
And let's be clear. The FAA doesn't say: "These are the guidelines you NEED to have". They basically say: "In order for us to approve these guidelines, we highly recommend you have the following... wink wink"
It's like the mob boss telling you they're taking someone out for an airing...
Don't get me wrong, we need recreational flyers to be educated and doing the right thing. No one believe this more than I do. But, there's a fine balance between safety and overkill. Too many rules means no one reads the rules or follows them. Too many rules also means someone needs to enforce them. And let's face it, the FAA doesn't have a good track record of doing that to date. We have a hard enough time right now getting people to understand and follow 9 rules.
What are those new guidelines going to look like? Well, there will be restrictions about flying over people. That's right, there aren't any right now in USC 44809!
There will be common sense restrictions about carrying HAZMAT or weapons, or not flying carelessly or recklessly (the FAA inspector's favorite words), and not flying in airspace that's temporarily restricted. And some mentions of pre, during and post flight safety. To me, those are great guidelines.
And for those who will fly FPV, there's an entire special paragraph aimed at making sure you're proficient to fly your FPV gear. And a big emphasis on visual line of sight and visual observer. And communications procedures. And Preflight inspection, again.
Then for everyone, not just FPV pilots, there will be guidelines on maintenance and record keeping. And software updates. And guidance 
Наука
I bought a small drone years ago just before the rules were dropped on us. The only flight I ever did with it was a 30 minute test in my yard. i had hopes of doing wonderful drone photography, but after the rules and the added location rules, it became clear that it was far too complicated, far too involved, far too expensive, and too legally risky to bother with. I know of plenty of people doing what I had hoped to do, and not a one follows the rules at all. The rules are far to excessive. It is a "toy" you are flying, not a jet airliner. Hell, there are fewer rules for flying an actual ultra light plane or driving a car which kills thousands of people every year. I am just disgusted with it .
Greg,
Thank you for staying on top of these things and your honesty. I am a commercial pilot as well as a remote pilot. I’ve been in the “hobby” for over 48 years. I’m not certain how much longer the hobby can survive given the current mindset of the government and its agency’s. When an activity becomes confusing and the participants are overwhelmed by rules, the activity no longer is “fun”. Creating (in my opinion) unnecessary rules for people spending their leisure time engaging in this hobby is quickly going to transform it into “work” and extinguish any chance of perpetual participation or growth. When a publication similar to the FAR/AIM for flying UAV’s for recreation is published, that will be the demise of the “hobby”. I agree with your comment “keep it simple”!
Once again, thank you for contributions!
I have been educating myself at a fast rate when I first bought my drone. And your statement is how I am starting to feel. Also, I am a gamer, and this just makes me want to sit in front of a computer instead of being outside. Sad but true
I totally agree with you too, and who more than you with your great experience. thank you
Agree! I completed Gregs part 107 course a few weeks ago and after all said and done I'm like I don't know if it's worth be hassled by a hostile uneducated public AND local non FAA authorities.
I have to agree, I got into drones just to supplement my photography and get those great photos from above. Now I wonder if it's even worth it. And by the way I'm a stickler about following the rules. Not sure what to do now.
@@michaelcilenti8653 Same here man. I have my 107 and an Air 2S and and increasing interest in aerial photography. But now, I'm not sure how much flight time I'll be getting next spring. This crap is exhausting. And that's the point.
These types of restraints push people to counter them and create ways to bypass them.
I'll be one of them.
Bingo ✅
I’m glad I found Pilot Institute. Greg is making a community and being a great example for advocating for the young drone industry. What we’re doing today will carry through for generations
My fear is exactly what you said. The rules will be too complicated which will make people ignore them and do stupid or dangerous things which will case more rules and limits on recreational and commercial pilots. This is a slippery slope indeed. Thanks for keeping us up to date on what is going on.
What stupid or dangerous things? I've never heard of a drone causing any accident or collision that caused a person to get injured.
Can you elaborate on exactly what "stupid or dangerous" thing a pilot will do by ignoring a rule that they wouldn't do had the rule not existed?
@@FuckPedophileBiden I've flown into my nuts at a pretty good speed with my race quad while trying to fly between my legs. Technically that might count, but It was more hilarious than anything, so I got back up and did it again, and again occasionally hitting my legs, but getting better and better.
@@jakegarrett8109 I was about to say that flying between your legs would take a big pair of 🥜 but never mind…
Great explanation, Greg. Thanks for sharing. I agree wholeheartedly with you, the FAA needs to keep the rules as simple as possible.
I just put my drone in it's case, and stored it in the closet. I've always been horrible at taking tests, studying for tests, and learning new information that has thousands of different subtopics inside each one. I can't even get a clue about how to read a sectional chart, so I'm done with drones, done with being stressed about it, and done with having to jump through hoops to have a small bit of fun and enjoyment in my life. In short, I'm done!
I fly my Air 2s a lot less now days because of the FAA rules and continued threats of new/ more vague rules.
Less freedom
In their wisdom, they became fools… or
In their wisdom, they became rules.
You’re absolutely correct, “Keep it simple.”
If they keep it simple, the hobby will continue to flourish.
Every time I meet a drone flyer, I ask them if they follow the Faa guidelines, every single one of them has said the same thing, "there's rules?" and then, "get lost".
I always laugh at the FPV direct line of sight rule. The only people that follow it are high end aerial cinematographers that have the budget to pay an observer on top of the gimbal/camera operator. Nobody else does that.
Even then law enforcement (with their big heavy ones that would cause massive damage/injury or worse), they are exempt... Seems like rules for thee but not for me.
@@jakegarrett8109 They’re exempt? What a joke. Obviously it’s not about safety then.
@@VictoryAviation Yep, rules are rarely about safety these days (shocking I know, its like we already had laws that say don't do harm, don't injure people, don't destroy property... huh, its like those were already covered).
When government is allowed to do something you aren't, then you always have to ask "why?"
Also, as a LoS observer I can't tell what's going on any better than inside googles. It's actually worse. A 5" quad that flies around a 14" tree trunk actually goes out of LoS sight. So no flying around a tree!
Yep, the VLOS requirement is violated in about 90% of RUclips drone videos.
It may be a simple thing for most people, but for some others, that "software updates" mention could be huge. There are often very good reasons NOT to install the latest firmware update. As many people have learned the hard way, sometimes updates break as many things as they fix, and it can be best to wait 6 months after an update before installing it so as not to be a beta tester for something that didn't work as advertised.
Yeah, not even the US government does this... If they want to tell me to put experimental beta software that has different flight parameters, tuning, and performance than what has been rock solid for years, then they need to go update their most important US AF and US Navy aircraft. Oh, oh wait they do thousands of man hour testing on each platform before they even push certified updates on minor components even? Huh, seems like impossible burden to me, else they better do that with real aircraft too and watch them tank their reliability metrics...
These days the end user is too often the only quality control a product has. I costs companies less to send a new piece of junk than to hire the employees to make sure it’s not junk in the first place.
Land of the free.......home of every law they could ever think of.
I just purchased my first drone. I registered the drone with the FAA and just got the little UAS safety certificate. The more I learn the more I'm wishing I could just take it back. I understand the need for some regulation but jeez it just feels like the .gov folks just want to suck the life out of everything.
They did with drones, they are funsuckers for sure. Too many rules and too many variants of rules that are not clear.
Vote for less government. Look at those in power that need to add restrictions and work around current laws mean to protect freedoms.
@@Thunderbyrd. Its the same will any outdoor hobbies these days and we all just keep fighting in our small groups instead of looking at the real problem and voting for less gov.
Ronald Reagan said, “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’”
Exactly, you buy it to figure out one week later you can't really legally fly it.
Greg, your videos keep getting better and better! Excellent!
I am a delivery driver in Colorado Springs, CO and recently obtained my part 107 certification. I love talking with customers about how to fly anything r/c the proper way. It supprises me how many people could care less and actually do as you stated and "just fly" regardless of living in close proximity to a class C airport as well as 1 army and 3 air force bases.
What does being part 107 have to do with new recreational rules? The proper way to fly for fun is nothing at all like the proper way for part 107. What used to be a park flier before parks banned everything can fly perfectly safe lower than tree tops in large yard or park right next to an airport and pose no threat. So far in history the only RC aircraft that have been able to create actual problems for manned aircraft have been from the military. Yet people continue to accept these rules with out any justification and then have the audacity to put people down for "just flying" when just flying has worked just fine for many many years. Sure there have been some mishaps and issues but they are extremely rare and should be handled on an individual basis and not used as justification to eventually shut down the whole hobby. That's where we are headed. Look at most other outdoor hobbies and open your eyes up. This is the not a thank god some people will finally know how to be safe moment, its the door opening to just shutting it all down.
Its safer than any other form of aviation already with what people are doing right now.
@@Clickmaster5k You are clearly fighting the wrong people here. That was a short post saying "...recently obtained....." implying the transition from a recreational pilot to an educated professional one. If you are just going to ramble on like in your third sentence in an attempt to cyber bully then please, don't waste my time. You OBVIOUSLY don't care to be educated or spread good knowledge. You are most likely some old man that is jelious I am actually making a difference in my community. Good day to you Mr. Scrooge.
@@lemming1035 "educated professional one" & "don't waste my time" have bit of an arrogant tone that makes it sound like you are batter than everyone else for getting part 107. My exact point was that there is nothing to indicate that part 107 or any of the rest of these rules have had any real impact on model aviation safety because long before you got educated it was already pretty safe. In addition its pretty easy to be safe with out a part 107 as demonstrated by the many years model aviation has existed with out it. On top of that you can learn and know all of the things in part 107 with out getting certified. Stop acting like part 107 makes you better than everyone else and just be part of the community. There is already so much division and its why we are her. The club people dont like the FPV people the part 107 think they are pros now. Fixed with blame quads for everything. Its a problem. You make a lot of assumptions and say its so obvious that you now know everything about me but completely miss my point. Part 107 does not make you better than or know more than any other RC pilot, it just means you can now get paid for rc flying. I would think you would know that if you just got your part 107.
Now lets stop arguing and just more people fighting all these stupid rules so more people can get to playing with all sorts of rc aircraft in all sorts of ways.
@@Clickmaster5k You are the Troll that started the negative tone. I fly rc airplanes and helicopters and have since analog. Do you know what analog is? Of course you do because you are an angry...old man. You never asked my qualifications, only the assumption that getting a part 107 certification means I fit a specific UAS group that you must not be a part of. Try going outside and flying with the kids in your neighborhood. You obviously don't care about rules (like these community post guidelines) so go show them they can be just as destructive to their fellow community.
@@lemming1035 You make a lot of assumptions to make your self feel better. I never assumed you only did one thing. I just stated what part 107 is for since you seem confused. You think its some stamp of making you educated and better than everyone else. Its just a way to tax people getting paid for flying cameras. Maybe you should get a certification in the definition of the word troll since you also don't under stand what that is. Stop making assumptions and calling people names. You are not contributing anything to the community by doing that. So far all I see you doing is contributing to your own ego and that's been the only point iv been trying to make. Part 107 has not been shown to make anyone any safer. None of the rest of these regulations will be able to show they added any safety either because its already a super safe hobby.
Greg thanks. The rules are too complicated and people are really confused already. So much so that some try to follow and can't and others just give up and make up their own rules or lack thereof. If they just stick to the very basics for recreational, I think it would help - (no) flight over people and moving cars, 400' flight ceiling, VLOS, night strobe. This way we could have better safety and hopefully higher compliance.
What if you are in the mountains over 400’. Dji sucks for that reason
@@jackcorn4020 it's +400' to your takeoff point in the ground.
I didn’t know airplanes or helicopters couldn’t fly over people and moving cars.
I've been flying radio-controlled model airplanes since 1963. In that 59 year time span, I've never seen an incident between a model aircraft and a full-scale aircraft, not even close. Make all the rules you want. I'll keep partying like it's 1969..
Same here, been flying RC airplanes since 1994. Only one actual flying incident that I’m aware that caused injury, zero property damage except to the aircraft itself, and zero incidents with manned aircraft. And that’s tens of thousands of flight hour for my club with varying skill levels and all sorts of aircraft. Personally I think all this legislation is more about paving the way for widespread commercial use and less about interference with manned flights.
More rules great . Death by thousand cuts
Thanks for this Greg. I think it's pretty clear at this point that the FAA's main goal is to simply legislate the hobby out of existence. Especially FPV pilots. And let's not forget how much danger the RID is putting pilots in. I was working on my 107 (using your course) Now? Well... I'm giving that a rethink. What's the point if I can't fly the thing?
Valid point!
You could just fly your model airplane without the government giving a crap. If they get a foothold now,it will only be a matter of time when we can't even buy them.
More, MOre…and MORE. When it STARTS..IT NEVER STOPS, only gets WORSE.
Thank you for the update. I'm an ATP and this spring got a 107 license. It is easy to overwhelm people with the rules. You touch on the careless and reckless clause that is the fall back if the FAA wants to take an enforcement action against a pilot. A group that needs education is local law enforcement. I was filming a rail yard one day, no people or moving vehicles, and a leo stop and told me that the railroad police might stop me. Nothing happened, but I was well within the 107 regulations.
Its strange how they justify random things, then let those guys do their jobs... No reason to stop someone to say "but someone else might stop you", yeah well if that's the case then I'll just wait for the other guy IF they even care or even notice, lol
I love the comical, yet serious aspects of your presentation. At this point I’m wondering if I should put a dead chicken in a bag, and wave it over my head in a pre-flight dance in order to prevent any mishaps.😂
When the FAA takes something that should be simple, but instead makes it very complicated, it looks like that particular department in the FAA is just trying to justify their job.
Greg thanks again for taking the time to keep the responsable hobbyists and everyone informed on what’s really going on with all this changes and for me ridiculous, I think they’re putting everything as complicated as can be to the point for me as a recreational flyer to quit the hobby. I assume at the end must be some pressure from the big companies demanding the air space left for the hobbyists to their own business needs which at the end represents incomes. So sad
Does this apply to drones like the Mini under 250 grams or is it mainly for sUAV’s that have to be registered for recreational use?
Well, (sigh), the only way I feel to safely avoid the Agency's scrutiny and wrath is to operate a drone mission as I would an FAR 91 international flight operation which requires registration, a fully-documented maintenance & training program, pre-flight planning, flight-risk assessment, clearance, execution, adhering to the guidelines (FARs), contingency planning for emergencies, mission completion with post-flight procedures, aircraft inspection, logbook entries - everything documented and compliant. And we haven't even incorporated ADS-B yet ---> have we? LOL (great job, Greg - always enjoy your updates)!
My Air 2s has ADS-B and I like it a lot. Now I know when a aircraft is approaching before I hear it. But, with the FAA making it more difficult to understand the rules and changing the rules so often it taking the enjoyment out of the hobby. Especially since there are so few instances of problems nationwide, like flying above altitude limits, flying over people, moving cars, flying in restricted air space, etc.
Meanwhile I have a airport 6 miles away and the aircraft (mostly one helicopter and two different planes) buzz my neighborhood 4 to 5 times a month. When I say buzz I mean they fly over my house and neighborhood at less than 400 feet in altitude. The helicopter is notorious for buzzing the neighborhoods at 200 feet altitude on a regular basis, which is dangerous in many ways. I have phoned the airport several times but they don't seem very interested.
Greg, I looked into AC 91-57B the other day and saw it was updated with AC 91-57C. I tried to read through the whole thing and my eyes hurt after about half way through. I am so sick of government taking the fun out of everything in our lives! This is just overreach in it's purist form. I understand the need to keep safe while we are flying our drones. I have been only flying recreationally for about 5 years and have never had an incident with manned aircraft, cars, or people. Nothing. It seams as if the FAA don't even want us in the air at all. They are making it easier and easier for us to fail, while making it harder and harder to stay within the so called law. Thank you for keeping us up to date on all the shenanigans at the FAA. My final takeaway in all this is your votes matters. Don't count on others to fix this for us. Get out there and VOTE!
I feel the same.
Me too.
Some jurisdictions need poll watchers to keep the vote honest.
@@hanelyp1 Watchers, ok. Armed vigilantes (their words, not mine), NOT OK.
I think you nailed it with the mini 107 comment... my own personal experience is that every small drone owner I know basically just bought their drone and went flying. Anecdotal, I know, but if seemingly no one cares now, making it commercial-lite isn't going to fix that problem.
OMG and what about all those people that died when all these drones and park fliers where just taken to the park and flown around. It must have been a disaster. You are so lucky to be able to make this comment here today with all your toes and fingers. At list now you can have some suite in the government tell you how to be safe so all you have to worry about going forward is getting robbed because of RID.
@@Clickmaster5k I think I am missing something. Sarcasm, I hope.
@@marcspaz Yes, lol that was sarcasm.
@@Clickmaster5k LOL cool! I thought I missed it!
This is Remote ID for. For those who buy and go flying ;) I think any police car will soon have this nice feature integrated. Fly it in a desert, sale it to next aspired videographer month later.
Even with just 9 basic rules, my first thought hearing that as an outsider is: "Firearms use only has 5 basic rules"
Greg you and your crew are much appreciated as always you guys explain things in perfect detail and I just love your channel I took your class I got 93% I really appreciate the work that you guys are doing thank you very much
It’s almost as hard as getting your pilots license now
it's worse..... I've been a licensed private pilot for over 25 years and there's more garbage dictating what a little toy can or can't do than when I fire up a nice 1947 taylorcraft BC12D that doesn't even have an electrical system on board
If you're using a strobe light visible for three miles, wouldn't our visual line of sight also be three miles?
That's a yes as far as I'm concerned. Of course, you still have to be able to control the aircraft effectively at that distance.
Yep, that' the only answer I can come up with.
You couldn't identify hazards via a strobe light three miles out in the dark. The light's visibility is for crewed aircraft to see and avoid the drone.
For most people, past a half a mile or so, it's incredibly difficult to visually see your orientation or your proximity to obstacles and other hazards. They don't seem to give a clear definition of VLOS, but in my opinion it wouldn't count as VLOS to yourself as the PIC because you couldn't effectively control the drone that far away or see anything coming. And if there was another craft with anti-collision strobes, at that distance from your own eyes you would have a hard time figuring out which way to go to avoid as descending would lose VLOS and may be obstacles closer to the ground you can't see from that distance.
That strobe is for manned aircrafts to avoid you, not to act as a "VLOS" crutch.
Good luck finding a light that is small and light enough to fit on a small "drone" that can be seen from 3 miles away. Also, if both the "drone" pilot and a full-size pilot are following their respective altitude rules, they shouldn't be encroaching on each others' airspace to begin with. This is a bad, pointless rule.
Government really knows how to F@#$@k things up.
"The more you tighten your grip, the more who will slip through your fingers" Even old movies can predict how this will go. The government always things more government regulation is the answer to everything. The truth is you need just enough to setup the basic guidlines to let people interact responsibly (and punish those that break those guidelines) and nothing more. To go beyond that is counter productive.
i think that is they're goal. regulate the hobby to extinction so large corporations (like Amazon and Google) can take control of the airspace that our models fly in and have free reign over that part of the airspace for what ever reason
In the nuclear engineering business we used to call this approach "bring me a rock". The government would vaguely ask us to bring them a rock (and engineering solution to a nuclear safety issue.) We would bring them a rock. The government would say "We don't like this rock. Bring me a different rock." 90 days becomes 90 months and the business is driven out of business.
As a highly experienced, high time, dual rated commercial pilot in both fixed and wing and helicopters, and a flight instructor in both, I think these ridiculous rules on recreational drone pilots only serve to once again demonstrate the absolute idiocy of our FAA!
The FAA... We're not happy till you're not happy!
Thank you much for your research, analysis, and honesty
CBO's are going to be the HOA of the skies depending on where you live. While some HOA's are good (yes I really said that) many of them are nightmares. I can see where a CBO can be a real nightmare for recreational flyers as well as Part 107. How will the CBO know that you are flying under recreational or part 107? I know in my area there are several RC airplane clubs around that have "mean old men" running them and don't like anyone around or even close to space they think is theirs. Can you imagine if people like this are on your local CBO committee? ... Curious to see how much power a CBO will have as was mentioned to enforce the guidelines set and what happens if one of them approaches you ..... Still lots of questions. I'm all for training of flyers and some level of rules but I can see where this could get out of hand.
Now imagine "mean old men" with Remote ID app on its city patrol :)
I totally agree with you that the more difficult they make this rules more and more are going to fly with out going by the guidelines and yes it does ruined it for all of us that following the simple TRUST mini course that you offered for free which I did and it just common sense and i’m only a recreational flyer, thanks for the good work you are doing to help all of us
No one cares because clearly no thought went in to the process when the rules where made and the justification for making them was obviously false. Fastest way to get people to not list is sound like you don't know what you are talking about. So far the FAA has not sounded at all like they know anything about flying and recently that goes for model and full scale aviation.
Well, I’m done with flying. Trying to obey all of these rules is like trying to hold water in your hand…impossible.
makes me want to take all the gear I just bought, and have a nice toasty bonfire. what a shame
Sounds a lot like part 107. Glad I recently passed the test for Part 107.
If you are reading this comment and haven’t taken Greg’s course - take it!! 💯
Nah. I'm just gonna sell my drone.
Naaah, renew every two years and pay Another $165, or probably even more as the crocodiles in the bureaucracy want more doe over years to come. They would come with another bullxhit rule to make money. What is your return of investment? Hoping you can earn big money posting your vids on you tube or find a client to fly your drone and inspect their roofing?
I ain't gonna be suckered into it.
I haven’t flown in a few years because it’s getting harder and harder to find places to fly within the guidelines/rules. At one point I had three drones and I’m down to one…and that one is for sale as well.
Fuck the rules. Free men don't ask permission.
I am one, with a drone sitting in a storage room. Learning about trust in another video helped so I am about to take the test, training session. Your videos are quite informative by the way! The other thing I did for other reasons was move from a city too near it’s small, but busy, municipal airport and two hospitals with helipads where my back yard was more or less off limits to a very rural place with lots of open space I am free to access a rural nominally gated community with a lot of common space. The drones have too many commercial applications for the FAA to try to shut down, so I imagine community guidelines should do more to facilitate drone usage than curtail it.
I bought a simple light Potensic Atom Se to get footage of our rigs while off-roading at OHV parks or public trails. Didn’t know it was gonna be this complicated🤦🏼♂️
Since it’s under 250g do we need to officially register now? Thanks!!!
Thanks to the FAA for making compliance easy and simple: Ignore it all! They think they can regulate hobbyist quads that stay below 100 feet or so? Not gonna happen.
If they want compliance, they need to communicate what benefit there is to following the rules when flying exclusively below the tree line (where I sure hope there aren't any manned aircraft to interfere with!).
Sounds like mass non-compliance will be the rule, and enforcement, with limited resources, mostly limited to cases of injury or property damage. Or the agency goes lawless and enforcement will be applied without regard to actual ruiles.
There are no new rules... just a couple of ACs that refer to aspects of the rules which have been awaiting clarification.
Oh it is absolutely new rules, disguised as guidelines.
Excellent video! I just purchased a Roku F11Gim2. This drone comes with Remote ID and GPS navigation. Does this mean I can fly Beyound Visual Line of Sight (BVLOS)? If not, can I fly on my own property BVLOS?
Subbed. I'm recreational flyer but not a irresponsible flyer. I follow the rules as I know them. My drone is FAA registered with the registration number the drone. If I'm in an urban area I use the Aloft air control app to check the airspace and follow the altitude/LOS rules. I don't do anything stupid. I pretty much fly out in the middle of nowhere most of the time and here in Nevada, I mean the middle of nowhere. Honestly, altitude and line of sight rules are just a suggestion when there is nothing around you for miles on end.
New recreational drone flyer; what should be used in the interim until CBOs are approved, considering following the rules of a CBO is already required in order to make sure you're meeting the recreational flyer exception?
thanks so much for teachings about drones safety, how to take the test registering. I had my first drone was basic but now i have a hs720e after watching your videos. THANKS
It use to be model aircraft associations that made the rules. The Faa over stepped there bounds using predicted sales as an example of unforseen cercomstances that allow them to regulate it them selves.
I Agree that this will confuse. I am doing part 107 so I don't have to worry about rules I might not know! I will know them all based on what I know already
The principle is called KISS. "Keep it Simple STUPID!"
With that out of the way, great video, Greg. I really liked your humorous approach to explaining it. When I read the original guideline, I almost decided to not fly again. It is getting too complicated! Having moved [sadly] from the gorgeous scenery of the lakes around Prescott, I have found only one place to fly here in Ocala (where I could get permission) - a big open field owned by the city. Kinda boring, but still useful in honing skills. I'm almost 76 and a bit slow.
In other words, the FAA does not want anyone flying drones.
Exactly.
I figured this was coming years ago. That's one reason I have curbed my enthusiasm and haven't bought a drone.
@4:05 "... and lights that show the direction of flight." Drones can fly in any direction with any orientation. Does this mean you need a computer on the drone to change the lights depending on which way it is going rather that which way it is pointing? What if the drone is hovering? Are their lights for that too?
How do I stop a neighboring drone in a highrise from sitting his drone across from me in brush as I have seen it with binoculars and heard him talking looking for me I live below him in a high rise and have to keep curtains closed at all times
Greg, I watched whole video, I'm not clear what the guide line is for recreation fly? you talked a lot, but what's new guideline ?
Very interesting assessment of the new AC. The current release is far and away much more complicated than the one published in 1981. Even as a full scale pilot, the FAR's have become murky over the years. It doesn't seem to have a meaningful effect on the accident rate. To be certain, the regs have made things more time consuming and expensive.
As for RC models, a multipage document (AC) isn't very helpful, as is the final rule, to enhance safety. I think that certain recreational activities rule out some participation due to their nature. Someone that doesn't appreciate working on mechanical projects, for example, wouldn't likely work on their car for fun.
In my opinion, the FAA has better things to do as an agency. The real driver of much of this is a monetary interest and not much else. On a positive note, I'm glad to see older organizations as well as the new ones step up for mutual support of the hobby.
In summary, flying these miniature aircraft is something that brings one joy and friendship. Blue skies!
Thank you for the very informative video.
I have a question regarding flying over people which legally were allowed to do now.
The distance the FAA says were supposed to be away from people generally is 500 ft. If were allowed to fly over people at what elevation am I legally allowed to fly over them when I cannot go over 400ft? That is technically 100ft too close. I get if they are in a structure, enclose or a vehicle you can fly past them as long as you're not hovering over them.
Seems a bit dumb, but I just don't get it? Thanks Pilot Institute for any help.
A few clarifications here. There are indeed provisions in the regulation to fly over people BUT... you need special equipment (a categorized drone, under Cat 1, 2, 3, or 4) and very few drones are currently approved. So, while you COULD potentially fly over people with the right equipment, it's unlikely you'll be able to get it. Also, this can only be done under part 107. Recreational flyers currently are not allowed to fly over people.
Second clarification, there is no set distance to fly away from people. Currently flying OVER someone means just that: being right OVER them. Any part of the drone over any part of a human body.
I hope this helps!
Kiss! Keep it simple all the way! Thanks as always for your very thoughtful videos! #stayepic
Great Video - Thanks for your hard work
It is my opinion that these rules will only stop the people who would never break the current rules anyway.
Is this what happens when suits get ahold of someone's Fun? They have to ruin it.
I am confused about all of this.
For me personally, it took FOREVER to save the money for my drone , shortly after that came the 'new' rules about having a tracker of some sort. Which then puts my drone Over the weight limit without a license.
My drone just sits in it/s case now.
So disappointed.
Greg, thanks so much for this video! Great explanation. I have a question though. You mentioned carrying weapons, does that mean on your person?
No, on the drone. Drones can't be equipped with weapons.
@@PilotInstitute Whew! Thanks.
@@PilotInstitute Please don't tell the Ukrainians they can't have weapons on their drones.
Going from a small amount of set rules to a large amount of rules make it so much more confusing than ever before.
And even more so if your a 107 piolet and recreational flyer too.
I refuse to recognize the FAA as having any authority over toy aircraft just like they have no authority over how high someone may fly a kite or how high or far someone may hit a golf ball or baseball into the air (and even sometimes into a crowd of people). This is big government way overstepping their authority and purpose.
Kites have an even lower statutory altitude limit than model aircraft. But a moot point, if you're the sort of person who's going to rationalize doing whatever you feel like one way or the other.
Until recently, we had "under 400 ft" mostly to ourselves because because no one else had much use for it. That's quickly changing, so the rules are as well. No more free lunch.
Well, any altitude is too much. Pilots want some assurance of long life :) But all those rules are just to kick amateurs from the space needed to business.
@@DXAMedia Maybe if we all chip in, to the point of becoming the majority shareholders in Amazon, FedEx and UPS, then we could make all this go away ; ) Or put the same money towards very large/very empty structures for indoor flying. Even the FAA admits they don't have jurisdiction over indoor spaces (hard to fly a kite in there, however).
Once again, the faa is NOT a law making authority. The bruen decision is protecting your rights from alphabet agencies making up laws willy nilly. Stand up for yourselves before this goes to far and you have no more enjoyment in your hobbie.
@@ryanrich9186 The US Congress is the law making authority. In the laws they make (including the one we were talking about, until you tried to change the subject), they typically delegate implementation to a relevant federal agency. That's in the law made by the law-making authority. Then the agency goes through a lengthy implementation process, including public comments.
Read through what the FAA published regarding those comments and their specific responses to them. You will see, like the result or not, that they struck a balance between what for example some law enforcement and aerospace interests wanted (to pretty much shut us down), and hobbyists looking to keep the good 'ol days intact.
Hello, I was wondering if you had to be a US citizen to get your part 107 license.
Do I only need my Social Security number or drivers license number to get it?
Will we be required to join a CBO to fly a drone as a recreational flyer?
No, you don't have to join a CBO. If questioned, you just have to show which guidelines you are following. For example you could print out the guidelines from the FPVFC and have them with you when you fly. On the off chance that someone questions you about what rules you are following, you would show them that printout. Silly for sure, but that's how the FAA has explained it.
@@5zero7RC That is pretty stupid. It's kinda like voting in a state that you don't live in. We get dumber every day..
Keeping it simple is paramount. Provide clear and concise rules in layman language.
Where are these CBO's supposed to be located? I live in a rural part of California and was wondering if these organizations are going to be located in every county. Or, are we as recreational flyers going to have to travel for hours to find a CBO to be able to fly?
No, they won't be local organizations, they will be national organizations (although some could be local but that's unlikely). It won't matter if you travel or not or where the CBO is located.
@@PilotInstitute So, We just need to follow the rules the CBO's put in place no matter where we live. Thanks for the info..
Great video with the perfect soundtrack!
For several years now I have resisted getting a drone. My concern is that as soon as I buy one, the rules will be such as to prevent me from legal use of it; and it will end up as a very expensive paperweight.
If I need to read a textbook just to turn on a drone, then I'm not going to even bother registering a drone anymore.
I'm new to the drone world and have minimal private pilot training (80 hours) and occasionally fly paramotor (no license required). One of the first things that comes to my mind is in the typical government-ese language and attempts to cover every possibility, the language could eventually come out that includes anything that "flies" through the "airspace" be it "powered or unpowered" in such a way as to, by the letter of the regs, require training, tests, certification and record keeping for every flight of a: football, baseball, golfball, shuttlecock....
Why is the FAA overregulating something that has not been shown to be a true problem? Let's face it, drones and model airplanes in particular need very minimal regulation to be safe. These regulations are based upon a lot of what if scenarios that have never happened and are unlikely to happen. They would be best spending their time on things that do happen like the numerous civil aviation accidents that occur on a very frequent basis.
Next thing they will be punishing for thought crimes - Oh wait, it's in R&D!
I've got a question. I'm planning to fly a 440 ft waterfall and access to this location is near the bottom. How's this work with the 400 ft rule?
Technically you can't do that because you would be more than 400 feet above the ground. Technically.
@@PilotInstitute interesting because if a plane flew over the waterfall it's altitude at the top according to 500ft minimum would be 60ft.
Technically DJI not allowing to fly over 500m. That is elevation above take off point. Legally 400ft above the ground. If you next to the top of the fall, then it is 400ft from that ground.
But check the park rules around that waterfall, more likely it is not allowed to fly at all. "Comply, resistance is futile" :)
If it's in a state park, check the rules. In my state drone flying is banned in all state parks, which was a bummer to find out after I'd already purchased my drone...
UK certified flyer. Coming to Orlando/clearwater in Sept 23. 249g dji mini 3 pro. I have Apps on my iPhone for LAANC notifications. How easy is it to get clearance in places like kissimmee?
You should be able to find lots of places to fly.
I’m just going to keep doing what I’ve been doing. Flying around my 20 acres and keeping in sight. I don’t usually go any higher then 200 feet.
Hello my friend what's the new rules for Mimi SE DJI drone
They're definitely pushing a "mini Part 107". And getting a 501c3 NFP status is a pretty big hurdle even before trying to draft community rules that the FAA will approve. Expect significant membership fees to pay for accounting, legal, and technical work.
In saying that you need to follow a CBO guideline... is that saying you also have to be an active paying member of that specific CBO to follow their guidelines?
@@iansnetwork Yep I found that out in the 8 months since I asked.
I have the Trust certificate and fly an under the reg weight drone at 249g. I want to put my videos on my smugmug photo site. there is no advertising and I don't allow downloading on the videos...AM I Legal?
It's all about the intent of the flight. If you are flying for recreational purposes, you are fine.
I'm a recreational flyer I tried to get LAANC authorization to fly at night it didn't allow me to.
thanks for the update.
We need to push back on the FAA with our elected officials. With the RID process, it was abundantly clear that the government chooses not to listen to the average citizen-pilot. Okay, fine, I'll spin up my Congressional reps and get them on the case. If many of us do that, maybe the FAA will listen.
I am a recent drone pilot and you and your community have made operating my drone, within the current guidelines, a simple to understand hobby. I chose a small craft, the DJI mini Pro 3, as my current drone.
I look at the rules being enforced in more of a forensic method than in real time by someone who assumes authority of enforcement. If a law enforcement official requires you to cease operation of your drone for any perceived reason on their part, you must and will comply. Stating you are following guidelines and laws will not get you back in the air.
However, if you cause problems and are involved in litigation which questions your adherence to guidelines, investigators will use your videos to verify compliance. I would think that most operators of a drone small enough to not require 107 registration usually can be shown to have lost line of sight at some point. Adding additional guidelines will not really impact operation of drones since it is such a fun activity and safe operation is a real time commitment operators make at the time of flight. Having boundaries which can be placed and studied over time to help an activity gain a positive reputation is worth a try.
So, appreciate this video, thanks, hope faa do keep it simple
Drones have never been welcomed in the airspace. This is a way to remind us all. They are ruining the hobby
Or maybe some irresponsible drone flyers are ruining it for the rest of us. Just look at the news when drones first came out and how they abused it so the faa had to step in.
I am a drone pilot, I disagree with you. The reason for the reaction to drones is because stupid idiots flying freestyle around people. Crashing into wedding guests, and flying kilometers away above 400 feet. It's all these idiots fault. Period.
Gotta point.
@@superjvt71 And look, I hate to bash on that drum alone. It needs to be looked at like any other form of aviation. I've been a private pilot since 1989 and we tend to get a little bitchy towards drones because the first thing that comes to thought are kids flippantly throwing a flying object into their airspace. I know that's not the issue alone. it's that and China being implicated on covertly using DJI to track telemetry data and imaging provided all the justification the FAA needed to ignore the lobbyists and jump in and control the airspace even more. And look at the impact it's having on Amazon, Walmart and anyone else who has pumped money into R&D to roll out delivery services using drone technology. Expect that in the next 5 years for the general drone enthusiast to go thru the same training as a recreational pilot does. Biennials, check rides, certification and license requirements and a dedicated air traffic system to be implemented. I could be wrong. But it's the US Government we are talking about. Probably close.
@@Mainbusfail a pilot yeah right Its all money for u
Yes it going to be more rules and regulations. The way I see it is that, it’s like different types of ACFT in the military. Each ACFT in the Army has different rules and regs besides the standard flight rules. AH-64 are different from UH-60 and CH-47, just like FPV, standard drones, to delivery drones.
That's why they train army pilots for years and pay them a decent amount. These rules apply to tiny foam airplanes flying around a city park we are not 5 ton flying tank killers. Look what the UK is doing then look at the ridiculousness America is doing. The next generation isn't going to grow up and engineers want to learn how things work, they will just grow up learning they don't want to do anything because they have to read 200 pages and initial each line before they can the privilege's to be sued by any lawyer that gets word of it.
This should not be accepted, there is no actual justification for these rules. Model aviation is statistically already the safest so if anything the rest of the industry should be look at what they can derive from how rc hobby operates if you just want to look at black and white.
I think there may be too many CFR14 and up people trying to write the rules over at the FAA.
The more I watch these drone news videos about the rules and laws to flying drones, the more confused I become. 😩
Good luck, I'll continue building and flying my stuff off in the corner and ignoring all of these guidelines. The only quadcopters I've crashed were all in fpv racing and caused by collisions. I've never crashed anything outside of FPV racing and I have over 8,000 flights across 5 different platforms (fixed delta wing and 350-450mm quadcopter), adding up to over 20,000 hours. The FAA rules should apply for the simpletons, newbies and inexperienced.
Hey Greg what are the rules for railroads.
By definition the recreational rules are carved from inside of Part 107. If a CBO rule comes from outside of Part 107. A case should be made the rule is capricious.
In the end can we prove a CBO rule adds nothing to the existing recreational rules except complexity? With the understanding some additional rules or clarification may be required.
The original rules were a good example of carving out the recreational rules from inside of Part 107.
That’s somewhat incorrect. Recreational rules are codified under USC 44809 and not part 107. And in USC 44809, there’s a rule for CBOs specifically so it is indeed completely legal.
@@PilotInstitute Then I stand corrected. However I believe I am quoting what Pilot Institute has said numerous times. If one does not follow the recreational rules. Then one will fall into the Part 107 rule without a certificate. Because the recreational rules are carved from within Part 107. From that comment one can conclude 44809 is just a name to summarize what was pulled from Part 107. In any case I can easily find quotes from Pilot Institute saying the rules are carved from within Part 107.
I wasn't suggesting the CBO rules are not legal. I was saying if the CBO included a rule that was not referenced in Part 107 it would be questionable. They would be appending new rules that did not exist.
Thank you for sharing this information with us!
I’m a recreational flyer and don’t understand why this is becoming more complicated and confusing. There seems to be an increasing amount of unnecessary bureaucratic action. The rules should be kept as simple as possible.
Hey Greg where could i purchase one of your hooded sweater?
I noticed you used the term "should" several times in your presentation. I find that good to know, because in Federal rules and contracts, the word "should" has no legal weight. The operative word in those rules is "Shall". When the rule says you "shall" do something, you are breaking the rule if you do not. Should is just a suggestion that can be ignored with impunity. I've not yet had the opportunity to download and read the new rules, but it will be interesting to see if they say should or shall. Probably doesn't matter much, since the FAA doesn't have nearly enough manpower to enforce their rules on drones anyhow. Call your local FAA field office and see if they even bother to get back with you to answer your questions.
Thanks Greg. I wonder if the FAA is going to make recreational drone pilots take an exam similar to the Ham Radio Exam Tech 1.
They already have an exam with TRUST, they won’t do anything else for now.