There's an old Chinese saying by Xunzi, "A man who travels two roads at once will arrive nowhere; a man who serves two masters will please neither." Not that Disney would know.
I am Chinese, and as far as I concerned, almost every “Chinese element” in entertainment that was made in western seems off to me. We don’t have “representation problem”, so only putting in some Chinese actors does nothing for the Chinese audience, since we have watched all movies and tv shows with all Chinese actors. There is a cultural difference and I appreciate that Disney is trying to connect eastern and western audiences, it’s a minor setback, but I hope it will guide us to a better direction. Also, ancient Chinese people speaking English with a Chinese accent doesn’t help much lol.
@@d.b.scoville I'm Mexican and seeing Coco speaking English with Mexican accent also felt weird. Also with movies about the holocaust and Germans speaking English with accents.
To be honest Disney should've realised that their version of this myth isn't about China but the Chinese-American diaspora. If they want to make a Chinese myth for China, Chinese audiences are gonna be wtf is this if you don't make it with a Chinese cast and crew. It would be like a Chinese crew making a Western in America with white ppl and trying to make it white liberal to pander to the Amercian audience... can you imagine?!?! Dan got it bang on "trying to sell their own culture back to them" - the fucking hubris of Disney. If you want the audience you need someone from the audience on board behind the scenes!
You got that right!!! I have nothing against Liu, but she was very rigid. Asian cultures and American culture is so different. China is a censor heavy country, and with our liberties in America, one has to truly think about whether the demographic and geographic target is worth all the missteps.
Disney has no clue what Chinese audiences want. Instead of obviously pandering to them, maybe Disney could actually work with Chinese filmmakers and make Chinese-language films...
Working with Chinese filmmakers would be great. But making Chinese language films is unlikely for Disney. Films done in English language make it more global. China may be a big part of box office audiences, but Disney making films in Mandarin would isolate box office audiences elsewhere in the world.
@@stormtraitor6545 Also the Fast and the Furious franchise is pretty big there. Basically, Chinese audiences like Hollywood blockbusters but they also have their own film industry for Chinese focused films so Hollywood films with Asian casts aren't necessarily a draw. I think BlueBobo is right, they should just co-partner with a Chinese production company to produce Chinese-language films.
As I listen to the Mulan story I start imagining a couple of Americans opening a pizzeria in Naples. The ingredients are sourced locally, as are the staff. For some reason, however, the Italians just aren't buying that cheese-stuffed crust and barbecue sauce base.
@@diego1234561000 As a S.E. Asian who loves Hawaiian pizza (chicken & pineapple top) I'm sorry for our different tastes haha. If only I can eat a genuine Italian pizza made by an Italian in my country, but alas.
As an american teen living in Italy, a ton of Italians fucking love American style pizza lol theres a ton of copy cat American pizza shops here and they get big business. I swear you people have never even been to Italy to think this bullshit
during one of those THR producers Roundtable talks, I heard Bob Iger say “If Mulan fails in China then we’re doing something very wrong” and I did a full spit take. Why did he think it was going to work in China? 1. There’s zero nostalgia for the animated film there, because the animated film is all kinds of offensive. From Mushu to the way they talk about honour. None of it is authentic, which makes sense because from top to bottom none of the creators (writers, director, character design) are even Asian, let alone Chinese. The matchmaking scene was so cringe that as a child I turned it off right there. They did nothing to rectify this in the Live action. AND NONE OF THE CREATIVES ARE CHINESE, AGAIN. 2. There’s no shortage of depictions of Mulan in China. There are quite a few films and a handful of tv shows. There’s this traditional opera song that is included in every traditional opera mashup that always happened every year at the Lunar Festival variety show which is seen every year by billions of people. They’re not desperate for another version. 3. Because it’s everywhere, the Chinese public ACTUALLY KNOW THE STORY SO THEY KNOW WHEN YOU’VE SCREWED UP. (Also Western storytelling vs Asian storytelling has different focus. Hero’s journey vs trials and tribulations to demonstrate the selfless sacrifice of the hero etc. My theory on the failure of the Star Wars franchise there is because all the saga films are pure heroes’ journeys. Which is very Judeo-Christian “chosen one” mythology that just isn’t as a deeply rooted narrative for them). They’ve at least fixed her last name this time, but they didn’t fix enough. 4. It’s a movie about Chinese characters, with (mostly) Chinese actors, set in China, but speaking English. Like who thought China was hungry for that?
That's a good point, but I think it's mainly due to a lack of nostalgia. Western audiences are watching these remakes because they remind them of their childhoods. Is anyone in china really gonna look back fondly on the animated Disney version?
This was very educational. I get that the average westerner had not considered these points (I hadn't), but that the people whose job it is to think of these things hadn't thought of it, that's insane.
Might have something to do with the main character being played by an actress who was voted by Chinese audiences as one of the worst actresses in all of China. Might have to do with China having a million better versions of Mulan already permeating their culture and it's a story they have already seen and beaten to death themselves. Might be that it was just a bad movie.
@@yukie_tn Chinese here,I lost interest the moment the casting was announced. Not a hater or anything (and I don't care what actors do outside of movies), she just can't act. I read Disney auditioned thousands of actors, and she's who they picked? Did they think that's Chinese style acting or something?
@@nessselfish7396 (RUclips swallowed my previous comment) Chinese also, and not her fan. I just remember anticipation for the movie being high when she was cast. So dislike her all you want, it doesn't really matter. I was trying to be objective.
This still shocks me. No Chinese director, not one Chinese writer out of the 4. Even the rest of the crew (costumes, sets, stunts) are scant in Chinese representation. This ought to have been a guaranteed win for the Chinese market. It should’ve poured money. But I guess somebody wasn’t thinking.
Littikty Split hows that racist... if you want to make a movie on native Americans we can’t except people from England to make it good and look like authentic .... you need native Americans atleast on writing or directing... stop being ignorant...
It's the same lesson that the Japanese games industry learned a few years ago. Japan can't make Western games better than the West. Similarly, Hollywood can't make Chinese films better than China. You make what you know and hope it might end up having international appeal. It's what happened to superhero movies.
Spagetti Western movies like the Man With Name Trilogy, and the Magnificient Seven were influenced, rather remakes, of Japanese films such Yojimbo and Akiara kurosawa's the Seven Samurai. So, the Japanese can make Western just fine
Japan has made so many great Nintendo and Sony games for the western markets because gaming is a global language. Even back in the day they had some success with Space Invaders and other arcade games.
A lot of gaming does not take place in the "real world". Mario, Sonic, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Dragon Age, The Elder Scrolls, Fortnite. Since these settings are not based on earth, maybe they can be more readily adopted by a variety of cultures. Games like Persona or Yakuza were more niche until recently and heavily rely on Japanese culture. Fallout and now Horizon games are focused on a post-apocalyptic United States and I'm not sure how well they've been adopted outside the US. Not sure what my point is or was now. Something about games are maybe easier to spread cross-culturally than movies.
I have to agree, obvious shallow and dishonest pandering should not be rewarded. It's quite insulting and while I'm not sure if the Chinese took it as the insult it was or just didn't care, I'm certainly happy they didn't fall for it (not surprised though it's not like Disney was particularly subtle).
From reviews it sounds like Mulan was just a bad movie. I don't see why they would think Chinese people would like a movie that wasn't even good. I highly doubt they're impressed because Disney set a movie in their country based on their folklore. They do have their own thriving movie market and have no reason to be excited about the crumbs Disney is tossing them.
@@stormtraitor6545 While I personally do not like any of the Transformers movies, they're generally panned by critics and loved by audiences. Not really sure if it has much to do with it being half set in China. It still made over a billion dollars worldwide and was one of the highest grossing movies in the US the year it came out.
they white washed our Mulan story and threw it back at us expecting us to enjoy it. na , it aint it. i feel that disney still hasn't grasped the fact that you ca'tn resell our own culture to us and expect it to be a success, especially if we were not invited into the process. Yeah they had a whole cast of Asians in the film, but without that historical context and knowledge of ones culture, the failures of the movie were revealed. Disney should have hired at least some asians in their production crew... We know the story/subtleties/ reasoning behind the actions of why mulan did what she did better than a western producer who hasn't been integrated into that culture and knows that background context.
@@mtumasz i was wondering the same thing, but it has to be the vegetable, as in eat your greens, something that's maybe not that popular but important. 🤔
Uhhh.. did none of you actually watch this video? Dan referred to a story as broccoli, or not very interesting. I just meant that most of his fans specifically watch him because he likes to did into detail on stories that don't garner mass appeal, but are usually very important to the industry.
Accented Cinema made a great video on Mulan and how he felt watching it as a Chinese man. He even compares it to Disney's original Mulan and how they seemed to understand the character more when they weren't so obviously pandering to China. His channel is great in general but his perspective especially on Mulan is greatly needed.
My main issue with Live action Mulan is it wasn't a "sincere" attempt to honor Chinese culture. It was a very surface level reading of the folklore. And yes, it felt very pandering. And I say this as an American. If there was a movie I would contrast it to, it would be Coco in how well they succeeded in paying tribute to Mexican culture.
I'm saying this as a native mexican, it is the reason why we loved Coco dearly. I never forgot the attempt Disney made on trying to copyright Día de Muertos, and I will never forgive them for it. But, Pixar themselves were the ones that made an effort to study mexican culture, invite mexican peoples into the studios to give guidance, influenced themselves in particular from the region of Oaxaca. Thanks to Pixar's open mind and willingness to reach out and learn from mexican culture, they made a film that we felt was made not only for us, but BY us. Every aspect of our culture, every person influential to our history and way of being, even a very afterlife was made after our beliefs with enormous creativity and love. I hate Disney, but Pixar themselves have always had heart and a willingness to learn about anything they wish to make a film about. Mulan 2020 lacks any love. That film was made to fill a bottom line at the least cost possible, while thanking the Chinese government permission to not censor them on their hands and knees. And I am glad Disney paid dearly for it on all fronts.
I actually love the 2009's Mulan (Vicky Zhao). So if you're disappointed in Disney's 2020 Mulan, watch the 2009's version instead. That one's 99% Chinese & 1% Vitas (lol).
As a mexican who lives in México, we loved Coco, loved that stereotipe with the grannys and their chanclas and "come más, estás muy flaco" (eat more, you are too skinny) but, there were just a couple of things that were innacurate. 1. Border control. I guess Disney found it funny or it was a way that people from the states could understand, but within mythology of "Día de Nuestros" there's no Border control, If no one places a picture of you on an altar, your soul would just wander around all night or you could even end up sneaking into another house. There are people who even puts food and water for those who don't have anyone waiting for them. 2. That Land of the Dead... In the aztec culture, that place is called "Mictlán", And to get there they must go through many obstacles to find rest. Mictlán has no social differences because for the gods of death (Mictlatecuhtli "Lord of Mictlán", and Mictecacihuatl "Lady of the bones") does't matter if you are famous, rich or poor, we all walk the same path, because we are all the same after we die. 3. There's a bonus: when someone is completely forgotten, both gods of death eat him/her so his/her spirit can unite with the universe. And ever after that, that soul rebirth like a snail, a rabbit or a jaguar (there where a special group of warriors that after their deads, rebirth as jaguars, they were called "Guerreros Jaguar", and there were another type of warriors who revived as eagles, called "Guerreros Águila"). I know the last point was nothing to do with Coco, but I really love all the Cosmology about Día de Muertos and the aztec gods, so I just wanted to share that info.
@@stormtraitor6545 And I will continue to not see them. Eventually they'll run out though, right? Or will they keep going and make a live action Bolt movie? Tangled? Frozen? Will they dare encroach on Pixar and make a live action Toy Story or Monsters Inc.?
This isn't what will happen. The horrible copy and paste remakes have made them money. If anything Disney will learn the wrong lesson and start making their remakes like Lion King and keep everything the same.
The costumes and production looked to me like the Chinese soap operas I used to watch as a kid. Surely Disney should do better than that TV budget. Chinese people don't want Chinese stuff sold to them by Western entitities, even if they try to be "authentic."
I'm surprised you didn't bring up the issue of piracy as a possible reason why Mulan flopped in China, especially considering how it's Disney+ Premier Access debut happened a full week before it came out in China (Disney was reportedly aiming to get the film out in China a week before the D+ Premier Access debut).
MysteryMii it’s true that piracy was a problem in China, but for the recent years our government has made moves in eliminating piracy. My personal experience is that most of the piracy sites are shutting down and have to purchase on Chinese streaming platform. The piracy situation is almost the same as western world. So I don’t think it’s really the reason for the case of Mulan 😁
@@deadpoolchinese6570 maybe the Chinese autority have piracy under control in the close system that you call internet. However in the western world as you said noone has piracy under control because internet is worldwide and open.There is no overseeing body with a killswitch: they take down one site 3 clones open, they kick a site from a country 7 others might host it. Illegal torrenting might be down but illegal streaming is at an all time high. The big reason piracy went down for a while was because of netflix catalogue and the concentration of shows that it had. But with the explosion of multiples streaming site and the repartition of content behind multiple pay wall, piracy is going up.
Whats more possible is that the Chinese people don't want to watch a foreign and false representation of a historical hero/culture they themselves have depticted numerous of times over the years in a more authentic way. As well as the pandemic
The answer is simple. The movie was directed and written by Westerners who don't really understand Chinese culture. Not surprising. Imagine if any Asian country were to make their own movie about Davy Crockett.... I'm sure there is an equal good chance of that flopping with American audiences. Aside from that... the biggest reason why Mulan 2020 flopped was because they basically made her into "Rey Skywalker". Unlike the much better 1999 animated film... we did not get the hero we can root for and watch her work hard to make the transformation into an outstanding soldier.
I love learning more about the nitty-gritty of how all these entertainment outlets get their numbers, what the gaps in knowledge are... You make some great broccoli Dan!
@@niallcraig6792 because Orientalism in 2020 is not a good look and that's why it flunked in both china AND america. The Chinese (both in america and china) see through the bullshit and lackluster efforts of western hollywood to even try to make Mulan historically accurate. The theme that Mulan was born with this innate Chi inside her is such a western ideology. The Chinese don't believe in "the chosen ones and therefore they are innately successful." Even being a disney movie, the 1998 movie showed Mulan as a successful warrior because of her HARD WORK and perseverance, but in the 2020 live movie, she was just given the "chi" - which is cheap and uninspiring consider this was a war story. The cast were also given very one dimensional roles which did nothing for the overall movie. If you start to peel the layers you will see that this movie was bad all around in every aspect. You can cast the best asian actors from all over the world but if the project isn't from a genuine standpoint, it fails because people crave authenticity and this project did not deliver that at all.
I live in Asia, and honestly, I never thought Mulan would do great business in China. Many Asian countries have film industries of their own, and have had them for decades. We are used to having our stories seen on screen with authentic perspectives. I have seen Hollywood movies and shows set in my country, and they always come off as having diluted, lukewarm takes on the culture and people. And in some bad cases, quite superficial and cartoonish. The idea of telling a story set in Chinese history and war, by Hollywood, to the Chinese people... always felt like an endeavor that was doomed to not reap astounding rewards.
I do have to wonder how much the marathon strategy for Tenet looking like being a dicey proposition is due to what the theater situation is like vs various feelings about Tenet as a movie itself. Tenet seems to come across as just ok or too heady (just general impressions I haven't seen it myself) but if they had done an easier crowd-pleasing popcorn movie (like I imagine Wonder Woman 84 is), then could the marathon strategy have worked for that?
Can anyone tell me HOW they managed to spend 200 million for Mulan and 100 million for Artemis Fowl? Did they heat the studio with dollar bills or what? Acting, special effects and editing were all sub par.
Considering how much Mulan strays from the actual mythology that Chinese audiences would likely be familiar with (and considering Western movies has really only gotten big in the Chinese market in the last couple of decades, I'm not sure how big of a deal Disney's Mulan would be for them), I'm not overly surprised.
Well when u make fake "chinese" looking sets and cut out any real character growth and basically insult the potential of a chinese historical mythology ppl dont go. I mean they had the chance to make an amazing movie but again disney fails horribly. Bring back Jungle book iron man director. Jungle book remake was only good live action one so far. Lion king=make it so acurate to real life you loose all character connections. Mulan= make it look and feel like a fake version of history and dont show her struggle again no connection. They shoulda went full on historical epic and brought back mushu not as 100% comedic relief but at least its not a dumb Phoenix that has no point. Or dumbass villians and a witch who could kill everyone but follows an idiot.... It just sucked and had SOOO much potential. Even a westerner like me saw the sets and cringed at how "make it look like china" was obviously the choice rather than ACTUALLY recreate historically the way that time frame would be. But sure every little chinese village all had best silks and nicest courtesans. Whoever decided to "soften" this movie should be fired. Shoulda went hard pg-13 historic epic focused on the animated story minus the kids comedy.
The thing is; Disney always strayed from the material they adapt. Look at their fairytale movies. I don’t think it’s China’s familiarity that led to the movie’s demise. There were other reasons, such as the location it was filmed as well as the lead actress’ beliefs on police.
I am so glad I found your new channel as all this madness started because your weekly rundowns have kept me sane. As far as Mulan goes, I'm glad it flopped. Maybe they will make new movies instead of rehashing their animated ones into disappointing live action versions.
"Theatres are struggling to reopen and most people are still hesitant to go out, let's move the rest of our release dates to November and December when the low temperatures and flu season are going to make everything worse than it is right now. Great idea :D" - A bunch of Warner executives-
Dune is definitely moving. They probably just haven’t announced it yet as they’re probably figuring out dates. My guess is Feb so that it can still have Oscar chances, but we’ll see.
Disney should have known it would fail from the start. As soon as the casting was announced, the Chinese public voiced their dislike almost immediately.
An excellent video as always Dan, thank you! I pray you and Mara are staying safe and healthy! I would be honored and delighted to do a bit of speculation based on how the streaming charts look in this video, of you don't mind: do you suppose that the pandemic has led people to experiment more with the genres of films they are watching, expanding their horizons? Or do you think it's more likely that people are reverting to comfortable rewatches of films they've seen before, hence why films like Due Date and The Smurfs are clinging on?
You are crushing it, Murrell. Checked out your totals and you are pulling great numbers in comparison... to others. Way to go off on your own during uncertainty.
One thing to consider about theaters being open. For parents to go out without kids they often need a babysitter and that’s still really hard to do, especially if there isn’t a family member that could watch them. My wife and I are comfortable going to a theater with restrictions, but we just can’t because bringing in a one of the girls we often use for sitting right now is not something anyone is really comfortable doing.
WB and Disney planned to release two of their biggest budget films in this year (Tenet and Mulan) and COVID said b*tch please. I get Nolan/WB's ambition (box office would have likely been great if no Covid) but Mulan was never going to please Chinese audiences for the reasons you stated Dan.
I'm in Norway and Disney+ just launched here (Sep 15th). So, back in August, when Disney announced Mulan would to go to Disney+ Premier Access where Disney+ was available, and Cinemas where it wasn't, I was wondering if Mulan would go to cinemas or Disney+ here. Well, it turns out it's neither. Mulan is not in cinemas here, and it won't come to Disney+ until December.
It's a shame Disney don't release data for Disney Plus. I'd like to know how Mulan is doing on Premier Access. I suspected it has probably completely flopped there too, because £19.99 is just way too much for early access.
Nolan films are made to be watched in a theater, but me and my friends right now are just not yet comfortable enough to go to the movies. If it eventually comes back for a second release when things settle down, I can certainly see it doing much, much better.
I decided to stop by an Edwards / Regal movie chain this week after work just out of curiosity and saw less than half a dozen guests in the lobby. I then decided to watch Tenet at 7:30p and ended up the only person in the cinema. I live in southern California, so I was pleasantly surprised by this. Tenet was definitely a film better watched in a cinema, so you might be able safely do so in your area if my recent experience is an indicator of current theater attendance.
On the domestic chart, it actually seems like STX actually updated The Gentleman's numbers by $200K so nows its domestic total is $36,471,795. They actually gave the day by day from March through lockdown to drive-ins and smaller theaters playing it in May/June.
What happened was that the disheartening realization that someone snuck into Dan's place and forcibly put Jurassic World into Dan's movie collection making him hostage to owning the movie and us fans haven't been able to move on from this since lol
Charts with Dan is my favourite RUclips show! Great episode, the Tenet Warner Bros strategy breakdown was really interesting, as was the Mulan discussion.
It can't see why it only needs $400mil break even, Don't movies like this need to at least triple their budget due to marketing? I can't stand this number fudging being done by WB through the trades and I'm disappointed in the trades for running with this because before the pandemic if a blockbuster only doubled its budget the trades would quickly call it a flop. They can't just change the formula to calculate movie profitability just because its doing poorly that's not how financial analysis works.
I was coming here to say something similar but I was thinking I wouldn't have to because I was convinced Dan would pick up on that BS immediately but at least you did.
@@athenajaxon2397 No you make a profit after you triple the budget because thearters get a cut, creditors get back the budget and then marketing budget is accounted for (everybody forgets marketing except the trades in normal circumstances). What's left's from there is then profit for the studio. Think about it like this if the budget is 200mil and the movie makes 400mil theaters get half (really its 40-50% and like 70% in china) leaving back 200mil to recoup the budget but what about the 150-180mil marketing budget? They need another 200mil to recoup that. Only after all of that is accounted for then what remains is profit on their balance sheet.This is why prepandemic ,you can look up these articles from a couple months ago, WB was pushing for Tenet to make $700-800mil even going as far as giving Nolan a cut which further increased what the movie has to make to turn a profit for themselves.
I don’t understand how they could put their eggs in the china basket and China doesn’t even like the film? As soon as I found out the director and writers weren’t even Chinese I was giving this film the side-eye, then I saw the trailer and them using south China abodes for Mulan’s village when everybody knows Mulan was from NORTHERN China - after that I knew this film was going to miss the mark.
This channel deserves more followers. I think (still today) people are not aware of this channel here! You should start a few collaborations Dan. Maybe with Stuckmann or Jeremy. You have so much to tell about movies - much more people should hear it.
I was interested in seeing what this movie had in store, but if it'll come to Disney plus without extra payment pretty soon, I'm in no rush to pay extra. I do remember the first trailer, it was serious, solemn, and carried a distinct weight that I found really exciting. Had my hope a little to high.
Disney was a victim of it's own greed, to try and please China, they cut the most nostalgic elements of the adaptation (Mulan's arc and the music primarily), alienating the western fans everywhere else in the world; and China, that didn't like Mulan the first time around, still doesn't like it... it's Aesop's fable of the dog and it's reflection all over again, hope they learn their lesson.
Glad you stayed away from much of the politics about the Mulan movie Dan. I think the news is very important, but this channel isn’t the place to discuss it. I personally hope Disney takes a moment to reflect on this moment, having egg on their face after the second failure in China with the same film. I’m sure they don’t feel too good about that.
Out of the eleven films you listed showing New Mutants as being the only one released, there were only 3 films there that weren't remakes or sequels/prequels. Since not going to the cinema is a ready option that has set in after 6 months of practically no releases, maybe people are just choosing not to see the slops from roundtables anymore. There are millions of stories bound between covers, stacked side-by-side in libraries. Surely something new can be found to be put to screen?!?!?
I'm curious about the relevance of home releases in the near future. Tenet won't necessarily make a lot of money in the theater but I think you're very possibly gonna have more people buying physical copies after it's out of theaters. There are cases of movies that were flops that manage to make their money once people start buying the home release, Dredd comes to mind, but that movie's budget was much smaller than Tenet. We'll see, maybe it will make studios pay more attention to physical sales, which maybe, all ten fingers crossed, will mean we get a Dredd sequel.
I actually saw New Mutants last Sunday at 1PM. Surreal experience one other patron no problem social distancing. Good new the ticket cost $8. Had absolutely no problem with parking.
If you told me last year that in September, Bad Boys for Life would be the top of the Domestic and International charts for the YEAR with Sonic in the top 3 for both, I would never have believed it. It's still so surreal to see.
Dan, I’m very curious about this and maybe you can get into it in one of your episodes. I’m just curious why film studios want to break into the Chinese film market so badly. I know they take a high percent of gross from American releases but I heard that they don’t get that much from Chinese theatres. Also, why do North American theatre chains allow a company like Disney to take almost 70% of opening weekend gross and sometimes beyond that when Chinese theatres just say no? Surely American theatre chains must know how much Chinese theatres keep?!
Because governments don't just think in terms of money but also political power/propaganda?? Maybe?? And the Chinese government is way more involved. So the theatres aren't the ones keeping the money, the government is, and they get to keep it because they can always threaten to censor the film or ban it entirely from their multi million dollar market. But that is entirely speculation on my part!!
@@SplatterInker that is exactly how it works. Large portions of the money you make in that market goes to the Chinese government or you don't do business in China. They happily censor their films on their own and edit them with added chinese characters and shit to try to appeal to China. Its why they freaked out whenever the director wanted to make a different type of movie for Doctor Strange. The Chinese market influences every major film that is released by Disney.
The difference is that the US puts the profit motive above everything else. They have no problem using authoritarian tactics on the public but play a subservient role to private capital. American politicians tend to put short- and medium-term goals first and focus on GDP, unemployment and other figures that aren't very useful for assessing quality of life. The Chinese government is thinking about how the country will look in the next few decades. They have ambitious development goals in sight and won't sell out their future for the sole benefit of billionaires. Madness!
What I wish he had talked about was how Mulan's box office compared to how other films have done in China since their theaters reopened. Comparing Mulan to the Last Jedi doesn't seem particularly helpful in understanding the 2020 Chinese box office. One thing, I believe we all should keep in mind is studios may be releasing some films with an eye to cash flow rather than profits. The money to make Mulan, Tenent, and other films has already been spent. They know if they wait to release a film it will probably make more money, but if they feel like their bottom line will be better with a smaller amount of cash now instead of possibly more cash later it makes sense to release a film now. The stock market took a huge earlier hit this year. After a stock has lost significant value, everything else being equal, it isn't a great time to sell. But I am not the only person who found themselves needing money and selling low. Ironically, I chose to sell a portion of my Disney stock.
I cannot imagine Tenet having the kinds if legs the studio wants it to, because there are too many things eating into tht box office: people not wanting go even if cinemas reopen, having already practically "seen" the movie through discussions online coupled with the fact that you could be watching something safer, cheaper, newer, more easily understood on any streaming platform.
It says a lot of bad about Disney that a lot of their Disney Plus movies are films that were supposed to open in theaters, and not one of those movies has felt like something worth watching in theaters
I know it's old and has been done but would you do an essay on mad max fury road? Theres only a couple people I really enjoy watching film essays from here on youtube and none of them have done a comprehensive review I've tried watching others with longer more "in depth" analyses but I didnt find them satisfying and I would love your take on it
As an analogy, would an American be interested in watching a movie based on the life of George Washington that is written, directed and produced by Chinese nationals who have never lived in America, where the cast speak Mandarin, and filled with anachronisms like Washington living in a late 19th century building, armed with an early 20th century pistol and everyone won't stop talking about freedom?
so they controll the numbers reported. i thought they had no say in the matter. what preventing them going full Disney and only report good and inflated numbers? the honor system?
The Chinese Market kind of noticed the hypocrisy of making a movie about a Chinese Folk hero and virtue signaling about representation yet having no Asian writer in the room, you know, where it matters. The second thing is that the people probably did not like the casting very much. They don't like ugly actors, they like glamorous actors. And while no one in this movie is ugly per see, if I was to put appearance on a spectrum, these actors would definitely belong on the blander part of the spectrum. Next, the movie gets everything wrong about what people like about the character and they intentionally misinterpret the meaning of CHI and how it's made or used. To them, it feels like someone asked and they basically were told: Well it's the Force, basically. NO! It's not! Saying that CHI is like a superpower is like saying that praying to God makes magic swords of light fall from the sky. (Sigh) Next, the audience did not understand the Witch character AT ALL. Witches are a European thing, not a chinese thing. It was clear that shoehorning her in the movie was a huge mistake. Not to mention that they liked their antagonists to be smart and powerful not clumsy and foolish like in most Disney movies. So they immediately got bored with the movie. But if I were to say it in one phrase: This movie tried to do everything half-heartedly and failed completely at doing anything. It tried to be serious, but it's still a Disney Princess movie. It tried to pander to feminists but it's another dull power fantasy movie, it tried to pander to the Chinese audience but only put minimum effort in understanding it. All in all, a bland Meh, movie.
Over decades, with good quality movies and shows such as Red Cliff, The Longest Day in Chang'an, etc. , Chinese audiences had higher standard now, Disney's Mulan just seems like one of those cheap looking webmovie, not even comparable with the 2009 Chinese live-action Mulan, which according to most as mediocre, also the culture showing in the Disney movie seems more like Western Orientalism rather than actual Chinese.
I appreciate your reasonable coverage of this topic. As a Chinese-American, I feel your take is pretty fair, which is a breath of fresh air from the dog-piling that lots of media outlets have been doing
There’s like 1000 chinese movies / shows out there that are better and represent Chinese culture better than a US remake of Mulan. Chinese audiences watch Disney for the MCU stuff, NOT fake chinese stuff.
I just hope that maybe after all this, we might get a Nolan film next that's low budget like his earlier films. It would be cool to see him doing something like that again.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
It turns out when you try to please everyone....
You please no one.
Excellent comment
There's an old Chinese saying by Xunzi, "A man who travels two roads at once will arrive nowhere; a man who serves two masters will please neither." Not that Disney would know.
Jack of all trades. Master of none.
You are right.
Exactly.
I am Chinese, and as far as I concerned, almost every “Chinese element” in entertainment that was made in western seems off to me. We don’t have “representation problem”, so only putting in some Chinese actors does nothing for the Chinese audience, since we have watched all movies and tv shows with all Chinese actors. There is a cultural difference and I appreciate that Disney is trying to connect eastern and western audiences, it’s a minor setback, but I hope it will guide us to a better direction. Also, ancient Chinese people speaking English with a Chinese accent doesn’t help much lol.
Deadpool Chinese i never considered how weird that would be but your totally right.
@@d.b.scoville
I'm Mexican and seeing Coco speaking English with Mexican accent also felt weird. Also with movies about the holocaust and Germans speaking English with accents.
To be honest Disney should've realised that their version of this myth isn't about China but the Chinese-American diaspora. If they want to make a Chinese myth for China, Chinese audiences are gonna be wtf is this if you don't make it with a Chinese cast and crew. It would be like a Chinese crew making a Western in America with white ppl and trying to make it white liberal to pander to the Amercian audience... can you imagine?!?!
Dan got it bang on "trying to sell their own culture back to them" - the fucking hubris of Disney. If you want the audience you need someone from the audience on board behind the scenes!
@@SplatterInker it would actually be the equivalent of getting white people in a western and having them act in Mandarin and sell that to the US
You got that right!!! I have nothing against Liu, but she was very rigid. Asian cultures and American culture is so different. China is a censor heavy country, and with our liberties in America, one has to truly think about whether the demographic and geographic target is worth all the missteps.
Disney has no clue what Chinese audiences want. Instead of obviously pandering to them, maybe Disney could actually work with Chinese filmmakers and make Chinese-language films...
The only Disney films that appeal to China are the MCU.
Working with Chinese filmmakers would be great. But making Chinese language films is unlikely for Disney. Films done in English language make it more global. China may be a big part of box office audiences, but Disney making films in Mandarin would isolate box office audiences elsewhere in the world.
@@stormtraitor6545 Also the Fast and the Furious franchise is pretty big there. Basically, Chinese audiences like Hollywood blockbusters but they also have their own film industry for Chinese focused films so Hollywood films with Asian casts aren't necessarily a draw. I think BlueBobo is right, they should just co-partner with a Chinese production company to produce Chinese-language films.
@@oharawinter Especially if they get it wrong. Though how amazing would a Chinese movie about like George Washington or something be?
@@oharawinter
Can you not see that the Hollywood sign still there
As I listen to the Mulan story I start imagining a couple of Americans opening a pizzeria in Naples. The ingredients are sourced locally, as are the staff. For some reason, however, the Italians just aren't buying that cheese-stuffed crust and barbecue sauce base.
Fur sure brother! (sorry, couldn't help myself)
Great analogy
dont fotget the pineapples
@@diego1234561000 As a S.E. Asian who loves Hawaiian pizza (chicken & pineapple top) I'm sorry for our different tastes haha. If only I can eat a genuine Italian pizza made by an Italian in my country, but alas.
As an american teen living in Italy, a ton of Italians fucking love American style pizza lol theres a ton of copy cat American pizza shops here and they get big business. I swear you people have never even been to Italy to think this bullshit
Kind of miss him filming in his closet. The shirts were so well placed.
during one of those THR producers Roundtable talks, I heard Bob Iger say “If Mulan fails in China then we’re doing something very wrong” and I did a full spit take. Why did he think it was going to work in China?
1. There’s zero nostalgia for the animated film there, because the animated film is all kinds of offensive. From Mushu to the way they talk about honour. None of it is authentic, which makes sense because from top to bottom none of the creators (writers, director, character design) are even Asian, let alone Chinese. The matchmaking scene was so cringe that as a child I turned it off right there. They did nothing to rectify this in the Live action. AND NONE OF THE CREATIVES ARE CHINESE, AGAIN.
2. There’s no shortage of depictions of Mulan in China. There are quite a few films and a handful of tv shows. There’s this traditional opera song that is included in every traditional opera mashup that always happened every year at the Lunar Festival variety show which is seen every year by billions of people. They’re not desperate for another version.
3. Because it’s everywhere, the Chinese public ACTUALLY KNOW THE STORY SO THEY KNOW WHEN YOU’VE SCREWED UP. (Also Western storytelling vs Asian storytelling has different focus. Hero’s journey vs trials and tribulations to demonstrate the selfless sacrifice of the hero etc. My theory on the failure of the Star Wars franchise there is because all the saga films are pure heroes’ journeys. Which is very Judeo-Christian “chosen one” mythology that just isn’t as a deeply rooted narrative for them). They’ve at least fixed her last name this time, but they didn’t fix enough.
4. It’s a movie about Chinese characters, with (mostly) Chinese actors, set in China, but speaking English. Like who thought China was hungry for that?
Your point 3 is an interesting one rarely brought up anywhere else.
That's a good point, but I think it's mainly due to a lack of nostalgia. Western audiences are watching these remakes because they remind them of their childhoods. Is anyone in china really gonna look back fondly on the animated Disney version?
Thanks for this comment, really well said.
Are you actually saying that an American exec was totally oblivious to a foreign culture ? Nooooo, never seen that before^^
This was very educational.
I get that the average westerner had not considered these points (I hadn't), but that the people whose job it is to think of these things hadn't thought of it, that's insane.
Might have something to do with the main character being played by an actress who was voted by Chinese audiences as one of the worst actresses in all of China.
Might have to do with China having a million better versions of Mulan already permeating their culture and it's a story they have already seen and beaten to death themselves.
Might be that it was just a bad movie.
She's quite popular, not sure where the worst actress came from. Don't just make stuff up.
@@yukie_tn Chinese here,I lost interest the moment the casting was announced. Not a hater or anything (and I don't care what actors do outside of movies), she just can't act. I read Disney auditioned thousands of actors, and she's who they picked? Did they think that's Chinese style acting or something?
@@nessselfish7396 (RUclips swallowed my previous comment)
Chinese also, and not her fan. I just remember anticipation for the movie being high when she was cast. So dislike her all you want, it doesn't really matter. I was trying to be objective.
Surely Chinese audiences were just really disappointed by the lack of Eddie Murphy.
@@Deoxys911 as we all were
Having a Chinese writer for Mulan might have helped, lol.
And director
@@NateBeeman Ang Lee would've been perfect
@@npcimknot958 when the objective was to please chinese audience, something the animated film didn't do, yes, they should have had chinese writers
This still shocks me. No Chinese director, not one Chinese writer out of the 4.
Even the rest of the crew (costumes, sets, stunts) are scant in Chinese representation.
This ought to have been a guaranteed win for the Chinese market. It should’ve poured money. But I guess somebody wasn’t thinking.
Littikty Split hows that racist... if you want to make a movie on native Americans we can’t except people from England to make it good and look like authentic .... you need native Americans atleast on writing or directing... stop being ignorant...
It's the same lesson that the Japanese games industry learned a few years ago. Japan can't make Western games better than the West. Similarly, Hollywood can't make Chinese films better than China. You make what you know and hope it might end up having international appeal. It's what happened to superhero movies.
Spagetti Western movies like the Man With Name Trilogy, and the Magnificient Seven were influenced, rather remakes, of Japanese films such Yojimbo and Akiara kurosawa's the Seven Samurai. So, the Japanese can make Western just fine
Japan has made so many great Nintendo and Sony games for the western markets because gaming is a global language. Even back in the day they had some success with Space Invaders and other arcade games.
I'd say breath of the Wild is a really good Japanese take on a largely American genre of gaming.
A lot of gaming does not take place in the "real world". Mario, Sonic, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Dragon Age, The Elder Scrolls, Fortnite. Since these settings are not based on earth, maybe they can be more readily adopted by a variety of cultures.
Games like Persona or Yakuza were more niche until recently and heavily rely on Japanese culture. Fallout and now Horizon games are focused on a post-apocalyptic United States and I'm not sure how well they've been adopted outside the US.
Not sure what my point is or was now. Something about games are maybe easier to spread cross-culturally than movies.
Ghost of Tsushima is a massive hit in Japan
I’m so happy Disney’s China pandering backfired so spectacularly for them. Serves them right.
Your screen name makes me happy. 😅
I have to agree, obvious shallow and dishonest pandering should not be rewarded. It's quite insulting and while I'm not sure if the Chinese took it as the insult it was or just didn't care, I'm certainly happy they didn't fall for it (not surprised though it's not like Disney was particularly subtle).
From reviews it sounds like Mulan was just a bad movie. I don't see why they would think Chinese people would like a movie that wasn't even good. I highly doubt they're impressed because Disney set a movie in their country based on their folklore. They do have their own thriving movie market and have no reason to be excited about the crumbs Disney is tossing them.
‘Transformers: Age of Extinction’ is a critically panned movie that was half-set in China, and did financially amazing.
@@stormtraitor6545 While I personally do not like any of the Transformers movies, they're generally panned by critics and loved by audiences. Not really sure if it has much to do with it being half set in China. It still made over a billion dollars worldwide and was one of the highest grossing movies in the US the year it came out.
they white washed our Mulan story and threw it back at us expecting us to enjoy it. na , it aint it. i feel that disney still hasn't grasped the fact that you ca'tn resell our own culture to us and expect it to be a success, especially if we were not invited into the process. Yeah they had a whole cast of Asians in the film, but without that historical context and knowledge of ones culture, the failures of the movie were revealed. Disney should have hired at least some asians in their production crew... We know the story/subtleties/ reasoning behind the actions of why mulan did what she did better than a western producer who hasn't been integrated into that culture and knows that background context.
Never apologize for the broccoli. The broccoli is absolutely why we are here! That's why we followed you to the new channel! Broccoli on dude!
Is this about the food or the Bond producers?
@@mtumasz i was wondering the same thing, but it has to be the vegetable, as in eat your greens, something that's maybe not that popular but important. 🤔
I love Broccoli! Both the food, AND THE BOND PRODUCERS!
Uhhh.. did none of you actually watch this video? Dan referred to a story as broccoli, or not very interesting. I just meant that most of his fans specifically watch him because he likes to did into detail on stories that don't garner mass appeal, but are usually very important to the industry.
paraboo urban dictionary first meaning is POT. Now I’m kinda stoned about it😎
i can only imagine how difficult it must be to hear the dialogue in tenent at a drive-in
You clearly misheard the title. :p
I don't know about USA, but in SK, drive in means you tune into a radio channel and the audio is in your car. The audio is perfectly fine actually.
Sincerely Defiant It’s pretty much the same situation in the US.
Accented Cinema made a great video on Mulan and how he felt watching it as a Chinese man. He even compares it to Disney's original Mulan and how they seemed to understand the character more when they weren't so obviously pandering to China.
His channel is great in general but his perspective especially on Mulan is greatly needed.
My main issue with Live action Mulan is it wasn't a "sincere" attempt to honor Chinese culture. It was a very surface level reading of the folklore. And yes, it felt very pandering.
And I say this as an American. If there was a movie I would contrast it to, it would be Coco in how well they succeeded in paying tribute to Mexican culture.
I'm saying this as a native mexican, it is the reason why we loved Coco dearly.
I never forgot the attempt Disney made on trying to copyright Día de Muertos, and I will never forgive them for it. But, Pixar themselves were the ones that made an effort to study mexican culture, invite mexican peoples into the studios to give guidance, influenced themselves in particular from the region of Oaxaca.
Thanks to Pixar's open mind and willingness to reach out and learn from mexican culture, they made a film that we felt was made not only for us, but BY us. Every aspect of our culture, every person influential to our history and way of being, even a very afterlife was made after our beliefs with enormous creativity and love. I hate Disney, but Pixar themselves have always had heart and a willingness to learn about anything they wish to make a film about.
Mulan 2020 lacks any love. That film was made to fill a bottom line at the least cost possible, while thanking the Chinese government permission to not censor them on their hands and knees. And I am glad Disney paid dearly for it on all fronts.
I actually love the 2009's Mulan (Vicky Zhao). So if you're disappointed in Disney's 2020 Mulan, watch the 2009's version instead. That one's 99% Chinese & 1% Vitas (lol).
As a mexican who lives in México, we loved Coco, loved that stereotipe with the grannys and their chanclas and "come más, estás muy flaco" (eat more, you are too skinny) but, there were just a couple of things that were innacurate.
1. Border control. I guess Disney found it funny or it was a way that people from the states could understand, but within mythology of "Día de Nuestros" there's no Border control, If no one places a picture of you on an altar, your soul would just wander around all night or you could even end up sneaking into another house. There are people who even puts food and water for those who don't have anyone waiting for them.
2. That Land of the Dead... In the aztec culture, that place is called "Mictlán", And to get there they must go through many obstacles to find rest. Mictlán has no social differences because for the gods of death (Mictlatecuhtli "Lord of Mictlán", and Mictecacihuatl "Lady of the bones") does't matter if you are famous, rich or poor, we all walk the same path, because we are all the same after we die.
3. There's a bonus: when someone is completely forgotten, both gods of death eat him/her so his/her spirit can unite with the universe. And ever after that, that soul rebirth like a snail, a rabbit or a jaguar (there where a special group of warriors that after their deads, rebirth as jaguars, they were called "Guerreros Jaguar", and there were another type of warriors who revived as eagles, called "Guerreros Águila").
I know the last point was nothing to do with Coco, but I really love all the Cosmology about Día de Muertos and the aztec gods, so I just wanted to share that info.
Title: *mulan flops*
Me: oh wow maybe we won't get trash remakes anymore!!
Nope, more remakes are already planned years in advance.
Disney will never stop.
@@stormtraitor6545 And I will continue to not see them. Eventually they'll run out though, right? Or will they keep going and make a live action Bolt movie? Tangled? Frozen? Will they dare encroach on Pixar and make a live action Toy Story or Monsters Inc.?
This isn't what will happen. The horrible copy and paste remakes have made them money. If anything Disney will learn the wrong lesson and start making their remakes like Lion King and keep everything the same.
@@carlsiouxfalls Could be worse. They could remake Song of the South, but with the animated and live action parts swapped.
The costumes and production looked to me like the Chinese soap operas I used to watch as a kid. Surely Disney should do better than that TV budget. Chinese people don't want Chinese stuff sold to them by Western entitities, even if they try to be "authentic."
Taobao hanfu looks better 哈哈哈
I'm surprised you didn't bring up the issue of piracy as a possible reason why Mulan flopped in China, especially considering how it's Disney+ Premier Access debut happened a full week before it came out in China (Disney was reportedly aiming to get the film out in China a week before the D+ Premier Access debut).
MysteryMii it’s true that piracy was a problem in China, but for the recent years our government has made moves in eliminating piracy. My personal experience is that most of the piracy sites are shutting down and have to purchase on Chinese streaming platform. The piracy situation is almost the same as western world. So I don’t think it’s really the reason for the case of Mulan 😁
@@deadpoolchinese6570 maybe the Chinese autority have piracy under control in the close system that you call internet. However in the western world as you said noone has piracy under control because internet is worldwide and open.There is no overseeing body with a killswitch: they take down one site 3 clones open, they kick a site from a country 7 others might host it. Illegal torrenting might be down but illegal streaming is at an all time high.
The big reason piracy went down for a while was because of netflix catalogue and the concentration of shows that it had. But with the explosion of multiples streaming site and the repartition of content behind multiple pay wall, piracy is going up.
This is the thirs Mulan released in China in the last 2 years. Maybe thats a reason.
I don't think even pirates would touch this movie with a ten foot pole.
Whats more possible is that the Chinese people don't want to watch a foreign and false representation of a historical hero/culture they themselves have depticted numerous of times over the years in a more authentic way. As well as the pandemic
The answer is simple. The movie was directed and written by Westerners who don't really understand Chinese culture. Not surprising. Imagine if any Asian country were to make their own movie about Davy Crockett.... I'm sure there is an equal good chance of that flopping with American audiences.
Aside from that... the biggest reason why Mulan 2020 flopped was because they basically made her into "Rey Skywalker". Unlike the much better 1999 animated film... we did not get the hero we can root for and watch her work hard to make the transformation into an outstanding soldier.
To be honest I figured Mulan wouldn't do well in a non-hellscape release cycle if it released on March 30th
Hey! RUclips just put Dan’s channel in my home feed! Only took 4 months for me to realize he left SJU and has his own channel. Subscribed!!!
I love learning more about the nitty-gritty of how all these entertainment outlets get their numbers, what the gaps in knowledge are... You make some great broccoli Dan!
My brain saw your thumbnail and automatically inserted "Little" when reading it.... I need sleep.
What do you expect when your director, screenplay, cinematographer, composer, production designer... non are Asian let alone Chinese.
Littikty Split Rita Hsiao is literally listed as one of the 1998 screenplay
Littikty Split cartoon isn’t same as a live action movie 🤦♀️
its a disney movie from an american company, why they need to cast asians??? they need to cast the best ones in the field not the same race.
@@niallcraig6792 Sounds about white
@@niallcraig6792 because Orientalism in 2020 is not a good look and that's why it flunked in both china AND america. The Chinese (both in america and china) see through the bullshit and lackluster efforts of western hollywood to even try to make Mulan historically accurate. The theme that Mulan was born with this innate Chi inside her is such a western ideology. The Chinese don't believe in "the chosen ones and therefore they are innately successful." Even being a disney movie, the 1998 movie showed Mulan as a successful warrior because of her HARD WORK and perseverance, but in the 2020 live movie, she was just given the "chi" - which is cheap and uninspiring consider this was a war story. The cast were also given very one dimensional roles which did nothing for the overall movie. If you start to peel the layers you will see that this movie was bad all around in every aspect. You can cast the best asian actors from all over the world but if the project isn't from a genuine standpoint, it fails because people crave authenticity and this project did not deliver that at all.
I live in Asia, and honestly, I never thought Mulan would do great business in China. Many Asian countries have film industries of their own, and have had them for decades. We are used to having our stories seen on screen with authentic perspectives. I have seen Hollywood movies and shows set in my country, and they always come off as having diluted, lukewarm takes on the culture and people. And in some bad cases, quite superficial and cartoonish. The idea of telling a story set in Chinese history and war, by Hollywood, to the Chinese people... always felt like an endeavor that was doomed to not reap astounding rewards.
In China there’s a word Biazuo. They can sense the stink of it and reject it
I do have to wonder how much the marathon strategy for Tenet looking like being a dicey proposition is due to what the theater situation is like vs various feelings about Tenet as a movie itself. Tenet seems to come across as just ok or too heady (just general impressions I haven't seen it myself) but if they had done an easier crowd-pleasing popcorn movie (like I imagine Wonder Woman 84 is), then could the marathon strategy have worked for that?
Can anyone tell me HOW they managed to spend 200 million for Mulan and 100 million for Artemis Fowl? Did they heat the studio with dollar bills or what? Acting, special effects and editing were all sub par.
Considering how much Mulan strays from the actual mythology that Chinese audiences would likely be familiar with (and considering Western movies has really only gotten big in the Chinese market in the last couple of decades, I'm not sure how big of a deal Disney's Mulan would be for them), I'm not overly surprised.
Well when u make fake "chinese" looking sets and cut out any real character growth and basically insult the potential of a chinese historical mythology ppl dont go. I mean they had the chance to make an amazing movie but again disney fails horribly. Bring back Jungle book iron man director. Jungle book remake was only good live action one so far. Lion king=make it so acurate to real life you loose all character connections. Mulan= make it look and feel like a fake version of history and dont show her struggle again no connection. They shoulda went full on historical epic and brought back mushu not as 100% comedic relief but at least its not a dumb Phoenix that has no point. Or dumbass villians and a witch who could kill everyone but follows an idiot.... It just sucked and had SOOO much potential. Even a westerner like me saw the sets and cringed at how "make it look like china" was obviously the choice rather than ACTUALLY recreate historically the way that time frame would be. But sure every little chinese village all had best silks and nicest courtesans. Whoever decided to "soften" this movie should be fired. Shoulda went hard pg-13 historic epic focused on the animated story minus the kids comedy.
People should just watch the 2009 mulan if they wanted a good live action movie adaptation
The thing is; Disney always strayed from the material they adapt. Look at their fairytale movies. I don’t think it’s China’s familiarity that led to the movie’s demise. There were other reasons, such as the location it was filmed as well as the lead actress’ beliefs on police.
@@stormtraitor6545 hmm no tho, cause most Chinese supports what their government do, so mostly likely Mulan is just a bad movie
I am so glad I found your new channel as all this madness started because your weekly rundowns have kept me sane.
As far as Mulan goes, I'm glad it flopped. Maybe they will make new movies instead of rehashing their animated ones into disappointing live action versions.
@Dan how hard did you have to stop yourself from including *LITTLE* in that thumbnail? 😂🤔
"Theatres are struggling to reopen and most people are still hesitant to go out, let's move the rest of our release dates to November and December when the low temperatures and flu season are going to make everything worse than it is right now. Great idea :D"
- A bunch of Warner executives-
Dune is definitely moving. They probably just haven’t announced it yet as they’re probably figuring out dates. My guess is Feb so that it can still have Oscar chances, but we’ll see.
I heard on another video Disney might not be able to release some movies for 3 or 3 years
Mulan 2020, The literal poster child for: "when you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one"
I thought Rise of Skywalker was already the poster boy.
IMDB had Divergent available for free, so I think that's why Insurgent was in Amazon’s top ten.
I was waiting for thisssss
WB is literally setting Villeneuve up to fail
I mean, Dune has to move, right?
@@fedwyn I almost want to think that they reason why they haven't moved Dune yet was because they just dropped the trailer for the film.
@@MysteryMii I want to believe the same, there's still three months until December. So they have time to change the date if need be
They didn’t put a release date on the trailer though. So I think they are prepared and will move.
Bury in the sand
Not surprised MULAN flopped..I reviewed it on my channel and I didn’t really like it..and I’m Asian lmao
Dan, we LOVE it when you geek out on the internal business stuff. That's why we watch you. I'm 100% here to learn about the quirks of ticket reporting
Disney should have known it would fail from the start. As soon as the casting was announced, the Chinese public voiced their dislike almost immediately.
An excellent video as always Dan, thank you! I pray you and Mara are staying safe and healthy!
I would be honored and delighted to do a bit of speculation based on how the streaming charts look in this video, of you don't mind: do you suppose that the pandemic has led people to experiment more with the genres of films they are watching, expanding their horizons? Or do you think it's more likely that people are reverting to comfortable rewatches of films they've seen before, hence why films like Due Date and The Smurfs are clinging on?
You are crushing it, Murrell. Checked out your totals and you are pulling great numbers in comparison... to others. Way to go off on your own during uncertainty.
One thing to consider about theaters being open. For parents to go out without kids they often need a babysitter and that’s still really hard to do, especially if there isn’t a family member that could watch them. My wife and I are comfortable going to a theater with restrictions, but we just can’t because bringing in a one of the girls we often use for sitting right now is not something anyone is really comfortable doing.
You are absolutely smashing it Dan, keep up the great content and stay safe!
WB and Disney planned to release two of their biggest budget films in this year (Tenet and Mulan) and COVID said b*tch please. I get Nolan/WB's ambition (box office would have likely been great if no Covid) but Mulan was never going to please Chinese audiences for the reasons you stated Dan.
I'm in Norway and Disney+ just launched here (Sep 15th). So, back in August, when Disney announced Mulan would to go to Disney+ Premier Access where Disney+ was available, and Cinemas where it wasn't, I was wondering if Mulan would go to cinemas or Disney+ here. Well, it turns out it's neither. Mulan is not in cinemas here, and it won't come to Disney+ until December.
It's a shame Disney don't release data for Disney Plus. I'd like to know how Mulan is doing on Premier Access. I suspected it has probably completely flopped there too, because £19.99 is just way too much for early access.
Nolan films are made to be watched in a theater, but me and my friends right now are just not yet comfortable enough to go to the movies. If it eventually comes back for a second release when things settle down, I can certainly see it doing much, much better.
I decided to stop by an Edwards / Regal movie chain this week after work just out of curiosity and saw less than half a dozen guests in the lobby. I then decided to watch Tenet at 7:30p and ended up the only person in the cinema. I live in southern California, so I was pleasantly surprised by this. Tenet was definitely a film better watched in a cinema, so you might be able safely do so in your area if my recent experience is an indicator of current theater attendance.
On the domestic chart, it actually seems like STX actually updated The Gentleman's numbers by $200K so nows its domestic total is $36,471,795. They actually gave the day by day from March through lockdown to drive-ins and smaller theaters playing it in May/June.
Thank you Dan for keeping us afloat - especially for the updated release schedule at 12:16 !
What happened was that the disheartening realization that someone snuck into Dan's place and forcibly put Jurassic World into Dan's movie collection making him hostage to owning the movie and us fans haven't been able to move on from this since lol
I have a very important question: Where can I find that NES desk mat?
I want that too....it will match my phone case
This is the only comment that matters 👍
Charts with Dan is my favourite RUclips show! Great episode, the Tenet Warner Bros strategy breakdown was really interesting, as was the Mulan discussion.
It can't see why it only needs $400mil break even, Don't movies like this need to at least triple their budget due to marketing? I can't stand this number fudging being done by WB through the trades and I'm disappointed in the trades for running with this because before the pandemic if a blockbuster only doubled its budget the trades would quickly call it a flop. They can't just change the formula to calculate movie profitability just because its doing poorly that's not how financial analysis works.
I was coming here to say something similar but I was thinking I wouldn't have to because I was convinced Dan would pick up on that BS immediately but at least you did.
They need to triple their budget in order to make a profit
@@athenajaxon2397 No you make a profit after you triple the budget because thearters get a cut, creditors get back the budget and then marketing budget is accounted for (everybody forgets marketing except the trades in normal circumstances). What's left's from there is then profit for the studio.
Think about it like this if the budget is 200mil and the movie makes 400mil theaters get half (really its 40-50% and like 70% in china) leaving back 200mil to recoup the budget but what about the 150-180mil marketing budget? They need another 200mil to recoup that. Only after all of that is accounted for then what remains is profit on their balance sheet.This is why prepandemic ,you can look up these articles from a couple months ago, WB was pushing for Tenet to make $700-800mil even going as far as giving Nolan a cut which further increased what the movie has to make to turn a profit for themselves.
I don’t understand how they could put their eggs in the china basket and China doesn’t even like the film? As soon as I found out the director and writers weren’t even Chinese I was giving this film the side-eye, then I saw the trailer and them using south China abodes for Mulan’s village when everybody knows Mulan was from NORTHERN China - after that I knew this film was going to miss the mark.
I love the weekly fix of box office numbers! Dan’s the man 🤘🏻
This channel deserves more followers. I think (still today) people are not aware of this channel here! You should start a few collaborations Dan. Maybe with Stuckmann or Jeremy. You have so much to tell about movies - much more people should hear it.
Hi Dan! I hope you’re having a great day
Monday is the best day of the week because of Dan ❤️
"Like a Boss had hoped to. . . Klingon" I think I'm looking too deep for Trek references when there are none.
I was interested in seeing what this movie had in store, but if it'll come to Disney plus without extra payment pretty soon, I'm in no rush to pay extra.
I do remember the first trailer, it was serious, solemn, and carried a distinct weight that I found really exciting. Had my hope a little to high.
That New Mutants observation about it being the only movie that did not change its release date really put 2020 into perspective for me.
God, 2019's Box Office could have never predicted 2020s.
Congratulations on your win this weekend 🐐
Disney was a victim of it's own greed, to try and please China, they cut the most nostalgic elements of the adaptation (Mulan's arc and the music primarily), alienating the western fans everywhere else in the world; and China, that didn't like Mulan the first time around, still doesn't like it... it's Aesop's fable of the dog and it's reflection all over again, hope they learn their lesson.
Glad you stayed away from much of the politics about the Mulan movie Dan. I think the news is very important, but this channel isn’t the place to discuss it. I personally hope Disney takes a moment to reflect on this moment, having egg on their face after the second failure in China with the same film. I’m sure they don’t feel too good about that.
Out of the eleven films you listed showing New Mutants as being the only one released, there were only 3 films there that weren't remakes or sequels/prequels.
Since not going to the cinema is a ready option that has set in after 6 months of practically no releases, maybe people are just choosing not to see the slops from roundtables anymore. There are millions of stories bound between covers, stacked side-by-side in libraries. Surely something new can be found to be put to screen?!?!?
I didn't even know my theater was open until this video made me check.
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on Cuties. But if you don't want to watch it, I totally understand.
I genuinely think we just got used to not going to the theater and forgot to go. But I’m a remake skeptic and chose not to go.
I'm curious about the relevance of home releases in the near future. Tenet won't necessarily make a lot of money in the theater but I think you're very possibly gonna have more people buying physical copies after it's out of theaters. There are cases of movies that were flops that manage to make their money once people start buying the home release, Dredd comes to mind, but that movie's budget was much smaller than Tenet. We'll see, maybe it will make studios pay more attention to physical sales, which maybe, all ten fingers crossed, will mean we get a Dredd sequel.
I actually saw New Mutants last Sunday at 1PM. Surreal experience one other patron no problem social distancing. Good new the ticket cost $8. Had absolutely no problem with parking.
If you told me last year that in September, Bad Boys for Life would be the top of the Domestic and International charts for the YEAR with Sonic in the top 3 for both, I would never have believed it. It's still so surreal to see.
I just noticed 80k subscribers and 60k views. Wow that's really great!
Dan, I’m very curious about this and maybe you can get into it in one of your episodes. I’m just curious why film studios want to break into the Chinese film market so badly. I know they take a high percent of gross from American releases but I heard that they don’t get that much from Chinese theatres. Also, why do North American theatre chains allow a company like Disney to take almost 70% of opening weekend gross and sometimes beyond that when Chinese theatres just say no? Surely American theatre chains must know how much Chinese theatres keep?!
Because governments don't just think in terms of money but also political power/propaganda?? Maybe?? And the Chinese government is way more involved. So the theatres aren't the ones keeping the money, the government is, and they get to keep it because they can always threaten to censor the film or ban it entirely from their multi million dollar market. But that is entirely speculation on my part!!
@@SplatterInker that is exactly how it works. Large portions of the money you make in that market goes to the Chinese government or you don't do business in China. They happily censor their films on their own and edit them with added chinese characters and shit to try to appeal to China. Its why they freaked out whenever the director wanted to make a different type of movie for Doctor Strange. The Chinese market influences every major film that is released by Disney.
The difference is that the US puts the profit motive above everything else. They have no problem using authoritarian tactics on the public but play a subservient role to private capital. American politicians tend to put short- and medium-term goals first and focus on GDP, unemployment and other figures that aren't very useful for assessing quality of life.
The Chinese government is thinking about how the country will look in the next few decades. They have ambitious development goals in sight and won't sell out their future for the sole benefit of billionaires. Madness!
What I wish he had talked about was how Mulan's box office compared to how other films have done in China since their theaters reopened. Comparing Mulan to the Last Jedi doesn't seem particularly helpful in understanding the 2020 Chinese box office. One thing, I believe we all should keep in mind is studios may be releasing some films with an eye to cash flow rather than profits. The money to make Mulan, Tenent, and other films has already been spent. They know if they wait to release a film it will probably make more money, but if they feel like their bottom line will be better with a smaller amount of cash now instead of possibly more cash later it makes sense to release a film now. The stock market took a huge earlier hit this year. After a stock has lost significant value, everything else being equal, it isn't a great time to sell. But I am not the only person who found themselves needing money and selling low. Ironically, I chose to sell a portion of my Disney stock.
I cannot imagine Tenet having the kinds if legs the studio wants it to, because there are too many things eating into tht box office: people not wanting go even if cinemas reopen, having already practically "seen" the movie through discussions online coupled with the fact that you could be watching something safer, cheaper, newer, more easily understood on any streaming platform.
It says a lot of bad about Disney that a lot of their Disney Plus movies are films that were supposed to open in theaters, and not one of those movies has felt like something worth watching in theaters
I can't believe Wonder Woman was supposed to be out on December 2019. I guess WB are really regretting pushing it back
Should someone be looking for the Mulan-specific segment, it starts at 14:23 .
Just subscribed from my second account. I realized I wasn't getting charting notifications on my tablet, had to fix that.
I know I'm late. But I need to know. Dan, where did you buy your t-shirt on the video?!
When will Mulan's reflection show who it is inside?
Thanks for the lesson Dan
I know it's old and has been done but would you do an essay on mad max fury road? Theres only a couple people I really enjoy watching film essays from here on youtube and none of them have done a comprehensive review
I've tried watching others with longer more "in depth" analyses but I didnt find them satisfying and I would love your take on it
Just in time to catch this! For the record... Mulan was super mediocre even without the layers and layers of what was problematic about it 😬
Did anyone else hear him say less than 50$ at 15:47 ? Lmao
Happy to see The Social Dilemma in the Netflix chart
It's not surprising that Mulan flopped. It's a terrible film.
As an analogy, would an American be interested in watching a movie based on the life of George Washington that is written, directed and produced by Chinese nationals who have never lived in America, where the cast speak Mandarin, and filled with anachronisms like Washington living in a late 19th century building, armed with an early 20th century pistol and everyone won't stop talking about freedom?
This is a wild wild box office world man.
The studios not reporting their numbers sounds like a major scoop for a hotshot journalist
Are you going to do any coverage of TIFF or the film festivals?
Great episode! Will you do any film festival-related episodes? Would love to hear your thoughts on the winners, come this Oscar season🏆
so they controll the numbers reported. i thought they had no say in the matter. what preventing them going full Disney and only report good and inflated numbers? the honor system?
The Chinese Market kind of noticed the hypocrisy of making a movie about a Chinese Folk hero and virtue signaling about representation yet having no Asian writer in the room, you know, where it matters.
The second thing is that the people probably did not like the casting very much. They don't like ugly actors, they like glamorous actors. And while no one in this movie is ugly per see, if I was to put appearance on a spectrum, these actors would definitely belong on the blander part of the spectrum.
Next, the movie gets everything wrong about what people like about the character and they intentionally misinterpret the meaning of CHI and how it's made or used. To them, it feels like someone asked and they basically were told: Well it's the Force, basically. NO! It's not! Saying that CHI is like a superpower is like saying that praying to God makes magic swords of light fall from the sky.
(Sigh) Next, the audience did not understand the Witch character AT ALL. Witches are a European thing, not a chinese thing. It was clear that shoehorning her in the movie was a huge mistake. Not to mention that they liked their antagonists to be smart and powerful not clumsy and foolish like in most Disney movies. So they immediately got bored with the movie.
But if I were to say it in one phrase: This movie tried to do everything half-heartedly and failed completely at doing anything. It tried to be serious, but it's still a Disney Princess movie. It tried to pander to feminists but it's another dull power fantasy movie, it tried to pander to the Chinese audience but only put minimum effort in understanding it. All in all, a bland Meh, movie.
Hey Dan, what’s with the cricket bat? You a fan?
Over decades, with good quality movies and shows such as Red Cliff, The Longest Day in Chang'an, etc. , Chinese audiences had higher standard now, Disney's Mulan just seems like one of those cheap looking webmovie, not even comparable with the 2009 Chinese live-action Mulan, which according to most as mediocre, also the culture showing in the Disney movie seems more like Western Orientalism rather than actual Chinese.
I appreciate your reasonable coverage of this topic. As a Chinese-American, I feel your take is pretty fair, which is a breath of fresh air from the dog-piling that lots of media outlets have been doing
There’s like 1000 chinese movies / shows out there that are better and represent Chinese culture better than a US remake of Mulan. Chinese audiences watch Disney for the MCU stuff, NOT fake chinese stuff.
I just hope that maybe after all this, we might get a Nolan film next that's low budget like his earlier films. It would be cool to see him doing something like that again.