Why Are Used Porsche 911s So Expensive? Owner's Review of 12 Year Old 997 Carrera S (996, 997, 991)
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- Опубликовано: 18 ноя 2022
- Used Porsche 911s hold their value very well because they are fun to drive, still look great years later, and are generally reliable compared to its other sports cars it competed against. For me, my 2010 Porsche 911 Carrera S has had no major issues aside from minor squeaks and rattles. Need Porsche help or purchase advice? Book a consultation with me. calendly.com/carfanatic
Links to my mods can be found below:
👉 Porsche Apple CarPlay / Android Auto Retrofit Kit: bit.ly/3sgBIWf
👉 Porsche Diagnostic Scanner (to clear service lights & other maintenance): thecreatorstash.com/collectio...
👉 Porsche IXI Gears Shift Knob: thecreatorstash.com/collectio...
👉 Porsche Wheel Spacers: thecreatorstash.com/collectio...
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- Porsche 911 Buyer's Guide Series: • ✪ Which 911 should you...
- Porsche 911 Ownership Videos - • Porsche 911 Ownership
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- Product Reviews & Tutorials: • Product Reviews
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- Rode VideoMicro Mic: amzn.to/2hJWMkY 
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Need Porsche help or purchase advice? Book a consultation with me. calendly.com/carfanatic
Before I hop into the video all I want to say is I am once again INCREDIBLY HAPPY you made the best choice of not selling her!
Thank you! I don't think I'll be getting rid of her anytime soon. Maybe one day though if I upgrade to a GT3, but that's a pretty different car and wouldn't be a good daily.
Massive kudos to you for being adventurous enough to fix those issues yourself.
Congratulations on using your skills and initiative to keep one of the best looking 911s running like new. Your mods tastefully enhance the car's appearance without drawing attention to it. (I would cringe with embarrassment if I had to drive a current GT3 RS on a public road.) Not sure why you would want a louder muffler -- but then I'm old and you are young and that is probably all there is to it. If you choose, you could do a follow-up to this vid a couple of decades from now and probably your 911 would look and run almost exactly the same. Bravo!
Great video! Hope you will do more diy videos on how you maintain and fix your 997! I followed your steps on the water drains and it was so helpful!
Great choice of using the film to protect your paint as many who drive beauties forget to protect this area, love the bumper change adding to the style along with the spacers added for a flush over sunken look, and the SHORT SHIFT KIT is a HUUUGE YES!
- Love the video and back for ALL OF THEM TO COME
Thanks for this great, informative vid! I zeroed in on it because I have a 2005 Carrera (997.1). The car has been a dream, and I've actually not had the series of annoying little maintenance issues that you have faced with your car (your car is BEAUTIFUL, BTW). One from your list that I did deal with was the front strut bump stops. Mine were shredded also. A bit of work to replace, but a simple process in the end. Like you, I've had zero major problems with the car. They are wonderful machines!
The sunroof issue could be that your track is off by a tooth or misaligned. It's a real headache to deal with but with some patience you can it to work by removing the inner panel then the outter. Good time to replace the seal as well.
I can't believe you did so much work and fixed all those rattles. My Panamera has a steering column rattle that I haven't been able to completely eliminate.
My 2005 Carrera S now passing 114000 miles, unopened engine, no major issues, OCI at 5000 miles, oil analysis show allmost no wear metals, Fantastic cars
Love it! I just bought new 992 GTS and I can’t put it in words, how good this Machine is. I am planning to keep it at lest 3 years
Beautiful car btw! The paint/coating you did absolutely makes it look very updated.
Don't be daunted replacing the door lock, I did it on my 996 and it was easier than expected. Main thing is to take care to not scratch the paintwork or damage the trim.
Regarding wrapping. I had my 2010 Targa4S fully wrapped, custom, after some paint and body work on about half the car. The rest I touched up with a paint pen as AMMONYC suggested. He now suggests a hypodermic, which is how I would do it. Either method just fills the chip with no overspray. My hood was resprayed (by a shop that mostly does Porsche's) but I didn't have the bumper one of the fenders, a door, repainted and just touched them up. The touch ups are slightly visible on the bumper but much better on the other panels. I touched dozens of little chips and the car looks excellent wrapped. You might consider paint correction, which is advisable before wrapping, but may expose more previously chipped or touched up areas.
My real interest is the rear hatch of the Targa. I only have one car, living in NYC, and it needs to be somewhat practical. For my lifestyle, and wanting a true sports car, the Targa is one of the few choices in that category. I've transported a mountain bike with the wheel off, 49"tv in the box, and regularly use it for decent sized film shoots with C stands. The Vette C7 is the other somewhat practical sportscar.
Like the mods, all very subtle but tie together well
Great video, I had a 997.1 and was able to enjoy it for 3 years and sell it for more than I paid for it. I now drive a BMW E53, which is the only vehicle I could see myself driving other than a 911. I am getting the Porsche bug again and the 997.2 Carrera S coupe with Sport mode and PASM is what is on my radar.
Recently purchased a 997.2 S Manual. It's sooo goood!!
Glad I watched your video. Now I am happier with my 911 and more confident on keeping it in great shape.
That turbo is awesome. You kept it clean, in great condition with a great look.
Hey man, I am in DFW as well - I have been wanting to buy one of these used. Your video is confidence inspiring, however, I have been brainwashed since I was a kid to only buy Japanese made cars by my parents haha! Prices are still crazy- Hopefully, one day!
I have a 997.1 and the car is sooo good ... Not my daily driver but no major issues in my 5yrs of ownership and way more car than you ever need for road use ....love It ! My Gen 1 Cayenne is no different ...
Wooowweeee, bruv you’ve had this car for a looooong time, I’m absolutely impressed you kept this car all that time, glad to see you still have her and still rocking her proudly 👌🏿. Cheers from London Town 👍🏿
Thanks so much! I have a hard time parting ways with things i like. This isn't good in terms on having new content ideas for the channel, but I'm not a full time RUclipsr like others out there.
@@CarFanatic you are the real deal, I knew when you first got this car and the previous one you had. I like the real world info you shared with your older car, the knowledge and with this as well, so thank you for being the real deal 👌🏿🙏🏿
@@y0057 agree, but 911’s the older they get the better in capable ownership.
Very impressed with your skill and your tasteful mods. I ordered a 2022 992 Targa4S. Took 13 months to arrive. I wish I had your skills. I will have to Pay Porsche for all labor.. ouch!
Nice summary. I have a .1S Cab and surprisingly I have no rattles at all even with the top up. Knock on wood! The 997 is a great car.
Your channel and this info is amazingly great. Thanks
Great tip on tightening the rear window frames. My car is making the exact same noise and I couldn’t figure out where it was coming from. Thanks.
Check out my window rattle fix video for the detailed diy. If you tap on the window on both sides and hear a difference, it could be the rear window.
very cool! no complaints here about the Cayenne, I'm considering buying a 2016 S
Nice 911 gen 2 997 . I own a Cayman S 987 gen 2 of the same model year. I had to replace one of the clutch switches myself, as I was reaching under the dash to complete the circuit to start the car.
Your mods are tasteful and the car looks great!
Thanks Billy!
Liked the video. You highlighted some small issues that I've also had with my car. Nothing serious though and all easy fixes. I own a Porsche 997 Carrera 4S from 2007, it drives and handles like a dream ... the 3.8L engine is upgraded to 280 kW (381 CV). It also has protective transparent foil on the front sections and side mirrors. The next "maintenance" I have planned is more cosmetic than a repair. I'm having a few stone chips and scratches removed from the wheels and refinishing the surfaces with a clear lacquer. A quick question : what size are the wheel spacers you put on the car ? Did you fit them front and rear ? My Porsche dealership tells me the maximum they recommend is 5mm (thickness) ... and of course you would need longer wheel bolts. let me know. Thanks !
They’re very solid. I use a 996 Turbo as an everyday , kept outside. 100,000 miles. No major issues. Cheap running costs.
I have a '01 C4 coupe 6 sp with 60K on the clock. Replaced the A/O separater, coolant overflow tank, resealed the cam covers, replaced the battery, instrument panel bulbs, and normal scheduled mtc. Original clutch and IMSB. First brakes done at 60K, and was fronts only. The car drives like new. I've had none of the squeaks and rattles mentioned. The car is quiet and tight.
I had no idea about the carplay/android auto. I'm gonna look into that
Because they are 1. Exceptionally well made, 2. Styled timelessly, 3. possess an endless enthusiast base
Good vid! Costs most of us 1-2k every time we bring the car in lol
Good video! My 991.1S has been very reliable, similar to yours. Seems like rattles were one of the more common issues but as you said they were all fairly straightforward to fix once you find them (which is the hard part!) I did a similar cost of maintenance issue for my Lotus Elise on my channel.
Maybe I should tell people I ceramic coated my exhaust tips black, even though they are just dirty. 🤣
This is a great video. Thanks!
Excellent video!
VERY GOOD VIDEO. THANK YOU.
Great video thanks!
That sir is a beautiful piece art. Great carl. Why is the Cayenne getting hate? My dream car is a 1987 959. Brilliant video it was thoroughly enjoyable. Cheers.
Because the Cayenne has had a lot of issues
This is a 997.2 right? It occurs to me that this must be a pretty desirable model as it was the end of the line for the more analog but still modern 911s, and it also came out during the Great Recession so there probably weren't that many sold. You didn't talk about the appreciation/depreciation side of cost of ownership but I'd imagine it's done pretty well for you even 7 years into owning it!
I can definitely sell it for at least what i bought it for!
Yeah the facelift models ('09-'12) are the ones to get. I wouldn't bother with any prior to that year, they had gross issues with engine block metallurgy. From '99-09 Porsche had serious QC issues. Anything before or after are fine.
@@PaulEubanks if youre talking about the IMS issues with the engine, or bore scoring, those are adressable on the 997.1 models. I own a 997.1 06' carrera non S, its at 75K miles now on the stock IMS bearing, since the M96.05 engines actually did not have the issue as much as the 996s (M96.01-.04) engines had, at higher mileages the bearing lasting means it will last as much as an aftermarket fix. If you do want one, but you cant quite budget a 997.2, a 997.1 will be as reliable as a .2 aslong as youre comparing a higher milage one with a higher milage one. I would however not touch a 997.1 at below 50K miles, as they may have problems with the engine that may or may not show up.
@@egeerm8832 Yes, after you drill a passage to direct feed the oil bearing, and pay a machine shop to re-sleeve the cylinders properly, and then you still have to deal with potential connecting rod failures and shifter cables snapping; and at that point you've spent enough to have just bought a 997.2 in the first place. Plus you'd have the added benefit of the PDK option if you choose, and the much needed interior update. The interior on the pre-facelift models is... yuck.
A lot hyperbole regarding the 997.1 and various engine issues including bore scoring. Let it be said that this happens to only a handful of cars and is not endemic. A lot of these cars have been badly treated by previous owners. The 3.8 suffers with cooling issues on one of the cylinders. One of the main ways of avoiding engine damage is to not accelerate hard from a standing start, you must get the cooling going before opening up. The Gen 2 is a lovely car and a stock version (sorry) is what is most desirable and of value. Having said that, I am very surprised at the issues you have had with yours. I drive a 100% stock Gen 1 S. In ten years I have had the following issues:
Both front suspension control arms replaced.
Passenger side electric window mechanism replaced.
Cooling pipe work (front to rear) both sides replaced.
Alternator replaced.
Both condensers replaced.
Sports exhaust vacuum valves replaced.
Phone module failed (removed)
CD interchanger failed (removed)
The majority of the above was done with the Porsche warranty. I am installing a Bluetooth mod for the PCM to replace the phone and CD modules. For those who can’t stretch to a 997.2, I would recommend a ‘good’ 997.1 Carrera or S. By good I mean one with a rock solid history and preferably less previous owners! Check for carbon deposits on the exhaust tips. If you see that on one side in particular, walk away.
Hi, I have a 05 Carrera convertible 997. My heat seats is not working. Can you me a some tip ? What to do
There are actually 2 factors for these 911 keeping a lot of value: branding as this is a 911, and the long lasting of previous 911.
But in the long run, too much sensors, contactors, over-engineering, will make them very expensive to maintain on a dealer (for most of us), and too much "electronic" (that is computer network in fact) will kill some of them.
It's not old enough 911. I've been following and the old air cooled, esp. 964 and 993 are silly expensive now. They're about used 991 prices and keep going up. But those cars had only like 50.000 production run. Newer production runs are about 150.000-200.000 per model. My point? These will keep their value well but I doubt they will appreciate like the classic ones. Cheers, nice video and car. I own a 996 4S myself.
Your interior is in a amazing condition for real I have a 2007 carrera 4s with 37k miles and the plastic is not in very good condition but I know I can fix it and it’s not too expensive
Some people have said that Porsche improved the materials for the 997.2 vs the 997.1. i don't know if this is true or not. What's going on with your interior?
Am I not seeing the information on the suspension mod?
Most of us aren’t mechanically inclined so I would’ve to take it to the dealer or a shop to get those repairs and would probably cost about $5000 or more to do all the little repairs not counting tires or brakes
Great video. Been following your progression of the 911 for some years now. If you were going to do it it over again, and buy a used Porsche today, with a budget up to $80K US, which Porsche (and trim level would it be)? Assume you can pick a Cayman or 911. I think the Porsche market is finally getting back to earth and softening for the next few months, so there will be some good opportunities out there.
Great question. I haven't kept up with the latest prices, but the 997 GTS, 981 Cayman GT4, 991 GTS, and 991.2 Carrera S would all be on my list.
@@CarFanatic Good examples! Love all of the cars you listed.
My 200k miles 2000 Toyota Corolla. I replaced 3 set of tires, 3 batteries, 2 brake jobs, 1 set front rotors, some oil changes, some air filters, still have original plugs!
Fair point. If you took it for an inspection, i bet you'd discover plenty of issues that need to be addressed. No doubt the Corolla is a more reliable and cheaper car to own. I just want to point out that many owners just fix significant issues. Because i like having my car in pristine condition, I fix even the littlest issues.
is the 911 targa 4s 997.2 good to buy for investment?
I want a 996 or the cheapest 997 i can find. I think I could do half the repairs you described
Sunroofs on Ps always leak and rattle. Amazing to see how many problems arise with a $100K+ car!
Hey how did you identify where the rattles were coming from? I've got a 997 with a couple annoying chatters I'd like to sort out. One may be the same as your first rattle, on the driver rear window.
It was a pretty annoying process. I would try to tap around to replicate the noise or have someone ride with you to try to find the noise. The better way would be to use chassis ears like this: amzn.to/3ECsmJW
Damn what group size is that battery
Yeah, rattling is unfortunately a thing with that generation of Porsches. My 987.2 Boxster rattles, too.
I'd prefer using a highly reliable German Shop Mechanic. They have one around here that specialize in Porsche's. Greff Motor's. They are not as expensive as dealers and more personal and sometimes more trustworthy.
991.1 C4S dark blue metallic here. Acquired at 23k miles and now at 37k miles. Wondering if I should invest in PPF on the front. Front bumper and hood have minor imperfections, but overall paint is very good. Does PPF hide paint imperfections and make for a like new appearance?
It won't. However, i added PPF at 67k miles. I just touched up the rock chips with Dr Color Chip beforehand. That worked like a charm!
@@CarFanatic Thanks. Yep, I have had success with the Dr. too!
Have you had any issues with your exhaust mods passing emissions for inspection?
I've always passed. The mods are all after the cats so they don't impact emissions, just noise.
How did you spend $100 to fix the loose door handle issue (which is way too common)? Easy repair but I only spent $15 to do it. Readily available part at Rock Auto.
The door handles mechanism may have been cheaper. I just estimate it to cost around that much. I also purchased new door panel clips because they tend to get beat up when you remove them.
Cup holders, the bane of drivers. If you want to drink, stop and take break. A small plastic water bottle is all that’s needed on the go.
Yup, I'm sick of seeing nitwits point out 'the wonderful cupholders' on their homemade vids ... like so what? At GBP 40k s/h .... clutching at straws so to speak. Exactly, plastic bottle etc good enough ...
WD40 and Duck tape. That's all you'll ever need to fix every problem you mentioned and every problem you will ever have.
You do not need to take this car to the dealer or a shop to maintain or fix most things. They are easy to work on. Don’t let the badge scare you!
Everything good, except installing spacers to increase the front track could creates handling issues if the car is driven aggressively. Also, modifying the exhaust system could nullify the antipollution provisions. I assume, therefore, that you didn't replace any part of it that had a catalytic converter. It's enjoyable to read about the experiences of a sports car driver whose enjoyment from owning and driving your car comes across so well.
Hey man, great video! Are you interested in selling the Carrera?
Not really, but everything has a price. What's your email?
DMd you on IG 👍🏼
If I bought one of these, I would add the 991.2 steering wheel to it. 997 steering wheel is the most outdated thing in the interior, plus it’s the thing you are touching the most
These charges, if done at Porsche , would have been way, way more than 2-3000 dollars …. My 4 year maintenance on my cayman GTs was quoted at 3500 in itself!
I just meant repairs. The dealership charges an arm and a leg for maintenance which is why I've done it all myself. But it is becoming harder to do now. There's just never enough time in the day.
@@CarFanatic yeah… mine is CPO and extended Porsche warranty, so I’d like to be as transparent as can be by going to dealer or reputable independent shop… but damn the prices are outrageous!
Really like your car. I like the gray paint and what you did with the wheels. A few things I would update - either a modern 911 steering wheel or send that stock steering wheel out to hide ALL that hideous metal in supple black leather. Most importantly there are updates available now to update those ugly old style brake lights to the next OEM gen LED tail lights. Then your car will be PERFECT. And look into whether there is a Unitronic tune available for your car as well.
Just put my 2011 Cabrio for fun in Carava, they offered $25.000 Hahahahahaha. And the cheapest on their site no options at all goes for $50K+
Lol it's because they're going out of business
Still a great looker.
Can you ref the clip you did the Plasti Dip app ? I want to do the same in flat black.
Unfortunately, I didn't make a video of it. This video shows you the basic process though. ruclips.net/video/xMd5hmqlPmY/видео.html
@@CarFanatic This will work. Thank you
Quick answer: because 911 is an iconic sports car whereas the Cayenne is a Touareg with a Porsche badge.
Who would want a louder exhaust that makes every longer trip a pain in the butt?
Ever thought of becoming a Certified Porsche Mechanic? maybe you can even post all your interesting repairs on a channel like that..
I definitely don't have the patience nor time for that. Just simple stuff for me! One day when I retire, maybe!
Please 5207 & 5208...interesting.
Great lube has no boundaries!
Love 911s but holy smokes all those issues under 100k miles? For a car costing $100k?
In the Lexus world that's a lemon lol
Tony Lewis Life
Nice car sir .
Thank you Jerry! I hope you've been well.
@@CarFanatic you are welcome sir, I have been fine thanks sir hope you have been as well.
did you sell this car?
Nope!
Why are used 911's so expensive? Because they remain desireable. Old guys who dreamt of owning one when they had family responsibilities had their children grow up and can finally can own one today. Younger guys with limited budgets can own a stylish classic. If reliability and low maintenance cost were the main reasons then old Toyotas and Lexus would still cost a bomb today.
does not look like an aero kit.
It's the aero bumper. The aero kit has a different front lip and a rear spoiler.
The chayene exist so they can keep building the legendary 911!!
Great way to look at it!
It's more sexy the 911 careera is brilliant car more practical
So you buy a $250,000 car and the shit rattles and is falling apart. Our 2016 Subaru Forester has had nothing done to it in 7 years apart from a set of tyres. I'll stick with the Japanese.
Porsche 911 values have been stabilizing and falling over the last 60-90 days. They fluctuate based on the economy.
That's not a 911s. It's a 911 sr. Rattle edition!!
All the rattles and failures of basic stuff is evidence of poor build quality and materials. I thought porshe was above such nonsense
Actually, not the case. I am OCD with my 911. The squeaks and rattles were very minor.
Not free lol. You had tons of issues is less than 20k miles. You have to learn and fix it yourself. I don’t wanna take my car apart. You stitched stuff lol! This would have been multiple trips to the shop . Huge time waste and cost
Why are all porsches overpriced?
Not worth the money IMO. I bought a 987.2 Cayman S recently for 30k. Has slightly more miles (86k), but also has 27k in nice mod (the $8500 Soul exhaust and $8000 HRE wheels being the biggest spenders).
It is amazing how many 997.2 part numbers are on this car from the factory. The Cayman may be a little down on power compared to the 911, but also a couple hundred pounds lighter with an engine placed in a better spot. What little benefits you get from a Carrera/Carrera S vs the 20k price difference, absolutely not worth it.
Honestly, for the 50-70k range of a non-turbo 997.2, I'm buying a C7 GS or Z06 without question. If you want back seats, I'd be rocking a ZL1 1LE for that price instead. Maybe a GT350R.
I understand where you are coming from. The 987.2 is a great car. It's definitely easier to drive than a 997. I've driven both and the 997 requires more work to manage the weight distribution while the 987 remains composed. With that being said, the 997 provides a different driving experience that some people prefer.
I don't think the C7 GS and ZL1 are good comparisons with the 997. They are newer cars, significantly faster, and arguably less timeless. The average person buying a NA 997 isn't likely looking for the fastest car for the dollar.
So massive number of reliability issues - rattles and mounts/sensors and doors and cupholders. That is NOT a great car nor is it reliable. I would give this car a C overall. I have had a 996tt and it too had a ton of issues...plus coolant pipes plus vacuum leaks. Your car may actually develop bore scoring given the model and year and such....so warm it up every time.... These cars are fun and such but they are overengineered so when things go bad, they get costly. 99% of folks cannot do the work you do on the car. Your 3500 would have been 12000.... The reason they keep their value is marketing of the image of success. I get it and love 911's...but they are far worse than the hype would have you believe.
Just wait until you lose coolant, and have to replace all the lines which are glued to the side. Ha.
Which engine are you referring to? I don't believe mine has this issue.
Owned a 997.2 gts for 1 year and the only issue was related to the thermostat and coolant system. On the day I was trying to sell the car, it started dumping coolant like an open faucet. $2k later I sold it to the original buyer. Man I miss the sound of that Sharkwerks exhaust.
Omg haha, this car has so many issues. This makes me not want one
Strangely this convinced me to not consider Porsche. Such small stuff should not breaking - this is telling of the manufacturing philosophy
Most cars don't get driven hard like a Porsche on a consistent basis. Also, this car might had been taken apart for mods and repair in the past. I have the same car for six years and the only repair necessary was to replace the air oil separator ( under warranty ). Porsche 911 consistently ranked in the top few spots for build quality
elaibility by JD Powers. And very few cars can give you the analog driving experience of a 997.
I mean, this now a ~15 year old car.
@@ililnine thanks, probably fair at that age
If little things like this keep you away from a great car - you might want to find a good horse!
@@fundamentallybroken4194 just found a good donkey
Simple!! Covid19 !
They are well built cars no doubt. But you won’t be bragging how inexpensive it is IF bore scoring happens to you. 😅
that isn't common on the 997 2 and generally affects cold weather climates more.
Had to have my engine re.built on my 2005 at $30k Oh well
Good win your 997 .2 the 996 .2 and 997 .1 engine are rubbish scrap
Porsches are girlie cars
Porsche's are way overpriced. Over 60K for a four cylinder engine is ridiculous.
Overprice Volkswagen….😂