Munk Debate - Mainstream Media ft. Douglas Murray, Matt Taibbi, Malcolm Gladwell, Michelle Goldberg
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- Опубликовано: 7 дек 2022
- The Munk Debate on the Mainstream Media was held on November 30, 2022. The resolution to be debated was, "Be it resolved, don't trust the mainstream media."
On the PRO side of the debate were Douglas Murray (The Spectator) and Matt Taibbi (TK News on Substack). On the CON side of the debate were Malcolm 'Malc' Gladwell (The New Yorker, Revisionist History) and Michelle Goldberg (The New York Times).
At the beginning of the debate, 48% voted in favour of the resolution, while 52% voted against the resolution. At the end of the debate, 67% voted in favour of the resolution, while 33% voted against it, representing a 39% switch to the PRO side, the biggest switch in Munk history.
Chapters:
0:00 - Montage of past debates
2:26 - Moderator's introduction
7:04 - Preliminary poll
10:05 - Taibbi's opening statement
15:39 - Goldberg's opening statement
21:40 - Murray's opening statement
27:52 - Gladwell's opening statement
34:25 - Taibbi's first rebuttal
36:56 - Goldberg's first rebuttal
40:06 - Murray's first rebuttal
43:17 - Gladwell's first rebuttal
46:41 - Taibbi's second rebuttal
49:45 - Goldberg's second rebuttal
51:55 - Murray's second rebuttal
54:02 - Gladwell's second rebuttal
56:10 - Open discussion
1:22:17 - Gladwell's closing statement
1:24:55 - Murray's closing statement
1:28:12 - Goldberg's closing statement
1:31:49 - Taibbi's closing statement
1:35:01 - Debate results
#MunkDebates #MainstreamMedia #DouglasMurray #MalcolmGladwell 
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As an old fan of Malcolm Gladwell - I am SHOCKED how shallow, petty and illogical he is in real life. Won’t be buying any of his books anymore. Absolutely eye opening!
you should reevaluate his writings in light of this.
I have three of his books. Guy is actually childish
Me too.
I felt the same. I used to have a very different opinion of him.
I stopped a few years ago. Audience capture.
Malcolm gave the perfect talk to show exactly why nobody trusts his media.
Exactly. Thank you!
and couldn't get off the stage fast enough!
@@Dominique_Taylor no pin could pop that ego, if anything it would inflate more to compensate
His lack of self-awareness is truly staggering. The hallmark of someone who is so stuck in his bubble that he forgot how to make a rational and convincing argument or even show bare decency to people on the other side.
@@emboe001
That's exactly what the "knee jerk" reaction of the ego operates on - IN ORDER TO CONTINUE TO LIVE IN HELL- calling it "compassion", "freedom", "liberty", "love" ...... ALL BS
Today's lesson: Douglas Murray is an absolute star and Malcolm Gladwell is not who you might have thought he was.
Amen, bro. Well said.
I think Gladwell is actually a great author - give his books a try if you haven't, I'd recommend Blink.
He's very good at explaining people and human behaviour. However, he didn't do himself any favours in this debate.
I think Gladwell's writing is far better than his oration/debating.
@@John_II Good writer. Bad debater. Lousy human being.
Well said,@@todesque :)
Gladwell demonstrated by his attitude exactly what's wrong with lamestream media... arrogant, condescending, demeaning, disrespectful, agenda driven, uncurious. Glad Douglas took him down from his high horse.
Gladwell has so internalized the idea that, rather than debate an idea, call Matt (of all people) a white supremacist instead... And he didn't even seem ashamed in the moment, which means this is normal behavior at the newyorker
I love how Elon shadow banned Matt Taibi Lol. does Elon hate free speech? or was Matt Taibi lying?
I like that....Lamestream Media. Perfect.
Well said
Murray annihilated him...MG came across as a petty nitwit.
If you run out of rebuttals you can always resort to calling someone a white supremacist and/or conspiracy theorist.
In the early 2000s, I met Malcolm Gladwell at a conference and asked him to sign a copy of The Tipping Point that I had just been given (I already owned a copy). Today, after watching this, I threw it and a couple of his other books in the trash. I'm appalled and as a Canadian embarrassed by his statements.
Really pisses me off how liberals have fallen to such low levels that their only come back is trying to ruin someone’s reputation.
Oy vey media vs dirty goyim media
And misogynist and racist, don’t forget those
@GoodWords1 don't forget that calling Matt a white supremacist wrong because it is completely false.
His ethnicity is irrelevant.
Malcom literally called Matt a racist by proxy 4 times instead of addressing his arguments. Thats a staple mainstream media journalist move now a days.
"Yes the entire country trusted Walter Cronkite and got a mostly straight version of most stories, BUT he wasn't half-black, so there." -Malcolm Gladwell
Exactly true. Malc gave us all a live demonstration of the very basis of and impetus for this debate!
Yep. Instead of showing what is wrong with a claim the media has to discredit alternate voices. It is the only weapon in their arsenal.
And that on top of mispronouncing his name 3x! 🤦♀️
This should be a pinned comment
Malcolm from the rooftops: "My group identity is paramount" Exactly what is wrong with mainstream media is this man. Thanks for backing it up for us.
His name is Malc
@@TKRoGan1 😂 Yeah
Douglas Murray was such a genlteman. He refills Matt's glass of water upon seeing it was empty. Just some small things.
Malcolm Gladwell has failed as an intellectual in this debate.
It's pure sophistry from him.
The problem is, that cretin is never an intellectual at all.
Well that's because he's not an intellectual, journalism doesn't require much academic capacity 😄
I wouldn’t even say sophistry that at least requires clever deceit 😂
Sophistry? You’re using big words so I’m guessing you like 1950’s america and are racist -Malcolm Gladwell
Sophistry, of which is rooted in the Greek word for wisdom "Sophia," would require some intellectual prowess. Gladwell had none. It was both funny and embarrassing for modern society.
Malcolm Gladwell really tore down his entire reputation in a single debate. I cant believe we ever took that guy seriously.
It's kind of shocking, right? I have his books, I've watched him for years -- he wasn't even RESPONDING to casual mean spirited bigotry, he STARTED it. He practically opened with childish condescension.
Sorry, but no mind with critical thinking could have ever taken him serious
“We” is a bit problematic
It shows that the Left really have no facts nor logic to justify their views, they must ALWAYS retreat behind the walls of identity politics hoping that oblique slanders of racism prevent the right wing barbarians from breaking through.
It's funny to me that he posits that the era in which the mainstream media was the most trusted, was the era in which it was the least "representative".
Tell me, should I give a hoot about "representation" when the results of said "representation" are the complete dismantling of the accuracy and trustworthiness of entire news organizations?
"Differences on the same side used to be cherished." - Douglas Murray
Or at least tolerated as a normal fact of life. That was before woke puritanism
@@rexsceleratorum1632 I think your statement is more factual. Generally, we took it for granted that ten people would offer ten differing opinions. We seem to have become much more tribal, which isn't conducive to a calm and peaceful world.
Fact check: Walter Cronkite was an anchorman for the CBS evening news from 1962-1981. I don’t know what he was doing in the 1950s, which is the decade Malcolm Gladwell is referencing.
THANK YOU! This drove me crazy! Malcolm initially stated that Walter Cronkite was anchorman in the 50's and 60's, then dropped it down to "50's" for most of the rest of the debate. I kept waiting for someone to correct him! And he didn't just say this once or twice; he threw out this incorrect information countless times.
He went to 50s cause thr 60s are associated with the Civil rights movement. He had to get in before that, to make his disingenuous and ridiculous point. If you ask Gladwell, he'd probably tell you Cronkite was wearing a Klan hood in the 50s!
Michelle Goldberg literally sat there and said she went to the Ottawa Trucker Protests and found the truckers to be delightful and not racist at all. Yet the name of her article was "The Giddy, Terrifying Siege of Ottawa" and in it she describes the actions of the truckers as "psychological torture" to the citizens of Ottawa. What a clown.
Their ability to lie is clear evidence they are evil. She’s a stupid/smart person, very dangerous when given power, especially when they have no moral code.
I find her hard to listen to. Full of contradictions and largely incoherent noise. She was just as useless during the free speech debate against Jordan Peterson and Stephen Fry.
Clown who supports tyranny is evil
@Eagle-eye-pie, I wonder if Michael Eric Dyson talked to Malc about race baiting.
@@victorsimpson4487 ha ha, Malc doesn’t have the same fluency with word salad, but he definitely gave off “mean old white man” vibes.
Watching Douglas Murray just utterly vaporize Gladwell is the most emotionally gratifying experience i've had in years.
truth
You might need a girlfriend mate.
@@peripheralparadox4218 the sad thing is, i have one. Might need to reevaluate my life!
dogs are better...
@@marcuschauvin7039 that’s illegal.
Diversity woke hires VS real journalists with common sense. 😂 Douglas & Matt, respectful, on topic, prepared. Thank you.
Taibbi never mentions this because he doesn't like identity politics, but he is actually mixed race. His biological mother was mixed Filipino and Hawaiian. The fact that he doesn't is testament to his stance on substance over "representation."
It’s astounding the Malcom Gladwell thinks it’s more important that mainstream media be racially and ethnically diverse, superficial markers, which basically reinforce the divisions in society, than ideologically diverse.
I'm stunned how disgraceful and disingenuous Malcom was in this debate. It was disgusting.
all he sees is race. it's sickening.
He lost all credibility with me. What a joke.
As someone who used to respect his work, I can’t believe what I just saw. As you said, disgusting.
It used to be if All you see is Race, than you are Racist. Well he's part of the 2% white group(By the numbers the most Privileged group as well) and all he does is see Race. In fact this is so common that only people like Ben Shapiro etc stop it from being a continued evidence Stereotype to being 100% Fact. (Course I'm speaking only of the people in the Media. People rarely know what the Commoners actually think(Due to a general lack of giving a shit)
No matter what their profession is, and irrespective of their actual political views and persuasions, I've always found people who slander and deliberately misrepresent others as Malc did are an absolute cancer for society. Humans' ability to listen and discuss is our ultimate mechanism to move forwards and explore truth and thereby provide security in civilisation. How can this man be employed to convey the news to millions of people? It is honestly so disgraceful. However if Malc read my comment, he'd dismiss my criticism as "a person who is made uncomfortable by Malc having different views to my own".
I’ve never seen a debate so totally won by one side in my life. Gladwell and Goldberg showed up to a gun fight with cardboard forks.
*paper straws 😂
"I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but I see you are unarmed"
and those cardboard forks were wet
I also thought of it! Glad to see that! Hahaha
The Douglas Murray Effect
What’s funny is that Douglas Murray was tired and only at 75%. And still disemboweled Gladwell and Goldberg
Oh yes! Goldberg was there as well. Thanks for reminding me, easily forgettable.
that''s exactly what happens when group A cares about the truth and group B cares about winning the argument no matter what. and the audience notices this. Group B was more transparent than it would have liked to be. 😅
Douglas Murray is a gem and should be protected at all costs.
he dosnt need protection
Douglas Murray’s salutation of “Well Malc” was priceless!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Utterly Priceless!!🤣🤣🤣 I've played it like 10 times now!
When Malcolm said “Matt and Doug” you could hear Douglas say, in the background “Douglas” and then he nailed the execution so perfectly when he responded lol
@@jeremeylochridge7911timestamp please.
It was his salutation response to Malcolm's "Well Doug"
Why?
Malcolm is the prime example of why people should never trust the corporate media.
And the woman seems delusional
You mean malc
But he's half black though. So that means you have to trust him more than any white reporter, no matter how many surveys say they're the most trusted man in America.
@@reasonablyserious
Not really, because towards the end she was spot on talking about the "corporatization of the media" I thought that was a great and accurate point, even though I was on the side of not trusting mainstream media.
💯
My respect for Douglas Murray keeps growing every time I hear him speak. Malcolm's arrogance only highlighted Mainstream media's contempt for the TRUTH.
Douglas Murray is the closest thing we have to Christopher Hitchens today and I am beyond thankful that he is out there doing what he is doing. It’s rare that I watch people speaking publicly and am absolutely blown away by their eloquence and rationality. But he manages to impress every single time
Even I think so
Douglas did an absolutely brilliant job of triggering Malcolm so much that he devolved into shallow, emotional insults and therefore surrendered any and all credibility. Douglas is the GOAT, off to buy all of his books tata
Douglas went for a few too many low blows and emotional arguments for my liking.
@@alaron5698 he only did so in response to Malcolm’s barrage of ad hominems and petty BS. And clearly it worked, the ratio at the end was undeniable. He’s way better at it than malcom which is why in my opinion he gets away with it. Malcolm has the personality of a sponge.
@@alaron5698 and I don’t think his arguments were emotional, they were just so well presented they evoked emotion from the audience.
@@yvonnelee4385 That you convince an audience does not necessarily mean you have good arguments. It could simply mean you are a good rhetorician. I'm by no means defending Malcolm, as his accusations of racism were pathetic. I just felt that Douglas sunk to his level a bit too often for my liking. He did so even before Malcolm ever said anything negative. Take, for instance, his first rebuttal remark to Michelle. He was "delighted" that she reported honestly on the trucker convoy in contrast to how she reported dishonestly on Matt's words, as well as how she reported inaccurately on Jordan Peterson's words in the last debate she was in. He opened right up with a mean-spirited jab. You even heard a little "ooh" in the audience. I just didn't expect (or like) such an immediately adverserial demeanor.
Indeed. I thought Malcolm was a decent dude. I lost a lot of respect for him with the way he went about his argument.
To beat Michelle in an idiot contest is truly difficult, but Malc somehow managed it with flying colors. Incredible.
Malcolm at least displayed some level of eloquence in his slander, that lady's response to the idea the media lies was to repeat as truth the same lies they were just referring to then tell an irrelevant story about trans kids. It was mind numbing.
@@nklinef She's repulsive. I don't mind a big-mouthed midwit in the corporate environment, perhaps the marketing department, but I despise it when such people pretend to speak about important topics. Her primary qualification for being any kind of political pundit is that she's oblivious to her own mediocrity and loves attention. Many such cases.
I really don’t know why they keep inviting her.
😂
@@DookyButterothers were busy. 😂
Seeing her takes the fun out of it.
That closing statement from Doug Murray was an absolute knock out.
I'm surprised I missed this one. Douglas Murray and Taibbi dominated with just truth.
Me too, I just found it November 15, 2023. Absolutely riveting. So sorry Malc but my 4 copies of your books are going on ebay.
They're arguing the easier side.
The MSM in Canada is basically funded and bailed out by our federal government and the left-leaning nature of most outlets, including the CBC, confirms it. Look at Trudeau - you could write a book about his failings and the $ billions he blew accomplishing nothing, yet the left-leaning MSM barely touches him or his failings. Meanwhile with Harper (Conservative PM), $90,000 goes missing and it's repaid - and the MSM is all over it like Sen. Duffy and Harper were the biggest crooks in history.
So, you cannot look at Canada's MSM right now - I'll spare the Globe and the Post because they write mostly balanced pieces - and tell me they deserve our trust. They're incentivized to lean one way by left-leaning government to spout their propaganda. That's not a conspiracy, that's what is happening. I shouldn't have to go to the fringes or "independent" media to learn what is actually happening in our country... and yet it's 2024, and I have to do exactly that.
If you could trust the MSM, both scandals would be reported, and given the weight they deserve. Trudeau should not be able to give an interview without answering for his failures, and yet he gets all these softballs and never answers any questions and continues to fund failing papers to run his stories. That's the stuff Putin does. Meanwhile, Harper has been villified by the media and that man actually ran a few surpluses despite the missing $90,000 (which was repaid), but the MSM doesn't give a sh!t about good performance in government or honesty. They care about who pays them - Conservatives pay less than the Liberals.
My point is that Douglas and Matt have only needed to put out the facts to win. Malcolm and Michelle have a harder job because they're on the wrong side of history at the moment. The MSM gave into pandering and the financial incentives of pandering over a decade ago, and we're seeing how bad it really is.
Douglas Murray and Matt Taibbi are like Jordan and Pippen I feel bad for anyone who has to debate them.
Wow I give Taibbi a lot of credit for being the bigger man and shaking the hand of someone who spent the prior 90 minutes insinuating he was a racist.
I don’t know if I could have done that. Calling someone a racist that is clearly not, is a disgusting thing to do.
Taibbi is a class act and one of the few remaining honest journalists
I’m not sure I could have…..
Why not shake his hand .. he's not a sore winner .. matt is very much a man of integrity and humbleness.
yeah, look where the tolerance has brought you, keep shaking your hands
Yesterday I would have said that I love Malcom Gladwell and I really respect him as a journalist and an intellectual. Most of that love and respect went right out the window with his first response. I was really looking forward to hearing him respectfully and intelligently argue his point. I am honestly crushed. He made passive aggressive racist accusations, he avoided almost all of the main points and spent most of his speaking time disrespecting , insulting, and outright attacking Matt and Douglass. I mean, the fact that he tried to create a conspiracy while accusing Matt and Douglass of perpetuating conspiracy theories is just jaw dropping. I am not angry, Malc. I’m just disappointed.
Hahahah MALC 😂😂😂
Why did you respect Malcom in the first place. Guy was a always a gatekeeper stooge
Once you know their Modus Operandi you can't unsee it. Think about all the people in media whom you assume are racist
and listen to what they have to say and make a decision for yourself. The smearing of people and branding them as a xphobe
is an instrument which dissuades the general public of listening to them because they said something and don't have the time nor
the will to investigate every news story you hear. Infact, you should listen even closer to what your proverbial enemy has to say.
This is the left in a nutshell. The second their arguments fail they jump to accusations
@@jsgr5382some episodes of revisionist history are really well researched and show a lot of time was put into getting overlooked and often routine topics presented. I still really respect his work in the podcast space.
I can’t believe I’ve never seen this. As a Canadian who attended the Freedom Convoy (with my husband and children!) I deeply appreciate Douglas Murray. Seeing the way the media lord about normal Canadians like us was shocking, and I’m not easily shocked by the corruption of the media.
Many of us in the US were rooting for you Canadian freedom fighters. You give hope to your country.
It got popular through a populist movement but I informally knew a few of the organisers and quite a few of the larger participant groups and they were, let's say not the most tolerant of people, far right, etc.
the way Michelle made it look like they were all outside gathering just being happy to be out of lockdowns and had no clue why they were gathering but just hanging out doing shrooms and hugging other racist people was hilarious, I laughed so hard. I guess it hit my funnybone in just the right way, proving how msm just twists sht.
@@turntablesrockmyworld9315you can claim to know certain people etc but this wasn't about lock step and all walks of life were there from very northern communities and Sikhs cooking, it was not an angry malicious mob and there is nothing inherently wrong with being conservative or simply anti-progressivism.
It literally doesn't matter anyway for what they did. They literally wrote law and declared ac temporary fascist state to try and stop actually peaceful protests (not to be confused with the American mostly peaceful protests involving actual murders and burning of properties and dumpsters alike and occupation of the CHAZ,CHOP)
@@raguellagrande7344 I know of the organizers and as I said, despite it becoming a movement of "regular" people we'll just say it became nonsensical because the original protest's message was lost. Interestingly, none of you protested Doug Ford and marched on Toronto as they were his mandates, etc. For some bizarre reason it was all rolled into one even though direct responsibility was with Ford. Further, many of the restriction for border crossing (the initial) protest were on the U.S. side not Canadian side.
As a Canadian fighting for our basic right to freedom, THANK YOU Douglas and Matt 🙏
“Moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence…”
Robert Kennedy
Fight the good fight!
Thank goodness for Douglas Murray. He is the voice of reason! We need more people like him.
@ Inge Forman
There are more than enough "Douglas Murray's" out there - even though in "hiding" as THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN is dismantling itself for GOOD!
Normally when there's a debate you can't really say there is a winner or a loser. Now you can't really say that for this debate fully. As far as Malcolm vs Douglas. What Douglas did to him could almost be called bullying. I don't think I've seen someone get so annihilated verbally since Jordan Peterson v Kathy Newman.
My perspective is that Douglas Murray did a good job neutralizing Malcolm’s effort to undermine Murray and Taibbi. Murray also made some great points about the failings of the media, but I think he gave air cover to Matt Taibbi to absolutely dismantle the other sides claim to a sensible argument. I forget the chick’s name, but she really said nothing if substance.
Matt Tiabi, Glen Greenwald, Aaron Mate, Jimmy Dore, so many more just not Brits
@@garrettlink9090
Could not agree more, although in a rather different fashion. I would not call it bullying, as of my understanding it includes malicious intent, which can be completely excluded as per Murray's words AND posture.
"Instead of making baseless accusations you should listen and may be you can learn one thing or two..." (paraphrasing of course)
All "Murray's" and "Taibbi's" HUMAN MINDS look for THE TRUTH and not for VICTORY. Although for the casual onlooker there seems to be no distinction as VICTORY OVER THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN - THE LIAR - is TRUE VICTORY. NOTHING GOES BEYOND TRUTH BUT NOT AS AN OBJECTIVE BUT AS A PATHWAY AND THE OUTCOME - PEACE AND FREEDOM - TAKES CARE OF ITSELF!
As soon as Douglas started talking I imagine Matt felt a sudden sense of relief, knowing he was on the same team as the best player.
Hahahaha I had the same exact impression. First 25mins or so is very slow moving. Douglas speaks for the first time and the entire atmosphere changed. It felt palpable through a phone screen. Douglas was head and shoulders in every way above everyone on that stage.
And I also had the same thought. Matt held his own, but dear god he must have been giddy when he realized he didn’t have to engage the one man army that is Douglas Murray.
Murray single handedly had the best arguments. And, when Malcolm pulled the debate into the mud, had the best attacks. And when the time called for it, had the best jokes and levity. Just all around stellar performance.
I Just watched Jordan Petersons podcast with Matt Taibbi on it where they spoke of this debate (which convinced me to come watch it) and both Matt and Jordan agreed with your sentiment singing Douglas's praises.
Douglas has every "it" factor, guy is a monster of intellect and wit, and just honestly being correct on like every single thing i see him talk about.
Douglas on islam and mass immigration is such a relief to watch and learn
They made a great team. Their styles are very different.
Yoooooooo Douglas Murray is a beast. His point about not needing to get their "story straight" was excellent.
Agreed. It is the difference between someone wanting to listen and learn vs. someone who want to push a narrative.
As a nonUS I have never heard of Matt Taibbi, but now I'll follow him. He's been spot on. He's the kind of people we need also here in EU to restore the faith to the news media.
@alfredzig2035 check out his interview with Joe Rogan. Fascinating.
The smugness of Gladwell is unbearable. Enjoyed watching him be served or force-fed humble pie.
“Well Malc…”.
@@pk1645 Yes, a nice one. Very nice! 😁
He has been making excuses for his failure ever since
@@pk1645hhaha. I love it. Or “Little Malcy”
I used to be a big fan of malc! But sad to see him as who he really is. Even though he’s a renowned author, still playing race cards and pathetic straw men arguments! Calling there names wrong repeatedly after correction was childish.
'A 39% switch to the PRO side, the biggest switch in Munk history' Fabulous debate, 'Malk' lost all credibility by 4 times throwing through the race card at Matt. Douglas Murray rocked
Malcolm has been destroyed to the point of embarrassment… His pathetic attempts to use the race card, his naive egocentric arguments, talking points disconnected from the debate, little social and moral lessons were all shocking beyond believe….
Poor Malcolm, his opening statement is all about himself and WOW, only one mainstream media journalist contacted him to confirm that he was not working from his basement…:: The Trump Russian collusion, the FBI collusion to suppress the Hunter Biden story is so boring that he wants to shoot himself just hearing about it…..
Malcom was embarrassingly bad my god. What was his thing with the race card? Pathetic.
She ain't black
I think he could have made his point more effectively if he studiously avoided the ad hominem and simply suggested that the loss in trust of the media has been because of changing demographics, generalized loss of trust in all sources of authority, and wider sources of information breaking down trust in all media. Newspapers with a slower news cycles used to be the backbone but that's overrun by social media. Speed makes it harder to get all the facts correct (and also we may be putting too much of a halo on the past) but that in his experience more fact checking is going on now than in the past. Then he could have acknowledged the (many) problems with his own work that led him to rely more on fact checkers.
He has a nice guy image not a cut throat and it didn't serve him well to try to play that role.
I don't know if that argument would have won but I think it would done better. And the pro team did something strategic at the beginning (well, Taibbi did) by reframing it as: "we're saying 'don't trust' not that you can't read it." I think that shifted the sense of what the vote was about for many in the audience even before the arguments got started.
Douglas Murray is one of our most prolific speakers and thinkers of the time. BRAVO for your intelligence DougLAS! You make me proud.
Matt Taibbi briefly quotes Walter Cronkite _once_ for about 2 seconds as a trivial intro to a point he's making. Gladwell proceeds to bang on about how Taibbi has a giddy love for 50's racism and Cronkite as a person for about 40 minutes straight in deranged fashion like he hasn't listened to a single word of what was said.
In one fell swoop this man proved exactly why "journalists" like him have completely tarnished the reputation of the media.
The most bizarre twist in that thread is at about 1:18:40 where Michelle Goldberg gets nostalgic about the good ol' days of journalism, which makes Gladwell's earlier comment about "getting their story straight" that much more comical.
Excellent observation!
reminds me of the Munk debate where Michael Eric Dyson fixates on Jordan Peterson being a "Mean, White Man". Akin to then, the audience wasn't swayed by initiating personal attacks.
It's interesting because he intentionally confuses moral correctness with objective correctness, just like untrustworthy does: 'we might be factually wrong, but we are morally correct'.
He wasn't even praising cronkite, it was just a point that trust in mainstream media has decreased over time.
It was such a weird, irrational take.
Never realized what a childish hypocrite Malcom Gladwell is and I have to say it’s very disappointing. I had read all his books and was a podcast listener. No more.
I listened to his podcast and found it to be pretentious and insincere, trying too hard to be "different".
I get the sense he might share the same friends as lord Sam Harris... peace be upon his name
On record, he has expressed a deep love of Trudeau Sr., despite knowing of his love for dictators such as Castro and Mao. I enjoyed his writing for a time. I can't stand him now knowing what I do about his character.
@@ew8311 Don't care what his ideology is, he shouldn't be building strawmen and attacking the debaters for being 1950s racists. His whole argument seems to be that "it could be worse" rather than is the main stream media actually trustworthy. You can be a communist and an authoritarian and still argue that point honestly.
@@madpuppet666 You cannot. That is what being an authoritarian communist involves.
Douglas was so good he persuaded Michelle and she didn't even realize it 😂
I actually noticed that as well. It was almost like she didn't want to do a closing statement.
believe me, it won't last. she'll be back to Trump bashing in 5 minutes.
I heard it was one-sided. I figured it would be based on the players. It is so much worse than that. It was a decimation. Matt and Douglas totally outclassed and demolished Michelle and Malcolm.
Malcolm's brilliant defense of the mainstream media: "Matt Taibbi is racist because he said Americans trusted Walter Kronkite." Brilliant job Malcolm, you've completely outsmarted the opposition with that one!
Sarcasm?
@@FreaksSpeaks has to be no one can legitimately think that lmao.
@@FreaksSpeaks , duh! 😊
The fact that he not only completely twisted what Taibbi said in order to attack him, but repeated the attack 4 separate times, is appalling.
@@Footwearquality These people used to "write" for partisan hack news media without any rebuttal, ot was okay for them. In a debate they have to defend the undefendable against much more learned opponents, they stutter amd call names. They get exposed for what they are.
I was as confused as Tiabbi and Murray when Malc went full woke with his waxing poetic about "people the media ignored 80 years ago." This is the first I've ever seen him in action and he's quite insufferable. His type is the EXACT reason I don't trust the mainstream media. Thank you for confirming my prior beliefs.
if we can't trust media because of 80 years ago - why are we trusting government?
Their whole premise is wrong. They group people by race and gender and that is their problem. What statistics does he have proving that woman, people of color and gay men and women didn’t trust walter Cronkite?
The stats I found are in 1976, while Cronkite was still reporting, 72% of Americans had a great deal/fair amount of trust in mainstream media. That’s about 3/4 people! So plenty of blacks, women and LGBTQ had a ‘great deal’ of trust in mainstream media.
His argument is based off his own faulty victimhood-filled perceptions, not on fact, and reveal a lot about how he feels inside which translates into his defense of clearly biased journalism
Yeah, I was like why are we bringing “that” into this debate? May be he thought if he sounded “woke”, reality will melt into a mess and create rainbow hues 😂 what a disaster.
He was very concerned about the demographics of who made up the media back then. I wonder if he has any problem with who makes up the media now.
What's funny to me is that he doesn't know Taibi is no more white than he is
"But this century, we have different FACTS..." Fabulous quote.
When you hear Douglas Murray say "Not to get too mean, Malcolm...", you know he's about to annihilate the guy.
Never heard of Douglas Murray before, but became a follower as of this debate. Utterly brilliant.
Dude is fantastic. His books are great and I highly recommend them. Particularly relevant to the subtopic of research here: The Strange Death of Europe is exceptionally thorough and well-researched.
He's sublime a gentleman genius.
His books are awesome.
He's quite good, though very broken and blinded on Ukriane. Sam Harris - Trump level broken.
@@Aiphiae Have his book 'the strange death of Europe'
Malcolm gave fewer examples, got both of his opponents' names wrong, and pulled the race card 4 times on Taibbi's favorable opinion of Cronkite.
... Malcolm was half fair to say 1960 media had issues. But then no women or blacks or gays were in power in corps or govt, media couldn't change that by talking to the butler or housewife about politics. There in 1950 was 16 women out of 600 congressman, wow, that's low... Malcolm tried to win the crowd over but he's a bit autistic and blew it, speaking is his worst side ... Media mostly got wrong Gulf War WMD, Gulf War 2 being right after 911 they didn't bomb us, Gulf War 2 being winnable after 10 years, Afghan war being winnable after 1st year we should have left with halfwin, Trump being viable candidate, Trump being Russian spy worth of impeachment to undo election and lead to civil war, Biden laptop. Jesus, on epic issues they get it wrong. War!!!! What if 1 year into WW1 proof came the French started war and planned it to blame Germans who didn't have evil plans, we d distrust media then for killing 100,000 Americans and wasting year in training of 10m soldiers... After I left my 100 man National Guard unit got activated to Iraq... That ruined careers ... War is big miss.... Even now Covid Lockdowns seem in hindsight not a good call, that poor countries like Peru did lockdowns with only 1% over age 80 definitely was wrong decision, so seems stupidity continues. But Media is the best we got, but being ""half liars""" is a fitting label...
Oy vey media vs dirty goyim media
He's weak as it pertains to debates
And when Michelle was waxing nostalgic about a time where local media flourished, no one accused her of being a bigot for wanting to go back to the way things were in the 80's and 90's. No one accused her of wanting to go back to a time where gay people weren't accepted, weren't allowed to get married, and weren't allowed to be openly gay on TV. No one accused her of wanting to go back to a time where trans people were still utterly marginalized and unrecognized. They understood that making an argument that was used to have a system that was superior in many ways, isn't the same as giving a blanket endorsement to everything that happened socially during that era.
@@notnotkevinjohn ... The dirty question is should we have EVER trusted media, its owned by rich 1% men about 50 of them, it is afraid of angering the politicians too much, and the journalists always have been biased. But we need the idea of a wonderful media and wonderful government otherwise people would be Libertarian and not trust much to strangers who probably are corrupt and steal. . . I bet things were so corrupt in 1880 but we all knew that and didn't trust govt to do much. In 2020 roads are like $500 a person a year the rest of $20000 a person pays in taxes is optional, that further $20,000 in taxes requires we think govt and press are honest. . . US revolution set us to be free, but then we needed the draft for Civil War and sent men under control of politicians, and then in 1917 we again had draft cause apparently Germany was mean to Belgium neutrality and for some reason we cared there (but didn't care about borders of Africa, Asia, only Europe is vital so US farmboys forced to travel month and die).... We are a dumb people, it sorta don't make sense much...kk
Gladwell is the living, breathing example of the problem with the mainstream media. SMH.
He is awful 😣
So about that New York Times article “Israeli Strike Kills Hundreds in Hospital…”.
Another point for the Taibbi-Murray team.
Malcom proving why no one trusts the media and not even realizing it. Priceless. Going from 53% to 33% lol, well done Malcom.
This was one of the most intellectually lopsided debates I've ever seen. Douglas and Matt absolutely destroyed them. At least Michelle didn't almost cry this time. Malcolm looked like a foolish hack.
Ya I feel weird having liking almost everything he’s done prior to this now.
Imagine not sussing this mid-wit out ages ago.
@@famousmortimer7933 Imagine flexing on a legitimate sentiment, being shared widely, on a video with 94K views. Congratulations, Morty.
@@genericusername4039 imagine liberals getting uppity about others being snobbish..... lol that's fucking rich.
@@WhopyStompy Was that directed at me? Either way - labelling people who you can know nothing about, with the brain-dead 'liberal' tag - is probably not it, champ.
They even touched on this during the debate. You do you though, Stompy.
"Imagine all the people..."
I don't care how much you think you are correct, NEVER get on a stage with Douglas Murray as your opponent. It's career suicide or, at a minimum, asking for humiliation. He is the best we've got after we lost Hitchens.
You can see Malcom attacking Matt and avoiding Douglas, and Douglas isn’t having it and goes after Malcom relentlessly.
You can almost see "Doug" turning to Matt and whispering: "Don't worry lil bro, I'll take care of the bully. Just talk about your twitter stuff."
Malcolm showed himself to be such a hollow little s--t
@@twelvecatsinatrenchcoatthe reason I came looking for this was because Douglas was talking with Jordan Peterson about how demeaning and blatantly not paying attention Malcom was. He also criticised him calling him Doug instead of Douglas.😮
@@garryrichardson4572 I think I just watched the same video. Freaking algorithms turning us all into cookie cutter people.
@@garryrichardson4572haha same. It was as described too.
I used to have a lot of respect for Gladwell until I saw this debate.
It was surprising to see how willing he was to bully, slander and falsely accuse people who respectfully disagreed with him.
He literally refused to say their names properly, that’s how petty and childish he was acting.
I haven’t really agreed with Malcom much in the past, but I’ve always respected his intellect and his genuine outlook, be it right or wrong…until now. I won’t be purchasing anymore books of his either.
His debate strategy boils down to poorly veiled ad hominem attacks
He did the same in Munk debate against Matt Ridley and Steven Pinker. Gladwell is all show and no substance and he is quickly revealed in these debates.
"Conspiracy theories are where one assumes your opponent speaks in one voice"
Plays the compilation of hundreds of 'independent' news rooms saying exactly the same thing at the same cadence.
The news media, in america especially, are owned by three companies.
Malcom’s debating was equivalent to scoring multiple times in your own goal in sport. He made many great points for the other team. Also, spectacular job Matt and Dug 😂!
Even though I don't share Gladwell's politics, I used to respect him. That's no longer the case. Murray and Taibbi were fantastic.
Having Matt Taibbi and Douglas Murray on the same side of a debate really is bringing a howitzer to a knife fight.
When I saw the title of this debate, I was shocked. Prior to watching, I thought Gladwell either had balls to debate them, or had no idea what he was getting himself into. He was incinerated.
He definitely had no idea what he was getting himself into. He didn’t research his opponents, completely missed the mark on predicting how they would approach the resolution (perhaps because cognitive dissonance kept Malc from wanting to prepare against a legitimately hard to argue-against interpretation of the resolution), and as a result had very poor arguments to make and ultimately lashed out when he realized he had no debate. I’m disappointed. I was just gifted some of Malc’s books and now I don’t think I will be able to read them without questioning the veracity of every word.
Matt and Douglas absolutely killed this debate. They stayed above water by giving a reasonable interpretation of the resolution and gave completely irrefutable examples. It’s almost hard to pat them on the back because of how much it felt like they were just walking the ball into the back of the net.
Truth 🤣
Lol
the right tools in the right hands
I liked Gladwell and have several of his books in my library. Because of Gladwell's hubris towards facts and an agenda-based debate. Gladwell didn't spend time listening he spent time on a response. This debate is making me rethink future books with Gladwell.
Same. Lost all respect.
I’m trying to find a 10 second snippet where Michelle isn’t flat out lying.
Ever find one?
@@ajohndoe17 that's a NOPE.
@@jrbr549 dang, I had such high hopes 😂
Wow I thought I was the only one who saw through it
@@ajohndoe17only in the moments when other people were speaking
Douglas Murray and Matt Taibbi are such brilliant and intellectually honest people. I have great respect for both of them.
I lost all respect for Malcolm after this one. Not that there was much left to lose.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
AMEN.
@@cyclingmaniac6343 Of course you're a cyclist. Can we just send people like you to fight WW3? You wouldn't be laughing then.
@@mr.brenman2132 is that it? 😂
My favorite line. Douglas Murray "Why should we get our story straight? We are from different backgrounds we should not be lock and step"
Thanks for highlighting this. It reveals the liberal's tacet assumption that all people must believe the same in order to work productively together.
Yes!
I call that surface diversity. Under an ultra thin veneer there's total uniformity of ideology. Or as Patton used to say: If everybody's thinking the same, then someone isn't thinking.
Great point. From his opening remarks, Malcom consistently demonstrated what is wrong with the mainstream media today. He reveals that all the media should be in lockstep and pushing the same narrative. Murray could have just given Malcom more time to reinforce their own points.
and then latter they proved Douglas' point when theyre bout to discuss hunter biden's laptop and that woman said she knew theyd be talking bout it and called malcolm earlier to know what to say 😂 which i think clearly not how journalism supposed to work 😂
Douglas Murray is a national treasure.
Malcolm Gladwell and Michelle Goldberg should not be invited to any debate in public because of their incompetency.
I have to disagree, the more the public see of them discussing, the more those two will lose.
And would it make us miss this public humiliation that they both went through? It would be a shame! haha
“Well, Malc…” hahaha 😂
Douglas Murray is an absolute intellectual assassin. He knew what Gladwell was doing with his appallingly immature, petty, and childish slights like referring to him as “Doug,” and, in one phrase, Murray brilliantly parried by actually LISTENING to Gladwell to use his own words against him to take him down, and it was emblematic of the core of Murray’s counter arguments and indeed complete take down of Gladwell’s baseless “points.”
When I heard that, I knew for sure he would demolish him.
@@alebarrera1991 "it was at that moment that Malcom knew... he'd fucked up"
Douglas has fantastic delivery and presentation and is very comfortable as an orator. I wouldn't want to debate him even on something I know he is wrong about even if I had studied for a year just knowing all the facts. Malcolm didn't have that, he was both clearly in the wrong and a far inferior speaker and presenter. Not to mention the cheap debate-bro tricks that he went for. A particularly slimy person with those is Destiny who will just backpedal, hide behind an appeal to authority, change definitions or refuse to come to an agreement on them, and not make a definitive statement but will then try to force a definitive quantification from the opponent.
She says the Trump story wasn't an obsession and then proceeds to recount it and she still doesn't get that it was a hoax. She's still in the matrix. It's unbelievable.
Racist
Lol I can’t believe anyone uses the matrix unironically
@@realranger6297 Obviously it’s not literal, but anyone who believes they know the “truth” about the world and have woken up or some bs is just as clueless as the people they complain about
@@bobbito45654 You must not be red pilled yet 😂
Michelle wears her biases on her sleeve for all to see. And she is oblivious to it.
I trusted the livestreams of the Truckers while the CBC blatently lied. I lost trust BIG TIME
If I had to judge Malcolm Gladwell on this one debate I would be totally comfortable judging him as a bad person.
Yes. He was hissy and slithery. It was astonishing to see him making such vacuous statements with such condescension.
@@realretta that is the sign of incompetence.
Agreed. I can't believe how many people think this dude is something special. He's awful.
@Jaffna Soul
I agree. He came to the debate totally unarmed. I was a little bit embarrassed for him.
Weird how Gladwell and Goldberg are completely disingenuous and dishonest actors. 🤔
Malcom did so poorly no one noticed how bad Michelle was.
TRUTH 👍
I noticed.
It was obvious... But I feel a little bad for her, despite being on the side of the evil empire. I mean, she was up against Mat and Douglas. Sure Mat isn't the most compelling speaker, but Douglas is an intellectual heavyweight who's almost impossible to trip. And she's got Malc for backup.
I feel it's a little unfair.
Last time she was paired with that baiting Dyson douchebag, up against Stephen Fry and Jordan Peterson. You gotta respect someone for at least getting into the ring and she's got the heavyweights of public speaking on two occasions.
😂😂😂
@toddf2348 Michelle? What Michelle?
Was it just me who had the impression that the Gladwell/Goldberg camp was constantly debating whether we should consume mainstream media instead of alternative media? They were not defending media trust, they were just trying (poorly and impolitely) to make a point that one should prefer mainstream media instead of other media... Bizarre how "communication professionals" just did NOT get the theme of the debate.
Good thing Gladwell built his empire before this debate. That was embarrassing
A spectacular wipeout. Douglas is a force to be reckoned with. Kudos to Douglas and Matt for keeping to the topic, giving clear arguments, not falling for cheap distractions and not resorting to strawmen. Can't be said for the other side. Can't believe how childish and incompetent they were.
That is what comes from being indoctrinated. As soon as someone says no, they can't come up with any valid response.
They aren’t journalists capable of debate. They are propagandists with assigned narratives handed down from their political overlords to manipulate public perception. Once they have to answer real questions or debate to defend their position they are lost and fail. Which explains this side’s support of censorship
Exactly. That's why the leftist whingers like James O'brien are afraid of him
If you ever find yourself losing an argument. Just call them a racist the way Malcolm does.
Ad hominem gets more sophisticated the more words are used.
But it’s still a kiddie playground “4 eyes, 4 eyes!” Chant.
Gladwell’s constant ad hominem argument is truly embarrassing for someone who purports to be objective and honest. He comes across as unhinged, ideologically blinded and rude. I’m almost embarrassed to have read some of his books.
Douglas Murray is sharp and always has his shit together. I feel for anybody who tries to come at him in any combative way in a debate.
Poor Malc. Imagine arguing for mainstream media and creating the exact opposite thing you were fighting against...another red pill moment.
I couldn't believe no one picked up on the fact that Malcom, who was supposed to be arguing for trusting the media, pretty early on kicked the feet out from under his own argument by claiming the time that people did trust the media was when you couldn't trust it because it was all white men. I dont know if Malcom knows this, but there are still white men in the MSM.
I’m so glad. We need more mask off moments.
As Stephen Fry said in another Munk Debate, these people are recruiting Sargents for the Right
Douglas Murray won the debate for his team, and Malcolm Gladwell lost it for his team
Douglas and Matt, thank you for your intellect and ethics. We need journalist and leaders such as yourself. Cheers!
Forget mainstream media, I don't trust Malcolm Gladwell. 😅😅😊😊
Matt Taibbi almost falling of his chair with laughter after Douglas delivered his "Well Malc" filled my heart with joy.
Malcolm Gladwell accomplished a true feat: Making Michelle Goldberg look smart by comparison
Damn that’s cold 😂
What a closing statement by Douglas.
Joaquin Phoenix was so good as the moderator that no one even noticed him.
Really this comment deserves more likes.
@@brendan12882 Aww thank you!
Taibbi made numerous salient points and was fair and unbiased in his arguments. Well done Matt and kudos for professionalism in the face of “Malc” who was simply ridiculous.
Goldberg's cognitive dissonance is astounding. She made the case for her opposition. 🤦♀️
I haven't gotten there yet, but she did the same thing during the Fry/Peterson debate in 2018.
She’s not an intellectual.. she is just a crazy blabbering woman from the street - do they have no one else to invite?
sounds like she is related to whoopi.
I've watched her in multiple Munk debates and her position for every single debate can be predicted as such: "Whatever we are here to debate does not exist. I have seen no evidence of it and have no idea what my opponents are referring to."
I just fast forward when she opens her mouth 1:38:09
Could Malcolm possibly do a worse job at representing his opposition?
I used to hold some "mildly left leaning ideals" Malcolm and Michelle have completely cured me.
Hahaha Thank God! “A little” is where it starts, then you end up like these noodle heads and wind up voting for Trudeau! 😅
Two take-a ways from this. First, I NEVER want to be on the opposing side of Douglas Murray in a debate. Second, I ALWAYS want to be on the opposing side of Malcolm Gladwell in a debate.
it is actually really annoying that arguing against points made by Douglas is almost impossible. it is like playing chess, you think you have done a world class move, and he takes your queen
Malcom Gladwell provided a perfect argument as to why the mainstream media has never been trustworthy!!!😂
Another possibility:
Gladwell resides in a dogmatic woke bubble closed so tight, it has squeezed all the common sense from his once sensible brain.
@@MegaJCJC He is the ideal court jester of the elite left.
I don't think it's Malcolm Gladwell's fault. Anyone's a booked loser trying to defend modern mainstream media.
He might be the true genius. He delivers us all to truth. In a gentle view
I think mainstream media USED to be. I recall movies made in the late 50s about Journalists striving to tell accurate stories about people they detested, and trying to stick to the facts, and the difficulties of remaining unbiased even when you reported on someone you detested.
And then somewhere in the late 60s / early 70s the first "narrative" popped, essentially "It's impossible to be unbiased, so why bother". A few years after that, the FCC was convinced to get rid of the fairness doctrine (not a great policy, but still...).
40:19 Thank you for standing up for Jordan Peterson! 👏🏼
Douglas Murray is a force of nature
Douglas Murray proves an intellectual giant.
Douglas absolutely crushed. So thankful for him.
Nice of Malcolm to host his own funeral like this.
lol
"Malcolm, you look like someone who just walked over your grave". Imagine if Douglas Murray had said that.
I genuinely loved Malcom and his content before seeing this as he always seemed to be able to find the nuance and not be captured by ideology. Kinda devastated to see him exposing himself this way with so much rudeness and intellectual dishonesty
Yes.
To those criticizing Matt Taibbi for being a “leftist” and therefore discrediting him, please stop. The fact that he dislikes Donald trump so much that he wrote a book about him, and yet is so dedicated to honest journalism that he now defends him only makes him more credible/less ideological. You don’t have to like him or agree with his views to respect the f out of what he’s done to expose media outlets for prioritizing bias over truth.
It just shows that people don't care about what someone is saying. They don't like Trump therefore he's a leftist.
This is exactly why you have partisan news media.
The Right has gone woke in their own way. Turns out people, on both sides, are way too gullible and impressionable. Rebublicans are not particularly wise.
An absolute masterclass from Murray, as usual.
Whoever “Michelle Goldberg” is, she was Demonstrative Exhibit-A *SUPPORTING* Matt Taibi’s and Douglas Murray’s side. 😂
1:06:28 - Did anyone see Douglas pour Matt a glass of water before himself? True Gentleman.