Thanks! A day earlier, 12 January I pulled the governor weights and attachment parts off a Vanguard cam- a combination on plier and punch work. Maybe I'll post some pictures and a write-up on FB.
Excellent video. I've also got an 18hp Vanguard to swap into one of my tractors. What max RPM would you say is safe to run with the Gov bypassed and still be reliable without worry of grenading the engine? Also, how do you limit the RPMs at a higher limit with the Gov bypassed? Thanks
In this case, the connecting rods are the weak link. Although I haven't done this with a Vanny, I've run other stock engines upwards of 6k on stock components. Engines like the Honda GX, and the Tecumseh H-series. Same deal- no counterbalance stuff. I advise keeping the stock valve springs- they have a tendency to act as a natural rev limiter, as valve float occurs. Once you upgrade the springs, you're getting into billet internals territory. There's no hard "limit" to the RPM when ungoverned. Basically, don't rev the crap out of it with no load (such as in neutral).
I do believe, sir, that Fugazi shall return next year with a bit more attitude... ...And the same sexy exhaust note. Kidding aside, I'm interested to hear what the tone is like with another thousand RPM tacked on.
I'll save you the follow-up video, you're not wrong my friend. Removing all that external stuff, all you need. I've got one that's years (of abuse) old and still runs fine. you can actually 'set governor speed' with your throttle cable or pedal throw if you must.
I wish they all were that cool am working on a coil bracket and linkage system for a clone that uses the governor action to advance ignition timing.. I will make a vid of that some day when/if I ever become confident enough it will work to cut up a block... the coil mount has to pivot about the center of the flywheel to keep the gap consistent I made a slotted coil mount bracket years ago for adjusting and I tried advance with a cable it worked but it couldn't keep a consistent gap.. but yea ik there's potential in the idea my only issue is making a bracket that can fit behind the flywheel and that can mount to the cranky and pivot around its center..
@@NubsWithGuns the slotted coil mount absolutely works to advance the timing and lock it there... It's effectively the same thing as an offset key.. but that can't really be adjusted on the fly (at least not well)
Well well explained video and you are 180% correct that the connecting rods will let loose first and literally obliterate the bottom end of the engine. I have taken apart several Vanguard v twins that were blown up to find the rods let go but the governor stayed intact. Matter of fact thats the only thing on the bottom end that stayed intact. I will have to make a video on my “built” Vanguard that explains how I made it bulletproof darn near.
If you have any reservations , measure the governor travel on the shaft and put in a spacer and or thrust washers which would stop the weights from expanding . And there’s your governor delete !
That could definitely be done. I put a depth guage in, and in this particular case, I have no fear of overtravel though. Thankd for sharing a good idea!
I'll try to keep from writing an essay... lol The reason that lawn and garden equipment, tractors, industrial equipment etc has a governor is to hold a set engine speed through varying loads. It is not a true statement to say that a governor is a rev limiter. It does that too, but that's not the primary job. Imagine you're mowing your lawn with a good old fashioned push mower. The engine is buzzing along, doing a fine job. Then, you walk into a thick patch of grass over the septic bed. All of a sudden, the grass is much longer and thicker, so the load on the engine increases dramatically. The governor responds to the RPM beginning to drop and opens up the throttle blade more, to try to maintain the ideal cutting RPM. Getting out of that patch, the load decreases so the governor closes the throttle down, some. Now, you're walking into the part where the sun has baked the lawn and the grass really didn't grow since last week. With the load severely reduced, the engine would absolutely overspeed- if the governor didn't sense the decreased load and close the throttle down some more. Etc. Throttle position doesn't directly corellate to RPM- load is a big factor. With nothing to control RPM, you could blow a mower engine at 1/4 throttle, if there's no load on it. At the same time, trying to drive your tractor up a steep hill with only 1/4 throttle could even stall it out. So to recap- the governor's job is to try to maintain a selected RPM through varying loads. Hope that helps.
@@DocSprocket for what it’s worth, it was a Briggs v twin 27 hp engine. The sump bolts had rattled loose and the gasket deformed. I pulled the engine and replaced the gasket and bolts with an upgraded version of both. Everything was great for a few hours of mowing. The next mow, after another few hours, it started revving wide open. I pulled the engine again and found the governor weights broken in pieces. Thankfully while I waited for the new parts to arrive, I read a thread that said sometimes the pressed in pin that the governor gear rotates on can pull out if the gear seizes to the pin. The pin was indeed unseated a few millimeters, but still very tight, so I tapped it back in. I assume the oil got low at some point and that’s what happened. I hope this helps someone.
Not that I am aware of, but it's certainly doable. How much you'd get out of it and the material you would need to remove, would be a trial and error thing, I'd think. For most folks, it's adjust the governor up a bit, and ultimately bypass/delete. On MOST of these small engines, I tend not to exceed 4200- because I've seen the effects of the lower quality governors letting loose and causing chaos. This particular system, I would have no fear of that.
This is better accomplished by adding a stiffer spring. It would offer rev limiting, and depending on how stiff the spring is, it will allow it to get to the RPMs that you'd want.
Just opened up a Vanguard 23 because the valves were not moving. Guess what. The cam gear was busted and all of the governor parts were bent and scattered all over the case. So yes, the cam gear and governor do come apart. If I decide to rebuild this engine, I will use an aftermarket cam with a solid gear and no governor. This engine had been installed on a golf cart with only 85 hours on it.
make something in metal that does the lubrication in much the same way that is open to spin the oil to give lubrication ... ...ooh it's all metal can always do something with it to secure da that they don't open or get rid of ....your aluminum crankcase salt should all break then it would fly out against something like that depends on how strong it is .....it's a nice video
you forgot a short clip at the end of the video .. the cam with built in governor might be balanced ,, so if removed could cause a shake .. they do not make the newer engines that good anymore ..
Man this is funny cause I bought a model 303447 from a guy on Facebook marketplace and he has bypassed the governor, and I put the thing on a go kart and had fun running it down the street at 40mph but the piece that the governor weights flings out had jumped it’s alignment peg and had been pushing against the case and finally during a high speed pull it send the end of the camshaft through the side cover ruining not only the cover but the cam, lifters, crank and oil pump gears
Definitely would have to agree with you on this . Doesn't look like it would come apart. Cool video
Thanks! A day earlier, 12 January I pulled the governor weights and attachment parts off a Vanguard cam- a combination on plier and punch work. Maybe I'll post some pictures and a write-up on FB.
Great video.. I happen to have a couple of those. Good to know that!!!! Thank you!!
hey sprocket. got a question for you. in your op how much horse power do you think peerless 820 will take before failing any idea ? Thx.
Is the governor on a 10 hp one cylinder Vanguard the same design as the type you show on the V twin? Thanks.
Excellent video. I've also got an 18hp Vanguard to swap into one of my tractors. What max RPM would you say is safe to run with the Gov bypassed and still be reliable without worry of grenading the engine? Also, how do you limit the RPMs at a higher limit with the Gov bypassed? Thanks
In this case, the connecting rods are the weak link. Although I haven't done this with a Vanny, I've run other stock engines upwards of 6k on stock components. Engines like the Honda GX, and the Tecumseh H-series. Same deal- no counterbalance stuff. I advise keeping the stock valve springs- they have a tendency to act as a natural rev limiter, as valve float occurs. Once you upgrade the springs, you're getting into billet internals territory.
There's no hard "limit" to the RPM when ungoverned. Basically, don't rev the crap out of it with no load (such as in neutral).
I need a vid on the internals of a 21hp intek... I have 2 of them that need rebuilt
From the book of revlimitations,thou who over revs on stock internals shall throw the rods before limiter lol.
Nice video bro good info as always!
I do believe, sir, that Fugazi shall return next year with a bit more attitude...
...And the same sexy exhaust note. Kidding aside, I'm interested to hear what the tone is like with another thousand RPM tacked on.
I'll save you the follow-up video, you're not wrong my friend. Removing all that external stuff, all you need. I've got one that's years (of abuse) old and still runs fine. you can actually 'set governor speed' with your throttle cable or pedal throw if you must.
Thanks for the insight!
Is this style governor similar to a intek vtwin?
I wish they all were that cool am working on a coil bracket and linkage system for a clone that uses the governor action to advance ignition timing.. I will make a vid of that some day when/if I ever become confident enough it will work to cut up a block... the coil mount has to pivot about the center of the flywheel to keep the gap consistent I made a slotted coil mount bracket years ago for adjusting and I tried advance with a cable it worked but it couldn't keep a consistent gap.. but yea ik there's potential in the idea my only issue is making a bracket that can fit behind the flywheel and that can mount to the cranky and pivot around its center..
If you ever get anywhere with that, I'd love to see it. Keep at it!
@@NubsWithGuns the slotted coil mount absolutely works to advance the timing and lock it there... It's effectively the same thing as an offset key.. but that can't really be adjusted on the fly (at least not well)
Well well explained video and you are 180% correct that the connecting rods will let loose first and literally obliterate the bottom end of the engine. I have taken apart several Vanguard v twins that were blown up to find the rods let go but the governor stayed intact. Matter of fact thats the only thing on the bottom end that stayed intact. I will have to make a video on my “built” Vanguard that explains how I made it bulletproof darn near.
What about an after market cam? Do those have the governor parts riveted on?
I genuinely don't know- but I strongly doubt it. There'd be no reason to put them on there.
If you have any reservations , measure the governor travel on the shaft and put in a spacer and or thrust washers which would stop the weights from expanding .
And there’s your governor delete !
That could definitely be done. I put a depth guage in, and in this particular case, I have no fear of overtravel though. Thankd for sharing a good idea!
I have a 16HP vanny cam with the governor removed... also so spare 16HP vanny parts lol
replace the cam, replace the oil pump gear with a billet one, all are available
Can someone please explain why a governor is needed in the first place, and the throttle alone can’t control RPMs?
I'll try to keep from writing an essay... lol
The reason that lawn and garden equipment, tractors, industrial equipment etc has a governor is to hold a set engine speed through varying loads. It is not a true statement to say that a governor is a rev limiter. It does that too, but that's not the primary job.
Imagine you're mowing your lawn with a good old fashioned push mower. The engine is buzzing along, doing a fine job. Then, you walk into a thick patch of grass over the septic bed. All of a sudden, the grass is much longer and thicker, so the load on the engine increases dramatically. The governor responds to the RPM beginning to drop and opens up the throttle blade more, to try to maintain the ideal cutting RPM. Getting out of that patch, the load decreases so the governor closes the throttle down, some. Now, you're walking into the part where the sun has baked the lawn and the grass really didn't grow since last week. With the load severely reduced, the engine would absolutely overspeed- if the governor didn't sense the decreased load and close the throttle down some more. Etc.
Throttle position doesn't directly corellate to RPM- load is a big factor. With nothing to control RPM, you could blow a mower engine at 1/4 throttle, if there's no load on it. At the same time, trying to drive your tractor up a steep hill with only 1/4 throttle could even stall it out.
So to recap- the governor's job is to try to maintain a selected RPM through varying loads. Hope that helps.
Excellent explanation. I had to replace one recently and was ticked, thinking it was overkill. Thanks!
@@Brindle_Boxer You're quite welcome!
@@DocSprocket for what it’s worth, it was a Briggs v twin 27 hp engine. The sump bolts had rattled loose and the gasket deformed. I pulled the engine and replaced the gasket and bolts with an upgraded version of both. Everything was great for a few hours of mowing. The next mow, after another few hours, it started revving wide open. I pulled the engine again and found the governor weights broken in pieces. Thankfully while I waited for the new parts to arrive, I read a thread that said sometimes the pressed in pin that the governor gear rotates on can pull out if the gear seizes to the pin. The pin was indeed unseated a few millimeters, but still very tight, so I tapped it back in. I assume the oil got low at some point and that’s what happened. I hope this helps someone.
Has anybody tried to lighten the weights to get higher governed rpm, if so how much material removed for what rpm? Just an idea.
Not that I am aware of, but it's certainly doable. How much you'd get out of it and the material you would need to remove, would be a trial and error thing, I'd think. For most folks, it's adjust the governor up a bit, and ultimately bypass/delete.
On MOST of these small engines, I tend not to exceed 4200- because I've seen the effects of the lower quality governors letting loose and causing chaos. This particular system, I would have no fear of that.
@@DocSprocket thanks for your reply! I think I am going to find a spare 627cc vanguard and do just that. Hopefully Ill remember to post some results.
@@gregbearman I'd love to hear about it! Good luck!
This is better accomplished by adding a stiffer spring. It would offer rev limiting, and depending on how stiff the spring is, it will allow it to get to the RPMs that you'd want.
Just opened up a Vanguard 23 because the valves were not moving. Guess what. The cam gear was busted and all of the governor parts were bent and scattered all over the case. So yes, the cam gear and governor do come apart. If I decide to rebuild this engine, I will use an aftermarket cam with a solid gear and no governor. This engine had been installed on a golf cart with only 85 hours on it.
I'll be damned. Well, I guess it isn't a perfect world. This IS the first time I've heard of that failure- but there's a first time for everything.
make something in metal that does the lubrication in much the same way that is open to spin the oil to give lubrication ... ...ooh it's all metal can always do something with it to secure da that they don't open or get rid of ....your aluminum crankcase salt should all break then it would fly out against something like that depends on how strong it is .....it's a nice video
It's not a google image. It's a B&S image from the internet.
I used Google to find it....
you forgot a short clip at the end of the video .. the cam with built in governor might be balanced ,, so if removed could cause a shake .. they do not make the newer engines that good anymore ..
I suppose that's possible, I hadn't considered it- I didn't see any evidence of balancing, like holes drilled, milled spots, or weight tacked on.
efi makes a great governor
You are not American? Where abouts are you from?
Just a wee bit north of Toronto, Canada.
Man this is funny cause I bought a model 303447 from a guy on Facebook marketplace and he has bypassed the governor, and I put the thing on a go kart and had fun running it down the street at 40mph but the piece that the governor weights flings out had jumped it’s alignment peg and had been pushing against the case and finally during a high speed pull it send the end of the camshaft through the side cover ruining not only the cover but the cam, lifters, crank and oil pump gears
Go buy a lottery ticket. The odds against that are pretty astronomical!
Nope remove im in there taking broken pieces