Why do Guitar Players INSIST on buying this CRAP?
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- Опубликовано: 21 май 2024
- Guitar Players and are all too happy to drop THOUSANDS on something they might not need. Especially on shiny, glowing glass bottles that really don't make a big difference. Here's real, measuable, repeatable proof. Ignore at your own risk.
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About Spectre Sound Studios:
I'm Glenn Fricker, engineer here at Spectre Sound Studios. I love making records, and after doing it for sixteen years, I want to pass on what I've learned. On my channel you can find tutorials on how to record guitar, bass, real drums and vocals. There's reviews and demos of tube amps, amp sims, drums, mics, preamps, outboard gear, Electric Guitar, Bass Guitar, and plugin effects.
We've covered Moon on the Water, played Bias FX, given you the absolute best in Stupid Musician Texts, ranted & raved about bass guitar, and this channel is where The Eagle has Landed.
Everything you've wanted to learn about recording Hard Rock & Heavy Metal can be found right here on this channel!
I also respond to your comments & questions: The best make it into the SMG Viewer's Comments series of videos. Loads of fun, lots of laughs.
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My $200 guitar strap adds so much tone it's insane!!
Try to change the colours of pots and switch cap, but remember, more black the colour is, darker it sounds
Make it lighter for clean tone
Results might surprise you
All that money is wasted on the tone if you don’t have acoustically-treated strap locks, I’ve heard.
Dude, my strap locks make my tone, fireplace cozy 😀
I bet you're using stock strap buttons though. SMH.
Kids believe in the tooth fairy and guitar players believe in the tube fairy, but kids get money for believing in magic.
Whereas guitar players SPEND (or waste?) their money for believing in magic.
Guitar players get money believing in their playing abilities!
Motion to rename guitar players tube fairies.
@@Clean97gti I second that
@@Clean97gti are solid state players to be called “Staties”
Warmer, Brighter, with notes of Cherry and Sandalwood Are we talking about guitars or wine?
to be fair, beyond a certain price point, the wine tasting stuff becomes equally esoteric
Sandalwood lmao
Definitely with a hint of Mushroom if we're talking about "connoisseur" guitar players.
Has a nutty aftersound
@mgr_1138 I mean there's people who Critique Paintings, but really, they are making shit up , what I see Picasso sucks at painting guitars . 😆
The best thing I ever bought for my guitar was a subscription to this channel... and it was free!
Glenn is back to piss off the internet. Im here for it. Great video as always.
man people have magical ears....I didn't notice any kind of difference and guess what?
Add all this to a mix and spread the music to people who don't give a fuck of what tubes you were using, and yep, you guessed it : nobody gives a fuck.
Just write good music and make sure the mix sounds good. it's all people care about.
Making music for the audience of 1 is the saddest circle jerk .
Keep up the good work Glenn
guitar player: if you want a piece of gear that will drastically affecto your "tone" get an eq pedal you'd be amazed
Bingo !!
NO WAY ! too many buttons and sliders, it's haaaard!
Noooo, that's cheating! You can only change tone with tubes and wood. I'm telling my mom!
That's not good, because that would mean the end of chasing the toan, and then they have to practice and actually play the guitar. That's sacrilegious!
Man is that ever the truth. It literally changes the tone!
Love how every single person that has an argument to your evidence doesn’t have a lick of proof for there’s other than their super human guitar hearing, nothing the back up their claims whether it be tone differences in tubes, pickups, solid body guitars , etc. You’re here helping us make better choices financially and for simple education. And for sure helping us who have at home studios trying to make the best possible track, which people forget that’s the context which you generally aim towards anyway, the final mix!
and in all honesty would superhuman hearing work over the internet? or at minimum would you at least need a certain set of headphones or even monitors at that point the superhuman frequencies
Right?! If they're so on point, why don't they set up their own video to disprove anything Glenn has already taken the time to show us? Negative vibes, I guess?
I see so many comments from people saying "I can definitely hear the difference", but we're supposed to take their word for it. I like this series of videos because we're actually seeing data from actual measurements.
@@Emperor_x8 exactly, and like glen says he usually speaks in the context of a full mix, so how much less are those differences when you got drums, bass, vocals and various other things playing with the guitars? Definitely not gonna be as noticeable for sure
@@maidenthe80sla Yup, those are the people who can’t have their opinions challenged or simple don’t want to have an open mind. Ima be honest before I started watching glen I believed in pickups drastically changes tones or tone wood but after I saw glen disprove that with solid evidence I was happy to have my mind changed!
Glen, I've got your back. Loooong before the internet and RUclips, back in the ancient days of 1987 through 1997, I was throwing together Frankensteined guitars, amps and cabinets. Couldnt afford to buy. Had to build and collect parts.
Along with gigging in dive bars, I fancied myself an amateur engineer and producer.
Didnt know my ass from a hole in the ground. But I tinkered and listened until I got results.
Every hot shot band, engineer, producer and studio in town would laugh at my thoughts and theories about the very theories expressed and proven on this page by Glen.
Until one day I started receiving a shit ton of phone calls. My demos started making the rounds.
How did you get this tone? How did you get the bass to sound soooooo good? Etc.
And once again I had to explain, the low budget, frankensteined guitars, amps, cabinets, and speakers. Had to explain how I mic'd the amps, distance, angles, etc.
Suffice to say I ended up getting a shit ton of demo work because I was blowing away the big studios who were charging an arm and a leg for their services, with shitty results.
I'm a guitar player, bass player and drummer, for over 40 years. And Glen is correct, musicians are FUCKING STUPID! No matter how much proof they see and hear, they still need to disagree and argue.
Nuno or EVH can spend decades tone chasing, and writing articles about that process.
But! Ever notice they still sound the same album after album, despite the tone chasing? Despite different pickups, guitars, amps?
Cause it is all bullshit.
I've literally used the exact same setup for 40 years while demoing dozens of bands. Their hands bring their tone. Or maybe I'll change a speaker or mic configuration.
Ive said it a million times....FIND THE PICKUP, AMP AND SPEAKER THAT BEST BRINGS OUT YOUR TONE. STOP CHASING SOMEONE ELSE'S TONE. BE THE BEST YOU, YOU CAN BE. THE DIFFERENCES YOU THINK YOU HEAR, ARE FUCKING BULLSHIT!
I've had 100s of comments over the decades about my sound. On recordings and especially live gigs. People cant believe how simple setup is. I found the best settings and gear to bring the best out of my OWN tone.
That's what she said.
So to summerise:
There IS a sound difference between the two tubes,
BUT
a) it's a TINY difference
b) the vast majority couldn't identify which is which without a visual indicator
c) the difference disappears as soon as you introduce other instruments into the mix
d) consequently it's absolutely not worth worrying about at all
Perfect summary of the video here.
I could hear a distinct difference on everything except the crunch tone, I was completely guessing on that one. Just a slight difference in the really high end.
@@nunninkav bullshit
Completely wrong on point D, all the small differences add up.
@@sqlb3rn I don't think it matters, because when you're mixing, you're most likely to cut down the bass and treble frequencies where the difference was the most.
It'd be insane to preserve way less significant frequencies in guitar to 'potentially' kill the clarity of bass, kick, cymbals or such.
Correct, tubes do not really matter except some new production tubes have high initial failure rates. I have 82 year old tubes that test and perform as new and have had customer provided new tubes fail.
Sounds like a reasonable observation. A rarity on the internet!
why do new tubes fail more than old tubes? Because the old tubes that were prone to fail early failed before you were born.
@@Chango_Malo It's well known in the industry as the "bathtub curve" - not only for tubes.
@@Chango_Malo New old stock tubes exist and do not have an expiration date so how could those tubes fail before I was born? Call JJ and ask them why they have a high initial failure rate and stop posting dumb shit online.
Honestly with the way the prices are, you can get so many new tubes for the price of a single NOS one that even with a high initial failure rate you're still going to save money.
I still can't tell the differences between the tubes.
the only glass tubes I have these days have green stuff going in one end and smoke coming out the other
Should try listening to music after inhalation of Nepalese Templeball!
Man, I heard notes on JJ Cale cd’s I had never heard before!
Though sadly be far too fu*ked to even consider playing an instrument (not even drums or bass), far too much coordination needed to do that! 😵💫🤣
There's another good reason not to swap 6L6s out for EL34s - the latter draw twice the heater current, and if your amp's not designed for it...well, you're gonna burn up something critical in your power transformer.
However, for the contrary argument...there's a good reason to swap out for older NOS power valves - longevity, mainly because modern valves are utter shit in terms of QA compared with those of yesteryear. Nobody wants the expense of getting a tech to rebias their amp (or risking death trying it themselves) too often, so getting older and better quality glass bottles can actually be really useful. You don't have to go back as far as the 60s, though. Even ones from the 80s and 90s are still significantly better than today's - if you're gigging regularly, and you drive them hard, then you can expect 6-12 months out of a set of modern ones (at least, that's my experience). With similar ones from 30+ years ago, I've had a good couple of years before they died on me.
Hey, it sounds like you’re trying to be reasonable on the internet! That’s Sooooo 1998!
@@SpectreSoundStudios Excuse me sir this is a ~~Wendy's~~ Logic Free Zone
I have decade old JJs in my amps, so this has not been my experience.
I get a 10bd difference switching my guitar from my right leg to left. Great stuff Glenn. Keep it up.
Thank you for these tests! Love the data!
As a suggestion for a swappable power tube head, the Jet City Picovalve has one tube slot that can fit any power tube IIRC. I have various power tubes that I keep on-hand should I need one, but just keep a stock of whatever's on sale.
Keep up the great work, you crazy Canuck!
I've learned SO MUCH through your channel! Thank you!
Glenn, love the content and all the information. Rock on!
I love watching (and listening) to these types of tests. Thanks for making them Glen!
Glenn, thank you for these videos. You and guys like Jim Lill and a few other have opened my eyes about things like swapping tubes, guitar pickups (unless you go single coil to humbucker), tone wood and hell even amps. If you buy a Marshall style amp chances are it’s pretty much going to sound like the 150 other Marshall style clones just like it. Keep up the good work! 🤘
Not what I expected either. Thanks for the video, Glenn!
Another great episode! Bring on that valveking soldano shootout! You mentioned that a while back and i think it would be hilarious and probably make some heads explode!
Thanks for doing this test! All I ever hear from marketing is how those two tubes vary, but I couldn’t notice anything extremely different like they always say. And the frequency graph just proved I wasn’t crazy after all lol. Thanks Glen!
It continues to amaze me how people just can’t/won’t admit that they are wrong and will keep doubling down on stupid. Glen, you and Jim Lill are really doing musicians such a great service and I’m truly grateful.
Love these videos. I was thinking about how different volume levels in the master might see a difference in the graphed output, as the datasheets for each tube suggest changes at high and low volumes. But then I voided my own argument as glen is probably using the amps at a level that is ideal for for speaker and microphones, so then there wouldn't even be a point in a high and low volume test.
Glen I would love a video looking into high and low gain 12ax7 tubes used in preamps. I hear people talking about this making the most difference.
Also swapping the power tubes is interesting. I've only ever done it when they need replacing. Thus, they probably weren't sounding that good anyways so any change was an improvement. My hypothesis is this is where the idea of some tubes sounding better comes from.
Great stuff, Glenn. Let the great debunkathon continue.
As an Indie guitarist, I hear similar crap about all sorts of stuff. Keep it going.
What's an indie guitarist? As apposed to a corporate guitarist? Unsigned? Unlabeled? Canned? Pickled? Or just nobody will play with you?
@@Mr.Unacceptable maybe style of play or music? I expect you can work it out if you put the bass down for a while. 😀
@@ghostofpanama622 🤣
Dude kudos to you for keeping up the good fight, doing what you do for benefit of people who obviously have their preconceived notions and minds made up. Not sure I’d have the patience, but for the rest of us that appreciate it…THANK YOU and keep up the good work.
Great test and interesting results. The graphs speak pretty clearly for themselves. Thank you for using the scientific method.
I wish i had watched this when i was still playing electric guitar (I switched to bass about a year ago - lol). I spent hours looking at amp specs, fretting over output tubes, instead of playing! Never again. Rad video Glenn
I love your testing and debungking videos. Gives you a good heads-up what bullshit to look out for. Now I can give the tube-debate a rest for myself at least :)
GLENNNNNN your last Frick IR pack is even better than your previous V30 IRs which were already insane! Thank you so much for sharing, I'm finally getting a GOOD toneshift WITHOUT swapping pickups or dumping bones in some fancy amp loaded with "superior" tubes... How strange 😏
Very good performing the measurements.
That’s the right way to show and verify a result.
Do that for all tests you perform and it will be awesome.
Eg pickups etc
I'm not even a metal guitar player but I've learned a hell of a lot from your channel. Love it. One minor gripe I have though is you don't shout enough. I like it when you get angry and shout.
I'm having a diamond encrusted plectrum made, only $1000 . That'll not only improve my sound, but my playing too. Win, win.
I got almost all of my guesses wrong. I feel like I could hear a difference between the clips but I doubt I could ever get to where I could consistently identify which tube is which. I love blind tests lol.
Thanks for making these vids! I can’t wait to be wrong in the next test 😂.
As a rookie guitar player I love your videos, Glenn. Been following your channel for a long time now.
Procrastination over tone reminds me of what Stephen Sondheim said about using Blackwing 602 pencils to note down his scores "I use these pencils because they are very soft, which means you have to sharpen them a lot....... and sharpening pencils is a lot easier than than composing"
This is very interesting because I am designing an amp with my wizard and was going to go with 6L6/KT88's due to the belief that they had more low end, but we will probably just stick with EL34's if the difference is that small.
Thanks for the perfect timing with this video!
A very good and informative channel to watch about guitar tone is Jim Lill. He conducts proper experiments to find out exactly what affects the tone and characteristics of guitars, amps, microphones, etc. One of my favourite videos of his which you should really check out is his video about where tone comes from in guitar amplifiers. While there's a big difference in genre, I believe the results he finds will be applicable across all genres including hard rock and metal. At the end of his video, he showcases an amazing amplifier build that he made on the cheap, that perfectly mimics the sound of ultra expensive and desirable amplifiers, and essentially brings the entire amplifier industry to its knees.
Fascinating stuff - I noticed this was focused on power amp tubes, any plans/thoughts on looking at preamp tubes?
Great video, another amp thats not Mesa that allows 6L6/EL34 swaps is the 60w Laney Black Country. I purchased one last year from Sweetwater, awesome amp.
Thanks Glenn! Awesome as usual
Now you showed us the measurements, I can actually hear that the 6L6 are MUCH brighter than the EL34, but somehow I couldn't hear that difference before. I heard something in the low end, but this huge high end difference went over my head. Tells you more about people than about the actual sounds.
You can FEEL the low end of the 6l6. Play the high gain solo and HOLD a blue tooth speaker. You'll feel the rumble.
Awesome video! Thank you! Do you have any tips and tricks for record an acoustic guitar and vocal at the same time? 1 person playing and singing.
Thanks for another entertaining video. A few years ago I got a Supro Royal Reverb. I hadn't been totally loving the tone recently, but one day the power fuse blew and I had to get new tubes. I don''t think it makes any sense to bash the sovteks that were in it, because they had seen their day and there's no way to compare them anyway because they no longer function. I am with you on the subtleties that some people somehow elevate to significant status, however, new tubes in a "tired" older amp can really make a huge difference. I live just south of Ruby Tubes offices/warehouse and so when I was up in Petaluma, I stopped by. Nice folks and they tested the old tubes to ensure that was the problem. They even let me bring my dog in and gave me a locals discount- I think I got Ruby's label tubes which they pre-test. Wow what an intense difference. I have no interest in "rolling " tubes to split hairs, I'm just psyched that fresh tubes, even jj's or ruby's make a night and day difference over tubes that ceased functioning!
Great content Glenn. Can we get a video of tone comparison with different guitar pickups? My education on tone when it comes to different pickups such as single coil vs humbucker is non existent. Would love to learn more.
My favorite tube is the one behind a good speaker!
I only change tubes when they are burnt out and won't glow anymore. Tubes last much longer than people think. I guess that's part of the reason for valve prices jumping so much in the last few years. Great video and thanks for your leg work to show the owners of those Superman ears what's really what!
Thanks Glen. I'm surprised people said they can hear a dif with cleans... I mentioned on your last video about how you can only slightly hear a difference with distortion, and would be hard to hear in a mix. And yes I noticed this on a Mesa dual rec.
The differences were "obviouse" to me, except the crunch tone. Basically guessing on that one, I hear more high end on B so I guessed 6l6, looking at the graph that is what I hear, nearly identical.
Wow this zombie joke was wild, you 100% got me 😂
Keep up Glen we love you ❤
Hi Glenn, love your content, love it when you get into the science of sound.
I am an Ampeg guy and play through a VL 503 designed by Lee Jackson. It uses both EL 34s or 6L6s and is easy to swap and bias. I’ve never taken the time to really test them myself, but I’ve been told that the EL 34 sounds slightly more scooped. If I’m understanding your test of the Mesa correctly. It sounds like it’s more a matter of the low end and high-end both being bumped rather than the mids being pulled down. If I lived closer, I’d happily loan it to you but it’s just too damn heavy to ship I’d love to know if it replicates your results With the Mesa.
The only reason I’ve ever considered swapping the tubes is that lowers the wattage on the amp, and as an aging bedroom rocker I don’t exactly need all the power.
Please keep doing what you do I love being informed and you do it in an entertaining way.
Cheers from Philadelphia
Glen!!!!!
The Egnater Rebel series had the option to switch and blend 6l6 or 6v6 vs el84/34 (depends on the size) from years ago
That’s when I first realized - recording them at home.
Interesting test platform potentially for the channel.
Great video man. Yup there is a little difference in the EL34 and 6L6, putting them in the mix with a dual rectifier amp and switching between them, you probably won't hear it either. What does make the most difference are the preamp tubes, tone circuit, cabinet and speaker. Then of course the kind of pickups on the guitar makes a difference,
then Joe Slash Darell shows up with pedals to put in the chain and screws the amps original tone up because most effects companies have their own proprietary tone when activated. So bottom line is if you want a tube amp then go try them out and decide which one that you want and not worry about the tubes until they go bad then replace them with a matched set. Myself, I play through a 2023 Peavey Classic 30 and use a Boss GT-1 effects unit, guitars vary and so do the pickups, it's just according which one I feel like playing. Enough said lol. Keep the videos coming, I like the truth.
2:38 That scale finished off with that chord was absolutely beautiful!
Love how the power of suggestion can make people believe most things. There is a great test to show this, the unscented candle test. you mention to a group of people that the candles they are smelling could either be vanilla or sandalwood, you got most of the participants smelling one of the other, you get one or two that don't smell anything. But once they hear others smell something they do too, to the point they are convinced the candle smells, even if they thought there was none to begin with.
Thanks to you, I saved a lot of money and still managed to get the best tone I ever had. I was looking for a brand new amp. A coworker recommended Tonex and a lot of watching your videos. I bought Tonex, and it's impressive how close to the amp you can get. I was still not satisfied with the tone I had. I finally listen to your advices and bought good qualities IR. First of all, it's cheap. For less than 50 euros you can get a very nicely captured cab with a lot of options (different mics mostly). And I'm not even talking about any brand or website because there are plenty of them doing great stuff !
Now I have a real tone that fits my needs, that sounds great on the mix and that I can cary on stage. The real point I haven't seen on this channel is how important it is to get the cleanest input possible. Maybe I missed the video, but you should really talk about gain structure and how neglecting your input level in the audio interface ruins the whole chain of whatever you're using, and how adding too much gain afterward will not help the sound become more violent, but just more muddy and less percussive.
Again, thanks a lot for helping me building a real nice tone and focus on what matters. I can relate that I'm way more productive for my tone when I spend 1h on chosing the right cab than spending 1 week chosing an amp.
Always fun shows here !
I would love to see a bugera infinium amp tested since you can mix and match el34 and 6l6 power tubes, I wonder what kind of results we‘d see. Great stuff!
If I'm not mistaken the reason for the shift in tone from power amp tubes comes from the difference in output- specifically in how it effects the feedback circuit
Hey there Glenn love the videos as always. I think I have found two bassist’s that would do well if you’re interested doing the same tests as guitar test. First one is Ian Martin Alison. Second is Janek Gwizdala. Ian is from Scott’s Bass Lessons and Janek has his own channel. I think you’ll like them. Keep up the great work. Cheers from New Mexico USA.
It would be interesting to see this type of test on mic preamps or studio compressors.
I love this content Glenn, though I am zero experienced in capturing sound except to record a riff or chord progression on my cell (my version of writing) Maybe our dogs would be better judges of the subtle/minute differences in the the frequency responses from one tube to the next!
Nice graphs🙌🏻
Hey Glenn. Another amp to try this power tube swap is a Carvin X-100b. Not a really high gain amp but is a fantastic at taking pedals.
I have a few Diezel amps in my collection (VH4, Herbert, and Einstein).. all 3 of them will accept 6L6, EL34, KT77, 6550, 5881, KT66 & KT88. The amps require biasing with any swap of tube type, but will technically work with all of the listed varieties. I think they can also use mixes (like a pair of 6L6 and a pair of EL34 together) as long as they are in pairs and distributed correctly.
That said, I don't tend to chase frequency-response differences by tube swapping. Most (all?) of those feel like they can be compensated for with EQ moves.
I do, however, tend to find EL34s give me an easier time when I'm after high-gain with less fizzy white-noise junk to get rid of.
It's not a massive difference, but it feels like a little less work to contend with.
A few amps come to mind that accept different octal based tubes:
- Pretty much any Diezel (EL34, KT77, 6CA7, 6L6, 5881)
- Laneys Ironheart, VH100R and I think GH series (EL34 & 6L6 types)
- Randall RM100 (same as the Diezels but also 6550 & KT88)
- Lichtlaerm Audios Prometheus (same as RM100)
- I believe the Driftwood Purple and Darkest Nightmare acceot any octal based power tubes too
- Some KSRs. I know that the PA50 takes EL34 and 6L6 based tubes.
The only two potential issues I see with using a Rectifier is that it doesn't have an adjustable bias and its negative feedback design. Bias could be a paramter affecting the response as is negative feedback. Steven Fryette mentioned on one Malcontents episode that different power tubes respond differently to negative feedback. I am paraphrasing here so don't quote me on that part. I do appreciate you improving your testin methodology though even if the aforementioned parameters could not be considered. That being said, I don't expect them to alter the results in a meaningful way either. The differences will likely still be in the nuance area. Good job!
beautiful video as always... for a amp test with both kind of tube, how about the victory kraken 100 or super sheriff? BTW I feel the difference when im playing in my room between when Im in the studio THATS BECAUSE THE SPEAKER IS MOVING WHEN YOU CAN KRANK THE SHIT OUT OF ANY TUBE AMPS (sorry for my English)
The ability to swap output tubes is what I love about my weird little THD Univalve head. I've tried all sorts of tubes in the same circuit/guitar/speaker/cable. The biggest difference in tone was the EL84. That thing just has a weird flangey sort of sound to it. The rest? I mostly settled on 6K6s because they give a nice distortion without being super-loud when I crank the Uni up. Otherwise, the differences were subtle to the point where I'd have a hard time telling what's what. That said, it was still fun to try them all out.
Hey Glen, have you tested the Mojotone Greyhound speaker? I have the Greyhound and the BV. I'd like to hear your opinion on the Greyhound.
I wasted so much time and money in the 2000’s with tube preamps. I must have tried 10 different types of tubes and couldn’t hear the difference in tone that the person who sold me the preamp said there would be. At that time I started to tell myself that it must be just me and that my ears just aren’t the type that would be able to tell the difference in tone between tubes…. Despite being a devout student of music pretty much my whole life and successfully recording multiple demos and tracks of all kind of different music genres. Years later and through watching videos like these I realize what I should have all along, my ears are fine and I was a sucker for a good sales pitch. Thanks for the video Glenn. As always, your no-nonsense approach to a lot of these tone myths is refreshing.
Love this vid, Sadly I went through this year's ago on my 5150, & after finding out the mostly scam, I just settled on the loudest tunes. Lmao😂. PREAMP was a bit different story, but not by much, going from ecc83 to 12ax7 with better & noisier gain with the 12ax7's. So in the end I just got a fresh noisy loud 5150 that thankfully does what it's supposed to 😂😂😂 Keep kicking ass, I love the spectrum you create, it's really cool to see the frequencies on display.
Justin, whoever he is, just lost ALL of his street credit. Glenn, I love how you break all stigmas and fairytales around guitar gear, that's a big service to musicians!
The Mesa Road King has switchable power tubes, in that it has both kinds installed at the same time, there's a large tone shift on that amp, but I'm guessing there's also a large circuit shift that isn't just the tubes... 🤣
Lol 😂 love it Glenn! 😂😂 Keep up the good work brother!
Great video!
Why do guitar players insist on buying this crap?
Marketing.
Good episode Glenn. Nice work.
There is something in us as musicians (I'm also a keyboard player and we're just as bad as guitarist) that drive us to chase this unachievable ideal and gear is the proxy for it. It also means that we can blame our shortcomings on the tools we use, rather than a lack of practice.
Hi Glenn, I changed my Peavey JSX speakers to 2022 V30 and sounds killer!! I can't thank you enough for your suggestions. Out of that this amp came with 6L6s but is originally designed for EL34s. If possible you could do the tube test with any Peavey JSX since they are tube swapable by design with a switch.
I won't do it because I like how the amp sounds so I'll just stick to what it has now
Ive done lots of work with signal analysis (not for music, but for communications) and I like using the Sprectrum Analysis for a visual representation. As a control, could you do the same test with something that has significant audible difference, such as using the bridge pickup then the neck pickup? This gives a frame of reference so that people who may not understand the impact of a few hz and a few db
For me it's not so much as a real tone difference but texture in the gain and a bit on the tone where if you have the ability to actually crank your amp without a power soak and going deaf there is a bit of low end difference that can be heard if you listen hard and close enough in person not on recording so much, at least in my expirience anyway. Love your videos keep rocking Glenn
Hi Glenn,
very cool video and what a surprise! I really did not expect those tubes to be that different from each other. Wow!
But then I also couldn't hear any differences between them. Either my ears are somehow broken or the differences were like every guitar player's junk. Extremely small. :)
And sure enough, you have given those morons a valid argument that tubes significantly change the tone. Now they will never shut up about it... :)
On a more serious side: great work, Glenn, and keep it up!
Thanks!
I can say, without a doubt, I am not the best at determining subtle differences. Trying to determine the difference between A and A flat, for instance. I have to hear it multiple times before it is evident. I’ve listened to these recordings you did for this multiple times and there is no discernible difference. It’s almost like the egos of some people are preventing them from making a rational decision. Love this channel and the content.🤘🏻❤️🎶
An amp I used to own and play, every night on stage that had swappable tube bias was my Peavey Ultra 3 AKA XXX. This was my work horse for many years. Always reliable and always just worked. You could swap between 6l6 and el34 with a switch, you just had to rebias the voltages for whatever tube you wanted to use. When you let the amp breathe (it's 120 watts, letting it breathe hurts a little) you could feel and hear differences between the tube types. Both sound amazing in the amp. There are different tube characteristics between the tubes. The 6l6's is more reliable and not as sensitive to biasing changes as the el34's. The Peavey is a raw amp. No silly effects, just power and tube saturation. The only thing in the amp circuit is a gate. That's it. Just pure guitar bliss. It will fill any room with goodness and cut through at any volume.
I can tell (most) pickups apart in A-B recordings. I refer to pickups that actually do sound different, like the SD Dimebucker compared to EMG's for example. But the difference in tone between tubes is to my hearing non-existing. If someone can hear a difference in these clips, they actually do have super hearing.
For those that want a test with a different amp, while there's very few that offer swappable tubes as a built in feature, there are certain models of amps that you can order with different power tubes (so theoretically the same circuit, but the power tube type is hardwired in when you order it). So for example, you could order a 20th anniversary Bogner Ecstasy with either 6L6 or EL34s (I have one with EL34s tucked away in a moving box as my studio is inoperative at the moment). Now I did get to try both before I made my purchase, BUT it was a long time ago and it was hardly scientific (as in I was able to borrow the Bogner loaners from their factory in Los Angeles when I lived there and play them for about a week each). I only remember concluding that I liked the EL34s better as they had more "bite" to them? But I wouldn't hold that as conclusive in any way 🤪
Anyways, I'm guessing there are other amp makers out there that probably offer a similar option in that you can order the amp with your choice of power tubes? Another option is to find an Egnater amp from a decade ago as I believe they offered the ability to swap tubes like the Mesa.
Wow. A “measurable” difference. I work with audio in film, not music but I took Glenn’s mixing for metal courses when I was starting out and the skills transfer over so thank you for your courses Glenn. After thousands of hours honing my hearing, I still struggle to notice a 1dB difference in a blind test. Clients can seldom tell a difference either. 1dB is a difference you make to meet loudness specs, not an artistic change. I’m also a bassist, so maybe I’m just dumb :)
Well, when I changed the power tubes in my Fender Hot Rod Deluxe I immediately heard a difference the moment I was bending the strings. The Tung-sol's I got sounded what I would call "glassy". The notes in the higher region/frequencies sounded way more pleasant.
This is why I love my Infinium series Bugera 333XL, I can swap tubes whenever I want, no biasing, and I can throw any tube with any span of life in it. It quickly dispels those "TOOBZ MATTER BRO!" arguments when there's virtually no shift in tone from tube to tube. Plus three channels, because fuck you Peavey, I'm not paying for a JSX! I scored mine for 250 bucks.
Have fun with the Bugera as soon as the random channel switching is happening due to false currents coming from the DSP board (source: I have 4 Bugeras, which every one of those amps had this issue sooner or later) ;-)
But yeah, they are great bang for the buck while they work. However, the Infinium technology is total bullcrap, because it automatically biases the tubes STONE COLD. I hate the fact that I cannot bias them super hot, because biasing does make a big difference.
@@PippPriss I've owned several, infinium, non infinium, etc, never had an issue. There's always someone who complains super loud about them being unreliable, but in my experience I've never had an issue, and that's with multiple amps over a long period of time. I've owned 5, 6262, 333XL, Trirec, and the combo, I've owned two 333XL's. I only sold the first 333XL because my friend really wanted it and offered 100 bucks more than what I paid for it. He still has it and uses it all the time and I bought that used all the way back in 2012. 12 years, no issues, same tubes even. Mines from 2018, used as my main amp, no issues.
I have heard of the pre Infiniums having issues with transformers, which they fixed and added the infinium technology. I'd say any issues they've had with previous models have been worked out.
As far as the biasing goes, you can adjust that. It's not easy, and I don't fuck with it that hard, but from my amp tech's mouth it's possible. It's not advised because it basically defeats the purpose of the infinium technology and leaves room for tubes getting way too hot if you change them, but if you like the tubes you have and want to dial them in, you absolutely can. They're not designed to push the tubes hard because that's what was causing the transformer issues before.
I bought my JSX for 400dlls, if you like your Bugera thats awesome! I like my peavey so both of us did amazing purchases
I bought my first JSX for 500 bucks. You just gotta look.
I've had a 6262 for 5-6 years now and the only issue I've ever had with it is the neighbors complaining about the volume lol.
I did just replace my tubes in my JCM800 because the tubes were 20 years old and worn out. I did spring for the Golden Lion matched tube set for $600 mostly because I wanted them to last another 20 years. I did notice a slight shift in sound, but I think has more to do with the age of the tubes than the tubes themselves.
If you can get your hands on one then a THD Univalve would be a great test bed for tube swapping since it can accept pretty much any tube you can throw at it.
I am wondering if you test a few tubes of the same type in the way you did here, will the difference be equal or even bigger? (especially because the tolerances in older manufacturoring techniques specs were larger)
Hi glenn. In case of dual rectifier is it relevant to swap tubes if we swap speakers or even invest in another tube amp (hi gain ones)? Seems to be minor change in tone isn it? Cheers from France 🤘
This was a cool test! At the end when you showed the major differences up around the 12k+ area - I feel this is what people say are "what they hear the difference on" (eye roll). I personally tend to roll off the highs around that area anyway (just my personal taste) so I don't even notice it. Wonder if those with "super power hearing" realize this.
The thing is you cant just use a tone pot to balance it. You would need a digital programmable EQ where you could draw the graph.
@@nunninkav you’re right, but remember Glenn is speaking in the perspective of a recording engineer, not necessarily live performance where you don’t have those options. However, I don’t think live on stage you’re going to notice that much of a difference when you’re blasting it in a metal show.
Glenn, is it possible that the MESA has some sort of filters on the different tube circuits to make swapping a time worthy experience for the amp user?
It would be interesting to do a test where there’s a tube amp power section compared to bypassing the tube power section and running it through a solid state power amp like the SD powerstage
Hey Glenn! I like your approach. I have an amp that you can switch the power tubes (Groove Tubes Soul-O 75) it's not really a metal amp though. I switched the tubes from KT88's to EL34's so that it wouldn't be so darn loud and I could push the amp into power amp distortion at a much lower volume (it's still loud though). I'm curious, I wonder what would a comparison be like when the amp is pushed to its max. Do different tubes behave differently in that situation. I'm curious. My experience with my Groove Tubes amp tells me, probably not but I've never gone at it with a methodical approach. Maybe you can give us an answer?
Hm, dear glenn, great content! I have a suggestion regarding the methodology. What about reamping the same setup a couple of times without any change and then analyzing the spectrum. Sounds odd, but it would show, how reliable the measurement is. Otherwise we might interpret visual differences in the spectrum where there are none to speak of.
Hey Glen,
I was wondering how you measure the Amps if they're distorting the Audio Signal? If you're measuring them with REWs Sine Sweep, does it make a different if you measure it with Pink Noise instead? I don't have the equipment to measure it myself, so maybe you could clear some things up?
GLENN, is there a way to set up an amp sim to sound more like an amp in the room? I use amplitube 5 and its great for recording, but if I try to use it to rehearse or practice it sounds awful in my room, I assume its because I have small 5 inch monitors that just can't move air like a 12 inch guitar speaker. Is there a way to make amp sims sound better in the room without huge expensive monitors? I tried messing with IRs and the built in mic simulation and moving the mic back does help it sound a bit more "natural" but it just doesnt sound like a real amp.
Glenn can you please try the Mesa triple Crown 50w head for some of this testing? It comes typically loaded with el34 but it is also swappable with 6V6 or 6L6. I just used it with whatever tubes came with it until they stopped working and eventually switched them out... I tried 6V 6 tubes while I was waiting for The Replacements to arrive and I found that the volume dropped nearly in half... This big wattage drop caused me to increase how much I was using the master volume which to my ears made it sound different.... But I'm not sure if that was just an illusion would love to see you actually test that amp head out it is killer!!
In a Plush head, schematic almost the same as a Fender twin, my brother put in Radio Shack 6L6 power tubes, and they would just sit there glowing orange like they would melt the plate. Plate voltage was way high near destruct level, the tubes were not conducting enough. So the tubes were dissipating way to much heat just sitting there. I put a new set of RCA 6L6 tubes in, and that pulled the plate voltage down to the normal maximum voltage rating for that tube in a tube manual. No glowing plates.
Same guitar being played through a modeler (Moore GE300) and simply changing through my 40+ non stock IRs from Andy James and Will Putney proves that more tone comes from the speakers and mic placement. Each IR makes my guitar sound completely different by just switching through them. Of course they are very much EQ changes also. Still love my 2 tube amps though lol. Peavey Invective mh and PRS MT-15.