Hey Glenn! Love your work! Your advice and knowledge has really upped my game in the production world! Kind of funny that you throw anything other than the Vintage 30 into this mix because I have quite the speaker for you to try! Have you ever recorded an EV12LM? Dude! These speakers are a game changers when it comes to tone! I have recorded, played live, and just straight jammed with these speakers. So at first what’s funny is that at first when you listen to these speakers they sound rather strange compared to Celestions, or any of the major brand speakers out there. At first when I was just jamming with them I didn’t like them, but the first time a Mic got introduced to them especially in a live or recording setting….dude that’s all you hear! Even in my band I’m the only guitar player that sonically shines unless the other guitar players in my band (I have 3 in my band including myself) unless the other guitar players really push their mids. Even then, they sound really thin. Recording them automatically (and dude I use a ribbon mic in the middle and an SM-57 towards the middle of the cone to the outer rim) it is HUGE! I don’t know what EV did with these speakers…but my god they sonically destroy everything else I’ve ever played or have jammed with ever since. They sound strange when you put them in a closed back extra big cab. In your ears they tend to push more low and mid range than high end, but in a mic….the BEST sound with minimal effort. I used to have trouble with my vintage 30’s capturing all my tiny nuances and sounding like a real guitar, but more in the moment type sound. I don’t know…it’s strange…but I definitely think you’d be blown away by these speakers. 300w per speakers and weighing in at 30 pounds per speaker…yeah it’s a heavy cab but so worth it! Would love for you to try out so EVLM’s and tell me what you think! Doesn’t matter if the amp is solid state or tube….sonically….youre the ONLY guitar player that will ever stand out…
Hey All, Ignazio here from Jensen Speakers. Glenn, this is by far one of the most enlightning videos made about speakers and their importance on the guitarist's tone. Very well done, thank you from the whole community! And thanks to everyone who listened and commented on the Jensen Raptor tone. Quick info: the Jensen Raptor is a 12", 100W, ceramic magnet, 2" voice coil, and it's designed to work well in either open, closed and ported cabs. In our view, the speaker is SO critical because: 1) it's by far the most complex filter you can apply to your tone. Not even the most sophisticated EQ can mach the compexity of a speaker curve. Only an IR can come really close, but this introduces a whole new set of variables and opens a completely different discussion, so let's forget it for a second. 2) it's the very LAST filter in the signal path, right before your ears or your microphone(s). Everthing that happens before, is filtered and colored by the speaker. Guitar, pickups, pedals, amps, etc. Therefore, experiment and test, with a good common sense and some sort of quasi-scientific approach, trying to exclude variables, as Glenn did. And then play loud, rock hard and have fun. Sometimes a different speaker may be the perfect tool to reach the tone you always wanted to have. Any curiosity, info, tech talk... feel free to hit me at anytime! I love sharing what I learned in all these years of guitar blasting!
@@GruntPa101 Thank you! It's always super interesting checkin' out what the players think, like, use! And if needed, it'll be our pleasure to go down the rabbit hole of tech talking!
I changed speaker in my cheap Line 6 15watt practice amp to Jensen C8R and change in sound its huuge. Maybe higain sound its not the best(it's old Line 6 so we must excuse this plastic sound) but the crunch its really agressive. This cheap speaker loves power so when i add volume nearly 12 o clock its "breaking" and shows power like there is booster in signal chain. Speaker its louder than "Custom" Line6 speaker, crisper and have something in tone thats for me it's "live". Thats my thoughts after changeing my speaker to Jensen. Good job all good people in Jensen, next speaker will be something more metal and modern than C8R also from Jensen.
I was never truly sold on Glenn's theory until I actually did the tests. My friends & I spent days in my warehouse changing out speakers in various sized cabs & playing at high volume. The results were exactly as Glenn had said. Older amps gained new versatility through this & newer ones sounded even better than the manufacturers intended. Yes, it was crazy expensive to do & yes, I have a place to do it where volume is not an issue, but as a player with decades of experience who has never been very experimental with my tones, it was an eye-opening experience & has led to me swapping speakers in a lot of my modern amps in order to get the most satisfying tones. Remember, when companies are cutting costs to keep an amp at a determined price point, skimping on the speaker is one of the first places they go. It's good to have your preconceived biases tested in many aspects of life this way so that you're not just spouting bullshit that you've 'seent' on the internet..
I swear to God, if they start putting glowing LED lights on speakers to make cabs look like gaming computers, guitar players will suddenly give a shit about it.
@@Mr.Goldbar I did this on my bass rig, not to the speakers tho, but the 19" 6U rack case and it looks really nice on stage. I ran a LED strip around the inside of the front opening and also to the back, which eliminates the need for a flashlight if some connection fixing needs to be done.
Actually yeah, that was sort of the implication wasn't it? Differing volumes and quality levels, sure, and perhaps some tailoring to the amp they're build for.... But basically just a conduit to present the sound of the amp, was frequently implied if not stated.
that is confusing high-fidelity home audio systems, which is supposed to be "faithful", with amplification, which is intended to add character/personality.
That was me. For some hair-brained reason, I wanted to hear the amp's tone and not the cab's, so I hauled around a 4x12 loaded with EVMs for years thinking it'd give me an "uncolored pure tone". Then I tried a 1960BV cab and realized how much better it sounded.
Then guitarists are still at fault for mistaking 'flat response' studio monitors and guitar speakers. I mean just play a recorded song through a guitar speaker instead of a HiFi speaker or studio monitor, it sounds like absolute garbage. I worked that s**t out when I was still in my teens!!! this is not difficult stuff.
Friend of mine has been telling me it’s the speaker for well over ten years, couldn’t understand why he had dozens of speakers everywhere in his house, until I decided to try out something to replace the 70/80 Speaker that came in my DSL20C. Amazing how much things changed in tone. Settled on a Creamback Neo. Huge difference in tone. And I’m not a metal player. Classic Rock, Blues, Country, and many odd 80’s cover tunes in my bar band. Learning speakers sound different depending on the amp type, cabinet size, and open/closed/ported cabinets opens a lot of possibilities for me. Appreciate what you’re bringing to the table here.
What's always blown my mind - in my band - we work hard on our guitar sound, for live - so that the two rhythm guys complement each other, NOT cancel each other out - so after hours and hours of working on our tones to jive, live- we've ALSO discovered the speakers made all the difference. The funny part: when playing smaller venues - and other bands want to "share the back row" WITH OUR Cabinets... - then bitch when they've lost their sound - I just laugh and think of Glenn. He's right, no matter how hard some people don't want it to be true. hahaha..
You must be a very polite band ;) Complement refers to something that completes something else, while compliment means a remark "especially in the form of admiration, esteem, or approval".
the whole guitar tone depends on a shit ton of things. Without any real experience i know that by simply being a fan of Dimebag Darrell, who had a huge amount of interviews, i think it is for a reason stated what amps he used, what strings he used, what effects he used, what kind of speakers, microphone And the microphone angle, as during a recording it all has an effect. Complementing each others tones is a nice touch, i once wanted to make a rig with a doubler (again Dime influence), but a had 2 different amps (Randall Diavlo and Spark 40), so it was very hard to build a tone that would complement each other, so the use of 2 amps together sucked. This short story shows how difficult tone building is and it is even more difficult if we speak about 2 guitar players that would cumplement each other with their tones and at the same time, hopefully be somewhat different. Many people don't realise this "small" trick, which creates a huge difference in the result. Many great bands have this, out of my mind I can pick slayer, as kerry and jeff had slightly different tones, but not too much different, so they sounded amazing together. What is the name of your band? I would love to hear the way you sound? Also, where are you guys based, what country?
@nicolaemira5726 It was a tough one - both used 5150III's and the respective speaker cabs. Different guitars, different pedal set ups - Just a lot of similar frequencies. We messed with all the settings, in the end, it boiled down to one keeping their cabinet and the other switching to an oversize mesa - then we zeroed in on who carried the chunk and who carried the definition - by adjusting mids and bass levels. We don't have our bass player a lot, as he works out of town - but we still sound great, live. I have a couple clips on the youtube channel of some live play, this passed halloween and summer - and our album is on bandcamp - which can be found in my community post. (I can't put a link in a comment for some reason) But we're a bunch of older dudes that do this for the fun and the music. Based out of British Columbia Canada. Burn It All.
This video is incredible. So methodic, so informative, so objective - all the while being entertaining. This has been the pattern that has definitely taken shape over the last couple of years on this channel in my option. I am truly grateful for your work and have learned an immense amount from this channel. Absolutely stellar job - I don’t see any possible way this video could have been improved in any regard whatsoever. Just top notch work - well done and thank you!
Great video dude, this is so unbelievably overlooked… I guess speakers just aren’t sexy enough. Although I feel compelled to point out that Galileo died peacefully in his home and was not tortured to death. Love you bro, see you at NAMM
Glenn, because of you I bought several Mojotone speakers and I can’t believe how they changed my sound! I can’t decide which I like best so I built a 2x12 cab with a BV25m and a BV30. I love the combination with my Orange Rockerverb 50. I mic both speakers and blend them. I still have my vintage 30 Orange 2x12 cab so I have many options now. I plan on ordering some other brands to try other combinations. My live sound is way more interesting now.
The worst thing to happen to metal players and players in general is guerrilla marketing tactics. People worry about spending too much time spending money instead of practicing and they wonder why they sound like ass? Here’s a hint: It’s not the amount of dollars you spent.
Guerrilla marketing not only affects metal players. The sheeple in general have fallen for the lies of Guerrilla marketing. As proven by the number of people that fell for the lies of the governments of the world and the pharmaceutical companies and lined up to get their jab. 🤷🏼♂️
Lots of thoughts on this video. I was just getting into production during the golden hour/dusk of the Sneap forum. Andy Sneap was still posting on it. some random guy was doing free guest solos on records (who turned out to be Per Nilsson), Colin Richardson was sharing his GML8200 settings, Mark Lewis his 6505 settings and his parallel EQ chain on a Black Dahlia Murder recording. I also was learning from early modelers about tone, and specifically the GNX3000, and found myself gravitating towards two cab models called "Grnb412" and "Fane412". My first introduction to speakers being different. The T75 can be really good, but it's very much a "fix in the mix" type of speaker from impressions reading forums and my experiences. One of the things I remember seeing on the Sneap forum was the Sm57/421 duct taped together, pointed right in the middle, and low passing the hell out of it. I believe I recall Andy doing impulses responses on the cab that he did Dead Heart In A Dead World with (I believe a 1960 with T75s) The Sm57 is also a cliche in my opinion. Changing a mic can have a profound affect on the recorded tone. I don't think the Sm57 is the best mic for all speakers (for me, anyway). I really like the heil Pr20 on v30s for example, but hate it on Greenbacks.
coming from a childhood filled with car audio, this is also hilarious because it was all about the drivers and enclosures, even optimizing driver parts and doing crazy stuff like doubling up spiders, dual wound voice coils, different pole piece designs, magnet swaps, playing with cone materials and surrounds, matching impedance, nerding out over Thiele/Small params, playing around in BassBox Pro, trying to optimize band pass and transmission line enclosures…. Guitar cabs and players seem to largely not care about any of this. Here’s a fun experiment: hook your hifi amp up to your guitar cab and see how music sounds through it. I’ll bet it sounds terrible. Sure; it’s not designed for that, but lots of guitar cab speakers sound like crap because they are. Guitar amps and pedals are not hifi in any way. Put a quality guitar preamp, or even better, go direct into a Hi-Z input on a $500+ preamp and run that out to some studio monitors. Compare that to your guitar amp tone. Maybe you like the sound of the amp and cab, but they’re not at all accurately amplifying the input signal. Not that I think anyone actually care about the opinion of some random internet guy who has zero albums under his belt and has never played in a band seriously, but I think Kempers through high-quality PAs sound better than almost any guitar amp head + cab I’ve heard…and swapping cab IRs is fun, easy, and cheap. Sounds kinda obvious but when you have an accurate and relatively flat way to amplify the signal and turn that into air movement, it’ll accurately amplify whatever you put in instead of distorting it in specific and probably bad ways, so you can change the sound upstream and have the physical electroacoustic output system change that as little as possible. Once you’re dealing with IRs, you can make it sound like anything, or sound like something that doesn’t / couldn’t exist in the real world. Instead, we’ve been thinking literally inside the box for far too long IMO.
One of the most important guitar recording videos, period. Between this, the cab irrelevance for close mic'ed heavy guitar, and the high degree of insignificance when it comes to pick up choice, you're killing it, Glenn! Great job, keep up the good work and keep up the best attempt at scientifically investigating claims! ❤
The pioneer era of metal aka the 80s was a great time to be alive because "the metal sound" had yet to be discovered, and every band still had it's own unique sound.
So, it’s not that you’re saying that pickups, preamps, effects etc *don’t* affect the tone, but that speakers can have just as much effect, if not more when taking everything into account. My question then would be, how to you decide on new speakers without buying a bunch to shoot them out yourself? Any tips/advice on that? I’m asking in earnest as I have a JCM 900 B cab that I bought second hand but only has two speakers and I need to get two more (I don’t remember what’s in there, been a while since I had the back off to look at them)
Hi Glenn, how did you preserve the exact same mic position after the speaker swap? I think backloading would be better for this purpose. Or did you remove the cab entirely, and after the swap, you placed the bottom to the exact spot? The position and the distance of the mic to the speaker are some of the variables that should also be fixed, cause an inch shift can change the sound quite noticeably.
I'm so glad to hear your opinion on the V30. Because I've hated the V30 since I've ever heard it! It's bright and harsh to my ears. Can't stand it. What I DID fall in love with, is actually the Mesa Black Shadow Custom 90 by Celestion. Much smoother and doesn't wear my ears out. I special ordered a Mesa Trad Slant with those C90s and love it. Curious to know if you've ever used one and your opinion? I'd love to get a mic specifically matched for that speaker if you have any opinion on it. Thanks! 👍🏻🤘🏻
All of them sounded great! There's something so right about the Mojotones that made me prefer it over the others. The Jensens had some annoying frequency I can't really tell, and the rest of them sounded very similar. I would love to see them compared to the more popular Celestions just as a reference point, if someone prefers the V30s over all of these more power to them, at least they're informed :)
I agree, the Mojotones really had an excellent sound to them. I also liked the Celestions quite a bit. Mojotone is an extremely underrated company imho - their pickups are incredible too. I even prefer them over the excellent Lollars and Fralins I've had, when it comes to clean tones.
I have a 2x12 that used to have a V30 and a Lynchback, mic'd with a SM57 and a ES906. Got a pretty individual sound. Swapped out the V30 with a Greenback, lucky enough to find a guy that wanted a V30 and had a Greenback and it sound pretty cool imo. Also made mixing a little easier, as I wasn't fighting the top end from the V30.
I'm just a hobby musician (loving prog metal, djent ...) but I strongly support the notion that cabs and speakers make a significant difference with regard to the outcome at the end of the signal chain. If I had to make a ranking I would say 1st Amp, 2nd speakers/cabs und 3rd guitar. Currently I'm using - among others - four different cabs with V30 speakers (Diezel 2x12, Diezel 4x12, Mesa Road King and Harley Benton 2x12). The differences between them are remarkable, but not in the sense of better or worse. They are just different. The cheap Harley Benton for example excels (IMHO) when bringing slightly distorted tones to shine.
Great video! One remark though on the front loading cabinet if I may. A lot of speakers have foam or other isolation material on the front. When you use those in a front loading cabinet, you should put some isolation material on the back between the speaker and the baffle. Otherwise you'll have the metal rim of the speaker vibrating directly against the wood of the baffle without some kind of buffer.
I tend to go with a brighter speaker, like the greenback or cream back. I don't play modern metal, but do play a lot of 70's-90's metal. The amps I use tend to have more mids, as opposed to modern metal players using less mids and compensating with the vintage 30 mid hump.
In fact, a speaker cab also NEEDS to be calculated for each speaker using the Thiele-Small parameters. I communicated with Ignazio, the Jensen chief engineer... The Raptor's idea is to have something similar to the EVM12L without the 8.5kg weight per speaker. I absolutely LOVE my EVM12Ls, I just can play ANYTHING, no matter the style, with these speakers, using the twin-EQ trick with my amp... The only thing they can't dig in are alnico speakers which behave totally differently... If these were easily available, I'd go for the EVM12SRO which is similar with an alnico magnet... or its parent speaker, the Altec417 w. cardboard dustcap... I considered the Weber Michigan12 Alnico w. the large dustcap option BUT they discontinued the alnico version, anyway, a Weber alnico speaker is INSANELY expensive in Europe. Sincethese are really unobtainium, well, I went for the Jensen Blackbird100 and the WGS Blackhawk100, both being conceived as alternatives to the SRO and the 417... And they're really great... Since I'm getting involved with a new band, I'm considering using either the Jensen Raptor100 or the Tornado Special Edition : all are based on the same speaker, the Raptor100 is the ferrite version, the Bluebird100 is the alnico version and the Tornado100 SE is the neodynium version and I'm not that young, my back is F-up so I'd prfere not having to carry my Thieles with the EVM12Ls. Speakers I use at the studio: Electrovoice EVM12L Jensen Blackbird100 WGS Blackhawk100 Audax F30PA12 JBL E120 Weber California12 Celestion Greenback Celestion Gold Alnico (replaced the Greenback in a Vox AC-15) Jensen P12R alnico Unidentified "Fender" speaker from the Champ12 Beyma 15MI100 "mk1" (30-4000Hz version) for bass amps Electrovoice EVM18 for bass amps Electrovoice EVM10B for bass amps Speakers I dumped: Celestion V30 aka "icepick in the ear" Celestion G12T75 Celestion G12M70 Eminence Wizard (sounds nice, similar to the G12H, but lacks definition, nice if you want to make a concert amp from a 15W : it's as loud as a 4x12 loaded with Greenbacks or G12-65)
Hey Glenn. Have you ever considered releasing IR's for all these different speakers? I know that myself and a lot of other guitarists would love to have access to these types of speakers for plugins and modellers
Thank you for the demo of the band playing with different speakers. I'm interested in trying out which ones I'll like the most. I only wish the clip was longer with more of the rhythm comparisons
I put an eminence Texas heat in my Peavey bandit red stripe. Man I love that sound. I get compliments on my playing through that amp all the time. Phenomenal. Thanks Glenn for the hard work you do. I wish guitar players would just say 'I bought it because I wanted it.' Then we could all get on with our lives.
GLEEEENNNNN!!!!!! I know I'm late to the party, but I just recently decided to get new speakers in my cab. I have a Peavey Triple X. I don't know much of anything about wattage and ohms. Was really interested in mixing speakers in my 4x12. How does it work if per say I chose to go with 2 HESU Demons and 2 WGS Reapers? They both have different watt counts. Afraid of my lack of knowledge here. Would love some advise here before I make my decision. Love the show and hope you keep prospering.
since your early videos about the speakers and the good replacements for the V30, I have installed a Hesu Demon in my 1x12 Mesa Cab (Cab from 2012 - I think the version you categorised as bad) early last year. Best decision ever! the sound difference is just incredible! Thanks again for all the videos you do to inform us even if it goes against some hard beliefs we have regarding tonewood, speakers, pickups etc.!
Glenn! This was a great video to show the differences between some great speakers, but can we ever hope to see some 10" speakers? I've heard some of the stoner bands have gotten their tones by using a Fender DeVille 4x10 combo. I got my hands on a pair of old Marshall 1965 4x10 cabs, and for us old farts it's nice to have a smaller, lighter cabinet whether we're lugging our gear to a gig or moving stuff around in the studio. I'm also thinking that adding in 10" speakers will just be more colors in our palette. Back in June I caught Yob's show in Boston and walked up to Mike Scheidt after their set and said, "What, no more Monson guitars?" because he was playing a Dunable Gnarwhal that night, and he said, "Why limit yourself to the 8 pack of Crayolas when you can have the 64 pack?"
Hi Glenn, This is a long one, so strap in 👀 A quick crash course in T-75 history, it's worth noting that they've had several iterations that all sound different, like the V30 (original Marshall Vintage, made-in-UK "Mesa" V30, and the 2004+ made-in-China) the sound of the T-75s over the years has changed, around the same times as the V30. Essentially there are 3 main variants of the T-75: - The original 80s JCM800 spec, well loved and had the plain "white" label (some had vented magnets but this arguably doesn't affect anything) - JCM900 spec, the first with the white+black stripe label, made in the UK, far less popular than the original. This was the variant Kristian Kohle used in his scathing video on the T-75 - Current production made in China. Even more gravelly and obnoxious sounding A while ago I picked up a white label version from the 80s and I'm using it in my 1x12 DSL at the moment. It sounds so much better than the modern made version, and works well with mid-strong Marshall tone stack. Obviously it's a Celestion from the 80s so it's a bit thinner than the V30 and the Green/Creambacks and needs to be treated differently. If you're going after classic 80s T-75 tones, it's definitely worth looking for an old one. If you really can't find one, the Eminence Man-O-War is meant to be based on the original T-75, or G12-65/Classic Lead 80 will be the closest things within the current Celestion family, and sound good in their own right. I also found a recording someone made that showing the differences between the old/new: ruclips.net/video/yeBu08KT2QY/видео.html Hope this helps, and good luck in the eternal quest for tone!
@@Danielrguitar92 yeah I agree they're not as dreadful as their popular opinion, though they are quite hard to tame. The next step on from "tone is in the speaker" is understanding what tones are in what speakers, and how to get the best out of each. Most reviews and comparisons I see where people bash speakers is when "Speaker X" is treated identically to a reference V30, and then being disappointed that they don't sound better than a V30, without stopping to think what else it brings to the table, or if an EVH/Recto (EQd for a V30) boosted with an SD1, and an SM57 square on the cap might not be the perfect compliment for everything. For people in a creative industry, musicians sure lack creativity when it comes to their way of working
I worked for Celestion USA back in the early 90s. We sold a lot of Vintage 30s even then. I found two things make a big difference in a speaker's sound. The first was the size of the magnet, the more gauss in the gap the stronger your motor. The other was the cabinet, IIRC Vintage 30s were a good combo speaker (open back cabinet), but Greenbacks were better in a 4 x 12. It may be all different now. I just know that when I replaced the G12T-75 in my Marshall combo with a Classic Lead 80 (56 oz magnet vs 36 oz) I suddenly had an amp the had warmth and bottom. I haven't worked for Celestion in 30 years, so no dog in this fight. By all means try the Jensen or Eminence or whatever.
My guess is actives and particularly Fishmans, as they're a PCB design instead of copper wire. EMGs are also a guess of mine, as they're so quiet you don't even need to ground them
@@Mr.Goldbar My guess would have been EMG's as well. I have them in two of my telecasters that I use for metal. They are quiet but not completely quiet. Glenn has convinced me there is no real tonal difference between pick ups under high gain application. What we all fight though is noise. Is there a pick up out there that reigns supreme in combating noise? Might be a useful test. I'd do it myself but I do not have the resources, time, or frankly needed skills to be swapping an array of pick ups.
In this mix the hesu demon seemed super balanced and open on the top end. Also really liked the dv77 quite a bit. Would be cool to see it against the v30
I learned that the speakers make all the difference for any audio back in the '70 when building my first component stereo system. Risley Audio had a wall of all the speakers they sold in their sound room, Klipsk (sp?) through JBL's, and would put on ELP Trilogy's, From The Beginning and switch between speakers. The difference was amazing! There is a reason Studio Monitors are used in studios, accurate reproduction. Frank Zappa even went to the extreme to mix one of his albums using the most commonly sold speakers of the day, one of JBL's. But of course with the compression inherent in Vynal records it failed to reproduce accurately. Great Video!
I remember those walls. It was like the only time it was ok to go around pushing all the red buttons. Push the button, sample the speaker. This concept was everywhere by the 1990s. Now it's gone.
As someone who uses DV77’s live and in recording for my band, I completely agree. Now I’m thinking of getting a couple of those HESU Demons to pair with the DV77’s. Great video Glenn! Keep up the good work! It’s much appreciated!!
After I bought my very first tube amp I had to find a cab for it. I came across a 212 with WGS Reaper HP's (as it turned out much later) without knowing anything about speakers and all the stuff. Friend of mine told me "It's not vintage 30's but sounds good". I nodded as if I understood what he was all about. So I plugged in and strummed a couple of chords and thought to myself "well, thats heeeeeeeeeeaaaaavyyyy" - and bought it. I 've changed quite a bit of amps, but that cab is still with me and I am more than happy with what it does all these years. And even in the video I liked wgs more than the others. Lucky me, I guess =) Anyway, thank you Glenn for what you are doing. Wish your videos were available years ago when I was a newbie )) In the very beginning due to lack of experience we tend to make mistakes and lose time and money chasing stupid phathoms. Now with your videos it has become much harder to. Well, provided that you are not a complete moron
As a strict guitarist who never bought into the hype of pickups and tone wood , your videos have bright me joy and new areas to look into with buying gear. Than you good sir.
Great demonstration and a point well made. Thank you Glen. However… may I ask you to do it all over again in order to demonstrate compliance/resonance vs damping. I suspect this will have an even bigger influence on the way a guitarist performs than frequency response does. Some speakers feel spongy (or one might say “smooth”) because of poor damping, and others feel more responsive, because of better transient response (I suppose this could be described as the mechanical equivalent of slew rate). It’s a more difficult thing to objectively test for, but I’m sure your up for the task.
Damn really liked that fat snare sound :) To me the combination of sounds from all sources is where it's at. Doesn't matter if your guitarsound is the greatest ever if your drums sounds dull or the bassplayer plays crappy you are out of luck. Now I would point out that I'm a live sound engineer and as such I usually have to take into account whether it's a large stage compared to a club gig. But it boils down to the ability of the musicians to recognize the different scenarios and set the sound of their own gear accordingly. A full blast 100Watts amp in a small club will only make life HELL for everyone involved except the mindless guitarist. I could go on forever about this but you get the point.
So I have a Hesu 2 x 12 cab with the Demon speakers fitted as you’d expect and that lives in my home studio. For band rehearsal and live a have a Peavey Valveking 4 x 12 (cost me £21) with whatever standard speaker it comes with and never really thought about the difference as the volume used in each environment is so different I didn’t really notice a difference. Until I brought my Hesu to band rehearsal! Oh wow, the whole band noticed the difference in sound. I’m now going to swap out at least two of the Peavy speakers for Hesu Demons! Awesome video Glen!!!
I’ve got a Jensen Tornado Stealth 65, and love it. The neodymium magnets make it so much lighter, as well; the V30 I’ve got next to it feels twice as heavy, and not in the musical way.
@@SpectreSoundStudios Why ask me? As you can see, I'm a bassist, so Rule #2 applies. lol I'm all over the Jensen speakers. I am considering checking them out as an addition to my rig. I don't really know too much about these things as I go to the shop with my head and play through whatever bass cabs they have. If there's one I REALLY like, I get it home to A/B against my curent. Could you do a bass speaker shoot? I've been using, pretty much the same rig for about 9 years, now and would like to hear what's out there without spending $200 a pop.
Even within the celestion brand there are so many different colors of speaker sounds. I have many amps and many speakers, there is no best speaker for guitar.
Many weeks ago I said that metal tones are now all the same, no one listened to me. Now you do a video on it. I can even hear the difference on my crappy TV speakers and on headphones it's massive.
Glenn, recently David Maxim Micic made a video explaining why speakers matters the most in a guitar tone. Perhaps you can collab with him or make some references to his video? Maybe then other guitar players will be much more open minded to accept this truth when they hear it straight from a very talented guitarist.
Big fan of DMM and thought that video he did on speakers was absolutely fabulous. Definitely made me think of Glenn and his quest as well to show how speakers are the true tone shifters. A collab would be absolutely amazing to see!!
@@happycadaver His demos, explanations and examples with the closed vs open backed cabs were brilliant. I do believe a lot of people will change their mind if they hear it straight from any musicians that they respect. Glenn is Glenn and people who refuse to accept him as a great audio engineer will never listen to his advice. Having someone like DMM onboard should help.
Hey Glenn, thank for this great test. I`m about to buy the HB V30 vertical Cab, which you recommend too. It`s more affordable than an empty Cab and buy other speakers at the moment. As you show in another clip and also mentioned in this one: how big is the influence of A: Mic Position B: Which Mic Maybe that is also an interesting test. Wich sounds you can get from an V30 with diffenent Mics and different positions compared to the common V30-SM57 Combo.
I have an Axe-FX (I'm one of those, Glenn, 😉) and I once looped a riff and cycled it through all the amp models and then all the IR's. The latter by far gave me the greatest changes in tone. I'd say get a large selections of IR's, loop a riff and see which IR you like best, and then try the corresponding speaker.
That is actually exactly how I discovered that I am a really big fan of the Celestion Creamback. By far my favorite Celestion, with the Greenback being an almost close second.
Greetings Glen, apologies of you've answered this before but I want to buy a new solid state combo amp in the near future. My current setup is an old Laney tube fusion head (solid state) on top of a fender 2×12 (idk what speakers) and a line 6 pod xt pro. I like to just use a nice quality clean amp and leaving the distortion to the line 6 unit since it has all the effects. Obviously I'm not trying to blow unnecessary cash on some hyped up tube combo and I'm not concerned about the amps ability itself to create good metal distortion. Thanks Glen and happy turkey day 💪⚕🔱
5 of my favorite speakers ever. And tbh I think a lot of people are experimenting with more than V30s, as I’m in a shit ton of groups and a lot of people are experimenting with DV77s and I love it. I also blame Kristian Kohle for that hahaha BTW that mix sounds incredible!
but did you mount the speakers with compensated tone screws using a properly calibrated pressure gauge? hmmm??? seriously though, from this shootout my favorites were the Hesu and WGS
@@SpectreSoundStudios you need to use NEUTRAL screws to prevent unwanted harmonics and tone colorations. NO BRASS!! Also, over/under tightened screws will apply uneven pressure causing misalignment issues and transient divergences across the conic substrate, which will give you FLUBBY BASS RESPONSE
saying the speakers don't make a difference is basically on the same level as stating the earth is flat. this is probably THE most instant effect on your sound with mic placement.
I have some vintage 30s. Just bought an old Peavey Butcher. Owner made me take the original 4x12 cab with it. I opened it up. It has G12-k85's 16ohms. Gotta say I think I like these more. Gonna start hoarding this unwanted workhorse. Also in the deal I obtained some 71 Eminence black dots. Gotta say these sound amazing also. I think I'm done with Vintage 30's. I've tried creambacks and the new hype DV-77's. They are great but there is something about the k85's. I feel like they are getting summed at a closer range and feel like they are somehow louder but pushing more air?? Gonna try some tests today with SM57's, 121's, U87, 421 to try to identify the acoustic shadows as per the Steve Albini method.
Speaking of speakers, I've just acquired a pair of Kali LP-8s to replace my smaller KRK Rokits. I also learned the very basics of REW and found a couple of resonances in my room, managed to tame them a bit and wow does everything sound so clear 3D now. The separation of sounds is something I've yet to have worked with and I can actually hear the changes I'm making to my mixes!
Absolutely love your work, Glenn. Quick question for you as I value your opinion on such a topic the most- I know this video was specifically for speakers that AREN'T Celestion, but I was curious what your thoughts were on other Celestion products? I know Iommi used seventy 80s at one point, Kirk Hammet has a signature Randall cab with rocket 50s I believe, and I really enjoy the sound of my Kustom q412a which came factory-loaded with celestion super 65s. After seeing this video I'm extremely tempted to swap the speakers in my Randall RG412 to Jensen Raptors. The factory speakers sound fine, but "fine" isn't good enough. Please keep up the awesome content! 🤘
Several years back, I purchased a $90 Vox VR15 (obviously NOT metal, but I use it pretty much wide open) and promptly blew the 8" Jensen that came in it. I don't like anything of mine to be like other guitarist, so I decided to pull the head out of the amp and build my own cab to house the head a new 12" speaker with a higher wattage handling. A buddy brought over several speakers, including Celestions Green Back and Vin 30, a very old Peavey Scorpion (if memory serves). I had a Carvin 10" (sounded a lot different and pretty cool!), an Eminence The Governor, and another 12" that escapes me now. I was playing my '95 Strat (single coils) and the differences were HUGE! At one point, I told him that I was listening with my eyes and asked if he would swap the speakers without me seeing what I was playing. We did that and I settled on the Eminence, hands down. Speakers are EVERYTHING! Thanks for your channel, I've learned a lot!
GLLLEEEENNN!!! Still always lovin your content brother!! I'll just say right out, I've always used my cab and speakers for TONE and pickups to give me different responses with that tone. Being a tech for over 15 years has taught me one thing, THE PRACTICE AMP I ALWAYS TEST MY WORK WITH ALWAYS SOUNDS THE SAME PEOPLE!! When changing out pickups, shit tons of metal rigs, I have learned that the same amp always had the same tone but the response, like achieving squeals and chugs easier from the different RESPONSES of the pickups, was what would change on the guitar. Getting more or less high or low end "response" out of the pickup is the height of the poles to the strings changing how the pickups respond to the waves of the strings at different levels. This is compared to the poles acting like a mic in front of a speaker cab, different distance and angle will pickup the "same" waves the strings are producing while reacting to different areas of the waves at different positions. And I'm sorry to all the "tone wood" lovers out there, but a Duncan SH-1 "59 Model" pickup sounds exactly the same in an Epiphone as it does a Gibson......
Hey @SpectreSoundStudios, can you review the L6 PowerCab? If you’re not familiar (I doubt it ☺️), they essentially a powered cabinet that tries to simulate specific speakers, not the sound of a mic’ed speaker in a room through an FRFR. (It technically _is_ an FRFR as well, but I’m trying not to focus on that.) For those of us who don’t have the access to multiple types of speakers, I wonder if these are a good option for a “cab in a room” sound as well as recording. Cheers from SoCal!
Thank you for all the explanations! I like Jensen approach. They have samples that are being re-recorded with each speaker. Hence, you can check out how same signal sounds via all the speakers. I am typical "playing at home" enthusiast. I ended up with ENGL Ironball with custom cabinet with Jensen C12R. It surprisingly doing well with hi-gain. There is no that harsh sipping of V30. The next project is even more conscious choice of a speaker. IRs are there, so everybody can choose what sounds better to them with real amp. Ironball SE is game-changer here, since you can just upload IRs to the amp without spending a lot of time in a laptop.
Appreciate the UHF clip-ins. Lol How do you feel about the IR world for those who are almost exclusively tied to the modeling world, Ala Fractal and the like? Do you have any IRs you are making in house to offer that show off these speaker options? 😃👍
I think there is room for compromise. We agree pickups affect clean tone, right? The biggest difference being single coil vs humbucker and if it's the cheapest crap ever made or something decent, be it brand or stuff like Irongear or GFS. Secondly we can agree that with the type of tone you prefer, extremely high gain, MT-2, hard clipping, "chuggable", it's barely noticable if at all and certainly pickibg one out in a blind test will yield results identical to guesses. But where do the two meet? Does soft clipping let more of the pickups sound through? The tone I like is an amp with master volume on max and pre-amp volume low (used to control loudness), gain 5, mids and treble high, tubescreamer up front, tone set bright for dark guitars and a little lower for bright guitars (PAFs and singles), level on max, gain 5-7 with some PAF style pickups, EQ in the loop, to get rid of any undesirableness, my amp is fizzy, so the top band is on almost zero. I hope to solve that by a speaker change from G12T100 to G12M65. But for now it's ok. So that yields kind of an Yngwie type tone, not exactly but more of a high gain blues sound, that kinda sounds "clean". No fizz, no "kshhhh" type sounds we all know and love (MT2 cranked). Just the tone itself with a lot of overdrive. Enough that you could chugg but a gentle, 80s cranked Plexi chugg, not a Spider 2 on Insane chugg. I at least seem to hallucinate that with this in essence part clean part overdriven, harmonic rich tone akin to Clapton, Hendrix, but Yngwie gain, that pickups do make a difference. Massive? Not unless it's a massive change like EMG 81 to P90. If you can't hear that difference with that tone your ears are broken:). But enough to be noticeable. Even adjusted for output by rolling back leven on the screamer my 500T equipped Flying V sounds completely different than my cheapo PAF equipped V and both sound quite different from my overwound PAF Les Paul style and the active PAF Les Paul (those are similar though). Amd P90s also sound substantially different. Like P90... As do the single coils in a strat and mine are stacked humbuckers and noiseless, so no hum. In simple terms if overdrives push an amp pickups in my opinion can ve differentiated as long as the gain is not ridiculously high. With a distortion pedal, hard clipping stuff, and all gain fully cranked for more of a Children of Bodom sound than Judas Priest in Sad Wings of Destiny, then pickups don't really matter. Certainly not humbuckers, they can't be differentiated by human ear and single coils likely only being different in noise (gain adjusted to match output). I think it depends how many harmonics that give a note it's character making a trumpet sound different playing a 440 hz a vs a piano, get through the signal chain and out of the speaker. And I am for sure not saying Seymour Duncan PAFs and DiMarzio sound much different. But the categories of pickups can be differentiated in surprisingly high gain scenarios. Plexi + Tubescreamer. Very transparent sound. I think a Strat sounds different to a Les Paul (PAF) through that setup. You may slap me now and ridicule my stupid guitarist brain. I mean my SM57 is mounted with a mic holder zip tied to a wooden rod, jammed into a drawar of the little shelf type thingy my amp sits on. So that's the type of of person I am. Also the Harley Benton with EMGs sounds as good as my 1 grand LTD. But a little different. One has 59/JB the other active PAF. Even output adjusted. I think I prefer the HB... but both from the Cort factory in Indonesia and gorgeous. And when I got the LTD, HB was not around yet. Incredible how good these cheap guitars sound and feel. Especially with good pickups. (The veneer does dampen the high end a bit over the pure mapletop though. Jk jk).
A very informative video. Thank you for taking the time to conduct all the tests. Why not go with an amp/cabinet/speaker setup that is flat through its range and color the sound with an EQ?
As someone who plays a digital rig (helix) this is all so obvious. Changing your IRs is a massive change. More dudes need to sit down and at least play with a digital set up and actually demo some of this gear, at least virtually before forming opinions, because vast majority of guitarists simply parrot bullshit they read online.
I built a new Marshall mg412 empty cabinet and filled it with 2 Eminence dv-77 and 2 Celestion vintage 30's and insulated the back panel lightly. I'm 46 y/o and have owned at least 50 different Cabs in my life easily. My current setup is IT for me. I have a PRS Archon 50 mk2 head and and run a Pepers Dirty Tree and I have never had a better sound in my career. Never. From Metallica (old and new) to Pantera to Tool, it does it all. A big change I made is installing an EMG 57 in the bridge of my Schecter Hellraiser. My search for versatility and robust hard, razor sharp sound is done. Now maybe I can enjoy playing.....lol. Awesome Channel!!
I built a few 1x12 cabinets with removable grills and t-nuts for the speaker screws so a speaker swap only take about 5 minutes and can be done repeatedly. I'm not sure if every speaker brand uses the same screw patterns, but Celestion and Eminence do. I prefer Eminence mainly because I got sick of Vintage 30's which made me hate Celestion. But, within a quick 10 minutes you can mix and match speakers for an infinite number of combinations. And you can go on RUclips and watch/hear people demo all of these speakers. Oh, and the sound guy at the local club that mics the 4x12 cabinet on the bottom corner speaker. Yeah, I've got two different speakers in the cabinet. So now just show up with one 1x12 cabinet with the preferred speaker for the gig and just mic the 1x12 into the PA. Hell of a lot better than lugging that 4x12 around. I get the sound I want, don't have to lug a bunch of gear and the guy running the board's life is just a tad bit easier and the band is generally happier that the volume knob is not controlled by the guitar player.
Ppl will mod their amps and roll tubes, but the biggest mod you can do is swap out to a different speaker 🔈 Thought most ppl already knew what a huge difference speakers make, not only in tonal characteristics (eg a Celestian Greenback sounds way different to a Vintage 30 or even an Alnico blue) but also SPL. A speaker’s sensitivity rating is also a factor. Again, comparing say a Vintage 30 to an EV will be huge. Thanks Glenn for making this video 😊
I once experimented with a P-bass, MXR compressor, an un-modded 1971 Fender Champ, and a few different 8" speakers. For the purposes of the test, all knobs were set to 10, and the test took place in an old Amish barn. The EV 8" dual cone (can't remember the model) was the only one that could handle the beating and it.just.sang, it was glorious!
This makes me very interested in the WGS Reaper, I love that sound. I'm curious how much of a difference it makes which amp is pushing it as far as dynamic range to adjust. I'm running an ENGL Ironball that I love through a V30 but it's kind of thin and tinny compared to the 5150 I used to run through it. The waxy sound of an ENGL does good things for my tingle factor but worried about marking it even more thin (in the midrange, we all should know and love the typical ENGL beef).
Glenn, I missed the part where you explain that guitar speakers are sound producers, not reproducers. The way they are driven, i.e. level & attack, introduces dynamic harmonics that form the "colour" of the sound. Just like how picking & strumming changes the tone depending on how hard & where you pluck the string. So, the musicians who really gets to know their setup & how to pull the sounds they want have the advantage. Also, a single frequency response at some nominal 95dB at some distance to compare drivers just gives a snapshot from a single perspective in the frequency domain. And that assumes that your measurement setup is truly reproducible. Have a look at the waterfall plots available in REW to get a sense of how frequencies ring over time. Thanks & keep up the great vids & supporting the Kali guys.
Very cool video. I wouldn't mind also hearing a comparison of how those speakers sound with a bit cleaner tones, though I understand this is not the focus of this channel. With many (most?) guitarists these days recording with cab sims, experimenting with speakers has become much easier and I would hope this will eventually lead to more varied tones. My personal discovery made thanks to the cab sims has been that if it's the midrange of the Vintage 30 that you are after, but you don't want the typical V30 tone, then 10 inch speakers can be a very interesting alternative.
Ugh, Glen, between this video, the one you did on cabinet geometry and materials, and the several you've done on pickups, I have tried so hard to get my friends to consider what you've proposed. I think perhaps since we're all in our late 40's/early 50's, they're still committed to getting the big name stuff, however (read: Fender Strat, Les Paul, Marshall with Celestions, etc.). Hopefully, after I send this vid to them, they'll begin to pay attention a bit more. And the irony is? I'm a bass player. Haven't dragged my knuckles since the late 90's 🙂
I remember the the speaker cab shootout from years ago. I was blown away by how massively different the sounds were. Rick Beato did pretty much the same thing but with heads but with the same cab. Again I was surprised by how subtle the difference was (there was a difference but compared to changing cabs....).
Glenn! Video idea: 2x12 with 2 different speakers, use your interface trick to blend them on the board. I would be curious to see the tom mic/57 method and fredman (typo?) Technique and swap the mics on the speakers to show how much of a difference you can have with 2 different speakers and 2 different mics. I started building a recording setup this summer consisting of lp6v2's, a uphoria 4c mixer, and a samson cs mic i nabbed back when you made that video. I need a d2, a d6, lewitt overheads and an euro mixer to complete it. Basically all the bang for your buck stuff you've featured over the yrs. The end goal being able to record guitar, bass, and drums using the glyn jons technique for as cheaply as possible. Maybe that was 2 video ideas for ya...would love to see it.
My senior year in college was right at the time the PMRC got warning stickers put on albums (I did a speech against it) just to put a time perspective on it (about 1985/early 1986). I remember the professor at that time repeating many times that for any sound reproduction scenario, concentrating on hi fidelity stereo systems, the speakers were the most important part of the sound. The speakers would determine what you were hearing. If you had the top of the line turntable/tape amplifier, etc., but had cheap speakers, it would not sound good. Basically this same argument but for stereos almost 40 years ago.
Thanks Glenn, great video! Totally guilty of expecting pickups to add the secret sauce to my sound but my ears were opened when I didn't take my own cab (Vintage 30 and Creamback 75H loaded) and I used the house cab in a rehearsal space we rented....totally different. was a beaten up Marshall 4x12 fuck knows what it was loaded with but it sounded mega. For all I know it could have been loaded with G12's/greenbacks/something else. Using a different cabinet and speaker does change your sound way more than a pickup swap ever would...I liked the Jenson speaker in this video.
This is great! This lets me know that my 10 year quest to get the tone I got from a borrowed cab at a gig, was not in vein! Turns out, it was the speaker NO ONE wanted to suggest to me, as most people dismiss it, and hate it, due to it's top end roll off. The Celestion G12M-70. The Vintage 30 is awesome, but it's not everything. Anyone that has used a V30, and recored with one, knows the mid range "shelf" they have, that you need to turn your amp up louder, to get over. And sometimes that "shelf" can just get annoying over time. Thanks for the recording of some other speakers to check out!
What about the frequency response of the microphones? Have you considered the effect of the cabinet volume on the speaker in the enclosure? The rest of your results are great. Of course, the same could be said for using the same IRs as they have less variance than a physical speaker in a room. Remove the variables and everything sounds the same. When I was recording a cabinet in a decent size room with a room mic [classic rock formula, 57 close, 87 back] I would key gate the room mic from the close mic to control room reverb, back when we actually had decent size and well treated recording rooms. [I usually used a Kepex, how many remember those?] Obviously, this technique will not be very effective in most of the garage, bedroom and basement spaces used these daze.
Could some of the difference between room sound and recorded sound have to do with the mic being right on the speaker- and our ears being in the room- away from the speaker? Would mixing in a second mic- a room mic- give a more natural sound? WE are getting the cab sounds, and the room sounds too. I had a similar experience when trying out a combo in the store, vs what it sounded like when I brought it home. I'd forgotten the fact that Guitar Center had the amp in a shelving unit. It's an open back cab, so all the bass and sound coming from the back was redirected right back at me. Moving it closer to a wall or in a closet made that sound re=appear.
@spectresoundstudios have you guys tried any 15 like Celestion Fullback? I know there’s are a few others floating out there, but I was curious whats your take on 15s? 🤘🤘
It’s worth mentioning that I was convinced to not upgrade the speakers in my Fender Champion 100W modeling amp after reading forum post after forum post about how speakers will not improve the sound and how I should just buy a “better amp”. While I have yet to install new speakers in my amp, I do now regret listening to guitarists’ advice on audio engineering and not an audio engineer’s… Any recommendations for a higher quality set of speakers suited for a modeling amp? I was looking at neodymium speakers for the sake of saving weight as this amp is rather hefty even though it’s solid state.
How loud is loud enough? I’d think that turning up as much as you would to hear yourself with a full band should work, after all that’s the sound that works in the moment. But because of how much I’ve heard about cranking amps I’ve tended to track guitars much louder… as loud as I can possibly stand. I feel like that didn’t actually help anything and I may approach the next session at real world volume. Amp is a Mesa Stiletto Ace 50 w 2x12 combo btw.
Apologies if this is a dupe. My comment disappeared. For the cabinet in the room vs mic'd, I wonder if one factor is that the mic is often so close to a speaker. First of all, the capsule on an SM57 is so small compared to the speaker. Another factor is that it would remove a lot of the reverb, especially with an SM57. I wonder if you back up the mic, put it in the middle of the room, use an omni-directional mic, put the mics at the back of the room, use a shotgun mic, etc. have been tried recently. There's been suggestions like point the mic 180 from the speaker, point them at the floor, etc as well. Another is a mic that has a 180 pickup pattern.
Hey glenn!! Love your videos - they have taught me more about "what matters" as far as tone goes and what doesn't than anything else I've read or watched. If you happen to see this comment maybe you can help me out - I have 3 Amps on hand (will be 4 tomorrow!) - a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, a Fender 65 Reissue Deluxe Reverb, a Marshall DSL40C and (arriving tomorrow), a Vox AC30C2 - the one with 2 12" Celestion G12M greenback speakers. I also have the matching 1x12" Fender Deluxe cabinet for the Hot Rod Deluxe, which I am actually using with the 65 Deluxe Reverb right now in a stereo configuration with the Hot Rod Deluxe (left is Deluxe Reverb+ Cab, Right is Hot Rod Deluxe). Right now, while I don't have friends who are interested in or motivated enough to learn an instrument so I could potentially form a band, I'm stuck trying to learn as many of my favorite songs as I can. These range from lots of things with very clean tone (The Allman Brothers, Phish, etc.) to things that have some pretty heavy tones (Led Zepplin, The Who, Tool, etc.). Oh and just for the record my guitar is a Fender American Ultra HSS Strat (Artic Pearl just like the one I've seen in your hands in some of your videos - I changed out the tortise shell pick guard for a Pearloid white guard, otherwise it has the all the stock Fender bits and pieces) My question for you is this - with my 1x12" cab and the Vox, I can ostensibly have 2x12" speakers pushing air on both sides. Do you have a recommendation of what speaker(s) I could use to get the best of both clean and heavier sounds? Are the Celestion greenbacks worth keeping in the Vox? Any information at all you could give me to point me in the best possible direction would be greatly appreciated!! I'd be happy to read anyone else's opinions as well!! Thanks!
Hey, Glen for those of us who already have V30 cabs and are looking to diversify... I have a 2x12 ENGL V30 cab... I also have an old crate 4x12 that I'm looking to reload... It would be great to know which speakers would blend with the V30 as well. A few of these speakers sounded great! I'm sure this video took a lot of time thank you for your service.... Just an idea....
You've mentioned getting a re-amp box a lot. I record as a side hobby. I don't release music (let alone finish most of my projects). I don't have any physical amps or cabs. Should I and others get a re-amp box if all we're using are Amp Sims? I see the usefulness when recording through physical equipment, but not when it's all digital. Edit: Well I guess to answer myself. I guess it would make sense if we were to send it to someone else to mix it. I try to mix all of my recordings.
I think people assume that because speakers are simple on paper and the spec sheet says 2 speakers have the same specs, that they will sound the same. But in reality, every little change in the construction of the speaker (or at least the electrical and moving components) will effect the frequency response etc. Slightly different stiffness or thickness of rubber in the surround, a slightly different weight in the cone, different number of turns in the coil, different strength of magnet etc etc. Will all change how it manages to convert an electrical signal into sound.
Glenn, I've been playing guitar for round about 10 years now and have been watching your channel off and on throughout that time, but I consider myself much more of a hobbyist than a musician. I'll never write a song, I'll never play in a band, and I'll never [semi]professionally record something (and to be clear, I'm ok with that), but some day I may upload a cover or two if I can ever get myself to actually practice (i.e. I'm still shit at guitar). Up until this year I'd been playing my electric guitars acoustically. I'd never plugged in my guitar to an amp; never even owned a cable. However now that I've actually started buying some gear (got some nice headphones and an interface in Feb. and have been using some great free plugins on Reaper), I plan to buy more hardware now that I can afford to do so. There are so many opinions on the internet and channels talking about recording and how to set up gear and whatnot, but few to none of them actually do much to empirically verify things, let alone have the focus on metal that you do, and that's all I play. Thank you so much for all the time you've spent educating the dumb populace (me), or I would have eventually dropped tons of money on gear that made no difference and I didn't know how to use. And remember, fuck you, Glenn! 😃🖕
Hi Glenn, After all your speaker AB tests confirmed your point, I did some thinking on the physics of speakers and found an Audiophile forum rabbit-hole. There are some out there that think controlling temperature and humidity have a significant effect on speaker tone/performance. Do you think there is any merit to this for guitar? (probably more than "tonewood" at least!) Cheers!
The other John Browne did a really great video on V30's, which shows that even the same kind of speaker can sound vastly different from another. So I get your point about 'every guitar tone sounds the same today' , I agree about that. But I dont think it's the speaker that much, as it is more in the whole todays standard on making heavey music: tons of highly saturated gain, same kind of production for the mix (super modern, mainly Plugins with presets, overcompressed drums, shrill Vocals, etc.), and youtube guys telling you 'HoW To GeT A KeEeEwL MeTaL GuiTaR SoUnD!!11' (No pun on you intended). I think all this stuff results in a very similar idea for many different people in what a 'good high gain tone' is supposed to be like.
The engineer in me appreciates the use of frequency plots! I am curious though, does the amplification of a given frequency depend on the magnitude of the input? In other words, does the speaker filter/amplify sounds linearly or nonlinearly?
Over 58% of the people watching this video are not Subscribed! More subscribers allows me to create more videos like this!
Hey Glenn!!! how about recording guitars with many room microphones?
I'm in the minority 😫
@@Dm3qXYthat’s coming!
Hey Glenn! Love your work! Your advice and knowledge has really upped my game in the production world! Kind of funny that you throw anything other than the Vintage 30 into this mix because I have quite the speaker for you to try! Have you ever recorded an EV12LM? Dude! These speakers are a game changers when it comes to tone! I have recorded, played live, and just straight jammed with these speakers. So at first what’s funny is that at first when you listen to these speakers they sound rather strange compared to Celestions, or any of the major brand speakers out there. At first when I was just jamming with them I didn’t like them, but the first time a Mic got introduced to them especially in a live or recording setting….dude that’s all you hear! Even in my band I’m the only guitar player that sonically shines unless the other guitar players in my band (I have 3 in my band including myself) unless the other guitar players really push their mids. Even then, they sound really thin. Recording them automatically (and dude I use a ribbon mic in the middle and an SM-57 towards the middle of the cone to the outer rim) it is HUGE! I don’t know what EV did with these speakers…but my god they sonically destroy everything else I’ve ever played or have jammed with ever since. They sound strange when you put them in a closed back extra big cab. In your ears they tend to push more low and mid range than high end, but in a mic….the BEST sound with minimal effort. I used to have trouble with my vintage 30’s capturing all my tiny nuances and sounding like a real guitar, but more in the moment type sound. I don’t know…it’s strange…but I definitely think you’d be blown away by these speakers. 300w per speakers and weighing in at 30 pounds per speaker…yeah it’s a heavy cab but so worth it! Would love for you to try out so EVLM’s and tell me what you think! Doesn’t matter if the amp is solid state or tube….sonically….youre the ONLY guitar player that will ever stand out…
Okay, I will subscribe, but be kind Glen, I am just a Bass Player ;)
Hey All, Ignazio here from Jensen Speakers.
Glenn, this is by far one of the most enlightning videos made about speakers and their importance on the guitarist's tone. Very well done, thank you from the whole community!
And thanks to everyone who listened and commented on the Jensen Raptor tone.
Quick info: the Jensen Raptor is a 12", 100W, ceramic magnet, 2" voice coil, and it's designed to work well in either open, closed and ported cabs.
In our view, the speaker is SO critical because:
1) it's by far the most complex filter you can apply to your tone. Not even the most sophisticated EQ can mach the compexity of a speaker curve. Only an IR can come really close, but this introduces a whole new set of variables and opens a completely different discussion, so let's forget it for a second.
2) it's the very LAST filter in the signal path, right before your ears or your microphone(s). Everthing that happens before, is filtered and colored by the speaker. Guitar, pickups, pedals, amps, etc.
Therefore, experiment and test, with a good common sense and some sort of quasi-scientific approach, trying to exclude variables, as Glenn did.
And then play loud, rock hard and have fun. Sometimes a different speaker may be the perfect tool to reach the tone you always wanted to have.
Any curiosity, info, tech talk... feel free to hit me at anytime! I love sharing what I learned in all these years of guitar blasting!
It's refreshing to see a manufacturer here.
@@GruntPa101 Thank you! It's always super interesting checkin' out what the players think, like, use!
And if needed, it'll be our pleasure to go down the rabbit hole of tech talking!
I literally came to the comments to mention the Jensen. Lol glad to see you provided solid details and your word.
I changed speaker in my cheap Line 6 15watt practice amp to Jensen C8R and change in sound its huuge. Maybe higain sound its not the best(it's old Line 6 so we must excuse this plastic sound) but the crunch its really agressive. This cheap speaker loves power so when i add volume nearly 12 o clock its "breaking" and shows power like there is booster in signal chain. Speaker its louder than "Custom" Line6 speaker, crisper and have something in tone thats for me it's "live". Thats my thoughts after changeing my speaker to Jensen. Good job all good people in Jensen, next speaker will be something more metal and modern than C8R also from Jensen.
I'm liking those Raptors.
I was never truly sold on Glenn's theory until I actually did the tests. My friends & I spent days in my warehouse changing out speakers in various sized cabs & playing at high volume. The results were exactly as Glenn had said. Older amps gained new versatility through this & newer ones sounded even better than the manufacturers intended. Yes, it was crazy expensive to do & yes, I have a place to do it where volume is not an issue, but as a player with decades of experience who has never been very experimental with my tones, it was an eye-opening experience & has led to me swapping speakers in a lot of my modern amps in order to get the most satisfying tones. Remember, when companies are cutting costs to keep an amp at a determined price point, skimping on the speaker is one of the first places they go. It's good to have your preconceived biases tested in many aspects of life this way so that you're not just spouting bullshit that you've 'seent' on the internet..
I swear to God, if they start putting glowing LED lights on speakers to make cabs look like gaming computers, guitar players will suddenly give a shit about it.
That's legit a cool idea for a stage prop or a studio mood setter :D
I can imagine having your cab glow lots of red will look so metal :D
@@Mr.Goldbar Saw a local punk band that had lights synced to the guitars in their cabs
@@TitaniusAnglesmith that should be adopted by a major arena band if you ask me :)
@@Mr.Goldbar I did this on my bass rig, not to the speakers tho, but the 19" 6U rack case and it looks really nice on stage. I ran a LED strip around the inside of the front opening and also to the back, which eliminates the need for a flashlight if some connection fixing needs to be done.
Revv cabs light up 🤣
I think a lot of guitarists used to disregard speakers because we had a misconception that speakers were supposed to be neutral in sound.
Actually yeah, that was sort of the implication wasn't it? Differing volumes and quality levels, sure, and perhaps some tailoring to the amp they're build for....
But basically just a conduit to present the sound of the amp, was frequently implied if not stated.
that is confusing high-fidelity home audio systems, which is supposed to be "faithful", with amplification, which is intended to add character/personality.
Which is kind of hilarious really, if you've ever heard what's going into a guitar speaker..
That was me. For some hair-brained reason, I wanted to hear the amp's tone and not the cab's, so I hauled around a 4x12 loaded with EVMs for years thinking it'd give me an "uncolored pure tone". Then I tried a 1960BV cab and realized how much better it sounded.
Then guitarists are still at fault for mistaking 'flat response' studio monitors and guitar speakers.
I mean just play a recorded song through a guitar speaker instead of a HiFi speaker or studio monitor, it sounds like absolute garbage.
I worked that s**t out when I was still in my teens!!! this is not difficult stuff.
Friend of mine has been telling me it’s the speaker for well over ten years, couldn’t understand why he had dozens of speakers everywhere in his house, until I decided to try out something to replace the 70/80 Speaker that came in my DSL20C. Amazing how much things changed in tone. Settled on a Creamback Neo. Huge difference in tone. And I’m not a metal player. Classic Rock, Blues, Country, and many odd 80’s cover tunes in my bar band. Learning speakers sound different depending on the amp type, cabinet size, and open/closed/ported cabinets opens a lot of possibilities for me. Appreciate what you’re bringing to the table here.
The Neo Creambacks are amazing!
What's always blown my mind - in my band - we work hard on our guitar sound, for live - so that the two rhythm guys complement each other, NOT cancel each other out - so after hours and hours of working on our tones to jive, live- we've ALSO discovered the speakers made all the difference. The funny part: when playing smaller venues - and other bands want to "share the back row" WITH OUR Cabinets... - then bitch when they've lost their sound - I just laugh and think of Glenn. He's right, no matter how hard some people don't want it to be true. hahaha..
You must be a very polite band ;)
Complement refers to something that completes something else, while compliment means a remark "especially in the form of admiration, esteem, or approval".
@kitko33 thanks for the English lesson. Fixed.
the whole guitar tone depends on a shit ton of things. Without any real experience i know that by simply being a fan of Dimebag Darrell, who had a huge amount of interviews, i think it is for a reason stated what amps he used, what strings he used, what effects he used, what kind of speakers, microphone And the microphone angle, as during a recording it all has an effect.
Complementing each others tones is a nice touch, i once wanted to make a rig with a doubler (again Dime influence), but a had 2 different amps (Randall Diavlo and Spark 40), so it was very hard to build a tone that would complement each other, so the use of 2 amps together sucked. This short story shows how difficult tone building is and it is even more difficult if we speak about 2 guitar players that would cumplement each other with their tones and at the same time, hopefully be somewhat different. Many people don't realise this "small" trick, which creates a huge difference in the result. Many great bands have this, out of my mind I can pick slayer, as kerry and jeff had slightly different tones, but not too much different, so they sounded amazing together. What is the name of your band? I would love to hear the way you sound? Also, where are you guys based, what country?
@@kitko33 RUclips should have a button for us to click when someone is super helpful, you know a "value add" type of person.
@nicolaemira5726 It was a tough one - both used 5150III's and the respective speaker cabs. Different guitars, different pedal set ups - Just a lot of similar frequencies. We messed with all the settings, in the end, it boiled down to one keeping their cabinet and the other switching to an oversize mesa - then we zeroed in on who carried the chunk and who carried the definition - by adjusting mids and bass levels. We don't have our bass player a lot, as he works out of town - but we still sound great, live. I have a couple clips on the youtube channel of some live play, this passed halloween and summer - and our album is on bandcamp - which can be found in my community post. (I can't put a link in a comment for some reason) But we're a bunch of older dudes that do this for the fun and the music. Based out of British Columbia Canada. Burn It All.
This video is incredible. So methodic, so informative, so objective - all the while being entertaining. This has been the pattern that has definitely taken shape over the last couple of years on this channel in my option. I am truly grateful for your work and have learned an immense amount from this channel. Absolutely stellar job - I don’t see any possible way this video could have been improved in any regard whatsoever. Just top notch work - well done and thank you!
I painted a Seymour Duncan logo on my cheap Amazon pick ups and my guitar tone looked so much better
😂😂
You probably wired them wrong and can't even tell.
I wrote EMG 81 on my Seymour Duncan JB, and now I can only play hardcore metal! 🤘
Thats very smart 😮
Great video dude, this is so unbelievably overlooked… I guess speakers just aren’t sexy enough.
Although I feel compelled to point out that Galileo died peacefully in his home and was not tortured to death.
Love you bro, see you at NAMM
This had to have taken a lot of time, patients and effort. Much appreciation from this viewer. Thanks, Glenn!
Patience
@@eyedunno8462 These are musicians we're talking about here. Either one works.
@@eyedunno8462 No actually the participants in the study were patients in a hospital for guitar players with carpal tunnel.
I feel bad for the patients.
Glenn, because of you I bought several Mojotone speakers and I can’t believe how they changed my sound! I can’t decide which I like best so I built a 2x12 cab with a BV25m and a BV30. I love the combination with my Orange Rockerverb 50. I mic both speakers and blend them. I still have my vintage 30 Orange 2x12 cab so I have many options now. I plan on ordering some other brands to try other combinations. My live sound is way more interesting now.
The worst thing to happen to metal players and players in general is guerrilla marketing tactics. People worry about spending too much time spending money instead of practicing and they wonder why they sound like ass? Here’s a hint: It’s not the amount of dollars you spent.
Gear should only be a tool to achieve your music ideas.
Tone is in the practice.
Yeah, but my guitar’s wood is super rare and you probably never heard it. Doesn’t that make my tone superior?
Guerrilla marketing not only affects metal players. The sheeple in general have fallen for the lies of Guerrilla marketing. As proven by the number of people that fell for the lies of the governments of the world and the pharmaceutical companies and lined up to get their jab. 🤷🏼♂️
@skratchrapture Speakers. It is in the speakers.
Lots of thoughts on this video. I was just getting into production during the golden hour/dusk of the Sneap forum. Andy Sneap was still posting on it. some random guy was doing free guest solos on records (who turned out to be Per Nilsson), Colin Richardson was sharing his GML8200 settings, Mark Lewis his 6505 settings and his parallel EQ chain on a Black Dahlia Murder recording. I also was learning from early modelers about tone, and specifically the GNX3000, and found myself gravitating towards two cab models called "Grnb412" and "Fane412". My first introduction to speakers being different.
The T75 can be really good, but it's very much a "fix in the mix" type of speaker from impressions reading forums and my experiences. One of the things I remember seeing on the Sneap forum was the Sm57/421 duct taped together, pointed right in the middle, and low passing the hell out of it. I believe I recall Andy doing impulses responses on the cab that he did Dead Heart In A Dead World with (I believe a 1960 with T75s)
The Sm57 is also a cliche in my opinion. Changing a mic can have a profound affect on the recorded tone. I don't think the Sm57 is the best mic for all speakers (for me, anyway). I really like the heil Pr20 on v30s for example, but hate it on Greenbacks.
Its a tough one between the WGS reaper and the Hesu demon, they both did something in the high end that I really liked.
That Reaper cuts like a sushi knife in a lead context, without any need for additional volume
Can confirm the WGS reaper goes hard
WGS Reaper was so good!
coming from a childhood filled with car audio, this is also hilarious because it was all about the drivers and enclosures, even optimizing driver parts and doing crazy stuff like doubling up spiders, dual wound voice coils, different pole piece designs, magnet swaps, playing with cone materials and surrounds, matching impedance, nerding out over Thiele/Small params, playing around in BassBox Pro, trying to optimize band pass and transmission line enclosures….
Guitar cabs and players seem to largely not care about any of this. Here’s a fun experiment: hook your hifi amp up to your guitar cab and see how music sounds through it. I’ll bet it sounds terrible. Sure; it’s not designed for that, but lots of guitar cab speakers sound like crap because they are. Guitar amps and pedals are not hifi in any way. Put a quality guitar preamp, or even better, go direct into a Hi-Z input on a $500+ preamp and run that out to some studio monitors. Compare that to your guitar amp tone. Maybe you like the sound of the amp and cab, but they’re not at all accurately amplifying the input signal. Not that I think anyone actually care about the opinion of some random internet guy who has zero albums under his belt and has never played in a band seriously, but I think Kempers through high-quality PAs sound better than almost any guitar amp head + cab I’ve heard…and swapping cab IRs is fun, easy, and cheap. Sounds kinda obvious but when you have an accurate and relatively flat way to amplify the signal and turn that into air movement, it’ll accurately amplify whatever you put in instead of distorting it in specific and probably bad ways, so you can change the sound upstream and have the physical electroacoustic output system change that as little as possible. Once you’re dealing with IRs, you can make it sound like anything, or sound like something that doesn’t / couldn’t exist in the real world. Instead, we’ve been thinking literally inside the box for far too long IMO.
One of the most important guitar recording videos, period. Between this, the cab irrelevance for close mic'ed heavy guitar, and the high degree of insignificance when it comes to pick up choice, you're killing it, Glenn! Great job, keep up the good work and keep up the best attempt at scientifically investigating claims! ❤
The Jensen was very snarly. Really liked that sound. Cool work..thanks Glenn!
The pioneer era of metal aka the 80s was a great time to be alive because "the metal sound" had yet to be discovered, and every band still had it's own unique sound.
Like metal isn't from the 60's.
very true. There were also more guitar players and less resources, so experimentation in volume was a natural result to stir the pot up.
@@flacidhouse350 metal is not from the 60s, what a weird thing to say.
@@mat.b. Well it's something people who know what they are talking about would say. Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple. Get a clue kid.
@@flacidhouse350 literally no one would say that. You can't just list 70s rock bands and pretend you have a clue. 🫴✨
So, it’s not that you’re saying that pickups, preamps, effects etc *don’t* affect the tone, but that speakers can have just as much effect, if not more when taking everything into account. My question then would be, how to you decide on new speakers without buying a bunch to shoot them out yourself? Any tips/advice on that?
I’m asking in earnest as I have a JCM 900 B cab that I bought second hand but only has two speakers and I need to get two more (I don’t remember what’s in there, been a while since I had the back off to look at them)
Hi Glenn, how did you preserve the exact same mic position after the speaker swap? I think backloading would be better for this purpose. Or did you remove the cab entirely, and after the swap, you placed the bottom to the exact spot? The position and the distance of the mic to the speaker are some of the variables that should also be fixed, cause an inch shift can change the sound quite noticeably.
This!
I'm so glad to hear your opinion on the V30. Because I've hated the V30 since I've ever heard it! It's bright and harsh to my ears. Can't stand it.
What I DID fall in love with, is actually the Mesa Black Shadow Custom 90 by Celestion. Much smoother and doesn't wear my ears out. I special ordered a Mesa Trad Slant with those C90s and love it. Curious to know if you've ever used one and your opinion? I'd love to get a mic specifically matched for that speaker if you have any opinion on it. Thanks! 👍🏻🤘🏻
All of them sounded great!
There's something so right about the Mojotones that made me prefer it over the others. The Jensens had some annoying frequency I can't really tell, and the rest of them sounded very similar. I would love to see them compared to the more popular Celestions just as a reference point, if someone prefers the V30s over all of these more power to them, at least they're informed :)
The mojotone greyhound speakers sound sick. SO do some of the WGS speakers like the Veteran & Retro 30.
I agree, the Mojotones really had an excellent sound to them. I also liked the Celestions quite a bit. Mojotone is an extremely underrated company imho - their pickups are incredible too. I even prefer them over the excellent Lollars and Fralins I've had, when it comes to clean tones.
Its that possible to blend 2 speaker in one cab? I really love hesu tone and mojo beef and it's practical to bring it live with 2 speaker on 1 cab?
Yeah you can definitely use two different speakers in the same Cab. It's very common to use 2 each of a given speaker type in 4x12 cab
thank you so much, might try it later this month @@nebben01 🔥
I have a 2x12 that used to have a V30 and a Lynchback, mic'd with a SM57 and a ES906.
Got a pretty individual sound.
Swapped out the V30 with a Greenback, lucky enough to find a guy that wanted a V30 and had a Greenback and it sound pretty cool imo.
Also made mixing a little easier, as I wasn't fighting the top end from the V30.
I love the sound of the lynchback, but they’re so hard to find, now.
I'm just a hobby musician (loving prog metal, djent ...) but I strongly support the notion that cabs and speakers make a significant difference with regard to the outcome at the end of the signal chain. If I had to make a ranking I would say 1st Amp, 2nd speakers/cabs und 3rd guitar. Currently I'm using - among others - four different cabs with V30 speakers (Diezel 2x12, Diezel 4x12, Mesa Road King and Harley Benton 2x12). The differences between them are remarkable, but not in the sense of better or worse. They are just different. The cheap Harley Benton for example excels (IMHO) when bringing slightly distorted tones to shine.
Adding a Vintage 30 in the sound test would have made it complete and once and for all let people hear the differences to this popular speaker.
Great video! One remark though on the front loading cabinet if I may. A lot of speakers have foam or other isolation material on the front. When you use those in a front loading cabinet, you should put some isolation material on the back between the speaker and the baffle. Otherwise you'll have the metal rim of the speaker vibrating directly against the wood of the baffle without some kind of buffer.
I tend to go with a brighter speaker, like the greenback or cream back. I don't play modern metal, but do play a lot of 70's-90's metal. The amps I use tend to have more mids, as opposed to modern metal players using less mids and compensating with the vintage 30 mid hump.
Ever tried Jensen? For me, the two Jensen speakers I bought were the best gear purchases I ever made.
The V30 is way brighter than the creamback. The v30 accentuates the upper mids where the greenback / creamback starts to roll off
In fact, a speaker cab also NEEDS to be calculated for each speaker using the Thiele-Small parameters.
I communicated with Ignazio, the Jensen chief engineer... The Raptor's idea is to have something similar to the EVM12L without the 8.5kg weight per speaker.
I absolutely LOVE my EVM12Ls, I just can play ANYTHING, no matter the style, with these speakers, using the twin-EQ trick with my amp...
The only thing they can't dig in are alnico speakers which behave totally differently... If these were easily available, I'd go for the EVM12SRO which is similar with an alnico magnet... or its parent speaker, the Altec417 w. cardboard dustcap... I considered the Weber Michigan12 Alnico w. the large dustcap option BUT they discontinued the alnico version, anyway, a Weber alnico speaker is INSANELY expensive in Europe.
Sincethese are really unobtainium, well, I went for the Jensen Blackbird100 and the WGS Blackhawk100, both being conceived as alternatives to the SRO and the 417... And they're really great... Since I'm getting involved with a new band, I'm considering using either the Jensen Raptor100 or the Tornado Special Edition : all are based on the same speaker, the Raptor100 is the ferrite version, the Bluebird100 is the alnico version and the Tornado100 SE is the neodynium version and I'm not that young, my back is F-up so I'd prfere not having to carry my Thieles with the EVM12Ls.
Speakers I use at the studio:
Electrovoice EVM12L
Jensen Blackbird100
WGS Blackhawk100
Audax F30PA12
JBL E120
Weber California12
Celestion Greenback
Celestion Gold Alnico (replaced the Greenback in a Vox AC-15)
Jensen P12R alnico
Unidentified "Fender" speaker from the Champ12
Beyma 15MI100 "mk1" (30-4000Hz version) for bass amps
Electrovoice EVM18 for bass amps
Electrovoice EVM10B for bass amps
Speakers I dumped:
Celestion V30 aka "icepick in the ear"
Celestion G12T75
Celestion G12M70
Eminence Wizard (sounds nice, similar to the G12H, but lacks definition, nice if you want to make a concert amp from a 15W : it's as loud as a 4x12 loaded with Greenbacks or G12-65)
Hey Glenn. Have you ever considered releasing IR's for all these different speakers? I know that myself and a lot of other guitarists would love to have access to these types of speakers for plugins and modellers
second this, I'd fork up some cash for that!
Thank you for the demo of the band playing with different speakers. I'm interested in trying out which ones I'll like the most. I only wish the clip was longer with more of the rhythm comparisons
I put an eminence Texas heat in my Peavey bandit red stripe. Man I love that sound. I get compliments on my playing through that amp all the time. Phenomenal. Thanks Glenn for the hard work you do. I wish guitar players would just say 'I bought it because I wanted it.' Then we could all get on with our lives.
Has to sound fudging amazeballs..I'm a Peavey guy I have a few silver stripes. Ultra and bandit..KILLER
When do guitar players say I bought it cuz I "didn't" want it?? tf?
GLEEEENNNNN!!!!!! I know I'm late to the party, but I just recently decided to get new speakers in my cab. I have a Peavey Triple X. I don't know much of anything about wattage and ohms. Was really interested in mixing speakers in my 4x12. How does it work if per say I chose to go with 2 HESU Demons and 2 WGS Reapers? They both have different watt counts. Afraid of my lack of knowledge here. Would love some advise here before I make my decision. Love the show and hope you keep prospering.
since your early videos about the speakers and the good replacements for the V30, I have installed a Hesu Demon in my 1x12 Mesa Cab (Cab from 2012 - I think the version you categorised as bad) early last year. Best decision ever! the sound difference is just incredible! Thanks again for all the videos you do to inform us even if it goes against some hard beliefs we have regarding tonewood, speakers, pickups etc.!
Glenn! This was a great video to show the differences between some great speakers, but can we ever hope to see some 10" speakers? I've heard some of the stoner bands have gotten their tones by using a Fender DeVille 4x10 combo. I got my hands on a pair of old Marshall 1965 4x10 cabs, and for us old farts it's nice to have a smaller, lighter cabinet whether we're lugging our gear to a gig or moving stuff around in the studio. I'm also thinking that adding in 10" speakers will just be more colors in our palette. Back in June I caught Yob's show in Boston and walked up to Mike Scheidt after their set and said, "What, no more Monson guitars?" because he was playing a Dunable Gnarwhal that night, and he said, "Why limit yourself to the 8 pack of Crayolas when you can have the 64 pack?"
Hi Glenn,
This is a long one, so strap in 👀
A quick crash course in T-75 history, it's worth noting that they've had several iterations that all sound different, like the V30 (original Marshall Vintage, made-in-UK "Mesa" V30, and the 2004+ made-in-China) the sound of the T-75s over the years has changed, around the same times as the V30.
Essentially there are 3 main variants of the T-75:
- The original 80s JCM800 spec, well loved and had the plain "white" label (some had vented magnets but this arguably doesn't affect anything)
- JCM900 spec, the first with the white+black stripe label, made in the UK, far less popular than the original. This was the variant Kristian Kohle used in his scathing video on the T-75
- Current production made in China. Even more gravelly and obnoxious sounding
A while ago I picked up a white label version from the 80s and I'm using it in my 1x12 DSL at the moment. It sounds so much better than the modern made version, and works well with mid-strong Marshall tone stack. Obviously it's a Celestion from the 80s so it's a bit thinner than the V30 and the Green/Creambacks and needs to be treated differently.
If you're going after classic 80s T-75 tones, it's definitely worth looking for an old one. If you really can't find one, the Eminence Man-O-War is meant to be based on the original T-75, or G12-65/Classic Lead 80 will be the closest things within the current Celestion family, and sound good in their own right.
I also found a recording someone made that showing the differences between the old/new:
ruclips.net/video/yeBu08KT2QY/видео.html
Hope this helps, and good luck in the eternal quest for tone!
@@Danielrguitar92 yeah I agree they're not as dreadful as their popular opinion, though they are quite hard to tame.
The next step on from "tone is in the speaker" is understanding what tones are in what speakers, and how to get the best out of each. Most reviews and comparisons I see where people bash speakers is when "Speaker X" is treated identically to a reference V30, and then being disappointed that they don't sound better than a V30, without stopping to think what else it brings to the table, or if an EVH/Recto (EQd for a V30) boosted with an SD1, and an SM57 square on the cap might not be the perfect compliment for everything.
For people in a creative industry, musicians sure lack creativity when it comes to their way of working
I worked for Celestion USA back in the early 90s. We sold a lot of Vintage 30s even then. I found two things make a big difference in a speaker's sound. The first was the size of the magnet, the more gauss in the gap the stronger your motor. The other was the cabinet, IIRC Vintage 30s were a good combo speaker (open back cabinet), but Greenbacks were better in a 4 x 12. It may be all different now. I just know that when I replaced the G12T-75 in my Marshall combo with a Classic Lead 80 (56 oz magnet vs 36 oz) I suddenly had an amp the had warmth and bottom. I haven't worked for Celestion in 30 years, so no dog in this fight. By all means try the Jensen or Eminence or whatever.
Thanks for sharing!!
Episode idea. I think this would be useful us metal heads.
Which pick ups rejects the most noise under high gain?
This is a sick idea dude
Actives.
My guess is actives and particularly Fishmans, as they're a PCB design instead of copper wire.
EMGs are also a guess of mine, as they're so quiet you don't even need to ground them
@@Mr.Goldbar My guess would have been EMG's as well. I have them in two of my telecasters that I use for metal. They are quiet but not completely quiet. Glenn has convinced me there is no real tonal difference between pick ups under high gain application. What we all fight though is noise. Is there a pick up out there that reigns supreme in combating noise? Might be a useful test. I'd do it myself but I do not have the resources, time, or frankly needed skills to be swapping an array of pick ups.
Lace Alumitones are almost zero noise as well.
The difference in compression from the Jensen is fascinating.
In this mix the hesu demon seemed super balanced and open on the top end. Also really liked the dv77 quite a bit. Would be cool to see it against the v30
I learned that the speakers make all the difference for any audio back in the '70 when building my first component stereo system. Risley Audio had a wall of all the speakers they sold in their sound room, Klipsk (sp?) through JBL's, and would put on ELP Trilogy's, From The Beginning and switch between speakers. The difference was amazing!
There is a reason Studio Monitors are used in studios, accurate reproduction.
Frank Zappa even went to the extreme to mix one of his albums using the most commonly sold speakers of the day, one of JBL's. But of course with the compression inherent in Vynal records it failed to reproduce accurately.
Great Video!
I remember those walls. It was like the only time it was ok to go around pushing all the red buttons. Push the button, sample the speaker.
This concept was everywhere by the 1990s. Now it's gone.
As someone who uses DV77’s live and in recording for my band, I completely agree. Now I’m thinking of getting a couple of those HESU Demons to pair with the DV77’s. Great video Glenn! Keep up the good work! It’s much appreciated!!
After I bought my very first tube amp I had to find a cab for it. I came across a 212 with WGS Reaper HP's (as it turned out much later) without knowing anything about speakers and all the stuff. Friend of mine told me "It's not vintage 30's but sounds good". I nodded as if I understood what he was all about. So I plugged in and strummed a couple of chords and thought to myself "well, thats heeeeeeeeeeaaaaavyyyy" - and bought it. I 've changed quite a bit of amps, but that cab is still with me and I am more than happy with what it does all these years. And even in the video I liked wgs more than the others. Lucky me, I guess =) Anyway, thank you Glenn for what you are doing. Wish your videos were available years ago when I was a newbie )) In the very beginning due to lack of experience we tend to make mistakes and lose time and money chasing stupid phathoms. Now with your videos it has become much harder to. Well, provided that you are not a complete moron
As a strict guitarist who never bought into the hype of pickups and tone wood , your videos have bright me joy and new areas to look into with buying gear. Than you good sir.
Great demonstration and a point well made. Thank you Glen. However…
may I ask you to do it all over again in order to demonstrate compliance/resonance vs damping. I suspect this will have an even bigger influence on the way a guitarist performs than frequency response does. Some speakers feel spongy (or one might say “smooth”) because of poor damping, and others feel more responsive, because of better transient response (I suppose this could be described as the mechanical equivalent of slew rate). It’s a more difficult thing to objectively test for, but I’m sure your up for the task.
Damn really liked that fat snare sound :) To me the combination of sounds from all sources is where it's at. Doesn't matter if your guitarsound is the greatest ever if your drums sounds dull or the bassplayer plays crappy you are out of luck. Now I would point out that I'm a live sound engineer and as such I usually have to take into account whether it's a large stage compared to a club gig. But it boils down to the ability of the musicians to recognize the different scenarios and set the sound of their own gear accordingly. A full blast 100Watts amp in a small club will only make life HELL for everyone involved except the mindless guitarist. I could go on forever about this but you get the point.
So I have a Hesu 2 x 12 cab with the Demon speakers fitted as you’d expect and that lives in my home studio. For band rehearsal and live a have a Peavey Valveking 4 x 12 (cost me £21) with whatever standard speaker it comes with and never really thought about the difference as the volume used in each environment is so different I didn’t really notice a difference. Until I brought my Hesu to band rehearsal! Oh wow, the whole band noticed the difference in sound. I’m now going to swap out at least two of the Peavy speakers for Hesu Demons! Awesome video Glen!!!
My guitarist swears by Jensen. He wants nothung to do with Celestions because "everyone else" uses them.
Watch the video. Let me know what you think of the Jensens
I’ve got a Jensen Tornado Stealth 65, and love it. The neodymium magnets make it so much lighter, as well; the V30 I’ve got next to it feels twice as heavy, and not in the musical way.
@@SpectreSoundStudios Why ask me? As you can see, I'm a bassist, so Rule #2 applies.
lol
I'm all over the Jensen speakers. I am considering checking them out as an addition to my rig. I don't really know too much about these things as I go to the shop with my head and play through whatever bass cabs they have. If there's one I REALLY like, I get it home to A/B against my curent.
Could you do a bass speaker shoot? I've been using, pretty much the same rig for about 9 years, now and would like to hear what's out there without spending $200 a pop.
Even within the celestion brand there are so many different colors of speaker sounds. I have many amps and many speakers, there is no best speaker for guitar.
Many weeks ago I said that metal tones are now all the same, no one listened to me. Now you do a video on it. I can even hear the difference on my crappy TV speakers and on headphones it's massive.
Glenn, recently David Maxim Micic made a video explaining why speakers matters the most in a guitar tone. Perhaps you can collab with him or make some references to his video? Maybe then other guitar players will be much more open minded to accept this truth when they hear it straight from a very talented guitarist.
Big fan of DMM and thought that video he did on speakers was absolutely fabulous. Definitely made me think of Glenn and his quest as well to show how speakers are the true tone shifters. A collab would be absolutely amazing to see!!
@@happycadaver His demos, explanations and examples with the closed vs open backed cabs were brilliant. I do believe a lot of people will change their mind if they hear it straight from any musicians that they respect. Glenn is Glenn and people who refuse to accept him as a great audio engineer will never listen to his advice. Having someone like DMM onboard should help.
DMM is one of these modern progressive players many bedroom guitarists like, I'm curious to see how him and Glenn will vibe together :D
Hey Glenn, thank for this great test.
I`m about to buy the HB V30 vertical Cab, which you recommend too. It`s more affordable than an empty Cab and buy other speakers at the moment.
As you show in another clip and also mentioned in this one: how big is the influence of
A: Mic Position
B: Which Mic
Maybe that is also an interesting test. Wich sounds you can get from an V30 with diffenent Mics and different positions compared to the common V30-SM57 Combo.
I have an Axe-FX (I'm one of those, Glenn, 😉) and I once looped a riff and cycled it through all the amp models and then all the IR's. The latter by far gave me the greatest changes in tone. I'd say get a large selections of IR's, loop a riff and see which IR you like best, and then try the corresponding speaker.
GENIUS!!
That is actually exactly how I discovered that I am a really big fan of the Celestion Creamback. By far my favorite Celestion, with the Greenback being an almost close second.
Greetings Glen, apologies of you've answered this before but I want to buy a new solid state combo amp in the near future. My current setup is an old Laney tube fusion head (solid state) on top of a fender 2×12 (idk what speakers) and a line 6 pod xt pro. I like to just use a nice quality clean amp and leaving the distortion to the line 6 unit since it has all the effects. Obviously I'm not trying to blow unnecessary cash on some hyped up tube combo and I'm not concerned about the amps ability itself to create good metal distortion. Thanks Glen and happy turkey day 💪⚕🔱
5 of my favorite speakers ever. And tbh I think a lot of people are experimenting with more than V30s, as I’m in a shit ton of groups and a lot of people are experimenting with DV77s and I love it. I also blame Kristian Kohle for that hahaha
BTW that mix sounds incredible!
Switched to a dv77 impulse as my main a few years ago and i love it. And yeah, i found out about this speaker from him )
but did you mount the speakers with compensated tone screws using a properly calibrated pressure gauge? hmmm???
seriously though, from this shootout my favorites were the Hesu and WGS
To what end?
@@SpectreSoundStudios you need to use NEUTRAL screws to prevent unwanted harmonics and tone colorations. NO BRASS!! Also, over/under tightened screws will apply uneven pressure causing misalignment issues and transient divergences across the conic substrate, which will give you FLUBBY BASS RESPONSE
The amount of work Glen puts in his videos tho 😯😍
saying the speakers don't make a difference is basically on the same level as stating the earth is flat. this is probably THE most instant effect on your sound with mic placement.
Much more noticeable difference than pickups make. I liked the DV-77 the best.
When it went to the Hesu Demon, I recognized some of Ola's tone.
I have some vintage 30s. Just bought an old Peavey Butcher. Owner made me take the original 4x12 cab with it. I opened it up. It has G12-k85's 16ohms. Gotta say I think I like these more. Gonna start hoarding this unwanted workhorse. Also in the deal I obtained some 71 Eminence black dots. Gotta say these sound amazing also. I think I'm done with Vintage 30's. I've tried creambacks and the new hype DV-77's. They are great but there is something about the k85's. I feel like they are getting summed at a closer range and feel like they are somehow louder but pushing more air?? Gonna try some tests today with SM57's, 121's, U87, 421 to try to identify the acoustic shadows as per the Steve Albini method.
Speaking of speakers, I've just acquired a pair of Kali LP-8s to replace my smaller KRK Rokits. I also learned the very basics of REW and found a couple of resonances in my room, managed to tame them a bit and wow does everything sound so clear 3D now. The separation of sounds is something I've yet to have worked with and I can actually hear the changes I'm making to my mixes!
Absolutely love your work, Glenn. Quick question for you as I value your opinion on such a topic the most- I know this video was specifically for speakers that AREN'T Celestion, but I was curious what your thoughts were on other Celestion products? I know Iommi used seventy 80s at one point, Kirk Hammet has a signature Randall cab with rocket 50s I believe, and I really enjoy the sound of my Kustom q412a which came factory-loaded with celestion super 65s. After seeing this video I'm extremely tempted to swap the speakers in my Randall RG412 to Jensen Raptors. The factory speakers sound fine, but "fine" isn't good enough. Please keep up the awesome content! 🤘
Several years back, I purchased a $90 Vox VR15 (obviously NOT metal, but I use it pretty much wide open) and promptly blew the 8" Jensen that came in it. I don't like anything of mine to be like other guitarist, so I decided to pull the head out of the amp and build my own cab to house the head a new 12" speaker with a higher wattage handling. A buddy brought over several speakers, including Celestions Green Back and Vin 30, a very old Peavey Scorpion (if memory serves). I had a Carvin 10" (sounded a lot different and pretty cool!), an Eminence The Governor, and another 12" that escapes me now. I was playing my '95 Strat (single coils) and the differences were HUGE! At one point, I told him that I was listening with my eyes and asked if he would swap the speakers without me seeing what I was playing. We did that and I settled on the Eminence, hands down. Speakers are EVERYTHING! Thanks for your channel, I've learned a lot!
GLLLEEEENNN!!! Still always lovin your content brother!! I'll just say right out, I've always used my cab and speakers for TONE and pickups to give me different responses with that tone. Being a tech for over 15 years has taught me one thing, THE PRACTICE AMP I ALWAYS TEST MY WORK WITH ALWAYS SOUNDS THE SAME PEOPLE!! When changing out pickups, shit tons of metal rigs, I have learned that the same amp always had the same tone but the response, like achieving squeals and chugs easier from the different RESPONSES of the pickups, was what would change on the guitar. Getting more or less high or low end "response" out of the pickup is the height of the poles to the strings changing how the pickups respond to the waves of the strings at different levels. This is compared to the poles acting like a mic in front of a speaker cab, different distance and angle will pickup the "same" waves the strings are producing while reacting to different areas of the waves at different positions. And I'm sorry to all the "tone wood" lovers out there, but a Duncan SH-1 "59 Model" pickup sounds exactly the same in an Epiphone as it does a Gibson......
Hey @SpectreSoundStudios, can you review the L6 PowerCab?
If you’re not familiar (I doubt it ☺️), they essentially a powered cabinet that tries to simulate specific speakers, not the sound of a mic’ed speaker in a room through an FRFR. (It technically _is_ an FRFR as well, but I’m trying not to focus on that.)
For those of us who don’t have the access to multiple types of speakers, I wonder if these are a good option for a “cab in a room” sound as well as recording.
Cheers from SoCal!
Thank you for all the explanations!
I like Jensen approach.
They have samples that are being re-recorded with each speaker.
Hence, you can check out how same signal sounds via all the speakers.
I am typical "playing at home" enthusiast. I ended up with ENGL Ironball with custom cabinet with Jensen C12R. It surprisingly doing well with hi-gain. There is no that harsh sipping of V30.
The next project is even more conscious choice of a speaker. IRs are there, so everybody can choose what sounds better to them with real amp. Ironball SE is game-changer here, since you can just upload IRs to the amp without spending a lot of time in a laptop.
Appreciate the UHF clip-ins. Lol
How do you feel about the IR world for those who are almost exclusively tied to the modeling world, Ala Fractal and the like?
Do you have any IRs you are making in house to offer that show off these speaker options? 😃👍
I think there is room for compromise. We agree pickups affect clean tone, right? The biggest difference being single coil vs humbucker and if it's the cheapest crap ever made or something decent, be it brand or stuff like Irongear or GFS.
Secondly we can agree that with the type of tone you prefer, extremely high gain, MT-2, hard clipping, "chuggable", it's barely noticable if at all and certainly pickibg one out in a blind test will yield results identical to guesses.
But where do the two meet? Does soft clipping let more of the pickups sound through?
The tone I like is an amp with master volume on max and pre-amp volume low (used to control loudness), gain 5, mids and treble high, tubescreamer up front, tone set bright for dark guitars and a little lower for bright guitars (PAFs and singles), level on max, gain 5-7 with some PAF style pickups, EQ in the loop, to get rid of any undesirableness, my amp is fizzy, so the top band is on almost zero. I hope to solve that by a speaker change from G12T100 to G12M65. But for now it's ok.
So that yields kind of an Yngwie type tone, not exactly but more of a high gain blues sound, that kinda sounds "clean". No fizz, no "kshhhh" type sounds we all know and love (MT2 cranked). Just the tone itself with a lot of overdrive. Enough that you could chugg but a gentle, 80s cranked Plexi chugg, not a Spider 2 on Insane chugg.
I at least seem to hallucinate that with this in essence part clean part overdriven, harmonic rich tone akin to Clapton, Hendrix, but Yngwie gain, that pickups do make a difference. Massive? Not unless it's a massive change like EMG 81 to P90. If you can't hear that difference with that tone your ears are broken:). But enough to be noticeable. Even adjusted for output by rolling back leven on the screamer my 500T equipped Flying V sounds completely different than my cheapo PAF equipped V and both sound quite different from my overwound PAF Les Paul style and the active PAF Les Paul (those are similar though).
Amd P90s also sound substantially different. Like P90... As do the single coils in a strat and mine are stacked humbuckers and noiseless, so no hum.
In simple terms if overdrives push an amp pickups in my opinion can ve differentiated as long as the gain is not ridiculously high.
With a distortion pedal, hard clipping stuff, and all gain fully cranked for more of a Children of Bodom sound than Judas Priest in Sad Wings of Destiny, then pickups don't really matter. Certainly not humbuckers, they can't be differentiated by human ear and single coils likely only being different in noise (gain adjusted to match output).
I think it depends how many harmonics that give a note it's character making a trumpet sound different playing a 440 hz a vs a piano, get through the signal chain and out of the speaker.
And I am for sure not saying Seymour Duncan PAFs and DiMarzio sound much different. But the categories of pickups can be differentiated in surprisingly high gain scenarios.
Plexi + Tubescreamer. Very transparent sound. I think a Strat sounds different to a Les Paul (PAF) through that setup.
You may slap me now and ridicule my stupid guitarist brain. I mean my SM57 is mounted with a mic holder zip tied to a wooden rod, jammed into a drawar of the little shelf type thingy my amp sits on.
So that's the type of of person I am. Also the Harley Benton with EMGs sounds as good as my 1 grand LTD. But a little different. One has 59/JB the other active PAF. Even output adjusted. I think I prefer the HB... but both from the Cort factory in Indonesia and gorgeous. And when I got the LTD, HB was not around yet. Incredible how good these cheap guitars sound and feel. Especially with good pickups. (The veneer does dampen the high end a bit over the pure mapletop though. Jk jk).
Kinda makes me wonder how good the Raptor would be using the fredman technique?
A very informative video. Thank you for taking the time to conduct all the tests.
Why not go with an amp/cabinet/speaker setup that is flat through its range and color the sound with an EQ?
As someone who plays a digital rig (helix) this is all so obvious. Changing your IRs is a massive change. More dudes need to sit down and at least play with a digital set up and actually demo some of this gear, at least virtually before forming opinions, because vast majority of guitarists simply parrot bullshit they read online.
I built a new Marshall mg412 empty cabinet and filled it with 2 Eminence dv-77 and 2 Celestion vintage 30's and insulated the back panel lightly. I'm 46 y/o and have owned at least 50 different Cabs in my life easily. My current setup is IT for me. I have a PRS Archon 50 mk2 head and and run a Pepers Dirty Tree and I have never had a better sound in my career. Never. From Metallica (old and new) to Pantera to Tool, it does it all. A big change I made is installing an EMG 57 in the bridge of my Schecter Hellraiser. My search for versatility and robust hard, razor sharp sound is done. Now maybe I can enjoy playing.....lol. Awesome Channel!!
I built a few 1x12 cabinets with removable grills and t-nuts for the speaker screws so a speaker swap only take about 5 minutes and can be done repeatedly. I'm not sure if every speaker brand uses the same screw patterns, but Celestion and Eminence do. I prefer Eminence mainly because I got sick of Vintage 30's which made me hate Celestion. But, within a quick 10 minutes you can mix and match speakers for an infinite number of combinations. And you can go on RUclips and watch/hear people demo all of these speakers.
Oh, and the sound guy at the local club that mics the 4x12 cabinet on the bottom corner speaker. Yeah, I've got two different speakers in the cabinet. So now just show up with one 1x12 cabinet with the preferred speaker for the gig and just mic the 1x12 into the PA. Hell of a lot better than lugging that 4x12 around. I get the sound I want, don't have to lug a bunch of gear and the guy running the board's life is just a tad bit easier and the band is generally happier that the volume knob is not controlled by the guitar player.
Ppl will mod their amps and roll tubes, but the biggest mod you can do is swap out to a different speaker 🔈
Thought most ppl already knew what a huge difference speakers make, not only in tonal characteristics (eg a Celestian Greenback sounds way different to a Vintage 30 or even an Alnico blue) but also SPL.
A speaker’s sensitivity rating is also a factor. Again, comparing say a Vintage 30 to an EV will be huge.
Thanks Glenn for making this video 😊
I once experimented with a P-bass, MXR compressor, an un-modded 1971 Fender Champ, and a few different 8" speakers. For the purposes of the test, all knobs were set to 10, and the test took place in an old Amish barn. The EV 8" dual cone (can't remember the model) was the only one that could handle the beating and it.just.sang, it was glorious!
This makes me very interested in the WGS Reaper, I love that sound. I'm curious how much of a difference it makes which amp is pushing it as far as dynamic range to adjust. I'm running an ENGL Ironball that I love through a V30 but it's kind of thin and tinny compared to the 5150 I used to run through it. The waxy sound of an ENGL does good things for my tingle factor but worried about marking it even more thin (in the midrange, we all should know and love the typical ENGL beef).
Thanks for this video Glen I’m using Peavey Black Widows atm and I guarantee no else is so it’ll be neat to see what happens when I record with them.
Glenn, I missed the part where you explain that guitar speakers are sound producers, not reproducers. The way they are driven, i.e. level & attack, introduces dynamic harmonics that form the "colour" of the sound. Just like how picking & strumming changes the tone depending on how hard & where you pluck the string. So, the musicians who really gets to know their setup & how to pull the sounds they want have the advantage.
Also, a single frequency response at some nominal 95dB at some distance to compare drivers just gives a snapshot from a single perspective in the frequency domain. And that assumes that your measurement setup is truly reproducible. Have a look at the waterfall plots available in REW to get a sense of how frequencies ring over time.
Thanks & keep up the great vids & supporting the Kali guys.
Very cool video. I wouldn't mind also hearing a comparison of how those speakers sound with a bit cleaner tones, though I understand this is not the focus of this channel.
With many (most?) guitarists these days recording with cab sims, experimenting with speakers has become much easier and I would hope this will eventually lead to more varied tones. My personal discovery made thanks to the cab sims has been that if it's the midrange of the Vintage 30 that you are after, but you don't want the typical V30 tone, then 10 inch speakers can be a very interesting alternative.
Ugh, Glen, between this video, the one you did on cabinet geometry and materials, and the several you've done on pickups, I have tried so hard to get my friends to consider what you've proposed. I think perhaps since we're all in our late 40's/early 50's, they're still committed to getting the big name stuff, however (read: Fender Strat, Les Paul, Marshall with Celestions, etc.). Hopefully, after I send this vid to them, they'll begin to pay attention a bit more. And the irony is? I'm a bass player. Haven't dragged my knuckles since the late 90's 🙂
I remember the the speaker cab shootout from years ago. I was blown away by how massively different the sounds were. Rick Beato did pretty much the same thing but with heads but with the same cab. Again I was surprised by how subtle the difference was (there was a difference but compared to changing cabs....).
Glenn! Video idea: 2x12 with 2 different speakers, use your interface trick to blend them on the board. I would be curious to see the tom mic/57 method and fredman (typo?) Technique and swap the mics on the speakers to show how much of a difference you can have with 2 different speakers and 2 different mics. I started building a recording setup this summer consisting of lp6v2's, a uphoria 4c mixer, and a samson cs mic i nabbed back when you made that video. I need a d2, a d6, lewitt overheads and an euro mixer to complete it. Basically all the bang for your buck stuff you've featured over the yrs. The end goal being able to record guitar, bass, and drums using the glyn jons technique for as cheaply as possible. Maybe that was 2 video ideas for ya...would love to see it.
My senior year in college was right at the time the PMRC got warning stickers put on albums (I did a speech against it) just to put a time perspective on it (about 1985/early 1986). I remember the professor at that time repeating many times that for any sound reproduction scenario, concentrating on hi fidelity stereo systems, the speakers were the most important part of the sound. The speakers would determine what you were hearing. If you had the top of the line turntable/tape amplifier, etc., but had cheap speakers, it would not sound good. Basically this same argument but for stereos almost 40 years ago.
Thanks Glenn, great video! Totally guilty of expecting pickups to add the secret sauce to my sound but my ears were opened when I didn't take my own cab (Vintage 30 and Creamback 75H loaded) and I used the house cab in a rehearsal space we rented....totally different. was a beaten up Marshall 4x12 fuck knows what it was loaded with but it sounded mega. For all I know it could have been loaded with G12's/greenbacks/something else. Using a different cabinet and speaker does change your sound way more than a pickup swap ever would...I liked the Jenson speaker in this video.
This is great! This lets me know that my 10 year quest to get the tone I got from a borrowed cab at a gig, was not in vein! Turns out, it was the speaker NO ONE wanted to suggest to me, as most people dismiss it, and hate it, due to it's top end roll off. The Celestion G12M-70. The Vintage 30 is awesome, but it's not everything. Anyone that has used a V30, and recored with one, knows the mid range "shelf" they have, that you need to turn your amp up louder, to get over. And sometimes that "shelf" can just get annoying over time. Thanks for the recording of some other speakers to check out!
What about the frequency response of the microphones?
Have you considered the effect of the cabinet volume on the speaker in the enclosure?
The rest of your results are great.
Of course, the same could be said for using the same IRs as they have less variance than a physical speaker in a room. Remove the variables and everything sounds the same.
When I was recording a cabinet in a decent size room with a room mic [classic rock formula, 57 close, 87 back] I would key gate the room mic from the close mic to control room reverb, back when we actually had decent size and well treated recording rooms. [I usually used a Kepex, how many remember those?] Obviously, this technique will not be very effective in most of the garage, bedroom and basement spaces used these daze.
Could some of the difference between room sound and recorded sound have to do with the mic being right on the speaker- and our ears being in the room- away from the speaker? Would mixing in a second mic- a room mic- give a more natural sound?
WE are getting the cab sounds, and the room sounds too.
I had a similar experience when trying out a combo in the store, vs what it sounded like when I brought it home. I'd forgotten the fact that Guitar Center had the amp in a shelving unit. It's an open back cab, so all the bass and sound coming from the back was redirected right back at me. Moving it closer to a wall or in a closet made that sound re=appear.
@spectresoundstudios have you guys tried any 15 like Celestion Fullback? I know there’s are a few others floating out there, but I was curious whats your take on 15s? 🤘🤘
It’s worth mentioning that I was convinced to not upgrade the speakers in my Fender Champion 100W modeling amp after reading forum post after forum post about how speakers will not improve the sound and how I should just buy a “better amp”. While I have yet to install new speakers in my amp, I do now regret listening to guitarists’ advice on audio engineering and not an audio engineer’s…
Any recommendations for a higher quality set of speakers suited for a modeling amp? I was looking at neodymium speakers for the sake of saving weight as this amp is rather hefty even though it’s solid state.
Thanks for all the work, Glenn!!!
How loud is loud enough? I’d think that turning up as much as you would to hear yourself with a full band should work, after all that’s the sound that works in the moment. But because of how much I’ve heard about cranking amps I’ve tended to track guitars much louder… as loud as I can possibly stand. I feel like that didn’t actually help anything and I may approach the next session at real world volume. Amp is a Mesa Stiletto Ace 50 w 2x12 combo btw.
Apologies if this is a dupe. My comment disappeared.
For the cabinet in the room vs mic'd, I wonder if one factor is that the mic is often so close to a speaker. First of all, the capsule on an SM57 is so small compared to the speaker. Another factor is that it would remove a lot of the reverb, especially with an SM57. I wonder if you back up the mic, put it in the middle of the room, use an omni-directional mic, put the mics at the back of the room, use a shotgun mic, etc. have been tried recently.
There's been suggestions like point the mic 180 from the speaker, point them at the floor, etc as well. Another is a mic that has a 180 pickup pattern.
Hey glenn!! Love your videos - they have taught me more about "what matters" as far as tone goes and what doesn't than anything else I've read or watched.
If you happen to see this comment maybe you can help me out - I have 3 Amps on hand (will be 4 tomorrow!) - a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, a Fender 65 Reissue Deluxe Reverb, a Marshall DSL40C and (arriving tomorrow), a Vox AC30C2 - the one with 2 12" Celestion G12M greenback speakers. I also have the matching 1x12" Fender Deluxe cabinet for the Hot Rod Deluxe, which I am actually using with the 65 Deluxe Reverb right now in a stereo configuration with the Hot Rod Deluxe (left is Deluxe Reverb+ Cab, Right is Hot Rod Deluxe). Right now, while I don't have friends who are interested in or motivated enough to learn an instrument so I could potentially form a band, I'm stuck trying to learn as many of my favorite songs as I can. These range from lots of things with very clean tone (The Allman Brothers, Phish, etc.) to things that have some pretty heavy tones (Led Zepplin, The Who, Tool, etc.). Oh and just for the record my guitar is a Fender American Ultra HSS Strat (Artic Pearl just like the one I've seen in your hands in some of your videos - I changed out the tortise shell pick guard for a Pearloid white guard, otherwise it has the all the stock Fender bits and pieces)
My question for you is this - with my 1x12" cab and the Vox, I can ostensibly have 2x12" speakers pushing air on both sides. Do you have a recommendation of what speaker(s) I could use to get the best of both clean and heavier sounds? Are the Celestion greenbacks worth keeping in the Vox? Any information at all you could give me to point me in the best possible direction would be greatly appreciated!! I'd be happy to read anyone else's opinions as well!! Thanks!
Hey, Glen for those of us who already have V30 cabs and are looking to diversify... I have a 2x12 ENGL V30 cab... I also have an old crate 4x12 that I'm looking to reload... It would be great to know which speakers would blend with the V30 as well. A few of these speakers sounded great! I'm sure this video took a lot of time thank you for your service.... Just an idea....
Zilla cabs did great comparison videos, check them out or just try stuff.
You've mentioned getting a re-amp box a lot. I record as a side hobby. I don't release music (let alone finish most of my projects). I don't have any physical amps or cabs. Should I and others get a re-amp box if all we're using are Amp Sims? I see the usefulness when recording through physical equipment, but not when it's all digital.
Edit:
Well I guess to answer myself. I guess it would make sense if we were to send it to someone else to mix it. I try to mix all of my recordings.
I think people assume that because speakers are simple on paper and the spec sheet says 2 speakers have the same specs, that they will sound the same.
But in reality, every little change in the construction of the speaker (or at least the electrical and moving components) will effect the frequency response etc.
Slightly different stiffness or thickness of rubber in the surround, a slightly different weight in the cone, different number of turns in the coil, different strength of magnet etc etc. Will all change how it manages to convert an electrical signal into sound.
Glenn, I've been playing guitar for round about 10 years now and have been watching your channel off and on throughout that time, but I consider myself much more of a hobbyist than a musician. I'll never write a song, I'll never play in a band, and I'll never [semi]professionally record something (and to be clear, I'm ok with that), but some day I may upload a cover or two if I can ever get myself to actually practice (i.e. I'm still shit at guitar). Up until this year I'd been playing my electric guitars acoustically. I'd never plugged in my guitar to an amp; never even owned a cable. However now that I've actually started buying some gear (got some nice headphones and an interface in Feb. and have been using some great free plugins on Reaper), I plan to buy more hardware now that I can afford to do so. There are so many opinions on the internet and channels talking about recording and how to set up gear and whatnot, but few to none of them actually do much to empirically verify things, let alone have the focus on metal that you do, and that's all I play. Thank you so much for all the time you've spent educating the dumb populace (me), or I would have eventually dropped tons of money on gear that made no difference and I didn't know how to use. And remember, fuck you, Glenn! 😃🖕
Hi Glenn,
After all your speaker AB tests confirmed your point, I did some thinking on the physics of speakers and found an Audiophile forum rabbit-hole. There are some out there that think controlling temperature and humidity have a significant effect on speaker tone/performance. Do you think there is any merit to this for guitar? (probably more than "tonewood" at least!)
Cheers!
The other John Browne did a really great video on V30's, which shows that even the same kind of speaker can sound vastly different from another. So I get your point about 'every guitar tone sounds the same today' , I agree about that. But I dont think it's the speaker that much, as it is more in the whole todays standard on making heavey music: tons of highly saturated gain, same kind of production for the mix (super modern, mainly Plugins with presets, overcompressed drums, shrill Vocals, etc.), and youtube guys telling you 'HoW To GeT A KeEeEwL MeTaL GuiTaR SoUnD!!11' (No pun on you intended). I think all this stuff results in a very similar idea for many different people in what a 'good high gain tone' is supposed to be like.
The engineer in me appreciates the use of frequency plots! I am curious though, does the amplification of a given frequency depend on the magnitude of the input? In other words, does the speaker filter/amplify sounds linearly or nonlinearly?