Don't WASTE $3000 on this Nonsense!
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- In the market for the fabled 5150 Block Letter amp? Don't waste $3000 before looking at what Peavey has to offer.
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Disclosure: Peavey sent me the amp. No cash has changed hands. It's unclear if I'm keeping it, and I really don't think they'll be sending me anything else after they see this video!!
About Spectre Sound Studios:
I'm Glenn Fricker, engineer here at Spectre Sound Studios. I love making records, and after doing it for sixteen years, I want to pass on what I've learned. On my channel you can find tutorials on how to record guitar, bass, real drums and vocals. There's reviews and demos of tube amps, amp sims, drums, mics, preamps, outboard gear, Electric Guitar, Bass Guitar, and plugin effects.
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Made in the US tubes?
@@MrUltraworld /real deal?/thanx 4.D Fyi.....
Maybe if You take two 5150s, result be the same. For ex - because of components tolerance.
Subscribe to these nuts.
No chance of that, I'm too poor to get ripped off! 😥
Legendary comment
Same here.
The IRS agent with AR 15s enters chat: are you sure about that??
Welcome to the club
This comment wins the internet for the day. I wish I'd have thought of it myself. Cheers 🍻
Even the amp designer James Brown has gone on record many times that the non block letter is the exact same circuit as the block letters and sound the same yet people are still buying into the myth of block letters being a holy grail.
James Brown made amps? I thought he just sang the funk.
Transformers were different in them and Peavey only realized this when making the infective head. The news has only come to light this year in a few other youtube videos.
@@kosmo926 No. The transformers between the Block letter, Signature, and 6505 all use the same exact transformer. The manufacturer of the output transformer changed at some point after it became the 6505.
Edit: the specs remained exactly the same after the manufacturer change.
@@tortillaman2491Why do you think they called him "the hardest working man in show business"??
And besides just the Block lettering and the 2nd version the EVH signature on the front panel..James Brown said they are the same but some of the earliest block letter amps had the Peavey branded power tubes and they started using whatever they could get when the Peavey labeled tubes started running out...I sold my EVH signature version right before Eddie died for $575 and it was in about perfect condition...then I looked a few places online after he passed and saw some prices as high as $15-$1600 dollars.
I think if you did the same experiment with 2 5150's you might find similar results. Don't forget there are tolerances in all the components in the circuit. So even a slight change in tolerances especially with hi gain, a slight mismatch in drive levels can produce more pronounced null test. A better experiment would be to send the source to both heads and then bring them back to the DAW and phase flip the second head. Then you can adjust the knobs to see how much you can null them out. I bet you could get better null results this way.
Wanted to say the same. Especially the potis are notorious for having bad tolerances.
That would be my guess too. The frequency plot between the 5150 and the 6505, those differences can be easily be explained by tolerances in coupling capacitors and would be found just as well between two 5150s that rolled off the assembly line on the same day.
Anyone with any Electrical Engineering background know th old saying, 100 pennies equal a dollar. Let's say those pennies are components. Now, take each penny and +/- 10% from each and every one. Now, a 'dollar' is anywhere from 90 cents, to a buck ten.
Nearly all production amps use CHEAP AS DIRT 10%+/- tolerance components, including the power transformers. No two amps can sound the same, as it's impossible by those tolerances alone. My marine transducers have to use +/-1% components, or by 2000 feet of water, I'd have an inaccurate reading for the tolerance the mappers want.
The oscilloscope doesn't lie, yet youtubers do. Everyday.
Capacitors in the 5150 would have also drifted over time compared to the 6505, no doubt this would have also contributed to the differences observed on the scope.
It's not just manufacturers that have to suppress the desire to cheapen products. Parts suppliers have to do the same, but are harder to catch cheating.
All the electronic components like resistors and condensers have some value tolerance (5% typically), so even two amps of the same model can sound slightly different. Metallica's sound engineer told that the time they used the Mesaboogie tube amps for the live gigs they had two identical amp sets and they still sounded slightly different, so the mixing engineer had to tweak the settings on the mixing console depending on which of the two amp sets was being used for the gig.
yeah i was going to say the same thing. Manufacturing tolerances are a thing, thats why you need things like paired mics because they need to sort the production into pairs because they can vary quite a bit. They don't manufacture them at the same time perfectly matched, they measure a bunch of already produced ones to find ones that are very close and sell those as paired. any pair is still going to be slightly different from each other but very different from another pair.
All electronics and even all other manufactured good are like that.
Which is why today Metallica uses Fractals live. Same sound, every night.
Is this slightly different noticable in a properly conducted blind test? As an electronic engineer, my opinion is that if so, fire your circuit designer. He knows not what he does.
@@KennethRrvik I mean, you heard the initial playback. Without the mirror tests and close spectral analysis you wouldn't be able to tell. And on gear that is 40 year old designs and manufactured 3 decades apart if they are that close we can put that down to manufacturing tolerances. Perhaps some wear.
@@KennethRrvik
The difference in the tubes alone could be enough to have those differences.
Tubes age.
I had my eyes closed while listening to the test and heard no difference in the full mix. Glad we have all these tools to help tweak the extra, barely audible sounds that can muddy the mix. Thanks for doing the test!
at the end of the day, it's how they sound in context that matters.
our eye lids are very powerful tools i wish more people knew how to use them
Same here. Particularly in the full mix.
I had my eyes closed and heard horrible farting sounds. Kinda expecting guitar sounds I guess.
@@AdaptivePhenix You might want to get that check out by a doctor.
Glenn, bongs don't make people stupid, the power of suggestion makes people stupid.
I've noticed that most of the guys I know that aren't great players and/or songwriters are the ones that have their self worth tethered to the gear they own/have access to.
They sure don't help the situation.
I would LOVE to see a comparison like that between the 5150, 6505, and the Joyo Vivo. Wouldn't even have to be a long video, just a "hey look at this graph" sort of thing. Love the video, keep up the good work!
Finally a modded vivo
Joyo vivo sounds like a fun weekend
Featuring Nickelback
Then there should also be the "modern" 5150 III from the EVH brand, as it's the one the VIVO seems to try replicating (white color).
@prehistoricpoodle Agreed.
Interesting results. I'm not an electrical engineer either, but I suppose that parts tolerances or component drifting due to age could partially explain the differences you found. You might find similar differences in two 6505's or two 5150 block letters just due to a +/- tolerance difference in components. But in the full band mix I did not hear a enough of a difference to think that the 6505 could not hold a candle to the 5150 signature. I'm still with you on the fact that if you want to make the 5150/6505 sound different, change you cab, speakers, mic type, and mic placement.
Either way, the mix sounded wicked and that is the most important factor. Not the brand name or the badge.
I suspect in this case the transformer actually is the largest factor. In tube amplifiers, especially guitar amplifiers, very little negative feedback is used that could linearize both the distortion characteristics and the frequency response of the output transformer. Transformers need a fuckton (that's the technical word for it, I believe) of iron if they are to produce a flat frequency response, particularly in the low end, and guitar amplifiers tend to be very undersized due to the very high cost of the transformer (by far one of the most expensive parts in an amp). Undersizing the transformer also makes it much more likely to saturate and distort. The transformer also reflects the impedance of the speakers to the output tubes, presenting to them a multiplied version of their impedance filtered though the characteristics of the transformer, making the transformer highly interactive with the speakers and their frequency and physics dependent impedance, which incidentally is also what makes speaker changes in a guitar setup even more impactful in guitar tone than they already are in a hifi setup. Many solid state guitar amps use current feedback through the speakers to achieve a similar reactivity with the speakers to what a tube amp with an output transformer does.
All that being said, I agree that in a band mix, the difference isn't very significant, and both sounded fucking great.
Also the difference in 2nd & 4th harmonic distortion may be as simple as one amp having slightly mismatched power tubes.
The aging and tolerance on all individual electronic components could account for the small sonic difference. I bet if you test 3 or 4 original 5150 against each other you will see some difference too based on usage and tolerances
100%. I had a block letter and a couple script logos. I liked the block letter I had. I liked the script logo more. It was less noisy. My current script logo is excellent.
Carcass Heartwork tone is a pinnacle of death metal tone.
🤘🏽
Wow, I’m surprised two real amps could sound so similar even with the same circuitry. I feel like this definitely puts the debate to rest. Thank you for this test, Glenn!
Great video. Both incredible amps. I have owned both and neither of them ever let me down. I currently have an EVH Iconic and it stands up to both of these every day.
I avoided the whole issue by buying a used Bugera 6262 Infinium (6505+ clone) for a few hundred. Swapped V2 & V3 tubes with 12AY7's to tame the gain a little and I can use this amp for anything from classic rock to metal.
it's amazing how a volume produced amp like the 5150 gets bumped up like bananas in price because of a famous artist's name being put on it.
And yet a used 6505 does not. Same amp
Nah, I am pretty much used to that by now. Once you've built a Klon clone for $25 in parts using the same circuit and parts that the original used, yet people are willing to pay more then a $1000 for an original, you know that guitar players are idiots. Only 1 grade above audiophiles in being gullible.
@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623
Don't forget the special cables.
@@mhsandifer 🤣🤣🤣
Branding at its finest
Comparing the 5150 signature vs. another 5150 signature in a null test just the same way would be interesting. I'd bet measurements would diverge about as much as with the new 6505. Probably because of component tolerances, especially with the transformers.
Yeah, instead of paying an inflated price for the 5150 (either BL or Script) I just went ahead and got the 5153 50 watt Stealth. I have not regretted my purchase at all. If someone needs the 5150 badge that desperately, the EVH amps are fantastic. I got mine for the better clean channel and the built in midi for channel switching.
If tubes=better sound, then a set of brand new pickups makes me a better guitar player 🤓
Hold on a minute. Don't they? 🤯
Hi Glenn! Love your efforts to bust false guitar myths and protect consumers. I have a new video suggestion that falls into the "tone is in the hands" debate. Soft vs. Hard picking.
Tied to the notion of "heaviness" of metal, it always seems like in metal it's generally cool to say that you pick hard. People argue that picking harder sounds better, especially in genres like thrash metal, but this advice both feels relative (what even is "hard" picking?) and there are many guitarists in metal that seem to pick very lightly and yet their sound still sounds huge (Bill Kelliher of Mastodon comes to mind).
I know you did a video 9 years ago about tone is in the hands. I think your new video should do a similar set of experiments but this can focus on hard vs. soft picking.
A) What does it mean to pick hard? (Is it deep picking depth? How tightly you hold the pick? How wide your hand motions are? Or how large the sound wave that is produced is?)
B) Between two great guitarists where one is clearly a harder picker, is there any recorded difference playing the same track?
C) If there is a sound difference, can you as a producer fiddle with amp or EQ settings to make the soft picking sound the same as hard picking?
Might be a long-shot, but It'd be cool if you could do this test with Matt Heafy and Corey Beaulieu of Trivium since they're both great, play thrash-inspired metal, and Matt has publicly teased Corey about being a light picker. Could be a great interview/experiment video.
Thanks!!
Also, ideally don't let them use a different pick.
Seconded! I would love to see a video on this.
I've seen other guitar players claim this, too (Jens Larsen) and a different RUclips producer claim that you need to pick harder to give producers more sonic content to work with, yet there is also contradictory advice suggesting picking with less tension (lighter?) will lead to more speed and fluidity. So which is it??
Dave Davidson of Revocation also claims you need to "dig in" but plays so fast it's hard to believe he's picking hard as well (he uses an EVH 5150 III).
I'd love to see you do this with two actual block letters or two 1992 originals. Let's see what the tolerances are of the same amp because I think that would lead us to even more answers.
Great video and nice to see something that's quantifiable put in front of people.
Bud, how you manage to be entertaining and annoying at the same time, lol , that is a true gift.
This vid was very informative, and exposes that some companies will only think of the bottom line. Toddles for now
I’ve owned like 5 or 6 different block letters and they all sounded different there was 1 that stood out hands down better than the rest
Yup,I've owned many,unfortunately I been trying to replace one that was stolen that just sounded much better than any of the other ones,I still remember my settings and none of the other have been set even close,I have turn the presence up past 7,the one that was stolen if you went past 7 it was was to much.
I had the block lettered combo version 11 yrs ago. Don't know how old it was because I didn't have it that long. When I tried it out, I played a strat through it and couldn't believe how it nailed SRV tones so I bought it. The main reason I got rid of it was because even with wheels on it, it was backbreaking to move in and out of the car.
Slightly off topic, but if I may offer something about tubes I've learned from experience. The only time I felt tubes made a difference is if the sets you use have a matched plate current or not, particularly in the power section. Many years ago, I replaced the power tubes in a Reverend Hellhound with a set that I got from the store (just any EL84 they had in stock - same brand mind you). The sound didn't necessarily change, but the response and feel did. After noticing this, I bought a matched set directly from Reverend and the original feel and response came back. Another caveat was that I was not playing anything high-gain (the Hellhound couldn't keep up with that), so I don't know if matched or unmatched plate voltages would make a difference in a metal context. Anyways, food for thought...
Isn't that done by turning a screw on the inside? I thought matching plate voltages was part of regular amp maintenance and something to do after buying new tubes, exactly because of what you're mentioning
@@ivanbrasla Yeah, that's biasing an amp. I'm not sure if its the same thing. Maybe someone who knows definitively can chime in?
@@kevindaoustBiasing an amp means finding the optimal operating environment for the tube pair (very simplified version). Matched tubes will react to bias in the same manner. Random tubes may not.
Think about it like having equal tire pressure on your car.
I love myths like this, it implies an emergency meeting where all the electrical designers, factory floor foremen, acquisitions and upper management all sat round a table and said "Look, because we're changing the font of the die cut logo we need to come up with an entirely different circuit."
"Why?!"
"Because of Reverb and guitar forums".
"Say no more, boss!"
"Let's make it so that we sell the new faceplate models at half of what the old amps are doing 2nd hand"
Colin Richardson did some of the greatest guitar tones ever in extreme Metal. I also think his work on Napalm Death's Utopia Banished is under-appreciated.
It is true lol I owned a block letter just for the sake of owning one. Got it for around $850, which is a good price in todays market. It sounded no better than a stock 6505…in fact I think my block letter sounded a little worse. Lmao I went and got it tuned up and retubed and biased and it sounded better for sure. But then I compared both the 5150 block and my 6505 to a EVH 50 watt stealth and it smoked them both! Sold the Peaveys and still have the evh.
Yep the 50 watt Stealth head is awesome !
I have a Laney vh100r and I compared it to a 50 watt evh stealth n I liked the sound from the Laney more
@@Metaljohn666 lol I’ve actually kind of shifted my stance. I ended up getting a EVH stealth 100 and started gigging again…I noticed the stealth was great at home, but seemed overly smooth and lacking in some key mod range frequencies in a band setting. Basically, I was getting drowned out by my co guitarists amp, which he built himself as like a modified Mesa dual Rec type circuit. Picked up a Peavey 6505+ and I could hear myself again. It wasn’t a volume thing at all…the evh stealth just doesn’t stand out all that well.
Have u tried the peavey jsx. The ultra channel with a Mxr 10 band n ts9 sounds sick.
I just got a 1992 Peavey 5150 blockletter amp. Peavey Serial number lookup verfied.
Block letter 5150 were made from 1992-94. 1995 was EVH signature models.
I've had the heads...but prefer the combo which cost me £400 and kept it for over 20yrs now...
I never buy new these days ..ever!
So yeh even second hand prices are a joke these days...you're spot on here buddy
This amp would not exist as it is without the Soldano SLO's (and internal circuits) that Eddie used powering his 5150 cabs during Sammy Hagar days.
I think this is the kind of difference expected between two amps even at the same model. There is always some difference on components like pots, resistors and transformers. You should try the same test with two amps of the same model and maybe the same year to make sure. Great video Glenn
Man this makes me wanna go get some greenbacks more than anything. That sound on burn my eyes is insane!
IMO Machine Head have almost always had The best guitar tone amongst their peers from the era... though Exodus are not far behind
Just dropped money on a 5150 earlier this year and it's money well-spent. It's currently rocking a Hercules adapter, Adlib clone, and DOS 5.0 on the C: drive.
This is awesome. I remember this argument. Bought signature in 2009 for $400. Lo and behold it sounded exactly the same as a block letter in a Mesa rectifier cabinet. I still stand by you only
Need to amps. 5150 and a fender twin reverb case closed
Back in the '80s I was told "you need Russian tubes, they're the bestest!!" 🤣🤣🤣
I remember that!!
They were probably right just by coincidence of most tubes being made in Russia
Well I'm sure you've heard the old saying they don't build them like they used to. That is true to some extent when it comes to tubes. Old tubes made by RCA from the U.S. and old Russian tubes were built to a higher standard(more robust) than modern tubes. Which means they were just better built and lasted longer which has nothing to do with tone. These people that go out and pay crazy prices for New Old Stock tubes thinking it's going to make their amp sound better are idiots.They may last a little longer but that's about it.Id rather save my money.
A lot of artists don’t even use the gear they endorse, especially in the studio. They go so far as to put different speakers in the cabs, use a different amp behind the stacks on stage, or even not use physical gear at all and use something like Kemper. Besides, the brown sound was better.
The distortion graph is the amount of harmonic content introduced as a function of frequency of the fundamental
In 2013 I picked one up for $120, original 212 combo. Dude had it sold already for $100 and I offered him an extra 20 if he'd cancel the other sale. It wasn't pumping sound because of a blown noise circuit, despite being very low hours. Got it repaired, cleaned up for $300. So for $420 I got a kickass amp that was hardly used at all.
Hi. Im Rob. I’m not a technical guy but I know what sounds good. I really appreciate your time in making and posting these videos. I’ve learned a great deal from you and I just wanted to thank you. Rock On
Bought a block letter for $450 in Sacramento, dropped another $175 on a fresh set of JJ 6l6s and 12ax7s. Ran some De-Oxit on the jacks and pots… 7 years later still running strong for an amp built in ‘92.
Cool comparison. I love every iteration of the amp. Any differences are lost in the drums and bass, and they all are monsters.
Would love to see a shootout of a “non metal” tube amp with high gain pedals vs dedicated high gain amp through the same cab.
Bunch of contenders for the low gain amp. For current production would love to see the mig-50 or one of the higher wattage fenders ( like the hot rod deluxe which is pretty ubiquitous)
Picked one up in 04, banged it around for years and once dialed in it never lost it's tone, tubes or spring. Loved that head.
I love my 6505. Got it in exchange for #200 worth of guitar lessons from a student who had the combo and the cabinet had cracked after being dropped. I built a case from poplar wood and now it's a 6505 amp head. :) It's very versatile.
Glenn, I have a interesting request for you. Could you check out the St.Louis Music brand of amps and cabs ala Crates and AMPEGs like VH-140c and the GX-130C, or at least do some sort of video general amp gear which was thought as garbage by the masses? These amps along with the rise of old skool death metal is slowly gaining interest, at least in my eyes.
I have a 91 crate gx160 combo, once in awhile I will plug in to a 4x12 cab not the single speaker as a head and it sounds pretty death metal .
No Glen don't
Ampeg VH 140c is hard enough to find
Doesn't have to be that perticular, just would be cool if he'd come around one or the other similar ones.@@davedecker1725
My current EVH 5150 Iconic combo sounds epic and was less than $700. I can't imagine paying $3000 for ANY amp, because no one will even care but me!
Glenn you’ve saved me so much grief over the years. I can’t thank you enough for the work you do! Amazing stuff man!
i bought a demo model 5150 II over 15 years ago for $650. Its mint good to know I get get my money back and then some😊
In 1994 I tried the 5150 at mom and pop shop in SLC named progressive music. They had the amps downstairs right at the bottom of the stairs. I just stared at them for a while then the store owner asked me if wanted to try one them out. I couldn’t say yes fast enough. He grabbed a guitar for me a plugged it in and cranked up the amp. I played a few chords and was I love. The only issue I had with them was this hiss they had. I asked to play the clean channel but it had the same hiss. The owner just laughed and said “These amps are for clean playin. They are for distortion and loud playing.” Man I wish I would have had the money to get one back then.
Great video! I have the signature 5150, for just over 23 years now (owned 2, 1st one was stolen). It's my favorite amp ever, nothing has even come close for me. I also see asshats charging stupid prices (or attempting to) for guitars that aren't rare at all...like over 3 grand for original Peavey Wolfgangs and over 8 grand for Ibanez JEM 77FPs (2nd most produced JEM in the line's history, they are NOT rare). Thanks for informing us of this very cool and useful information! 🤘🤘
Hartley Peavey says guitar players want to believe in magic. This is the drive behind the block letter craze and vintage guitars and amps fetching new car prices. As someone who was alive in the 70's I can say with confidence things were not built better back then, and even if it was, it's 50 years old now. Technology and manufacturing improvements have come a long way.
Still have my block letter 5150. Got it at a pawn shop around '94 for about $350 I believe. Still rocks! Think I'll keep it.
I think the difference is negligible at this point.
Having a block letter 5150 is just a collectors items kind of thing cause it’s old.
I remember comparing the 6505 with one, and thinking they were identical. I went the 6505 cause it’s simply newer.
I’m amazed the Peavey 5150 amps are as reliable as they are. If you look inside one and see how they are built you would think there would be more problems.
i was the first guy to get the original box letter in south Jersey. It cost me less than a grand in 92 for the half stack...To this day, still one of my favorite amps
I definitely smell more ambiance from the original tubes. There is an openness to the aura from the tube glow that is hard to deny. I also believe the copper wires from the 1990's had more free room for the electrons to move through.
Glen love your show and attitude. I laugh so hard listening to you, it's the pick me up I need every day. Don't change a thing and keep rocking Brother!!!!!
If only there was a way to calculate how much money Glenn has helped musicians save over the years. Die hard fan of your channel! Cheers from KS!
Spent a small fortune on tubes . Learned the expensive way that the tone changes very little if at all when swapped out.
I'll never forget the first time I heard a 5150 in person, at a metal show in a small venue. Guitarist comes out for a quick sound check. It was the greatest thing I'd ever heard. The best heavy metal tone in history.
I'd like to see you get more 5150s and 6505s and test them because I've always heard people say their (insert amp) sounds different
Graphs!!! Finally!!! More graphs please!!!!
Thanks for the content! I got bummed out about guitar tech since I studied electrical engineering. I had never seen a producer's take on the issues that bothered me.
THERE IS A CLEAR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 5150 AND THE 6505. WHEN I PLAY THE 5150 I THINK OF MY AMAZING TONE WHILE I FIGURE OUT HOW TO PAY OFF THE LOAN I TOOK OUT TO PAY THE THING.
I'd be interested to see this repeated with two brand new amps of the same model, just to see if there's any measurable sample variation, and how it compares to the measurement differences of a new vs old amp.
I was going to ask the same thing. Could there be a very slight difference in the amp settings due to the dials not being 100% the same, like one dial set to 5 on one amp and just slightly off 5 on the other?
I am not a guitar player or even a qualified audio engineer, and I still got a kick out of this video. I enjoy scientific content like this, keep it up!
So, I am an acoustician and electrical engineer and I want to point out while the difference is measurably different most of these difference would be inside the range of a class 1 measurement microphone. If your quality control was based fully on frequency response these would be the same amplifier. The distortion plots are different but quantifying the audibility of distortion is a continued research topic.
The high freq difference was a gain difference. Pots have 10/20% tolerance so you can't trust the knob position. Said that, tubes are different. One might be saturating earlier. First two stages are the more important here. Also consider the bias of the power tubes . The bias is set quite cold from factory but one set of tubes will run hoter than other. If you don't have the master too high and you are not saturating the power amp the power amps will be very close. You can always swap tubes to from one amp to the other to discard tubes. You can't use a sine wave to level match a signal it might match at 1k but be completely of in others. I suggest you use fab filter with the eq matching mode. You can adjust the gain until the freq difference is flat and then adjust the output level. I have done this test myself with a 5150 and an old 6505 and yes they are the same amp.
I mean an old 6505 no idea of the new one
Remember the Genelex Gold Lion tube craze in the early 2000's anyone? "what did you hear ?" is the key. Well done.
I think it was Glen who convinced me to buy a Peavey Windsor. You don't need to spend thousands for good tones
Components have tolerance margins. You probably get tone shifts from the same amp from two different production batches.
Curious to hear the difference on the green channel with crunch on + a tube Screamer.
It was a very popular use of the 5150 for rhythm guitars rather than the red channel.
(But I admit it's pure curiosity/geekery from me haha !)
Cheers Glenn, keep up the great work ! 🤘
Personally lucky enough to own an original 5150 I bought as new in 1993. Sitting just to the left of me as I type this on a stack of 2 Marshall 4x12's from the same time. Still love it, though it is in need of new tubes.
Man, I`m glad I only play acoustic guitars. Our band`s all Peavey setup in the early 90s (before the fire...besides the Ampeg bass amp), had a crystal clear pristine wonderful sound. When I let other drummers sit in for me I was blown away by how great they sounded. Not sure how old our stuff was but it was a beat up collection of what we could scrounge up. Hartley Peavey was always good to musicians too. I respected them a lot.
They both sound amazing. It’s just depends on how you use it.
I absolutely love your technical analysis part of this video. Comparing sonic profiles, inverting phase between the reamped recordings, all of it. Well done. I'll be using some of these techniques myself when doing A/B comparisons between amps and sims.
I have a block letter. The only thing it had that was different were original Sylvania 6L6's... I still have them, but changed them out years ago... It'll always be a killer amp.
I have a block letter 5150 I bought new in 1993, and it did not come with Sylvania's. I think they ran out of those pretty quick.
Yes, very rare and collectible and hunted for even more these days.
The components aging is probably the reason why there's an ever so slight difference in tone. It's not an appreciable difference, but a difference nonetheless.
100%, just buy the newer one. They basically sound identical.
Potentiometers has 10-15% tolerance. B250 (typical treble pot) at 12 o’clock could be 125k/125k, or could be 100k/120k, or 110/100k or something else. That’s means even two same amplifiers should have different eq settings when they looks the same. But also most of components in 5150 has a 5% tolerance (just a couple resistors has 1% tolerance).
All amps a different. The same thing with speakers
Hi Glenn. Can you review the Fender Ton Shitster Pro? I can't find anyone to tear it to pieces when it actually deserves that, and you seem like the perfect dude for the job. Pleasee!!!
That's WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more close than I expected.
basically the pitch in Hz of any harmonic can be calculated using the formula (fundamental)*x, where x is any whole integer. so for instance you're playing a440 as the fundamental pitch, and you want to know what the second harmonic is. simply multiply 440 by 2. for the 3rd mupltiply by 3, etc.
In the mid 90s, Prince would use the 5150 Cabinet with a SLO 100 as he dirt signal
I think what's going on in the question around 13:00 is actually pretty simple: tolerance stacking (and component aging). All electronic components have some tolerances, and values can shift ever-so-slightly when they age. The resistors in my own 6505 combo have 5% tolerance, for example. Capacitors and resistors in the tone stack will have an outsized effect compared to, say, the capacitors in the power supply rectifier. Tolerances will stack up over a big circuit, and the results are two different amplifiers are always going to give slightly different outputs. I believe if you shot out two old 5150s, or two new 6505s, you'd see similar results.
Regardless though, they both sound the same to me. Only difference is in my eyes (frequency response graphs), not my ears.
So, having some experience in electrical engineering, I have a few thoughts. Comparing two entirely different units, even which have the exact same circuit, is pointless. The reason boils down to the differences in components. Even if they are made with the same brands, same value, same batch numbers, same everything, the two built circuits can sound different from each other. All passive components (capacitors, resistors, potentiometers, diodes, inductors, transformers, etc.) have a tolerance value designated by the manufacturer. So even if Peavey is using the exact same manufacturer and model of capacitor for DC removal (filtering out any DC bias used for amplification), one could be +20% and the other -20%. For something like a 220 uF capacitor, that means one could be 180uF and the other 260uF. And the system would still be "in spec." This matters because the passive components are designed in a way to create high pass and low pass filters. And they don't simply cut off the frequencies, but rather roll them off the higher/lower they go. So beyond a sweet spot (which seems to be around the 2K mark, if I'm reading the graph right), one amp allows more lower frequencies through while cutting the highs off while the other does, well, the exact opposite. So they could be identical on paper, but be equipped with slightly different capacitance or resistance values, which could create the very slight differences you're seeing.
For the green channel, well, your pedal also has high pass and low pass filters, so the issue gets exacerbated, then amplified and cropped for distortion. So it all makes sense to me. The circuits could be identical or they could not be. No way to know unless both devices are reverse engineered and the values measured.
(shrug)
I remember in the mid 90's I bought a full 5150 stack block letter used for $600 at Black Market Music in Walnut Creek, California.. People gave these things away back then.. I changed then shitfields with G12K-85 in one cab and Greenbacks in the top..
Glenn's standard de-mystify reply: "There is absolutely , definitely no difference ---- in a full mix"
Well, I’m this case, there’s a small difference. Much more apparent on the green channel.
Glenn, thanks for the background research. I enjoy that stuff and it makes me watch even though I’m not in the market for this amp.
I changed many tubes out in my 5E3 and it makes all the difference in the world. It depends on the style of music. Heavy metal square waves are very different topic. It depends on the circuit and the style of music, but there's a reason people chase NOS tubes and I've A/B'd them out the yang and the difference can be huge. The difference in modern tubes can be more slight, depending.
Bullshit. Where are your findings! Which reamp box did you use?
This is a great video love it ,everyone with a guitar should watch this
Different components have different tolerances. Modern day resistors used in designs (unless you're in a power circuit) are 1% tolerance and should be pretty closely aligned. However, other components such as transistors are likely to be where you'd see these tolerances come into play. The difference in transformer almost certainly makes a difference because it's going to affect how the signal drives the rest of the circuitry.
Since you asked about harmonics: a pure sine wave is a single frequency, but when we talk about a note, it isn't a pure sine wave. There are other frequencies (harmonics) mixed in. A harmonic specifically is related to the wavelength used to produce that frequency, and they happen to be whole integer fractions of the base frequency (usually referred to as the fundamental frequency). For example, a 1m string vibrating would have harmonics at 1/2m, 1/3m, 1/4m, etc with each of those wavelengths corresponding to a higher frequency. When you add distortion you're increasing the volume of those harmonics, as well as adding additional harmonics to the ones already there. I believe the graph you're looking at is telling you how much each harmonic is boosted across frequency. Normally when you look at a frequency response graph you're only looking at how the fundamental frequency is affected. Going back to a guitar, bass, etc. even a single fretted note is not a single frequency, but a group of frequencies. So by looking at the harmonics in addition to just the fundamental you can get a larger picture of what the signal chain is doing to a real world instrument.
Hope this helps!
5150 is audible more scooped than the 6505, always was. I'm an electronics technician, 10 or 12 years ago I did some amps with a colleague. All the sound varies in the design of the transformers (toroidal or conventional core one), the material of the core and purity of conductors. Even the location of the transformers affect the function of the valves because of the magnetic field they generate. Also, in the same line of model, even if it's handmade or serialized, no amp sounds exactly the same as the other, even using the same valves. It's a physics thing about materials, nothing more, nothing less. You just showed it in the spectrometer. Also, a lot of people focus in the power tubes, but the distortion occurs in the preamp valves, and everyone uses the 12AX7's by convention... so, again, it's reduced to materials and their nuances.
I hope that basic explanation helps to understand a little bit of what's what. Cheers Glenn... fuck them bassists (i'm a drummer ha!)
I would think that taking opinions on "sound" or "tone" from people that play metal through 100 watt amps and 4 12 cabinets at high volume would be highly suspect. 😅 This from a former 100 watt half stack guy that played metal in the 90's. My 17 watt handwired tube combo and my pedal board does everything I need at home in the studio and on stage.
Glen! Can you review the Ted Weber ToneCvlt speakers? They're supposedly designed for metal and heavier styles in mind, and you're a great gear reviewer who gives honest opinions! Nobody is messing around or reviewing the Bloodhounds at all.
Yes! Definitely want to check them out
Glenn, your to-do list is certainly full enough, but here's a thought. When you do these comparison videos and the results come up "there's a difference, but it's minor", it'd be interesting to make a small attempt at matching the two outputs by way of EQing/etc one of them, so that they sound close enough in the full mix. In other words, and using this video as an example, it could answer the question of whether it's actually worth buying the reissue amp, or using a standard 6505 + adjustments would work fine.
i closed my eyes during the test and i couldn't even know when the sound changed IF it changed
I paid $250 for my 'signature' 5150 back in 2004. I love it...
I just bought a FIRST year 1992 Block Letter 5150 head with the original matching cabinet in mint condition for $900 on September 26th, 2023. Doesn't have a scratch on it. It's bone stock and sounds killer with my Boss SD-1 in the front with the original cabinet and even better with my Vintage 30 Marshall cabinets. I'll sell it to you for $3000...🤪
I don't know why no one ever says this but Eddie used to use the Kerry wright cab.. I believe he uses the G12M 65s. That's what Kerry would put in the cabinets.. I knew this because I knew Kerry wright in Fullerton CA . Kerry passed away a few months after. Eddie.. same thing cancer.. I thought that was odd.. so Eddie never used any market Peavey cabs or anything.kerry also made cabs for Lenny Kravitz. Tom Petty Mike Campbell. Joe Walsh..
Great Job Glenn! Love hearing you cut to the chase!