I always feel that Intel NUC engineers are like in a completely different building and are not allowed to communicate with the rest of the company. They just sit around thinking about how they can make super awesome and functional machines.
Indeed, instead of gimping everything they go "can it be better?" Except for USB-A ports though. They really don't seem to like them even when they could fit twice as many AND still have more than enough bandwidth for everything else because USB 2.0 (and honestly 3.0) is so cheap both in cost and computationaly. It's like they're seriously going for "less ports than a notebook" except when it's a selling point.. and USB somehow isn't a selling point to them.
I've been daily driving Linux for a year now, because while I could keep using Win10, I want to know how to run Linux for when they force everyone to upgrade.
I like it how the editor even switched the audio sample for Wendell talking "DDR4" instead of DDR5 in the original video. Props for the effort when something got suboptimal during the recording.
The ideo of Thunderbolt interconnected cluster (maybe with Proxmox) is just awesome. Essentially it would make a 48 Thread machine with 6 SSDs etc that idles under 30W... Please do it and keep us posted
Yes! Do This! The Lord came down to Jesus and he said; "Yeah, so your job is to make sure that 2023 Years after your death you must ensure that a man named Wendell does an awesome video on a Low-Power Thunderbolt Interconnected Proxmox Cluster using Intel NUC's & SSD's! This is my word!" And thus we must ensure this prophecy!
@@blu3_enjoy Ah yes, my bad, I forgot God doesn't speak English. After all he is a being from beyond our world.... Here it is in the appropriate Klingon tongue, I hope you find this of suitable reading: HIja'! yItlhap! bang Qong 'ej SaHchu' ghopDaj. "HIja', 'ach malja' wIbuStaHvIS, malja' ponglIj lo'taHvIS, malja' puS. nuHmey ghuSchoHl &u'pu'bogh nuvpu' ghu' net chaw'be'. Qu'vatlh! 'ej qechvam mIpqu'!
Didn't know that actually used to be commonplace on GPUs. I kind of get why they would not have it (CEC is already a mess for appliance-type devices like game consoles, streaming devices and Blu ray players, let alone a multi-purpose computer that could be connected to multiple monitors), but having to deal with external CEC adapters is an extra hassle for people who do want that kind of functionnality.
@@Riboshom My problem in taking it away is that users could always turn the feature off, and if it caused problems, just turn it off, dont take a useful feature away from likely 10s of thousands of people who use a PC as a set top box, or like me, as a desktop with a monitor, and then have a media app that runs on the TV and is controlled by the remote as if it was a completely separate machine(so i didnt need a seperate device for media)
Boot via iSCSI should be more widely adopted. I like the engineering on this thing. Why upgrade the NUC when you can just plug new drives into your NAS
I built the original NUC oh so many years ago. Still use it today as my reliable pc. My other "super fast, higher tech" pcs have been done and gone every 2-3 years or so.
I always give kudos to those who praise Linux!!! I'm retired and somehow managed to convert several older neighbors to the penguin. Keep up the good work!!!
@@VioletGiraffe don't know what distro you're using, but has been my daily driver for over 17 years. Mint, btw, since it reminds the majority of winblows users of XP...
i love the part towards the end of the video where you seem to genuinely question your hearing because of the lack of annoying fan noise, great content as always Wendell
It's a real issue, I swear! My workplace no longer has an incessant hearing test of 15.625kHz because they finally upgraded their last lobby CRT. For all I know, I may be deaf now!
Wendell, my suggestion for mad science project is a 40GbE cluster in any of the following configurations: 1 node as a NAS with the NUC head-end using a Thunderbolt dock for a PCIe HBA to host SATA drives, and either: - compile farm running 'ccache' and 'distcc' - compute or render farm for scientific apps, video encoding, 3D renders - video editor workstations clustered to NAS storage Could be fun.
I would really like to see smaller usb c pd GaN chargers become the norm. It's weird when the psu is bigger than the computer. I really liked the iGPU performance increase from 10th to 11th gen. One more jump to compete with AMDs 780M and I am onboard. But the Asrock 4x4 Box 7735U is kind of looking better. It's just hard to justify to upgrade to either when I have a 4800U
I love the NUC, only 2 criticism : the intel driver downloader app (for windows) doesn't have all drivers and the bios update takes a long time. Hardware is amazing though.
Bought my buddy a 5800h beelink mini-pc and he loves it. I had sent him an AMD 9590 + mobo + ram + AIO many years ago and the 5800h is significantly faster which is kinda hilarious how far we have come. These mini-pc are pretty amazing, regardless if AMD or Intel (though I prefer AMD). I want to see STEAM get their foot in the mini-pc market. They already have the steamdeck.... Imagine a more powerful steamdeck but its a desktop. That would be FREAKING SWEET. The steamdeck has 4 cores 8 threads of Zen2 with 8 CU's of RDNA2 cores.... not bad. Now imagine a 8 core 16 thread desktop variant using newer Zen4 with 20 maybe 30 RDNA3-4 cores. All in a Mini-PC box. Like holy shit. Steam could become the MAC of windows/linux..... high quality stuff in small form factors would be sick. When it comes to price to performance, the Steamdeck is technically unrivaled. You cannot buy anything close to its performance in gaming for the same price. Even if you go small form factor mini-pc like the beelink 5800h, you still technically need a monitor, mouse, keyboard, to go with it. That alone puts you over the price of the steamdeck. And you can't build a new pc system that is faster for the same price either. Sure, used parts, you might find some killer deals, but not likely. you would be lucky to build a used pc to match its performance in gaming for the same price....
Valve already tried their Steam machine initiative and it flopped. It's much easier to make compromises in the name of portability, a SFF PC invites direct comparison to a console and I don't think Valve wants to subsidize the hardware at the same level.
I got these for my freight repair shop. Got these for my diagnostics computers..ditch the weak laptops. Also 4 of these for my office and 8 in my diagnostics..amazing little guys.. I'm the boss so I am still rocking the haydess nuc to play games in my office haha.
Really really looking forward the video about the redundancy cluster! What is gonna be build with, Proxmox or TrueCommand/TrueNAS? I understand the praise to Intel but don't forget they're the one to blame for the current culture of not offering the peace of mind of ECC RAM for such a pro oriented product, which is a basic feature for even just a reliable home lab.. and I hate it. Thanks for the detailed video!
10:30 ; I worked at a pretty decent sized warehouse (30,000ish sqft) with a half a dozen docks and ground level doors as well where the new CFO refused to run the exhaust system because it was rather expensive. Dust would accumulate so thick that you could visually notice height differences on flat objects if they didn't move for a while. They managed to kill both a desktop pc and an air compressor, and massively accelerated wear and tear on very expensive equipment from just not cleaning it out. It baffles me that someone can make their way up into C-suite positions making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and regardless of how many times you tell them dust bad, dust cost you money that they don't comprehend it.
very keen to see the Thunderbolt cluster. Specifically with Proxmox and Ceph. have a boot B-key SSD with a nice large 4TB M.2 in each node. Would love to see the disk latency numbers.
Great! Subscribed. I got Nuc 12 Pro Kit, used Windows 11 on it for a month or two, and I'm back on Linux. The difference is heaven and earth in Linux favor.
i have to point out that the OOBE that microsoft drags users (paying customers in most cases btw) through is handled by many linux installers WHILE they're installing AND updating so that when you do restart, you can just use your machine already. macos is only _slightly_ less painful than windows' oobe, although their installation process is egregiously slow.
That $550 mini PC on amazon with the 7735h/6800H with 32GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD is really tempting, but i really want the 7740H with RDNA3 and hopefully AV1 encode.
Every time I've considered one of those low cost/high value mini PCs like a Minisforum or Beelink (and they are super tempting), I check out their support sites and see an absolute void of BIOS support and think, "I'm not sure I want to deal with this if there are weird glitches or quirks that will never be resolved". I'm sure the support is out there somewhere if you do enough digging / can read Mandarin / look up suppliers. Not sure that's what I want to do with my spare time.
@@mapwheel00 Lenovo is often ahead of these smaller manufactures, but generally waits for the full socketable desktop variant, and are often more expensive, though i did pick up a 4750GE tiny for $488 in December 2019, was the machine i used to bring AMD PSB (on the consumer desktop) to the attention of Serve the Home and L1 Techs, previously it was thought to only be enabled by default on servers.
"Something I think will make a very interesting video over on the Linux channel..." - me too, please: make this (and many other) video(s) over on the Linux channel. Please, don't forget.
I'm doing not-so-light programming tasks on a Core i5-8500T Thinkcentre, and it's not bad at all. This machine would be like a spaceship in comparison. "You can play a click adventure", huh. Just played through the Mass Effect Legendary Edition trilogy on the built-in UHD630 in native 1080p and max graphics settings. Currently playing ME Andromeda which is A LOT more taxing, but still playable.
@@dreaper2087 No, you dont need to have a Microsoft account. It's just like the cmd bypass where you skip entering Microsoft account and create a local account. I just think its easier :D
@Linden Reaper It's got nothing to do with wants. The software requires Windows. It's only avalible for Windows server, and all clients must be Windows.
@Linden Reaper Well it is my problem and my bosses problem. I whould love to move them to linux but we run a busniss and having everyone on linux and not paying for licences isn't profitible
I bought one of these mini-pc's. It came with Win-11. I didn't even boot windows and booted and installed Linux right over it instead. So, yeah, don't even bother. ~10W with 6 cores 12T and 64G of ram is sweet.
Another interesting offering. Lately been looking at MinisForum UM560XT and the SER5 of Beelink for a €350 - €400 price range but I'm assuming this NUC will be more expensive :(
13th gen even on desktop is really efficient - if you disable all the automatic Overclocking crap. Still loving the 12600K that i gave a relative. Never even hit TDP during full turbo in stresstests. Tested it on a few motherboards but stuck with a B660 - decent integrated wifi and bluetooth, same performance as on Z690 (and the auto-OC on that board drove it to > 150W for not even 5% more performance)
It's funny how it becomes more and more common for multiple channels to really dunk on windows on the same day. LTT just posted a video on Atlas OS, the stripped down version of windows that actually works at the speeds windows would be capable of.
I'm pretty sure this small PC runs circles around the HP-9000s and IBM RS-6000s we used to run logistics software for the EU distribution centers of several international producers, warehouse management for a large car manufacturer and so on. Today it's barely good enough for small spreadsheets and some slides or light web development. Something went wrong and it went badly wrong!
I am loving these small form factor PC's as my daily driver, and then I can dedicate my high-powered rig just to gaming and nothing else. It's a WIN-WIN situation.😃
Most of these features are on Skull Canyon 6th gen NUC, Crazy awesome bios, I'm guessing that was the first intel fully featued visual bios version of what is now near perfection. The HDMI-CEC, ISCSI, only a single thunderbolt 3 though, so no high speed cluster possibilities 😞
Microsoft could easily dismiss any FTC issue about Microsoft accounts during setup by saying that network setup is only 'recommended' and that it's already documented how people can use the Shift+F10 way for an 'advanced' setup experience. But the FTC won't do anything because that would be a precedent requiring FTC to get involved in Apple's requirement to have an Apple ID. And would possibly extend to other anti-competitive behaviors of Apple including right to repair. Apple is like FTCs favored child or a third rail.
So, the latest iPhones aren't locked to require an Apple ID or to own some other Apple device to set up? You can actually get a new iPhone (with no other Apple product or service at all) and use it as a phone instead of a drink coaster?
LGTVs support IP control as well. If you're using the network port anyway, no need for a silly USBSerial connection, especially since consumer TVs don't often have the serial port on them let alone the computer, you can still do the IP control thing. I feel the pain though. I've had to install LGTV Companion to get it to support turning off and on the TV automatically, but it does have its faults.
Funny as I am watching this video on my NUC 6i7KYK Skull Canyon. Only have had to replace the fan a few times, but otherwise its been good, although its going to be retired at some point to a new tower computer. Great video sir! 👍
the only case i know which got a wireless charging port thats decent is the bequiet dark base 900 pro rev.2 when it got released i got it for 220€ inclusive shipping, now its 300 bucks. insane that prices went up for cases too.
windows 11 will install on older CPU than 8th gen so long as TPM 2.0 is present (which most consumer items will lack, but most corporate machines will have, ex, optiplex micros, lenovo thinkcenter mini's, thinkpads, latitudes. Install, meaning without hacks and without blockers from MS, and with full support for windows updates post-install. Tested on a thinkpad T440p (4th gen intel) and a thinkcenter with an i5-6500T.
I’m interested in seeing how and why one might create a thunderbolt cluster for these on their network. I want to do basic things like pihole and other network services as well as smart hub replacement software so having low downtime is preferable.
Man, if we could give multiple likes here, this would be the video to do so. Just for the exposure to the issues in the Windows 11 installation requiring an account and not being easy to bypass for not technically inclined users.
had to install linux on an old one, i wasn't gonna screw around disabling bits on a nuc just to install windows, it's like the bad ol days when you needed a floppy disk at install time to get a raid chip working, that you probably didn't want at all. i seem to remember once having to do that for a network card.
No one ever seems to mention that you can tell the Windows installer that you want to add the computer a local domain and it will give you a local user as well.
I am interested to see a NUC running an SQL Server. Bonus points if you can demonstrate Data Transparency Encryption. Need to be able to remote into the NUC to update databases.
Good for you that you have all the necessary SW under Linux working. I would be on Linux already too, but music production and the high-end VSTs are necessary for me. So only MacOS and Win10 stay in the game.
😆 At this point I don't see why they don't just add a 80mm low RPM/profile fan on the bottom with a proper filter, it would cost pennies and solve all problems regarding temps, dust and noise. Ain't like you need to avoid the extra 4cm of height consider all peripherals still hold a standard size, also add a Bluetooth 5.0 internally to promote wireless devices usage.
We use tons of these for test fixtures. Also don't tell my boss I could totally work on one (but have a newer $2500 ThinkPad instead). Nothing I compile is much larger than 256KB.
I use a NUC with an i5 7260U, 2 core, 4 thread CPU, to run Ubuntu and Octoprint for my 3D Printer. Night and day difference when compared to the Pi 3B I was using before…. Saving files to a NVME drive vs a SD card, yes please… Best $130 dollars on eBay I have ever spent!
I've bought Vivobook with i3-1220p, it came without windows preinstalled, and the worst thing was that it bricked 1 pendrive with windows install on it, it hasn't seen two others so I needed to find the oldest one that I had in house, really and that pendrive was just 4GB which forced me to download tiny11 which barely fit on that pendrive :D not to mention that I needed to add some intel drivers because it also couldn't see a Micron NVME SSD lol. The struggle was real but in same time that little i3-1220p is a fast powerful bastard for simple things like web browsing, or playing some old games.
Hi Wendell! Have you considered a thunderbolt vs. M.2 adapter comparison for networking on a cutie little PC like this? Also, was there a reason you weren't using the logitech dongle to sidestep Bluetooth?
I've skipped through the video again but apparently missed the Windows problem bit. Got a NUC13ANHi7 (tall) recently, put some RAM (KF432S20IBK2/64) and an SSD (SKC3000D/2048G) in and went to install Windows 11. Wait, has it just crashed? Let's try that again. Removed power, went back and no, not a crash, the device just didn't have ANY networking, nor option to skip anything or try again. No WiFi? Is the cable broken? The the replacement as well? Why is my ancient switch only showing a sort of connection at 100Mbit? Odd. Ah well, SHIFT F10, OOBE and there we go. It has been a VERY long time since I've seen this much yellow in the device manager! A throwback to the olden days. I'm not sure where the hiccup started, a lack of chipset or networking drivers, but something kept both the Intel AX211 and 226-V from being recognized and apparently fully initializing. Yes, Windows 11 22H2 had initially been released before the NUC 13 Pro, but I kind of expected a recent ISO to contain at least some form of driver to get the thing going. It's not even exotic hardware. I had an ASIX AX AmazonBasics USB adapter on a shelf. Back USB port? Nope. Front USB port? Yup. We've got network. Took a while, but it loaded just about everything. I manually installed Intel chipset drivers at some point, but the rest got in automatically. Intel's DSA found a bit more, and even after Microsoft pushed a UEFI update, DSA hat yet another one. I'm not sure I'll ever get used to it. Lenovo has given me severe PTSD just reading about X1E's Gen1 updates. Never had a problem there but the anxiety never went away. Noise - at ~28C ambient the fan kept pretty much going all the time and it sounds like a typical notebook fan to me. No, not the X1E turbine. 😂 After all the decades of tech, it's still magical how snappy and powerful such a tiny box can be. Now I wish there was an m.2 10G SFP+ adapter for future upgrades.
Strange. Maybe due to a recent BIOS update, but the Intel NUC 13 Pro that I have gets 10215 on the multi-core Geekbench 6 score and 2400 on the single core Geekbench 6 score. I also have 64GB of DDR4 RAM. I don't know if that effects performance that much.
Feels bad to hear all the praise for Intel's NUC team now. Maybe an Intel VP heard you gushing over all the thought that went into the BIOS and decided they must be spending too much money on that department if the product is getting that polished. Hopefully we get an Optane-style fire sale on NUCs, but I doubt it.
I always feel that Intel NUC engineers are like in a completely different building and are not allowed to communicate with the rest of the company. They just sit around thinking about how they can make super awesome and functional machines.
I think they sit close to the Arc guys though.
Except when it comes to CPU cooling, as under sustained loads it sucks.
Judging by the size of intel they probably are
Indeed, instead of gimping everything they go "can it be better?"
Except for USB-A ports though. They really don't seem to like them even when they could fit twice as many AND still have more than enough bandwidth for everything else because USB 2.0 (and honestly 3.0) is so cheap both in cost and computationaly. It's like they're seriously going for "less ports than a notebook" except when it's a selling point.. and USB somehow isn't a selling point to them.
Do they actually make money? Or are they going to go the way of Atom one day?
The amount of shade that Wendell is throwing at Microsoft in this video is top tier.
Shade that is fully earned, mind you.
Yes, but I was expecting something different since it's in the title and not specific to the NUC 13 Pro. However, I see his point on this topic.
I've been daily driving Linux for a year now, because while I could keep using Win10, I want to know how to run Linux for when they force everyone to upgrade.
I'm so far in the shade I am swimming with penguins.
I like it how the editor even switched the audio sample for Wendell talking "DDR4" instead of DDR5 in the original video. Props for the effort when something got suboptimal during the recording.
DDR-4
The ideo of Thunderbolt interconnected cluster (maybe with Proxmox) is just awesome. Essentially it would make a 48 Thread machine with 6 SSDs etc that idles under 30W...
Please do it and keep us posted
Yes! Do This!
The Lord came down to Jesus and he said;
"Yeah, so your job is to make sure that 2023 Years after your death you must ensure that a man named Wendell does an awesome video on a Low-Power Thunderbolt Interconnected Proxmox Cluster using Intel NUC's & SSD's!
This is my word!"
And thus we must ensure this prophecy!
@@longnamedude3947 he never said that
@@blu3_enjoy Well duh, he probably said it in Hebrew or something.
No ECC RAM :(
I'd love to see the first video about implementing a cluster through TrueCommand and maybe a comparison of the same setup with Proxmox!
@@blu3_enjoy Ah yes, my bad, I forgot God doesn't speak English. After all he is a being from beyond our world....
Here it is in the appropriate Klingon tongue, I hope you find this of suitable reading:
HIja'! yItlhap!
bang Qong 'ej SaHchu' ghopDaj.
"HIja', 'ach malja' wIbuStaHvIS, malja' ponglIj lo'taHvIS, malja' puS. nuHmey ghuSchoHl &u'pu'bogh nuvpu' ghu' net chaw'be'.
Qu'vatlh!
'ej qechvam mIpqu'!
Came for the Linux... stayed for the Microsoft slander.
@17:42 I felt that in my soul. We rolled out WUfB 2-3 years ago and it has saved us so much time.
16:30 CEC used to be very common on desktop GPUs, i remember when the feature went away "why does my TV remote not control XBMC any more"
Didn't know that actually used to be commonplace on GPUs. I kind of get why they would not have it (CEC is already a mess for appliance-type devices like game consoles, streaming devices and Blu ray players, let alone a multi-purpose computer that could be connected to multiple monitors), but having to deal with external CEC adapters is an extra hassle for people who do want that kind of functionnality.
@@Riboshom My problem in taking it away is that users could always turn the feature off, and if it caused problems, just turn it off, dont take a useful feature away from likely 10s of thousands of people who use a PC as a set top box, or like me, as a desktop with a monitor, and then have a media app that runs on the TV and is controlled by the remote as if it was a completely separate machine(so i didnt need a seperate device for media)
Boot via iSCSI should be more widely adopted. I like the engineering on this thing. Why upgrade the NUC when you can just plug new drives into your NAS
I dunno, boot from NFS (usually via TFTP) has been around for decades. Oh wait, Windows doesn't do that.
HDMI-CEC would be a nice feature to have on a KVM.
The most bizarre feature of the 1360P is that in an Asrock NUC it has in-band ECC.
Yeah it's never enabled in nucs so far, some i3 models had ecc support for ages but only on very few pro devices
I'd get one of these so badly... i5 version, with 32GB ram, and A770 in eGPU?! Powerhouse on low cost! Great video as always, Wendell n L1T Crew! :D
Look at the NUC 12 Enthusiast. No need for external GPU.
I built the original NUC oh so many years ago. Still use it today as my reliable pc. My other "super fast, higher tech" pcs have been done and gone every 2-3 years or so.
You're hysterical, so much better than the typical products. Very enjoyable.
I like your "Small Form Factor" shows, Wendell. Thank you for yet another! 🇺🇸 😎👍☕
I always give kudos to those who praise Linux!!! I'm retired and somehow managed to convert several older neighbors to the penguin. Keep up the good work!!!
I love how he said Microsoft should use PopOS installation as a cheat sheet for OS installation.. lmao
Yawn. Call me when Linux no longer sucks for actual daily use. It's a great kernel, but a shitty system for anything with graphical interface.
@@VioletGiraffe don't know what distro you're using, but has been my daily driver for over 17 years. Mint, btw, since it reminds the majority of winblows users of XP...
i love the part towards the end of the video where you seem to genuinely question your hearing because of the lack of annoying fan noise, great content as always Wendell
It's a real issue, I swear! My workplace no longer has an incessant hearing test of 15.625kHz because they finally upgraded their last lobby CRT. For all I know, I may be deaf now!
Funny, My NUC was always labelled "workhorse" aswell, your such a gem Wendell. Constantly increasing my knowledge.
Wendell, my suggestion for mad science project is a 40GbE cluster in any of the following configurations:
1 node as a NAS with the NUC head-end using a Thunderbolt dock for a PCIe HBA to host SATA drives, and either:
- compile farm running 'ccache' and 'distcc'
- compute or render farm for scientific apps, video encoding, 3D renders
- video editor workstations clustered to NAS storage
Could be fun.
I would really like to see smaller usb c pd GaN chargers become the norm. It's weird when the psu is bigger than the computer.
I really liked the iGPU performance increase from 10th to 11th gen. One more jump to compete with AMDs 780M and I am onboard. But the Asrock 4x4 Box 7735U is kind of looking better. It's just hard to justify to upgrade to either when I have a 4800U
14th/15th Gen intel is supposed to be really strong using the new Battlemage GPU architecture.
3060 like performance for the bigger model.
I love the NUC, only 2 criticism : the intel driver downloader app (for windows) doesn't have all drivers and the bios update takes a long time. Hardware is amazing though.
Bought my buddy a 5800h beelink mini-pc and he loves it. I had sent him an AMD 9590 + mobo + ram + AIO many years ago and the 5800h is significantly faster which is kinda hilarious how far we have come. These mini-pc are pretty amazing, regardless if AMD or Intel (though I prefer AMD).
I want to see STEAM get their foot in the mini-pc market. They already have the steamdeck.... Imagine a more powerful steamdeck but its a desktop. That would be FREAKING SWEET. The steamdeck has 4 cores 8 threads of Zen2 with 8 CU's of RDNA2 cores.... not bad. Now imagine a 8 core 16 thread desktop variant using newer Zen4 with 20 maybe 30 RDNA3-4 cores. All in a Mini-PC box. Like holy shit. Steam could become the MAC of windows/linux..... high quality stuff in small form factors would be sick. When it comes to price to performance, the Steamdeck is technically unrivaled. You cannot buy anything close to its performance in gaming for the same price. Even if you go small form factor mini-pc like the beelink 5800h, you still technically need a monitor, mouse, keyboard, to go with it. That alone puts you over the price of the steamdeck. And you can't build a new pc system that is faster for the same price either. Sure, used parts, you might find some killer deals, but not likely. you would be lucky to build a used pc to match its performance in gaming for the same price....
Is the 5800h beelink mini-pc the ser5?
I just got a client to order one! I am looking forward to installing Linux on it!
5800h doesn't support AV1 hw codec
@@jakitliang who cares?
Valve already tried their Steam machine initiative and it flopped. It's much easier to make compromises in the name of portability, a SFF PC invites direct comparison to a console and I don't think Valve wants to subsidize the hardware at the same level.
I got these for my freight repair shop.
Got these for my diagnostics computers..ditch the weak laptops.
Also 4 of these for my office and 8 in my diagnostics..amazing little guys..
I'm the boss so I am still rocking the haydess nuc to play games in my office haha.
Really really looking forward the video about the redundancy cluster! What is gonna be build with, Proxmox or TrueCommand/TrueNAS? I understand the praise to Intel but don't forget they're the one to blame for the current culture of not offering the peace of mind of ECC RAM for such a pro oriented product, which is a basic feature for even just a reliable home lab.. and I hate it.
Thanks for the detailed video!
10:30 ; I worked at a pretty decent sized warehouse (30,000ish sqft) with a half a dozen docks and ground level doors as well where the new CFO refused to run the exhaust system because it was rather expensive. Dust would accumulate so thick that you could visually notice height differences on flat objects if they didn't move for a while. They managed to kill both a desktop pc and an air compressor, and massively accelerated wear and tear on very expensive equipment from just not cleaning it out. It baffles me that someone can make their way up into C-suite positions making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and regardless of how many times you tell them dust bad, dust cost you money that they don't comprehend it.
Nice video, super interested in the thunderbolt p2p networking concept!
I wonder how this work with clear Linux installed.
very keen to see the Thunderbolt cluster. Specifically with Proxmox and Ceph. have a boot B-key SSD with a nice large 4TB M.2 in each node. Would love to see the disk latency numbers.
Great! Subscribed. I got Nuc 12 Pro Kit, used Windows 11 on it for a month or two, and I'm back on Linux. The difference is heaven and earth in Linux favor.
i have to point out that the OOBE that microsoft drags users (paying customers in most cases btw) through is handled by many linux installers WHILE they're installing AND updating so that when you do restart, you can just use your machine already. macos is only _slightly_ less painful than windows' oobe, although their installation process is egregiously slow.
That $550 mini PC on amazon with the 7735h/6800H with 32GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD is really tempting, but i really want the 7740H with RDNA3 and hopefully AV1 encode.
Every time I've considered one of those low cost/high value mini PCs like a Minisforum or Beelink (and they are super tempting), I check out their support sites and see an absolute void of BIOS support and think, "I'm not sure I want to deal with this if there are weird glitches or quirks that will never be resolved". I'm sure the support is out there somewhere if you do enough digging / can read Mandarin / look up suppliers. Not sure that's what I want to do with my spare time.
@@mapwheel00 Lenovo is often ahead of these smaller manufactures, but generally waits for the full socketable desktop variant, and are often more expensive, though i did pick up a 4750GE tiny for $488 in December 2019, was the machine i used to bring AMD PSB (on the consumer desktop) to the attention of Serve the Home and L1 Techs, previously it was thought to only be enabled by default on servers.
Every NuC review makes me want one, then every time I check prices I nope out
eBay is your friend, a lot of abandoned projects end up there. I just grabbed a fully kitted Tall NUC 12 i7 for $650usd
I used Winget on my last wipe and reinstall of Windows and IT SAVED ME SO MUCH TIME IT'S AWESOME
"Something I think will make a very interesting video over on the Linux channel..." - me too, please: make this (and many other) video(s) over on the Linux channel.
Please, don't forget.
I'm doing not-so-light programming tasks on a Core i5-8500T Thinkcentre, and it's not bad at all. This machine would be like a spaceship in comparison.
"You can play a click adventure", huh. Just played through the Mass Effect Legendary Edition trilogy on the built-in UHD630 in native 1080p and max graphics settings. Currently playing ME Andromeda which is A LOT more taxing, but still playable.
You can do the oobe\bypassnro at first setup, you dont have to do it at the connect network stage, save you dooing language and keyboard etc twice
When asked to log in to your microsoft account just type admin as your email and admin as your password, then you can log in with a local account. :D
@@dreaper2087 No, you dont need to have a Microsoft account.
It's just like the cmd bypass where you skip entering Microsoft account and create a local account.
I just think its easier :D
@@dreaper2087 Personally I agree Linux, but my clients want windows
@Linden Reaper It's got nothing to do with wants. The software requires Windows. It's only avalible for Windows server, and all clients must be Windows.
@Linden Reaper Well it is my problem and my bosses problem. I whould love to move them to linux but we run a busniss and having everyone on linux and not paying for licences isn't profitible
I've always loved the sff. Back when shuttle first started making cases and pre-builts.
I bought one of these mini-pc's. It came with Win-11. I didn't even boot windows and booted and installed Linux right over it instead. So, yeah, don't even bother. ~10W with 6 cores 12T and 64G of ram is sweet.
If you create a bootable Win 11 USB with Rufus you can do stuff like disable the requirement to be online, skip the privacy questions, etc
Another interesting offering. Lately been looking at MinisForum UM560XT and the SER5 of Beelink for a €350 - €400 price range but I'm assuming this NUC will be more expensive :(
Yeah, quite a bit more expensive.
Beelink gtr6 is nearly same price but more power efficient and more powerful than this one.. You should check it...
450 USD
@@zeus1117 Yea American prices don't work in Europe 😁
Keep "Black Eyeing" Microsoft Wendell ! I am thinking about purchasing a NUC soon for testing and Virtualization
13th gen even on desktop is really efficient - if you disable all the automatic Overclocking crap. Still loving the 12600K that i gave a relative. Never even hit TDP during full turbo in stresstests. Tested it on a few motherboards but stuck with a B660 - decent integrated wifi and bluetooth, same performance as on Z690 (and the auto-OC on that board drove it to > 150W for not even 5% more performance)
yeah I never understood people with OC wishes.
Oh yes please do a video on Thunderbolt p2p networking!!! 🤩
It's funny how it becomes more and more common for multiple channels to really dunk on windows on the same day. LTT just posted a video on Atlas OS, the stripped down version of windows that actually works at the speeds windows would be capable of.
I'm pretty sure this small PC runs circles around the HP-9000s and IBM RS-6000s we used to run logistics software for the EU distribution centers of several international producers, warehouse management for a large car manufacturer and so on.
Today it's barely good enough for small spreadsheets and some slides or light web development. Something went wrong and it went badly wrong!
I am loving these small form factor PC's as my daily driver, and then I can dedicate my high-powered rig just to gaming and nothing else. It's a WIN-WIN situation.😃
DO THE LINUX VIDEO about the cluster!! There are dozens of us! DOZENS
This is interesting, and I love the channel. The tune is horrendous, please don't let it lurk in the background of the presentation.
Wendell, you are my hero. I love what you do. Glued.
Most of these features are on Skull Canyon 6th gen NUC, Crazy awesome bios, I'm guessing that was the first intel fully featued visual bios version of what is now near perfection. The HDMI-CEC, ISCSI, only a single thunderbolt 3 though, so no high speed cluster possibilities 😞
Microsoft could easily dismiss any FTC issue about Microsoft accounts during setup by saying that network setup is only 'recommended' and that it's already documented how people can use the Shift+F10 way for an 'advanced' setup experience. But the FTC won't do anything because that would be a precedent requiring FTC to get involved in Apple's requirement to have an Apple ID. And would possibly extend to other anti-competitive behaviors of Apple including right to repair. Apple is like FTCs favored child or a third rail.
"Apple's requirement to have an Apple ID"
You can absolutely use a Mac without Apple ID; just without sync, the app marketplace, etc.
So, the latest iPhones aren't locked to require an Apple ID or to own some other Apple device to set up? You can actually get a new iPhone (with no other Apple product or service at all) and use it as a phone instead of a drink coaster?
3 x NUC 13 Thunderbolt 4 cluster - this is very interesting.
Really wish all the small machines like this would just use USB-C for power. I know MinisForum has some like that and my LattePanda does too.
uhhh holy shit the weight diff. Well done good sir
Just ordered a much less expensive (11th gen) N5105 based system (16 GB/512 GB) for $159....! Looking forward to it's arrival!
It would be great to see 3 of these in a VMware cluster! now that would be an awesome homelab!
Yeah these are great for that, you can get a 12NUC 3U rackmount for them. We have a rack full of em and they are super powerful and very efficient
LGTVs support IP control as well. If you're using the network port anyway, no need for a silly USBSerial connection, especially since consumer TVs don't often have the serial port on them let alone the computer, you can still do the IP control thing. I feel the pain though. I've had to install LGTV Companion to get it to support turning off and on the TV automatically, but it does have its faults.
Funny as I am watching this video on my NUC 6i7KYK Skull Canyon. Only have had to replace the fan a few times, but otherwise its been good, although its going to be retired at some point to a new tower computer. Great video sir! 👍
These are also perfect for strapping onto robots, the boston spot, has a special passive version they sell.
I didn't even think about a Thunderbolt networking cluster. He's an evil genius!
the only case i know which got a wireless charging port thats decent is the bequiet dark base 900 pro rev.2 when it got released i got it for 220€ inclusive shipping, now its 300 bucks. insane that prices went up for cases too.
windows 11 will install on older CPU than 8th gen so long as TPM 2.0 is present (which most consumer items will lack, but most corporate machines will have, ex, optiplex micros, lenovo thinkcenter mini's, thinkpads, latitudes.
Install, meaning without hacks and without blockers from MS, and with full support for windows updates post-install. Tested on a thinkpad T440p (4th gen intel) and a thinkcenter with an i5-6500T.
I’m interested in seeing how and why one might create a thunderbolt cluster for these on their network. I want to do basic things like pihole and other network services as well as smart hub replacement software so having low downtime is preferable.
Im still on nuc8i7, i think im gonna get this one. Thanks for the video.
Loved it when you said tiny form factor in a Toweli voice 😂
Man, if we could give multiple likes here, this would be the video to do so. Just for the exposure to the issues in the Windows 11 installation requiring an account and not being easy to bypass for not technically inclined users.
7:14 I could feel my own anger boiling up and then I saw red, well done team
had to install linux on an old one, i wasn't gonna screw around disabling bits on a nuc just to install windows, it's like the bad ol days when you needed a floppy disk at install time to get a raid chip working, that you probably didn't want at all. i seem to remember once having to do that for a network card.
Ok, we need a guide for utilizing the Thunderbolt 3/4 ports as back hauls for Ceph etc.
Office drones all have laptops since COVID hit. So now we're always at work. This type of machine is essentially redundant for that sector.
21:42 This momentary epiphany was hilarious 😆
I got the NUC 10 Performance (Tall) and it is a beast.
This will complete my 4 node cluster, NUC's Gen 10 - 13.
They already blocked shift f10 on home 11.
Haven't watched a video of yours in a while. You must be down almost 30 kg. Congrats on the weight loss.
No one ever seems to mention that you can tell the Windows installer that you want to add the computer a local domain and it will give you a local user as well.
I am interested to see a NUC running an SQL Server. Bonus points if you can demonstrate Data Transparency Encryption.
Need to be able to remote into the NUC to update databases.
Wendel, mad science idea here, get a few extra nodes in that thunderbolt network and make a 21st century 40gbit token ring setup!
Most of what you said about MS was the reason why i use only Linux for the last 2 years , and I'm relaxed 😁
Good for you that you have all the necessary SW under Linux working. I would be on Linux already too, but music production and the high-end VSTs are necessary for me. So only MacOS and Win10 stay in the game.
i wish the motherboard manufacturers would start putting those chips on mini-ITX boards so we can use them in NAS Builds for example 😕
😆 At this point I don't see why they don't just add a 80mm low RPM/profile fan on the bottom with a proper filter, it would cost pennies and solve all problems regarding temps, dust and noise. Ain't like you need to avoid the extra 4cm of height consider all peripherals still hold a standard size, also add a Bluetooth 5.0 internally to promote wireless devices usage.
17:55 Works also on Linux with fwupd.
You can turn on and off the LG's via their Ethernet ports as well. So you could send out the turn on in a script as the computer boots. 😁👍
They need to releases their new core processors already. Meteor lake will make the NUC more interesting with the upgraded iGPU.
Still waiitng for NUC 12 to drop in price some more here in Australia so I can finally replace my old Skull Canyon NUC from 2014.
Woh where can I get that desktop wallpaper???
I see some new advancements in large monitor wallpaper backdrop tech!
We use tons of these for test fixtures. Also don't tell my boss I could totally work on one (but have a newer $2500 ThinkPad instead). Nothing I compile is much larger than 256KB.
I also use a LG TV for gaming it's the C2 65 inch.
I use a NUC with an i5 7260U, 2 core, 4 thread CPU, to run Ubuntu and Octoprint for my 3D Printer. Night and day difference when compared to the Pi 3B I was using before…. Saving files to a NVME drive vs a SD card, yes please… Best $130 dollars on eBay I have ever spent!
I've bought Vivobook with i3-1220p, it came without windows preinstalled, and the worst thing was that it bricked 1 pendrive with windows install on it, it hasn't seen two others so I needed to find the oldest one that I had in house, really and that pendrive was just 4GB which forced me to download tiny11 which barely fit on that pendrive :D not to mention that I needed to add some intel drivers because it also couldn't see a Micron NVME SSD lol. The struggle was real but in same time that little i3-1220p is a fast powerful bastard for simple things like web browsing, or playing some old games.
Hi Wendell! Have you considered a thunderbolt vs. M.2 adapter comparison for networking on a cutie little PC like this? Also, was there a reason you weren't using the logitech dongle to sidestep Bluetooth?
Awesome video thanks for sharing
I've skipped through the video again but apparently missed the Windows problem bit.
Got a NUC13ANHi7 (tall) recently, put some RAM (KF432S20IBK2/64) and an SSD (SKC3000D/2048G) in and went to install Windows 11. Wait, has it just crashed? Let's try that again. Removed power, went back and no, not a crash, the device just didn't have ANY networking, nor option to skip anything or try again. No WiFi? Is the cable broken? The the replacement as well? Why is my ancient switch only showing a sort of connection at 100Mbit? Odd. Ah well, SHIFT F10, OOBE and there we go.
It has been a VERY long time since I've seen this much yellow in the device manager! A throwback to the olden days. I'm not sure where the hiccup started, a lack of chipset or networking drivers, but something kept both the Intel AX211 and 226-V from being recognized and apparently fully initializing. Yes, Windows 11 22H2 had initially been released before the NUC 13 Pro, but I kind of expected a recent ISO to contain at least some form of driver to get the thing going. It's not even exotic hardware.
I had an ASIX AX AmazonBasics USB adapter on a shelf. Back USB port? Nope. Front USB port? Yup. We've got network. Took a while, but it loaded just about everything. I manually installed Intel chipset drivers at some point, but the rest got in automatically. Intel's DSA found a bit more, and even after Microsoft pushed a UEFI update, DSA hat yet another one. I'm not sure I'll ever get used to it. Lenovo has given me severe PTSD just reading about X1E's Gen1 updates. Never had a problem there but the anxiety never went away.
Noise - at ~28C ambient the fan kept pretty much going all the time and it sounds like a typical notebook fan to me. No, not the X1E turbine. 😂
After all the decades of tech, it's still magical how snappy and powerful such a tiny box can be.
Now I wish there was an m.2 10G SFP+ adapter for future upgrades.
TY!! For the info on how to bypass the Windows connect to the internet thing. Treasure.
So when are they going to release a Ryzen based NUC? I would buy that.
Strange. Maybe due to a recent BIOS update, but the Intel NUC 13 Pro that I have gets 10215 on the multi-core Geekbench 6 score and 2400 on the single core Geekbench 6 score. I also have 64GB of DDR4 RAM. I don't know if that effects performance that much.
A mad project, if you can call it that way, maybe will be you can use the NUC to a Container Server or something, and if you cluster maybe kubernetes.
I have a NUC8 powering my home arcade machine with an eGPU to a 1650 for some 3D Street fighter games
Feels bad to hear all the praise for Intel's NUC team now. Maybe an Intel VP heard you gushing over all the thought that went into the BIOS and decided they must be spending too much money on that department if the product is getting that polished.
Hopefully we get an Optane-style fire sale on NUCs, but I doubt it.
That cardasian neck trick reference