@@TSOTSO511 If I'm not mistaken, (and always regarding situations of immediate press from both lili and Yoshi) the low option can sometimes hit lili out of Matterhorn, but sometimes it hits on its second frame, and in those instances it's a trade. (where lili gets CH launched and Yoshi gets tornado'ed, so it's kind of an even situation, though lili recovers significantly faster)
CBM is amazing at punishing and converting combos to wall carry and then playing calm to end the round. That lili round 2 like he said was doing too much and got perfected twice, as a Jin main I need to take notes and not go crazy when I want the round to be over
Fun fact, you can matterhorn every option out of yoshimistu fly if you are fast enough. Even after eating the stupid whirlwind frame trap thing. It does indeed evade the mid.
This is why I don't put too much stock in tier lists! Of course there will always be a pecking order but I believe if you're good enough you can always come out on top!
I'll be brutally honest here because it's usually the case in most fighting games A lot of you arent good enough (including me) to know what a good or bad matchup is. A game as technical as Tekken makes this statement doubly true.
I think what you say is true, but also that a good or bad match up for casuals will be dependent on our comfort level against the other character. I'll use arbitrary numbers but maybe 50-60% of the time its comfort level against the character, skill gap between players would be another 30-40% and the final 10-20% would be the match up itself. That's my casual take on it lol
Tekken as a System is so complex, varied, and Balanced that the statement isn't even as applicable. I've played an ACTUAL Low Tier in a Fighting Game. Tekken Players have no idea how good they have it. There are no actual 2:8 Matchups. I've played on the 20% side in other Fighting Games. Tekken is Balanced ASF, because even the weaker Characters have a shot for sure just because of the nature of the System.
Lili, Alisa, or any characters with advanced movement and midrange force him to slow down and rely mostly on b+2, 1 and defense. Definatly his worst matchups
CBM's pop-off after beating lili. I guess he got his revenge against Chikurin... iirc Chikurin destroyed every korean players in Evo Japan, including CBM getting 2-0'd.
I love fighting games but dont play. I never been an avid tekken watcher then I watched a vid on you and been subbed since. Keep doing these breakdowns you make these things that seem intangible make sense.
I don’t see why people dislike main characters being optimal for games. Like shotos in sf 6 are all pretty decent characters but also there is a lot of room for varied style gameplay. It’s just to kinda get you into the game is all. I mean I’m the type of person who plays off of feel more than tier lists. So I might start with base players but getting comfortable helps learn the game and eases me into playing other characters
2 Jins in TWT Finals Top 8. Zero Alisas. Even though she's an "easy character" that anyone can pick up. This is why I can't take anyone who puts Alisa above Jin seriously. Her strength is extremely overrated by people who don't know enough about her. Meanwhile Jin has a 14f WS launcher, 15f hopkick, amazing 11f WS punish, electric (amazing whiff launcher), hellsweep, d2 (high damage homing high crush CH launching low that's only -14 ob), 10f punish that wallsplats, amazing heat smash that can wallsplat from a MILE away and does a wall stun, parry that parries nearly everything, great mids, great lows, etc
Hey weird question but I’ve been playing kazuya a lot more lately and just wondered she is it a good time to do electric wind god fist? I know it’s a good move but idk when to use it
Haven't watched the full video yet but I just wanna say that the 2 most prominent Jin's I've seen in tournament, those being CBM and Raef, are fucking nutty players Jin is strong as hell but there are reasons he's picked less over the top 4, especially in tournament, the level of consistency these two have reached is not easy to find or attain, I have mad respect for them
lol I know Jin is strong but everyone seems to think he doesn’t have bad matchups. I’m not saying he’s weak by any means but the way people over-rate the character as some unbeatable god is absurd. There are characters that give Jin a very hard time. Like a good Kazuya player or Lee. For example Kazuya can launch all my lows except for d4 but I guess if you loose to Jin it’s because the character is brain dead and not a reflection of your skill.
I can't speak for others but Kazuya being a bad matchup for Jin is... something new. Not all of your lows actually are launch punishable. Take 134 for example, which should be punished by Twin Pistons but you can't because it whiffs. Jin parry also can OS things like df1 series. I also think Jin's poke game and small Tekken or range 1 Tekken is much better than Kazuya's. I'd personally say Jin still has the edge and not the other way around. Someone like Lee or a good Lili... maybe is a bad matchup? But I'd like to hear more reasons why you say this.
@@skadixiu the fact that you’re wrong is already funny in general, but that your reply shows that you didn’t even manage to understand what OP wrote is hilarious.
There's truly no real 'bad match-ups' in Tekken 8 though. Not like it traditionally is in 2D fighters. Tekken is too versatile and complicated for there to be any bad match-ups because every character has so many moves and tools in any given position. And Alisa isn't particularly hard for Jin, she's just a manace for everybody because she's so strong.
people think just bc a character is fundamentally better, means that they cant have specific bad matchups. that's like saying a lvl 10 fire type should not lose to lvl 9 water type. its like a basic mechanic that exists in most games.
@PhiDX i was genuinely asking bc as a purple rank alissa players in my region, only know how to attack. I play azucena, and the matchup is harder for me than someone using jin or other top tiers
I don't really play Azucena myself, but i got some experience playing against my friend who is an alisa main And I don't really know ur specific problem, but i know how it feels to get confused against alisa. ~~ I used say that i can't handle alisa's offense when i reach purple for the first time and ramble on reddit. So i will give some advice from my experience For the basic stuff... ~~ I assume when you say many alisa you face play aggressively and only know how to attack, i think that you might have a matchup problem, not the "unwinnable" one, but learn to punish properly and actually learn to attack as well (create a character specific gameplan and adapt to theirs on the run). For pressure problems ~~ Know that alisa can space control really well and chainsaw can be underwhelming at times. She also got some jailing move you need to be aware like d4,1+2 that also got some pushback... 2,2 is a good punish, so don't commit to finish string too often cause one knockdown can cause a myriad of chainsaw attacks while you guess from the wall. People who spam a lot tends to lose against jab, powercrush, sidestep, rage art, and new addition to tekken 8, the heat system. Then if you got some problem with ur own move, the one that you consider cheap and cheese (maybe powercrush and rage art), don't be ashame to use them here and then. Your ego might be ur number 1 enemy. Tekken is a really complex game, there is no such thing as unwinnable matchup in my opinion. I can't give some specific advice, since i don't really encounter Azucena a lot recently, they kinda died down on my region since the big nerf. Here some advice that might help you: - Probably play with ur stance, utilize the mixups... - Stick with jab games, be more patient on ur rushdown gameplay so you can take a breath to block and punish properly... - Uuh chainsaw can't be parried, haha - Fish alisa to play big move, and try to utilise ur "counter hit property" moves ~~ After mastering the basics, maybe play some mind games, cuz azu's personality is kind of a troll and I've seen a lot of people saying that alisa's main are carried... Time to put that theory into a test! Finally if you really got a grudge or you know, still confused and frustrated and dreaded while learning the matchup, try to play her instead (you'll learn much faster if you encounter a fellow azu main using alisa) or watch some breakdown on alisa's play and familiar azu youtuber. One that i found by quick search is Tk_Bilal_Kaka and Kaizur, PhiDX also cover some alisa matches here and then. Learning matchup from tekken youtuber can probably be more entertaining for you than to just hop in practice lobby or playing as her (if you got a grudge). Otherwise, top tier character are as annoying to the casuals, just like pro, who: A. Don't know matchups (for example the Yoshi on this video who don't know proper punish) or, B. Don't know how to handle pressure and alisa's gameplan like CBM who already lab a lot cuz he got hate alisa, like he got some history choking against chanel and cuddlecore, therefor he can punish most alisa's mistakes properly and eventually get used to play against alisa You really should not take pro player's rant too seriously, cause they are still biased and most rant don't really applicable in general due to different matchup situations or simply mindset, i guess... Hope this helps, sorry if this is too general ps. i'm a king main who don't really play alisa or azucena@@LeDanc
TLDR; don't even bother with matchup opinions. You can't really pick ur enemy. Learn the matchups so you can up ur game to another layer of tekken and don't forget to have fun while doing so :)
Worst Jin matchup is Lili and any other matchup doesn't come even close. It is objectively measurable and probably the worst matchup in the franchise. She has the power to ignore Jin's homing mids evading from below *while simultaneously auto-low parrying* so there is no button on your movelist _in itself_ that can hit her. Lili literally has an anti-movelist tech where the entirety of Jin's movelist will be negated in itself and the only way to circumvent it is through exposing yourself with extra frames and going for realigment techs followed by generous hitbox, low-reaching mids. By doing so, you give her æons of exposure where every option from her beyond this exclusive anti-Jin tech will kill you through frame mathematics alone because you gave up tons of frames in order to create realignment. Alisa doesn't even come close to the broken matchup that is Jin vs Lili. Jin vs Alisa only issue is she can sidewalk d4 just like Lili and she can sidewalk db4 to the strong side just like Lili. (You also have to be cautious of her broken backdash to not whiff d4 and db4.) Other than that, she is nowhere NEAR close to Lili. She can't casually ignore and negate *Jin bf2* like Lili can. You can still give the Jin vs Alisa matchup a semblance of sanity through bf2 and other mid checks. *Mid checks exist* against Alisa. She doesn't get the power to casually ignore your tracker mids and your homing mids like Lili.
Hey, I'm still pretty new to tekken but not new to fighting games or advanced option selects and stuff like that. Could you explain a little bit more about what you're talking about here? Does her crouch dash go under some mids, and the input also acts as a low parry? Is that like the general idea?
Anyone who plays Alissa pretty much all of them are just awful at the game. I see them all the time try to make excuses and say how they are actually good but no your not.
Jin is actually a bad matchup for Alisa, he can *launch punish* 2 of her main lows (SBT 3 and DES d2) with his 14 frame WS2, and he can parry in-between some of her safe strings to punish her. He's one of the ONLY characters who can do this. We need to stop listening to players whining on twitter. CBM in particular has no right to whine about other characters when his main is THIS busted.
If Alisa is an unwinnable matchup for Jin, I'm wondering what adjective would be appropriate for the matchup of Alisa vs a character without an i13 homing, safe long-range mid lockdown strings and the best punishment in the game.
Hey man, I just hit Garyu as Jin, any tips you have for me to get to Purple ranks? My current gameplan is a simple one with 214, delaying the 4 and doing F4 frame traps when I get the frame.
@@voltaicthief646 Don’t go into stance as much unless you have layered your offense, USE MIDS because everyone knows the Jin matchup and will duck, use D4 and don’t spam D2 and know your punishes (especially 10, 12 and 13 frames)
Multiple reasons. 1 dj does it raw where jin is in stance opening you up in the beginning 2 dj is more evasive kflies higher and further back 3dj is a heat engager 4 the devs didn't like how strong dj has been for damn near 20 years
because Jin’s is locked to a mid check-able stance, is slow as hell, and lacks the innate evasion of Wicked Jambu Spear. you’re literally comparing 2 completely different moves. this is like comparing Kaz’s EWGF, to Paul’s DF2. sure they’re both uppercuts… and that’s it lmao
While being true, she still counters him. Comparing by kit, jin is fundamentally better, but alisa's kit makes her a bad matchup for him even when he's better. Imagine in pokemon a fire type and water type 1v1s the same normal type, and the fire one has higher stats than the water one. Fire would have a better chance beating the normal type, but against each other, water type would more likely win against the fire type.
lets be honest , jin doesnt have bad matchups... some characters are harder than others, yes sure, happens to every character and even per player... but this is not a matchup problem, this is an alisa problem... everybody has a "bad matchup" if they find an alisa that knows what she is doing xb
The reason he conquered it is becauase jin players suck and ride jin like a cowboy, it leaves them careless, why care when everything always works. I made this comment before i realized bro was playing alisa, they can both fall of cliff at this point
These videos are an early Christmas for me, thanks a ton Phi! I hope TWT finals end up being some of the best tekken matches of the year ❤
People didn’t watch the whole video and have already jumped to conclusions. Classic
Conclusions such as?
Clickbait titles are hated for a reason.
@Yurilica yea people get upset bc they dumb 😂. If you can't spot a click bait title you deserve to be tricked
Maybe don't put such a thick headed title on a video to not get conclusion jumps?
Ancient aliens.confirmed.I guess
5:32 interesting wording Mr.PhiDX
5:29
Man knew what he was doing, did you not look at his face 😅
19:17 Matterhorn also evade the Mid here. If Im not mistaken Matterhorn deletes all options except for Yoshi to cancel the stance into block.
Also loses to Yoshi low option.
@@TSOTSO511 If I'm not mistaken, (and always regarding situations of immediate press from both lili and Yoshi) the low option can sometimes hit lili out of Matterhorn, but sometimes it hits on its second frame, and in those instances it's a trade. (where lili gets CH launched and Yoshi gets tornado'ed, so it's kind of an even situation, though lili recovers significantly faster)
The fucking look at the camera when Phi says that shit 5:29
i said " pause " for him in that moment
He believes in his Heart
Keep going brother. You got this 💪🏾
CBM is amazing at punishing and converting combos to wall carry and then playing calm to end the round. That lili round 2 like he said was doing too much and got perfected twice, as a Jin main I need to take notes and not go crazy when I want the round to be over
CBM winning with Jin is a sight to see. Congratulations dude!
Thanks PhiD! I'm loving this quantity and quality of vids!
"A bad matchup is never truly unplayable"...Brother never played Gigas vs Jin I reckon.
Or DJ vs Feng
"too many holes for Alisa to fill" followed by the stare into my soul took me out bro
One step closer to top 8 recap!
Fun fact, you can matterhorn every option out of yoshimistu fly if you are fast enough. Even after eating the stupid whirlwind frame trap thing. It does indeed evade the mid.
Alisa the most carried character in the game
7:46 Dragunov can also do that with f3,1+2 (can't have heat or else he'll heat engage) into rage art for 80-100 damage (depending on Drag's hp)
Phi should host a tournament
CBM is just so fun to watch! great jin
"A skilled Jin can beat any Alisa"
Great commentary as usual
There’s a reason CBM is the best Jin in the world
Dude I had to rewind to watch the first two matches of Chikurin vs CBM. So much happened so quickly I couldn't process it lol.
This is why I don't put too much stock in tier lists! Of course there will always be a pecking order but I believe if you're good enough you can always come out on top!
7:50 similar to Alisa, Dragunov's F3,1+2 also leads into a Rage Art. The move isnt that great in neutral, but it's an alright wiff punish.
I'll be brutally honest here because it's usually the case in most fighting games
A lot of you arent good enough (including me) to know what a good or bad matchup is. A game as technical as Tekken makes this statement doubly true.
I think what you say is true, but also that a good or bad match up for casuals will be dependent on our comfort level against the other character. I'll use arbitrary numbers but maybe 50-60% of the time its comfort level against the character, skill gap between players would be another 30-40% and the final 10-20% would be the match up itself. That's my casual take on it lol
@OSeanSanO I'd consider myself a casual, but I do understand that even bad characters can be good against top tiers because of matchups
Tekken as a System is so complex, varied, and Balanced that the statement isn't even as applicable. I've played an ACTUAL Low Tier in a Fighting Game. Tekken Players have no idea how good they have it. There are no actual 2:8 Matchups. I've played on the 20% side in other Fighting Games. Tekken is Balanced ASF, because even the weaker Characters have a shot for sure just because of the nature of the System.
Lili, Alisa, or any characters with advanced movement and midrange force him to slow down and rely mostly on b+2, 1 and defense. Definatly his worst matchups
CBM has such good vibes. Very likable guy.
CBM's pop-off after beating lili. I guess he got his revenge against Chikurin... iirc Chikurin destroyed every korean players in Evo Japan, including CBM getting 2-0'd.
I love fighting games but dont play. I never been an avid tekken watcher then I watched a vid on you and been subbed since. Keep doing these breakdowns you make these things that seem intangible make sense.
I don’t see why people dislike main characters being optimal for games. Like shotos in sf 6 are all pretty decent characters but also there is a lot of room for varied style gameplay. It’s just to kinda get you into the game is all. I mean I’m the type of person who plays off of feel more than tier lists. So I might start with base players but getting comfortable helps learn the game and eases me into playing other characters
Shoto and varied gameplay do not belong in the same sentence lmao
2 Jins in TWT Finals Top 8. Zero Alisas. Even though she's an "easy character" that anyone can pick up. This is why I can't take anyone who puts Alisa above Jin seriously. Her strength is extremely overrated by people who don't know enough about her.
Meanwhile Jin has a 14f WS launcher, 15f hopkick, amazing 11f WS punish, electric (amazing whiff launcher), hellsweep, d2 (high damage homing high crush CH launching low that's only -14 ob), 10f punish that wallsplats, amazing heat smash that can wallsplat from a MILE away and does a wall stun, parry that parries nearly everything, great mids, great lows, etc
18:07 are we just going to not address how lily uses punishable heat Engaing moves in heat as mind games to avoid punishment from yoshi
Hey weird question but I’ve been playing kazuya a lot more lately and just wondered she is it a good time to do electric wind god fist? I know it’s a good move but idk when to use it
try to make the opponent whiff with movement and punish with electric. or use electric to pressure because it's +5 on block
27:35 I like this Lily move, side step karate chop. It's just satisfying and fun to see it. I don't know why. ) She also funny shouts "Kiya!"
Mustaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard!!!
Haven't watched the full video yet but I just wanna say that the 2 most prominent Jin's I've seen in tournament, those being CBM and Raef, are fucking nutty players
Jin is strong as hell but there are reasons he's picked less over the top 4, especially in tournament, the level of consistency these two have reached is not easy to find or attain, I have mad respect for them
lol I know Jin is strong but everyone seems to think he doesn’t have bad matchups. I’m not saying he’s weak by any means but the way people over-rate the character as some unbeatable god is absurd. There are characters that give Jin a very hard time. Like a good Kazuya player or Lee. For example Kazuya can launch all my lows except for d4 but I guess if you loose to Jin it’s because the character is brain dead and not a reflection of your skill.
I can't speak for others but Kazuya being a bad matchup for Jin is... something new. Not all of your lows actually are launch punishable. Take 134 for example, which should be punished by Twin Pistons but you can't because it whiffs. Jin parry also can OS things like df1 series. I also think Jin's poke game and small Tekken or range 1 Tekken is much better than Kazuya's. I'd personally say Jin still has the edge and not the other way around. Someone like Lee or a good Lili... maybe is a bad matchup? But I'd like to hear more reasons why you say this.
Just because Kaz can launch db4 does not make it a bad matchup at all lol. Jins neutral, poking and space control completely dominates Kazuya.
You lost me up until you said he's braindead and so are you for playing him btw
What rank are you (I’m lower ranked)
@@skadixiu the fact that you’re wrong is already funny in general, but that your reply shows that you didn’t even manage to understand what OP wrote is hilarious.
i don't watch a lot but this is the first I've seen of Alisa in comps for 8.
Yea you don’t watch a lot lol.
how did chikurin do the move off the wall???
B, B, UB with your back to the wall
There's truly no real 'bad match-ups' in Tekken 8 though. Not like it traditionally is in 2D fighters. Tekken is too versatile and complicated for there to be any bad match-ups because every character has so many moves and tools in any given position.
And Alisa isn't particularly hard for Jin, she's just a manace for everybody because she's so strong.
There are bad matchups in this game. Plus frames and obnoxious strings.
Yeah if Alisa can side step EWHF to the left (!) it's not a match up thing at this point. She's just top-tier.
@@SquashMelendez No.
@@SquashMelendez No.
@@SquashMelendez No.
Yes yoshi can still block Matterhorn if he cancels the stance so it's not a true OS cuz he doesn't get hit no matter wat
They nerf Lili but Jim stays unreasonable lol
people think just bc a character is fundamentally better, means that they cant have specific bad matchups. that's like saying a lvl 10 fire type should not lose to lvl 9 water type. its like a basic mechanic that exists in most games.
Jin has no bad matchups..He has everything and more
@@Space_Pirate97 The guy below you
@@azteckjumbie9344ok scrub
@@azteckjumbie9344finally some common sense
5:27 cmon mane
Damn I didn't know Alisa was such a freak... 💀
And he said it with a straight face too 😭😂
Can someone tell me what's supposed to be the unwinnable match-up? I couldn't find it anywhere
1:21
It's just a clickbait title, dude... To summon the tierwh*re
@PhiDX i was genuinely asking bc as a purple rank alissa players in my region, only know how to attack. I play azucena, and the matchup is harder for me than someone using jin or other top tiers
I don't really play Azucena myself, but i got some experience playing against my friend who is an alisa main
And I don't really know ur specific problem, but i know how it feels to get confused against alisa.
~~ I used say that i can't handle alisa's offense when i reach purple for the first time and ramble on reddit. So i will give some advice from my experience
For the basic stuff...
~~ I assume when you say many alisa you face play aggressively and only know how to attack, i think that you might have a matchup problem, not the "unwinnable" one, but learn to punish properly and actually learn to attack as well (create a character specific gameplan and adapt to theirs on the run).
For pressure problems
~~ Know that alisa can space control really well and chainsaw can be underwhelming at times. She also got some jailing move you need to be aware like d4,1+2 that also got some pushback... 2,2 is a good punish, so don't commit to finish string too often cause one knockdown can cause a myriad of chainsaw attacks while you guess from the wall. People who spam a lot tends to lose against jab, powercrush, sidestep, rage art, and new addition to tekken 8, the heat system. Then if you got some problem with ur own move, the one that you consider cheap and cheese (maybe powercrush and rage art), don't be ashame to use them here and then. Your ego might be ur number 1 enemy.
Tekken is a really complex game, there is no such thing as unwinnable matchup in my opinion. I can't give some specific advice, since i don't really encounter Azucena a lot recently, they kinda died down on my region since the big nerf. Here some advice that might help you:
- Probably play with ur stance, utilize the mixups...
- Stick with jab games, be more patient on ur rushdown gameplay so you can take a breath to block and punish properly...
- Uuh chainsaw can't be parried, haha
- Fish alisa to play big move, and try to utilise ur "counter hit property" moves
~~ After mastering the basics, maybe play some mind games, cuz azu's personality is kind of a troll and I've seen a lot of people saying that alisa's main are carried... Time to put that theory into a test!
Finally if you really got a grudge or you know, still confused and frustrated and dreaded while learning the matchup, try to play her instead (you'll learn much faster if you encounter a fellow azu main using alisa) or watch some breakdown on alisa's play and familiar azu youtuber. One that i found by quick search is Tk_Bilal_Kaka and Kaizur, PhiDX also cover some alisa matches here and then. Learning matchup from tekken youtuber can probably be more entertaining for you than to just hop in practice lobby or playing as her (if you got a grudge). Otherwise, top tier character are as annoying to the casuals, just like pro, who:
A. Don't know matchups (for example the Yoshi on this video who don't know proper punish) or,
B. Don't know how to handle pressure and alisa's gameplan like CBM who already lab a lot cuz he got hate alisa, like he got some history choking against chanel and cuddlecore, therefor he can punish most alisa's mistakes properly and eventually get used to play against alisa
You really should not take pro player's rant too seriously, cause they are still biased and most rant don't really applicable in general due to different matchup situations or simply mindset, i guess...
Hope this helps, sorry if this is too general
ps. i'm a king main who don't really play alisa or azucena@@LeDanc
TLDR; don't even bother with matchup opinions. You can't really pick ur enemy. Learn the matchups so you can up ur game to another layer of tekken and don't forget to have fun while doing so :)
CBM's punishment was on point, that's what amazing to me in this match
Damn
Great match, enjoying everyone of them.
0:04 PhiDX never played the Reina into Yoshi matchup 🤣
3:21 😮😮 I gotta steal that!
3:18-3:25 I knew I was watching high stakes Tekken bro. This is as real as it gets those are two Gladiators before you
Another day, another check to make sure you know we will understand that you can take care of yourself over vids!
Worst Jin matchup is Lili and any other matchup doesn't come even close. It is objectively measurable and probably the worst matchup in the franchise.
She has the power to ignore Jin's homing mids evading from below *while simultaneously auto-low parrying* so there is no button on your movelist _in itself_ that can hit her.
Lili literally has an anti-movelist tech where the entirety of Jin's movelist will be negated in itself and the only way to circumvent it is through exposing yourself with extra frames and going for realigment techs followed by generous hitbox, low-reaching mids.
By doing so, you give her æons of exposure where every option from her beyond this exclusive anti-Jin tech will kill you through frame mathematics alone because you gave up tons of frames in order to create realignment.
Alisa doesn't even come close to the broken matchup that is Jin vs Lili.
Jin vs Alisa only issue is she can sidewalk d4 just like Lili and she can sidewalk db4 to the strong side just like Lili. (You also have to be cautious of her broken backdash to not whiff d4 and db4.)
Other than that, she is nowhere NEAR close to Lili.
She can't casually ignore and negate *Jin bf2* like Lili can.
You can still give the Jin vs Alisa matchup a semblance of sanity through bf2 and other mid checks. *Mid checks exist* against Alisa. She doesn't get the power to casually ignore your tracker mids and your homing mids like Lili.
Worst in the franchise lol
Steve enters the chat……..
Lmao you’re delusional on this, I’m sorry
@dopamemez2237 Read again...
There is *anti-movelist* involved here. Steve doesn't ever get to experience that, whether in favor or against him.
@ ok
Hey, I'm still pretty new to tekken but not new to fighting games or advanced option selects and stuff like that. Could you explain a little bit more about what you're talking about here? Does her crouch dash go under some mids, and the input also acts as a low parry? Is that like the general idea?
Anyone who plays Alissa pretty much all of them are just awful at the game. I see them all the time try to make excuses and say how they are actually good but no your not.
Chanel and Ao would like words.
Alisa matchup makes Jin look honest
So... b2, 1 and holding block... noted.
Also Lili can matterhorn iirc most of yoshi options when he goes to the helicopter stance
@ 5:31.. that's what she said 😂💀
This poor top 3 character struggling against a top 15 character 😢 guess Jin needs buff
No he doesn't
Thank you for the video, phidx.
as a jin main struggling into waifu characters, this was an inspirational match fr
I was about to make some kind of comment about bad matchup and Jin, but then I saw Alisa and completely understood.
Alisa is everybody's worst matchup imp since she is mechanically broken in t8
I'd argue it's Yoshi for most characters, but Alisas a close second
Unwinnable matchup for jin does not exist
For any character tbh
@Miaou98 Sure that is why i would use bad mu therm and tbh kaz vs Alisa would be far worse still winnable
@@makeomengreatagain yeah definitely
He can't win against homosexuality.
:D
Jin is actually a bad matchup for Alisa, he can *launch punish* 2 of her main lows (SBT 3 and DES d2) with his 14 frame WS2, and he can parry in-between some of her safe strings to punish her. He's one of the ONLY characters who can do this.
We need to stop listening to players whining on twitter. CBM in particular has no right to whine about other characters when his main is THIS busted.
If Alisa is an unwinnable matchup for Jin, I'm wondering what adjective would be appropriate for the matchup of Alisa vs a character without an i13 homing, safe long-range mid lockdown strings and the best punishment in the game.
Would prefer if you put Esports World Cup in the title or thumbnail so that viewers can choose whether to engage with EWC
Brother. You can’t click bait us like that. 😂
Brother, you can't be tricked like that 😂
Everyone thinks Jin is some god character. Is he over tuned? Yea but he's not some Jesus character u all think he is😂
Alisa's combo inconsistency show twice in the same round, I guess Jin really needs some buffs. 😂
This is DEFINITELY my worst match up as a Jin main [I'm a Tekken God if that helps since people care about that for your opinion to matter lmao]
Hey man, I just hit Garyu as Jin, any tips you have for me to get to Purple ranks? My current gameplan is a simple one with 214, delaying the 4 and doing F4 frame traps when I get the frame.
As TG Jin stop the bs. JIN has no bad matchups .
@@azteckjumbie9344 Thanks 👌🏾
As an Emperor Jin who wants to get TG, any tips for gold ranks?
@@voltaicthief646 Don’t go into stance as much unless you have layered your offense, USE MIDS because everyone knows the Jin matchup and will duck, use D4 and don’t spam D2 and know your punishes (especially 10, 12 and 13 frames)
I will never understand how DvJ B3 is launch punishable and Jin's dive kick is + on block...
Because Jin Divekick isn't as evasive as Devil Jin's B3
Multiple reasons.
1 dj does it raw where jin is in stance opening you up in the beginning
2 dj is more evasive kflies higher and further back
3dj is a heat engager
4 the devs didn't like how strong dj has been for damn near 20 years
because Jin’s is locked to a mid check-able stance, is slow as hell, and lacks the innate evasion of Wicked Jambu Spear. you’re literally comparing 2 completely different moves. this is like comparing Kaz’s EWGF, to Paul’s DF2. sure they’re both uppercuts… and that’s it lmao
@@renelopez3547ok then explain for DVJ db2 vs Jin’s d2? How is that even remotely balanced
@@dumithegreat3892all these lame Jin downplayers
the game was clearly tailored around jin, everyone else just came as an afterthought.
This is a case of Jin privilege
🐐🐐🐐(🍒🍓🥭)
What is bro talking. Jin does every single thing in this game way better than Alisa except movement.
That’s cap
Cool kids nowadays like to cry about Jin in T8
While being true, she still counters him. Comparing by kit, jin is fundamentally better, but alisa's kit makes her a bad matchup for him even when he's better. Imagine in pokemon a fire type and water type 1v1s the same normal type, and the fire one has higher stats than the water one. Fire would have a better chance beating the normal type, but against each other, water type would more likely win against the fire type.
Nah not really, just try defend when shes in chainsawmode i mean its gg from there
Yes, i really love playing Jin, especially after activating his chainsaws that are “way better than Alisa’s“
lets be honest , jin doesnt have bad matchups... some characters are harder than others, yes sure, happens to every character and even per player... but this is not a matchup problem, this is an alisa problem... everybody has a "bad matchup" if they find an alisa that knows what she is doing xb
Average jin main
+"overcame" is a strong word buddy
It's not that deep buddy
Broken jin
2 broken characters
"A bad match up it is never truly unplayable" yeah, but bet that it feels like. Specially if it is like Kazuya/Devil Jin Vs Nina 🫠 it feels miserable.
Come on, Jin is the MAIN character for Tekken lol
Nothing is unwinnable!
You sound dumb asf. But thanks for the engagement
The reason he conquered it is becauase jin players suck and ride jin like a cowboy, it leaves them careless, why care when everything always works. I made this comment before i realized bro was playing alisa, they can both fall of cliff at this point
Hate CBM very mashy gameplay and a Jin traitor that only came back because he is easier to play in 8
Whole point of video was cbm being defensive and getting punishes to win lol