Yes. There's a street like that in Winnipeg but it's always super dirty and filled with cracks. I just have to be an entitled cyclist and take a lane until a protected bike or at least some form of separation is put in place. You should be doing the same.
A few bike lanes here in Pierce County look about this bad, but I have to wonder why they marked them as a bike lane in the first place. It's not even a full shoulder for the car traffic. Edit to add: at 6:00 to 10:30, that looks like how the bike lanes are set up in Gig Harbor. Nice enough if folks stuck to the 25MPH limits.
Bellevue and the majority of the East side are terrible for cyclists. The reliance on automobiles is ridiculously overbearing, and the city governments are not helping themselves by cutting back on developing bike lane infrastructure. BTW, paint is not infrastructure - it's a cop-out. The only way to make things better is to vote bike-friendly city council people into office and get rid of the current car-centric thinking. Beautiful lake and park trail, but horrible route to get there.
As a long-time resident, I remember the paint being there when it was an emergency shoulder for cars. Several decades ago, they slapped "Bike Route" signs and symbols on many arterial shoulders and considered that good enough. Over time, car and cycling traffic has increased, average vehicle speeds have increased, and what might have been good enough in the 1980s is no longer remotely safe.
It's a cop-out, but also a start. Once a painted bike lane is enshrined, it can make it easier to improve it, because the argument is no longer about whether it should exist, but rather how to make it better. That seems to be what is now happening in Seattle, where they're adding concrete barriers to some of the lanes that were previously just paint or plastic poles, and those changes have rolled out surprisingly fast once they are approved, because that seems to be more of a funding problem than a "should these bike lanes even exist" problem. Anyway, just a thought.
Its barely even walkable! If you live outside of downtown or old Bellevue, you’re SOL. I live off the lake hills connector and tried to take a walk. The side walk cuts off and the speed limit is too high to for cyclists or pedestrians to safely walk. Ppl drift into the bike lane all the time.
Watching this makes me so scared. I won't even risk the bike gutters on Northup (the 520 missing link) during high-traffic times, and this looks so much worse omg
For me the worst are the painted 'bike lanes' on MLK Way between Union and just north of the I-90 Trail which SDOT sill has listed as painted bike lanes despite the faded bike symbols not being repainted in 10+ years. It is effectively a wide parking lane. The 'bike lane' is so narrow that you can be riding outside of the white line and still be in the door zone. When I first started riding, I saw on a map there was a bike lane and I didn't know about the door zone. This creates a dangerous situation for new riders.
I really appreciate your channel. I'm always looking for insight into rideable streets in the area. This is one I had been afraid to even investigate, and your video perfectly confirms this. I also like your comment that the painted lane is still appreciated. That way, in a pinch where it has to be ridden due to circumstances of needing to get somewhere, at least the drivers are being made aware of the possibility of bikes. I have found main roads with 35+ speed limits, narrow shoulders, and no bike lanes, are the roads where I'm most likely to be expected by the drivers to simply not be there, with an occasional closer than necessary pass to emphasize the point. The primary thing that I find scary here, and I think the thing that really tips the balance for me, is the lack of any escape further from the road, such as a sidewalk. I think the first section had a fence limiting escape to the right. The middle section which you reports are rideable, I agree I would feel ok there. That section has a sidewalk further to the right. The last section with the stone wall? That is absolutely the most frightening. I imagine getting smashed between and car bumper and whatever the hard barrier is. Even short sections like this, for example with a guardrail barrier, I really don't like. I was also really interested in the May Valley area you mentioned. Perhaps you've already covered this on your channel? For new viewers like me, maybe consider revisiting areas you consider top tier? Again I really appreciate your channel for both information content and vibe. Well done!
the bike lanes would be fine if they were separated by some physical barrier. the bike lane is too narrow, the avg speed of cars driving on Coal Creek is like 50+ (it's really hard to stay at 40, from my personal experience) especially in the stretch from 405 to Newcastle, the traffic is too heavy, road is windy, there are some really steep parts - it's just a pretty bad experience overall.
Ah, Coal Creek Parkway! I've ridden that maybe twice ever (both times southbound), and it's just awful. I avoid it at all times, as the road space is too narrow next to speeding drivers. This could really use a road diet with narrower traffic lanes to slow down drivers.
This channel is so good! I am coming to Seattle for a month in two weeks, and I will feel like a local with the knowledge you share- I will pick up a bike for sure
That is virtually, my whole city; Battle Creek, Michigan. We have a linear park, but it is not maintained. If you need to commute, you’re at the mercy of no painted lanes at all. Where there are lanes, it is all just painted.
Definitely not good but it’s not the worst by a long shot. Try riding Bothell-Everett hwy, especially the section from the 405 Mill Creek exit up to Mill Creek. There’s good reasons why you don’t see anyone using those bike lanes.
Agreed, I'm sure there's worse in terms of marked bike lanes. 😅 Though I think Coal Creek stands out maybe due to its approximation to popular Lake Washington routes where you don't see this level of traffic and speed.
There is ample room for protected bike lanes on that route. I wonder if Coal Creek is multiple municipalities or a country road. There are no alternate routes showing on Google maps. This ranking should be embarrassing for the authorities. If you can share the road authority and the ranking making the road authority aware might get a reaction to improve safety. Stroads suck!
even in your video you can count a number of cars transgress into the painted bike lane, particularly on sweeping left hand turns of the road. this is nuts. btw, as soon as you exit seattle on the north side (eg shoreline), its the same basically. as soon as limits for cars get to 35mph without full separation - no thank you. i'd go so far as to say this is MUCH more likely to harm you than a fentanyl/homeless person in seattle.
Great video. I used to ride these lanes a lot as the way I would access the climb up cougar. I've had more sketchy experiences on coal creek in the other direction with a lot of cars encroaching in the bike lane. Thanks to you though I don't really go this way any more as I switched to the Best Side Summits route. I'm now less likely to be killed by an SUV and more likely just to have a coronary on the way up Somerset :) Thanks.
Good to see you Brice! The Best Sides of Cycling documentary is premiering on this channel next week and you're actually in it :) Hope you check it out and good to hear it's been helpful.
Those are hairy roads indeed. I would not ride them by choice. Some of yesterday's Flying Wheels route was grotesque and dangerous and could use a great deal of improvement.
What bike lane? All I see is a gutter with a bike painted on it alongside a 5 land stroad with cars going 50mph+. That's absolutely horrible. I wouldn't ride there unless I had no other choice. There is absolutely more than enough space for a dedicated, protected bike lane there. It's almost like the city *wants* to get people killed.
Reminds me of the B 4 road (from Hamburg to Nürnberg) around here, also with two lanes per direction. However it's bike lane, guard rail, one direction, guard rail, other direction - so way safer. The insane noise of (in that case) 17.000 cars per day however stays and because of this, the county recommends a detour, which costs you around 5 minutes, but keeps you from becoming deaf…
What do you think about Lake Hills Connector? It seems to be the primary google maps recommended way to get up towards Cross Roads from downtown Bellevue but it's so dark at night with a tiny shoulder and steep hills. Makes that whole side feel very inaccessible by bike
I don’t drive Coal Creek often, I was surprised to notice the bike lane the other day and thought you’d have to brave to ride right next to cars that are going at 50+ miles per hour while trying to go up the hills. You’d have to be even braver when going down the hills…
All the curves combined with the gradient changes are definitely sketchy. It's not as bad as I was expecting though. But that's only because pretty much all bike "infrastructure" in the US is still so terrible. It's hard to compare bike gutters against each other and come out saying any of them are really better than any others. Honestly, the quality of the asphalt here and the concrete lip at the bottom of the curb being that narrow are pretty favorable for a gutter. It's just not actual infrastructure
As a Dane, I don't find this so avful. In Denmark it is mostly a separate lane for bikes , but eventually you are to share the road with cars, even without a special marking for it. Finn. Denmark
A side comment: May Valley Road is a delightful ride, and when combined with Holman Road, you can get from Issaquah up and over the hill toward Lake Washington with minimal hill climbing. May Valley Road does have some pretty minimal shoulders with deep ditches in sections, and large trucks use it pretty regularly, which has left me avoiding it when solo.
Lots of the roads near me are what you touch on that have no sidewalk, no shoulder, 45 mph road that people routinely go 55-60 on. Virginia suburbs of DC. They were clearly built out to require a car, no biking or walking allowed. It is an actuarial certainty you’d be killed if you rode them enough. As with your video, there seems to be plenty of room to build bike or pedestrian facilities, they just don’t because eff you.
The only positive thing I can say about this bike lane is that it's not a DZBL. Everything else about it tells me I shouldn't ride in it. Like you, I would probably do use it if absolutely necessary, but that wouldn't be a pleasant experience.
This section does look a little scary, perhaps better on a Sunday morning. If the bike lane was another foot wider, and the painted line made brighter and more reflective would help. Is this the worse bike lane, probably not.
I say this, even with bike lanes, when you're riding in a low foot traffic area, ride on the sidewalk, especially on a Brompton or small wheeled bike. I highly doubt a cop is going to give you a ticket, but I agree, that ride looks dangerous.
In Washington state, it’s legal to ride on the sidewalk and paths* as long as you yield to pedestrians, even if there are bike lanes. You are also expected to signal with bell and/or voice (“on your left”) when passing pedestrians. * - with some exceptions; the Ballard locks, for example, are run by the Army Corps of Engineers and require you to dismount and walk through the property.
Dude, you need to say what state, city this is in, all these references to local streets and areas only apply to a few viewers, on youtube, this is a global audience. I can probably click your other links to investigate where you are, if I'm really interested, but I see these types of bad bike lanes all over America, even in supposedly one of the better areas, Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN where I live, so nothing special here.
Thanks for the feedback, I'll include some easier ways to find the exact details (Bellevue, Washington). As you point out though, there's many places in the states similar or probably worse: it's about the journey together that matters. This channel is proudly local and one of the most fulfilling parts of me doing RUclips is building the community here in Seattle, Washington. I've had good things about St Paul, hope to come out and ride there one day!
Спорт
What do you think of the bike lanes? Do they deserve this title? Where else can be greatly improved?
Yes. There's a street like that in Winnipeg but it's always super dirty and filled with cracks. I just have to be an entitled cyclist and take a lane until a protected bike or at least some form of separation is put in place. You should be doing the same.
A few bike lanes here in Pierce County look about this bad, but I have to wonder why they marked them as a bike lane in the first place. It's not even a full shoulder for the car traffic.
Edit to add: at 6:00 to 10:30, that looks like how the bike lanes are set up in Gig Harbor. Nice enough if folks stuck to the 25MPH limits.
Bellevue and the majority of the East side are terrible for cyclists. The reliance on automobiles is ridiculously overbearing, and the city governments are not helping themselves by cutting back on developing bike lane infrastructure. BTW, paint is not infrastructure - it's a cop-out. The only way to make things better is to vote bike-friendly city council people into office and get rid of the current car-centric thinking. Beautiful lake and park trail, but horrible route to get there.
As a long-time resident, I remember the paint being there when it was an emergency shoulder for cars. Several decades ago, they slapped "Bike Route" signs and symbols on many arterial shoulders and considered that good enough. Over time, car and cycling traffic has increased, average vehicle speeds have increased, and what might have been good enough in the 1980s is no longer remotely safe.
It's a cop-out, but also a start. Once a painted bike lane is enshrined, it can make it easier to improve it, because the argument is no longer about whether it should exist, but rather how to make it better. That seems to be what is now happening in Seattle, where they're adding concrete barriers to some of the lanes that were previously just paint or plastic poles, and those changes have rolled out surprisingly fast once they are approved, because that seems to be more of a funding problem than a "should these bike lanes even exist" problem. Anyway, just a thought.
Its barely even walkable! If you live outside of downtown or old Bellevue, you’re SOL. I live off the lake hills connector and tried to take a walk. The side walk cuts off and the speed limit is too high to for cyclists or pedestrians to safely walk. Ppl drift into the bike lane all the time.
Watching this makes me so scared. I won't even risk the bike gutters on Northup (the 520 missing link) during high-traffic times, and this looks so much worse omg
Yeah this definitely is worse than Northup. Not for everybody but unfortunately that navigation software probably labels them both the same
For me the worst are the painted 'bike lanes' on MLK Way between Union and just north of the I-90 Trail which SDOT sill has listed as painted bike lanes despite the faded bike symbols not being repainted in 10+ years. It is effectively a wide parking lane. The 'bike lane' is so narrow that you can be riding outside of the white line and still be in the door zone. When I first started riding, I saw on a map there was a bike lane and I didn't know about the door zone. This creates a dangerous situation for new riders.
I really appreciate your channel. I'm always looking for insight into rideable streets in the area. This is one I had been afraid to even investigate, and your video perfectly confirms this. I also like your comment that the painted lane is still appreciated. That way, in a pinch where it has to be ridden due to circumstances of needing to get somewhere, at least the drivers are being made aware of the possibility of bikes. I have found main roads with 35+ speed limits, narrow shoulders, and no bike lanes, are the roads where I'm most likely to be expected by the drivers to simply not be there, with an occasional closer than necessary pass to emphasize the point. The primary thing that I find scary here, and I think the thing that really tips the balance for me, is the lack of any escape further from the road, such as a sidewalk. I think the first section had a fence limiting escape to the right. The middle section which you reports are rideable, I agree I would feel ok there. That section has a sidewalk further to the right. The last section with the stone wall? That is absolutely the most frightening. I imagine getting smashed between and car bumper and whatever the hard barrier is. Even short sections like this, for example with a guardrail barrier, I really don't like. I was also really interested in the May Valley area you mentioned. Perhaps you've already covered this on your channel? For new viewers like me, maybe consider revisiting areas you consider top tier? Again I really appreciate your channel for both information content and vibe. Well done!
Yes, all great ideas for future! I've always wanted to make more introductory "best routes in Seattle"
the bike lanes would be fine if they were separated by some physical barrier. the bike lane is too narrow, the avg speed of cars driving on Coal Creek is like 50+ (it's really hard to stay at 40, from my personal experience) especially in the stretch from 405 to Newcastle, the traffic is too heavy, road is windy, there are some really steep parts - it's just a pretty bad experience overall.
Same issue on the lake hills connector
Ah, Coal Creek Parkway! I've ridden that maybe twice ever (both times southbound), and it's just awful. I avoid it at all times, as the road space is too narrow next to speeding drivers. This could really use a road diet with narrower traffic lanes to slow down drivers.
This channel is so good! I am coming to Seattle for a month in two weeks, and I will feel like a local with the knowledge you share- I will pick up a bike for sure
Glad to hear it! Hope you enjoy your trip and let us know how it goes :)
That is virtually, my whole city; Battle Creek, Michigan. We have a linear park, but it is not maintained. If you need to commute, you’re at the mercy of no painted lanes at all. Where there are lanes, it is all just painted.
Definitely not good but it’s not the worst by a long shot. Try riding Bothell-Everett hwy, especially the section from the 405 Mill Creek exit up to Mill Creek. There’s good reasons why you don’t see anyone using those bike lanes.
Agreed, I'm sure there's worse in terms of marked bike lanes. 😅 Though I think Coal Creek stands out maybe due to its approximation to popular Lake Washington routes where you don't see this level of traffic and speed.
Yeah, I rode those once going southbound. Probably never again.
There is ample room for protected bike lanes on that route. I wonder if Coal Creek is multiple municipalities or a country road. There are no alternate routes showing on Google maps. This ranking should be embarrassing for the authorities. If you can share the road authority and the ranking making the road authority aware might get a reaction to improve safety. Stroads suck!
even in your video you can count a number of cars transgress into the painted bike lane, particularly on sweeping left hand turns of the road. this is nuts. btw, as soon as you exit seattle on the north side (eg shoreline), its the same basically. as soon as limits for cars get to 35mph without full separation - no thank you. i'd go so far as to say this is MUCH more likely to harm you than a fentanyl/homeless person in seattle.
Great video. I used to ride these lanes a lot as the way I would access the climb up cougar. I've had more sketchy experiences on coal creek in the other direction with a lot of cars encroaching in the bike lane. Thanks to you though I don't really go this way any more as I switched to the Best Side Summits route. I'm now less likely to be killed by an SUV and more likely just to have a coronary on the way up Somerset :) Thanks.
Good to see you Brice! The Best Sides of Cycling documentary is premiering on this channel next week and you're actually in it :) Hope you check it out and good to hear it's been helpful.
@@BestSideCycling Im looking forward to seeing it. My trip to europe got in the way of the premiere but I’m finally home.
Those are hairy roads indeed. I would not ride them by choice. Some of yesterday's Flying Wheels route was grotesque and dangerous and could use a great deal of improvement.
Spoilers! Yeah, I was definitely going to comment on the flying wheels roads in my vlog coming up. Great meeting you then
What bike lane? All I see is a gutter with a bike painted on it alongside a 5 land stroad with cars going 50mph+.
That's absolutely horrible. I wouldn't ride there unless I had no other choice.
There is absolutely more than enough space for a dedicated, protected bike lane there.
It's almost like the city *wants* to get people killed.
Reminds me of the B 4 road (from Hamburg to Nürnberg) around here, also with two lanes per direction. However it's bike lane, guard rail, one direction, guard rail, other direction - so way safer. The insane noise of (in that case) 17.000 cars per day however stays and because of this, the county recommends a detour, which costs you around 5 minutes, but keeps you from becoming deaf…
I'm actually headed to Frankfurt right now! Let me know if you have any suggestions for riding around there.
NE 8th St? I just won’t ride that one, it’s a bit scary even in my car.
Wait does any section of that even have a bike lane?! But agreed as a road it's super high traffic and super steep.
@@BestSideCycling yeah between 140th and 124th does at least, probably more.
I don’t know why people drive those obnoxiously loud cars, so depressing hearing that instead of what should be the sounds of nature.
What do you think about Lake Hills Connector? It seems to be the primary google maps recommended way to get up towards Cross Roads from downtown Bellevue but it's so dark at night with a tiny shoulder and steep hills. Makes that whole side feel very inaccessible by bike
I've never gone westbound on lake hills connector due to the giant steel hill without a shoulder. Eastbound is okay.
I don’t drive Coal Creek often, I was surprised to notice the bike lane the other day and thought you’d have to brave to ride right next to cars that are going at 50+ miles per hour while trying to go up the hills. You’d have to be even braver when going down the hills…
All the curves combined with the gradient changes are definitely sketchy. It's not as bad as I was expecting though. But that's only because pretty much all bike "infrastructure" in the US is still so terrible. It's hard to compare bike gutters against each other and come out saying any of them are really better than any others. Honestly, the quality of the asphalt here and the concrete lip at the bottom of the curb being that narrow are pretty favorable for a gutter. It's just not actual infrastructure
As a Dane, I don't find this so avful. In Denmark it is mostly a separate lane for bikes , but eventually you are to share the road with cars, even without a special marking for it. Finn. Denmark
A side comment: May Valley Road is a delightful ride, and when combined with Holman Road, you can get from Issaquah up and over the hill toward Lake Washington with minimal hill climbing. May Valley Road does have some pretty minimal shoulders with deep ditches in sections, and large trucks use it pretty regularly, which has left me avoiding it when solo.
Great comments haha here's my old video on May Valley Rd: ruclips.net/video/4XjNuEnKKCA/видео.html
Lots of the roads near me are what you touch on that have no sidewalk, no shoulder, 45 mph road that people routinely go 55-60 on. Virginia suburbs of DC. They were clearly built out to require a car, no biking or walking allowed. It is an actuarial certainty you’d be killed if you rode them enough. As with your video, there seems to be plenty of room to build bike or pedestrian facilities, they just don’t because eff you.
You could not pay me to ride Coal Creek (lived there for 3 yr).
@BestSideCycling Hanoch, can't you extend the bike lanes as much as you want if you have white paint?
The only positive thing I can say about this bike lane is that it's not a DZBL. Everything else about it tells me I shouldn't ride in it. Like you, I would probably do use it if absolutely necessary, but that wouldn't be a pleasant experience.
I would never ride any of that supposed 'bike lane'. I'd take the sidewalk
This section does look a little scary, perhaps better on a Sunday morning. If the bike lane was another foot wider, and the painted line made brighter and more reflective would help. Is this the worse bike lane, probably not.
I say this, even with bike lanes, when you're riding in a low foot traffic area, ride on the sidewalk, especially on a Brompton or small wheeled bike. I highly doubt a cop is going to give you a ticket, but I agree, that ride looks dangerous.
In Washington state, it’s legal to ride on the sidewalk and paths* as long as you yield to pedestrians, even if there are bike lanes. You are also expected to signal with bell and/or voice (“on your left”) when passing pedestrians. * - with some exceptions; the Ballard locks, for example, are run by the Army Corps of Engineers and require you to dismount and walk through the property.
bike lanes ? whats that
sorry but florida has you beat easily
Dude, you need to say what state, city this is in, all these references to local streets and areas only apply to a few viewers, on youtube, this is a global audience. I can probably click your other links to investigate where you are, if I'm really interested, but I see these types of bad bike lanes all over America, even in supposedly one of the better areas, Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN where I live, so nothing special here.
Thanks for the feedback, I'll include some easier ways to find the exact details (Bellevue, Washington). As you point out though, there's many places in the states similar or probably worse: it's about the journey together that matters. This channel is proudly local and one of the most fulfilling parts of me doing RUclips is building the community here in Seattle, Washington. I've had good things about St Paul, hope to come out and ride there one day!