Why We Should Eliminate the (Z) Train
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- Опубликовано: 23 июн 2022
- The (Z) line is the only line in the NYC Subway System that only runs during rush hours. Despite being absent for most of the day, it still causes many issues along the BMT Jamaica Line. In this video, I give my reasoning as to why the (Z) Train should be eliminated, and why Skip-Stop service doesn't work in a rapid transit system.
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The Z would've been useful if Jamaica had 4 tracks and could have a full-time express
@Bread And Circuses Just add a fourth track onto the existing tracks.
The only benefit to the Z train is that it helped spawn Jay-Z's stage name (kinda)
🤣
U know how much times the Z saved me from getting killed because of me getting home late?
😂😂
Jay z went to high school at jay street metro tech loool
it didn't, but that's a beautiful coincidence
Skip stop is incredibly stupid, it confuses the customers and creates longer waiting times at some station. You may want to apply for a job with scheduling.
I think it's not stupid it's kind of stupid and it's not stupid and kind of stupid at the same time because even though the the Z train runs the exact same route as the j so I would say it's kind of not
Oh now I'm thinking of it the j train is doing all the work instead of the z train
In my opinion one way we can improve service on the Z line is that
1. We add a third track for on the Jamaica line for the Z train
2. Improve the z train service by it running weekdays and afternoons since rush hrs is most busiest time, it would make more sense for it to run that way .
just one more track
Express is required on nassau
They did all that stuff from the jump
@@nicholasstantonshomeaccoun2291 are you talking about Manhattan section or the whole line?
@@jeremiahtaylor1817 Queens and Brooklyn
The [Z] shouldn't be eliminated & should just be an express route. It should run to Bayside-Northern Boulevard. The new stations should be: Jamaica Avenue-168th Street, 188th Street, 196th Street, 204th Street, Hollis Court Boulevard-212th Street, 218th Street, 77th Avenue, 69th Avenue, Long Island Expressway, 51st Avenue, & Bayside-Northern Boulevard. The [J] train should run to West Hempstead-Sycamore Street via the rebuilt & extended BMT Jamaica Elevated Line. The new stations should be: 131st Street, Queens Boulevard, Sutphin Boulevard, 160th Street, 168th Street, 177th Street, 188th Street-Hollis Avenue, Carpenter Avenue, Francis Lewis Boulevard, 212th Street, 218th Street, 223rd Street, Belmont Park Road, Gotham Avenue, Elmont Road, Emporia Avenue, Landau Avenue, Doris Avenue, New Hyde Park Road, Commonwealth Street, Nassau Boulevard, & West Hempstead-Sycamore Street.
Your crazy if you think extending the J and Z to Long Island world work 😭😭
I can agree. Make the Z line express. This would be a good idea since there isn’t really much express service AND it would make commuting longer distances much faster.
When I went to the public hearing for this skip-stop proposal decades ago, I thought it was the most ridiculous idea to have two lines running on the same track skipping every other stop then certain stops they stopped at to make connections. There's a middle track from Marcy avenue to East New York, they could have ran a Express during rush and of course the (J) local running all times.
I agree with this mostly with flyover with the M line. But if the express service is made then maybe they should make the Z line go on those express lines.
I personally think a Myrtle Avenue underground line used by the M should be brought back because it could alleviate some congestion off the G
Yes it should.
Yeah I agree, I’m all for eliminating the Z as it currently exists but if those other improvements get built it makes sense to have it
Yeah I think the Z should be modified in its direction should they go forward with these proposed construction projects.
arex moment
Excellent Video Man! The proposals you put to improve the J train and the reasons to eliminate the Z has been wonderful. Keep up the great work. 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩😉😉😉😉
I'm glad you enjoyed the video and agreed with my proposals. All credit doesn't go to me though, as I had a lot of help in coming up with ideas for this video. Also, thanks for the Super Thanks!
Your Welcome! I’m a big fan of you
Hey uh Z trains have been suspended and have been replaced by additional J trains
Same
I’ve noticed quite a number of positions on the route, but my position is to not only get rid of the Z designation entirely, but to alter the J/Z routing (and much of the subway system) as we know it. A longer term plan, what this will entail is a few new capital projects implemented in phases. The first phase is deinterlining the B Division to prepare for the new projects. As a start, the R and W would be folded into a single R route, operating between Astoria-Ditmars Blvd and Coney Island-Stilwell Avenue, with the D going to Bay Ridge-95th Street instead via two new switches installed south of 36th Street to make the local stops. The R would operate at 20 trains per hour. Both the N and Q would operate on the Second Avenue Subway. Service on 8th Avenue and Queens Blvd would have to change as well due to the removal of the R from Queens Blvd. as such, the M would be rerouted from 53rd Street to 63rd Street and the C and D would now swap so that the C would be 8th Avenue express and operate from Norwood-205th Street to Euclid Avenue via Concourse, 8th Avenue Express, and Fulton Street Local. The D would then operate to 168th Street via 8th Avenue Local and 6th Avenue Express. With this, a new K route would operate between 71st Avenue and World Trade Center via Queens Blvd Local and 8th Avenue Local-53rd Street, filling in track capacity in the interim. Alongside this, some signal upgrades on the Williamsburg Bridge would allow for J/Z and M trains (and much of the system) to operate at 15 trains per hour, 5 of which would be (formerly the Z) trains making express stops from Broadway Junction and Marcy Avenue, while the J designation constitutes the rest of the trains that will make all the stops. Two stops, Hewes Street and Lorimer Street, will also be consolidated into a single station at Union Avenue to improve transfers. Also the platforms would be lengthened. This eliminates the Z and improves both the Jamaica Line and much of the system but we’re not done yet.
Finally we get into the new construction. First would be a new East River tunnel linking the BMT Broadway Line at Whitehall Street with the local tracks of the IND Fulton Street Line (via Court Street), along with a new subway tunnel under Jamaica Avenue linking the IND Fulton Street Line at Broadway Junction with the BMT Jamaica Line at Cypress Hills, replacing the elevated structure over Fulton Street. With this, the R would replace the C train on the Fulton Street Line, with 10 of those trains going to Jamaica Center to replace the J and 10 of those trains would be converted back into W trains to replace the C to Euclid Avenue. The C would then become an express on the Fulton Street to Lefferts Blvd while the A would go only to/from Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park. The J would operate between Broadway Junction and Coney Island to replace the R. This move would speed service to Lower Manhattan from the Jamaica Avenue stations and improve service in Southwest Queens.
After this would be a new track connection under Broome Street linking the 8th Avenue Line with the Nassau Street Line. With this, all E and K trains would then take over J and M train service over the Williamsburg Bridge, with the E train taking over J train service to Broadway Junction and the K taking over the M train to Metropolitan Avenue. The remainder of the M route in Manhattan and Queens Blvd would be converted back into the V train to improve service on the Culver Line, specially implementing full local and express service on that line north of Church Avenue.
Now that’s a grand plan to improve service and eliminate the Z.
Z have been problematic for years.
Yes, more money from productive states to save failed nyc. 🤡
@@jerrypeukert5732 What are you talking about? How does your misinformation relate to my plan?
@Spy Ninja Ayden That is true.
im not reading all of that
they should just use full express service between marcy and broadway junction. and yes, extended it as you suggested all the way to 121st.
I agree with that, it will also provide faster connections to the AirTrain and LIRR Trains going to points east at Jamaica
I forgot the (Z) even existed 💀
The flyover idea sounds like what was done with the Brown Line in Chicago.
Anyhow, here's an out-of-the-box counterintuitive solution about the J/Z situation: Have the Z run against the peak direction, i.e., trains skip-stop TO Jamaica AM, FROM Jamaica PM. It gets the trains to the more-in-demand terminals marginally quicker so they can be turned around quicker so that you maybe could squeeze in one more run in that hour. Anyone commuting against peak direction might be at a disadvantage, maybe, but how many are there relative to how many are going in the peak direction? When the "Z" gets to the more-in-demand terminal, it will just become a J train anyway.
Now make it express
Wait no that is too expensive
Another possible stop consolidation: remove Hewes and/or Lorimer stations, and replace them with a single station at Broadway/Union for better transfers with the G train. What do you think about this one?
Do you think that the MTA has billions of dollars to replace 2 elevated stations with one? I don’t think so. They are operating in the red as of now
@@jorgegaston5391 This could be a longer term plan and something that the community can welcome.
Well it well be good to build new el stations but it will costs more expensive to build not in future it sometimes in 22 century possibly.
It if j & m train possibly new tunnel or. Not .
@@jorgegaston5391 We have billions of dollars to waste on a gas tax holiday
Long story short, it's a good idea on paper but in reality considering the ridership at both stations, it might see pushback. You're better off making a Out-Of-System Transfer
I love your videos!! Makes me excited every time!!
Just imagine if that express track that was planned to go over the Alabama avenue station was actually completed, or if the TA actually used the $25 Million back in 1959 for changing the platforms along the East of Broadway Junction
or if the South 4th Street line was actually completed
Unfortunately, they realized the third track at Alabama Avenue would shake that line apart. If they wanted to add that they probably would've had to tear the whole station down and build a whole replacement.
Great video! Myrtle junction definitely needs a dedicated flyover for (M) trains going from Manhattan to Myrtle. Chicago recently resolved a similar issue with its Brown, Red, and Purple Lines with a new flyover at Belmont.
Aside from killing the Z line, I certainly like your idea of the flyover at Myrtle Avenue and Broadway. I may have mentioned this on your channel before (or maybe it was somewhere else), but one evening I got so pissed at having to pass up overcrowded J and Z trains at Broadway Junction, I decided instead to take the L to Atlantic Avenue, and catch an LIRR train to Jamaica instead.
I love that idea of building a 3rd separate express track between Bway Junction and Cypress Hills. That would be the only way since from Alabama to Crescent are all island platforms. But it looks like it going to cross the Queens borderline according to this map. I was thinking it could run on Jamaica Avenue into the Cypress hills station
In Santiago CL we uses skip stop at rush hour, 6 m frequency train per route. Global frequency is 3 minutes in lines with SACEM and other piloting system, it means 6 minutes between trains of same routes.
It has increased the global speed for user, measured since user enters to station and whem leaving.
This made with same 2 track line and no bypass loops.
US problem is basicaly signaling, comunication and frequency and no relatuon with skip stop routes
@@sebavergarafredes7528 yeah, people blame skip stop service all the time due to the “inconvenience” but it really results in faster journeys for most people. Funny thing is that at the start of the video they say skip stop is proven to NOT work worldwide while in Santiago does work quite well. I ride Line 4’s red service in rush hour in Santiago and it’s good (much faster than w/out skip stop. I’ve ridden the J line also while in NY since I have family living near Cleveland Street and the service works but not it’s not good enough IMHO.
Maybe a repeat of the 1/9 situation, just have the J and use Z for some other service, maybe the IBX when it comes
I think that the center track on the Jamaica line should be built and have a J express to replace the Z. Only problem, there would still be 6 trains per hour, but at least it would be more reliable
Yeah, the issue is the frequency. I'm not a big fan of delivering only 6 trains per hour to local stations.
Wait Wait Wait
Diamond J?
@@Goofy1trainofficial You got a problem with it?
I’m just thinking, what if the M ran all the way up Jamacia during rush hours? It would honestly be pretty stupid, but we have to have some local service during rush hours on the line. Although, that would ruin the line. We just need a local service, fully. M trains were never that way, even when it was nassau street local.
No
Just seeing the title of this video, I’m all for it. This is, unless if the (Z) will allow for local/express service
taking this train to the school i just graduated from was pretty annoying because of the whole 1 train every 10 minutes situation. This is pretty neat that people are trying to improve it
If your idea makes trains go faster to shorten times enough, we might not need express service
I think CBTC on the J and M would make service more frequent allowing express service similar to the 7
I agree but unfortunately I don’t think it’ll solve the problems at Myrtle Avenue
@@zcp9668 it kinda can tho
Every 8 to 10 minutes trains between skip stops.
The same service provided by the old QJ/KK.
You know the Transit Authority will not build a new station or track along the Eastern lines.
Look. We are all fans,but realistically, even attempt to build a third track has been met with nimbly resistance.
The creation of the Z was the trade off.
A new Marcy Ave station is definitely out of the question.
I know this is fantasy site,but when it comes to building new infrastructure, the MTA WONT SPEND CAPITAL expenses...nor do they want to deal with the Queens NIMBYS the J passes through.
How you can deal with the J/Z issues is to modify service patterns.
The terminal at Jamaica center is the bottle neck. It hampers turn around because of the interlocking being so far away.
Honestly, if the Jamaica line rebuild was on their radar..it would be out there going through feasible studies.
Terminal improvement, increased frequency, new service patterns are the only options the TA has.
Now, my thing is, in order to straighten out the J line,the ideal plan is to build a branch directly along Jamaica Ave from ENY TO CYPRESS HILLS,while keeping the elevated line over Fulton st,effectively creating a two branch system.
The Fulton route would run to Crescent st...while the Jamaica branch would travel to its present terminal.
This eliminates the bottle neck,and slow timers over Crescent.
Once again, the MTA isn't willing to spend any more capital than it has too,which shows when you look at how the line is operated.
Not knocking your " improvements,but if you are going to spend billions, better make it count.
I'd suggest implementing CBTC on the trunk, too. That may increase capacity a little bit too since the automation would have better speed regulation in speed limited zones like the Crescent St S curve.
The [X] would run under the IRT 9th Avenue Trunk line & be part of the newly reimagined BMT Jamaica Line [J] [M] [X] [Z] {JZ} {MJ}. The (X) would run to Inwood-207th Street & the would run to Pelham Bay Park.
@@terellmitchell918 Don't attack his dream.
Hey there Mystic Transit my friend. You had a wonderful week so far I hope.
Yes I did! Hopefully it was the same for you.
@@MysticTransit Glad to hear that. Yes it was for me.
Very interesting video and would love to see a video about platform extensions.
Hello there. Yeah I kind of agree with your point.
I like the extra 3rd track between Cypress Hills and Broadway Junction (kinda utilizing the old Jamaica Ave El). One of the best consolidations I would like to see is merging the Hewes St station and the Lorimer St Station. The G train does have an outside transfer to both stations at Broadway station, but it is redundant, in my opinion. The best option would be to close down both those stations and make a Union Ave station to transfer with the G at Broadway. I do also like the idea of making Marcy Ave a fully express station, using the abandoned Myrtle Ave station for thorough M service (they should honestly make a Myrtle Ave shuttle which runs between Metropolitan Ave and Downtown Brooklyn) or I would like to see some sort of Rapid Transit along the entire Myrtle Ave from Richmond Hill to Downtown Brooklyn - adds a benefit without the need of going into Manhattan.
Maybe Myrtle Avenue line can run all the way along the BMT Jamaica Line to Broad Street station and be s branch to the BMT Jamaica Line instead of going onto the 6th Avenue Line. This could De Interline Both the systems. Also by not running the E onto the BMT Jamaica Line can further help in de interlining the BMT Jamaica Line. Afterwards, it will be easier to install CBTC on the BMT Jamaica Line and we can convert it like the Canarsie Line or the 7 Train to run solo thus helping frequencies on all lines
@@aaravyadav3748 Another idea is they could do is maybe swap the M with Z service. So, M service goes to Broadway Junction after Myrtle and the Z goes from Chambers to Metropolitan (acting as a small scale shuttle). J service runs express during peak times after Broadway Junction (b/c J service would be local for most of its service north of that station to Jamaica), while Z and M run local. There are not many people who take the M full length as it is "almost" a full-loop service.
And while the J would tank most of its line, maybe the right idea would be to end J service at Chambers for quick turn-arounds and the Z can run to Broad St or maybe even along Montague Tunnels. And what can be done is to use the other two tracks along Nassau St. So the J uses the middle two tracks while the Z uses the outer two tracks. Then along 4th Ave (as a Local) to Bay Pkwy (...resulting in a boost in D service and possible peak-express D service along West End...). So basically the Z runs as the old-fashion brown M.
During Late-Nights, the Z can use the upper level of Myrtle Ave for shuttle service to Metropolitan. And M service could run 24/7 (and M service could be extended to 179 St to help the F), but with night service cut back Myrtle Ave (using center track as a relay). The extra Z trains can be reused as J/M trains for additive service during late-nights. Two Z trains running 10-15 min intervals makes sense (late nights only).
I know along the J and Z lines there still old tracks that can be used, back then they used to have 4 tracks instead of two or three like today. They could just implement this back instead of 2 or 3 tracks. This way the Z train can run all the time without any issues.
You're right Mystic Transit, I sometimes take that line when I am in NYC. However, for years I have taken it very frequently and you know what? For years I have said that the "Z" service is useless. The "J" trains take much longer at a certain time because of this. I also like the rebuilding and expansion options you mentioned too. 🙂🙂🙂
I never realized the J/Z literally has a rush hour! Those frequencies are also so low. On the 1/9 I remember trains running every 2 to 4 min so it didn't take long for your train to arrive. I think they should have kept skip stop service on the 1/9 and gotten rid of it on the J/Z.
I use to take 1/9 skip stop service. I honestly don’t miss it. Service improved when they got rid of it in terms of consistency.
@@ariesmichaelsayan4013 Back then I was in middle school going on high school. Skip stop service meant I didn't deal with the at GW high school at 191, all the kids getting of the Bx12 at 207 and the people at 145. I miss those peaceful rides and back then the frequency was pretty high between both trains. It probably eroded over time but by then I was taking the M98 Limited to the M116 to get to HS.
@@monica012077 oh I understand!! You had a more peaceful ride. That makes sense!!
Great analysis. Love the vanshnookenraggen feature
Yes please. Do a video on platform extensions. How would they go about it, etc.
The last time I rode an R32 was on The (Z) Line. (If I'm not mistaken).
So about 2 years ago? lol
@@MysticTransit Yeah lol.
A few years ago i rode a r32 z train and an r42 z train
Different days tho
I quite literally only ever seen this train once in my 20 years living in NYC
The first time I rode the Z train was in 2018 when I was on my way to the High School I ended up attending to check out to see if it was good for me since I had just graduated Middle School. The ride was from Fulton Street to Sutphin Boulevard and was made up of R42s, making it the first and only time I ever rode them, and the Z train I was riding was actually running local and not express or skip-stop. The ride back was on the J train to Broadway Junction which was running the then-new R179s which made it the first time I ever rode them.
I do like the idea of eliminating the Z train. It only runs in peak hours during the day cause it only has one express track. Marcy Ave should have 2 island platforms before converting into 2 tracks to the Williamsburg Bridge. Another thing is Myrtle Ave-Broadway should be an ADA station and eliminate the existing tracks over the Myrtle Av-Broadway station. As the express tracks convert into 2 towards Broadway Junction, the express tracks should be extended to 121 St but the 4 remaining island platforms for Alabama Ave, Van Siclen Ave,Cleveland St,Norwood Ave and Crescent St should be eliminated and put 2 new side platforms for Z skip-stop trains. One more thing. Woodhaven Blvd should have an island platform for direct service to/from Jamaica Center or Broad St
To be honest I only liked the Z when it had 32s, now you guys may say “Oh He’s just a Smee foamer” The truth is seeing 32s Running express or running at all is so satisfying to me, I know this video has nothing to do with car models but, I’m just saying. I Like The Z
I never was a fan of the skip-stop service, anyway... but the Jamaica-Broadway line definitely needs improvement... eliminating the Z line only solves one problem.
How much times do current skip stop expresses save over off-peak local J Trains?
Mystic what if the J was skip stop and rush hour only and the Z was All Day Would you still hate the Z
Building an express station at Woodhaven Blvd would require elevating the center track with it own platforms. So it would require more construction than necessary. But it has already been done with the second/third avenues lines in Manhattan. It's just that would nimby approve of this layout.
There is another issue that people forgot to mentioned for this station. There has been a proposal to reactivate the Rockaway line from Queens Blvd. Unfortunately, the current Woodhaven station sits too far back for a meaningful connect. So a new built center track would have to include this in it plans. Extend it far enough that makes transfer easier on riders using these two services.
The problem with building an island platform on Marcy Av is that the station is already too close together to a lot of infrastructure. A better plan might be to close Marcy Av. And rebuild the station over the bus hub. In between Havemeyer & s 5 St With some rearranging and maybe even expanding the bus hub in Williamsburg it will not only improve bus service but also give everyone easier connections to the buses
What’s difference between skip stop and express? I take 7 so I’m confused, does skip stop mean there’s no special platform?
Agreed. As a side note, the Myrtle Ave line should be extended to connect with the Franklin Ave Shuttle
Should it be an extension of the shuttle, or a transfer?
@@stevenroshni1228 Not an extension for the shuttle. A lot of work would have to be mad to the 3 solo served stations alone
Why not a full length express run for the Z in the morning from Eastern Parkway til Marcy Avenue like it was done by the old BMT from 1918 to 1940 when it was bought by the New York City Board of Transportation? And the same in the opposite direction of the afternoon rush hour?
As much I love the Z Train and experienced going on it, it was fun. It is time to let it go so the J can improve and change positions for better communicative services. The BMT Nassau is ancient as hell, but its time to step up game. It can do more work for the MTA has to look into as far as I'm concerned. Not now and not later.
Yeah good idea, I never thought to implement express service between broadway junction and Jamaica, I’m excited about transit news this Sunday(probably will be about Bronx buses) and NYC regional rail(wonder what other improvements you’ll mention)=) yeah you did convert me to kill the Z train squad
I agree with the Z elimination and the M flyover for Metropolitan bound trains. I just cant see a super Express track over Jamaica Avenue in my lifetime 🤷♀️ The flyover for it does exist though at Alabama Avenue.
Doesn’t need extended platforms I believe they run just fine…more trains running would be cool but to make the train 10 cars and extend the station isn’t necessary
Can you do a video on how can the Z line be improved on the Jamaica Avenue line instead of removing it?
I agree with the skip stop service when I was living in NYC it took the J line during rush hour it can take my trip an additional 15-20 minutes.
Is there enough room to put island platforms on Fulton street at wood haven and 121st street. Would be dope if the Z could be a super express train that could help people get to airport fast or southeast Queens residents who have a long commute get home fast
I was thinking we bring back the upper level platform at Myrtle Avenue for the M to stop there. I think I will cause less delays for the J & Z there.
I agree!!! I take the J and when it turns skip-stop service, I have to rush out of the house and anyone who’s coming with me because they don’t understand the wait time is really long. Now especially since every time I miss the first Skip-stop, J service becomes out of wack and sometimes we have to wait longer than 10 mins!!!
What happens if we put CBTC on the line to allow for more service so that express be reasonably done?
CBTC was never designed to work on complex, interlined networks. That’s part of why it has failed on the Queens Blvd Line.
@@TMC_BC Failed? Service is better!
Thank you for this lol. I almost forgot there was a Z train until I moved to Cypress Hills at Van Siclen. The Z train is like the annoying little brother of the J. I agree the skip stop service is a big joke. I live at a skip stop and I feel for the most part it does nothing. It feels local from Van Siclen to Chauncey street. You miss one train and it takes 10 minutes for the other and then you have risk of delays because of the M at Myrtle Ave Bway interlining. My question is why is the express track never used between Myryle and Broadway Junction? A third track between Broadway Junction and 121 street would be ideal. The upper abandoned track at Myrtle would be ideal for the M. Lots of construction and May cost some money, but it would be worth it. Hopefully the MTA Is willing to serve minority residents of this area.
The Express track is never used due to the grade crossing at Myrtle Junction. That is why I proposed fixing it in this video.
@@MysticTransit I see. And is there not anyway after Myrtle Avenue for the train to merge on to the express track? Like at maybe Kosciuzko Street?
@@MysticTransit Building a fly over at Myrtle Avenue is a great idea especially if there’s already a structure running to and from the station that was built many years ago. I still Believe in the meantime, the express track could be used between Broadway Junction and Myrtle in the meantime, it just wouldn’t me 100% perfect because of the interlining of the M.
@@MysticTransit actually, the Manhattan bound Js are running on the express track between Broadway Junction and Myrtle. I just rode one.
Don’t get rid of it… the mta could make it run express between Marcy Av & Broadway Junction during rush hrs at peek direction
Peak Direction Express is very inefficient and should be removed whenever possible, it just causes too many operational headaches.
5:35 J to Chambers st? When was this recorded
Please do a video on platform extensions on the BMT Eastern lines
I think it's best if the Z train runs on the express track only like the Jamaican line express?
This shows none of you ride it daily. It's here for a reason and if it was so bad, MTA would have cut the Z already. They tried in 2010 and people were not having it. the 1/9 skip stop failed because how it was structured. It helps speed up the trip if you are traveling between Jamaica and Broadway junction and Manhattan. Thats why the Z was created, Skip Stop existed before the Z back in the 60s and 70s on the Jamaica Line.
Also They tried to have the Line go straight down Jamaica Ave past cypress hills but didn't happen due to the people not wanting a train running down their block. So that plan was crushed.
Perhaps there’s other alternatives no one else is looking into (my plan is underground connections).
why ot connect the z to the nearrest lirr braches.
The fly over back from Myrtle to Flushing cant work due to high rise buildings being in the way sadly taken over. Also at Marcy ave island platform wont fit there another high rise building in the way maybe by the Bus Terminal nearby there alot of open space I think there. But that express from Mrytle to Broadway junction and cypress hill that can may work I dont think there no big buildings there but
I think the middle track between cresent and Jamaica should be rebuilt to make the Z a peak direction express and the J fully local. Also I have provisions for it to go to Bath Beach or extend the Z to St george from broad st straight to the ferry terminal, or if Both do not work, we will just have to eliminate the Z completely until second av subway phase 3/4 opens, where the Z will become an all new line serving SAS and undeserved Queens areas via the 21 st queensbridge to the superbypass, my new Z train route will serve both from 125 st and St Nicholas all to the Rockaways, going the proposed superbypass then via the old Rockaway Beach Branch as an express train with the H doing local service on that same branch, the T would serve other places in queens as far as Cambria Heights Queens Village, Bayside and/or Little Neck, I this case the Z will be cyan like the T because it will run via 2nd av by then. The Z would replace the rockaway park shuttle to Rockaway Park and the Z would go from 125 and St Nicholas to Rockaway Park or Far Rockaway on weekdays, weekends the Z's northern termini will be cut back to 72 St where it merges with the T train and late nights the Z can be cut back again to 63 st Rego Park still running express from Howard Beach to Rego Park, where you can directly get the E train from rego park on late nights, which will be one of the stations that will show up in the proposed Rockaway Beach Branch rebuild
I know the best way to improve the Jamaica Line (and the Nassau and Myrtle lines).
-Restore the Nassau St Line’s former northbound tracks and add a new eastbound platform at Essex St.
-Widen the trackways on the Williamsburg Bridge to make room for a 4-track line. This would result in a lane reduction, but it won’t be a very big issue after congestion pricing is implemented.
-The new 4-track line can continue by replacing the section from Marcy Ave to Myrtle Ave with a 4-track line. Marcy Ave can be rebuilt as an express station and the rest can be rebuilt as local stations.
-Just before Myrtle Ave, the express tracks can serve the station’s lower level and become a 3-track line and the local tracks can serve a rebuilt upper level and also become a 3-track line.
The local tracks can continue as the Myrtle Line and the center track that used to exist can be re-installed.
-The rest of the Jamaica Line can continue as the express tracks and be retained as a 3-track line.
The section from Alabama Ave to Crescent St can replace the island platforms with side platforms and convert the stations to 3-track local stations.
Crescent St and Cypress Hills can be eliminated and be replaced by an express station in the middle of the S-shaped curve. That way, trains don’t have to slow down where there’s no station.
-Continue installing a center track until after 121st St where it finally ends before the Archer Ave Line.
-Replace Woodhaven Blvd and 104th St with an express station directly over and perpendicular to the currently-abandoned Rockaway Beach Branch as a provision for a transfer with Queenslink if it ever gets built.
-The new express stations I mentioned will not only reduce the number of stations and make journeys quicker but they also add express stations so that express trains wouldn’t have too few stops on a long section. Plus, all trains stopping at a station on the S-curve means no more weird slowdowns.
-The J’s termini would be Chambers St and Jamaica Center and the M’s termini would be Broad St and Metropolitan Ave. The J having a diamond variant would be obvious, but the M could have that too, bypassing Central Ave and Knickerbocker Ave in the peak direction.
Stop consolidation makes sense in some areas of the Jamaica Line. For example, Hewes Street and Lorimer Street should be consolidated with one stop at Broadway and a transfer to the G. I also think Alabama Avenue, Norwood Avenue, and Cypress Hills should be closed, with additional entrances added at adjacent stations. Peak direction express service makes sense for the Jamaica Line as it's long, has a lot of stops, and some of the busiest stations are at the end of the line. Woodhaven Boulevard is the only local station that should be converted to an express station because it has a lot of bus connections. I assume that express trains would make stops at Marcy Avenue, Myrtle Avenue, Broadway Junction, Woodhaven Boulevard, 121st Street, Sutphin Boulevard, and Parsons Boulevard.
The fact you found some videos of the train Z is a miracle 🤣
I definitely agree with building a third track along Jamaica Av from Bway Junction- Cypress Hills or even replacing the current stations on Fulton St for new ones with 3 tracks on Jamaica Av.
I would propose replacing Alabama Av station for a station on Bushwick - Pennsylvania Avs
Replacing Van Siclen Av & Cleveland St with a Station at Ridgewood Av & Jamaica Av.
And finally Replace Norwood Av with a station at Highland Blvd & Jamaica Av and converting Cypress Hills into an express Station.
Or we can have two separate routes where the Z will take the current Fulton St Stops and expand the Z to run via Rockaway Blvd and terminate at Rockaway Blvd for a transfer to the A train.
But only if the new infrastructure at Jamaica Av is built. And that curve on Crescent St is gone.
personally, i think we make the J local at all times, and make the Z express at all times, and removing skip stop service
OT:
Funny that SEPTA's Market-Frankford service, which is 2 tracks over its full length, eliminated Skip-Stop a few yrs ago after Decades of SS during Rush Hour.
Kill the Z, Demolish the Skip-Stop planning, J full time local service, revamp the other half of Jamaica Avenue. Then implement Rush Hour Express service
I know how they could improve the Z.
Make two exress tracks on every side platform local stop on the J, and the Z would run both directions express, not skip - stop. It would run on the express tracks.
It would only run on weekdays, and local on late nights.
admittedly the Z is under used, but I wouldn't make an argument to merc it entirely, even though skip stop on other lines aren't effective, they weren't around as long as the J/Z skip stop pattern, going WAAAAAAY back to 1970 they split it into A and B stations served by the QJ, and KK/MM. Admittedly the biggest reason I still like the Z is simply because even though i may have to wait longer for a train odds are its less crowded compared to the J that may rip through (especially during rush hour...) AM Rush towards the Junction makes Skip Stop feel useful rather than trying to shove myself into a sardine can of a train.
The best thing I can say about any of these plans would be either 1) Marcy Avenue being rebuilt since its relatively outdated and is no longer an Express Through Station like it was back in the day or 2) Myrtle Avenue Line Flyover. My Preference leans towards the Flyover, I've been on an J/Z that often gets stuck a train making a connection with an M, only to have the M leave first despite the fact the Express is a bit backed up. I don't know how the Execution would work especially since the Myrtle Upper Level hasnt been used and is also completely facing a different direction
Marcy Avenue should definitely be rebuilt as its VERY outdated as we can say and it can actually be used as a proper terminal for when the Williamsburg Bridge goes down
my biggest counter arguement to destroying any station no matter how little use is the distance... have you actually WALKED from 75th to Cresent... its not fun nor is it pretty, sure its under used... part of that being its literally next to a *swear word* graveyard no stations should be destroyed.
Finally I do think an Express on the Northern Portion of the Jamaica Line would be nice... the matter is Execution and even so, JC to Cypress is one of the faster portions, not where an Express track is
the S curve is painful sometimes but the restrictions are fast enough where it doesn't feel that bad
I just wonder how the Execution of an Express track down Jamaica Avenue would be... its a good idea on paper but how will it work
What is with the U4?
This all sounds great but if this were to happen, they would also need to make all of those elevated Jamaica line stations ADA accessible. No use increasing speeding up service if there's no passengers to take advantage.
Nah man, Z is my favorite letter.
Tuff.
What’s the difference between express and skip stop service?
Express service skips multiple stops in a row on a separate track. Skip-Stop Service alternates with another line to skip-stop-skip-stop, on the same track.
@@MysticTransitThanks
One improvement that the MTA should do with the BMT Eastern Division Line is that it gets reconstructed and propose a plan to lengthen the current trains from 8 cars to 9 cars which will definitely be an improvement. In order to accommodate 9-cars, some of the stations on the BMT Jamaica Line would have to be either reconfigured or eliminated. By reconstructing the line, I think that eliminating the sharp S curves will be very helpful as it will increase the travel times between 121st Street and Broadway Junction while the rest of the line between Broadway Junction and Broad Street is good the way how it is now. All of the stations between Broad Street and Broadway Junction would have to be reconstructed in order to accommodate 9 cars while the ones between Alabama Avenue and 121st Street would have to undergo modifications. I also think that adding a third track will be very helpful. Hopefully, these improvements get considered and I think that riders will benefit themselves if the J, L, & M Trains get lengthened from 8 cars to 9 cars.
I’d reintroduce the M train service via 4th Ave and New Utrecht Ave to Bay Pkwy. The D train would take its original service service on the Brighton Line and end at Brighton Beach and only head to Coney Island on late nights (12 AM - 6 AM) while the B train would go via the West End line and would serve all times except nights with the exception between 36th St and Coney Island.
The M train will fully be a part of the Nassau St Line and would enter downtown Brooklyn via Lawrence St and Court St and will serve express via 4th Ave and locally via New Utrecht Ave. The B train will serve peak hour express along New Utrecht Ave and a full time express along 4th Ave.
Reintroducing M train service to 4th Avenue would pretty much cut ridership away from Midtown, and this is considering that Midtown service is more heavily utilized than service to Lower Manhattan. In fact, I have proposals to replace the entire Jamaica service pattern with new rerouted services, specifically replacing current Nassau Street and 6th Avenue service entirely with service going via the 8th Avenue Line.
There’s also no need to restore the old B and D routes in Brooklyn and what works now is almost fine. In fact, what’s really needed is to deinterline everything. Send the N and Q to Brighton and the B and D to 4th Avenue. Also have the R train go to West End and with two new switches south of 36th Street, have the B go to 95th Street. That would be even more beneficial compared to just swapping the B and D routes back to the original routing and removing Myrtle Avenue service to Midtown for zero reasons other than nostalgia.
I agree with adding an extra third express track on the Jamaica line.
I think the stops with Jamaica/Broadway (Bklyn) Express should/would be like this:
Jamaica Center / Parsons Archer
Sutphin Blvd-JFK Airport
121st St
Woodhaven Blvd-Jamaica
Crescent St
Van Siclen Av
Alabama Av
Broadway Junction
Myrtle Av-Broadway
Marcy Av
Delancey St-Essex St
Bowery
Canal St
Chambers St
Fulton St
Broad St
Sounds good, but I do not believe that I can see this project completed in my lifetime lol
How about the Z replicates the former Brown M service prior to 2010. Let the southern terminal be at 9th Ave or Bay Parkway.
Nice Mystic Transit
I would make the stations a minimum of 1 mile apart from each other but make the stations nicer and improve the local bus and pedestrian paths to make access to them a lot easier.
I have a 2 questions: What are rush hours? And why do some lines do it?
Rush hour is basically when ridership has a large uptick because people are getting to work (and because of this, most rush hour trains are for Manhattan) , and so better frequencies and peak-direction express (towards Manhattan in the morning, towards the outer boroughs at night) is sometimes used.
If possible I’d make the J an express from Marcy Av to Broadway Junction. Or if the city feels like wasting more money make it to where the el branches outward from the original Jamaica El
Just have the Z do that
I would move marcy ave closer to the bus terminal so that they can build a y crossover at what was marcy
Now how about this it could be a stretch but look at Broadway junction for example having four tracks how about doing Marcy ave as a 2 island 4 track station making exp service to go both ways along Jamaica line to myrtle and have a flyover for the Queens bound track with switches south of the station so late night J train can run local and reducing wait times at myrtle for the M to cross tracks in front of the J. Late night M shuttle can switch to the Queens bound track after central Ave and wrong rail into myrtle Ave and after myrtle Ave it goes back to the 3 track setup and I do like the idea of the new exp track east of Broadway junction definitely need, yes the Z train is redundant but wouldn't want it to be eliminated but just used for something else maybe weekend service extension to Brighton Beach via Montague and Brighton exp
Lol so many comments from me, but this video resonates with me as someone who lives on this line…..I would love for them to extend that Myrtle Avenue structure back to downtown Brooklyn
I used to ride the J all the times but Z sometimes and now I always go on the 6
What if you keep the Z but to remove the skip stop system and make it express train.
I think the Z should be a branch of SAS since I’ve seen many proposals for it
SAS? What is that?
What if The J remains unchanged & the Z takes over Nassau St (since the J is more known for the Jamaica line & not it’s Nassau St designation) & take over some of the 2nd Ave Subway. Send the Z uptown via 2nd Ave or any subway project that is able to be connected up to the Nassau St Line & maybe send the Z to Brooklyn (I don’t live in nyc so idk how feasible it is)
I have 2 options one making it deleted forever or 2 tracks onto ofnlocal tracks to make express service
The flyover with the (M) line sounds like a really good idea, considering that the (M) train kinda delays the (J) as it's turning to go to Metropolitan Ave after Myrtle-Broadway, it will definitely make trains go faster. I will say, at first, I didn't think eliminating the (Z) train was necessary, but after watching this video, you're absolutely right, it's probably time to put this train to rest. I also think the MTA should replace the (Z) rush hour trips with a new express service. trains would run express between Marcy and Broadway Junction, and fully local for the rest of the route. This will be similar to the (6) and (7) trains as they also have a pattern like this. Like you said, this probably might not change anything cause the (J) would still have to give up trains to go express as it does with the (Z) right now, but the good thing is they would run more frequently. And heck, when the R211s finally enter service, maybe they can help extend the (J)'s service so that it can run more trains.
If the MTA does decide to build new express tracks and make the line a 4-track line, then maybe the (Z) can stay and be the express train while the (J) can be local. I don't see how there's any other way the (Z) can stay. Even if the (Z) is extended to 4th avenue along the old Brown (M) route, it wouldn't work cause not only would the line be too long, but the whole reason why the Brown (M) failed was because not a lot of people used the Nassau Street trains to get to Downtown Brooklyn, so I can definitely picture the (Z) train having a lot of empty trains too.
@breadandcircuses8127Welp time to make the m a shuttle.
*"No more R143 (Z) train!"*
*Vine boom intensifies*
Funny because I just took the (Z) Train not too long ago and it got me where I needed to go with no problems. So I think we can improve service on the (Z) line but I don't think getting rid of the (Z) Train is the solution.
The J and Z lines are in chain, the same line, like the 1 and 9 train, MTA consolidate the 9 to the 1, and the Z is coming to be consolidate the Z to the J