Eberl's Symphony in E flat major was premiered at the same concert as Beethoven's Eroica Symphony on 7 April 1805, and it received rather more positive reviews than Beethoven's did
I am not surprised that this symphony of Eberl's received more positive reviews than Beethoven, Dear Mr. Kuhlau, as this piece is not only truly excellent, it is more along the late Haydn line of thinking, something which would have been more comforting to perceive. Certainly it makes less demands on the listener, though, it does not lack for depth.
From the new oxford history of music? ;) There is a lot of Mozart: the first movement even remembers the 'gran partita' serenade. I also have the Köln box set. In any case, really a great musician!
Apparently there was a reviewer who had been around in the Baroque Era, who complained aboutthe fact that the emotion of Beethoven's piece changed every few seconds. I find that kind of funny, personally :P
No wonder it was positively taken, it's simply better written. Eroica has serious balance problems between sections and movements, like pretty much any piece by Beethoven. I don't think there was any other composer who was forced by the publisher to replace a movement of their work just because it was too long; to Beethoven it happened at least twice.
@@Pawel_Malecki This symphony is a monument of mediocrity, and even mentioning it in one breath with Beethoven's "Eroica" is a severe sacrileg"! What benefit do we get from the perfect "balance" of the axiom 2+2=4? Every kindergarten kid knows that; but humankind does not at all advance by repeating this over and over again! Eberl has written some interesting sonatas though, from which you can at least guess that contemporaries considered him being a challenger of Beethoven!
If only Eberl had lived longer, perhaps he would have continued the craft of Mozart like Beethoven continued the innovation of Haydn. Absolutely brilliant and forgotten symphony.
There is no such thing as continue craft, its music elements that the composer think and sure got inspired by many composer, Scarlatti did it Cpe bach, martini padre and more, its a art that many people dont understand only the composer himself
Aside from how good this composition is: pretty much anything played by Concerto Köln is a must-hear. I don't know how they do this but they are perfect in every single recording.
In this symphony Eberl was really breaking away from the Mozartian mould and forging a style of his own. This work looks forward to the symphonies of Schubert and beyond. I know it's always said how much we have lost when a composer dies young, but with Eberl I think it is true. This is by any standards a Master Work.
@@loganfruchtman953 Definitely not, it's already far beyond Beethoven just like Mozart always was. I wonder if Schubert heard it before writing his 5th.
The second movement sounds somewhat like a funeral march at times. Very appropriates since it was premiered at the same time as Beethoven's 3rd. I hear quite a bit of Sturm and Drang style in this. Anyone who likes this symphony should also hear Ferdinand Ries' 1st symphony and Carl Czerny's symphony in D major (1814) as they have a similar tenor.
Listening to this music in a concert hall would leave me absolutely delighted. With no musical training, I am completely unqualified to judge by comparison to Beethoven, Schubert and others as some have done on this blog; but to reiterate, although I find this music delightful, there is something in my brain which is much more excited by Beethoven, and wonder why this should be so, given the learned comments on the blog. I imagine musical appreciation is as subjunctive as anything else, so after all, my untrained appreciation probably has some place in the debate.
It's like a Mozart's overture, probably "Le Nozze..." one is the best comparison because it omits the "audience, could you please stop talking" fanfares and jumps straight into the main course.
Although it was received more positively than Beethoven's Symphony No.3, the immortal work, why has it ever faded into obscurity? Different from Mozart's or Hydn's symphonies, it clearly shows Eberl's own style, which should have been recognized as one of the establishments. It is like a beautiful deep sea fish.
Contemporary opinion failed to understand Beethoven's work as well as people do now. Not to say this work is bad at all - honestly, I really love this one, and do feel it should be better-known. But Beethoven's 3rd is maybe the best of Beethoven's cycle, which is already one of the best historic symphonic cycles, so it's not entirely the fairest comparison :P
There's nothing to understand in a man shouting the same sentence to me tens of times. Mozart in the same amount of time tells me twelve sentences, rephrases five and starts making retrospections while adding new thoughts along. Beethoven is just yelling at me without making a point, Mozart conducts a meaningful conversation.
@@Pawel_Malecki yes that's true ^^' and Bach is many levels above, high litterature in comparaison with Mozart's conversation (however pleasant and refined). But Beethoven lacks subtlety sometimes (often 😅)
I see that the last comment was 2 years ago, but that does'nt matter. Almost at once I was captures by this, to me unknown, symphony and composer. Great!
John Kilbourne Beethoven’s 9th was written about twenty years later and premiered in 1824. But to me the „Beethoven“ Moment came at the very end at 28:50 when I heard a bit of Wellington‘s Victory, though I doubt Beethoven thought of this music when he wrote the piece so many years later.
For those interested, this symphony did premiere at the same time as Beethoven's Eroica. It received more positive reviews than Beethoven's symphony did, likely due to Beethoven uncomfortably long and tiresome first movement. That was 1805. Eberl died just 2 years later in 1807, so we'll never know what heights he might have soared to. I like this symphony a lot, but it lacks memorable thematic material in many places. The scherzo-style minuet is brilliant. Masterful use of the orchestra, masterful ability to compose, yet it does not easily draw me back in. Great to listen to. Thumbs up.
Luke Sargent Grande musica, certamente, ma sono altre, a mio avviso, le pagine di Eberl in cui egli si avvicina a Beethoven; p. es. la Piano Sonata in G-minor, Op.39
Antonio Fabi I believe the Scherzo of this symphony comes very close to something Beethoven would write. Maybe even disturbingly close. Wouldnt't you agree? -> 17:02
Very interesting. A slightly odd hotchpotch of light baroque textures and heavy Beethovenian textures, and an insight of where music may have gone without Beethoven.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but please stop comparing this to other composers. I keep reading comments online all over the place about how this symphony is "functional" and similar to this, that, and the other, but I'm just not getting that feeling. Am I super naive, because the style of this symph feels completely individual to me. I feel like this should be canon. I need major symphs around the world performing this. I need this to be a standard. Do people agree or disagree that this is a great example of traditional classical style while showing unique personal touches? If just for the whimsical bass moments. Or is this just workaday to everyone?
For all of you commenting that Beethoven may have quoted this or that part of this symphony, 15:24-16:00 is a very slight variation on a section from the first movement of Mozart's flute quartet in A.
Anton Franz Josef Eberl est un compositeur et pianiste autrichien, né le 13 juin 1765 à Vienne (Autriche) et décédé le 11 mars 1807 dans la même ville. Biographie Après des études de droit, il se consacre au piano, un instrument qu'il pratique depuis son enfance. Il devient professeur de piano et crée des Variations pour piano dont Mozart se sert lors de ses propres cours. Les deux hommes semblent très proches comme le démontre la partition autographe d'une symphonie d'Eberl de 1783 qui porte les corrections de Mozart. À sa mort en 1791, il compose la cantate funèbre Bey Mozarts Grab (La tombe de Mozart). En 1796, il est nommé maître de chapelle et compositeur à la cour de Paul Ier de Russie, à Saint-Pétersbourg. Les compositions de cette période sont malheureusement perdues. De retour à Vienne, son opéra La Reine des îles noires est un échec, mais Haydn en défend l'ouverture avec constance. Puis il crée l'une de ses symphonies les plus réussies, en mi bémol majeur op. 33, qui annonce Schubert. À la création de la 3e symphonie de Beethoven en avril 1805, c'est la symphonie en mi bémol majeur (également donnée ce jour-là) qui est préférée par le public et la critique. Eberl meurt d'une septicémie, alors qu'il vient de composer sa dernière symphonie dédiée au tsar Alexandre Ier. Œuvres Même s'il est pratiquement tombé depuis dans l'oubli (jusqu'à sa redécouverte récente), il faut savoir qu'Eberl fut un très grand compositeur, unanimement considéré à son époque, comme l'égal des plus grands, comme Haydn, Mozart et Beethoven, et même souvent comparé avantageusement par rapport à ceux-ci, tant par la critique que par le public. Il était, entre autres, admiré par des compositeurs de son époque aussi brillants que Gluck 1 et Haydn. Mais sa popularité fera que nombre de ses œuvres (comme sa Sonate pour piano op. 1) furent attribuées à tort à… Mozart. Ainsi, les variations pour piano sur Zu Steffen sprach im Traume furent publiés quatorze fois sous le nom de Mozart, et pas une seule fois sous celui de leur compositeur véritable.
Good Lord - how right you are that this is a 'Must-Hear', Dear Mr. Kuhlau. This is like a cross between Mehul and Beethoven - an entire Napoleonick Battlefield in a little bag of potatoes chips! What a fantastickj piece, from every angle - lyrical, dramatick episodry, dynamick contrast, tone colours and complete control of the fast-moving narrative.
A great work; the 1st movement in particular certainly equals the brilliance and innovation of Beethoven's Eroica symphony; premiered in that same year. Two voices giving an almost equal expression to the greater collective aspirations and spiritual challenges of the particular time in which these respective works were composed.
Menuetto sounds almost Scherzo ! Very interesting, not only Beethoven introduced Scherzo as 3rd movement in symphony at these days, I recognized. And also I saw many brilliant ingenuity and artistic skills on this music, especially the power and humor !
Scherzo-like minuets were already in Haydn's symphonies a decade earlier. Beethoven just stopped labelling them as minuets. Even Mozart's symphonic minuets in 1788 are already not very dance-like.
This Anton Eberl was among the best composers of his time, very much acclaimed by the public and the critics. This Symphony is a very good work in the style Mozart and Haydn had settled in Vienna, Not reminescent of daring Beethoven's First and Second Symphony, Eberl shows a personal style. There is a lot of his teacher's and friend Mozart the music, his elegance and respect for form and equilibrium. However in my opinion the comparison with Beethoven's Eroica is merciless. It is two different Universes - no doubt Beethoven's work was so novel and disrupting that public and critics could not relly stand it. And poor Eberl in the long run was forgotten.
it's rather odd that a classic symphony finishes with a long harmonic pedal (I) only interrupted by a short dominant (V) moment. The proportions between tonic and dominant in that passage are way more romantic.
This syphony dates of 1603. It is not likely that Eberl heard the first symphonies of Beethoven. He should have heard the symphonies of Moeart and above all Haydn, who was very popular at that time. However, this symphony has few to do with Haydn. The composer had a personality of his own, which deserves to be rediscovered.Eberl died prematurely, which does not allow us to see what direction his art should have taken under the influence of Beethoven.
Interestingly it hasn't changed all too much. The building to the right still exists and the view is still like that. The building to the left was damaged during WW2 however and is now a modern round glass building.
Why would you even reply if the question has been answered already? oO As +KuhlauDilfeng2 correctly stated, it's a painting by Rudolf von Alt of the Stephansdom, or as you call it "Vienna cathedral".
The Stephansplatz is a square at the geographical centre of Vienna. It is named after its most prominent building, the Stephansdom, Vienna's cathedral and one of the tallest churches in the world. Before the 20th century, a row of houses separated Stephansplatz from Stock-im-Eisen-Platz,[1] but since their destruction, the name Stephansplatz started to be used for the wider area covering both. Wikipedia. Wonderfully exciting music, by the way.
It’s certainly refreshing to hear an authentic extra Viennese voice, and played so well. However, much of this symphony just sounds like a musical joke after so many years of listening to and studying the masters. There is no grasp of medium and long range harmonic sense; subsequently the music wanders aimlessly (albeit energetically), and when he realises he’s going nowhere in particular, he just changes the subject to something even sillier than the idea he just abandoned. The finale benefits the most from his quixotic approach. I imagine his variations and rondos are terrific. But it’s almost like he composed this symphony using the ‘40 bars a day, write as you feel this morning’ method.
Some interesting coincidences that this symphony and the Eroica were premiered at the same concert: they are in the same key; first movements have a revolutionary sweep to them; the slow movements are funeral-march-like. Total conjecture-but might the two composers have compared notes or something?
А что? Ничуть не хуже Бетховена! Если бы Владимир Ильич послушал ему бы тоже непременно понравилось! "Расстрелять, непременно расстрелять! Но перед этим напоить чаем и обязательно горячим"
It was not uncommon for a keyboard instrument to feature as a form of continuo, even into the early 1800s. At the premiere of Haydn's symphony no 103, Haydn himself conducted while at the piano. In symphonies in particular, the continuo was still used by composers, although became increasingly uncommon into the 19th century. This was partly because orchestras became much larger, so the need for the orchestra to be supported by a keyboardist/basso continuo was greatly reduced to the point of irrelevance. This is a period performance, so the performers are trying to replicate how this symphony was first performed.
Incontestablement moins bien bâtie que du Beethoven, cette symphonie est pleine de petite "erreurs d'ambiance musicale" , et d'une logique "en gros sabots" qui la plombe. Suffit pas d'épouser les tics du temps et les accords affirmatifs pour QUE CE SOIT UNE GRANDE OEUVRE. Des qualités mais, pas vraiment inoubliables. Thèmes insuffisamment pré-étudiés, à la différence de son célèbre contemporain. C'est encore le finale qui est le mieux conçu.
I suspect the piano is not a piano but a clavichord or fortepiano. Not much sustain, more thuddy. Sounds just like the one in the long, BBC version of Pride & Prejudice. Also, fun to hear the direct or reverse quote of Beethoven's ninth in the last movement of the Eberl. Someone's having fun?
Eberl's Symphony in E flat major was premiered at the same concert as Beethoven's Eroica Symphony on 7 April 1805, and it received rather more positive reviews than Beethoven's did
I am not surprised that this symphony of Eberl's received more positive reviews than Beethoven, Dear Mr. Kuhlau, as this piece is not only truly excellent, it is more along the late Haydn line of thinking, something which would have been more comforting to perceive. Certainly it makes less demands on the listener, though, it does not lack for depth.
From the new oxford history of music? ;)
There is a lot of Mozart: the first movement even remembers the 'gran partita' serenade.
I also have the Köln box set. In any case, really a great musician!
Apparently there was a reviewer who had been around in the Baroque Era, who complained aboutthe fact that the emotion of Beethoven's piece changed every few seconds. I find that kind of funny, personally :P
No wonder it was positively taken, it's simply better written. Eroica has serious balance problems between sections and movements, like pretty much any piece by Beethoven. I don't think there was any other composer who was forced by the publisher to replace a movement of their work just because it was too long; to Beethoven it happened at least twice.
@@Pawel_Malecki This symphony is a monument of mediocrity, and even mentioning it in one breath with Beethoven's "Eroica" is a severe sacrileg"! What benefit do we get from the perfect "balance" of the axiom 2+2=4? Every kindergarten kid knows that; but humankind does not at all advance by repeating this over and over again! Eberl has written some interesting sonatas though, from which you can at least guess that contemporaries considered him being a challenger of Beethoven!
It is incredible music. It is even more incredible that this man was a student of Mozart AND Salieri AND knew Beethoven...imagine the stories!
Yes indeed.....BRAVO from Acapulco!
If only Eberl had lived longer, perhaps he would have continued the craft of Mozart like Beethoven continued the innovation of Haydn. Absolutely brilliant and forgotten symphony.
Your wrong
There is no such thing as continue craft, its music elements that the composer think and sure got inspired by many composer, Scarlatti did it Cpe bach, martini padre and more, its a art that many people dont understand only the composer himself
Aside from how good this composition is: pretty much anything played by Concerto Köln is a must-hear. I don't know how they do this but they are perfect in every single recording.
At 13:28 the flute sounds like 'my heart will go on'😍
Bex Zunge i know i Love it
In this symphony Eberl was really breaking away from the Mozartian mould and forging a style of his own. This work looks forward to the symphonies of Schubert and beyond. I know it's always said how much we have lost when a composer dies young, but with Eberl I think it is true. This is by any standards a Master Work.
Fr Jonathan you mean Beethoven and beyond
@@loganfruchtman953 Definitely not, it's already far beyond Beethoven just like Mozart always was.
I wonder if Schubert heard it before writing his 5th.
The second movement sounds somewhat like a funeral march at times. Very appropriates since it was premiered at the same time as Beethoven's 3rd. I hear quite a bit of Sturm and Drang style in this. Anyone who likes this symphony should also hear Ferdinand Ries' 1st symphony and Carl Czerny's symphony in D major (1814) as they have a similar tenor.
Thanks BK for your insights and pointers , always helpful.
Yes, Dear Mr. Knapp, there are shadows of CPE Bach, here, though, they most of them (not all) feel laundered through the Haydn washing machine.
Bee Sherman .
@@beasheerhan4482 Ah don't remind me of the Haydn washing machine monsieur!
I did not even this composer,thanks for introducing his work.
Listening to this music in a concert hall would leave me absolutely delighted. With no musical training, I am completely unqualified to judge by comparison to Beethoven, Schubert and others as some have done on this blog; but to reiterate, although I find this music delightful, there is something in my brain which is much more excited by Beethoven, and wonder why this should be so, given the learned comments on the blog. I imagine musical appreciation is as subjunctive as anything else, so after all, my untrained appreciation probably has some place in the debate.
as a professional musician - I also think so! => you're totally right :)
Thank you for introducing me to this almost forgotten composer.....love his music 👏👏👏
No doubt.The best symphony ever composed and the composer unknown by the public.Something must be done …..
Wonderful exciting music. Reminds me of the scenery and nature.
One of the few examples in which the first few 5-6 seconds already tell you the symphony will be an excellent piece.
It's like a Mozart's overture, probably "Le Nozze..." one is the best comparison because it omits the "audience, could you please stop talking" fanfares and jumps straight into the main course.
This is a superb work, with accomplished performers. First rate.
I agree
Thank you I adore this symphony, love sturm and drang music, great admirer of Mr Eberl now, also your wonderful pictures that accompany
Now that painting is beautiful too. Makes me want to go back to Vienna
This is what i'd imagine Mozart would have sounded like had he have lived longer
beautiful music, beautiful church, beautiful painting!
Although it was received more positively than Beethoven's Symphony No.3, the immortal work, why has it ever faded into obscurity? Different from Mozart's or Hydn's symphonies, it clearly shows Eberl's own style, which should have been recognized as one of the establishments. It is like a beautiful deep sea fish.
Contemporary opinion failed to understand Beethoven's work as well as people do now.
Not to say this work is bad at all - honestly, I really love this one, and do feel it should be better-known. But Beethoven's 3rd is maybe the best of Beethoven's cycle, which is already one of the best historic symphonic cycles, so it's not entirely the fairest comparison :P
There's nothing to understand in a man shouting the same sentence to me tens of times. Mozart in the same amount of time tells me twelve sentences, rephrases five and starts making retrospections while adding new thoughts along. Beethoven is just yelling at me without making a point, Mozart conducts a meaningful conversation.
@@Pawel_Malecki yes that's true ^^' and Bach is many levels above, high litterature in comparaison with Mozart's conversation (however pleasant and refined). But Beethoven lacks subtlety sometimes (often 😅)
Most music fades into obscurity. This just doesn't have the immortal qualities of Beethoven.
Impressively dank.
Lots of more people need to hear this.
Sounded interesting the first time, but every time I listen, I like it more.
excellent music! Thank you!
Una sinfonia hermosa.Gracias por traerla nuevamente.A la vida publica...
Fantastic! Thank you for the upload.
I see that the last comment was 2 years ago, but that does'nt matter. Almost at once I was captures by this, to me unknown, symphony and composer. Great!
This is a very curious and original composition.
Wow, great symphony and a great performance.It has a lot of positive energy in it! Thank you for the uploads.
Thank you for introducing such amazing, splendid music! 👍👍👍🌹🌹🌹🌟🌷🌿🌷🌿🌷🌿🌷🌿🌷🌿💖💖💖
My first time hearing this work. I like it!
The "Beethoven quote is at 28:26". Beethoven's 9th was later, I presume. Who quoted whom?
John Kilbourne Beethoven’s 9th was written about twenty years later and premiered in 1824. But to me the „Beethoven“ Moment came at the very end at 28:50 when I heard a bit of Wellington‘s Victory, though I doubt Beethoven thought of this music when he wrote the piece so many years later.
Love Anton Eberl music ❤️
Simply a masterpiece.
For those interested, this symphony did premiere at the same time as Beethoven's Eroica. It received more positive reviews than Beethoven's symphony did, likely due to Beethoven uncomfortably long and tiresome first movement. That was 1805. Eberl died just 2 years later in 1807, so we'll never know what heights he might have soared to.
I like this symphony a lot, but it lacks memorable thematic material in many places. The scherzo-style minuet is brilliant. Masterful use of the orchestra, masterful ability to compose, yet it does not easily draw me back in.
Great to listen to. Thumbs up.
Luke Sargent Grande musica, certamente, ma sono altre, a mio avviso, le pagine di Eberl in cui egli si avvicina a Beethoven; p. es. la Piano Sonata in G-minor, Op.39
Antonio Fabi I believe the Scherzo of this symphony comes very close to something Beethoven would write. Maybe even disturbingly close. Wouldnt't you agree? -> 17:02
I agree, but for me it is a wonder, not a nuisance. Thanks to you the answer.
+Luke Sargent I completely agree, sir. A very fair consideration.
Uncomfortably long and tiresome? Are you insane?
Excellent work! I can see why it got a very good review at its premiere
love this symphony, never heard this composer before must listen to more of his works, thanks the post.
Very interesting. A slightly odd hotchpotch of light baroque textures and heavy Beethovenian textures, and an insight of where music may have gone without Beethoven.
The best symphony I,ve ever heard.....uf uf
Splendid.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but please stop comparing this to other composers. I keep reading comments online all over the place about how this symphony is "functional" and similar to this, that, and the other, but I'm just not getting that feeling. Am I super naive, because the style of this symph feels completely individual to me. I feel like this should be canon. I need major symphs around the world performing this. I need this to be a standard. Do people agree or disagree that this is a great example of traditional classical style while showing unique personal touches? If just for the whimsical bass moments. Or is this just workaday to everyone?
zBeest I completely agree
a real masterpiece!
С 250-ти летием, г-н Антон Эберль, гениальный соперник Людвига Бетховена!
For all of you commenting that Beethoven may have quoted this or that part of this symphony, 15:24-16:00 is a very slight variation on a section from the first movement of Mozart's flute quartet in A.
Where in Beethoven's works quoted the music you time stamped? I don't recognize this in any of Beethoven's works I've listened too.
Anton Franz Josef Eberl est un compositeur et pianiste autrichien, né le 13 juin 1765 à Vienne (Autriche) et décédé le 11 mars 1807 dans la même ville.
Biographie
Après des études de droit, il se consacre au piano, un instrument qu'il pratique depuis son enfance. Il devient professeur de piano et crée des Variations pour piano dont Mozart se sert lors de ses propres cours. Les deux hommes semblent très proches comme le démontre la partition autographe d'une symphonie d'Eberl de 1783 qui porte les corrections de Mozart. À sa mort en 1791, il compose la cantate funèbre Bey Mozarts Grab (La tombe de Mozart).
En 1796, il est nommé maître de chapelle et compositeur à la cour de Paul Ier de Russie, à Saint-Pétersbourg. Les compositions de cette période sont malheureusement perdues.
De retour à Vienne, son opéra La Reine des îles noires est un échec, mais Haydn en défend l'ouverture avec constance. Puis il crée l'une de ses symphonies les plus réussies, en mi bémol majeur op. 33, qui annonce Schubert. À la création de la 3e symphonie de Beethoven en avril 1805, c'est la symphonie en mi bémol majeur (également donnée ce jour-là) qui est préférée par le public et la critique.
Eberl meurt d'une septicémie, alors qu'il vient de composer sa dernière symphonie dédiée au tsar Alexandre Ier.
Œuvres
Même s'il est pratiquement tombé depuis dans l'oubli (jusqu'à sa redécouverte récente), il faut savoir qu'Eberl fut un très grand compositeur, unanimement considéré à son époque, comme l'égal des plus grands, comme Haydn, Mozart et Beethoven, et même souvent comparé avantageusement par rapport à ceux-ci, tant par la critique que par le public. Il était, entre autres, admiré par des compositeurs de son époque aussi brillants que Gluck 1 et Haydn. Mais sa popularité fera que nombre de ses œuvres (comme sa Sonate pour piano op. 1) furent attribuées à tort à… Mozart. Ainsi, les variations pour piano sur Zu Steffen sprach im Traume furent publiés quatorze fois sous le nom de Mozart, et pas une seule fois sous celui de leur compositeur véritable.
maravilloso'
magnifica musica.
Good Lord - how right you are that this is a 'Must-Hear', Dear Mr. Kuhlau. This is like a cross between Mehul and Beethoven - an entire Napoleonick Battlefield in a little bag of potatoes chips! What a fantastickj piece, from every angle - lyrical, dramatick episodry, dynamick contrast, tone colours and complete control of the fast-moving narrative.
LINDAS OPERAS NAO PODEMOS DEIXAR ELAS NO ESQUECIMENTO DA HUMANIDADE
13:24 and 6:41
A great work; the 1st movement in particular certainly equals the brilliance and innovation of Beethoven's Eroica symphony; premiered in that same year. Two voices giving an almost equal expression to the greater collective aspirations and spiritual challenges of the particular time in which these respective works were composed.
Menuetto sounds almost Scherzo ! Very interesting, not only Beethoven introduced Scherzo as 3rd movement in symphony at these days, I recognized.
And also I saw many brilliant ingenuity and artistic skills on this music, especially the power and humor !
Scherzo-like minuets were already in Haydn's symphonies a decade earlier. Beethoven just stopped labelling them as minuets. Even Mozart's symphonic minuets in 1788 are already not very dance-like.
Haydn substituted minuets for scherzi in all of his 6 "Russian" quartets back in 1781 - well before Beethoven's 2nd and 3rd sonatas.
This Anton Eberl was among the best composers of his time, very much acclaimed by the public and the critics. This Symphony is a very good work in the style Mozart and Haydn had settled in Vienna, Not reminescent of daring Beethoven's First and Second Symphony, Eberl shows a personal style. There is a lot of his teacher's and friend Mozart the music, his elegance and respect for form and equilibrium. However in my opinion the comparison with Beethoven's Eroica is merciless. It is two different Universes - no doubt Beethoven's work was so novel and disrupting that public and critics could not relly stand it. And poor Eberl in the long run was forgotten.
Brilliant no less
So romantic coda!!! 11:13 min. With a modern orchestra that could sound like Schumann!
No more Beethoven
José Luis Perdigón there is no corona on the last note. It was usual in romantic era.
it's rather odd that a classic symphony finishes with a long harmonic pedal (I) only interrupted by a short dominant (V) moment. The proportions between tonic and dominant in that passage are way more romantic.
This syphony dates of 1603. It is not likely that Eberl heard the first symphonies of Beethoven. He should have heard the symphonies of Moeart and above all Haydn, who was very popular at that time. However, this symphony has few to do with Haydn. The composer had a personality of his own, which deserves to be rediscovered.Eberl died prematurely, which does not allow us to see what direction his art should have taken under the influence of Beethoven.
Хорошо написано, одобряю
What is the painting?
Der Stephansdom vom Stock im Eisenplatz by Rudolf von Alt.
Interestingly it hasn't changed all too much. The building to the right still exists and the view is still like that.
The building to the left was damaged during WW2 however and is now a modern round glass building.
Why would you even reply if the question has been answered already? oO
As +KuhlauDilfeng2 correctly stated, it's a painting by Rudolf von Alt of the Stephansdom, or as you call it "Vienna cathedral".
The Stephansplatz is a square at the geographical centre of Vienna. It is named after its most prominent building, the Stephansdom, Vienna's cathedral and one of the tallest churches in the world. Before the 20th century, a row of houses separated Stephansplatz from Stock-im-Eisen-Platz,[1] but since their destruction, the name Stephansplatz started to be used for the wider area covering both. Wikipedia. Wonderfully exciting music, by the way.
It’s certainly refreshing to hear an authentic extra Viennese voice, and played so well. However, much of this symphony just sounds like a musical joke after so many years of listening to and studying the masters. There is no grasp of medium and long range harmonic sense; subsequently the music wanders aimlessly (albeit energetically), and when he realises he’s going nowhere in particular, he just changes the subject to something even sillier than the idea he just abandoned. The finale benefits the most from his quixotic approach. I imagine his variations and rondos are terrific. But it’s almost like he composed this symphony using the ‘40 bars a day, write as you feel this morning’ method.
I wouldn't be as drastic, and many of the ideas are not silly to my ears. But yes, ultimately it often feels aimless and meandering.
Well, this piece may sound like the work of Haydn, or Mozart, or Czerny, or even Schubert, but it certainly doesn't sound like Beethoven.
Well, this piece certainly sounds better than Beethoven.
@@Pawel_Malecki not at all
Some interesting coincidences that this symphony and the Eroica were premiered at the same concert: they are in the same key; first movements have a revolutionary sweep to them; the slow movements are funeral-march-like. Total conjecture-but might the two composers have compared notes or something?
It looks as Mozart if only had he lived till 1803
Génial.
🌹🌺
Damn - this is just as good as Beethoven in the first movement.
yes - because Beethoven also appriciated Eberls music because he was really skilled
Esta bien.
I mean maybe it is not the intent of Mozart, many of Eberl's work is considered Mozart's
Well, it was published under his name; and the mistake wasn't corrected for many years. Eberl didn't say anything poor guy
А что? Ничуть не хуже Бетховена!
Если бы Владимир Ильич послушал ему бы тоже непременно понравилось!
"Расстрелять, непременно расстрелять! Но перед этим напоить чаем и обязательно горячим"
)))
Quitando el tema principal de la Eroica, que esta muy por encima , esta obra es, como vio la critica en su momento, superior a aquella.
Man, why on earth would you play this symphony with basso continuo made by a piano? And with baroque bowing techniques??
It was not uncommon for a keyboard instrument to feature as a form of continuo, even into the early 1800s. At the premiere of Haydn's symphony no 103, Haydn himself conducted while at the piano. In symphonies in particular, the continuo was still used by composers, although became increasingly uncommon into the 19th century. This was partly because orchestras became much larger, so the need for the orchestra to be supported by a keyboardist/basso continuo was greatly reduced to the point of irrelevance.
This is a period performance, so the performers are trying to replicate how this symphony was first performed.
Adding to that (if you're still interested 6 years later), 'baroque' bowing technique didn't end after the Baroque period at all.
Uitstekend.
He must have really been influenced by Beethoven there are a lot of Beethoven excerpts in this symphony
...except it's 1803. It's the other way round: Eberl's excerpts are in Beethoven's works.
Incontestablement moins bien bâtie que du Beethoven, cette symphonie est pleine de petite "erreurs d'ambiance musicale" , et d'une logique "en gros sabots" qui la plombe. Suffit pas d'épouser les tics du temps et les accords affirmatifs pour QUE CE SOIT UNE GRANDE OEUVRE. Des qualités mais, pas vraiment inoubliables. Thèmes insuffisamment pré-étudiés, à la différence de son célèbre contemporain. C'est encore le finale qui est le mieux conçu.
This had more positive reviews than the eroica. 😂
I suspect the piano is not a piano but a clavichord or fortepiano. Not much sustain, more thuddy. Sounds just like the one in the long, BBC version of Pride & Prejudice. Also, fun to hear the direct or reverse quote of Beethoven's ninth in the last movement of the Eberl. Someone's having fun?
Beethoven having fun stealing from Eberl. This predates Beethoven's 9th a lot.
Sounds like P.D.Q Bach
I agree! With less jazz sounds and plastic tubes ;-)
It could benefit from a minor key kazoo choir here and there though.
Beethoven also said this symphony is a MUST HEAR.
Esta bien.