What if Nixon Was Never President?
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2022
- Nixon was a funny man with a funny plan. He has a pretty infamous legacy, or not, depending on your point of view. Yet he was a major figure of the 70s. And I was asked this question enough so I'm doing it. What if Nixon was never president? What if somebody else took charge?
Special thanks to Jimmy for suggesting this video: / jimmhub
Twitter: / althistoryhub
Patreon: / alternatehistoryhub
We'd lose out on so many great Futurama jokes.
And the Nixonverse
And one crook
"Shut up dammit!"
He's right you know
Nixon the greatest Anti-Hero !
Imagine political scandals not ending with the word gate .
Obama-Scandal
Pizza-Scandal
Russia-Scandal
Elsa-Scandal
Gamer-Scandal
Yeah, Its just not the same
@@rimfire8217 Feels like a lot of them only took off in public consciousness because there was a snappy way to refer to them. The name also becomes something to rally behind, without which people need to actually examine what they believe about it.
@@rimfire8217 gamergate
@Pinky Vitzsteak Sports in general honestly, especially football
We'd have Spy-scandal, Bounty-scandal, and Deflate-scandal instead of Spygate, Bountygate, and Deflategate
@@rimfire8217 it’s better without Watergate.
I do think Kennedy would have had a better chance of beating Nixon than Humphrey simply because he was anti-war, and the tide dramatically shifted in '68 in the direction of the anti-war movement. Sure, he would have lost the racist segregationist votes to Wallace, but Humphrey did, too (which is why he ultimately lost). This video was amazing btw!
Interesting seeing you here im a big fan
The map.
Nixon was also anti war
No way. Mr. Beast.
@@ImperiumMagistrate was this or after he let the war last another 6 years, while authorizing illegal bombings into Cambodia and Loas?
It’s fair to mention that Bobby Kennedy was Irish, which until recently had been considered a nonwhite minority by many Americans.
My favorite story is about Bobby and John in prep school. The upper crust WASPs called them Muckers, after Irish workers who would shovel shit out of the stables of English aristocrats. The Kennedys used it as a mascot to start a gang, IDed with little shovel necklaces. They started retaliating by filling the bullies lockers with horseshit, and other shenanigans.
Would this Presidency Reinvigorate that Stigma?
Maybe a Little but not a Lot.
What tomfoolery
@@rimfire8217 It raised serious campaign issues for John. He did interviews explaining how he was an American first.
It is fair to point out, that there is nothing ironic about John and Bobby having civil rights street cred despite being “rich white guys” as OP describes. While there is truth to that description, JFK’s election was inherently demonstrative of the shifting demographics and racial attitudes as well as the decline Political party power-brokers.
What would have been disqualifying in 1945 was a major political asset in 1960. After WW2 non-WASPS began to be considered white, which allowed descendants of recent immigrants, including millions of working-class Catholics of various ethnicities who made up JFK’s energetic base, were able to vote for “someone like them” without losing the Southern Conservatives Dems.
Interestingly not only did Sinatra help the campaign, but Cesar Chavez vigorously organized and campaigned for both brothers. He called JFK the “Mexican President”. That effect was so powerful that “Beto” O’Rourke was able to run for office 3 times as a shitty rip-off of Bobby Kennedy 60 years later, with nothing else to his name but a trust fund and a felony
And that wasn’t even their last revenge. The Kennedys became known as American royalty and the WASPY elite power fell right after JFK was elected.
Also their sister married a British aristocrat I believe? Once again beating them at their own game.
@@i.willacceptfood9352 Thank you for laying that all out for us.
It was weird to me, that Nixon would constantly emerge from history of XX century America, when ever I was looking, but now I can see that's not because of him being such an important person, it's because his time was so important.
Yeah
That is the best, and only correct, spelling of AMERYKA
@@idontknoq4813 corrected
Yeah, his importance in history is because of the cultural situations going on at the time, he really could have been interchangeable with anyone within the Republican cultural sphere in the same stuff would have happened or he could have been replaced by someone from the Democrat cultural sphere and most of it would have happened.
Like a recurring villain (or anti-hero, depending on your perspective)
Another thing Nixon did that people don't know is he did more for native americans than probably any other presideny. He basically created the system of self governance for native americans that we have today, letting tribes govern themselves and giving tens of millions of acres of traditional territory to various tribes. He called it "self determination without termination" and he made a real effort to improve infrastructure and standard of living on reserves as well, even doubling healthcare spending
people like to forget the fact that nixon was new deal era republcan ironically the last new deal style politican
And it all went crashing down. Native American reservations are more like rural slums. Just the Facts, a fellow Ohioan to Cody covered this on why the NA community is poor: ruclips.net/video/kAdqa8ojbS8/видео.html&ab_channel=JustTheFacts
He also cracked down on AIM, so it’s a mixed bag really
You know, Richard Nixon actually committed an act of treason during the Vietnam War. While Nixon was running for President in 1968, President Lyndon Johnson wanted to begin new peace talks between the North & South to try to end the war within the next year or 2 (& some believe that this could have worked had Vice President Hubert Humphrey won in 1968). However, Nixon secretly contacted the leaders of both sides in Vietnam & basically told them to not make any deal with Johnson & wait until after the election, because if Nixon won he promised to provide both with a better deal which (unknown to the public at the time) was his "secret plan" as he called it. According to the U.S. Constitution, Treason (which is the ONLY crime fully defined within the document) is providing aid or comfort to an enemy that we are fighting during a time of war. Even when President Johnson called Nixon to confront him on this, Johnson knew Nixon was obviously lying when Nixon said that he wasn't preventing Johnson's new peace talks from happening, but Johnson couldn't do anything about it. So yeah, Richard Nixon committed an actual act of treason but the public didn't know about this potentially damaging piece of evidence that could hurt him as President & the United States when they had voted for him in 1968, & it's thanks to this action by Nixon that the Vietnam War lasted an additional 5 years & costs thousands more American lives.
@@warlordofbritannia
What is AIM?
I think another Nixon reform you missed was his attitudes towards Native Americans and the shift in tone he lead with starting to accept their culture and way of life
Nixon wasn't a good president but it does bug me how people ignore the good he did. People tend to forget that despite his madman stint he was actually less of a Warhawk than LBJ or JFK who entangled us in Vietnam, nearly started WW3 a few times, and were generally pretty confrontational. Nixon was more diplomatic and him getting China to sidle up to the US and away from the USSR broke the back of the Soviet empire and drove a huge wedge into the communist world, dividing them even more
@@arthas640 don't forget he enacted Biden's increases to social security
@@arthas640 But his opening ties with the PRC is a big part of why a lot of products are Made in China today. If that never happened then it probably would have eventually happened but by today less products would be Made in China.
@@stigrabbid589 True but that was mainly due to things that happened in the 90s and 2000s, decades after Nixon. It was also due to the steady deindustrialization of the US which started under Carter and accelerated under Clinton. Investment in China didnt really pick up until the USSR started to collapse and the PRC saw the writing on the wall and started to reform economically and court as much trade and investment from the west that they could. During the Nixon administration the US was still a major industrial power (although it would have decline regardless of his action, Carter just caused it to be more of a collapse than a slow reduction).
Nixon's actions were widely praised outside of hardline nationalists in the west and east, and it drove a wedge in the existing gap between the USSR and the marxist-leninist-stalinist world and the PRC and the Maoist world. It also opened up diplomatic ties which were, on their own, a good thing even if stabbing Taiwan in the back was a bad thing, although keeping the ROC as a permanent UN Security Council member made little sense outside of keeping a western soon to be democratic ally on the council. Nixons actions also helped stop the Maoist policy of sending aid to US enemies during proxy battles (seriously look at some of the Cold Wars battles on Wikipedia and you'll see _tons_ of conflicts that have the PRC listed as "supported by" under the list of the US's enemies).
Overall it did screw things up long term but there was zero way for anyone to predict that and the things that did screw the world over long term were actions taken by future politicians and businesses. I'm not a fan of Nixon's by any metric but with the knowledge everyone had at the time and when you look at his actions it was a smart move. I've read that some western politicians actually liked the idea of splitting the Chinese and Soviet powers apart well before Nixon but nobody knew how. Hindsight is always 20/20 but overall it was a pretty smart political move and helped hasten the end of the Cold War by swinging things in favor of the US and depriving the USSR of their single largest ally and single largest trading partner at the time, a role that later had to be filled by India who only viewed it as an economic partnership rather than political.
@@stigrabbid589 The opening up with China was a realist and geopolitical strategy by Nixon to balance the Soviets in Asia. In fact the US only began to have formal ties with China in the late 70s. The increased economic engagement with China only really started in the 80s and began to move quite rapidly at hypergobalized level in the 90s
It'd be interesting to see him talk about a world if Ted Kennedy won against Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan in the 1980 Election.
Ooh, I'd watch that. As someone who lived through the '80s (as a kid) and is both fascinated by and cringing at that decade at the same time, that might be fascinating. :)
Or if Chappaquidick had never happened.
Would probably still lose since the momentum was against the Democrats and Chappaquiddick damaged his reputation. Perhaps Ted could win in 1980 if Ford won in 1976 and the Republicans are blamed for the crises Carter inherited.
@@robinchesterfield42 lucky you:(
@@ryancoulter4797YES, PLEASE!!!
Something I'm surprised Cody didn't really touch on was Nixon's War on Drugs. Would Bobby Kennedy institute the war, and if so, would he conduct it in a similar manner as Nixon? I imagine the people and communities affected by the war on drugs would look very different today.
Given how unpopular that would have been with a large block of his voters, I doubt it. I don't think a rich, white, liberal like Bobby Kennedy would have been able to solve racial issues, but I doubt he would have taken the same steps to dramatically make things worse.
Well he kind of did talk on it, the point being that if Nixon wasn't around to start it then Reagan sure would have and we would be in the same position we are today.
Nixon did the war on drugs to undercut the minority vote (which shockingly doesn’t tend to go for old conservatives) so I can’t see RFK doing the same
@@np8139
President RFK also means no Nixonian crack-down on the Civil Rights Movement, no COINTELPRO, the Black Panther Party and American Indian Movement are less radicalized….
Reagan would have started it
The reason that I like your videos is that your scenarios are always somewhat realistic, as I like to know what would *actually* have happened and not some crazy alternative scenario that has not an ounce of realism involved
That's why these are so cool! I like that it starts from actual facts and continues to incorporate them into the scenario as it goes along--makes it a sci-fi "what if?" that's also educational. Love it. :)
To be real, if Reagan was president one term sooner, he would have had all the mess that Carter had to deal with, which would pretty much cement him as 1 term president and likely keep Bush Sr out of the position.
I'd say *that* is a net positive because we *might* end up handling Iraq & Afghanistan differently during the 80s.
Tbf Carter sorta made it worse for himself
I think Reagan still does a solid enough job due to Reaganomics and the Cultural Revolution to be 2 terms but he wouldn’t be considered one of the best presidents in US history, as George HW Bush gets to oversee the Late 80’s (and Bush Sr still wins if Reagan is 2 terms, if not… then we essentially get similar modem effects to the Al Gore presidency alternate scenario without 9/11)
@@sawyertuide7636 The thing most people don't get is that Reagan rode the success of the inevitable economic rebound that was going to happen after the oil crisis was resolved.
Take that away and no 2nd term. On a plus note, take away Nixon's War on Drugs and Reagan can't massively privatize the prisons, or have as much political leverage to erode the 2nd Amendment like he did(both in his presidency and beyond)
Carter was a complete loser who didn't demonstrate that he even liked America. He was arrogant, incapable, and Biden is fallowing his playbook with the energy crippling of America, allowing inflation to follow. In short, Carter will burn in hell in my estimation.
@@ericwilliams626 Interesting interpretation. Was that from first hand experience because you were around then and directly followed what he did or from second-hand sources?
@@InfernosReaper I was old enough to know not to vote for the dink.
What I like about your videos is that even though they're "alternate history" I feel like I learn lots about actual history in our own timeline. Sometimes contrasting fact and fiction is the best way to teach people things.
I feel like he really does do a lot of research and exposition in his videos. It can make them real informative even for the average history buff
With alternate history you have to have enough of an idea of the impact of certain events to take a guess at how they could've been different. That said, his latest video says that alternate history is ultimately just a genre of fiction and has about as much educational value as sci-fi.
@@henryambrose8607 It IS a type of sci-fi. Always has been. And it's a bad-ass one! Alternate history is "what if?" scenarios, aka speculative fiction, aka one of the older/more general names for sci-fi.* The main difference is that instead of speculating about different science, you speculate about different human-level events (politics, historical events, etc.)
*I'm also rather fond of the old-fashioned phrase "scientific romances". Aww.
Not to mention the two can easily and often do intertwine, like, a different science thing causes a different history thing. What if Vesuvius never erupted? What if the dinosaurs didn't die out? What if we were all still living on a Pangaea? I think all of those were covered by this very channel. (AtlasPro is a good example of this; he'll start by talking about a culture in a country and end up going into stuff like the Coriolis Effect and tilt of the Earth itself...)
That's not to say that either of them can't still have educational value, if their scenarios are started from researched, known points, the beginning settings are clearly explained to the audience, and WHY Y instead of X would make a different Z happen is explained too. "Here's the physics of why this would change Earth" and "Here's the background about this culture about why this would have changed history" are both legit educational, if done right. :)
(In terms of RUclips channels I happen to watch, I'd say it's Isaac Arthur for the science part, AlternateHistoryHub for the people-level part, and AtlasPro in between doing some of both.)
TL;DR: Alt-history IS a genre of (science) fiction...but that doesn't have to mean it's dumb. :)
I really want a what if scenario on what if Watergate succeeded, with everything going the best way possible for Nixon. I wander what would happen to the future of America then.
Yes.
Yes.
The plumbers were sloppy, they'd get caught doing something shady eventually. That HH was willing blackmail Nixon shows Nixon was playing with fire with the plumbers.
Basically Watchmen minus the Watchmen, lol.
@@MikoyanGurevichMiG21 so just
Reminds me of the Harold Wilson. A man with good ideas and policies who came to power in the wrong era and had to pay the price for it, ultimately leading an ultra conservative leader who would dismantle almost everything he had achieved
Depressing as shit how often this cycle repeats.
You mean Reagan?You leftists just won't shut up about him won't you?
@@Tutel9528They want freedom, but with barcodes
@@Tutel9528 No, he’s talking about Margaret Thatcher I believe. Wilson was a few years before her as the PM of the UK. And why are you so annoyed😂? It’s undoubtedly true Reagan had very significant impacts on where the US is today, and the obsessiveness goes both ways I’ve seen kids wearing “Reagan Bush ‘84” shirts which is honestly so weird, who’d buy that for a kid😂
LOLZ, For a moment my mind went to Woodrow Wilson there
and all I could think was "What the hell have you been smoking?" 🤣
The Nixon/Lorax joke never stops being funny to me.
As a fellow Ohio native I've always found it funny the sense of pride we have over the Cuyahoga burning
Bro is from Ohio 💀
@@danielmessi1092 Yeah I know, I'm tempted to say Toledo
Are you a Browns fan?
@@danielmessi1092 cut the man some slack, they had to escape Garmelahog the Indestructible to get to work today
Ohio is simply thriving on Chaos and we just say "Yknow, fuck it, we ball"
“I have mastered the art using many words to say nothing at all”
-Bismarck
Classic Bismarck.
"trust is a flower. if you trample it, it wont come back easily." also bismarck
saw that on a card with flowers lmao
This topic of RFK not dying and becoming president is a great memory of my Dad. We talked for a couple hours about the what ifs.
“Those were in the black and white times, we don’t count those” is arguably one of the funniest lines in this video
Hey I'm happy I'm not the only one that chuckled at that :D
"Bombing the s#%t out of Cambodia" got me personally.
Also accurate when it comes to the public, tbh
It's hilarious, because it is true. People DO tend to paint history in positive colors (that's just how we are instinctively programmed, after all). So it is literally written into our DNA to always view our personal/national history as "the good old days." Spoiler Alert: HISTORY WAS NOT THE GOOD OLD DAYS!! lol
@@jacob4920 Lol the only people who say the good old days were better are racist white southerners but I see your point
I've heard he made decisions negatively impacting the space shuttle, canceling molten salt reactor thorium research, and pushing industrialized cheap food products. Maybe some of those decisions would be different related to not being on as much a war footing.
He also kind of sucked with Cuba. Rather than direct communication or open diplomacy he carried out some backdoor communications with the USSR embassy and the poor communication by the Kennedy administration as a whole nearly caused WW3 for rather stupid reasons and with zero gain for American interests.
The Molten Salt Reactor Experimental programme was cancelled because sodium cooled fast reactor program was further along with EBR 2 and cutbacks fell on MSRE program was cancelled.
@@michaelfasher I mean I like the fast reactor too if less. I only care about power not weapons. Sodium is trouble. I think there's a nice lead cooled design. How have fast reactors worked out?
Ronald Reagan, even in Alternate History:
*“I am… inevitable.”*
I love whenever Cody goes "you see Jimmy"
I mean Jimmy did suggest the idea to him
Here’s an idea: what if a historical figure, for better or for worse, was immortal? It can be anyone of your choosing.
Impossible, but interesting to think about
Imagine if Stalin was still in charge in Russia?
@@jeremywvarietyofviewpoints3104 christ
Santa Claus 🤶😍
@@DeltaFRFX bro said "impossible" as if we weren't aware
I truly appreciate your videos because even being alternative history you actually show a lot if not everything like it actually happened, why it happened like it happened.
Had RFK survived assassination, there's little consensus on whether he would've actually won the nomination, even after his California victory. A number of journalists, historians, and politicians still believe Humphrey would've won the nomination. It's quite likely Bobby's best chance to be president would've been in '76. And, then he would fall victim to Reagan in '80.
The person who probably would've most benefitted from an RFK administration was Ted. It's likely he would've been involved in the administration, and enough small things would've changed that he wouldn't have been in a position to drown Mary Jo Kopechne in 1969.
That probably means a President Ted in the ‘90s in place of Clinton
That seems like a lateral move
There is a lot of historians that say that but I don't think we can say that for sure. You do remember what went down in Chicago right? If Kennedy had just won most of the primaries that were actually held, you would damn sure he would come into the convention ready to snag delegates. And if violence broke out the way it did, you can also bet that Kennedy would pin that all on Humphrey.
Yeah...this was back when only like a dozen states held primaries. Humphrey didn't participate in the pirmaries, because he didn't need to. I find it more likely that Humphrey still wins the nomination, but asks Bobby to be VP in a unity ticket.
Are you absolutely sure that Ted would've benefitted from Bobby surviving? It's just as likely that Dems would not have protected him after he got Mary Jo killed if Bobby was still around.
I'm just saying he probably wouldn't have been in that situation on that night if he was serving in his brother's administration.
Bobby Kennedy remains one of the best what if presidents.
He represented a youthful and hopeful outlook.
But above all he was a powerful orator. After MLK was shot and killed he gave a speech in Indianapolis despite opposition from the Police and his staff over security. Not only did he give a powerful speech, it is credited for having calmed the city and it was the only major US City not to Riot in the wake of MLKs assassination.
Clearly though he needed to become President in the right time and at that time it was difficult.
What they don't tell you is that the worst race riot in American history broke out after MLK died. So much for peace, love and dope. Time to burn the world down.
We've seen from more recent history (i.e. 2008-2016), though, that powerful orators who represent youthful and hopeful outlooks are often, at best, big fat nothings, and at worst, overtly detrimental when they get what they want. Those "youthful outlooks" are often grounded in profound ignorance, unearned self-righteousness, and elitism.
@@antaine1916 Thats the state of practically all modern politics.
But you cannot take a few and apply it to all, especially from the now to the past.
JFK and RFK are seen as those beacons of hope combined with decently capabilities to back them up. RFK heavily played a role in JFKs Presidency and as the Attorney General. It's hard to say how good he would have been as it depends like stated in the video when he took office but he could have easily become a torch bearer of similar ideals if slightly more left tinged of JFK. Perhaps he didn't alienate Humphrey and served as a VP by helping secure his victory.
That is the Great What If. But in many respects he could have easily been a fairly good president or been a medicore one. It simply remains a unkown.
I do believe personally he would have been a great president but will not deny he may have not it all is a unkown.
@@antaine1916 Bro nobody cares about your Obama opinions stop injecting them for no reason
I wasn't even alive but I feel if the cursed Kennedy family never faced the two assassinations, we would've seen two brothers be president b2b and America (maybe the world?) would've been a different place
Fun Fact: Seran Seran was actually convicted by a Platoon Leader from the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment during WWII. Lynn "Buck" Compton
I have two alternate presidents I think you should eventually explore: Henry Clay (in 1845) and Henry Wallace. As for your Reagan remake, have it be kind of the inverse of this where Reagan doesn't survive being shot and is effectively William Henry Harrison'd
Henry Wallace. One of the biggest missed opportunities in American history.
20:13 never thought I would hear those words, "Congrats Sirhan Sirhan you played yourself", because we got Jimmy Carter for the Camp David Accords. That was well played.
Very well played
So What I'm hearing is Bobby Kennedy would be Obama, very charismatic and lot of change promised but do to bad circumstances could probably only do healthcare reform. And also in this scenario Reagan has less dementia
Less dementia?
@@BrianGriffinW Reagan was diagnosed with dementia a few years after leaving office. Dementia is a very slow-progressing disease, so brain changes usually happen before dementia considerably impacts one's life.
It may not have been a big change, but particularly late-presidency Reagan could've been a tad bit sharper and wittier than he was in our timeline
@@BrianGriffinW Yep, because he’d be younger. Also, the Iran-Contra Affair wouldn’t occur since an earlier Reagan presidency would be able to stop the Sandinista Revolution from overthrowing Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza and Iran would probably not have become the theocratic state it is today. Reagan would also lack the excuse of dementia in case of being involved in potential shady affairs.
@@BrianGriffinW I'm pretty sure when older people become presidents it slowers there Brain
@@thedarkassassin0116 The public at least had no knowledge of his dementia.
There is an old Vulcan proverb; only Nixon could go to China.
If he hadn't have been President, we would never put the word 'gate' on the end of phrases, lol.
Seeing the little characters vibrate with rage is incredibly funny to me. I love it
I think the lack of the Water Gate would've been more impactful in reducing the distrust of the people with the government. Water Gate felt like it was adding gas to that already burning fire and without it while distrust would've still been there it wouldn't have been as prevalent of vicious as the one of our time line.
I have always thought that Nixon destroyed the presidency with Watergate. It's almost impossible for a president to provide leadership nowadays.
Hate to be that person, but did you mean disenchantment, ie, being jaded and cynical, instead of disenfranchisement, ie losing the right to vote (I mean, in a weird way that too, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms).
@@banananotebook3331 going more for fancy way of saying distrust. I made the corrections
This right here!!!!!! Watergate and then the Pardon of Nixon by Ford really began the downward spiral of our trust in politics.
This right here!!!!!! Watergate and then the Pardon of Nixon by Ford really began the downward spiral of our trust in politics.
This is put together and edited so incredible well dude. Well done
I tend to go off on tangents. Anyhoo, awesome video as usual lol always impressed at how much knowledge and research much have to go into each and every one of these videos.
*DEANDEMOCRACY*
Monument mythos awesome
What are we waiting for? Let's bring them back home.
“I’m impressed.”
DEANDISASTER
@@plpong893 the d-day knight
"Gate" as a suffix for scandals has been used so but so many times that in future I wouldn't be surprised if someone comes up with the idea that "Watergate" was a scandal related to water.
Love your videos, they're so informative and a really nice and well-thoughtout alternative to our current history. Thank you so much for your hard work and great videos
It might be interesting to do a couple of other videos linked to this one, a) what might have happened if the Watergate scandal never occurred and b) what might have happened if Reagan had been elected one term earlier.
Nixon effectively proposed ObamaCare -- but Teddy Kennedy was the one that help spike it. Before he died, Teddy reportedly regretted attacking Nixon's plan by saying: “That was the best deal we were going to get. Nothing since has ever come close.”
Can I get some sources?
But Cody, without Nixon and Kissenger, there would be no Sheev Palps and Vader. Don't you know where the finger lightning came from?
6:55 not just "a bunch of civil rights bills" but the civil rights act of 1964
Number one candidate for videos that need sequels
This is a certified James Dean Moment
Haha yeah
What car crash death? Or only 3 movies? I do not understand. 😕
This is a reference to Monument mythos, an alternate history horror series on RUclips. In this series James Dean beats Nixon by a landslide and everyone loves him
Well... Mostly everybody
@@Cedavis6 I think more of the fact about charming people dying young
You should do a "what if james corden was funny?"
I don’t think he’s creative enough for that, it’s way too outlandish
Despite what you say about Kennedy being a "neoliberal," the context of the time is important here.Basically, prior to 1968 US support for Israel was pretty much a very emphatically left-wing position most popular with young people, in the exact same way that US _opposition_ to Israel is now, and that’s a major reason why Sirhan Sirhan defied contemporary political narratives.
At the time, Israel had been at war with Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and Iraq- the occupation and Palestinian insurgency was only a year old when Kennedy was shot. Furthermore, Israel at that time had only ever had a left-wing government, relations between Israel and the US had been consistently pretty bad up until the point they found themselves at war with the USSR, and a lot of those minority groups and their leaders- like MLK- actually identified their struggle with that of Israel against its Arab neighbors.
Andrew Jackson survived a duel in 1802. Maybe you could do a video on if he didn't (and therefore was never president)?
He doesn't survive but runs anyway as a zombie
I’ve been waiting for this for the longest time please do if FDR finished his fourth term.
I think a more interesting scenerio would be what if FDR still died but his VP remained Henry Wallace and not Harry Truman.
Unless you could prevent FDR from being a chain-smoker, he would never finish his 4th term. Even if he didn't die in April 1945, his health was so bad that likely would've resigned, as he told his close friends he'd probably resign when WWII ended. What would be far more interesting is if FDR dies before Harry Truman is nominated as his VP and Henry Wallace becomes president from 1944 (or 3) on.
@@Spongebrain97, say what now?
He probably would've just croaked not even a quarter of the way through it
@@occam7382 Henry Wallace was one of FDR’s Vice Presidents, but was dropped in favor for Truman as Wallace was too left leaning for the Dixiecrats.
By all accounts Wallace was a progressive and favored peace with Soviets and pursuing progressive policies such as desegregation and national health insurance policy. A pretty based timeline if it happened.
This is a certified Monument Mythos classic
*Major inaccuracy in this video: The US troops did not flee from Vietnam in 1973 - They fled from Vietnam in 1975.*
- Nixon achieved a Peace Treaty in 1973; Nixon resigned form the Presidency in 1974; The Peace Treat unraveled in 1975 (North Vietnamese invaded South Vietnam), and thereafter US troops fled from Vietnam.
Surprised that such a major historical error was made here.
Hey Cody, you should do a video about the Federal Republic of Central America (A Union that encompassed most Central American nations), and what if it didn't fall apart in the early 1800s!
This is a really interesting (and somewhat fatalistic) take on US History, one which Nixon likely would have agreed with (especially when it comes to US-China relations). Glad you pointed out that the early ‘60s were really coasting from the success in the late ‘50s and the ‘70s were a product of the disillusionment in the ‘60s. It’s interesting how regardless of what happened, people will pin their frustrations onto their leaders as symbolic representations of their economic hardships/strengths. I agree that the RFK Presidency timeline would have made the image of RFK similar to our timeline’s Nixon.
However, I’d love to see a video that delves into: What If Nixon became President in 1960 instead of JFK? I brought this up to Mr. Beat earlier this year, but I'd love to see your thoughts on that What If scenario!
He is also clearly showing is anti-intervention bias here. Even though he would lampshade that if RFK was president people would blame him for losing the war in general which would have a lot more implications down the road as the democrats would become the “Party of defeatism” during the Cold War. Personally if Cody existed in the 20th century he would probably lament about the Korean War being pointless and have a editorial about how the Persian gulf war will result in thousands of deaths for not a worthy cause.
I also wish he did talk about a Humphrey Presidency and who basically a 2nd Johnson term would play out. Perhaps Reagan wins in 1972, oversees the malaise of the decade and Conservatism as we know it gets killed in the cradle.
@@Marylandbrony Humphrey didn't have a chance of winning. He was a weak candidate. Without Nixon, he would've lost in 1968 to Nelson Rockefeller or something.
Its far, far easier to point a finger onto a person than the natural tides of Civilisation and Society, you can Fight a person not a literal force of Nature.
Yeah like for example, there's an early "Mad Men" episode where our company characters are kinda backing Nixon, and then they see how badly he does in the 1960 debate and are all kinda facepalming...That scenario, acted out in something like "Mad Men", would be pretty cool to watch.
What if John Tyler didn’t declare himself President after William Henry Harrison died?
What if Harrison *didn't* die?
@@rtpoe I doubt much would have changed if Harrison was president for longer. However, if John Tyler didn’t set the precedent that the VP immediately becomes president after potus’ death, so much of American history would be different
@@jimmyz2684 "What if Andrew Johnson didn't become president?"
@@Kylora2112 segregation would prolly still happen, but in a lesser form and it would stopped by like the 40s
As fun and interesting alternative history is, we must remember that events in history don't happen in a vacuum
Your best video yet. Nice work!
Yeah, but he got Robert Kennedy being a neo liberal wrong
Now there's a question: What changes would having a Reagan presidency in the 70s rather than the 80s bring?
it would be more cultural opposition though 60s era counter culture was dying out in the 70s would reagen presidency ultumate killed it
@@raptorfromthe6ix833 Valid point, but would a worse economy cool the enthusiasm for conservative policies in the coming years?
@@Groovebot3k it depends if the economy started booming rightafter an alterante reagen leaves office him and conservative could claim success on that basis but in the public eye he would be seen as a failure thus lowering the chance of a conservertave takeover of the republican party but you cant forget what also played a role reagen 81 victory was his ties towards religous figures socalis issues were a big deal and during the 70s right after roe v wade it could still place him in a powerful position in politics
@@raptorfromthe6ix833 I doubt Regan would have the same Deification (Or eventual Vilification) he has in OTL.
Because a 1976 Regan Revolution would likely be smaller and more gradual.
Also I do doubt Regan would do the War on Drugs, because that was started to attack two of Nixons Opponents
"The Anti-war Left and Black People". Without the War and Without the Civil Rights being the same hot button issue as in the late 60s, The Regan Administration probably wouldn't have those same "Opponents" in 1976.
@@rimfire8217 you are correct about reagen revolution being gradual but i do think war on drugs would happen as it was bipartisan
Watergate was not just localized to DC. It might have kinda started out that way in the summer of 1972, but it continued to blow up, not for its own sake, but because of what actually happened before, during, and after the break-in. It caused the first ever Presidential resignation. Barry Goldwater and other Republican Senators went to the White House in the days before Nixon resigned and told him that he needed to resign, that’s not just a localized DC thing. Your perspective on Watergate is way off, sorry to say. That isn’t to say I don’t appreciate Al your content. Just a very specific comment to this topic.
The coverup tends to be even more criminal than the event itself-look at Clinton and Trump’s impeachments; perjury, perjury for days
Man Cody's narrative ability has really been going down hill recently. I wonder if he's tired or something.
That still mostly sounds like DC drama that didn't impact the average American in their home. If the scandal was more widespread like finding dirt on Democrats in your local town, them you have an argument. But breaking into the DNC's headquarters in D.C. felt more like finding dirt on Democrats in Congress than anywhere else.
@@hydrogendiamond5830 yeah, but the result wasn’t because of the break-in or the planning of said break-in, it was mostly a result of the shit Nixon and his administration did after the fact.
@@svenrio8521 meh, he has always made missteps here and there
Bro this is a massive coincidence, literally 2 weeks ago I learned about RFK and wanted to find an alt history were he survived but i couldn't find any. This video is really well timed.
Then Alcatraz Entity would replace my brain with its own flesh
As a Bobby Kennedy fan, this was a sobering video to watch. It’s sad but necessary to have the myths you’ve developed be called into question. That’s the whole point of a proper knowledge of history I suppose.
Atleast bobby could’ve gottten something done
I don’t agree with the assessment. I think Bobby would have cooled down the 69 riots. Not eliminate them, but he would have brought calm.
The only assessment I agree with is that he would have been blamed for Vietnam.
Bobby could’ve done a lot more than this gives him credit for, and he definitely wouldn’t be remembered like Carter or Ford.
Imagine being a fan of a goyim lackey, enjoying gender studies much? Ready to own nothing and be happy?
@@DJMetzler337 He is credited with having prevented rioting in Gary armed with only a speech.
I always have to point out that as much as people like to say the Kennedys would have solved Vietnam especially, a reminder the Kennedy administration and Bobby Kennedy specifically are responsible for a lot of the problems from Vietnam. they dramatically increased the number of advisors, oversaw Ap Bac, helped propose the Strategic Hamlet initiative, and okayed the overthrow of Diem.
Not to mention all the advisors working for Kennedy stayed with LBJ. This video doesn't seem to know much about Vietnam or how it came ro an end. Nixon may have escalated the bombings but he did so while removing troops. He also successfully pressured the Chinese and Soviets to bring N Vietnam to the table which they did. Nixon lied to everyone but he did about as well as anyone could have hoped regarding Vietnam. He was also out of office when Saigon fell so you can't even blame him for that.
@@phenom568Nixon also shuttered the peace talks LBJ was conducting with Vietnam though too.
@Easy E Network this is true, though I doubt those talks would have gone anywhere. Slimeball move by Nixon either way.
And people never admit mistakes or see they were wrong. Nixon actively worked to divide the country, paving the way for Bush and Trump. Hard to see how RFK wouldn't have been an improvement. He wouldn't have kept us in Vietnam in order to get re-elected, like Nixon did.
@bobnolin9155 he literally campaigned on staying out of foreign entanglements then vastly ballooned the number of troops in country. In 1960 there were 900 troops in Vietnam. When Kennedy died there were 16,000
I wonder what this would do to Nixon's "Southern Strategy"
Good video Cody. BTW, here is a suggestion for your next video on president, "What if William Taft won the 1912 election"?
Your observations about how bad things were in the US during the 70s got me thinking. What if the 1973 Oil Crisis never happened?
It was almost inevitable. US will always back with Isreal
Probably High speed rail and other transit projects wouldn’t be far fetched of a network or would taken in a longer timeline like probably the Gulf war. Like France developed the TGV prototype further on caused by the oil crisis to cut down on vehicle use by getting more people into electric trains. Japanese cars wouldn’t be the top car brands in North America due to them being more fuel efficient than NA counterparts which really helped during the crisis.
“Pushed through policy that went into effect. Remember when presidents did that? Me neither!” Oooof.
Its quite appealing how american ignores role South Vietnam in that war. So Cody, as for Vietman, maybe instead of making OTL mistakes, the Bobby Kennedy administration could make South Vietnam Army proper founded and trained force. Despite shortcomings of South Vietnam and american treatment of their allies it have some reliable units.
Dr. Manhattan would’ve had less to do.
I really enjoyed this video! It truly shows your maturity as a historian/student of history.
I don't know if you read "Then Everything Changed" by Jeff Greenfield but his book focuses on three sperate timelines one where JFK dues before becoming president elect because of a bomber who backed down IRL, then RFK winning 68, and finally Ford beating Carter in 76 and Gary Hart becoming president in 80. His focus is less on the effects and more the how of the scenario. Not a perfect book, but if you're interested on how RFK could beat Humphrey in the primaries and then Nixon I think that would be the place to look.
The 6 day war was the year before the 1968 election, so that is another reason Sirhan Sirhan was so anti-Kennedy. But the fact Kennedy did not have even better security was mind boggling considering how his brother died.
I bet that Nixon is the most Anti-Kennedy. Because I think Nixon hired Lee Harvey Oswald and sent him to kill JFK!
19:00 highs of the '50s and highs of the '60s joke. subtle. love it.
My mother has repeatedly told me stories about Bobby Kennedy, how when they announced his death her entire high school fell into a somber like the future had died with him.
I'm going to get so much flack for what I'm about to say, but that is actually so fucking cringe wtf?
My parents grew up when the cultural revolution was in full swing in China. They grew up surrounded by pro-Maoist propaganda. And even then when Mao died, the common people, especially their fellow students, didn't have that insane of a reaction. The person on the radio cried, they got a couple days off, and that was that.
I hope for the sake of Americans that this story is fake, because if it isn't then it'd be the epitome of degenerate western celebrity worship. So what if some slightly charismatic politician dies? They're not the second coming of Jesus.
The systems a politician represents is a lot more important than the actual person itself. From what I've seen, Americans seem genuine too dumb to realize this, and peg everything to individuals. In my opinion, this is why the American public oscillates between extreme political pessimism and apathy, to extreme politician celebrity worship that makes North Korea seem mild.
You may think I'm being exaggerative with the latter, but if OP's story is true, and literally the entire school fell into a depression because some random shitty politician died, that's brainwashing on a scale that'd embarrass Goebbels.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the fundamental Protestant millennialist mindset. Because it seems to me that the American public is desperate to have a Christ-like figure to save them. Such a person has not, does not, and will not exist. But populists can pretend to be that person to sway the idiotic public.
My parents cried, that's how I knew it was a big deal
@Ammonite Studios Jack Kennedy was a rapist and a chronic drug addict. In full honesty, being assassinated is probably the best thing that happened to his legacy. The CRA was only passed with his legacy and without such a mediocre administration, he's remembered more for his campaign and message than anything he actually did.
@@FullMetalZergling it’s really not cringe to get upset when some one gets murdered. Especially when that person would have a massive influence on the country in the midst of an incredibly chaotic year for world history. Civil rights movement and Vietnam war at full blast a lot hung in the air that year and in the American system we are forced to put a lot of hope in individuals.
@@FullMetalZergling what’s does Maoist China have to do what Robert Nixon? I could literally retort about how just a century ago China was beholden to imperial forces that raped robbed and pillage so the fact u even have a China run by Chinese should be sufficient so quit your bitching …..see how that sounds stupid so stop using your experiences to discredit gripes ppl had cuz u had it worse
Ever since I saw your What if JFK was never assassinated video, I always wanted to see you do one on Bobby and I’m so glad you finally got to make it.
Definitely very fascinating, intriguing, and eye opening. Thanks Cody 👍👍
Took him long enough.
I take issue with RFK not doing a lot if elected president. He made a serious dent in the American mafia as attorney general and a shorter Vietnam would've probably done a lot to keep America from the malaise it did in the 1970s
Sadly, my earliest childhood memories are of watching Vietnam news clips and Nixon on our little black and white TV. Interesting video.
I like how in all these alternate politics Reagan is always inevitable
He’s really the Thanos of the late 20th century
If Nixon won in 1960, Reagan likely wouldn’t have entered politics, let alone become president.
@@abrahamlincoln937 If Nixon won 1960 we'd probably all be dead cause I don't see Nixon handling the Cuban Missile Crisis like JKF
@@Nintendoman1998
If Nixon won in 1960, there would be NO Cuban Missile Crisis
The Cuban Missile Crisis was a result of Kennedy being a complete incompetent at foreign policy, especially when compared to someone like Nixon, a foreign policy expert when dealing with the USSR and China (he was not good at foreign policy other than that with his expansion of the Vietnam War, aiding a genocide in Bangladesh, Cambodian bombings, and other stuff I am probably forgetting)
As I was saying, because of his terrible response at the Vienna Summit, botched bay of pigs invasion, weak response against the Berlin Wall, and failure to remove the Jupiter missiles beforehand, Khrushchev felt comfortable with putting the missiles in Cuba. A 2006 scholarly report indicates as such. To give Kennedy any credit for his handling of it is a bit wack considering it was he who caused it.
@@Nintendoman1998 I think that the Bay of Pigs invasion would have succeeded if Nixon had been elected president in 1960, which would have prevented the Cuban Missile Crisis.
The idea of Bobby Kennedy becoming president got me thinking what the line of succession of POTUS would look like:
Bobby Kennedy (1968-1976)
Reagan (1976-1984)
HW Bush (1984-1992)
Clinton (1992-2000)
Not sure how the 21st century would look like for president. Maybe Gore beats Bush, & that could cause Romney being president afterward or it could go down the same path as our timeline. Who knows & I don’t feel like doing research for it.
The thing is that Reagan’s running mate in 76 would have likely have been Pennsylvanian Senator Richard Schweiker.
@@alex30425 I guess replace Bush with Schweiker in the line up if he was the running mate.
@@raymond-reviews Well perhaps Bush challenges him for the primary and wins? Who knows how it would have played out.
I don't think Reagan would of won a 2nd term because his economic plan never would of been put into effect because he most likely wouldn't of rise to power by surviving an assassin's bullet.
There’s be a lot of two term presidents, it seems.
Love how well you show these without a political bias. Thank you.
ok but what if James Dean won?
The universe would’ve imploded because of the gigantic George Washington under the US, but without deaf people
Racing cars on the weekends with Richard nixon obviously
Do you think you could do the inverse of this scenario i.e. What if Nixon beat JFK in 1960?
He'd botch The Cuban Missile Crisis, causing World War III. And instead of J.F.K., Mayor McCheese would have been assassinated.
There’s a theory that I heard about years ago and can’t remember where to credit properly. It’s kind of that escalating domino meme. The first block is “Frank Sinatra is never born” and the last block is “total nuclear annihilation of Earth”. The intermediary blocks are “Sinatra can’t campaign for JFK”, “Nixon wins presidency in 1960”, “McNamara & RFK aren’t there to resolve Cuban Missile Crisis” (alternatively “bunch of hawks push for aggressive action”), “NUCLEAR WAR!!”
Idk, as China showed, Nixon wasn’t as much of a hawk as he let on.
Nuclear war probably
@@lamemechose7072 Yeah,that happens in a one episode in Family Guy when Brian and Stewie travelling in the multiuniversal machine reach a universe when Sinatra never born,No JFK presidency and nuclear war in 1962...
Overall really good video but I do have a few nitpicks. While looking at history it can be easy to assign too much importance to any one individual I think it's just as important not to do the same with broader political trends. Actors still have their own agency and agendas and people in powerful positions can act upon them broader trends be dammed. LBJ is a great example of this. His campaigning for and signing the Civil Rights Act into law caused the schism in the Democratic part that led to the platform shift. It was a huge political risk and Johnson did it anyway. Support for ending the war was broadly popular and yet he defied public sentiment to keep it going regardless.
I'd argue that LBJ was just giving in to pressure he couldn't stop. There was already heavy desegregation, mass protests, and riots. WW2 saw around half a dozen George Floyd level protests/race riots that were suppressed in the media due to the war and there were more later. Vietnam and the draft basically made the Civil rights act unavoidable, especially since there were already a global movement for racial equality and the US was falling behind in that regard. LBJ quietly opposed it at first, the FBI constantly tried to spy on and sabotage the civil rights movement. Even without gim it would have happened and likely fairly soon
@@arthas640Political changes desired by peaceful protesters and violent rioters are the most likely to end civil unrest. It worked for the Irish Republican Army and of course giving the many black and even white people what they want ended the protests. The North saw it as the best moral and everyone else saw it as the only solution. The US would have changed with or without the president.
Kind of curious, given the other side events tied into this,
what would history have been like if Thomas Lawrence was never sent to arabia.
15:48 This means that Beast Boy would be blaming Bobby instead after he turned into a leprechaun.
I think the most interesting factor would be that he wouldn't have met with Mao considering the Republican opposition to the PRC...
Mr. Mitchell the certified expert on all things World War III
I have been waiting so long for this :
ruclips.net/video/mCfYi7634rU/видео.html
I wonder how this would affect the world socialist movement. Hoxha would still split with Mao since that happened for a myriad of reasons, but Mao meeting with Nixon was a major blow to a lot of Maoist organizations across the world IIRC. I figure we may see a stronger Maoist camp, which could lead to no Deng in China - which is a net positive for everybody except the billionaires.
Nixon visiting China supposedly broken Chiang Kai-shek's heart, destroyed the dream of the Republic of China ever retaking the mainland.
@@piyo744, not sure how great a Deng-less Red China would actually be - is that a scenario where China has more democratic reforms and maybe even peacefully unifies with the ROC to form a democratic Chinese republic? Or is that a scenario where Red China remains a hardline Maoist dictatorship, and shuts down any idea of reforms? Because those are two very different scenarios that would lead China down very different paths.
I think your observations are pretty spot on, especially the point that Reagan would have become president earlier.
The idea that Reagan was inevitable is a truly depressing notion.
Interesting video, but what I'm missing is that you didn't go into there not being a war on drugs without a Nixon presidency. What would the ramifications of that be?
Imagine a guy named McGovern of all things losing that hard.
Governor McGovern
Great video! Now, do a video about “What if JFK was never president (or, what if Nixon won in 1960)?”. I think I had read that the reason Watergate even happened was because Nixon was so paranoid about being “cheated” out of another election.
I thought the same thing..and how would Nixon had handled Vietnam from the beginning? Interesting 🤔
JFK was happy to be friends with the mob during such a close race in a few particular States.
well he was cheated out of one election
@@6412mars I don't know Nixons general war strategy, but if it was the same aggression it likely would have succeeded. Part of Vietnam going so poorly was the drip method of escalation the US did so the vietcong always had time to adapt. I also disagree that the military lost at all. We shouldnt have been there and overspent amercian lives etc but we were winning. The vietcong were in a disastrous state in victory as the US simply lost public backing. That being said a victory in whatever fashion is probably undone 5 or so years down the road by a china backed second civil war.
In the end I don't think much changes except a bit more pride for the downbeat 70s, as the soldiers coming home would still be in a rough shape and spread that through culture
@@CosmicFreedoms According to Nixon's autobiography had he been President 1961 to 1965 he would have copied the strategy that the British used to defeat the communist insurgency in Malaysia in the period 1948 to 1960. This would have meant no large scale mobilisation of US troops in South Vietnam. We have no way of knowing whether or not this would have been successful in Vietnam but there would not have been the fierce public opposition that Johnson's strategy resulted in.
We’d have to think of a suffix other than “gate” for every scandal.
I’ve got a question. I have scoured the internet and because of how similar your channels are is Tyler and Cody 2 separate people or are they the same people. This has been driving me crazy for the better part of 4 years.
They're 2 different people lol. They're brothers. But Tyler doesn't do content anymore. And they used to make content together. I used to know more about how they started and how it all went down but I forgot. I think Cody did a video about it somewhere tho. Go back to the super old videos on this channel and the other one you might find more info.
Y'know its so common this feels like a video that should have came out 6 years ago
And then alternate history Cody would be imagining if Bobby got removed from the picture (say he got shot, something crazy like that) and spitballing a Watergate-less Nixon administratino.
"The people need to know if their president is a crook. I am not a crook" -Richard Nixon, shortly before being impeached
Nixon was never impeached.
because he resigned first@@christophermanley3602
The true irony is that he's most often remembered as a crook.
@AlternateHistoryHub, I would love a video on what will happen to Russia after the war. Most of the videos on your channel was set in the past, so it will be nice to see a video that sets place in the future.
It would be James Dean instead
What if Henry Kissinger never existed?
world war three. that is what happens. sorry, but he was the evil that was needed at the time.
His son is running now!
The thing with alternate histories is that you can pretty much do anything you want, whether it could actually have happened or not. The big problem with your premise in this is your assumption that Kennedy was on the way to the nomination when he was assassinated. In reality, while he had just won the California primary, giving him a chance, he was stiil behind in the delegate count to Humphrey. It would have been a difficult convention but Humphrey was still most likely to win.
Richard Nixon really was one of the presidents of all time
I do not like the guy too much. He cut the Apollo program. I WANT MOON EXPLORATION!
When Nixon said "It's Nixin time" The entire Vietnam felt chills
@@dannypipewrench533 Apollo was a wasteful, closed-ended program. By Apollo 17, it was also dangerously over-extended.
He also negotiated with Vietnam to prevent a surrender to Johnson and cause a surrender to Nixon presidency.
@@JoshWood311 "Keep the war going until we're in power and you'll get a better deal." Nixon the anti-communist SHEEEESH