Pastor Reacts to Greg Laurie 01 | "Can a Christian lose their salvation?"
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- Опубликовано: 14 сен 2023
- Greg Laurie attempts to answer the question "Can a Christian lose their salvation?" Pastor Jesse looks at his doctrinal statement alongside the video for today's Pastor React. !!! We do not wish to degrade the man, but we only desire to point out the flaw in his teachings !!!
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I was one of those people who was questioning whether or not I may have lost my salvation. Thanks to your teaching and messages I now know that I have eternal life! Thank you and God Bless you!
Now I know who Trent is. I enjoy your channel; I am an advocate of eternal security and when this was revealed to me 3 years ago after 27 years of bad doctrine , it was like spring cleaning in my soul, and brought me peace and joy like I had never experienced. I believe this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed because satan hates the message of grace , the true gospel . God bless this ministry
me too,,amen.
Hi! (Trent here).
Thanks for the nice words!
@@BibleLine I enjoy Jesse's insights and glad I found this channel. Can you guys think about doing a video on how we know to apply in scripture to us today? Example; John 14
@@kimwestwood8840 Hey Kim, 😄😄😃😃, My pastor sent me this video!
@@VincentDavito Hey man how are you? I actually like Greg but don't agree with all his doctrine. Whats strange is he came out of the early Calvary Chapel and I was a music director for a Calvary in Lafayette, La. Our pastor believed in eternal security , he sadly passed a few years ago. Hope you are well my friend.
Out of the hundreds and hundreds of sermons and teachings ive watched, this is the most blunt, clear cut and to the point teaching ive seen. Bravo good sir, bravo. 😊
Thank you so much! We try to be clear according to the scripture.
- Trent
Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
Good message Jesse. Glad to see people are starting to watch your channel. It has been a blessing to me😎
Excellent, as always!!!
Thank you so much, Bibleline!!!
I read the gospel in a book.The Holy Spirit opened my eyes to Jesus paying for my sin debt.I accepted the message in my heart and mind.
That's neat. Let 1 John 5:10-13 be of encouragement to you! We know we have eternal life by the shed blood of Christ who paid our sin debt in doing so.
- Trent
Thank you for preaching a clear gospel message.
In 52 years I've seen the gospel dragged through mud repeatedly.
Sounds like Greg Laurie frontloads and backloads works to his gospel message.
Yeah pretty much!
- Trent
Love your message Jesse. Keep going. I have a perpetual question for all the ‘persevere’ crowd, or the P in tulip. What constitutes perseverance? They must have a very low view of the law to think their flawed and spotty good works can be compared to Christs work on our behalf. This is heresy, they are deceived, and it’s all driven by Pride.
I attended harvest church in riverside CA. From 2010 to 2020. I struggled with my salvation because I was never taught the true security of the believer. As I watched you as you listened to Greg I saw similar
reactions in you to him. Greg will teach security one day and conditional security
the next. Since I left harvest my salvation
security has grown thanks to people like
you.
Praise the Lord you have understood the truth. Thanks for supporting us!
- Trent
Yeah I used to like Greg but seems like alot of these guys especially the mega church believes in a lordship salvation. Salvation taught by grace and faith only is actually rare. Seems like that could be what Jesus meant by the narrow road because MOST Christians believe that their works will get them into heaven.
To be 'born again' means you become a child of God. You can't change that any more than I can stop being my earthly dad's child. A believer can stop acting like God's child, but the relationship can't be revoked. God will stop blessing a misbehaving child, remove certain protections, allow consequences, possibly take them home and withhold rewards at the judgement, but that child is forever a child of the same heavenly father.
Amen, Great Analogy. ❤
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
As children of God there are things that we should do. Just like there's things our human children should do that they don't. We as parents don't disown them although being disobedient. They're still our children. The same rules apply to God and his human children. @Rileyed
@@GS-mh6ub mans duty is to present himself as an empty vessel to God who fills all. If we don’t separate from Satan/world/flesh we will never know God. Just wasting our lives pretending.
Humility = faith = holiness(pure heart)= the nature of Christ
Pride = unbelief = impure/selfish heart = the nature of Satan.
“He who has this hope in him Purifies himself while being yet pure.”
We are called to walk in humility and lowliness of heart to God and all men.
“Without separation from evil no man will see God”
I would cleanse home and mind and Body of all things not of God. Daily. Until can’t find any more. And then stand guard against evil. Leaving no foothold for the devil to enter back in.
Most won’t listen. Choose the fear of God. Choose the grace of God. Choose life daily. Amen.
"possibly take them home" hmmm....but everyone dies regardless
Thank you.
👍 Excellent
Thanks for exposing Greg Laurie and his false doctrine.
Sure thing!! Thank you Jackie.
- Trent
Awesome message brother Jesse! Clearly you are rightly dividing the word of God. Anyone who listens to Greg Laurie is going to be placed under condemnation and fear, and not be effective in giving the gospel and winning souls for Christ! This is clearly what the enemy wants. If the enemy can get you to believe in just ONE work, before you get saved, he can cancel out your salvation. My wife and I are considering attending the Florida Bible college in Tampa. We love your teaching and the teaching of Dr. Ralph Yankee Arnold.. God bless you brother keep up the good work🙏🙏🙏
Thank you so much!!!
- Trent
anytime you see stadiums full of people claiming to be saved, you can bet that's the wide gate... certainly not the straight and narrow gate that leads to salvation
Sadly, you’re most likely right. I pray this may change! Even if we just reach one soul at a time, it’s worth it!
- Trent
So what if when we see this kind of scene in the New Testament then?
its about what scripture says... not what you think you see in the new testament... the fact remains, "its a narrow gate, and few there be that find it"... Greg preaches a false gospel of works, and people flood in to that gate
@@jnw729
Would you prefer to see fewer people there?
@@sorenpxPeople in Mega Churches are probably not saved, few will find the true way to salvation, which is Free Grace.
Fire up, Pastor Jesse
But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: He is their strength in the time of trouble.
Psalm 37:39 KJV
In God is my salvation and my glory: The rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God.
Psalm 62:7 KJV
Salvation belongeth unto the LORD: Thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah.
Psalm 3:8 KJV
The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?
Psalm 27:1 KJV
The LORD is my strength and song, And is become my salvation.
Psalm 118:14 KJV
@@getrit3007 we don't do the law because it's the law but because of the spirit
The parable of the soil is a great litmus test for one's doctrinal view as the plain simple reading is 1st soil never saved, all others saved but differ in what type of fruitful or unfruitful lives they have.
Some believe some don't.
Some believers bear fruit , some don't.
Those who bear fruit are rewarded, those who don't aren't and suffer loss of that possibility.
That the bible is clear on....
God bless you guys down south our brethren 🙏🏻
I would concur. The first seeds Jesus mentioned are the unsaved because they allow the devil to block the message. The rest are saved but different levels of profitability.
Still agree...
@@gregorylatta8159 Amen
@@DHT317???
@@Livingingrace Praise Jesus!!!
Doing a good job Pastor
Thank you so much!!
- Trent
Glad to hear that you said rightly dividing the Bible
I like this guy !! Also Andrew Farley. They tell truths
I agree in your words....EXCEPT we cannot and I STRESS CANNOT overvalue the Sovereignty of God.
Love your church and ministry. I can't find a free grace church near me. I live 30 minutes south of Jacksonville FL. Any suggestions on how I might locate one?
Clear ministries can be difficult to find. Unfamiliar with that area, but there could be one around there.
1) You could keep trying different churches, but stand on the Word of God in your pursuit.
2) You could try to start some ministry out of your home or something. I know this is a difficult thing with circumstances, but could God be calling you to this?
3) - alongside the other options, keep watching clear preachers on YT in the meantime
Thank you for supporting us! We are in Tampa. Not too far of you wanted to move 🤣
- Trent
I think this side of the debate is just as dangerous as the Lordship position. Giving assurance to anyone and everyone who said a prayer, recieved Christ etc. Is just as dangerous as telling people to look at thier performance for assurance. I believe both sides of this error on opposite extremes and are best for each believer to figure out in Gods time.
AMEN. Salvation belongeth to the Lord. PSALM 3:8. And all this judgement of our brothers and sisters! Reminds me of how Joseph's brothers threw him in the ditch. These pastors need to study Romans chapter. 14. All this judgement is sickening . And all in front of the unsaved.Gods name is blasphemed among the gentiles because of you. Satan just sits back and laughs. Where there is strife there is pride. Those of us who know the truth should be praying for the lost not making sport of them on you tube to puff ourselves up. Galatians 6:4
@@stephencantrell3105 Glad you get it. They do likely have a lot of false professors who made a decision/said a prayer on their hands. They will be accountable for giving false assurance to many that do not know Christ. I think that's why many should not become pastors/teachers because their judgement will be greater if they don't preach the full counsel of Gods word and speak error. I think they mean well and are doing what they think protects the gospel but they error in the extreme by separating sanctification as a byproduct of saving faith altogether. The reality is, if you pass from death to life, regenerated and indwelt with the Holy Spirit and your relationship with sin, the world and God completely 180, you can't stay the same. They would accuse me of teaching "works salvation." They do believe anyone and everyone who professes faith in Christ is saved and always saved. Even if that person renounces Christ and walks in darkness. I would say those people might of looked good for awhile, played religion and made an intellectual assent at some point about the facts of the gospel but they never surrendered their will to Christ. If I told you I got hit by a semi-truck and I had no scars or evidence of that, you would call me a liar and you wouldn't believe me. God is a lot bigger than a semi-truck ;)
You either believe and are saved or you’re not. You can have assurance. But only those who believe have assurance.
@@cschovajsa I agree but clearly according to scripture there are many who think they believe and don't know Christ. Saving faith has elements of intellectual, emotion and will and can't go into unbelief.
@@johntrevett2944 Jesus will say to many, "Depart from me, I never knew you." These are those who did signs and wonders, cast out demons, in his name! Yet he will tell them all to depart. Clearly, not everyone who professes faith is saved. Jesus says we will know them by their fruit. Yet, the extreme free grace side says that's works based salvation. I believe there's a middle ground that exists, and we are to live in this tension of both sides having truth.
I tell calvinists many times that God gave them a free will. That God is sovereign and if they don't like it, they need to take it up with God. But God in His sovereignty gave us free will. It was God's decision to give us a free will.
How are you defining free will? All Reformed confessions affirm free will, this is a strawman.
@@edrash1Reformed calvinists deny free will. They, as White does, talk about creaturely will, that people only do what God has predestined and decreed to come about, literally all sins and good things. That is not libertarian, biblical free will but gnostic idea of free will
Free will that was corrupt and dysfunctional. Remember this?
_As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God_ . - Romans 3:10-11
Here’s how it works:
_All that _*_the Father_*_ giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out_ . - John 6:37
This, and numerous other Scripture shows us that is entirely up to the Father only.
@zaharishtonov Unfortunately, people don't teach in a correct hermaneutic. On ANY SUBJECT, we NEED TO read EVERY SINGLE Bible verse on that said subject before even ***attempting to teach let alone form a belief.
And in this instance, these verses are casually glossed over and not included with those that have an opposing view. Just like a human parent can't undo having a physical child, God doesn't undo having a child of the spirit.
I used to believe salvation could be lost when I was first saved. When I didn't understand how to properly study. And I liked the idea of people losing their salvation bc of a sin of self righteousnessness.
Romans 6 20
For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness
Were is the 'free will' in this scripture?
Excellent job pastor. Keep exposing the many charlatans posing as believers.
Amen a person is saved simply by resting on the finished work of Christ no turning from sins or any other method just trust what Christ has already paid for it is finished TETELESTAI!!
Yes!!
Amen. Good video. Gregg Laurie is a disciple of chuck Smith calvary chapel. This is the fruit of Chuck Smiths teaching. It is lordship or discipleship salvation and needs to be renounced. Great job
I went to a Calvary Chapel in Lafayette La and the pastor did not teach this false gospel ...He taught the right gospel and eternal security
@kimwestwood8840 well maybe they do but what I've noticed with calvary chapel is how sneaky and subtle they can be. They will deny being calvanist but then preach a calvanist message. Also they will say they believe in eternal security but then say you need to abide in Christ to have eternal security. They also add confession and calling on the name of the Lord to be saved. Be careful and check closely to what any preacher says and check it with scripture righty dividing.
@@robcrobert George Lewellyn was pastor at my church where I served as worship leader. That was over 13 years ago and I didn't know anything about Calvinism then but I had many conversations with George outside of church and don't recall anything about works backloaded into the doctrine. But since then my understanding has deepened and the doctrine of salvation is especially important to me because of what I went through . I suffered from depression , anxiety because of misunderstanding of scripture ( thanks to the Pentecostal church) but reading Jeremiah 33:3 changed my life forever. I am very familiar with Calvinism now, and hear the gospel being perverted everywhere , I no longer go to church.
@kimwestwood8840 I understand and have familiar experience. If you can find a good church I would go . Bur I know that's harder these days. We need each other for spiritual support 🙏
I don't agree with all points of Calvinism, but OSAS is the gospel, it is the good news. I dont like when people say OSAS is a license to sin because that is not the case. The Lord will Change the person more and more as time goes on. But even if a Christian remains a carnal christian he is still saved .
Been studying Calvinism for awhile. Have also researched Greg Laurie. He is good friends with Jack Hibbs who credits Laurie with leading him to the Lord.
Jack is pastors at Calvary Chapel Chino Hills. He did a question/ answer recently in which a woman was worried her daughter wasn’t saved. She told him that her daughter at one time accepted Christ and wanted to now because her daughter was not living right, how to be assured she was saved. Jack responded with the proverbial works prove salvation and it was a train wreck answer.
It seems many Calvary Chapels backload works based on their statements of faith band some of the teachings I’ve watched.
One other thing is , I’d like if possible your take on Laurie’s close friendship with Alice Cooper. He wrote a book called , Lennon , Dylan, Alice, and Jesus : The Spiritual Biography of Rock and Roll.
Alice Cooper may be saved and just living as he always did , idk. But he still does rock concerts with demonic like outfits, makeup, environments along side various rock bands.
Laurie’s ties to Cooper are curious since Laurie defines repentance as turning from sin and leans Calvinistic in his own teachings.
Anyway, all these people need prayer that they come to understand the true gospel of grace and those that follow them as well.
I'm a bit confused, as your statement seems to be a bit contradictory. On one hand, you condemn Pastor Hibbs for his "Works prove salvation" answer, implying that the daughter is still saved despite showing no signs of it, yet you doubt Alice Coopers salvation, because he shows no signs of it. So which is it? How can Pastor Hibbs be wrong, when he's saying the same thing about the daughter as you said about Alice?
Actor Joel Courtney played the role of a young Greg Laurie in 'Jesus Revolution' 2023 ( Kelsey Grammar as Late Chuck Smith ) Use to listen to Greg Laurie for years and most of his teaching seemed sound but when issues of Salvation were presented, there was still 'too much' confusion for my discernment. Unfortunately, most of the 'best' of preachers fail in their discernment and 'rightly dividing' the scripture.
GOD bless you brother I appreciate your teaching and the clarity you bring with them. Pastor would you be able to explain Philippians 2 verses 12 through 18. Specifically verse 12 what is Pauls message right there to work out your salvation with fear and trembling? Again pastor thank you very much for your time GOD BLESS u.
Context and slow Bible study help us to understand this verse. The next few verses point out the fact that God is working in us through the Spirit (convicting and trying to use us) to shine as lights. We aren't supposed to be believers that do nothing.
Notice he says "work out your salvation," not "work for your salvation," or "figure out your salvation." That would be foolish considering Paul also wrote Philippians 3:9. "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness..."
To work out your salvation is to let it shine to others. Share it, tell of it, spread the good news. Live a life called to discipleship. This passage is talking to the already saved person about how to live as a better already saved person. Most of the NT talks to already saved people about how to live.
- Trent
@@BibleLine Thank you much 🙏
Great video, brother. Please continue standing fast for the true gospel of the grace of God. King James is the words of God! There’s a great pastor called Curt Crist. He’s one of the best pastors that teaches the reconciliation of God 2Cor 5:18-21.
Thank God HE chose to save me. None seek after God. The apostle
Paul knew all about THAT
hi pastor, i enjoy your channel, and am not sure if this is something you might review, but i wanted to know if you have ever seen the video of the boy who had a dream about judgement day? i was just curious about your opinion, if you have seen it?
Haven’t seen it, but I’ll look it up! If you want, you can find a link and send it to me.
- Trent
ruclips.net/video/hiohUGBjcn4/видео.htmlsi=VVYAWAAlueCANbIx
I would also like to see that. Please send link :)....
Can you make a topic about the Word of God?
WE WILL DIE ON THE HILL OF FREE BIBLICAL GRACE THE LORD JESUS CHRIST PAID IT ALL
God is ABSOLUTELY sovereign. Very important truth. To deny God's absolute sovereignty is heresy 😢. I don't care about calvin. Let God be true and every man a liar
Getting out of the Will of God after you Believed will cause you to lose potential Spiritual growth, but you do not lose your salvation.
That time between when your out of his Will; until that time you get back to doing his will; the person will realize the salvation experience lost during that time wasted. It is not understood until the sorrowful heart comfirnes the experience of ones cross they must take up.
From Greg Laurie's website: Sometimes people will make a profession of faith, and then seemingly fall away. We ask ourselves, “Did this person lose their salvation?” My question, in turn, would be, “Were they ever really saved to begin with?”
If somebody commits their life to Christ-and then walks away and never comes back, I suggest to you that they were never a Christian at all. If, on the other hand, someone commits their life to the Lord, walks away, and then comes back to Christ, I suggest to you that were simply a prodigal. The true test is where they end up. A true believer will always come home to the Lord, eventually. A person who is not a true believer won’t.
I can't disagree with that statement.
Grab any pastor from the pool of Pentecostalism and they believe and teach the same....I lived under that heresy for over 30 years. Praise God he revealed himself to me outside of that burdensome cult.
Hi Jesse, Thank you for your ministry, I recently read Matthew 10: 34-39 and tried researching comments on these verses and found not one comment by any of the main popular preachers offering their thoughts on you tube (good ones or bad ones) this seemed to be interesting?? Could you please commented on these verses, I feel maybe this could be used by Lordship Salvation preachers?? Good bless
Good question. The key to this truly is context. The chapter begins by Jesus specifically talking to his disciples. Recall, he talked to his disciples (followers of Jesus - the 12 particularly) about their discipleship (their following/service to Him).
These comments quite literally don’t make up salvation, but they make up how a disciple should live.
He tells them where to go, who to go to, what to bring, what to say, how to act and what’s going to happen to them. This is specifically also why the “endure unto the end” statement is also not referring to an eternal salvation. If the disciple endure and keep on, God will protect them - amidst the trial and difficulty.
Therefore 34-39 contain more discipleship statements. The disciple is to put Christ first (love everything else LESS), and he is to follow after Christ by all means.
- Trent
@@BibleLine Thanks Jesse for your quick response, your explanation and teaching of this text is understood, I continue to learn from your ministry God bless!
Will you please do a video on Romans 9? It seems to be very clear there that God chose the elect before time. I reread it and am struggling to see.
Jesse is doing a series through Romans in our live section right now. We just finished Romans 4, and I would actually encourage you to view those for context’s sake. He’s intentionally doing this to lead into Romans 9-11 with accuracy.
- Trent
I'd like to hear that as well. What I've settled on for now is that it's not saying that's what God does but that it's in his power to do. But this is a chapter i still have trouble with since coming from Calvinism. So I really want to know how non Calvinists understand it.
Any pastors on youtube you would recommend. Ive been looking recently. I listened to some of Northland bible baptist church and He seemed good( so far) and then i saw he did an interview with you. But other than that every pastor ive listened to for any amount of time ended up saying concerning things.
Here’s a few good channels:
- Dr. Ralph Yankee Arnold
- Northland, as you mentioned
- Northside Church Athens (John Hembree)
- Quentin Road Baptist Church (Jim Scudder - not aligned with typical baptist teaching)
- Freddie Coile - Evangelist, was a pastor
- Onorato Diamonte - RUclips clear teacher
- InGrace - more RUclips side of Jim Scudder
- C4CApologetics - forgot his church name atm - Daniel Weierbach
- The Kees Boer Ministry Channel - RUclips teacher
- We also have our live section full of various teachers aside from Jesse
- Trent
@@BibleLine Thanks :)
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Yes. Good scripture.
- Trent
@@BibleLinelol that comment could refer to Free Grace adherents also
Can we "agree to disagree" on this topic? Can both groups of professing Christians be genuine believers even if they differ on their Soteriology?
From some things I heard about Greg Laurie's testimony, it seems he got the Free Grace Gospel from his friend Lonnie Frisbee as a young man, but later fell into the error of Lordship Salvation due to the influence of Chuck Smith and Billy Graham. I'm thinking of writing Greg to plead with him to repent. Should I attempt this, or should I leave him be?
Tell him....
Why should he repent? After all repentance is NOT a requirement to maintain or gain salvation. Laurie does not need to repent for anything. That is what Free Grace teaches anyways
They go about to establish their own righteousness because they don't understand the righteousness of God!!!
Romans 9:30-32
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;
but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.
Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.
1 Timothy 1:5
Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,
Mattthew 5:17-20
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
“For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
“Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
“For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
They were not seeking the Law of righteousness by faith. We are to keep the commandments outwardly and inwardly which the Pharisees and many others have not done.
Jesus said if you love me, keep my Commandments. Can anyone who does not do so say that they love Him?
1 John 2:3-6
Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
So, explain Romans 9 please. What about Ephesians 1:4, John 17:24, 1 Peter 1:20, 2 Timothy 1:9-10
29For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. THE TRUTH
Right... God, with his foreknowledge, can see those that believe of their own FREE WILL ... those are who he predestines
This is part of the statement we elders in a community church with heavy Wesleyan Arminian affiliation allowed the pastor to write. I for one didn’t think it was well written and seems to be to me works salvation.”
“That true faith in Christ expresses itself in loving God supremely, trusting Him completely, and obeying His commands unconditionally. Anything less is not true faith.”
Any thoughts? Maybe I’m looking at it wrong.
Very much works salvation. Faith is not works, nor is it qualified as having works. Faith is not defined as working or having works. Faith is faith and works is works. “True faith” is not used in the Bible. “Faith” is. One believes (puts faith in) Jesus Christ for the payment of their sin, and they are saved. Full stop. 1 John 5:10-13
- Trent
That sentence is asking for perfection in an imperfect human. Even the prophets of old did not measure up to that.
I do believe the Lord saves more people then we think. Even though some believe that one must have works after being saved to show that they are saved. I do think most who say this are probably saved to and just confused on certian passages in the bible that are very hard to understand i think. But we can not cancel out the ETERNAL passages because of some difficult passages that seem to do that.. The book of james almost did not make it into the bible because of the very reason that some believed it would be used to preach a works based gospel which is not a gospel at all
I don't think Calvinist have a overemphasized view of sovereignty, I think they have a diminished view of God's sovereignty. Sovereignty is the right to rule as one pleases. Calvinist believe that God's sovereignty is meticulous determination as that is the only way God can accomplish his means. This is why that like to say that "they were never truly saved". There is no way in their belief system that if God causes someone to believe that they could be carnal or fall away. When you twist scripture and God's nature, it will logically cause you to twist all of these things so that they fit the system.
Yes. Well stated. Calvinism does the damage on both ends. They want the cake, and they want to eat it too!
- Trent
GL, appears to have been fed a bushel of TULIPS. That said, both David Pawson & Michael Heiser taught the word "Believe" is continuous/on going as used in scripture. They never said "Performance/Works" saves, just Belief in Jesus saves. However, they would raise the question, "If you no longer believe Jesus Saves...what saves you?"
Jesus
Who is Gregg Laurie? I never heard of him or his associates.
Popular mega church preacher. Harvest Church pastor. Basically Calvinist as Jesse pointed out.
- Trent
good...
The Bible clearly says that it's not the flesh that has anything to do with being saved.
God MUST in mercy saves
What do you think about Hyper grace.
Holy spirit never convect Sin in the believer life but always convict we are Righteous
God never see Believer sinful behaviour and always see perfect.
Spiritual principles ( seek God, pray , live Holy life) are concetered legalism. Don't make them bondage..
There is no effort need for spiritual growth. Abiding in Jesus produce growth.
Can you clarify me ?
Pastor..
I think what brother Charlie Bing covers here will help answer your question as it relates to our Sanctification/Growth in the Lord. Growth definitely invloves work and yielding on our part to avoid fulfilling the lust of our flesh.
ruclips.net/video/7rLVC-Th0Po/видео.htmlsi=FOM_2eq8M8AYji3r
Hyper Grace is heretical. God does still convict the believer of sin in his life. We are positionally in Christ (we have His righteousness and a new spirit nature), but we can live un sanctified sinful lifestyles. Gal. 5:16-23 shows this difference. Fleshly living and Spirit living.
- Trent
If you are asking if Grace over our sin is hyper grace, the answer is yes. Grace abounds.
Yet, are we to wallow in sin and live a purposely sinful life because that fact is true? God forbid. That is totally opposite of our reasonsable service Paul would later say in Romans 12.
The holy Spirit along with God's written word and guidance from mature believers absolutely convicts and rebukes and corrects us when we sin. When we yield to that correction as Trent said, we see the fruit of the Spirit and when we don't, the works and sinful behavior of the flesh is seen which leads to death and destruction in our lives.
Sin leads to deadness, and great unpleasantness in our lives. As we grow through discipline and discipleship actually exercising and training ourselves we better discern right from wrong.
Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: (huperperisseuō/hyper abound)
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6: 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 12
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
James 1: 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Our goal ought to be mature God loving, God serving and honouring children which comes to be over time and growth as described in the whole of scripture if we do what the Lord guides us to do.
but Free Grace shares the same beliefs as hyper-grace anyways. Those being:
-mental assent about Jesus for salvation
-works after salvation don't prove or disprove anything
- Believers don't necessarily bear fruit
- any attempt to follow God's commands is self-righteousness and therefore damnable
The only discrepancy in beliefs between the main Free Grace circle is between GES (Hodges and Wilkin's camp) and the FGA (Fred Lybrand camp), and that is to the nature of saving faith itself. In the GES camp all a person has to do is to believe there is a person named Jesus that grants eternal life. In the FGA camp a person has to believe that Jesus paid for your sin, he died, was buried and then resurrected.
In theory, the GES version would make Mormons, JWs, and even Catholics SAVED, while the FGA camp wouldn't. GES would say that anything else about Jesus (His deity, burial and resurrection ) can be corrected later during discipleship, but is not essential to saving faith. But the funny thing is that per GES (and all Free Grace theology in general) discipleship is OPTIONAL and NOT guaranteed. So if we look at the core, all JWs, Mormons, SDAs, Catholics are saved as long as they believed at one point in their life that there is a guy named "Jesus" that grants eternal life. Let that sink in.
That video of Greg l is old any new videos maybe he changed his view.
Yeah we know it’s old. The statement of faith was current though. No change there. It lines up. We’ll have more. Thanks!
- Trent
Cool thanks
That’s because everyone keeps mixing law and grace, Paul was given the mystery, he was the first person of the body of Christ, math mark, Luke and John are under the law not grace they are the earthly kingdom folks not the church the body of Christ.
Here’s my question. Can someone feel they are saved and not actually be saved?
Yes, because salvation is not based upon feelings.
The individual can believe in Christ as their Savior, and they may feel nothing at all. No emotions must to be attached for one to be saved. The only thing needing be done is to believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins, was buried and is risen again. Do you believe in Him? You are saved. Period. See 1 John 5:10-13
- Trent
@@BibleLinelol so that also means that someone can feel saved when they are not.
@@BibleLinelol but that means somebody can feel saved when in fact they are not.
I think what is so scary is that there is no way to prove if any of us are saved or not. Only God Knows.
1 John 5:10-13
@@BibleLine Yes!!!
Just believe He can save you and your on your way. Your faith in Him , is your proof. Ask Jesus to help you to believe.
He may just give you a sign. Yes He still does that in real time.
NO is the answer .
That's why I quit listening to Moody radio 😒
So I would like to know, would the prodigal son (from the Bible) have gone to heaven if he had died before coming back home to his father?
Yes
No
2 Chronicles 7:14 "If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land." Turning from your wicked ways; giving it to Jesus; abandoning sin; being contrite for it and stopping doing it when God asks you to; These are all biblical things. You cannot continue to look at pornography and think nothing is wrong with it. If you do, I would examine yourself like the bible says to see if you truly are saved by Jesus.
Why would God pick someone to be saved then give them the task of earning it or working to "stay saved"? He would already know if the person he picked would "endure until the end", would he not?
Fair question.
Yes, He would. He also picked those whom He knew would fall. The Ephesians “left their first love.”
The choosing isn’t about salvation. It’s choosing those who do believe FOR a task/work. Paul was chosen as a vessel to go to the Gentiles, and etc…
- Trent
can u watch and comment on video below?
After having observed how people respond to the Gospel and hearing the first 16 seconds of this video and hearing your "What!!!???" I know already that I agree with Greg!
I'm not a Calvinist. In fact, I'd probably say I lean Anabaptist. But, I'm pretty sure this guy is quoting Matthew 13:20-23. Which does seem to teach that many lose their faith and walk away (see Matthew 24:10, John 6:66, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 2 Peter 2:20-22, etc).
Did I hear Jesse say pastors should ever shift or change? Whoa, that's crazy. It's absolutely impossible that any man knows scripture perfectly. We are all wrong, confused, or uneducated on something. If a person isn't growing in their understanding, there's something profoundly wrong with their Christian walk in discipleship. I assume Jesse does believe the Calvinist pastor should change his views. Jesse is not immune to correction/change.
Greg Laurie says he rejects Calvinism: ruclips.net/video/OOZ8Z_iGeOw/видео.html
Its my understanding calvinism teaches that God chooses who will be saved and the Holy Spirit regenerates them so they can believe the gospel. If you happen to be one who was not chosen did not God choose you for eternal punishment in hell ??. I thank God for my Lord Jesus Christ that faith comes by hearing and by hearing the word of God . Romans 10:17
Yes. Calvinism is so dangerous and heretical! Anyone can believe. “Unto all and upon all them that believe.” - Romans 3:22
- Trent
Amen brother Trent. We believe in the who so ever because Jesus Christ paid the sin debt for all people, for all time, for all sin past, present, and future to all who would believe. Calvinist have a hard time understanding the meaning of the word all. I heard Dr Norman Geisler define the word all when he speaking on Calvinism. Dr Geisler stated all means all and that is all that all means.
But as many as received him, to them gave he the power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. John1:12 @@BibleLine
I don't necessarily disagree with your thoughts, However I don't think you're looking at the whole of scripture. There are flaws with some of Laurie's statements, yes. If you view your relationship with Jesus as a marriage relationship (much like the example of Jesus being the husband of the church) how does that change your view? In the human experience we meet someone, deiced we want a relationship and we then choose to get married. In the same way the "sinner" hears or discovers the saving gospel of Jesus Christ. In time that sinner decides they want to be saved. What are they "saved" from? Eternal damnation for the rejection of Jesus. Back to the human relationship example. You choose to marry this person you've been getting to know. The marriage happens and then what? You continue to live as a single person and do as you please? Do you "turn from" that single, dating lifestyle, or do you (figuratively speaking) give up your self-centered lifestyle (side note, first tenant of Satanism "do as thou wilt")? Do you continue the pursuit of pleasing yourself and your own needs or do you invest in that person and get to know them more intimately? Do you change bad or destructive habits/choices for your partner? If you do won't your life reflect that "fruit" (Gal 5:22-23)? If you don't, how long will that relationship last and then most people would question if their partner really did/does love them and most wonder if that partner really is committed to them (am I saved). So many "fall out of love". How does the breakdown of a relationship happen? It's not because you have a vested interest in that person. It's not because of a changed life/lifestyle. When issues arise in that relationship do you "persevere to the end"? (2 Cor 8:8-12, 2 Tim 4:6-8, Phil 1:6 and 3:12-16. We can also glean wisdom from the examples set out in the Old Testament. Not saying we live under the law but that doesn't mean there aren't examples we can't learn from. 1 Chor 28:20, 2 Chor15:7) Do you "continue to run the race set before you" (1 Cor 9:24-27)? Simply "believing" is a great start but action must follow it. We repent of our sins (sometimes daily) because we recognize we we are in need of a savior and we can't do this life without out His help. The word "SIN" is originally a Hebrew and Greek word meaning "to miss the mark". The people of Jesus' time would have known this. So in that context, to repent of your "sins" is simply acknowledging that you missed it. Have you ever knowingly or unknowingly "missed it" in a relationship? What did you do? Did you ask forgiveness and then do it again? How does that tend to work out? Do you really have confidence and assurance in your marriage or partner simply because you "believe" that one day 3 yrs ago you publicly made a declaration to a group of people? Are you really a husband or wife to your partner? I do personally believe in "once saved always saved". However the life we live and the choices we make in this life will affect the crowns we receive at the Bema seat judgment which is the judgement specifically for those who choose Jesus, (2 Cor 5:10. Rom 14:10, Ps 62:12, Mat 16-27, Eph 6-8). The Great White thrown Judgement of Rev 20:11-15 is very clear it's the judgement of those who denied Jesus and turned their back in Him. They are thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity.
Hey brother Jesse, I would tend to agree with you on all points except that the parable of the sower is not about salvation. If we look at the Luke parallel passage it clears it right up: Luke 8:11-15
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. (THE GOSPEL)
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. (NOT SAVED)
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. (SAVED BUT FALL AWAY - LOSS OF REWARDS)
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. (SAVED BUT WORLDLY - NOT FRUITFUL)
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. (SAVED AND FRUITFUL - PERSEVERE)
I would be grateful to hear your thoughts on my assessment.
God bless
Yes, if it’s referring to salvation, then that is absolutely spot on. The discipleship view does not make mistake as to include loss of salvation or a Calvinist view.
- Trent
@@BibleLineanem, thanks Trent. God bless y'all
I dont think they realize by adding works they water down the gospel. Grace true grace is what makes the gospel special if any of it involves us then it makes no different from islam, buddism, hedonism etc. They all believe in a works based salvation the popular is not grace alone for salvation (contrary to popular belief) thats actually rare teaching nowadays because it goes against human instinct and human wisdom but i think thats why so few peoole find it as Christ said. So few people actually GET IT and thats even including those who probably are actually saved.
I am learning much from you. Been a Christian for 42 years and have a masters in apologetics. You’re right. Many need to be careful in how they preach the gospel. I’m an ardent Calvinist critic as well. But here’s my question.
You know all the verses. Not just the parable of the sower. But many passages that are warnings.
Paul said test or prove yourself that you’re in the faith.
A dog returning to his vomit. Jesus said you’ll know them by their fruit.
Scripture warns of spots and blemishes while they feast with you.
Not of those who draw back as in the provocation - but who believe unto the saving of the soul.
Warnings about those who went out from among us but were not of us. Etc etc. I could keep going and give many passages.
Here my point. All of those passages are in Scripture for a reason.
Don’t you think it DOES need to be clarified what the characteristics of a true believer are? Seems like common sense to me. And if someone attempts to do that- it does not turn them into a preacher of works righteousness. That’s a bit unfair don’t you think?We can’t just make a follower of Christ (who died a brutal death on the cross to save them)- out to be a believer- simply by mentally assenting to Christ and “believing”. Only God know knows the heart of course.
James: You say you believe. You do well. The devils believe and tremble.
So I would make this observation of this issue. It’s all about balance.
We can’t overthink the Bible on one end and turn it into fatalism and God doing all the work and were simply automatons living in a Divine Matrix. But neither can we turn the Christian faith into just believing.
Again isn’t it a fair and honest common sense question to ask what a true believer looks like. Jesus said we’ll know them by their fruit.
There seems to be a confusion on just about everyone’s part in this debate over justification and sanctification.
I still think this quote from Martin Luther is true:
Faith alone saves. But the faith that saves is never alone.
This in no way -in my mind asserts anything about works righteousness. Luther did struggle with James for some time. But this quote to means he reconciled the book perfectly.
I did hear you teach recently on those passages referring to rewards and judgment. Fair enough.
I still believe asking the question: “What does a believer or a Christian look like? How do they live. Scripture says in Roman’s 12:1,2 to not be confirmed to the world.
Our hearts should desire to not follow the lust of the flesh list of the eyes and the pride of life.
Conclusion: one can believe 100% that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone. Not by works in any way. But still as an ambassador and teacher or shepherd - be responsible to explain to the flock - what are the characteristics of a true follower of Christ. If they can’t- and this muddies the gospel - then why is Scripture full of the warnings like I mentioned when I began.
Appreciate your response. Thanks.
"I consider that the chief dangers which confront the coming century will be: Religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, Forgiveness without Repentance, Salvation without Regeneration, Politics without God, and Heaven without Hell." William Booth salvation Army founder 1899. Amen.
I think you summed that up well. God bless
Thanks for the comment.
Here is the line we draw and believe the scriptures draw.
Salvation is free - “unto all and upon all them that believe.” Faith is not qualified as having any works. It is simply faith.
Discipleship is costly. Discipleship and Christian living is a daily grind of choices made by the already saved person (believer). This requires works and making right choices. Discipleship is not salvation. Eph. 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Phil. 3:9, Gal. 2:16.
Faith is not qualified as bearing any form of works. Otherwise it is no longer defined as faith. Faith is simply the “mental ascent” (whatever - idk why people see this as wrong definitionally) of accepting a fact to be true for you. Unbelief would therefore be not mentally accepting said fact to be true. You believe something or you don’t. Notice John 3:18.
A person is saved by believing in Christ’s payment for sin. They accept the fact that he died for their sin. They are believing in Christ. That is a one time moment of belief. This puts God’s righteousness to their account. Romans 4:1-5, 3:22-28, Eph. 2:4-9, John 3:15-18, 5:24.
The saved person is commanded, appealed to, begged, stressed to, bargained with, asked, told, explained why to, etc… SERVE GOD. But this service does not prove, give, or make that believer saved. It just means he isn’t spitting in the face of the one who died for him… James is very clear. Faith alone saves from eternal hell, but faith alone does not save us from Judgment here and the Judgment seat of Christ. Works help us to be blessed here and rewarded there in heaven.
Nevertheless, the justified position of a believer in Christ can never change. John 5:24 is explicitly and undeniably clear. You must needs get over that clear scripture to prove the point about “faith alone that is not alone.”
Thanks.
- Trent
Even satan believes and trembles . James 2:19-24
Matthew 25:24-30
….. so you must DO something more than just believe to be saved?
@@MikeyTJustice belief is an action . Matthew 15:7-9
Matthew 7 :21-23 did those people believe . The cast out demons in Jesus name don’t you have to believe to do that ?
Romans 4:5. Belief is NOT an action/work. Yes Satan and his demons back up their belief with the trembling. They actually work hard. Absolutely. Nevertheless, they’re destiny never changes; they know their end.
I know my end because I’m saved forever. Therefore I should serve the Lord, and I even try very hard to do so. Nevertheless, my service profits me NOTHING in regards to being saved into eternal life. John 3:15-18
- Trent
@@BibleLine belief is an action do you not act on your belief ? Even Islam believes in Jesus Christ Mormons also . There is just a bit more to it than saying you believe .
They do not believe he is the Son of God come to pay for sin… your comment even dissociates action from belief.
- Trent
This all comes down to definitions and interpreting Bible with the Bible. Faith means believing in someone for something. Christians believe in Christ Jesus ALONE for eternal life and salvation. Why? He did the works for us, He fulfilled the law of God, He died for our sins, was buried and rose again bodily for our justificiation. Grace means unmerited favor. Obedience means doing something for something. If you believe the Gospel of Christ Jesus you HAVE obeyed the Gospel. If God wants you to not steal and you obey Him, then you won't steal. Repentance means change of mind about x or y. If I go to a grocery store and repent, I change my mind and I won't go. When Jesus said to repent and believe the Gospel, He was telling people to change their mind about Him and actually believe Jesus is the Messiah, Savior of the world from its sins, the giver of eternal life. This is so simple yet Bible teachers like Laurie and other calvinists mess this up and believers go into legalism and unbelievers go to hell by thinking they can be saved by stopping all sin AND believing in Jesus Christ. It is only faith in Christ Jesus FOR eternal life and remission of sins.
Recently I was having a phone call with a loss of salvation guy I know. I was evangelizing with him but I have noticed he is so messes up with his soteriology. May God open his eyes. He, the guy, said part of the Gospel is good works. And there he went into heresy and I have told him a billion times it is ETERNAL LIFE that cannot be lost. Our faith and works must never be mixed into one. Pentecostals and charismatics are always so close with roman catholics. Yes, there are rare exceptions but they have the same root issue: self-righteousness and pride, thinking them believing in Jesus AND not sinning equals to heaven. That is NOT Jesus alone for salvation and eternal life, that is an accursed gospel and heretical one that leads to hell. That is why I had to stop evangelizing with him.
Keep these up man! You are a rare, biblical voice and a channel on RUclips that actually preaches the truth about essentials of christian faith and of the Bible. Praise God Almighty for your channel!
Don't give up on them , you may not see instant results , but as time goes on that seed you planted should spring up. It took my catholic family years before they came around.....Good work Niko :)
HERE IS AN EXTREMELY SERIOUS QUESTION!!!!??? If indeed (and I believe you) that faith alone in Jesus Christ alone and belief alone IS THE ONLY WAY TO BE SAVED and there is none other gospel or GOOD NEWS. If indeed all other gospel's are CURSED with a DOUBLE CURSE. Galatians 1:6-9 What then say you of us older folk whom in the past may have either in seeking God's favor either ignorantly, carelessly or even arrogantly have participated in and supported assemblies which retain elements of false, unclear, meritorious or Calvinist or Arminian or other elements of other non belief alone gospels? How can we back out of a briar patch or unrolled barbed wire traps laid on a battlefield? What if we feel like the RAM caught in a thicket? Must we repent or undo that evil which we have done? If we then must repent then is not the gospel different for us or perhaps non existent. Is it then OK simply to tell God we have sinned and done evil in His sight? If at the time we supported those Gospels because some famous reformer started great revolutions revivals and awakenings. How does one backpedal out of quicksand a briar patch or a tar pit? The greatest problem is that these fake gospels contained the true gospel which we did believe with front-loaded or back-loaded elements of authentic Bible spirituality so are we saved or lost? Can we count our back loaded elements as works done prior to our faith which in themselves will be judged for their Can we whom came under a double curse break the double curse? If so HOW? if not are we ourselves eternally condemned in some kind of unpardonable sin situation? Are then we ourselves eternally condemned for not fulfilling the gospels we ourselves may have taught others? Does God count the front loaded elements as works done while we were dead in trespasses and sins and does God count the rear loaded elements as works that will be tried at the Bema or rather does God count us as never gotten saved at all even though we believed in the elements of Christ having died for our sins and risen and placed faith in Him though not alone? How then does one who has participated in assemblies in which gospels loaded with unessential elements have been preached or taught NOW FIND OUR ASSURANCE OF SALVATION? What then do we do NOW? And what now that we might be feeling the "tortures of the damned" in our physical body and need more than salvation but need healing in the flesh and mind and body too? Your friend claimed that at the moment he believed he felt like a piano was lifted off his back. What if we who have at one time or another attended and supported assemblies that have had elements of false gospels and now have two pianos on our back with concrete overshoes on out feet and some leg irons and are getting no younger?
Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
The only gospel you need to believe is Jesus reminding you you can perish for not listening things he said to you.
I kinda always thought the seeds that did fall on some ground but didn’t reap a harvest weren’t actually saved to begin with. Besides the seeds the bird (devil) snatched, I saw the other seeds believing the gospel for wrong reasons. They mightve really only saw the gospel for their fleshly needs, whatever that may have been. The rocky ground seed thought life on this side of eternity with the gospel would be sweet but then they fell away due to persecution, for they didn’t know the fact that people might hate them for the gospel. The thorny seed that got distracted by worldly affairs may have also only believed the gospel for some type of fleshly need and perhaps were deceived by thinking the gospel was some type of prosperity gospel (they could be a member of Joel Osteen church). When that need wasnt met, they turned to money and/or fame, and etc.
Basically, the thorny and rocky ground seeds didnt believe the gospel for salvational purposes (and they probably never really saw themselves as guilty sinners to begin with). The seed that did reap a harvest saw the gospel as a need to be right with God. The last seed saw the gospel as means to be forgiven, for they realized they owed a great sin debt God, aka they realized they were guilty before God. They believed in the gospel for the right reasons, for eternal reasons, not for fleshly needs. They knew the gospel would grant them something greater than the things this world could offer. They didn’t see the gospel as means for wealth, prosperity, and a persecution-free life unlike the other seeds. They were content with the fact they received eternal life.
I’m willing to be wrong however
The first seed never believed. The second and third believed, but they fell away. They are still saved because they believed. It cannot be said of a person who actually believed that they never believed because they never worked. They never worked even though they DID believe.
The last seed is one who believed and worked.
- Trent
Greg Laurie is full of it. He quotes scripture then says he thinks it could be said better, then puts his own spin on it. Horrible!
I do think this following verse needs some further clarification for one who believes in once save always saved view.
Revelation 3:5 KJV
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
Place your faith in Jesus? The Bible says believe, why do people confuse free will and sovereignty? You don't have free will to choose to believe , but you do have free will to obey or not obey. Belief just is, it is not a choice, but having believed we either cooperate with or rebel against the Holy Spirit. Just read the Bible and you will see that God's people come in a variety of flavors.
To believe is to have faith in something. Anyone can believe.
- Trent
@@BibleLine Jesus specifically says to the Jews in the book of John if they are unable to hear his words because they are not from him, he says that they are f rom their father the devil, but His sheep hear His voice.
I attended Greg Laurie's church for several years. Greg Laurie is definitely not a Calvinist. He teaches free will and that election comes by God's foreknowledge. Greg Laurie was trained up by Chuck Smith and Billy Graham. Chuck Smith is the founder of Calvery Chapel, and the Jesus Movement, and that is where Greg Laurie came from. Greg Laurie preaches the same (false) gospel as Billy Graham. Greg Laurie is the one that made Rick Warren famous. Greg Laurie's church became the first "Purpose Driven Church" while I was attending it. Chuck Smith, Greg Laurie and Rick Warren changed the face and course of the American church and catapulted the "emergent church" movement. I grew up in Orange County, CA where it all began with Chuck Smith, the Jesus Movement and Calvery Chapel. Harvest Christian Fellowship, where I attended, pastored by Greg Laurie was a Calvery Chapel plant.
First off, the speaker's assumption that Greg Laurie is a Calvinist is incorrect. Laurie has said emphatically that he rejects Calvinism. Personally, I think Greg Laurie very confused about some of his theology, including soteriology.
Free will exists, but a natural man (unregenerate soul) only has free will to do that which is in the character of a natural man. (If this isn't true, then Psalms 14:1-3 is false, because it emphatically states that *no one seeks after God* and that *there are none that do good*.) If it is the case that an unregenerate soul can choose salvation, wouldn't that be a good thing? But it says he can do no good. Also, Romans 3:10-18 expounds on Psalms 14:1-3.
So, an unregenerate man has free will, but it is subject to the limitations of his unregenerate, or natural, state. However, salvation is not a natural work, but a supernatural work. That work is performed by God and by God alone - salvation is monergistic. The Bible never once suggests that it is the will of any human to be saved (to be in relationship with God) before he is moved by the Holy Spirit and the hearing of the gospel message; the Bible ONLY says that it is *BY THE WILL OF GOD* that someone is saved. (John 1:12-13) An unregenerate soul has no free will to choose salvation, because he is DEAD in his sins (Eph 2), and a dead man can do nothing to bring his dead spirit to life. The raising of Lazarus is a picture of salvation. Do you think Lazarus had a choice when Jesus called him from his dead state? No. It says that Jesus spoke, calling him forth, and Lazarus came forth. There was no choice given.
According to the same principle, God has free will, but can do no moral evil, because moral evil is not in the character of God. So, yes, free will exists, but it isn't what most people think it is. R.C. Sproul has put forth some excellent messages on the topic of free will. Find them on RUclips.
Greg Laurie is confused, and not just about the topic of salvation. His eschatology is abysmally wrong and in fact, harmful. He's looking for an Antichrist and rapture that have already occurred in AD66-70.
Two men, two gospels. Two manmade gospels, to be exact. Can man loose his salvation? Well, that depends on the teacher you have chosen for yourself. People, WAKE UP!!
All it takes to be a Christian is to believe in Jesus christ not our good works because we don't do good works to be saved we do good works because we are saved and we don't do good works to make it to heaven I believe we go to heaven when we receive Jesus christ as lord and savior God has given us tools for our spiritual growth
*Calvinists must believe in purgatory and free will* in Matthew 6 JESUS says
Matt.6.12 - Forgive us our debts, *as we also have forgiven our debtors*
vs 14 - For IF YOU FORGIVE MEN WHEN THEY SIN AGAINST YOU, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Matt.6.15 - But *IF YOU DO NOT forgive men their sins your Father *WILL NOT FORGIVE YOUR SINS*
I'm sure you won't argue this command is for non-elects.
How can GOD's forgiveness depend on you deciding to forgive someone or not if you don't have free will, to merit GOD's forgiveness?
You not forgiving a debt as GOD commands makes you a debtor to GOD. GOD will also not forgive you.
If GOD forgiving us also depends on we forgiving others, but we're elects destined for heaven and cannot lose our salvation. Hence if I as an elect don't forgive someone who has offended me, hence GOD will not forgive me also. If GOD doesn't forgive me but I'm an elect, hence he must punish me; Ergo - *Purgatory*
This elect is a debtor hence a sinner in the sight of GOD but will still enter the kingdom of GOD despite GOD not forgiving him. We know a sinner cannot inherit the kingdom of GOD, but as an elect making it impossible for him to lose his salvation and must enter GOD's kingdom, he has to be purged.
Calvinists can delude themselves by saying
"there's no way an elect won't forgive those who offended them"
Then I ask, what's the point of this words JESUS said here then?
Why did he give this commandment if it's meaningless to elects?
Why does an elect have free will to forgive or not to forgive i.e can choose to obey or disobey this commandment, in light of calvinisms doctrine of regeneration?
The three steps are works.dont exclude puritan amishness men of the nite
Jesus said to Nicodemus that one must first be born again to see or enter the kingdom of God (John 3:3-7). Jesus also said he loses NONE of the sheep his father gives him (John 6:39)
For all of the people who know better than Jesus, and say one can lose his/her salvation, who can say how many times one can be born again? In other words, can a man be born again, then lose his salvation, then be born again (again)? If that sounds ridiculous to you, imagine how ridiculous it sounds to me when you suggest that YOU are more powerful than God Almighty, that Jesus can't even do what he said he is empowered to do.
The apostle Paul had no doubt that he was saved, and that's what he taught Christians through his epistles. If it was possible for Paul to lose his salvation, how could he have been certain of having it?
Have you read about when Jesus promised this?
John 10:28
And I *give* unto them *eternal life* ; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
If someone says one can lose his/her salvation, then they call Jesus a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6
John 3:18
King James Version
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
The only sin that will send you to Hell is the sin of UNBELIEF ,so believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ and his blood that washes away all your sins.
1 Corinthians chapter 15 verses 1 through 4 kjv.
I do not agree with Greg Laurie's teachings completely, but it's not for these reasons. You need to understand that the Lord knows who are His why? Because we were with Him in that first earth age, as He said to Jeremiah, I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb. How did he know him before that? Because he like all His set apart ones were with Him since before the foundations Because His Saints are OF Him. Now yes the Lord is mighty to save and He wishes that none would perish. All souls belong to the Lord All. But the problem is people get predestined, confused with saying God is just being picky and doesn't want to save some or most people. That is just not the case. The Lord says in Ezekiel 18:20 the soul who sins shall die, and in verse 23, He says, " Do I have pleasure at all that the wicked should die?". Please read this passage in Ezekiel 18: 19-32. He makes it very clear in speaking of turning from sin and to live in Him.
On another note, the issues with Greg Laurie and most major Christian churches are the embedded, pressing, and almost forced belief of the fly away rapture doctrine. This is the disagreement I have with this pastor as I'm sure many reading follow this doctrine as I once did this is a far more crucial topic in the church for the latter times we're in, this will be a major reason for the great apostasy in the Christian church. Blessings to all in Christ Jesus Amen 🙏. Remember satan comes first then the real messiah and the Lord expects to find His Saints standing faithful even to the end, we may not suffer the Lords wrath, but those remnant may suffer the antichrist persecution and tribulation. Stay bold in the Lord friends Amen 🙏.
You better lay down your life, give up your ways, ask Jesus forgiveness & to lead your life, & become as his servant, following his guidance for your life, doing his will in this world, rather than your own. You better do a little work, making amends for your sins. "Belief" is only the beginning of relationship. Many are led to believe themselves saved just by their "belief" & faith, while never trying at all to follow the shepherd, never being washed clean by him, never changing their path, but instead still playing God over their own life, doing as they see fit. Even the enemy has "belief" in the Christ, but he refuses to lay down his life & follow him.
Numbers 21:7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.
Numbers 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
Numbers 21:9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
@@nicholasisaiah53john316 don't ignore what Numbers 21: 7 reveals. The people recognized that the serpents/death was sent to them because they sinned. Do you really think that after God gifted them a way to be saved, they continued to sin? When Jesus ate with sinners, it was never because he likes people who sin, but because he was coming to them, presenting them a way to be saved, being willing to lead them out of their sins, to wash them clean, to lead them as his servants. They would truly become God's people, just as the Israelites were supposed to be before they made the bad decision of sinning.
@@nhartigan72 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
----------------------------
Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
I dont think Greg Laurie is a Calvinist. He was a disciple of Chuck Smith and mentored by Billy Graham.
All you have to do is read his doctrinal statement and you'll see he is a Calvinist.
@@jackiemarmolejo1945 link?
harvest.org/know-god-article/statement-of-faith/
2 Corinthians 7:10 "For it is godly sorrow that works Repentance leading to Salvation not to be regretted, but the sorrow of the world works death." Luke 24:47 "And that Repentance and Forgiveness of sins will be preached in My name to all Nations beginning at Jerusalem." Luke 18:13 "Lord have mercy on me a sinner" that man went home Justified, says Jesus. Amen, Many will end up 12 inches short of Heaven, the distance between the head and the heart.
You don’t rightly divide the word . 2 Timothy 2 verse 15. And 2 Timothy 3 verse 16 You have become like Galatians 6:3. That’s you . First you fail to look at scripture in the context of its use . ( To whom are they speaking - What is the subject - who’s doing the speaking . Etc… ) 2 Corinthians 7 :10. Paul is addressing. Christian’s ( saved. Corinthians ). They are carnal and practicing wrong things . Paul had to go to the church of Corinth 3 times . In first 1 Corinthians 3 and 5. He calls the saved Christian’s. Carnal and he can not give them spiritual meat because they are conducting themselves as babes . Please find a good Bible teacher . John Ricci of Grace Fellowship or Zane Hodges . Please stop reading the Bible the way you have .
This is such a wicked teaching. The gospel is GOOD NEWS. For God so loved the WORLD He gave His only begotten Son. How is salvation by lottery ticket good news? Oh sorry friend, God didn't choose you so it's impossible to be saved, sorry you're gonna have to burn in hell forever.
Jesus died for ALL the world. He paid for ALL the sins of the world. He didn't just die for religious hypoctites who think they're good enough for heaven. God died for anyone who will believe in Him. For whosoever will believe shall be saved. Some people will believe and won't serve God in this lifetime. They're still saved. Some people will believe and serve God with everything they have. Yet others will be somewhere inbetween.
Right on Trey!
- Trent
You seem like a humble man. I don’t think you mean to but your not accurately representing a Calvinistic view here. Unfortunately your argument bears no weight due to your straw man arguments. Plus, Greg Laurie is far from Calvinistic. theres no 8 steps to justification in the reformed tradition - Faith in Jesus Christ is a saving grace, whereby we receive and rest upon him alone for salvation, as he is offered to us in the gospel.
Thanks for the compliment. Yes, Greg is not really claiming Calvinism, and we understand that. His view (as pointed out in the video) is kind of all over the place. Nonetheless, salvation is free to ALL, not only some special group whom God picks. God shows grace to all people, but people choose to reject His Son. John 3:16-18
- Trent
#Bibleline ... You're so so naive and speak own mind instead of scripture. You said Holy Spirit works on those who yeild and seek for truth....... And you denying that God didn't took the first step for man salvation..... Really????
You're leading people stray...... Be careful..... Don't teach wrong things.....
First, No one seeking God or interested in Him. God himself said this
Romans 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
So how you're saying that Holy Spirit helps yielding people to salvation? Because no one ever seeking God.
And by this statement that God has no sovereignty but when people yeild, Holy Spirit helps and then people come to God.... Are you denying the claim of God that God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son.
Are you calling this scripture a lie
Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Don't pour your own mind.....
The Holy Spirit does move first in that He convicts ALL people of “sin, righteousness, and judgment” - John 16:8-11.
Anyone who believes in Christ as Savior is indwelt with that Spirit - Eph. 1:12-14. It isn’t the other way around.
Jesus even said that one must believe in order to be born again - John 3. The birth doesn’t happen before the belief, and the belief is a free choice anyone can make.
- Trent
All you antinomians say the same thing, scripture is clear regarding works added to salvation the pharisees and saducees painted a wonderful picture for us but that's not what you folks are saying. What your saying is simple, twisted, out of context, and only half the picture. There is a reason folks like this vid only show one side of the coin and it's the "words" there are certain words and theology you despise because of how you remain to live. Anyone that can read Paul's 13 books in context with Hebrew and walk away still lazy, slothful, passive, ignorant, indifferent, easy lifestyle mentality, zero persecution, everything is works, hated what he said literally. Paul was the king of using verbs like strive, run, it's a battle, fight, wrestle, war, perseverance, obedience etc etc. But antinomianism does away with all that conviently because life is meant to be safe and easy breezy and coddled so a few facts is all you need nothing more, I'll share the believe part but then walk away from the rest because I have no desire to have a judge over my life. So then scripture becomes nothing but works added to salvation deeds become works repentance and righteousness become works. Paul's Christian walk daily was hell on earth physically, mentally, physiologically there was nothing easy breezy about it nor did he teach easy believism. Works and law, only 2 words antinomianism can repeat for obvious reasons out of context and with zero discernment or wisdom in either area zero depth just ignore the entire NT except the just believe portion that way nothing interrupts who you really are and who you really want to be. Every crowd Jesus taught claimed to "just believe " heck they say first hand His ministry but when it came to the internal part, the change, the sacrifice, the new creation, off with old they all bailed except 12..why? They new some facts like you folks, so why did they walk away? It was the words, they hated the words and loved the world still...you folks are no different you just leave out the words you hate and cling just a few facts nothing internal. Easy believism is nothing new the OT was full of it!!
I’m glad you say easy-believism is nothing new. Look, I don’t want to fight or throw stones at you. I appreciate your honest comment. When it comes to works, we whole-heartedly believe in a Believer being a living sacrifice (Romans 12:1-2) and everything that comes along with that. The difference in discernment here is that being a living sacrifice is not the facet that saves a person; it is what the already saved person (saved by faith in Christ) should do thereafter. Paul does discern these differences. This is why he draws the comparisons in Romans 3-8. Salvation is free, but service thereafter is costly. AND the believer SHOULD NOT live in sin - sadly it’s possible though. Shame to the believer living in sin.
Thanks.
- Trent
@@BibleLineI agree with what you just said. I just see these days a massive undertaking of lack discernment or wisdom or any resemblance of wisdom or theology in general. I see coddled, compromising, half truth, picking and chosing half alive folks walking around. The separation is vividly apparent these days and maybe the whole covid or current government has pushed us in that direction but nonetheless there seems to be a fast movement towards a spiritually lazy slothful group of folks downgrading the cross and sin. I get the direction where heading scripture is clear and so are current headlines, I family caught up in this my lifestyle is mine but somehow I truly know Christ our Lord and saviour and it's baffling. It's disheartening to see folks compromise God's truth not understanding the real value of their own souls compared to this world's system of sin and obbundant hate towards anything God.
Salvation starts at Obedience to the Faith. For example if someone believes in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus they must also repent of any and all sin that they have knowledge of. The blood cleanses from all sin if you walk in the light. 1 John 1:7. The Bible also says Jesus is the author of eternal salvation unto all those who obey him. Hebrews 5:9 James 2:24 say's we are justified by works and not faith only. Clear and simple.
James is not giving the gospel in his book. It was written to Messianic believers in his day. It is poor hermeneutics to use one verse to support a belief system.
Example John 1: 11 "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him." Do we assume none of the Jews received Him by that one verse?
You are saying Paul contradicts James in regards to salvation. Obedience in our walk with Jesus doesn't save us.. That concept removes Jesus as Savior and is considered replacement theology ...
Believers WILL bear good fruit that remains. John 15
@@kimwestwood8840 The Gospel is Matthew 1:21. Jesus came to save his people from their sins. When Jesus died on the cross he died to save us from the penalty of sin and the sin itself. There is no salvation without repentance. You must be saved from sin because that's what salvation is
@@joshwebb8878 Matthew 1:21 IS a declaration of the purpose of the Messiah . It is not the gospel . When you witness to someone they need to know HOW to be saved.
John 3 is the only chapter devoted to salvation and Jesus clearly tells us how to enter the Kingdom of God. Believe in Him. There are 2 meanings of repent. One is sorrow for something. The other is to change your mind. Repentance unto salvation is we have changed our unbelief to believe. The Greek word is metanoia .
Ephesians 1: 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
@@kimwestwood8840 One more thing Paul taught Repentance unto Salvation. Read 2 Corinthians 7:9 and 10. The Bible is consistent if you read it all and rightly divide it
@@joshwebb8878 Yes he did. In Acts 16 the jailer asked him what must he do to be saved. Paul said believe on the Lord Jesus Christ . True repentance is turning from unbelief to placing faith and trust in Jesus . Salvation and the gospel is simple but so many have muddled and perverted it . I am glad you trust Jesus in His promise of eternal security because in this life where nothing is secure , Jesus is faithful . God bless
Man has free will. God will not force us to be with Him. Either we abide in Him or we do not. All of the promises are in Him.
John 15:5-10
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you willfn ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.
“By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
“As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.
“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God IN HIM are Yes, and IN HIM Amen, to the glory of God through us.
Romans 11:17-22
And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
(John 15:6 KJB If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
They are withered and MEN burn then not God. They lose there testimony. Ad for Romans 11 the context is Gentiles as a whole. It's not talking about individual salvation (Romans 11:25 KJB) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Eternal security defend and proven.
@@robcrobert Verse 25 does not change anything. We individually are branches and any of us can be cut off if we do not continue in His goodness. Romans 11 states that clearly enough as well.
John 15:4-6
“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
Romans 11:17-21
And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
The promises are YES to those who are IN HIM as Corinthians states. Those who do no abide in Him have no inheritance.
Revelation 21:6-8
And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.
“He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
“But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
James 5:19-20
Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
@Andrea-hf8hl do you know what cut off means? It is physical death. It doesn't say lose your salvation.
@@robcrobert Oh there definitely is physical death but it is not only physical.
1 Corinthians 10:1-12
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,
all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
all ate the same spiritual food,
and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.
And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.”
Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell;
nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents;
nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
All of which still ties with Revelation 21 which is there for you to read. It was God's judgment upon those who turned to sin. And it will be for all of those who do not continue in the faith. Or do you not have free will any more now that you have "been saved"? Sin will lead to death of there is no repentance.
@Andrea-hf8hl I hope you realize that not only the sins you cherry picked from the Bible keep a person out of heaven right? The standard is absolute perfection and unless you are perfect like Jesus Christ you cannot enter heaven.