This is going to be the OG of Speedmasters... the venerable 321 movement with even a superior finish... hand assembled by Omega's top watch makers.. it's the first Omega I've paid any attention to in 25+ years.. I bought this instead of a Hulk today. No regrets what so ever.
I like it. It’s a very niche model for absolute enthusiasts so I see this and the standard models continuing alongside each other for the foreseeable future.
You may be right, but the standard model at it's current price doesn't likely long term. I do think at a minimum the new movement and a major price increase is coming.
It seems to me that the niche market being targeted here is the “stealth wealth” brigade, money is not an issue for these people but a smug feeling of exclusivity is...this is not a mainstream watch!
I think you’re about right on most of it. The new 321 moon watch is a top end high spec more compact luxury watch. The new 321 movement is a work of art and must be very labour intensive to produce using the best possible materials. This is where a lot of the price comes from. I’ve heard some You Tube people complain it’s not in a normal speed master case which is a bit odd. That would tarnish the current speed master and the current speed master is not really up to Omega’s new higher standards and much improved quality and movements. I think we might see a whole new speed master soon.
Just today, the guy from my local AD (Jakarta) text me and say that I am lucky to bought the speedmaster pro just last December, because the stock is drying up now. Only 2 watches arrived in the country since last December - usually it was 4 to 5 watches per months. So, so far so true.
I see your point! My thing about the new one is its not really the Moon Watch. Its smaller and has sapphire and see through case back. Its almost like this was created to combat the Daytona more than replace the good ole classic Moonwatch.
Good content Guy. Here is my view that I posted on another channel: Funny: This 321 movement hasn't been made for 50 years. It was at the time, prior to 1970, one of the best, if not THE best chronograph movement of all time. It was so good that Patek used the Lemania version of it for decades. Who else used it? Vacheron! Try to get one of those 2 old watches for $14,000! And now there is a bitch about how high priced this modern 321 version is? And this watch comes with NASA history! As far as I know the 321 movement is the only movement that was on the lunar surface (I can't find anything to refute it). Any other watches walked on the moon? No! And now watch enthusiasts dare say how expensive it is! This watch blows the Rolex Daytona a new ass as far as history goes and you can actually see the gorgeous movement from the back of the case. Remember, Rolex had their chance to make it to the moon. They didn't make it. Omega and the 321 movement did. Who knows, I may have a chance to actually buy this Omega at retail. If I want to get a Daytona ceramic, who's junk do I have to suck to get a used one for $22,000?
The Speedmaster Professional is Omegas's biggest seller. No chance it will be discontinued. The 321 is basically like a precious metal Submariner. Can you ever see Rolex discontinuing the stainless steel Sub? No chance.
But they already have PM Speedmaster models. That said I don’t think it gets discontinued, well not likely anyway, but I’d bet money that the prices will go up. It’s too wide if a gap for models that are too similar.
@Michael Dude www.omegawatches.com/watches/speedmaster/skywalker-x-33/skywalker-x-33/product Thanks for bringing up an old discussion which you clearly lost. I advice you to pick up a copy of Moonwatch Only and educate yourself like I did because apparently, I know much more about the brand than you do.
Julien Vermeer It does say on Omega's website that the mechanical Speedy pro is the only EVA certified Omega. That makes sense because Quartz watches and LCD displays cannot cope with low temperatures during EVA. I have seen photos of astronauts with mechanical speedys on the outside and x33 on the inside of the suit. Have you seen photos of the X33 used on the outside of a suit during EVA? I'm just curious.
@@ReneAltena Omega themselves say it has been designed for space walking which is the same as EVA. It has a thermo-compensated quartz movement. timeandtidewatches.com/watchspotting-rons-beaten-up-omega-is-cooler-than-yours-or-has-your-speedmaster-x-33-been-into-space/ This X33 seems to have been used during EVA.
Good job. Good video. Like the new setup. Anyway... I'll believe it when I see Omega discontinue the standard Speedmaster. I'll be VERY surprised if the would do something like that. However I would love to see a Speedmaster version with the 3861 caliber as a non Ed White version of the 321 caliber. That would be truly awesome. We'll see. Keep up the good work.
Fantastic video! Very informative. I had no idea the Speedy had gone up so much on the grey market, and that they were all gone. Keep up the great work buddy!
I am glad you were honest about how nice this watch is. I wish it was more like £9,500. I love it. The size is perfect too. It is a brand new 'Ed White', but with a display case back, bespoke made by one watchmaker. A great watch and I think Omega got it right. Gorgeous. If I can get one discounted I am getting one. David from just Horology compared the Omega to a Daytona, you cannot get the Daytona for RRP. I am glad I got my Moonwatch from my local AD, and for only £3,050 , brand new from Authorised Dealer, and not grey market.
For the price, you can build an Omega collection. Speedmaster professional, Speedmaster first man in space, Speedmaster reduced and a Seamaster. Most of these will have to be from the used market but comes out to be about the same as one of the reissue 321. for the same price.
Wow. I’m just ready to consider the Speedy with sapphire. It’s one of my grails for 2020. I hope they don’t discontinue until I decide to buy. This new one seems great but not at $14k. At least not for me. Thanks for your take
A lot of people don't realise, as good as the 321 movement is, it was hard to work on. The 321 movement is great, but when it comes to servicing or fixing it, it takes a more skilled, or more pationate watchsmith to work on it. The average watchsmith didn't like working on the 321 movements.
I think Omega’s strategy is tiered. The standard speedy moon will be updated with the 3861 caliber as an entry level speedy. The middle tier will be occupied by 9900 caliber speedies and the “halo” tier will house the 321. Supply of the 42mm speedy is dwindling because the movement update is imminent.
Michael Dude the 9900 caliber was originally meant to compete with Rolex’s 4130 caliber. Both are column wheel vertical clutch chronographs with adjustable mass balances on a balance bridge and long power reserves. Overall the specs are pretty close except Omegas 9900 has more parts to support a date function.
A really interesting viewpoint Guy, I was thinking how Omega could justify having the moon watch alongside the 321 speedmaster with such a price difference. Being an owner of the hesalite model, it would be interesting if this got discontinued. I do see omega eventually putting the 3681 movement in the moon watch.
The standard Omega Speedmaster Professional 'Moonwatch' won't be discontinued. Omega are only making 2,000 of the Ed White Speedmaster a year, and each one is made by one master watch maker. I think Omega will keep the two versions. I do however think the days of getting a big discount on the normal 'Moonwatch' are limited. I got very big discount on my Moonwatch on a bracelet, hesalite, from a Authorised Dealer not grey market.
Yeah I got my for £2750 in may18 but think they will start raising their prices. The vast majority of the watch market are not watch geeks and the people they’re aiming for are richer than me 😁 hard not to judge watches with our own pockets and I don’t actually think it’s overpriced. Look at what people pay for non ceramic daytonas, the market is out there and the 321 will likely appeal to people in that price bracket whereas the speedy pro is a good value iconic tool watch for watch geeks. There’s a reason Daniel wellington sells more than halios and that’s because we’re in the minority
I totally agree with your thinking It's the most desirable watch from the Omega line. It's timeless and has a great history. It's the obvious choice. They will have to stop the more affordable versions for this to work though. I will probability wait for 15 years and then end up paying silly money for it and finding excuses to justify why it's still worth it. Which is what l did with the standard blue seamaster that l fell in love with 20 years ago before the stupid 007 hype
Your predictions will sadly become the truth. The sad thing is Omega is not caring about your typical guy in the street, and I mean the watch is stunning, but for me this will just bring more heartache to the already much maligned watch collector. Thank you for sharing your video Sir 👍 Tam.
Just got a speedy pro on grey market so feeling like I did well. I also have a '61 pre moon (with real patina) - That said I do love this new watch. Too expensive i agree.
Hmmmm this up-scaling of prices works as long as the economy keeps roaring along...That ain't going to last. Might just see watch companies pricing themselves out of existence. Guess we will see
I think you have it right. Omega will widen a range of hand wound, steel speedmasters, they want to turn a cash cow product into a Star product. They made a mistake investing in Ceramic, modern speedmasters just when the market went mad for steel and vintage look. I am not sure how limited the 321 will teally be. Remember they said that about the Dark side when it was launched.
I'm puzzled, it's got the 321 cal, ok, but basically the watch already exists at a lower price. I can't figure out why someone would pay three times the price of a "normal" moon watch for a different movement, even if it is legendary.
Ah your prediction really changes things for me. I have upto £5,000 to spend on a watch, and am trying to decide between a Railmaster, Speedmaster or an Oyster Perpetual (Explorer is impossible to get). If Speedmaster gets discontinued I know I will regret not having choose it.
A relatively normal movement in the past, now 50 years later becomes "difficult to produce". Who would have thought! That statement (or, should i say, the amount of drama from Omega's departament of marketology) makes me smile. Guy, i think You are pretty close to reality in your speculations especially when i recall the Hoodinkee's phrase thet "There will be no more discounts on Omega products".
I don’t think that’s what Omega is saying. Each piece is hand assembled by one technician, and that’s what is going to be restricting supply, not that it’s difficult to produce per se.
From a commercial standpoint this would make total sense - and quite honestly - pricing trends apart - updating the standard 1861 Speedy with an upgraded movement is overdue, since this watch has been barely changed during the last 20+ years. However, here's a question - to my understanding the fact that the 1861 has been qualified for space flight by Nasa has been an important aspect of Omega's marketing narrative. Unless the new movement undergoes the same testing and achieves the same certification from Nasa, I find it unlikely that the 1861-based Speedy will be discontinued altogether ... Let's see ...
In the first recreation of the 321 Speedmaster, the Platinum with lunar meteorite subdials, Omega never was clear about which Lunar meteorite was exactly used ?! Both the rare & expensive Mars- & Lunar meteorites are classified under Stone-Achondrites with some of the well-known NWA-series definitively identified as lunar basalt. (NWA = North West Africa). Any knows which was used for this 321 Platinum chronograph subdials ?
Rezwan I Sure, I know it was the original movement that went to the moon. I mean that it’s not the current standard ‘moonwatch’ and Omega need something mass produceable in their lineup in order to keep up with demand. They will sell every one of the 321 models they can produce.
I want to love the original Speedmaster, but in your review of it you mention that the crown makes it kind of annoying to wind. For a manual wind movement I would hope to have a pleasurable winding experience. This and the fear of submerging in water kills it for me. I love your videos!
If it were $7-$8k dollars I'd consider selling my hesalite moonwatch and going for it. But $14,100 dollars is a non-starter for me. Still, it's pretty awesome.
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews Agreed, it’s a nice clock, but not at that price. Omega is trying to be Rolex and they should just stick to being Omega. They are doing just fine...
@@JustBlueFish Agreed. It needs to be half the price. I couldn’t justify owning two Speedmasters but I could see myself choosing this one over the Moonwatch, if priced more reasonably - 321, under 40mm, old school bracelet (do we know if the clasp offers any on the go adjustment?) And perhaps the faux patina on the lume wouldn’t look so bad in person....
Great video! Your videos are awesome. Keep doing what you do. If the discontinue the original Omega Speedmaster Pro, how much do you think a price change will be?
Thanks Nikko appreciate that. As for the price change, I don't know really. There are a lot of preowned models out there, they sold millions of them so so I'm not sure how much the preowned market might change. If they discontinue the current models and release new updated models with the 3861 movement I think the new prices on those will go up a lot.
I love it. But yeah, just put a 1863 and charge normal Speedy price. But even with the 321, where are the extra 10 grand coming from? Flat link bracelet is the best though, love the 39mm too. But still like twisted lugs.
Rolex wants to go up in market, Grand Seiko wants to go up and now Omega. I guess everyone can try and let's see what happens but i don't really see non watch guys going crazy about Omega.
I always wanted to try to do the "movie voice" thing so I figured this was a good opportunity to make a little satirical movie trailer style intro. Hope you guys liked it!
They just wanted their share of the " vintage craze " going on right now and priced a 2020 "321" Speedy like a real 1960s "321" Speedy... bad move indeed !
Love all your reviews. However, in this video, I am curious what the significance if the flag in the background? I have presented that same flag to two serviceman widows. I was just curious about its history if you are willing to talk about it. Thanks for your great watch enthusiasm and the professional manner in which you present your videos. Mike.
Great intro and I believe your analysis is spot on! It’s a great looking watch but 14000usd?? A simple 💰 cash grab and Swiss 🇨🇭phuckery that’s keeping me away from ever buying an Omega!! I like the picture quality of your newer videos-new camera 📸 lighting? Best regards
Thanks glad you liked the intro, and thanks for the feedback on the video. I did get a new camera but I also spent a lot of time setting up a better shooting environment, blacking out windows and making more room to work, where I could better control the light.
It's a possibility. However it can open a can of worms. What happen to the cheaper speedies like ladies, eta, reduced, racing versions? Do they need to be discon or fitted with more prestigious movement/spec to push the whole speedy range upmarket when some are only recently fitted with the latest co-axial movement? Not withstanding LE/dark/grey/white side of the moon, current 1861 motm still sit in the middle of the price range in the eco system.
Is there another manual column wheel chronograph with horizontal clutch and display case back in the market in that price range? If there isn't, then there's your answer on why Omega set it at that $14k.
The speed master is one of their biggest sellers discontinuing it for a watch less than 1% of speedy customers would buy only makes sense if the business objective is insolvency. It’s an omega version of the credor Eichi II
I don't think the current Speedmaster, as it sits today will be in the Omega product catalog for much longer. Could they just update it to the new movement with a hefty price jump? Yes they could. Could they discontinue it, and release random limited edition watches every few months? That would surprise me at all. Could it go away entirely? Probably not, but I don't think it can co-exisit with a $14k dollar model that to the average person looks basically the same.
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews this watch was marketed to enthusiasts and collectors only. It is hand finished so numbers will be lower than the MoonWatch which will continue to innovate on its own and as the 321 is a less efficient and more problem prone movement than what’s in the current MoonWatch, it will continue to build on its current movement setup. The MoonWatch with hesilite & the sapphire sandwich are Omegas best selling watches. They will not discontinue it but WILL raise the price soon which is why this one is over $14000. Think of the price as a buffer between infuriating the purchasers of the previous 321 version just out last season, owners of continuously climbing value original vintage 321 Speedys, and the soon to be raised price of the current MoonWatch. It doesn’t undercut any of those 3 markets at its retail price they have set. That was something they unfortunately had to do.
@@JustBlueFish great video Guy, no and at that price I just cant see Omega milking it much longer... Give the customer a steel moon watch with the cal. 321! IMHO Guy, think it's just got to happen and we both know even though its not what most collectors want they will sellout in no time.. Keep up the amazing content and looking forward to seeing what you've got planned for us in 2020!!
I really hope you are wrong, but it seems very likely that that's their plan. Unfortunate, i am currently saving up for a specific refference of the omega speedmaster and would be very sad if that price would go up.
I’m about ready to tell all these watch brands to suck it and - as Guy wisely suggested in a past video - start spending my money on other things. I was fortunate enough to acquire my Rolex OP 39 a few months ago...and between that and my G-Shock, I think I could get through life just fine. I was going to get a Moonwatch this year, but I was already struggling with the value proposition, even with a discount. The Tudor Black Bay 58 may be the only luxury watch on the market that offers good value for money...and I suspect it’s price will increase soon as well. 😡
Hey guy, long time sub, I think you missed the ball on this one- it will be limited production because there is literally one person making the movement at this moment. One. Person. With that being said, I agree with everything else and your speculation. Of course the “standard” plexi glass speedy is a grail of mine, but if this actually does happen I’ll have to get one sooner than anticipated. With that being said, I absolutely love the look, the size and everything about it. But that price is RIDICULOUS
Ya I’m not buying that this justifies the price. It’s still largely machine made. No one is hand building the parts of the movement from tool steel. One person is probably assembling it, maybe. But just like assembling and disassembling a movement for service that’s not that time consuming.
Ma786sai I love my standard 1984 Cal 861 Moon Watch. And my 2015 1861 Tin Tin with red white hand-painted racing chequered border encircling dial. Wouldn’t pay this price for a new 321 Speedmaster. Cyrus
I would not be too surprised if the regular Speedmaster got discontinued in the long run. Omega has been increasing prices very aggressively in the past 5 years. In 2019 the Speedmaster Professional and SMP saw around a 300 euro price increase in both May and November. That is over 10%. My guess is that Omega realized it possesses the heritage, prestige and watchmaking chops to demand a higher premium. As a result they are taking their products to a higher price tier. These Speedmaster editions are just part of that strategy.
Omega has been jacking up their prices over the last 10 years A LOT. In my opinion, the smarter play would be gradual but incremental priced increases with gradual but incremental innovations. Sell panda and white dial Speedmasters as variations, not special editions. It’s a dial. A panda dial doesn’t cost thousands more to make, so the ridicule directed at this practice is not unearned. I don’t mind paying for quality, but Omega has made some alienating moves. But like you said, I’m glad I’ve already got mine.
I dont know. I'm into vintage and have Speedies from the 60s, as for me the 1960s true age of the watch itself has primary value - and it must have tritium and scratches. I hope that, regardless of price positioning, Omega continues to propose the Speedy classic - with 321 or other non-column-wheel Lemania iteration, but with the simple classic dial, bezel, hesalyte, manual wind... so that the dream will live on in the current lineup, a bit like Porsche has always kept the 911 in their lineup.
Yes, it is a great watch. The price is insane. They should have never stopped using the 321 in the Speedy. Omega is just another ugly, greedy, corporate entity. They can keep their over-priced watches. Great video. Please, keep up the good work, sir.
Interesting perspective, but definitely wrong. There is no way Omega will discontinue the speedmaster professional. It probably will, however, get a movement upgrade at some point along with a hefty price increase.
Great video and greater intro, very well done Guy and legit thoughts too. But Rolex does have the Daytona which hasn’t too much to offer either, in relation with that the price for a Speedmaster is high but you do get there an interesting movement. Still, as you, loving the design, hating that foe patina
If they upgrade the Speedmaster to 3861, a price increase to around 7000 USD is likely to happen. Just bear in mind that the current Speedmaster retails for 5350 USD, so it's a bit unfair to say the current watch is a 4000 USD watch based on the street price. Even with an increased MSRP to 7000 USD, it's street price isn't going to be 7000 USD, it'll like be around 5500 USD. So a fairer comparison would be saying the Speedmaster will be moving from a 4000 USD watch to a 5500 USD watch.
Discontinuation of the standard Professional with the 1861/1863 is imminent. Omega has been clear about their desire to transition its entire collection into co-axial and METAS, and the 1861 is the only road block to that. They will discontinue that watch and re-introduce it with the upgraded co-axial 3861 with a $10,000 price tag. We will see a couple more limited editions with the 3861 while they scale up production, and then they will move the 'standard' model across to that. When will this happen? I think within 2 years.
@@JustBlueFish Agreed. Perhaps it won't quite get to $10k right off the bat, but I could definitely see it in the $8-9k range. That would put it in the same kind of price range as the El Primero and Navitimer, which is where it SHOULD sit.
I believe it is going to backfire for Omega. This watch is no way near the level of Daytona, finishing wise. It is basically a Moonwatch with faux patina and 321 movement. The moonwatch is $5k because it looks like a $5k, or less, watch. I am not a Daytona fan and have no plans to own one but it looks like like a expensive watch. You can fool some of the watch enthusiasts some of the time but you cannot fool all enthusiasts all the time
It's hard to quantify what something is worth. The market will decide I suppose. If people buy it up and the second hand prices go up and stay up, I guess it's worth it. But quality wise, yeah it's not really as good as a Daytona. But the market has decided that a Daytona should cost $25,000 dollars.
@@JustBlueFish I agree that the market will decide. And perhaps I should not comment as I have not seen this watch in person. I think Omega is trying to play the same game as Rolex by keeping it limited inventory to jack the price up. But its my money and I will decide if I want to give in to this non-sense corporate greed or not. Note: My comment is not against the watch or it history, its against the marketing hype and its price.
A FOIS or CK2998 is a much better buy to get a similar style and size, just without the 321. If you want a 321-like movement but with a vertical clutch then a vintage Seiko Speedtimer fits that with a lot left over. Of course Omega could discontinue the Moonwatch for a year or so and bring it back... as.... a limited edition!
The new one is too small and 4-5k too expensive, at that price you're close to Sky Dwellers and Royal Oaks and I think they will always be considered more interesting choices among the luxury steel watches
I'm lucky to have a 1969 with 861 and some limited editions like the Apollo 17 45 anniversary in gold. I'm just thinking why spend this amount of money for a redesigned 321. I would put a little more and buy THE real one. To be honest I really love speedy and I hope that it will not ended in speculation like Rolex.....
I think you are wrong. Omega launched the caliber 3821 last year. You don’t make a new caliber for just 2 limited editions and then move on. The 3821 is the new moon watch caliber. The 321 will be reserved for higher end editions, such as the Ed White.
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews Yep, from start to finish: 5:28 “I fully expect the standard Speedmaster to be discontinued “, but you do go on to mention the 3821 later on as a second option to discontinuing the standard moon watch, so credit to you.
@@63worf if they replace the speedmaster with a new model featuring the 3861 (the correct calibre btw), the current model will be discontinued you know.
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews Ok, it sounded like you were saying the standard Speedmaster moonwatch would be discontinued. To me a change of movement is an update, like with the caliber 861 and the 1861. Maybe I read too much into it. Sorry, yes new caliber is 3861. I should know this, as it’s in my Apollo 11 50th anniversary.
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Do you recommend getting the 1861 speedmaster or wait for the 3861?
This is going to be the OG of Speedmasters... the venerable 321 movement with even a superior finish... hand assembled by Omega's top watch makers.. it's the first Omega I've paid any attention to in 25+ years.. I bought this instead of a Hulk today. No regrets what so ever.
Good choice! It's for the secure individual who knows what he wants and has. Not for showing off
. congratulations on a mature choice!
I like it. It’s a very niche model for absolute enthusiasts so I see this and the standard models continuing alongside each other for the foreseeable future.
You may be right, but the standard model at it's current price doesn't likely long term. I do think at a minimum the new movement and a major price increase is coming.
Yes, we've been asking for this watch for ages. We just forgot to ask for it at a reasonable price. Woops.
I think your analysis is really spot-on! That's why I'll keep cherishing my 30 years old Speedmaster in the future.
It seems to me that the niche market being targeted here is the “stealth wealth” brigade, money is not an issue for these people but a smug feeling of exclusivity is...this is not a mainstream watch!
Great analysis, Guy, and great step up in video production. Your lighting and music-to-voiceover mixing were spot on!
Thanks buddy I’ve been working on it lately. Hoped it paid off.
Glad I bought my Speedmaster Pro in 2018.
I think you’re about right on most of it. The new 321 moon watch is a top end high spec more compact luxury watch. The new 321 movement is a work of art and must be very labour intensive to produce using the best possible materials. This is where a lot of the price comes from. I’ve heard some You Tube people complain it’s not in a normal speed master case which is a bit odd. That would tarnish the current speed master and the current speed master is not really up to Omega’s new higher standards and much improved quality and movements. I think we might see a whole new speed master soon.
Just today, the guy from my local AD (Jakarta) text me and say that I am lucky to bought the speedmaster pro just last December, because the stock is drying up now. Only 2 watches arrived in the country since last December - usually it was 4 to 5 watches per months. So, so far so true.
I see your point! My thing about the new one is its not really the Moon Watch. Its smaller and has sapphire and see through case back. Its almost like this was created to combat the Daytona more than replace the good ole classic Moonwatch.
Good content Guy. Here is my view that I posted on another channel: Funny: This 321 movement hasn't been made for 50 years. It was at the time, prior to 1970, one of the best, if not THE best chronograph movement of all time. It was so good that Patek used the Lemania version of it for decades. Who else used it? Vacheron! Try to get one of those 2 old watches for $14,000! And now there is a bitch about how high priced this modern 321 version is? And this watch comes with NASA history! As far as I know the 321 movement is the only movement that was on the lunar surface (I can't find anything to refute it). Any other watches walked on the moon? No! And now watch enthusiasts dare say how expensive it is! This watch blows the Rolex Daytona a new ass as far as history goes and you can actually see the gorgeous movement from the back of the case. Remember, Rolex had their chance to make it to the moon. They didn't make it. Omega and the 321 movement did. Who knows, I may have a chance to actually buy this Omega at retail. If I want to get a Daytona ceramic, who's junk do I have to suck to get a used one for $22,000?
Totally agree.
The Speedmaster Professional is Omegas's biggest seller. No chance it will be discontinued. The 321 is basically like a precious metal Submariner. Can you ever see Rolex discontinuing the stainless steel Sub? No chance.
But they already have PM Speedmaster models. That said I don’t think it gets discontinued, well not likely anyway, but I’d bet money that the prices will go up. It’s too wide if a gap for models that are too similar.
@Michael Dude You're looking at brand name instead of the watch itself.
@Michael Dude www.omegawatches.com/watches/speedmaster/skywalker-x-33/skywalker-x-33/product
Thanks for bringing up an old discussion which you clearly lost. I advice you to pick up a copy of Moonwatch Only and educate yourself like I did because apparently, I know much more about the brand than you do.
Julien Vermeer It does say on Omega's website that the mechanical Speedy pro is the only EVA certified Omega. That makes sense because Quartz watches and LCD displays cannot cope with low temperatures during EVA. I have seen photos of astronauts with mechanical speedys on the outside and x33 on the inside of the suit. Have you seen photos of the X33 used on the outside of a suit during EVA? I'm just curious.
@@ReneAltena Omega themselves say it has been designed for space walking which is the same as EVA. It has a thermo-compensated quartz movement. timeandtidewatches.com/watchspotting-rons-beaten-up-omega-is-cooler-than-yours-or-has-your-speedmaster-x-33-been-into-space/
This X33 seems to have been used during EVA.
Best watch intro ever!!!
Thanks man, glad you liked it.
Realy Nice move Omega♎️
Good job. Good video. Like the new setup. Anyway... I'll believe it when I see Omega discontinue the standard Speedmaster. I'll be VERY surprised if the would do something like that. However I would love to see a Speedmaster version with the 3861 caliber as a non Ed White version of the 321 caliber. That would be truly awesome. We'll see. Keep up the good work.
Thanks man appreciate the feedback!
Great video, man.
Thanks buddy!
Waiting for this beauty but it feels like forever 🙈
I hope Omega don’t play the same games like Rolex “artificial shortage” ... because I really want to get this one ... it’s perfect 👌🏻
Fantastic video! Very informative. I had no idea the Speedy had gone up so much on the grey market, and that they were all gone. Keep up the great work buddy!
Hang on to your speedy I think things are changing.
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews absolutely, it’s not going anywhere.
I am glad you were honest about how nice this watch is. I wish it was more like £9,500. I love it. The size is perfect too. It is a brand new 'Ed White', but with a display case back, bespoke made by one watchmaker. A great watch and I think Omega got it right. Gorgeous. If I can get one discounted I am getting one. David from just Horology compared the Omega to a Daytona, you cannot get the Daytona for RRP.
I am glad I got my Moonwatch from my local AD, and for only £3,050 , brand new from Authorised Dealer, and not grey market.
I think they got just about everything right, but the price! Man that f*cker is expensive!
@@JustBlueFish Totally agree Guy. I think £10,000 UK sterling would be a maximum. Even Paul Pluta likes it, aha. Your friend David isn't a fan. 😅
@@JustBlueFish I think you can get a vintage Ed White for this price. It would be a bit delicate though.
@@JustBlueFish I changed my mind. As much as I like this watch, I don't think I will get one.
For the price, you can build an Omega collection. Speedmaster professional, Speedmaster first man in space, Speedmaster reduced and a Seamaster. Most of these will have to be from the used market but comes out to be about the same as one of the reissue 321. for the same price.
Probably a better use of the money from a lot of people’s perspective.
Wow. I’m just ready to consider the Speedy with sapphire. It’s one of my grails for 2020. I hope they don’t discontinue until I decide to buy. This new one seems great but not at $14k. At least not for me. Thanks for your take
I don't have a crystal ball, but I wouldn't be surprised if at a minimum they update the watch to the new movement and increase the price accordingly.
A lot of people don't realise, as good as the 321 movement is, it was hard to work on. The 321 movement is great, but when it comes to servicing or fixing it, it takes a more skilled, or more pationate watchsmith to work on it. The average watchsmith didn't like working on the 321 movements.
LOL, watch makers have lost their minds lately. Oh well.
That might be true.
The economy is generally good, so there are more buyers.
That didn’t age well lol
Good I paid almost 4,000 for my speedmaster 2 months ago hopefully it goes up ⬆️ in value
I think Omega’s strategy is tiered. The standard speedy moon will be updated with the 3861 caliber as an entry level speedy. The middle tier will be occupied by 9900 caliber speedies and the “halo” tier will house the 321. Supply of the 42mm speedy is dwindling because the movement update is imminent.
Michael Dude the 9900 caliber was originally meant to compete with Rolex’s 4130 caliber. Both are column wheel vertical clutch chronographs with adjustable mass balances on a balance bridge and long power reserves. Overall the specs are pretty close except Omegas 9900 has more parts to support a date function.
I totally agree. I bought mine yesterday!
A really interesting viewpoint Guy, I was thinking how Omega could justify having the moon watch alongside the 321 speedmaster with such a price difference. Being an owner of the hesalite model, it would be interesting if this got discontinued. I do see omega eventually putting the 3681 movement in the moon watch.
Thanks Tom! Hang on to that hesalite model I think it will go up in value.
I just ordered an hesalite version one.
The price and the new future movement is crazy!
I prefer the current model.
Great review!!!!
The standard Omega Speedmaster Professional 'Moonwatch' won't be discontinued. Omega are only making 2,000 of the Ed White Speedmaster a year, and each one is made by one master watch maker. I think Omega will keep the two versions. I do however think the days of getting a big discount on the normal 'Moonwatch' are limited. I got very big discount on my Moonwatch on a bracelet, hesalite, from a Authorised Dealer not grey market.
Yeah I got my for £2750 in may18 but think they will start raising their prices. The vast majority of the watch market are not watch geeks and the people they’re aiming for are richer than me 😁 hard not to judge watches with our own pockets and I don’t actually think it’s overpriced. Look at what people pay for non ceramic daytonas, the market is out there and the 321 will likely appeal to people in that price bracket whereas the speedy pro is a good value iconic tool watch for watch geeks. There’s a reason Daniel wellington sells more than halios and that’s because we’re in the minority
I want this watch and I want it bad but $14k...Omega can Foxtrot Oscar.
Pretty much.
I totally agree with your thinking It's the most desirable watch from the Omega line. It's timeless and has a great history. It's the obvious choice. They will have to stop the more affordable versions for this to work though.
I will probability wait for 15 years and then end up paying silly money for it and finding excuses to justify why it's still worth it. Which is what l did with the standard blue seamaster that l fell in love with 20 years ago before the stupid 007 hype
Thanks for watching buddy!
Your predictions will sadly become the truth. The sad thing is Omega is not caring about your typical guy in the street, and I mean the watch is stunning, but for me this will just bring more heartache to the already much maligned watch collector. Thank you for sharing your video Sir 👍 Tam.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts B. I hope I'm wrong but I have a pretty good feeling about the direction they're going.
Interesting video 👍
My AD in Sydney told me up to 5 year wait so pulled the trigger on a SpeedMaster Pro SS instead
Just got a speedy pro on grey market so feeling like I did well. I also have a '61 pre moon (with real patina) - That said I do love this new watch. Too expensive i agree.
Hmmmm this up-scaling of prices works as long as the economy keeps roaring along...That ain't going to last. Might just see watch companies pricing themselves out of existence. Guess we will see
THANK YOU. I thought I was the only one who thought 14k was a joke.
It's not even April 1st!
@@JustBlueFish seriously though, this seems worse than Grand Seiko's ninja star watch announcement for April Fools last year lol
I think you have it right. Omega will widen a range of hand wound, steel speedmasters, they want to turn a cash cow product into a Star product. They made a mistake investing in Ceramic, modern speedmasters just when the market went mad for steel and vintage look.
I am not sure how limited the 321 will teally be. Remember they said that about the Dark side when it was launched.
I love this critique
I'm puzzled, it's got the 321 cal, ok, but basically the watch already exists at a lower price. I can't figure out why someone would pay three times the price of a "normal" moon watch for a different movement, even if it is legendary.
I can just buy a 1960s moon watch for half the price of new
Ah your prediction really changes things for me.
I have upto £5,000 to spend on a watch, and am trying to decide between a Railmaster, Speedmaster or an Oyster Perpetual (Explorer is impossible to get). If Speedmaster gets discontinued I know I will regret not having choose it.
I could be wrong, and those other choices are pretty awesome. I'd get what you'd enjoy the the most.
A relatively normal movement in the past, now 50 years later becomes "difficult to produce". Who would have thought! That statement (or, should i say, the amount of drama from Omega's departament of marketology) makes me smile.
Guy, i think You are pretty close to reality in your speculations especially when i recall the Hoodinkee's phrase thet "There will be no more discounts on Omega products".
Ya good point, how'd it become harder to make all the sudden?
I don’t think that’s what Omega is saying. Each piece is hand assembled by one technician, and that’s what is going to be restricting supply, not that it’s difficult to produce per se.
@@63worf , Don't listen what they are saying, read between lines!
This is a big OUCH for Australian buyers.
From a commercial standpoint this would make total sense - and quite honestly - pricing trends apart - updating the standard 1861 Speedy with an upgraded movement is overdue, since this watch has been barely changed during the last 20+ years. However, here's a question - to my understanding the fact that the 1861 has been qualified for space flight by Nasa has been an important aspect of Omega's marketing narrative. Unless the new movement undergoes the same testing and achieves the same certification from Nasa, I find it unlikely that the 1861-based Speedy will be discontinued altogether ...
Let's see ...
That was one epic intro. Almost makes me want to buy it... almost
haha, thanks glad you liked it.
In the first recreation of the 321 Speedmaster, the Platinum with lunar meteorite subdials, Omega never was clear about which Lunar meteorite was exactly used ?!
Both the rare & expensive Mars- & Lunar meteorites are classified under Stone-Achondrites with some of the well-known NWA-series definitively identified as lunar
basalt. (NWA = North West Africa). Any knows which was used for this 321 Platinum chronograph subdials ?
Don’t you think the Calibre 321 was discontinued for a reason?
It’s crazy paying that much money for an old movement
Can’t believe they’ll discontinue the moonwatch. Ever. This is not THE moonwatch so it still has its place IMHO.
This is THE moonwatch, the 321 is the original movement.
Rezwan I Sure, I know it was the original movement that went to the moon. I mean that it’s not the current standard ‘moonwatch’ and Omega need something mass produceable in their lineup in order to keep up with demand. They will sell every one of the 321 models they can produce.
Good observations!
I want to love the original Speedmaster, but in your review of it you mention that the crown makes it kind of annoying to wind. For a manual wind movement I would hope to have a pleasurable winding experience. This and the fear of submerging in water kills it for me. I love your videos!
For the ridiculous price of this watch, I’d rather have my Sapphire Sandwich.
If it were $7-$8k dollars I'd consider selling my hesalite moonwatch and going for it. But $14,100 dollars is a non-starter for me. Still, it's pretty awesome.
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews Agreed, it’s a nice clock, but not at that price. Omega is trying to be Rolex and they should just stick to being Omega. They are doing just fine...
@@JustBlueFish Agreed. It needs to be half the price. I couldn’t justify owning two Speedmasters but I could see myself choosing this one over the Moonwatch, if priced more reasonably - 321, under 40mm, old school bracelet (do we know if the clasp offers any on the go adjustment?) And perhaps the faux patina on the lume wouldn’t look so bad in person....
Robert N Looks like the exact same watch to me.
Mr Perpetual Yes and it’s 2mm smaller. It also has patina hands which I’m not crazy about.
Great video! Your videos are awesome. Keep doing what you do.
If the discontinue the original Omega Speedmaster Pro, how much do you think a price change will be?
Thanks Nikko appreciate that. As for the price change, I don't know really. There are a lot of preowned models out there, they sold millions of them so so I'm not sure how much the preowned market might change. If they discontinue the current models and release new updated models with the 3861 movement I think the new prices on those will go up a lot.
I love it. But yeah, just put a 1863 and charge normal Speedy price. But even with the 321, where are the extra 10 grand coming from?
Flat link bracelet is the best though, love the 39mm too. But still like twisted lugs.
Rolex wants to go up in market, Grand Seiko wants to go up and now Omega. I guess everyone can try and let's see what happens but i don't really see non watch guys going crazy about Omega.
I think this decade will be a bumpy ride for the watch industry.
I have three on pre-order to test how bullet-proof they are.
Can I have one please?
Alot of money, ...for alot of watch??! You sound like David Hayter aka Solid Snake in the intro. Great job!
I always wanted to try to do the "movie voice" thing so I figured this was a good opportunity to make a little satirical movie trailer style intro. Hope you guys liked it!
Great intro 😁👍
Thanks Mark!
gorgeous watch, totally overpriced, bad move from Omega
They just wanted their share of the " vintage craze " going on right now and priced a 2020 "321" Speedy like a real 1960s "321" Speedy... bad move indeed !
At 8K i’d place my order today but 14K plus another 1K sales tax I can’t swallow that. Very happy with my sapphire sandwich!
Yep, pretty much this.
Love all your reviews. However, in this video, I am curious what the significance if the flag in the background? I have presented that same flag to two serviceman widows. I was just curious about its history if you are willing to talk about it. Thanks for your great watch enthusiasm and the professional manner in which you present your videos. Mike.
It was the flag from my grandfathers funeral, he was a wwii veteran.
Outstanding and God bless
Great intro and I believe your analysis is spot on! It’s a great looking watch but 14000usd?? A simple 💰 cash grab and Swiss 🇨🇭phuckery that’s keeping me away from ever buying an Omega!! I like the picture quality of your newer videos-new camera 📸 lighting? Best regards
Thanks glad you liked the intro, and thanks for the feedback on the video. I did get a new camera but I also spent a lot of time setting up a better shooting environment, blacking out windows and making more room to work, where I could better control the light.
Glad I got my Professional for $3.5k
Ha! I like your intro!
I bet this is a huge hit and will sell over the $14M price (until supply catches up to demand). Time will tell.
It's a possibility. However it can open a can of worms. What happen to the cheaper speedies like ladies, eta, reduced, racing versions? Do they need to be discon or fitted with more prestigious movement/spec to push the whole speedy range upmarket when some are only recently fitted with the latest co-axial movement? Not withstanding LE/dark/grey/white side of the moon, current 1861 motm still sit in the middle of the price range in the eco system.
Good question, I don’t know.
Is there another manual column wheel chronograph with horizontal clutch and display case back in the market in that price range? If there isn't, then there's your answer on why Omega set it at that $14k.
The Speedmaster Professional is not going to be discontinued.
they can increase, speedmaster was a steal when you look others brands with less heritage went up 50% in price.
I would love to own a Speedmaster, but at that prize forget about it (spoken in my best New Jersey dialect).
Hmm.. Omega’s pushing upstream. I think your analysis is correct. But I prefer the new design to the old.
They ask for this price,because there are enough people, who are throwing away their money, like in 2007...
If they’ll pay it I guess you can’t blame them.
And the party ended in 2008...so true.
The speed master is one of their biggest sellers discontinuing it for a watch less than 1% of speedy customers would buy only makes sense if the business objective is insolvency. It’s an omega version of the credor Eichi II
I don't think the current Speedmaster, as it sits today will be in the Omega product catalog for much longer. Could they just update it to the new movement with a hefty price jump? Yes they could. Could they discontinue it, and release random limited edition watches every few months? That would surprise me at all. Could it go away entirely? Probably not, but I don't think it can co-exisit with a $14k dollar model that to the average person looks basically the same.
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews this watch was marketed to enthusiasts and collectors only. It is hand finished so numbers will be lower than the MoonWatch which will continue to innovate on its own and as the 321 is a less efficient and more problem prone movement than what’s in the current MoonWatch, it will continue to build on its current movement setup.
The MoonWatch with hesilite & the sapphire sandwich are Omegas best selling watches. They will not discontinue it but WILL raise the price soon which is why this one is over $14000. Think of the price as a buffer between infuriating the purchasers of the previous 321 version just out last season, owners of continuously climbing value original vintage 321 Speedys, and the soon to be raised price of the current MoonWatch.
It doesn’t undercut any of those 3 markets at its retail price they have set. That was something they unfortunately had to do.
Talking about expensive: What about the 42mm Platinum version of the 321 - priced at almost USD 60k !?!
Omega trying to be Rolex except they ain’t Rolex.
ivan kerr I hope Omega don’t play the Rolex game (artificial shortage)
More of a remake of the pre-moon spacewalk watch, still nice but not the moon watch everyone was hoping for in steel.. Price is just crazy!!!
The Pre-Moon watch, just doesn't have quite the same ring to it does it?
@@JustBlueFish The 'Ed White' to Omega fans , definitely does though.
@@JustBlueFish great video Guy, no and at that price I just cant see Omega milking it much longer... Give the customer a steel moon watch with the cal. 321! IMHO Guy, think it's just got to happen and we both know even though its not what most collectors want they will sellout in no time.. Keep up the amazing content and looking forward to seeing what you've got planned for us in 2020!!
I don’t care about the price as long as it’s available and omega please, don’t follow Rolex game (artificial shortage)
I really hope you are wrong, but it seems very likely that that's their plan. Unfortunate, i am currently saving up for a specific refference of the omega speedmaster and would be very sad if that price would go up.
I wonder what's going to happen to all those limited editions with 1861.
Hopefully everyone gives them all to me!
Speedmaster 57 60th anniversary: it will boom. Is the Omega to bet on... Beside being fantastic
I’m about ready to tell all these watch brands to suck it and - as Guy wisely suggested in a past video - start spending my money on other things. I was fortunate enough to acquire my Rolex OP 39 a few months ago...and between that and my G-Shock, I think I could get through life just fine. I was going to get a Moonwatch this year, but I was already struggling with the value proposition, even with a discount. The Tudor Black Bay 58 may be the only luxury watch on the market that offers good value for money...and I suspect it’s price will increase soon as well. 😡
I bought guitars! No regrets.
Hey guy, long time sub, I think you missed the ball on this one- it will be limited production because there is literally one person making the movement at this moment. One. Person. With that being said, I agree with everything else and your speculation. Of course the “standard” plexi glass speedy is a grail of mine, but if this actually does happen I’ll have to get one sooner than anticipated.
With that being said, I absolutely love the look, the size and everything about it. But that price is RIDICULOUS
Ya I’m not buying that this justifies the price. It’s still largely machine made. No one is hand building the parts of the movement from tool steel. One person is probably assembling it, maybe. But just like assembling and disassembling a movement for service that’s not that time consuming.
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews yes agreed probably one guys assembling for sure machine made
Ma786sai
I love my standard 1984 Cal 861 Moon Watch. And my 2015 1861 Tin Tin with red white hand-painted racing chequered border encircling dial. Wouldn’t pay this price for a new 321 Speedmaster. Cyrus
I would not be too surprised if the regular Speedmaster got discontinued in the long run. Omega has been increasing prices very aggressively in the past 5 years. In 2019 the Speedmaster Professional and SMP saw around a 300 euro price increase in both May and November. That is over 10%.
My guess is that Omega realized it possesses the heritage, prestige and watchmaking chops to demand a higher premium. As a result they are taking their products to a higher price tier. These Speedmaster editions are just part of that strategy.
Omega has been jacking up their prices over the last 10 years A LOT. In my opinion, the smarter play would be gradual but incremental priced increases with gradual but incremental innovations. Sell panda and white dial Speedmasters as variations, not special editions. It’s a dial. A panda dial doesn’t cost thousands more to make, so the ridicule directed at this practice is not unearned. I don’t mind paying for quality, but Omega has made some alienating moves. But like you said, I’m glad I’ve already got mine.
That forecast is a pity but for those who already have one at least one pension insurance that seems to work out. Cheers from Switzerland.
I dont know. I'm into vintage and have Speedies from the 60s, as for me the 1960s true age of the watch itself has primary value - and it must have tritium and scratches. I hope that, regardless of price positioning, Omega continues to propose the Speedy classic - with 321 or other non-column-wheel Lemania iteration, but with the simple classic dial, bezel, hesalyte, manual wind... so that the dream will live on in the current lineup, a bit like Porsche has always kept the 911 in their lineup.
Yes, it is a great watch. The price is insane.
They should have never stopped using the 321 in the Speedy.
Omega is just another ugly, greedy, corporate entity.
They can keep their over-priced watches.
Great video. Please, keep up the good work, sir.
Thanks Archer!
For the promise of 1 watch maker per calibre/watch, imho, the money is worth it... How many big brands out there, dare to shout this? Rollie? PP?
I've put down my deposit and I wasn't the first to do so at my AD...He has 3 ahead of me.
Interesting perspective, but definitely wrong. There is no way Omega will discontinue the speedmaster professional. It probably will, however, get a movement upgrade at some point along with a hefty price increase.
Great video and greater intro, very well done Guy and legit thoughts too.
But Rolex does have the Daytona which hasn’t too much to offer either, in relation with that the price for a Speedmaster is high but you do get there an interesting movement.
Still, as you, loving the design, hating that foe patina
Thank you my friend!
the speedmaster is not even worth 1/3 of the Daytona value. haters are those who cant afford it!
Omega has gone NUTS!!!
If they upgrade the Speedmaster to 3861, a price increase to around 7000 USD is likely to happen.
Just bear in mind that the current Speedmaster retails for 5350 USD, so it's a bit unfair to say the current watch is a 4000 USD watch based on the street price. Even with an increased MSRP to 7000 USD, it's street price isn't going to be 7000 USD, it'll like be around 5500 USD. So a fairer comparison would be saying the Speedmaster will be moving from a 4000 USD watch to a 5500 USD watch.
Discontinuation of the standard Professional with the 1861/1863 is imminent. Omega has been clear about their desire to transition its entire collection into co-axial and METAS, and the 1861 is the only road block to that. They will discontinue that watch and re-introduce it with the upgraded co-axial 3861 with a $10,000 price tag. We will see a couple more limited editions with the 3861 while they scale up production, and then they will move the 'standard' model across to that. When will this happen? I think within 2 years.
$10k, that’s gonna make a lot of people unhappy haha. But the price has to go up.
@@JustBlueFish Agreed. Perhaps it won't quite get to $10k right off the bat, but I could definitely see it in the $8-9k range. That would put it in the same kind of price range as the El Primero and Navitimer, which is where it SHOULD sit.
I believe it is going to backfire for Omega. This watch is no way near the level of Daytona, finishing wise. It is basically a Moonwatch with faux patina and 321 movement. The moonwatch is $5k because it looks like a $5k, or less, watch. I am not a Daytona fan and have no plans to own one but it looks like like a expensive watch. You can fool some of the watch enthusiasts some of the time but you cannot fool all enthusiasts all the time
It's hard to quantify what something is worth. The market will decide I suppose. If people buy it up and the second hand prices go up and stay up, I guess it's worth it. But quality wise, yeah it's not really as good as a Daytona. But the market has decided that a Daytona should cost $25,000 dollars.
@@JustBlueFish I agree that the market will decide. And perhaps I should not comment as I have not seen this watch in person. I think Omega is trying to play the same game as Rolex by keeping it limited inventory to jack the price up. But its my money and I will decide if I want to give in to this non-sense corporate greed or not. Note: My comment is not against the watch or it history, its against the marketing hype and its price.
Jus when I thought I was going to buy a 40mm moon watch that fits my wrist size. Omega tripled the price.
You still got FOIS and the CK2998 alternatives with the 1861 movement
A FOIS or CK2998 is a much better buy to get a similar style and size, just without the 321. If you want a 321-like movement but with a vertical clutch then a vintage Seiko Speedtimer fits that with a lot left over. Of course Omega could discontinue the Moonwatch for a year or so and bring it back... as.... a limited edition!
The new one is too small and 4-5k too expensive, at that price you're close to Sky Dwellers and Royal Oaks and I think they will always be considered more interesting choices among the luxury steel watches
I'm lucky to have a 1969 with 861 and some limited editions like the Apollo 17 45 anniversary in gold. I'm just thinking why spend this amount of money for a redesigned 321. I would put a little more and buy THE real one. To be honest I really love speedy and I hope that it will not ended in speculation like Rolex.....
I think you are wrong. Omega launched the caliber 3821 last year. You don’t make a new caliber for just 2 limited editions and then move on. The 3821 is the new moon watch caliber. The 321 will be reserved for higher end editions, such as the Ed White.
You didn't watch the whole video did you?
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews Yep, from start to finish: 5:28 “I fully expect the standard Speedmaster to be discontinued “, but you do go on to mention the 3821 later on as a second option to discontinuing the standard moon watch, so credit to you.
@@63worf if they replace the speedmaster with a new model featuring the 3861 (the correct calibre btw), the current model will be discontinued you know.
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews Ok, it sounded like you were saying the standard Speedmaster moonwatch would be discontinued. To me a change of movement is an update, like with the caliber 861 and the 1861. Maybe I read too much into it. Sorry, yes new caliber is 3861. I should know this, as it’s in my Apollo 11 50th anniversary.