I've seen people tweeting about her for too long now! Can't believe she's still talking over the deaf/hard of hearing community. Shared both these. Solidarity from the disabled community ✊🏻
As a hearing person, even I feel weird that she'd do this. It's like teaching a med student how to perform a surgery when you are a med student yourself. You don't have the necessary knowledge to teach. I hope she stops.
@@Am_._ right, me too!! You don’t let someone in driving lessons teach their friend to drive and you don’t let someone who can only make sandwiches and eggs teach someone to cook so how is this any better??
As part of the "disabled community" I see much, not all, but a lot of this as political correctness crap. I agree she shouldn't be teaching, but this girl in this video isn't fluent or straight ASL either.
@@MusicInMotion_67 she's almost fluent though. She's been learning ASL since high school and she's in college now. She also knows how to sign correctly. Also she's not teaching ASL lmao
She does start a good deal of her videos by signing and captioning "today I learned" followed by the word of the day. Not all of her content includes this, but a decent chunk of it does.
@@taylspin It should say that on all of them if she's going to post, especially when people get random videos on their feed. I just went to her page and clicked on a random video. All the script says is "Your beautiful in Sign Language #educational #americansignlanguage #asl #learninglanguages" and she signed it wrong. That's not okay. All she's doing is spreading misinformation.
I stopped learning ASL because I couldn't find a learning channel on RUclips or local place to learn. While my son was speach delayed because of hearing issues. We put together signs to communicate. Now he can hear after surgery. And now I am going deaf. These types of things terrify me and stop me from learning.
Hi! Bill Vicars is an amazing RUclips Channel that most people learn from, also the Oklahoma School of Deaf has free ASL lessons for ASL 1 and ASL 2! You got this, and I wish you well
I’m sorry if I’m misunderstanding but I get if she’s just flat out wrong when “teaching” those signs but is there anything wrong with just teaching a sign in general like I get that the way ASL is structured is wayyyyyyy different than English language but if I’m not fluent I’m not allowed to teach someone a new word?
@@WillZak_official yes, hearing people should not teach period. we cannot understand as much as a deaf person does, and due to the oppression we hearing people did to deaf people, they rather non deaf or hard or hearing people not teach ASL
@@WillZak_official showing someone a new word is different i believe because you are showing a whole crowd it, and they probably will forget anyways but you should never be offering services whatsoever
It'd be so easy to reframe a video like that as "The sign I learned today" and then sign it with its translation (even add a 'let me know if I made any mistakes' or something). It'd be just as effective as what she's doing
Yes I agree, when I was trying to learn sign to communicate with my deaf sister, I had her help me and give feedback so I could be fluent and be able to “talk” to her at any time she needed or wanted to.
teaching a person in real life is one thing. You're there and you can correct their mistakes, show them how to fix things, etc. But you can't do that online. You can't even control what people do with the information you put out there. So if you're not a professional, you have no place "teaching" that stuff at all. It's the same way I feel about people teaching others medical info online. I work in the medical field, and the amount of crap i see online that is just plain wrong is staggering. And that crap is just plain dangerous.
Yeah, that was one of the first things I got told as well. I get wanting to show that you are learning, and I do show friends when I learn a fun new sign or something I am proud of. HOWEVER, I do this in private with showing the official Dutch sign language dictionary and telling that I am not yet fluent. I want to learn the deaf culture, so to be told that this damages the community would be enough to don't do this. Not nice of Lola, clearly a lack of respect.
@@M_SC It's a general consensus that hearing people shouldn't teach sign languages. Period. It's not just about the language, it's a mother language of a minority and needs to be taught with regard to the deaf culture. None of us hearing people have that first-hand experience. Not to mention it's taking away the job opportunities for deaf sign language teachers as most people prefer the easier option of a teacher who can communicate in your language, minimizing your own effort... I quit my voluntary weekly czech sign language lesson for this and want to learn it properly later when i find a deaf teacher someday.
Important to note: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO KNOW EVERY SINGLE WORD IN A LANGUAGE TO BE FLUENT!!!! my hard of hearing sign language teacher has been learning sign for 25+ years and teaching it for 6+ years. She was hard of hearing since birth. That doesn’t mean she knows every single sign to exist. She knows *most* of them. I will occasionally ask her about a sign that she doesn’t know. THAT IS OKAY! My other deaf sign language teacher runs into the same situation. He has been deaf since birth. He also occasionally does not know a sign that we ask him about. THAT IS OK!!! once again, fluency does not equal perfection.
Not to mention it’s a living language that’s evolving and has different regional signs! No one is going to know it all. I asked my deaf and coda instructor if there was a sign for bouldering separate from rock climbing and he wasn’t sure and asked some friends! Always great to have a teacher who’s willing to admit “I don’t know”
@@jacquelynchin5513 absolutely! Living languages are always changing! Hearing people that speak English (or any other language as well) don’t always know every word! There will be things that you don’t know! The important thing is to not pretend like you are an expert.
WT heck are you even doing with this comment?? The point of the video is a non-hearing impaired person teaching INCORRECT signs as if she knows what she’s talking about. Not only is she pulling from the actual community and people who do know how to sign accurately. She’s able to monetize that attention. She should be called out so people are aware of the inaccuracy and misrepresentation
Fluency in a language is having a vocabulary of at least 5,000 words, and the ability to properly execute the grammar and syntax of that language as we’ll as understanding the (at least) the basics of the culture in which the language is used.
She literally encouraged people to send hate to those politely correcting her signs in the comments to the point it led to death threats against those people. When confronted with this, she blatantly ignored it and continued playing the victim. She lied about being a fluent interpreter to gain an opportunity to sign the national anthem at sporting events
@@ahmadalimi9784that is an entirely different scenario than what is described in the video. This issue shouldnt be phrased as "You shouldnt be teaching signs you learned when you arent fluent" it should be "Dont actively send death threats when deaf people correct your signs"
Another issue with teaching online whether you're fluent or not is dialects. If you're fluent in California asl and you come to Philadelphia you will need to relearn asl. Philadelphia never lost asl like most other states and because of this it has the most unique dialect in the whole country. It's much closer to French sign language than ASL. In the 1770's a Frenchmen opened up the very first school for the deaf in Philadelphia.
Holy knowledge lol! I can't even remember the year I was born in half the time let alone a whole ass asl history lesson by territory. 🤭 This was actually really cool. I'm glad you said everything you did! Every time I pop down to her comment section I learn something new like this that I find very interesting and can read up on. 👍🏻 💯 Thanks mate! Learning good, fire bad. 🤣
That would make sense with different languages (English, Spanish, Italian, ect), but why isn't ASL universal in English? It seems like it would make it that much more difficult to communicate if there are so many different dialects within an area/country. Why aren't they streamlined? Is that something that's known or just evolved into?
@@phoenixfire2578 The first reason that ASL isn't universal throughout anglophone countries is America is not the origin of the anglophones. If sign languages followed the spoken languages used in the Modern era (they didn't), British Sign Language would be the obvious choice. ASL is thought to have originated at a school started by a man who learned sign language in France while observing other educators of deaf students. Thus, ASL shares more with a sign language that isn't associated with anglophones than it does with BSL.
@@beyondfan thank you for your reply! I thought ASL was structured from the language in the area to coincide with reading lips. I thought I understood how it works and I was clearly wrong! 😀
@@perregrine thank you for your reply! Wow. I need to look into this further bc I thought signs were directly from the words spoken. I imagine so many more people think it works that way too.
The next generation of school kids over here will be fluent in ASL (Australian) as sign language has become part of the school curriculum 😀 and I think it's absolutely fan-bloody-tastic! The deaf community is now going to be inclusive in everyday life as kids will be taught from a young age sign language as they learn words and speech as they grow.
I wish America would take a lesson from Australia's book. Some colleges won't even consider ASL as a foreigner language credit so it's as if they never even took a language. So frustrating.
That's awesome! Do you know which sign language they'll be learning? ASL would be American sign language, but you noted you're Australian (I'm assuming that's what you meant to note), so are they still being taught American Sign Language, or is it Australian Sign Language, or another one? I'm just curious, in all honesty.
But, she’s literally saying she isn’t fluent and is learning. She’s just showing what she took from class like with any other language and them being a language learner. It helps reinforce what they’ve learned and Introduces someone else to it in a way like, “see, don’t think you can’t if I can even though I didn’t grow up learning it or need it the same way.” All one has to do is look at her full journey or know where she’s from I think there’s nothing wrong. Literally is fine with every language
What?!? Im deaf, and only 13x and find no problem with this, she is NOT teaching!!!! She specifically stated how shes not teaching and is ASKING for modifications!!! What?!?
i think the problem isn't her teaching others when she isn't fluent herself, there are lots of accounts like that for vocal languages too for tracking progress and getting in contact with other language learners, but that apparently she teaches it wrong and won't correct her mistakes but continues to spread wrong information.
It doesn't sound like those tracking progress & practicing are teaching tho. the teaching actually IS part of the problem, with or without disclaimers, she has no qualifications to teach ASL.
The teaching is the problem i know her and its with no malice intent what she is doin its a hobby for her just as guitar is to me we both suck and will get better she is too young for all this backlash still in grade school lmao i think it’s hilarious but she has no formal training or credentials to teach and that wasnt even her aim just somthing it turned into
the teaching is the problem. accounts that are for tracking progress don't teach. when i post korean speaking videos i'm doing that to track progress or get feedback, which is clearly not what lola is doing.
@@montananerd8244Qualifications or the lack of them is less of an issue than claiming to be an authority on a language when you're actually contradicting a recognized authority.
@@Baritone-qd2jj If she's so young she can't handle the consequences of her arrogance and entitlement, then her parents need to take away and delete her social media accounts. But they're probably making money off of her if they've been as viral aa other people have shown. This is why children shouldn't be on social media, certainly not alone.
Sometimes teaching is the best way to learn! I've told my Spanish teacher about how I teach my sister what I learn in class, and she says that teaching others can help you learn too!
Teaching as the final part is actually a known learning model. Someone shows you, you do it (then do it well) then teach it. It allegedly locks it into your brain better.
This content creator is presenting new signs language. An actual deaf person is telling you that her signs are incorrect. Her audience will then use these signs to communicate with deaf people. If I was deaf I would feel that this person is mocking my language.
My sister teaches deaf/hard of hearing kids. She said one of the hardest parts of ASL is how incredibly localized the signs can be. If that’s the case, I imagine trying to learn from *anyone* online isn’t going to work.
Local dialects. Lot of signs are recognized all over but different towns were separate and often learned different signs for thing. I lived in upstate NY, drove one hour to Poughkeepsie to work, or drove East for an hour and in Hartford Conn. the signs had variances! 2 hours apart and different signs. Some a fairly standardized, but You can't teach bike racing if you're still on training wheels.
Maybe that's true. I have a deaf person in my family. He is over 60 so he communicates pretty well without ASL to hearing people when he needs to. He reads lips and mouths answers....for a long time I got apps on my phone, learning a word a day. I was truly trying to learn ASL. When I would sign things like "bowl to him or certain family members like cousin or in law...he would just nod
You can learn online. Several of the people I subscribe to will do a couple of variations, and have warned that it might vary where you live, and to check with your local Deaf community. Within the Deaf community, I imagine that someone using a different sign for McDonald's (for example) is probably not unheard of, but the person seeing it would know what was meant. Much in the same way as when someone asks for a soda/pop in an area where the word they are using is less prevalent. Or that when someone from the deep south of the US speaks to you, you understand what they are saying, even if the accent is really thick and they say things like "warsh" instead of "wash".
as someone who is trying to learn ASL to be able to communicate better with a deaf friend, I found Lola’s account & thought it was really cool that she was breaking ASL down into easy to learn signs that I could quickly pick up. but I had no idea all the (unfortunately deserved) backlash she was getting from the deaf community; all of which is very valid & I wish I had known sooner! thanks, especially to your videos Liz, I unfollowed her on all my accounts! I hope to find more and more deaf content creators like you to have as much exposure to ASL as possible. ❤️
@@chichichichichichiOwO There was this Girl who used to do awesome music videos in ASL she'd play the song and sign to the song, and they were right but she had the I love you sign in asl for a t-shirt with her name... The deaf community OBLITERATED her channel and spread the most vial things about her and she quit because of the stress, they literally told her she can't sell any merch with sign language because she wasn't deaf while at the same time claiming they were not "gatekeeping" SPREADING the language is BEAUTIFUL, Its not the deaf community as a whole at all though, It was younger generation and what they called "deaf twitter" but they still were able to spread , meanwhile the deaf who watch her channel WERE SO SAD, they tried to convince her over and over that she should not get bullied and that no one has a free pass to bully others, regardless of what you have, there is a way to treat people. She was really popular so this was not a small amount of deaf or hard of hearing people telling her they loved it and bought her merch, Not that this situation is the same, But t'm weary of these stories because usually it isn't as bad, But... even then... its just someone trying to show what she learned, And i can gaurentee the people who are upset didn't handle it right and were probably very very harsh instead of saying, It's wrong, please don't teach.
Really late but I went to her channel. Almost all her content is her showing a new sign she learned. She’s not meant to teach anyone nor is it her goal. Her trying to learn sign and documenting her small growth isn’t taking away from the deaf community, she’s trying to learn. People are choosing to learn/listen to them because there aren’t a lot of free or accessible ASL teachings
3rd as a dancer, where people will learn for like 3 months and start trying to teach, telling everybody that everyone else with 20+ years of exp is wrong 🙃
I’m a deaf guy and I agree I have had to correct people that have learned a SL this way and when I’ve asked them where did you learn this from? They have cited places like this and I said well they got it wrong.
That's what we should do to anyone learning a language. If they don't speak it right, tell them they're wrong every chance we get. Then we can get real upset when we don't feel included.
I wish I was fluent but don't have anyone to sign with. I do teach some sign with my young students - is that ok even though I'm not fluent? I would love your input...thanks!
Yeah I agree with you. As someone who’s first language was ASL (but still hearing) I would never teach something like that online. It’s just not right. The only reason I was taught asl was bc my mom is deaf. Now I’ll teach it to a friend but not to a large mass online, it’s just not right.
why is it not right to teach it online? only asking cause lots of people teach spoken languages online so I'm curious why it's not right to teach sign language online. im genuinely asking btw in case you can't tell
@@LethalLemonLime I'm only guessing that maybe because sign language is so nuanced - you have different versions of sign language (eg ASL, BSL etc) as well as regional differences. Plus hand and head placement and facial expression is so important that things could easily be misconstrued online. Plus you wouldn't have the benefit of the teacher correcting you in real time.
@@angelicMisha With there being so many different dialects just in ASL then why is this girl throwing a hissy fit over another person showing signs they have learned? How do any of you know its not a different dialect? Lizzie CONSTANTLY signs the wrong words in almost every video. But no one questions her because why? She claims to not hear anything at all yet has hearing aids? She makes vidoes about Starbucks employees signing words wrong and vidoes saying how she writes down her orders and if someone tries to talk to her she puts her hand up and points to her ears. She can hear!!! She likes the attention of causing a scene so she can make videos about it. She is hard of hearing NOT deaf. She has hearing aids and can hear. I know plenty of deaf people, my brother included and have been signing most of my life. She is putting on an act and pretending to be completely deaf when shes not.
@@Justme-jh6uuthat’s not the point… she’s completely deaf in one ear and mostly deaf in the other (I BELIEVE, I very much could be thinking of another creator), so no, she is not 100% deaf in both ears, but VERY MUCH hard of hearing. That’s not attention seeking you dippy dope, that is legit her group, she is apart of that community. The hearing aids only help so much… she cannot hear that well with hearing aids. Hearing aids usually suck ass man, especially the worse your hearing is. She cannot hear. Of course she writes her orders down in order to communicate, because she doesn’t know what they’re saying 100%, she can only make an educated guess. Of course she shares her experiences with Starbucks baristas who sign incorrectly, SHES A DEAF CONTENT CREATOR 😭 her whole shtick is talking about HER EXPERIENCES and HER LIFE, and when people ask questions like “how do you order at a drive through?” She answers them from her own personal experiences. Cmon dawg no way you know that many deaf people and are pressed she’s not 100% fucking deaf, that’s just fucking stupid. She’s still apart of the deaf community. She’s not hiding shit or seeking attention by claiming she’s fully deaf 💀
This is why I'm so scared to learn ASL. I once tried to use what I learned when talking to a deaf couple at work and they made fun of me. She definitely shouldn't be teaching but I do think trying to use ASL in day-to-day life can be kind of beneficial but one bad experience can ruin someone's desire to learn.
That type of deaf people are a menace honestly. "Lol ur bad at sign language" okay then I just wont learn, if you're going to be an ass about it. Screw me for putting in effort. Get used to bringing a pen and paper everywhere because I'm not learning your language then if you're going to be a jerk.
Exactly. Sharing parts of what you've learned is natural. People learning a spoken language do this too, they'll want to show people what they've learned, even if they're not fluent yet. If a whole community then sh*ts on you for publicly daring to show off what you've learned because you're not immediately perfect and fluent... that's a great way to make sure that person an a LOT of other people will never ever learn that language at all. Imagine someone's trying to learn English and they upload a video of their progress, and then a bunch of native English speakers tell them _"How dare you speak English, you're doing it wrong, you're not even fluent. What if someone sees this and learns English wrong from your video. You're terrible!"_ Now that person is probably going to stop learning English and anyone else that sees that reaction isn't going to try either. Good job.
I work in pharmacies. Years ago a deaf person came up with his hearing friend. I noted the name and when it was ready I used finger spelling to 'call' his name. He was so happy it made me grateful I knew that little. Languages are my weak point, I barely passed both English and French GCSE, and learning sign seems to be an in-person thing, but I often wish I could manage to learn BSL
The thing is though shes just sharing her journey, shes not trying to teach, although i do see that it looks like it, plus she always says 'today i *learned* '
@@be3p it's implying she learned *a* sign, it may not be the right one. It's like in languages, depending on who you get taught by means you may be taught the wrong thing, speaking from experience.
@@megxme_She literally encouraged people to send hate to those politely correcting her signs in the comments to the point it led to death threats against those people. When confronted with this, she blatantly ignored it and continued playing the victim. She lied about being a fluent interpreter to gain an opportunity to sign the national anthem at sporting events
@@ahmadalimi9784 if thats true wheres the proof and why didn't this content creator not say that? because I think that's the worse thing out of all this then "shes showing people what she learned"
@chichichichichichiOwO lol google it. Also, the content creator still said that she was spreading misinformation, not just showing what shes learned. It doesn't matter if she means to, but there are impressionable people using her videos as a form of learning for sign language, and she does not do her due diligence in making sure her signs are accurate. Furthermore, in the comments of her videos she replies to people that say that they "learn with her," and does not actively discourage them from kearning from her despite being a novice, young girl or not when you have a large platform it is your responsibility to make sure you do not spread misinformation-especially if there are several others who have clarified that you are doing so. The first time it was a mistake, the second an accident but the third, fourth, fifth time it is her responsibility to make sure that she is careful about the signs she uses to make sure they are accurate. As a hearing person who does not use sign language as tgeur primary language, this form of misinformation does not affect her, but it does affect actual deaf/HOH people. Again, this is just one of her minor offenses, but you are misrepresenting the situation and making it seem like she is a victim. SHE IS IN THE WRONG.
There is a bit of a trade off between not teaching Sign language and helping more people take up sign language. Also, teaching signs as a student helps your reinforce what you have learnt and lets other around you be more understanding of sign languages. Many people have never met a Deaf person and surely a hearing person teaching them a few signs (as long as they are correct) is better than them knowing nothing if they do meet one in the future. That been said if you do teach, you are responsible for teaching the language correctly and you should not try to go beyond your level. Maybe having a disclaimer or using primary sources (with actual native speakers/Deaf people) would be best.
I feel like what she should have done is instead do updates about what she has learned and show the new signs she knows but instead of it being to teach people it would be to confirm if the signs are correct so she could have a ton of people from the community coach her. So rather than “sign of the day” it would be “new sign I learned today.” A small distinction but it completely changes the intent and instead makes it a wholesome learning experience.
I really appreciated the videos of you signing to songs. I was so inspired that after you posted a list of resources to learn, so I did. Now, asl is not for me? I am not fluent in my native language but I always appreciate it when people ask me how to say words or try to practice with me because I know that they’re just trying to relate to me.
Languages are often taught by incompletely fluent people. Part of the fun is trying it out and saying something ridiculous. But trying is better than just not communicating. If some girl is teaching wrong signs, just comment. We all know to check the comments.
i took my first year of asl in high school from a coda, then the second year was from a hearing person, but i think she did a really good job! she puts a huge emphasis on deaf culture and respecting those apart of it. she often reminds us that if we ever get the chance to talk to someone who is deaf, we need to be happy to take feedback from them and keep in mind that they are native to asl and we aren’t.
I don’t know if I fully agree. We let older high school students tutor younger high school students in subjects they too are still learning. I know my first introduction to ASL was from Chella Man a deaf person who isn’t fluent in ASL (by their own words). Obviously teaching things incorrectly is harmful, but I don’t have an issue with someone at an intermediate level teaching some basics.
If I'm understanding right what your saying is if she was like " I just learned this sign to day I'm not a teacher don't learn from me" like I do when I post any little bit of ASL on tt like the M-A-M-A B-O-Y thing
I'm from Germany and quite a lot of my English teachers were only semi fluent. It wasn't that uncommon that my English was actually better than the teacher's and one of them just flat out told me that I would probably do a better job at teaching English than her. I was flattered, but tbh I have no idea how to deal with teenagers so probably not. Bless that teacher though, her classes were fun. I just helped her out whenever she forgot a word or wasn't sure about something ^^
What's not being acknowledged is that fluency is a spectrum. I think it's fair to say that a beginner should be wary of teaching teaching, but people who are intermediate... If you say they can't teach even complete beginners, I'd say that's gatekeeping and reducing the amount of resources out there 🤷 Like it's fine if you think they should disclose that info, but straight out saying they shouldn't is wrong imho
and this content creator isn't fluent herself. it takes years upon years of constant use of a language to be considered "fluent" and she has like 3 years.
I'm not trying to be rude. but I'm confused why their is such a stigma in the deaf community with people who aren't deaf teaching ASL. When I was learning Spanish I would learn from non native speakers all the time.
She was showing it in a way that a person who teaches ASL would do it. But the problem is that she's doing it incorrectly and showing other people to do the same. I believe now she just shows her learning process, but she used to do something different. This video is old, so don't think that it applies to the present.
Girly… she literally claimed she was fluent, calling those who politely corrected her “haters” and accused them of faking being deaf/HOH. This resulted in those politely correcting her receiving death threats.
@@ZoZoZoeee That's not true. The result can be damaging if someone takes it the wrong way. It had nothing to do with the person's intentions. If I post a video about how to shoot a gun when you go hunting and someone uses that knowledge to kill a person, I am not responsible for that result. It was my intention to make a hunting video.
Absolutely. Where I live, the sign language is called Auslan, not ASL, but you're right that the principle applies everywhere. Let the Deaf Community be the teachers.
@user-we5pd7ds5o. yh i think everyone who knows about sign language knows that sign language is different in every country BSL ASL are prolly the most popular (well on my feed idk)
no cause this video is harmful towards the girl herself. shes just showing people what shes learned and a majority of her videos she starts with "this is what I learned today" shes going to get things wrong cause shes learning and shes literally not teaching. its fine to say what she signed was wrong because she needs to know cause.....shes learning. that page is actually more like a journal
I honestly dont think theres any issue with this based on the context of your video. If someone posts a "what i learn in a day learning spanish" or anything else for that matter even if its wrong its not technically teaching. Thats on the viewers for trying to learn from her when shes stated its not meant for teaching purposes
I want you to imagine that you are scrolling through shorts and you see me and I say: "Todays latin word of the day is Paterfamilias! this means brother" I taught you something didn't I? *That's teaching* even if "technically" it is not in it's traditional form. Also it's wrong because Paterfamilias means head of the household
@@vortexwriting1026 okay except she didn't do that, her whole page is about HER learning. if it triggers you that someone is learning and they get something wrong (BECAUSE THEY ARE LEARNING) then correct them (nicely) then move on.
I am glad that there are people in the Deaf community that are more accepting of hearing people learning ASL. I took a semester of it in college, and the professor was a CODA and was a gatekeeper, despite being an instructor to (in the case of my class) hearing people. Within the week (when we were doing fingerspelling; a thing I was already EXCELLENT at), she loudly and harshly criticized my "screeching" E in front of the whole class, and said hearing people kept doing it wrong, etc then was like "WHO TAUGHT YOU THAT?" and when I responded, "My Deaf aunt," it took the wind out of her sails. Needless to say, she did not like me, and her subsequent treatment caused me to give up ASL learning until recently. (Note: My aunt is Deaf, but she and my uncle divorced when I was 7 and she and my cousin--who were fluent--moved away, so I never got to learn more).
With internet everyone can be a teacher which opens new opportunities but also new dangers. Had a teachers at literally school that knew about their subject even less than that, so it's not smth new. Spreading awareness and being careful with learning resources is the best what we can do
i can understand people wanting to learn, because i do that. I came home after a concert where they had an interpreter and showed my sister a new sign I learned that night watching them. Sunrise. Because i thought the sign was really cool. I learned a sign from a professional interpreter and passed it on because i thought it was neat. That's one thing. But I don't sit here and pretend I actually know what i'm doing, because i don't. I'm still learning. I just like sharing things that I think are cool. The problem is people acting like they know things when they don't. Then you're just spreading bad information that hurts the whole community. And when people give you feedback, freaking TAKE IT. I would LOVE to have a deaf person/coda/professional interpreter in my life who could correct any mistakes I was making so that I knew i was getting things right. That would be amazing. Because it's a lot harder to UNLEARN incorrect things than it is to learn it the right way the first time. That's a serious problem. And taking advantage of a whole community just to get a following is really crappy.
As a hearing person with ties to Deaf community, I'd love to watch a channel that was designed to video conference with the Deaf. Live corrections, captions, showing what it is really like to learn ASL. I don't know what the Deaf community would think of such a channel and their input is more relevant than mine. One of the biggest concerns I've seen is the distaste for hearing people profiting from the Deaf, so if someone did start such a channel, I'd recommend proceeds be donated to a Deaf charity of choice.
My sister has been teaching me English starting when she was 6 years old and I was 2. She had just begun learning it at school. 4 years later when I started at school I was nearly fluent. It gave me such a boost, by the time I was 10 my English was as good as my first language. What she is doing is sharing her learning journey. It's like when you explain a math problems to a classmate and it's more comprehensible then what the prof was teaching. Being taught by someone around your own level is a great technique for learning. Something that I teach (and am also qualified to teach) is finswimming. I had a kid, that just wouldn't learn how to dive straight down. Tried everything. Then another kid noticed and shared that he learned to do handstands in the shallow water first and that helped him to dive. I learned that 18 years ago, for me it just 'feels natural' but someone who just learned it can help with the tips that helped them. And my last point is: Don't gatekeep. It won't do you any good.
I think the issue here is that ASL is a language of an often overlooked and under-supported minority, and that having someone act as an authority on the language when they are not can harm the efforts of the community. However I agree that gatekeeping should be limited and hearing people learning ASL properly should be supported!
But there also seems to be dialect/accent (?) differences in ASL. I took a year of ASL in college in the Northwest and had a handful of deaf/HoH friends but when I moved to the Southeast, a lot of signs I'd learned were not the same in the southeastern dialect/accent of ASL. Don't mean to play devils advocate but that has been my experience and maybe it's similar for her? Either way I agree she shouldn't be teaching and she should definitely be listening to the deaf community's opinions about what she's doing with their language!
I had this experience, too. Except mine was a difference between the Texas panhandle and central Texas. I was told I signed the wrong sign for a word by a Deaf person and his wife. It was such a small difference that it was basically an accent. But I guess since I was a student, they didn't consider that I could be right but from a different accent/dialect.
I agree, and it’s so sad. I’m learning ASL so I can speak to family members I have in the deaf community and in class the most important things we learn is to not “teach” because we aren’t fluent. And it’s so horrible because we want to break the language barrier not build more walls. It’s ok to teach if you’re fluent but not if your spreading misinformation
The way I was taught is that you should use your dominant hand for most signs especially when it comes to sign that involve movement but I went on tik tok and someone asked a girl that was “teaching” ASL which hand they should use and she said it didn’t matter. And then she was teaching sentence structure for ex: I was taught to sign “your name what’s?” When signing i ASL But she was teaching it as “what’s your name” the way we would speak it in English. This is when I discovered that hearing people who are learning sign are out here teaching other people sign. It’s so hard to trust accounts when I actually want to LEARN. I only follow a few people now Bill vicars , ASL Meredith and learn to sign. Those 3 accounts have helped me learn sign and sentence structure which is what I struggle with from switching to English to ASL .
Both are technically correct. I have to sign with my non-dominant hand acting as the dominant hand while signing. I'm right hand dominant but experience intense chronic pain from a broken wrist that didn't heal properly. My right wrist cannot take the strain from signing, so I have to relearn as a left handed signer. The signs are the same no matter which hand is used as dominant. For most hearing people, it is ideal to have the dominant signing hand be the normally dominant hand. When we don't use sign language for all of our communication, we don't build the same muscle strength the Deaf do. Our dominant hands have more muscle strength, especially for fine motor movements, than our non-dominant hands. It ultimately doesn't matter, but it can be a little confusing when signing switches from right dominant to left and back again.
Also, "what's your name?" would be Signed Exact English or SEE sign which is closer to what Lizzy does. ASL and English grammar don't allow for speaking and signing simultaneously. Can't comment on her qualifications to teach SEE sign, but happy to share that not all signed language in the US looks the same. SEE sign is not it's own language; it has English grammar and ASL signs.
@Julie Kalbakk Jørgensen Does the mirroring matter? When you sign doesn't each person use the side they prefer. I thought I had learned that. Thatrillright
I know you said its not enough, but if shes been consistent about just sharing her OWN learning journey, then people should be able to tell shes not teaching it, just showing words that shes learning. i feel like a more tactful response would be to inform her that her words are wrong, and how to speak ASL better without making a whole tiktok on it.
I have a deaf neighbor that helps me learn some things and I must say it is more helpful to learn from the real deal than a video. also girl I love your nails!!! ❤️
I was never taught, as hearing person with Deaf colleagues, to depend on specific signs, but to approach ASL as a whole body language. when you are in communication space with someone, their face is still your #1 cue for language meaning. I know a bazillion sign, but I am not fast enough in comprehension to be useful lol. just learning static signs does not equal knowing ASL. and asl etiquette matters A LOT, if you don't know cultural norms, you can embarrass yourself badly (it's been 30 yrs, I still am mad at myself lol).
A person who is not fluent CAN absolutely teach an language as long as they do not exceed their knowledge limit. I can teach, and have taught, BEGINNING French, Spanish, and ASL, even though I'm not fully fluent in any of them. Should someone hire me over a fluent person, all other factors (teaching experience, availability, salary required, etc.) being equal? No.
My nan has been deaf for 5 years now and ever since then I have been taking courses online made by deaf people, and there are many channels that I have watched that are deaf people and it is so helpful ❤ I’m currently learning Shot gun from George Ezra in sign, I never trust learning from hearing people
Maybe I'm missing context but there are plenty of language RUclipsrs sharing their learning journeys and practicing speaking broken, nonfluent languages. There's nothing wrong with that. You yourself said she discloses that she's not teaching. She's just trying her best to learn and sharing her progress. If she's representing herself as an expert authority on ASL, that's one thing but what you described just sounds like she's sharing herself learning something. People do that all the time with languages, skills, hobbies, etc
I have no knowledge on this person (either one) but they're saying the other one is teaching things incorrectly. Assuming that's true, she should stop. I don't care that it fosters a community, it'll be fostered around incorrect information. I've seen this in amateurs attempting to teach my second language, and even fluency doesn't necessarily mean teaching is a good idea.
okay but she is teaching… she shows her followers new signs of the day and most of them are wrong. that’s literally teaching… there’s a difference between sharing your journey and showing your followers your incorrect signs.
I don’t see anything wrong with someone sharing what they are learning especially if they are being clear that they are still learning and not a teacher. I hope that anyone seriously looking to learn a new language goes to a credible source when learning and doesn’t use another student as their main source of information. However, I have heard the idea in the deaf community that only deaf people or codas (children of deaf adults) can teach and I think anyone who is fluent should be welcomed to teach and share what they know. People like Lola may be doing damage by perpetuating some incorrect signs, but there are many resources for people seriously interested in ASL to go a check if these signs are correct. It would be great if she added credible sources for her signs in her description so people could go learn from those sources/ teachers. I also think that Lola’s videos may expose new people to ASL and might make them consider joining a class or checking out things like Bill Vicars videos. I think that exposure to ASL can help to make ASL more ubiquitous which can help break down communication barriers between the hearing a deaf community which I think is a good thing for everyone.
@@meg7865 on paper this argument works. But as somebody who went and learned ASL from Deaf people at school, i completely agree with others opinion that she should stop. The main reason ( to me) is bc Deaf people from the community have asked this of hearing people over and over again. Like any minority that has been oppressed and silenced for so long, I deeply believe it’s our job to do what they ask instead of disregarding their requests bc we think we know better. There are many specific reasons a Deaf person or ASL interpreter should be the one teaching. For example, learning signs isn’t just about language, a ton of culture is tied up in ASL, that a newbie wouldn’t understand and would be wrongfully representing( this has gone on for hundreds of years) Deaf/deaf ( do you even know the difference?) people don’t have access to many of the jobs and social currency that that hearing people do, in large part bc hearing society vastly overlooks Deaf people for jobs, ( including teaching and interpretation) and this RUclips creator is def falling into that camp. It’s just soooo much better to learn ASL from a native signer or interpreter. I could go on and on but I highly encourage you to learn more on this topic from Deaf people as they are the authorities as well as the ones effected by situations like this.
Yes everyone please learn ASL from a deaf person Liz you have teached me so much asl im so grateful I found your channel your so cute and Smart thank you so much 💗
Learning about ASL as a hearing person, honestly I’m just glad instead of having to rely on people who do awful things like these I have a mentor whom actually is connected with the community being a child of a deaf adult
There's a wonderful website I found that shows you the variations to certain words, like some people prefer to finger spelling short words, it also shows different ways for the same word depending on it's use in the sentence, if I find it again, I'd love to share
I have a cousin who is deaf, I’m definitely not great at ASL, we do long signing because I know the alphabet so when I get stuck I just sign out what I’m trying to say and then she’ll show me a better sign for what I’m trying to say, it’s not easy for sure but having a good teacher is a MUST if you want to be able to communicate better using ASL, luckily she’s very patient with us and will teach us anything we wanna know
I have been watching you for a long time.... and you showed videos when you were learning.... I mean people even complained and you made a similar response. ..
Non-fluent signers teaching ASL incorrectly reminds me of the time my first French teacher, an American who learned French as a second language while traveling abroad in college, taught me that the French word for "excited" is "exciteé" and I learned a year later that it actually means horny and I had basically been saying for months that I was horny for everything. That's why I believe languages should be taught only by native speakers/signers whenever possible.
I don’t think you need to be a native speaker to teach. I just think you need to be at a level where you are fluent and understand enough of the nuances. Non-natives can be great teachers because they had to learn the language as a second language too and that helps them understand rules. People who speak as a native don’t always know how to explain why a word is used or grammar rules. Because they just use the language naturally and know when something sounds awkward. If that makes sense.
@@laurenmiller4824 yup also some natives won't learn the language of the place they teach in like my mandarin teacher 😭 like please learn our language instead of yapping while our whole class try to understand
How can a person whose learning know whether or not they're learning the right thing? I had a friend who bought a sign language book so he could learn to communicate with his deaf friend but his deaf friend told him almost everything in the book is wrong...
Im a adult that was in an accident and lost my hearing now your my favorite RUclipsrs cause your one if the only ones who don’t hate asl or other kinds of sl😊im also happy because I haven’t learned asl fully yet and you out sub’s
As an ASL learner, I agree with you that folks who aren't fluent shouldn't be teaching on social media. However, as a parent who isn't fluent but has mild to moderately deaf children who had significant speech delays as toddlers and wear hearing aids now as young adults, I think that teaching my children signs I knew was important even though I wasn't fluent. I homeschool my youngest and I teach her signs I know just like I teach her Spanish words that I know. If I used not being fully fluent as an excuse to not share that knowledge with my kids, they'd know a lot less ASL and a lot less Spanish. I think the difference is that when it's something I don't know, I say I don't know and we look it up together. I never pretend to know, guess, or make stuff up, and I don't broadcast my attempts at ASL on any social media or represent myself as an interpreter. I'm just saying please don't discourage parents from trying to teach their kids ASL.
I am a hearing mother to a Deaf little girl. My experience has been that the Deaf community delights in hearing parents giving their deaf children access to visual language. Here in Utah, we had a Deaf mentor for my daughter for 3 years when she was young, before school age. One of the most encouraging things she taught me is that it is more important that my daughter have access to language than being completely accurate in ASL. Many families have home signs, things that are signed differently between family in a household because they develop organically -- parents learning ASL do their best, occasionally sign something inconsistent with ASL, and then it sticks. Children with access to ASL education will eventually learn the difference between home signs and ASL much like children who speak one language at home and another at school do, except with great overlap as parents have started the foundation. For children who will use technology to be schooled in mainstream classes, the most important thing now is access to language to develop the pathways in the brain primed to learn languages in early childhood. This might look like teaching earliest teachers a few of the signs from home to know what their student needs when the student is stressed. Please don't feel discouraged. This isn't directed at our situation.
I feel like someone needs to find out what school she attends to learn asl and let her teacher know she's doing this to intervene because it's blatant misinformation
I agree that what she's doing is not okay and she should stop and apologize, but finding out which school she attends and invading her privacy like that seems like too much
@@shes_tired she wont listen to anyone else, and shes getting the signs wrong on top of teaching which is a big deal. also calling yourself an interpreter when you’re not is actually illegal so im all for contacting her teacher. there needs to be repercussions for this behaviour.
@@shes_tired one of the first things taught when learning asl is about deaf culture and how the number one thing you shouldn't do as someone learning is upload videos of yourself signing for the public because it spreads misinformation. I'm not saying we all need to know where she lives or something, I said someone needs to inform the teacher, for example a peer of hers. Where someone goes to public school isn't really private information and I don't know if it should be if you're going to be spreading around misinformation and directly harming the deaf community. And if it were a college class then it should even more be brought to light. These things are not just something annoying, it's detrimental to the deaf community because it's harder to unlearn something than to learn it in the first place. If she was spreading around misinformation about autism or ADHD as a medical student, you would want that reported to the school. It's the same thing. Is deaf and HOH people have it hard enough as is, we don't need this shit being perpetuated so that this girl can make money off of brand deals on her misinformation. And you can look at her page, almost every other video is a brand deal, so she's not innocent or something.
Um yeah no, it is in fact private information where she goes to school unless she shares it. I want her to stop too but this goes too far. Everyone deserves human rights like the right to privacy, even if they're being an asshole on the internet
Sharing a word you're learning in a new language every day is something I've seen before as a way to improve. So I checked it out and there's nothing to suggest she's not teaching. It's really not hard to be a respectful beginner whether it's a sign language or not...
I'm trying to learn BSL online, using a source from the Deaf community and one of the first things I learned was "Sorry, I'm still learning" and "I don't know that sign" 😂
you shouldn't be teaching ANY language unless you are fluent and idk why this logic flies out the window when it comes to ASL! people need to be more respectful of the language.
How do you define fluent? It’s not a switch that flips. I speak a number of languages, but I wouldn’t call myself fluent in anything except English. That doesn’t mean that I don’t know enough to teach some concepts or words/phrases.
@@bella11110 I’m aware of the many different language tests that exist. I’ve even taken several, myself. However, fluency is an abstract concept in language learning and ASL tends to gate-keep who can and cannot teach, which is something that doesn’t occur in any other language that I’ve studied. I’ve found that hostility to be very off-putting. I fail to see the problem with a person who isn’t fluent helping to introduce someone to a new language. For example, I know several native Chinese speakers who have helped me learn, even though they wouldn’t be able to pass HSK Level 6, themselves. Additionally, language learners who are not yet fluent have a different perspective on language that may be beneficial to new speakers. I’ve been speaking Spanish for 16 years. I wouldn’t say that I’m fluent, but I’d like to think that I know enough to teach someone how to say please and thank you. There’s nothing wrong with wanting people to stay within their limits, with regards to teaching language, but requiring fluency is ridiculous.
it would be awesome if you could show us some basic ASL signs, because I feel like other people would want to learn from you also. only if you want to tho. love you and your vids
I just searched it bc I love fresh tea, and she is indeed teaching. Personally as someone that learned a language I would understand someone posting words they learned that day for motivation. But at the same time... no she isn't making it clear that she is a learner besides her non fluent signing 😂
But what is her fault is ttying to teach others, especially to continue doing so after deaf people have told her numerous times that what she is signing is wrong.
@@abigailberhow5228 yes we can, because in all of her videos it's people telling her what she's signing is wrong. Why are you trying to defend an obviously ignorant person?
@@abigailberhow5228 nowhere was I dramatic nor was I rude. I asked you a question, that's all. I appreciate what you're trying to do but if someone has told you the way that both sides is I don't know why you would argue. Especially if the proof is readily available to you.
I've seen people tweeting about her for too long now! Can't believe she's still talking over the deaf/hard of hearing community. Shared both these. Solidarity from the disabled community ✊🏻
As a hearing person, even I feel weird that she'd do this. It's like teaching a med student how to perform a surgery when you are a med student yourself. You don't have the necessary knowledge to teach. I hope she stops.
@@Am_._ right, me too!! You don’t let someone in driving lessons teach their friend to drive and you don’t let someone who can only make sandwiches and eggs teach someone to cook so how is this any better??
As part of the "disabled community" I see much, not all, but a lot of this as political correctness crap. I agree she shouldn't be teaching, but this girl in this video isn't fluent or straight ASL either.
@@MusicInMotion_67 What a fitting name you have.
@@MusicInMotion_67 she's almost fluent though. She's been learning ASL since high school and she's in college now. She also knows how to sign correctly. Also she's not teaching ASL lmao
If she's learning it she should be saying like "I learnt this sign today, let me know if I'm doing anything wrong, thanks!" or something like that.
She does start a good deal of her videos by signing and captioning "today I learned" followed by the word of the day. Not all of her content includes this, but a decent chunk of it does.
@@taylspin It should say that on all of them if she's going to post, especially when people get random videos on their feed. I just went to her page and clicked on a random video. All the script says is "Your beautiful in Sign Language #educational #americansignlanguage #asl #learninglanguages" and she signed it wrong. That's not okay. All she's doing is spreading misinformation.
I thought she was originally doing it to show what she learnt to but spreading misinformation is so dangerous
Yes!
For real, so simple.
I stopped learning ASL because I couldn't find a learning channel on RUclips or local place to learn.
While my son was speach delayed because of hearing issues.
We put together signs to communicate.
Now he can hear after surgery.
And now I am going deaf. These types of things terrify me and stop me from learning.
Hi! Bill Vicars is an amazing RUclips Channel that most people learn from, also the Oklahoma School of Deaf has free ASL lessons for ASL 1 and ASL 2! You got this, and I wish you well
Thank you both
I’m sorry if I’m misunderstanding but I get if she’s just flat out wrong when “teaching” those signs but is there anything wrong with just teaching a sign in general like I get that the way ASL is structured is wayyyyyyy different than English language but if I’m not fluent I’m not allowed to teach someone a new word?
@@WillZak_official yes, hearing people should not teach period. we cannot understand as much as a deaf person does, and due to the oppression we hearing people did to deaf people, they rather non deaf or hard or hearing people not teach ASL
@@WillZak_official showing someone a new word is different i believe because you are showing a whole crowd it, and they probably will forget anyways but you should never be offering services whatsoever
It'd be so easy to reframe a video like that as "The sign I learned today" and then sign it with its translation (even add a 'let me know if I made any mistakes' or something). It'd be just as effective as what she's doing
Yes I agree, when I was trying to learn sign to communicate with my deaf sister, I had her help me and give feedback so I could be fluent and be able to “talk” to her at any time she needed or wanted to.
Wow
Ur a great sibling ur heart is on the right place ☺️
Wow, you are a great sibling! ❤❤
That's great! Siblings and children of the deaf are amazing learners and more fluid signers love this for you and ur sis
There it is. The best way to learn ASL is from a deaf person or at least someone who is actually fluent.
I agree so much as a person learning ASL our teacher told us that one of the most important things was not to teach signs online.
teaching a person in real life is one thing. You're there and you can correct their mistakes, show them how to fix things, etc. But you can't do that online. You can't even control what people do with the information you put out there. So if you're not a professional, you have no place "teaching" that stuff at all.
It's the same way I feel about people teaching others medical info online. I work in the medical field, and the amount of crap i see online that is just plain wrong is staggering. And that crap is just plain dangerous.
Yeah, that was one of the first things I got told as well. I get wanting to show that you are learning, and I do show friends when I learn a fun new sign or something I am proud of. HOWEVER, I do this in private with showing the official Dutch sign language dictionary and telling that I am not yet fluent.
I want to learn the deaf culture, so to be told that this damages the community would be enough to don't do this. Not nice of Lola, clearly a lack of respect.
@my college that tried to do zoom asl classes in 2020
@@amanday3103you’ve misunderstood. The rule is for the people taking the class not to then teach the signs online. The actual proper teachers can
@@M_SC It's a general consensus that hearing people shouldn't teach sign languages. Period. It's not just about the language, it's a mother language of a minority and needs to be taught with regard to the deaf culture. None of us hearing people have that first-hand experience. Not to mention it's taking away the job opportunities for deaf sign language teachers as most people prefer the easier option of a teacher who can communicate in your language, minimizing your own effort... I quit my voluntary weekly czech sign language lesson for this and want to learn it properly later when i find a deaf teacher someday.
Important to note:
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO KNOW EVERY SINGLE WORD IN A LANGUAGE TO BE FLUENT!!!!
my hard of hearing sign language teacher has been learning sign for 25+ years and teaching it for 6+ years. She was hard of hearing since birth. That doesn’t mean she knows every single sign to exist. She knows *most* of them. I will occasionally ask her about a sign that she doesn’t know. THAT IS OKAY! My other deaf sign language teacher runs into the same situation. He has been deaf since birth. He also occasionally does not know a sign that we ask him about. THAT IS OK!!! once again, fluency does not equal perfection.
Not to mention it’s a living language that’s evolving and has different regional signs! No one is going to know it all. I asked my deaf and coda instructor if there was a sign for bouldering separate from rock climbing and he wasn’t sure and asked some friends! Always great to have a teacher who’s willing to admit “I don’t know”
@@jacquelynchin5513 absolutely! Living languages are always changing! Hearing people that speak English (or any other language as well) don’t always know every word! There will be things that you don’t know! The important thing is to not pretend like you are an expert.
WT heck are you even doing with this comment?? The point of the video is a non-hearing impaired person teaching INCORRECT signs as if she knows what she’s talking about. Not only is she pulling from the actual community and people who do know how to sign accurately. She’s able to monetize that attention. She should be called out so people are aware of the inaccuracy and misrepresentation
Fluency in a language is having a vocabulary of at least 5,000 words, and the ability to properly execute the grammar and syntax of that language as we’ll as understanding the (at least) the basics of the culture in which the language is used.
i really don't think its that big of a deal, as a deaf person I truly think she's just showing what she's learned
fr
She literally encouraged people to send
hate to those politely correcting her signs in
the comments to the point it led to death
threats against those people. When
confronted with this, she blatantly ignored it
and continued playing the victim. She lied
about being a fluent interpreter to gain an
opportunity to sign the national anthem at
sporting events
@@ahmadalimi9784 honey i have no idea where your getting information but it is definitely untrue
@@ahmadalimi9784 honey,i think you've been told the wrong info.that never happened
@@ahmadalimi9784that is an entirely different scenario than what is described in the video. This issue shouldnt be phrased as "You shouldnt be teaching signs you learned when you arent fluent" it should be "Dont actively send death threats when deaf people correct your signs"
Another issue with teaching online whether you're fluent or not is dialects. If you're fluent in California asl and you come to Philadelphia you will need to relearn asl. Philadelphia never lost asl like most other states and because of this it has the most unique dialect in the whole country. It's much closer to French sign language than ASL. In the 1770's a Frenchmen opened up the very first school for the deaf in Philadelphia.
Holy knowledge lol! I can't even remember the year I was born in half the time let alone a whole ass asl history lesson by territory. 🤭 This was actually really cool. I'm glad you said everything you did! Every time I pop down to her comment section I learn something new like this that I find very interesting and can read up on. 👍🏻 💯 Thanks mate!
Learning good, fire bad. 🤣
That would make sense with different languages (English, Spanish, Italian, ect), but why isn't ASL universal in English? It seems like it would make it that much more difficult to communicate if there are so many different dialects within an area/country. Why aren't they streamlined? Is that something that's known or just evolved into?
@@phoenixfire2578 The first reason that ASL isn't universal throughout anglophone countries is America is not the origin of the anglophones. If sign languages followed the spoken languages used in the Modern era (they didn't), British Sign Language would be the obvious choice.
ASL is thought to have originated at a school started by a man who learned sign language in France while observing other educators of deaf students. Thus, ASL shares more with a sign language that isn't associated with anglophones than it does with BSL.
@@beyondfan thank you for your reply! I thought ASL was structured from the language in the area to coincide with reading lips. I thought I understood how it works and I was clearly wrong! 😀
@@perregrine thank you for your reply! Wow. I need to look into this further bc I thought signs were directly from the words spoken. I imagine so many more people think it works that way too.
The next generation of school kids over here will be fluent in ASL (Australian) as sign language has become part of the school curriculum 😀 and I think it's absolutely fan-bloody-tastic! The deaf community is now going to be inclusive in everyday life as kids will be taught from a young age sign language as they learn words and speech as they grow.
This is amazing!!
absolutely amazing
I wish America would take a lesson from Australia's book. Some colleges won't even consider ASL as a foreigner language credit so it's as if they never even took a language. So frustrating.
Deaf here. Small quibble. When referring to sign language in Australia it's called
AUSLAN
In America, it's
ASL.
That's awesome! Do you know which sign language they'll be learning? ASL would be American sign language, but you noted you're Australian (I'm assuming that's what you meant to note), so are they still being taught American Sign Language, or is it Australian Sign Language, or another one? I'm just curious, in all honesty.
But, she’s literally saying she isn’t fluent and is learning. She’s just showing what she took from class like with any other language and them being a language learner. It helps reinforce what they’ve learned and
Introduces someone else to it in a way like, “see, don’t think you can’t if I can even though I didn’t grow up learning it or need it the same way.” All one has to do is look at her full journey or know where she’s from
I think there’s nothing wrong. Literally is fine with every language
What?!? Im deaf, and only 13x and find no problem with this, she is NOT teaching!!!! She specifically stated how shes not teaching and is ASKING for modifications!!! What?!?
It seems to me that this young lady is possibly a tad jealous that the other young lady’s videos “blew up”.
I don't think so. She probably misunderstood. @@aliciakerr7639
That "or whatever" after "There's this girl named Lola" is an amazing diss😂
😂😂
The hand slaps were so dismissive.. 😂😂😂
*clack clack*
I think she’s mad Lola blew up and hers didn’t
@@Brainjoy01 doubt it
i think the problem isn't her teaching others when she isn't fluent herself, there are lots of accounts like that for vocal languages too for tracking progress and getting in contact with other language learners, but that apparently she teaches it wrong and won't correct her mistakes but continues to spread wrong information.
It doesn't sound like those tracking progress & practicing are teaching tho. the teaching actually IS part of the problem, with or without disclaimers, she has no qualifications to teach ASL.
The teaching is the problem i know her and its with no malice intent what she is doin its a hobby for her just as guitar is to me we both suck and will get better she is too young for all this backlash still in grade school lmao i think it’s hilarious but she has no formal training or credentials to teach and that wasnt even her aim just somthing it turned into
the teaching is the problem. accounts that are for tracking progress don't teach. when i post korean speaking videos i'm doing that to track progress or get feedback, which is clearly not what lola is doing.
@@montananerd8244Qualifications or the lack of them is less of an issue than claiming to be an authority on a language when you're actually contradicting a recognized authority.
@@Baritone-qd2jj If she's so young she can't handle the consequences of her arrogance and entitlement, then her parents need to take away and delete her social media accounts. But they're probably making money off of her if they've been as viral aa other people have shown. This is why children shouldn't be on social media, certainly not alone.
Sometimes teaching is the best way to learn! I've told my Spanish teacher about how I teach my sister what I learn in class, and she says that teaching others can help you learn too!
Teaching as the final part is actually a known learning model. Someone shows you, you do it (then do it well) then teach it. It allegedly locks it into your brain better.
She actually says “today I LEARNED” and her signs are correct from what I’ve seen
Literally and she probably says “not teaching” so ppl don’t learn from her, I rlly don’t see the problem
(cmiiw) some people say that she doesnt include it in all of her videos, so that is what causing the problem Ig?
She does tho-
This content creator is presenting new signs language. An actual deaf person is telling you that her signs are incorrect. Her audience will then use these signs to communicate with deaf people. If I was deaf I would feel that this person is mocking my language.
And are you actually fluent in ASL?
My sister teaches deaf/hard of hearing kids. She said one of the hardest parts of ASL is how incredibly localized the signs can be. If that’s the case, I imagine trying to learn from *anyone* online isn’t going to work.
Local dialects. Lot of signs are recognized all over but different towns were separate and often learned different signs for thing. I lived in upstate NY, drove one hour to Poughkeepsie to work, or drove East for an hour and in Hartford Conn. the signs had variances! 2 hours apart and different signs.
Some a fairly standardized, but You can't teach bike racing if you're still on training wheels.
Maybe that's true. I have a deaf person in my family. He is over 60 so he communicates pretty well without ASL to hearing people when he needs to. He reads lips and mouths answers....for a long time I got apps on my phone, learning a word a day. I was truly trying to learn ASL. When I would sign things like "bowl to him or certain family members like cousin or in law...he would just nod
Certain words he'd just nod and I didn't know for the longest time there were different signs until we wrote notes about it months later!
You can learn online. Several of the people I subscribe to will do a couple of variations, and have warned that it might vary where you live, and to check with your local Deaf community. Within the Deaf community, I imagine that someone using a different sign for McDonald's (for example) is probably not unheard of, but the person seeing it would know what was meant. Much in the same way as when someone asks for a soda/pop in an area where the word they are using is less prevalent. Or that when someone from the deep south of the US speaks to you, you understand what they are saying, even if the accent is really thick and they say things like "warsh" instead of "wash".
as someone who is trying to learn ASL to be able to communicate better with a deaf friend, I found Lola’s account & thought it was really cool that she was breaking ASL down into easy to learn signs that I could quickly pick up. but I had no idea all the (unfortunately deserved) backlash she was getting from the deaf community; all of which is very valid & I wish I had known sooner! thanks, especially to your videos Liz, I unfollowed her on all my accounts! I hope to find more and more deaf content creators like you to have as much exposure to ASL as possible. ❤️
i mean shes getting it wrong and that's fine, she's learning and that's the literal whole point
@@chichichichichichiOwO There was this Girl who used to do awesome music videos in ASL she'd play the song and sign to the song, and they were right but she had the I love you sign in asl for a t-shirt with her name... The deaf community OBLITERATED her channel and spread the most vial things about her and she quit because of the stress, they literally told her she can't sell any merch with sign language because she wasn't deaf while at the same time claiming they were not "gatekeeping" SPREADING the language is BEAUTIFUL, Its not the deaf community as a whole at all though, It was younger generation and what they called "deaf twitter" but they still were able to spread , meanwhile the deaf who watch her channel WERE SO SAD, they tried to convince her over and over that she should not get bullied and that no one has a free pass to bully others, regardless of what you have, there is a way to treat people. She was really popular so this was not a small amount of deaf or hard of hearing people telling her they loved it and bought her merch,
Not that this situation is the same, But t'm weary of these stories because usually it isn't as bad, But... even then... its just someone trying to show what she learned, And i can gaurentee the people who are upset didn't handle it right and were probably very very harsh instead of saying, It's wrong, please don't teach.
Really late but I went to her channel. Almost all her content is her showing a new sign she learned. She’s not meant to teach anyone nor is it her goal. Her trying to learn sign and documenting her small growth isn’t taking away from the deaf community, she’s trying to learn. People are choosing to learn/listen to them because there aren’t a lot of free or accessible ASL teachings
i think she's just excited to learn and wants to share her excitement
"Teaching is easy re-teaching is 10 times harder"
-My 8th grade teacher
(Edit Thank you so much for all the likes!)
Wiser words have not been spoken
More like "teaching is hard as fuck; re-teaching is a shit show"
I 2nd that as a piano teacher!
3rd as a dancer, where people will learn for like 3 months and start trying to teach, telling everybody that everyone else with 20+ years of exp is wrong 🙃
I’m a deaf guy and I agree I have had to correct people that have learned a SL this way and when I’ve asked them where did you learn this from? They have cited places like this and I said well they got it wrong.
That's what we should do to anyone learning a language. If they don't speak it right, tell them they're wrong every chance we get. Then we can get real upset when we don't feel included.
Where or from whom do you suggest an hearing person who is interested in learning ASL trying to do so?
@@user-hs3eo3zs6t contract deaf interpreter or someone from a deaf school
I wish I was fluent but don't have anyone to sign with. I do teach some sign with my young students - is that ok even though I'm not fluent? I would love your input...thanks!
This has to be the most piddling drama of 2024...
It doesn't matter how you get there it just matters if you get there...
Yeah I agree with you. As someone who’s first language was ASL (but still hearing) I would never teach something like that online. It’s just not right. The only reason I was taught asl was bc my mom is deaf. Now I’ll teach it to a friend but not to a large mass online, it’s just not right.
why is it not right to teach it online? only asking cause lots of people teach spoken languages online so I'm curious why it's not right to teach sign language online. im genuinely asking btw in case you can't tell
@@LethalLemonLime I'm only guessing that maybe because sign language is so nuanced - you have different versions of sign language (eg ASL, BSL etc) as well as regional differences. Plus hand and head placement and facial expression is so important that things could easily be misconstrued online. Plus you wouldn't have the benefit of the teacher correcting you in real time.
@@angelicMisha With there being so many different dialects just in ASL then why is this girl throwing a hissy fit over another person showing signs they have learned? How do any of you know its not a different dialect? Lizzie CONSTANTLY signs the wrong words in almost every video. But no one questions her because why? She claims to not hear anything at all yet has hearing aids? She makes vidoes about Starbucks employees signing words wrong and vidoes saying how she writes down her orders and if someone tries to talk to her she puts her hand up and points to her ears. She can hear!!! She likes the attention of causing a scene so she can make videos about it. She is hard of hearing NOT deaf. She has hearing aids and can hear. I know plenty of deaf people, my brother included and have been signing most of my life. She is putting on an act and pretending to be completely deaf when shes not.
@@Justme-jh6uuthat’s not the point… she’s completely deaf in one ear and mostly deaf in the other (I BELIEVE, I very much could be thinking of another creator), so no, she is not 100% deaf in both ears, but VERY MUCH hard of hearing. That’s not attention seeking you dippy dope, that is legit her group, she is apart of that community. The hearing aids only help so much… she cannot hear that well with hearing aids. Hearing aids usually suck ass man, especially the worse your hearing is. She cannot hear. Of course she writes her orders down in order to communicate, because she doesn’t know what they’re saying 100%, she can only make an educated guess. Of course she shares her experiences with Starbucks baristas who sign incorrectly, SHES A DEAF CONTENT CREATOR 😭 her whole shtick is talking about HER EXPERIENCES and HER LIFE, and when people ask questions like “how do you order at a drive through?” She answers them from her own personal experiences. Cmon dawg no way you know that many deaf people and are pressed she’s not 100% fucking deaf, that’s just fucking stupid. She’s still apart of the deaf community. She’s not hiding shit or seeking attention by claiming she’s fully deaf 💀
@@angelicMishathis all applies to spoken languages as well though.
This is why I'm so scared to learn ASL. I once tried to use what I learned when talking to a deaf couple at work and they made fun of me.
She definitely shouldn't be teaching but I do think trying to use ASL in day-to-day life can be kind of beneficial but one bad experience can ruin someone's desire to learn.
That type of deaf people are a menace honestly.
"Lol ur bad at sign language" okay then I just wont learn, if you're going to be an ass about it. Screw me for putting in effort. Get used to bringing a pen and paper everywhere because I'm not learning your language then if you're going to be a jerk.
Exactly. Sharing parts of what you've learned is natural. People learning a spoken language do this too, they'll want to show people what they've learned, even if they're not fluent yet.
If a whole community then sh*ts on you for publicly daring to show off what you've learned because you're not immediately perfect and fluent... that's a great way to make sure that person an a LOT of other people will never ever learn that language at all.
Imagine someone's trying to learn English and they upload a video of their progress, and then a bunch of native English speakers tell them _"How dare you speak English, you're doing it wrong, you're not even fluent. What if someone sees this and learns English wrong from your video. You're terrible!"_
Now that person is probably going to stop learning English and anyone else that sees that reaction isn't going to try either.
Good job.
😢they should have taught you, not made fun of you. That was rude AF
I work in pharmacies. Years ago a deaf person came up with his hearing friend. I noted the name and when it was ready I used finger spelling to 'call' his name. He was so happy it made me grateful I knew that little. Languages are my weak point, I barely passed both English and French GCSE, and learning sign seems to be an in-person thing, but I often wish I could manage to learn BSL
Sorry you ran into those assholes.
"Lola or whatever"
Sass even in sign 🤣 men and women just wanted to gossip and not being able to talk wasn't going to stop them 😂👏
The thing is though shes just sharing her journey, shes not trying to teach, although i do see that it looks like it, plus she always says 'today i *learned* '
which is implying she learned the right sign? and is showing it on a video bc she thinks it’s the right one 😭 be so fr
@@be3p it's implying she learned *a* sign, it may not be the right one. It's like in languages, depending on who you get taught by means you may be taught the wrong thing, speaking from experience.
@@megxme_She literally encouraged people to send
hate to those politely correcting her signs in
the comments to the point it led to death
threats against those people. When
confronted with this, she blatantly ignored it
and continued playing the victim. She lied
about being a fluent interpreter to gain an
opportunity to sign the national anthem at
sporting events
@@ahmadalimi9784 if thats true wheres the proof and why didn't this content creator not say that? because I think that's the worse thing out of all this then "shes showing people what she learned"
@chichichichichichiOwO lol google it. Also, the content creator still said that she was spreading misinformation, not just showing what shes learned. It doesn't matter if she means to, but there are impressionable people using her videos as a form of learning for sign language, and she does not do her due diligence in making sure her signs are accurate. Furthermore, in the comments of her videos she replies to people that say that they "learn with her," and does not actively discourage them from kearning from her despite being a novice, young girl or not when you have a large platform it is your responsibility to make sure you do not spread misinformation-especially if there are several others who have clarified that you are doing so. The first time it was a mistake, the second an accident but the third, fourth, fifth time it is her responsibility to make sure that she is careful about the signs she uses to make sure they are accurate. As a hearing person who does not use sign language as tgeur primary language, this form of misinformation does not affect her, but it does affect actual deaf/HOH people. Again, this is just one of her minor offenses, but you are misrepresenting the situation and making it seem like she is a victim. SHE IS IN THE WRONG.
There is a bit of a trade off between not teaching Sign language and helping more people take up sign language. Also, teaching signs as a student helps your reinforce what you have learnt and lets other around you be more understanding of sign languages.
Many people have never met a Deaf person and surely a hearing person teaching them a few signs (as long as they are correct) is better than them knowing nothing if they do meet one in the future.
That been said if you do teach, you are responsible for teaching the language correctly and you should not try to go beyond your level.
Maybe having a disclaimer or using primary sources (with actual native speakers/Deaf people) would be best.
I feel like what she should have done is instead do updates about what she has learned and show the new signs she knows but instead of it being to teach people it would be to confirm if the signs are correct so she could have a ton of people from the community coach her. So rather than “sign of the day” it would be “new sign I learned today.” A small distinction but it completely changes the intent and instead makes it a wholesome learning experience.
Yes
I really appreciated the videos of you signing to songs. I was so inspired that after you posted a list of resources to learn, so I did. Now, asl is not for me?
I am not fluent in my native language but I always appreciate it when people ask me how to say words or try to practice with me because I know that they’re just trying to relate to me.
Languages are often taught by incompletely fluent people. Part of the fun is trying it out and saying something ridiculous. But trying is better than just not communicating. If some girl is teaching wrong signs, just comment. We all know to check the comments.
i took my first year of asl in high school from a coda, then the second year was from a hearing person, but i think she did a really good job! she puts a huge emphasis on deaf culture and respecting those apart of it. she often reminds us that if we ever get the chance to talk to someone who is deaf, we need to be happy to take feedback from them and keep in mind that they are native to asl and we aren’t.
I don’t know if I fully agree. We let older high school students tutor younger high school students in subjects they too are still learning. I know my first introduction to ASL was from Chella Man a deaf person who isn’t fluent in ASL (by their own words). Obviously teaching things incorrectly is harmful, but I don’t have an issue with someone at an intermediate level teaching some basics.
If I'm understanding right what your saying is if she was like " I just learned this sign to day I'm not a teacher don't learn from me" like I do when I post any little bit of ASL on tt like the M-A-M-A B-O-Y thing
I have a deaf big brother (by 4 years) and I knew a lot of sign language before I could even talk thanks to my mom!❤
"You're not fluent" lmao like that's stopped any language teacher ever from teaching a language. XD
I'm from Germany and quite a lot of my English teachers were only semi fluent. It wasn't that uncommon that my English was actually better than the teacher's and one of them just flat out told me that I would probably do a better job at teaching English than her. I was flattered, but tbh I have no idea how to deal with teenagers so probably not. Bless that teacher though, her classes were fun. I just helped her out whenever she forgot a word or wasn't sure about something ^^
What's not being acknowledged is that fluency is a spectrum. I think it's fair to say that a beginner should be wary of teaching teaching, but people who are intermediate... If you say they can't teach even complete beginners, I'd say that's gatekeeping and reducing the amount of resources out there 🤷 Like it's fine if you think they should disclose that info, but straight out saying they shouldn't is wrong imho
and this content creator isn't fluent herself. it takes years upon years of constant use of a language to be considered "fluent" and she has like 3 years.
@@SadistModeOn exactly.
I'm not trying to be rude. but I'm confused why their is such a stigma in the deaf community with people who aren't deaf teaching ASL. When I was learning Spanish I would learn from non native speakers all the time.
What she is saying is that she was doing the signs incorrectly
she not trying to teach at all. she’s just simply showing what she learnt that day, the audacity you have to call people out.
She was showing it in a way that a person who teaches ASL would do it. But the problem is that she's doing it incorrectly and showing other people to do the same. I believe now she just shows her learning process, but she used to do something different. This video is old, so don't think that it applies to the present.
Girly… she literally claimed she was fluent, calling those who politely corrected her “haters” and accused them of faking being deaf/HOH. This resulted in those politely correcting her receiving death threats.
intention doesn't fucking matter if the result is still damaging
@@ZoZoZoeee That's not true. The result can be damaging if someone takes it the wrong way. It had nothing to do with the person's intentions. If I post a video about how to shoot a gun when you go hunting and someone uses that knowledge to kill a person, I am not responsible for that result. It was my intention to make a hunting video.
Agreed, it's important to learn ASL correctly to avoid spreading misinformation.
Please blow this video up so people all over the world can see it ❤
Sign language all over the world is entirely different from ASL. Just letting you know.
@@user-we5pd7ds5oyes, but it applies to every kind of sign language. Don’t teach sign language online, that’s the message we need to share.
Absolutely. Where I live, the sign language is called Auslan, not ASL, but you're right that the principle applies everywhere. Let the Deaf Community be the teachers.
@user-we5pd7ds5o. yh i think everyone who knows about sign language knows that sign language is different in every country BSL ASL are prolly the most popular (well on my feed idk)
no cause this video is harmful towards the girl herself. shes just showing people what shes learned and a majority of her videos she starts with "this is what I learned today" shes going to get things wrong cause shes learning and shes literally not teaching. its fine to say what she signed was wrong because she needs to know cause.....shes learning. that page is actually more like a journal
I honestly dont think theres any issue with this based on the context of your video. If someone posts a "what i learn in a day learning spanish" or anything else for that matter even if its wrong its not technically teaching. Thats on the viewers for trying to learn from her when shes stated its not meant for teaching purposes
Well she did sign the national anthem completely wrong at an event
I want you to imagine that you are scrolling through shorts and you see me and I say:
"Todays latin word of the day is Paterfamilias! this means brother"
I taught you something didn't I? *That's teaching* even if "technically" it is not in it's traditional form.
Also it's wrong because Paterfamilias means head of the household
@@vortexwriting1026 okay except she didn't do that, her whole page is about HER learning. if it triggers you that someone is learning and they get something wrong (BECAUSE THEY ARE LEARNING) then correct them (nicely) then move on.
@@chichichichichichiOwO The issue is that she doesn't correct herself when it is wrong so shes spreading misinformation
@@vortexwriting1026 again, she's not teaching, the whole point is that she's learning
I am glad that there are people in the Deaf community that are more accepting of hearing people learning ASL. I took a semester of it in college, and the professor was a CODA and was a gatekeeper, despite being an instructor to (in the case of my class) hearing people. Within the week (when we were doing fingerspelling; a thing I was already EXCELLENT at), she loudly and harshly criticized my "screeching" E in front of the whole class, and said hearing people kept doing it wrong, etc then was like "WHO TAUGHT YOU THAT?" and when I responded, "My Deaf aunt," it took the wind out of her sails. Needless to say, she did not like me, and her subsequent treatment caused me to give up ASL learning until recently. (Note: My aunt is Deaf, but she and my uncle divorced when I was 7 and she and my cousin--who were fluent--moved away, so I never got to learn more).
With internet everyone can be a teacher which opens new opportunities but also new dangers. Had a teachers at literally school that knew about their subject even less than that, so it's not smth new. Spreading awareness and being careful with learning resources is the best what we can do
i can understand people wanting to learn, because i do that. I came home after a concert where they had an interpreter and showed my sister a new sign I learned that night watching them. Sunrise. Because i thought the sign was really cool.
I learned a sign from a professional interpreter and passed it on because i thought it was neat. That's one thing. But I don't sit here and pretend I actually know what i'm doing, because i don't. I'm still learning. I just like sharing things that I think are cool.
The problem is people acting like they know things when they don't. Then you're just spreading bad information that hurts the whole community.
And when people give you feedback, freaking TAKE IT. I would LOVE to have a deaf person/coda/professional interpreter in my life who could correct any mistakes I was making so that I knew i was getting things right. That would be amazing. Because it's a lot harder to UNLEARN incorrect things than it is to learn it the right way the first time.
That's a serious problem. And taking advantage of a whole community just to get a following is really crappy.
As a hearing person with ties to Deaf community, I'd love to watch a channel that was designed to video conference with the Deaf. Live corrections, captions, showing what it is really like to learn ASL.
I don't know what the Deaf community would think of such a channel and their input is more relevant than mine. One of the biggest concerns I've seen is the distaste for hearing people profiting from the Deaf, so if someone did start such a channel, I'd recommend proceeds be donated to a Deaf charity of choice.
My sister has been teaching me English starting when she was 6 years old and I was 2.
She had just begun learning it at school.
4 years later when I started at school I was nearly fluent. It gave me such a boost, by the time I was 10 my English was as good as my first language.
What she is doing is sharing her learning journey.
It's like when you explain a math problems to a classmate and it's more comprehensible then what the prof was teaching. Being taught by someone around your own level is a great technique for learning.
Something that I teach (and am also qualified to teach) is finswimming.
I had a kid, that just wouldn't learn how to dive straight down.
Tried everything.
Then another kid noticed and shared that he learned to do handstands in the shallow water first and that helped him to dive. I learned that 18 years ago, for me it just 'feels natural' but someone who just learned it can help with the tips that helped them.
And my last point is: Don't gatekeep.
It won't do you any good.
I think the issue here is that ASL is a language of an often overlooked and under-supported minority, and that having someone act as an authority on the language when they are not can harm the efforts of the community. However I agree that gatekeeping should be limited and hearing people learning ASL properly should be supported!
Im deaf and I really love ur videos so much bc it makes me comfortable being/watching vids bout deaf peoples life!
I genuinely got terrified when she said lola because thats my name but then i realized it was a different person
But there also seems to be dialect/accent (?) differences in ASL. I took a year of ASL in college in the Northwest and had a handful of deaf/HoH friends but when I moved to the Southeast, a lot of signs I'd learned were not the same in the southeastern dialect/accent of ASL. Don't mean to play devils advocate but that has been my experience and maybe it's similar for her? Either way I agree she shouldn't be teaching and she should definitely be listening to the deaf community's opinions about what she's doing with their language!
I had this experience, too. Except mine was a difference between the Texas panhandle and central Texas. I was told I signed the wrong sign for a word by a Deaf person and his wife. It was such a small difference that it was basically an accent. But I guess since I was a student, they didn't consider that I could be right but from a different accent/dialect.
I agree, and it’s so sad. I’m learning ASL so I can speak to family members I have in the deaf community and in class the most important things we learn is to not “teach” because we aren’t fluent. And it’s so horrible because we want to break the language barrier not build more walls. It’s ok to teach if you’re fluent but not if your spreading misinformation
I'm learning ASL from the stuff you recommended from your video!😋
Am i the only one finding the sound her nails make when she does asl satisfying?
The way I was taught is that you should use your dominant hand for most signs especially when it comes to sign that involve movement but I went on tik tok and someone asked a girl that was “teaching” ASL which hand they should use and she said it didn’t matter. And then she was teaching sentence structure for ex: I was taught to sign “your name what’s?” When signing i ASL But she was teaching it as “what’s your name” the way we would speak it in English. This is when I discovered that hearing people who are learning sign are out here teaching other people sign. It’s so hard to trust accounts when I actually want to LEARN. I only follow a few people now Bill vicars , ASL Meredith and learn to sign. Those 3 accounts have helped me learn sign and sentence structure which is what I struggle with from switching to English to ASL .
Both are technically correct.
I have to sign with my non-dominant hand acting as the dominant hand while signing. I'm right hand dominant but experience intense chronic pain from a broken wrist that didn't heal properly. My right wrist cannot take the strain from signing, so I have to relearn as a left handed signer.
The signs are the same no matter which hand is used as dominant. For most hearing people, it is ideal to have the dominant signing hand be the normally dominant hand. When we don't use sign language for all of our communication, we don't build the same muscle strength the Deaf do. Our dominant hands have more muscle strength, especially for fine motor movements, than our non-dominant hands.
It ultimately doesn't matter, but it can be a little confusing when signing switches from right dominant to left and back again.
Also, "what's your name?" would be Signed Exact English or SEE sign which is closer to what Lizzy does. ASL and English grammar don't allow for speaking and signing simultaneously.
Can't comment on her qualifications to teach SEE sign, but happy to share that not all signed language in the US looks the same. SEE sign is not it's own language; it has English grammar and ASL signs.
I see the signs from you and I learn 😂
Too bad they Are mirrored because of tiktok :(
@@PizzaPenguin650 😢
@Julie Kalbakk Jørgensen Does the mirroring matter? When you sign doesn't each person use the side they prefer. I thought I had learned that. Thatrillright
@@LadybeetleMaddox it does matter when doing signs that are specifically signed on for example the right side of your face
@Ella ෆ OK. That does make sense and sound familiar too. I remember asking about handedness but not place specific.
And this is why i learn from professionals,off topic but your nails are very pretty
I love how you are okay about this and just say it is not right and not picking a fight.
I know you said its not enough, but if shes been consistent about just sharing her OWN learning journey, then people should be able to tell shes not teaching it, just showing words that shes learning. i feel like a more tactful response would be to inform her that her words are wrong, and how to speak ASL better without making a whole tiktok on it.
Your videos recently have made me really interested in learning ASL but im too scared to try because i always quit anything i start
Just give it a try!
I am doing German and yes I really enjoy learning and speaking the language
deff don't show this content creator tho or she might think your teaching lol
i love this girl shes so dope! i love asl always wanted to learn but is soooo hard!
I have a deaf neighbor that helps me learn some things and I must say it is more helpful to learn from the real deal than a video. also girl I love your nails!!! ❤️
I was never taught, as hearing person with Deaf colleagues, to depend on specific signs, but to approach ASL as a whole body language. when you are in communication space with someone, their face is still your #1 cue for language meaning. I know a bazillion sign, but I am not fast enough in comprehension to be useful lol. just learning static signs does not equal knowing ASL. and asl etiquette matters A LOT, if you don't know cultural norms, you can embarrass yourself badly (it's been 30 yrs, I still am mad at myself lol).
A person who is not fluent CAN absolutely teach an language as long as they do not exceed their knowledge limit. I can teach, and have taught, BEGINNING French, Spanish, and ASL, even though I'm not fully fluent in any of them. Should someone hire me over a fluent person, all other factors (teaching experience, availability, salary required, etc.) being equal? No.
hearing ur nails clack while u were doing asl scratched a part of my brain in such a nice way
I am so glad I found you. I am learning to become an ASL serpenter. And your signing
is amazing (very fluid easy to understand). MUCH respect
She's learning. Why don't YOU keep that in mind and since you're so fluent.. teach us, don't hate!!!!
I'm currently learning Makkaton (I think that's how you spell it) so I can make more friends :)
"I don't have a problem with HEARING people learning ASL"
My nan has been deaf for 5 years now and ever since then I have been taking courses online made by deaf people, and there are many channels that I have watched that are deaf people and it is so helpful ❤ I’m currently learning Shot gun from George Ezra in sign, I never trust learning from hearing people
Maybe I'm missing context but there are plenty of language RUclipsrs sharing their learning journeys and practicing speaking broken, nonfluent languages. There's nothing wrong with that. You yourself said she discloses that she's not teaching. She's just trying her best to learn and sharing her progress.
If she's representing herself as an expert authority on ASL, that's one thing but what you described just sounds like she's sharing herself learning something. People do that all the time with languages, skills, hobbies, etc
She literally signs “teaching” and not everyone reads descriptions/comments
I have no knowledge on this person (either one) but they're saying the other one is teaching things incorrectly.
Assuming that's true, she should stop. I don't care that it fosters a community, it'll be fostered around incorrect information.
I've seen this in amateurs attempting to teach my second language, and even fluency doesn't necessarily mean teaching is a good idea.
okay but she is teaching… she shows her followers new signs of the day and most of them are wrong. that’s literally teaching… there’s a difference between sharing your journey and showing your followers your incorrect signs.
I don’t see anything wrong with someone sharing what they are learning especially if they are being clear that they are still learning and not a teacher. I hope that anyone seriously looking to learn a new language goes to a credible source when learning and doesn’t use another student as their main source of information. However, I have heard the idea in the deaf community that only deaf people or codas (children of deaf adults) can teach and I think anyone who is fluent should be welcomed to teach and share what they know. People like Lola may be doing damage by perpetuating some incorrect signs, but there are many resources for people seriously interested in ASL to go a check if these signs are correct. It would be great if she added credible sources for her signs in her description so people could go learn from those sources/ teachers. I also think that Lola’s videos may expose new people to ASL and might make them consider joining a class or checking out things like Bill Vicars videos. I think that exposure to ASL can help to make ASL more ubiquitous which can help break down communication barriers between the hearing a deaf community which I think is a good thing for everyone.
@@meg7865 on paper this argument works. But as somebody who went and learned ASL from Deaf people at school, i completely agree with others opinion that she should stop. The main reason ( to me) is bc Deaf people from the community have asked this of hearing people over and over again. Like any minority that has been oppressed and silenced for so long, I deeply believe it’s our job to do what they ask instead of disregarding their requests bc we think we know better.
There are many specific reasons a Deaf person or ASL interpreter should be the one teaching. For example, learning signs isn’t just about language, a ton of culture is tied up in ASL, that a newbie wouldn’t understand and would be wrongfully representing( this has gone on for hundreds of years)
Deaf/deaf ( do you even know the difference?) people don’t have access to many of the jobs and social currency that that hearing people do, in large part bc hearing society vastly overlooks Deaf people for jobs, ( including teaching and interpretation) and this RUclips creator is def falling into that camp. It’s just soooo much better to learn ASL from a native signer or interpreter. I could go on and on but I highly encourage you to learn more on this topic from Deaf people as they are the authorities as well as the ones effected by situations like this.
It would be better if she was duetting fluent creators to show her progress side by side.
The fact that I’d always enjoy her videos before knowing this😭
Yes everyone please learn ASL from a deaf person Liz you have teached me so much asl im so grateful I found your channel your so cute and Smart thank you so much 💗
🎶 her name is lola, she was a show girl-
But that's was 30 years ago
I’m a hearing person who’s fluent in ASL since both of my parents are completely deaf and I completely agree with EVERYTHING you say.
Learning about ASL as a hearing person, honestly I’m just glad instead of having to rely on people who do awful things like these I have a mentor whom actually is connected with the community being a child of a deaf adult
There's a wonderful website I found that shows you the variations to certain words, like some people prefer to finger spelling short words, it also shows different ways for the same word depending on it's use in the sentence, if I find it again, I'd love to share
I have a cousin who is deaf, I’m definitely not great at ASL, we do long signing because I know the alphabet so when I get stuck I just sign out what I’m trying to say and then she’ll show me a better sign for what I’m trying to say, it’s not easy for sure but having a good teacher is a MUST if you want to be able to communicate better using ASL, luckily she’s very patient with us and will teach us anything we wanna know
I hope somebody is commenting under Lola’s posts so that those who are learning from her find out!
Is she on TikTok only or RUclips? I’ve never seen her but I don’t really use TikTok
I have been watching you for a long time.... and you showed videos when you were learning.... I mean people even complained and you made a similar response. ..
Wow the most stunningly beautiful deaf person I’ve ever seen!
deafness doesn’t affect your appearance tho?
@@caliglid yes I know that obviously.. I was just saying she’s really pretty
Non-fluent signers teaching ASL incorrectly reminds me of the time my first French teacher, an American who learned French as a second language while traveling abroad in college, taught me that the French word for "excited" is "exciteé" and I learned a year later that it actually means horny and I had basically been saying for months that I was horny for everything. That's why I believe languages should be taught only by native speakers/signers whenever possible.
I don’t think you need to be a native speaker to teach. I just think you need to be at a level where you are fluent and understand enough of the nuances. Non-natives can be great teachers because they had to learn the language as a second language too and that helps them understand rules. People who speak as a native don’t always know how to explain why a word is used or grammar rules. Because they just use the language naturally and know when something sounds awkward. If that makes sense.
@@laurenmiller4824 yup also some natives won't learn the language of the place they teach in like my mandarin teacher 😭 like please learn our language instead of yapping while our whole class try to understand
"Excited" does translate to "excité.e" in French though... It's just got different meanings in different contexts, just like the english word does...
How can a person whose learning know whether or not they're learning the right thing? I had a friend who bought a sign language book so he could learn to communicate with his deaf friend but his deaf friend told him almost everything in the book is wrong...
“Today I learneed” 😂😂 how to sign “teaching” “too long” and “keep that in mind” from you ❤❤
Im a adult that was in an accident and lost my hearing now your my favorite RUclipsrs cause your one if the only ones who don’t hate asl or other kinds of sl😊im also happy because I haven’t learned asl fully yet and you out sub’s
As an ASL learner, I agree with you that folks who aren't fluent shouldn't be teaching on social media. However, as a parent who isn't fluent but has mild to moderately deaf children who had significant speech delays as toddlers and wear hearing aids now as young adults, I think that teaching my children signs I knew was important even though I wasn't fluent. I homeschool my youngest and I teach her signs I know just like I teach her Spanish words that I know. If I used not being fully fluent as an excuse to not share that knowledge with my kids, they'd know a lot less ASL and a lot less Spanish. I think the difference is that when it's something I don't know, I say I don't know and we look it up together. I never pretend to know, guess, or make stuff up, and I don't broadcast my attempts at ASL on any social media or represent myself as an interpreter. I'm just saying please don't discourage parents from trying to teach their kids ASL.
I am a hearing mother to a Deaf little girl. My experience has been that the Deaf community delights in hearing parents giving their deaf children access to visual language.
Here in Utah, we had a Deaf mentor for my daughter for 3 years when she was young, before school age. One of the most encouraging things she taught me is that it is more important that my daughter have access to language than being completely accurate in ASL. Many families have home signs, things that are signed differently between family in a household because they develop organically -- parents learning ASL do their best, occasionally sign something inconsistent with ASL, and then it sticks. Children with access to ASL education will eventually learn the difference between home signs and ASL much like children who speak one language at home and another at school do, except with great overlap as parents have started the foundation.
For children who will use technology to be schooled in mainstream classes, the most important thing now is access to language to develop the pathways in the brain primed to learn languages in early childhood. This might look like teaching earliest teachers a few of the signs from home to know what their student needs when the student is stressed.
Please don't feel discouraged. This isn't directed at our situation.
I feel like someone needs to find out what school she attends to learn asl and let her teacher know she's doing this to intervene because it's blatant misinformation
I agree that what she's doing is not okay and she should stop and apologize, but finding out which school she attends and invading her privacy like that seems like too much
@@shes_tired she wont listen to anyone else, and shes getting the signs wrong on top of teaching which is a big deal. also calling yourself an interpreter when you’re not is actually illegal so im all for contacting her teacher. there needs to be repercussions for this behaviour.
@@shes_tired one of the first things taught when learning asl is about deaf culture and how the number one thing you shouldn't do as someone learning is upload videos of yourself signing for the public because it spreads misinformation. I'm not saying we all need to know where she lives or something, I said someone needs to inform the teacher, for example a peer of hers. Where someone goes to public school isn't really private information and I don't know if it should be if you're going to be spreading around misinformation and directly harming the deaf community. And if it were a college class then it should even more be brought to light. These things are not just something annoying, it's detrimental to the deaf community because it's harder to unlearn something than to learn it in the first place. If she was spreading around misinformation about autism or ADHD as a medical student, you would want that reported to the school. It's the same thing. Is deaf and HOH people have it hard enough as is, we don't need this shit being perpetuated so that this girl can make money off of brand deals on her misinformation. And you can look at her page, almost every other video is a brand deal, so she's not innocent or something.
Um yeah no, it is in fact private information where she goes to school unless she shares it. I want her to stop too but this goes too far. Everyone deserves human rights like the right to privacy, even if they're being an asshole on the internet
@• 𝙺𝚊𝚛𝚝𝚎𝚛 • 100% Agree with you. Looking up her school is 2 steps away from doxxing her and that's way too weird to justify.
Thank you for keeping up informed
I love the like tapping with you’re nails and the sign language is so inspiring
Sharing a word you're learning in a new language every day is something I've seen before as a way to improve. So I checked it out and there's nothing to suggest she's not teaching.
It's really not hard to be a respectful beginner whether it's a sign language or not...
I'm trying to learn BSL online, using a source from the Deaf community and one of the first things I learned was "Sorry, I'm still learning" and "I don't know that sign" 😂
Yes that's true, because the communication or conversation might get wrong.
Are aware of how clicky your nails sound while signing? I love it! Lol it's so satisfying to hear while you're signing. It's like asmr asl
you shouldn't be teaching ANY language unless you are fluent and idk why this logic flies out the window when it comes to ASL! people need to be more respectful of the language.
How do you define fluent? It’s not a switch that flips. I speak a number of languages, but I wouldn’t call myself fluent in anything except English. That doesn’t mean that I don’t know enough to teach some concepts or words/phrases.
@@CarrieMK international examinations exist, idt asl has those tho
@@bella11110 I’m aware of the many different language tests that exist. I’ve even taken several, myself. However, fluency is an abstract concept in language learning and ASL tends to gate-keep who can and cannot teach, which is something that doesn’t occur in any other language that I’ve studied. I’ve found that hostility to be very off-putting.
I fail to see the problem with a person who isn’t fluent helping to introduce someone to a new language. For example, I know several native Chinese speakers who have helped me learn, even though they wouldn’t be able to pass HSK Level 6, themselves.
Additionally, language learners who are not yet fluent have a different perspective on language that may be beneficial to new speakers.
I’ve been speaking Spanish for 16 years. I wouldn’t say that I’m fluent, but I’d like to think that I know enough to teach someone how to say please and thank you.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting people to stay within their limits, with regards to teaching language, but requiring fluency is ridiculous.
the way ive been learning is I follow multiple deaf people and codas snd just watching them sign while talking to get more familiar with the signs
Ty for telling me that I was trying to learn words from her because I finished learning the whole alphabet so ty
it would be awesome if you could show us some basic ASL signs, because I feel like other people would want to learn from you also. only if you want to tho. love you and your vids
I just searched it bc I love fresh tea, and she is indeed teaching.
Personally as someone that learned a language I would understand someone posting words they learned that day for motivation. But at the same time... no she isn't making it clear that she is a learner besides her non fluent signing 😂
Even though I learning bsl (British sign language) I love your videos and can relate to deaf problems
I actually just started my new ASL class today and I’m excited, I learned how to fingerspell my name today which was really cool.
She is just showing what she learned. Shes probably just learning wrong without knowing it and that's not her fault.
But what is her fault is ttying to teach others, especially to continue doing so after deaf people have told her numerous times that what she is signing is wrong.
@@user-uv4vf8dd5u she's just trying to be helpful and we can't be sure she's actually been told.
@@abigailberhow5228 yes we can, because in all of her videos it's people telling her what she's signing is wrong. Why are you trying to defend an obviously ignorant person?
@@user-uv4vf8dd5u I am just trying to show two sides. You don't need to start being rude and dramatic over it. You can kindly argue about it.
@@abigailberhow5228 nowhere was I dramatic nor was I rude. I asked you a question, that's all. I appreciate what you're trying to do but if someone has told you the way that both sides is I don't know why you would argue. Especially if the proof is readily available to you.