Why Did the Post Office Want to Control The Narrative About Bugs?
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- Опубликовано: 28 апр 2024
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Why Did the Post Office Want to Control The Narrative About Bugs? Angela van den Bogerd tells Jason Beer at the Post Office Inquiry that she would default to using the word 'bugs' despite using the word 'anomalies' in parts of her witness statement.
Angela van den Bogerd describes how the Post Office wanted to Control The Narrative Around bugs, errors and defects in the Horizon system and Paula Vennells wanted to find a word that was 'less emotive'.
#PostOfficeInquiry #PostOfficeScandal #PostOffice #PostOfficeExecutive #AngelaVanDenBogerd 
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The PO certainly had more than it's share of incompetents, but I don’t think she was one. I think she was quite capably running a deliberate cover-up.
Playing around with words: 'anomalies' sounds less serious than 'bugs', 'errors', or 'defects'. Playing with words contemporaneously whilst playing with people's lives (literally). Cynically evil and calculating. Good to see you back, David, highlighting these crooks' misdeeds so effectively again. Angela van den Bogerd was the archetypical ice maiden, totally devoid of empathy, compassion, or responsibility.
She's well and truly Bogerd now
😂
Her family must be so ashamed of her
Calling a "defect" an "anomaly" reminds me of a marketing phrase that IBM used for a "bug fix release" back in the day:
"a System Reliability Upgrade".
She's from the same place as where I'm from. She has changed her accent to sound posh. I always look down on people who change their accent to sound posh like that. Shes a liar from the inside out
I myself am a mancunian and will never change the fact that I drop my Hs. Not for anyone.
I'm also from the same neck of the woods, and I've held onto my Welsh accent, despite having lived in England for a quarter of my adult life. I tend to feel that, if you've grown up speaking in a certain way but want to sound more "English", then you're either insecure, insincere or even ashamed of your roots. Neither applies in my case, and the only concession I've made is to slow down when I speak to "outsiders"... I've been told that we talk rather fast :)
I think youre reading too much into it. some people take on accents quite quickly, some go the opposite way. when I went down south for uni, I think my accent got stronger.
You have people like John Barrowman that will drop into a Scottish accent when talking to a Scot.
Patrick Stewart is a Yorkshire man, is he somehow a liar for having a posh accent?
At best I suppose you could infer some kind of link between being a follower rather than a leader, she wants to fit in, rather than stick her neck out and go against the grain.
20 years to say sorry as you have now been found out.......All Trying To Cover Their Own Backs....Prison must come to these people.
She’s an adept liar but won’t fool most people because it’s expected of her now. She’s had 39 years experience of blatant deception and lying and she’s gone so far down the rabbit hole she can’t get herself back out?
She’s going to be facing a number of private lawsuits now and if she doesn’t serve time I’d be very surprised.
She keeps on trying to throw other people under the bus by name dropping and passing the buck to others in the organisation.
She could become a Tory Candidate
@@benwilson6145 Prime minister material.
@@benwilson6145 Or a labour candidate? All things being equal? Don't get me wrong, I agree that lots of Tories are liars, but sadly, it seems to me that almost anyone from all parties, who starts off Public Life intending to change the world for the better seems to get sucked into the bubble, and succumbs to the goodies, freebies and pension opportunities on offer. I exclude Dennis Skinner, whose arguments I may not have agreed with often, but who trod a scrupulously honest path. I wish some recent hopefuls for government were as sincere as he. My opinion only.
This guy sets her up, then knocks her down. He works on the simple investigative process of, never ask the question you don’t know the answer to. Makes people squirm. As you do this more during an interview. They get very nervous. Her hand wringing would be gold for me. That just means I’ve got her thinking. You have to remember a lie. You just recall the truth.
none have told the truth liars under oath get jail.
All bugs/exceptions/anomolies are not created equal. They could cause the font of a report to be 11 pt vs 12 pt or they could remove money from an account leading to imprisonment for a subpostmaster. Financial systems require designers, coders, helpline support, and managers to have literacy in programming, testing, and accounting. The lack of awareness of their own inadequacy is appalling.
It's becoming clear that Angela and her ilk are only interested in covering their arses.
And Mr Vennells 'Exceptions'!? And she a cleric. Well, not anymore thank goodness! 😮💨
Vennells and AvdB were a classic folie a deux, a Thelma and Louise of the PO, driving the business over the cliff. I'm not sure which one was the dominant personality, but both seemed to want similar things: self aggrandizement and loads of money. Changing words changes perceptions. Bugs which are faults as a result of faulty and untested software now become exceptions or anomalies which come out of the blue. Anyone who has been a programmer knows that bugs occur because of human error. Exceptions and anomalies appear to be acts of God, like thunder and lightning.
Beers summed her statements up perfectly "word soup".
She is a terrible liar because we already know she has lied and she is doing it again. please let there be a court case and all this terrible people go to jail and the sub postmasters get there money back there dignity back and the money they lost out on! for the ones that are still alive that is.
There has never been a software program of this magnitude that has been bug free from the outset. That this understanding wasn’t at the forefront of any consideration is astonishing. There’s a prevailing attitude amongst public servants that they will always be able to deflect responsibility due to the amorphous nature of the particular department. They will happily accept big pay packages, but avoid responsibility for their actions.
Hi DPS, you do great work. Has your account been recovered yet?
❤She really #Bogerd things up 😜
'Paula Vennells husband'.... poor guy!
I have worked on huge IT projects in the public sector which had much worse software than Horizon. The difference is the management team took error detection and rectification as their most important task over additional features, delivery dates, and cost. Because of this the project ended up being highly successful.
This is what happens when in individual subjugates their entire existence to their employer.
Blind devotion.
JAIL…… LIAR……
I have just come across a quote from the book Return to Reason - it's about solutioneering. "Jumping to a solution before clearly formulating what the problem is (or indeed if there is one at all) or how success or failure are to be judged. Achievement of the solution then becomes the goal; and, when opposition develops, the problem becomes how to get the solution accepted, while the question of how best to solve the original problem, if there was one, never gets discussed at all. I call this mistake solutioneering.". I think this illustrates the PO scandal very well.
The final report is going to be fascinating because it will link together everything that Fujitsu was made aware of, and what the Post Office knew and how it circulated through the various levels of management.
An exception is not a bug. A bug is an error in the code. An exception is where the code finds an error, usually in the user input, such as missing name on a form, and then does a routine to stop the process and bring the error to the attention of the user.
Any .... IT Person / Network Eng / Systems Analyst...db designer and so on.... would, more or less default, to the word bug if an app was continually throwing up errors...thought of as unstable......another word quite common is; buggie.....
To answer the question posed in the title, because the PO was not very good, putting it mildly, at public relations. About as bad as it was at buying information technology. I think at a subconscious level, if a corporate body can be said to have such a thing as a subconscious, the PO knew deep down that it had a BIG problem. But, being in deep denial about the problem, at what might be termed the cellular level (ie, that of the individual) subconsciously the cells were driven by the need to survive; consciously by denying anything was wrong. A bit like an alcoholic who protests his sobriety too much (which I used to do, as I did PR before that, for the PO in the early 1980s, telecoms though, rather better than these clowns). They might not be reeling drunk at a given moment, but are so saturated that their actions and behaviour are permanently distorted. I stopped drinking, got my liver and brain back, grew up. So it goes.
When I was working the term "bug" was always used for any error or defect in a computer system. I think it is still the word commonly used, not just in commercial systems but also in the wide variety of applications and games available to the public. "Anomaly" seems such an anodyne term.
What is clear is that the Post Office certainly had on staff, at lot of bugs, errors, defects and anomalies. Hopefully the lot of them end up in jail.
5th December e-mail mystery - just a thought, John Breedon was a direct report to Angela. We are expected to believe, after "missing" this mail, no follow up by Breedon involving conversations, correspondence took place with Angela to ensure she received the information!
Didn't think TOO much about INNOCENT Postmasters being prosecuted and imprisoned by false evidence of PO Bosses and Lawyers !!
Poor Angela. She's never going to see the DBE she sold her soul for all those years ago...
PAULA VENNELLS IS MARRIED?! WHO WOULD.....EVEN....🤢🤮
❤Definitely a Preying Mantis in her previous life.
Fancy waking up with that in your bed after a night on the beer' vomit inducing ..........
@@colinpyke4199 I hope she lives forever. Every day, remembering what she has done. If she had a conscience. (Praying Mantis. She was a priest, after all. 😄)
@@robertwright7937 She is still the Reverend Paula Venak, COE
@@benwilson6145 So glad I'm not religious. And I struggle to believe she is.👍
Is she trying to push most of the blame onto Vennells?
This change of wording was a deliberate move to downplay the errors in Horizon & to minimise the impact of those errors QED part of the cover-up. Not convincing that AvdB didn't understand what was going on but then that was the constant refrain of her evidence.
Who is going too jail
To be fair “anomaly“ to me can sound either a one off or a greater problem , not massively different to “bug” , however , it would seem that no one at the top took the trouble to find out more , and this is going to to be their downfall .
Every time I turn my mobile on , there is a notification of a “bug” that needs updating , but of course , it doesn’t affect my life in any meaningful way .
Robust Anomalies, mainly the last Four letters.. Capture next Stamps in the mix too. Fixing the failure of Asset stripping with Muppets on Bonuses
She is not telling the truth again. Dusgusting
To me, an anomaly would be something that happens only in a "perfect storm" scenario... An event or result that might only occur under exceptional circumstances, whereas a bug is something known that needs to be noted and navigated as a documented issue.
The fallout from this is two-fold
1> Not only would these anomalies not be included in training for the sub-postmasters, but they would also not be communicated as important information to branch trainers and help-desk staff
2> It is entirely plausible that internal investigators may not have realised or been made fully aware of the potential for these issues to be THE CAUSE of shortfalls and thus, they may go full steam ahead with prosecuting Sub-Postmasters
Additionally, advice given in select committees and to the press would have played down the relevance and import of these bugs
I have seldom seen such a clear example of narrative control
At the time the post office was part of Royal Mail group.
In 2011 The Postal Services Act was passed, paving the way for the separation of Royal Mail Group Ltd and Post Office Ltd in 2012 ahead of the privatisation of Royal Mail in 2013.
The Horizon system was first introduced from 1999
Seems to me that the government didn’t want a scandal to impact on the price of the Royal Mail, when it was finally privatised.
Hence the protection of the brand. This scandal I think goes deep into Westminster.
I thought that too.
Too much time is being spent on semantics, anomaly's, bugs, defects, glitches, errors, faults, code deficiencies all mean the same thing, The software was substandard and not fit for purpose.
She was incompetent and Paula's lap dog! She did whatever was needed to go higher.
Orwellian newspeak.
Post Office senior management and investigators ... Nefarious intent... Jail. Liars liars pants on fire.
They just would have got a different system to conduct their fraud. Scapegoating the technology is absurd.
this female dog should be jailed
So they used the word "anomaly" about system BUGS!?
A "bug" is NOT an anomaly - it's a failure of the system to do what it is suppossed to do - so it has been made incorrectly. It's not a passing thing, brought on by coincidence.
Finding a wild polar bear in Africa would be "an anomaly".
Liar, liar.
She is such a liar.
Until it was shown to her she said it was just a word she used
Then it’s a control word to be used
Nice....Water companies will now routinely use the phrase Anomaly whenever they tip millions of gallons of raw shit into our rivers... it's less emotive !
Wonder if AVDB gets irritated by everybody having a different way of pronouncing her name. Hope so
I bet it anomalies her
she sure doesn't seem to know much about anything, does she...?
What’s a none emotive phrase for getting sent down/doing time/doing porridge?
Lifestyle Anomaly ?