@@j4s0n67 Math and physics don't feel as indeterminate in terms of time spent learning. Feels a lot better to have someone more experienced than you help you debug. I've learned most of my calc and algorithms math subjects on my own without problem
Americans are banned from the industry the degree is trash (especially whites) unless your Indian/Chinese. I got replaced by Indians something like 5 times - 2 times in a row under Biden. It's over
Wrong they fire the Americans and keep the Indians. Americans (especially whites) are banned from all the best zio-tech jobs. Ethnic cleansing it's called
I have a CS degree and the layoffs hit me. 8 months later I still can't find anything despite an internshipt, a position, projects, good references, and a degree on my resume. Wouldn't be THAT opposed to finding a tech related trade
computer development has changed but computer science hasn't changed at all, if your sole focus was on application development(like web or mobile), it definitely isn't what it was before but if you want to focus on the science aspect of comp sci then there is no reason not to follow it.
The biggest problem is a lot of these jobs where I live in michigan always requires a CS/IT/ or equivelant degree in order to get your resume to pass HR filters. Just think about it, who do you think HR people will give an interview to, a college grad or someone who did a coding bootcamp? You're very lucky if these people even heard of what a coding bootcamp is.College is like traditions over here, it's expected for you to have a degree to be taken seriously, because the other job applicants have one so you should to is the expectations around here
@@QusaiAl-Ramadhani then theyll say why do you not have work experience already. Get the CS degree and theyll bring up something else on why youre not qualified. I have a CS degree, I cant get interviews because I dont have the 3 years of work experience these entry level jobs want, almost like the CS degree didnt matter anyways
@@abanoub7002 most of these jobs dont consider internships as experience because internships are 3 months. 3 months of summer internship is not seen as equivelant as a real job to these employers, even though i pretty much did a whole full time job while being paid 11 an hour
I also live in Michigan. All big companies are hiring software engineers from India. They pay them 2k USD per month in India whereas they would have to pay like 8k USD to the engineers based in the US so they can just work remotely from there or their headquarters based in India and because of that there are fewer and fewer jobs in our field.
Self learning is the way to go in my opinion. I’m at university right now and the majority of my practical experience/ applicable skills were from self learning 🤷♂️
@@Compsciuk I hear your opinion but it can be misleading as you basically contradicted yourself by saying self learning is the way to go yet you yourself studied at university, unless you’ve finished university and you think you should have carried on self learning that is another thing
Don’t agree, as someone graduating this year in cs just like you we have to remember it’s easy ash for us to say that when some things come pretty easy from the stuff we learned in university that doesn’t/didn’t seem that important. I couldn’t imagine learning some data structures on my own without at least having the lecture, going over in class with peers, assignments, and then testing. It’s easy ash for me to do a good amount of them now but while we were learning we fasho struggled. If your super determined then on your own is cool but if your not then CS is still strongest bet.
So many normies nowadays taking CS. They dont know anything about what their learning, just using chatgpt. Theres gonna be so many subpar programmers, but also more good ones.
@@yatsuto6088 It's not about the tools you use. It's about the finished product. Ultimately, you also should understand the code you are writing and why.
Year-over-year change in the US for software development positions are -44.8 % are down according to indeed data. And finding a job as an entry level developer is a nightmare.
If you want to be a software eng now days you absolutly need a degree, the golden days are gone and where i work the resumes of peoples without a master degree are put in the trash(i'm not kidding even if you have experience)
Self-study isnt anywere near as effective as learning in a formal education environment and we know because as the number of coding bootcamp grads and self-taught candidates increased, complains about new developers lacking key CS skills has increased with it.
Its jsut common sense. What to they think CS Students do all day ? Laughing and enjoying sun on campus ? Its arrogant to think that you can just visit a Boot Camp and get the same knowledge as someone who dedicates several years to CS. Its not possible for 99% of people. You will get into this field as the worse educated guy in the company in most cases. I am really sure that a lot of Tech Layoffs had the ones without degree laid of first.
@testtest-cu6sq There is this massive cope wave in the tech world, driven by social media inflencers, where they seriously believe that college is just meaningless hazing to check a box for a job and no one actually learns anything there.
You can use it for standard business jobs too. So you unlock the IT sector and business which is more than most. Perhaps, even the finance industry if you specialise more to AI and maths.
Unless you absolutely love CS, are willing to devote your free time to coding and learning more about architecture regarding software or hardware, right after multiple classes of coding and time-consuming homework, don't do it. If you're only going in because of your parents and could not care less, pack your bags and move out. It's not worth the debt, insanity of your parents, and inability to get a job after wasting 4 years. This job market is so bad, it's not even funny. My peers couldn't get a job for like a year, and they're not high-paying either.
The issue isn't that your peers are undevoted or unskilled, it's that the vast majority of positions are allocated to those with contact in the industry already (at least from what I've seen working for the last few years)
That’s me. I will grind through whatever the CS major teaches me but have no drive to learn new things on my own. In hindsight medicine is better suited for me. Where are you based?
@@SANIA-ko8hh You don't have to be but you'll be competing against those who are in a market that doesn't hire newbies. There are self taught engineers at Tesla. Just give it your all for as many years as you can
I did 2 years in Computer Science and seeing all these fresh high school graduates who already had years of experience and loved coding in their free time made me realize that Computer Science was a dead end career. It really isn't a smart play to go into a career with such steep competition for such mediocre pay. Those "big 6 figure jobs" are going to the programmers who already have 5-10 years of experience, which many careers can get you into the 6 figure range with a decade of experience anyways. Computer Science isn't special in that regard. Adding onto the AI bubble that is about to burst, the "lazy programmer" bubble got royally burst by Elon Musk when he took over Twitter. Notice how MASSIVE layoffs followed in nearly every tech company? Its because programmers where doing 2-5 hours of actual work a week and collecting six figure salaries, so the companies simply kept the fraction of programmers who were willing to work something resembling a fully work week for their inflated salaries.
Anyone who is looking for a job knows how sayurated it is. We have too many bootcamp programmers who suck at everything because they dont do the foundations (cause heycwhy would they have to when its not in their day to day job). We are in a desperate need for GOOD programmers and COMMITTED programers who can show up on time and stop complaining so much, aka college graduates 😅 not these modern day "pick me' programmers who watched youtube videos
I kinda disagree with this Now, hear me out, I majored in IT (not CS) and got my first software engineering role landed before i graduated college, and i know a lot of people who majored in CS (and IT, IS) with me. Like, for my major, I probably overachieved and did well to land my first job, what with 4 internships, a full portfolio, super involved in school and out of school, my own personal site, and experience at least pushing up apps to heroku (when heroku was free) But in all my overconfidence, the work life was rough, i had trouble asking for help when needed, i had some difficulties adapting to new tech despite this being touted as a skill of mine (i was a unity/gamemaker GML developer who just did 2 capstones back-to-back in LAMP PHP 3 and another capstone in express and did really well in those, while having done a class using OpenGL in C for a 3D game engines development class thay i barely got a B in the semester before) And all my job really entailed was Angular 2+ (angular 2 and typescript was brand new) and Java Springboot microservices Like, my manager, told me after like 5 years when i finally got a better job elsewhere, told me on my whole bon voyage meeting durint covid, he thought i wasnt going to make it in 2017 and flounder away... Like, i ultimately got through it, but i was really inexperienced to really handle being a part of a larger picture with people really relying on you to get your stuff done faster. And mind you, i did the global game jam with teams for 4 years, 5 hackathons between NJ/NY, and made small websites to get students involved in events, like im not trying to brag about my otherwise unfruitful endeavors, but i was the EXCEPTION to the rule. I went to work with 2 other guys from my university and one did SUPER well, basically got promoted with a year, another was in my spot, also trying to survive, but probably had it a little worse where the projects they were on werent helping them that they left first for a different company Like, everyone's experience is different. Some of the best developers i knew were self-taught, some of the managers i had were, and others were just complete wizards when it came to new tech. Id be more scared about the education and standards of NEW students, cuz, im seeing some of these kids out of fancy colleges looking at the prestige of a software job and think all you need are the classes. Like, i dont think the new generation are idiots where they want everything handed to them that older gens have spoiled them rotten Its just, theres so much informatoon telling people to do this or that, the choice paralysis of having to sift through all of this info to figure out what to do is nauseating, and doesnt help new students to learn To enjoy learning, and building, and to set GOOD goals.
sounds like projecting... You have to justify spending a lot of time and/or money on something when it's not necessary to be successful in this field. Do I think it can help? Yes, but IMO it helps mostly because You are hostage of Your debt. And no, I don't like boot camps, they are mostly a waste of money too. There are a lot of programmer wannabes basing their plans on dreams like "demand is higher than supply so I might get lucky, there is more job than people so I can try, looks so easy, it only requires pressing keyboard etc."; or ones that finished one bad boot camp and want work because they are "expert" programmers now, same as there are a lot of hustlers/"entrepreneurs" that finished online classes. That's the reality of a complex, rapidly changing profession that requires an open mind, especially if it looks easy enough on a surface level and like something that everyone can try; when in reality its too hard to learn for most of the people. CS will not turn You into a programmer; You will have to acquire foundations and become one whether You start Your journey with a diploma or not. You will have to learn new things/languages till the end of your career, so those few years (even if we would have some hypothetical, rapidly changing, self-adjusting perfect degree for a programmer, it would still take longer to make one) in college are nothing when compared to the whole career that You have to spend on learning. Impostor syndrome is a plague in this industry but it's not like it's there without any reason. That's the reality, this field is extremely hard and unforgiving; so there are two types of people in programming; those who are intelligent, hard-working and determined (and masochistic to some degree :D) enough, and those who aren't.
8 месяцев назад+5
nowadays this means nothing. I'm making computer science and a bunch of peope use chat gpt to cheat on their tests and not only that, You can learn everything of the course online for free. I agree a bootcamp doesn't make you a good programer, but it is the same for a colege degree. You is the only one who can turn yourself in a good one (this is not my case, I'm struggling a lot).
A college degree at least from my uni n Australia requires you to pass all of your classes, usually at a full time load. You cannot simply just use AI as there is detections etc. This means also that you were able to meet deadlines, you were able to meet specifications, you were responsible for yourself. A uni degree shows you understand an investment of money and I wouldn't hire a programmer who didn't understand this. Yes you can learn the content off google, hey that's how I pass my exams anyway. But uni is structured and gets you doing exactly what you need to be doing in the order required. Uni teaches you a lot more than you MUST know for a job, and as a consequence you understand the foundations and are better rather than someone online who didn't need to learn all of discrete mathematics just to use an if statement. A university degree is a million more times worth it than self taught. Not to mention outside of classes uni offers you clubs and societies for leadership experience. Teamwork experience, struggles etc and opportunities in the industry very often with partners through STUDENT internships.
5 years ago , In Japan , a finance company tested AI and all 40 employees got laid off after that . I guess governments around the globe don't want do mass layoff . because the consequence of that will be devastating. they don't want societies fall apart , But we will see people lose their jobs quietly .
The problem with the CS degree is that the powers that be at a company have unreasonable expectations of programmers because they don't understand the background of a computer professional. They think that a programmer can do business analysis, doling out assignments without a spec.
Self-study can be as good but it's much, much harder and need an incredible amount of discipline however bootcamps are not comparable to a degree as there the goal is completely different and you can never get anywhere close to the level of education you can with bootcamos alone.
it really depends, if you can learn efficiently you can self learn CS concepts quicker than in traditional degree program. If you cut and trim fillers take into consideration knowledge retaining abbility, you can cover in up to 2 years CS degree program for your desirable profession.
I notice lately are new hires with a CS degree understand the knowledge but struggle with implementing into projects we are working on. While are self taught and bootcamp hires can almost always jump in adding new concepts to the projects we are working on. Algorithms and data structures can be easily learned and most self taught employees have understand concepts enough to pass interview questions. Atm the company I work for has drop degree requirement and requires all applicants to have a portfolio based of requirements of the job. My hiring manager told me they don't even look at the education section anymore and it seem so due to our workforce being about 30% self taught or boot camp trained. My company is mid size we have 3-4k employees atm give or take. I'm self taught now work as a senior software engineer with 6 years experience in the field and my advice is build your portfolio by working on topics you just learned and when trying to apply to jobs build projects related to job descriptions on the position you want. Hackathons are great for networking and sharpen your skills.
The self taught people are jumping right in because they are not trained to think about the problem and implement algorithms which computer science students are trained for. They will make more mistakes in the long run. The students that you say are just warming up, down the line, they will be far better than the self taught ones generally. A major point you need to realise is in a CS degree you will need to self learn the concepts . So the only difference between the two is with CS students you know they’ve been exposed to these kinds of problems and thinking
@@cowliver1032 Its not coping. its a big difference if you think of longevity and cost and memory space and so on. But most companies dont need these experts. I would rather hire someone with a degree than someone that says "Trust me Bro". Of course there are good self taught devs but I would not risk to hire one.
@@testtest-cu6sq It's not trust me bro you have a full portfolio on all your projects you have done and you go through same algorithm, challenge questions during interview. The point in my main post is we are seeing more people who are self taught or coming out of community college with more understanding of algorithms and complex code. My hiring manger told me same thing except for degrees feels like it's piece a paper with no substance.
@@DK5TY Well around 25% have no degree in Tech as far as I know. So mathematically its better to make a degree to get a job. And if you want to get into Machine Learning or work as a Data Analyst you wont get far without a degree in most cases. Sometimes I think its a little bit arrogant to think that you can just visit a boot camp and get the same education as someone who dedicates several years to learn the craft. Of course there are people who can do it but its not a good advice for most people. Some people start playing soccer with 18 and get pro . But that does not mean that its best way to get into this field. Just my opinion. Since I studied CS I might be biased tho. For everyone that reads this and hs no chance to study: I dont want to say that there is no chance. Go for it and work hard and you will get there. Its just way harder and you have to build up a lot of trust before. In most countries you cant really negotiate about your salary for your first job without a degree.
Need advise how can i get into another field without going to college again? I graduated with a CS degree and still unemployed. Im burned out always updating my skills for nothing such a waste of time. Please help. 😢
@ManmayPrasad-xl7fw I honestly don't recommend you to pursue this degree since it's hard to get a job and you always need to learn something new because every job requires something different. It's very high stress.
Well if that's the case then why won't ai take over all the fields in existence? Right so go for your passion and keep urself updated as in ur career wise
I am enrolling for a CS degree at WGU. I am 23 with 6 years of experience in software. Started programming at 13. This stuff just comes more naturally to me. I didnt get a degree due to cost but now at least enough to fund a this very specific degree at this very specific school. Just seems like the right thing to do. It will fill in knowledge gaps and be a boost to a resume. I do think you should only do if it if you love working with computers. I've worked with CS majors who taught me A LOT but I've also worked with CS majors who barely got by. It does feel like one of those fields where passion is king. I just got lucky by discovering it early tbh, I am so fortunate and grateful for that.
@SANIA-ko8hh No not at all, the internet just makes it seem like that. You just entered the workforce and/or college age bro. You have time. So do I, 23 isnt old either. However, ONLY go into CS if you are passionate about technology and computers. It is an amazing career if you like the topics, it would be a soul-crushing career otherwise. I didn't know I loved this field until I researched how games are made and fell in love with that. Maybe something similar can happen to you. Good luck either way and seriously, don't stress too hard. You have time and a whole life in front of you, enjoy it. I already miss 18-19 and that was just a few short years ago. It is a special time of life.
@@bedtimestories1065are you still in university for CS now? Or have you started a career? I am very curious since I decided to major in CS but now am seeing it might not be a good idea.
I also will be graduating this semester. It absolutely is worth it. But it's not enough with the current state of the market. You need to specialize and treat "good to haves" on job applications as "musts".
I'm in CS degree on my first years. im quite good at it, but i don't know what to follow between Data Scientist or BigData or Cybersecurity. Is there someone with experience to give his opinion and maybe help me decide ?
Take cyber security that's where real I.T. is. Data Scientist is mostly for statistical office and surveys. BigData makes you focus on SQL and how you store things in some Data Bucket called S3 and other stuff but I say Cyber Security industry is what really I.T. is. since WW2.
@@saidkallaAi will replace software engineer because the cyber security and data science is mostly based on human brain working capabilities and it would be a bit or quite difficult for Ai to do these stuff. In my opinion cyber security is good
Or just study cyber security if not look at the actual curriculums of degrees similar to CIS or Computer Science, etc, usually you’ll find if Cyber Security is apart of it, either way I believe you need a masters to even get into that field
I took data analytics, and it's not directly related, but it helps you deep dive in the details; much like a detective. This skill will help you see the patterns and trends. But if you already have an analytical mind, you may not have to. Just my 2 cents.
Should I get a cs degree or go to a boot camp? A brutally honest and realistic answer? I failed university at 20 and now I just switched my major 5 times at 22 in community college. Rn I feel like a tunnel with no end? i might graduate college at 25-26 and if I need a college degree, How do I avoid using student loans?
in the same boat. i’m 20 years old i dropped coding a year ago and started my path in sales. make about 70k a year. i want to go back in the programming but don’t wanna go to college for it if not needed 😭
With how competitive entry level positions have become I would definitely go to college. You will put yourself at a pretty significant disadvantage else wise, along with a degree you will need a great resume and unique projects.
They don't care about your degree(trust me I've had to hire a bunch of them for my business). All they look at is your portfolio and your CV. Ultimately if you are a focused person you can gain way more value studying on your own rather than going to college. As it is all about building your portfolio and since the travel time to college combined with the fact that schools and colleges teach at the speed appealing to the lowest common denominator. This makes this a better prospect overall(atleast for me).
since you said community college I suppose you are in the US. Try to secure internships or Canadian co-ops before graduation. In Canada, companies have an incentive to hire currently enrolled students. I have a fantastic GPA with 7-8 projects and a CS degree from Canada, but no offer or interviews over 4 months. If I had a time machine, I would probably go into pharma instead.
@@legenddairy8346 nobody has mentioned the phrase community college tho? Also you love in Canada, so ofc you're having a hard time finding a job(y'all are literally having a globally known employment crisis 💀)
We will see, but I think this is BS. We will likely need more skilled devs, especially if we introduce AI, to follow up the growing demand for secure, maintainable and working code.
@@davidjulitz7446 skilled devs, how to become skilled if nobody want to hire you if everyone uses gpt. Go to school for 3 or 4 years and then maybe 5 more years do it full time on your own time to become skilled?
Y'know, computer science isnt going to get you a sys admin job when theres a major that gets you CERTIFIED to be one right next to them And has more programming classes (potentially) Teaches software design (potentially) Has the DAS and Algos classes if you so choose And doesnt have all of the math Information Technology degrees
Also game development. I majored in it. The cs folks could get jobs in it But you have to specialize and FOCUS on making games in college. For dev, it isnt just unity or gamemaker or unreal or godot, companies have requirements for what their interviews entail And toby fox made undertale in Gamemaker If that doesnt tell you the bologna about how to break into the industry, i dunno what will... Toby fox, and this isnt a slight at him, hes honestly amazing for having done the games and art hes done, is a terrible programmer. And he managed to make arguably one of the most influential indie games of the 2010's
In my college the IS degree is quite litterally the easier, inferior and watered down version of the cs degree. Its for students who enroll im cs and perform poorly, they get thrown into IS with way easier courses and no programming. So, idk if thats good advice for everyone.
@@prico3358 Know first hand. Similarly, just because someone knows English doesn't mean they can write a good novel or poem. It's just a tool, an amazing one, but still just a tool. One has to do something with it obviously.
Now you make something with it. When I do a C.S. major, I'm going to make sure to get involved in coding projects so I'm not just a bot memorizing info.
You are describing a 2019 old reality. In 2024 the hiring is almost 100% outsourced to India, and they pay attention almost only to American issued degrees. Their society still implements a caste system and they are ruthless, liars, scammers and rude AF. If you don’t pass their discriminatory filters, you won’t even have the opportunity to get a technical interview. I think a cheap AS in Computer Programming (not an AA path degree) in your local community college (7K the whole course) is a good decision instead of paying 20K for bootcamp or 200K for a BS in Computer Science. But my point is that sadly you are talking about old news. You do need at least some sort of minimum of traditional education in 2024.
Some people really love to hate an entire race just because they are similarly or more skillful than them even after having much less luxury and opportunities. Rather than becoming skillful one will prefer ranting on RUclips comments than he is bound to lose his job to those who are working hard in silence
thats a bold statement. AI wont ever COMPLETELY take over ALL jobs. It actually also creates new job opportunities too.plus it will still require huans to govern the usage of AI in most professional settings. AI wont “take over” our jobs, it’ll just be working alongside us
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Is it still worth now after the release of Gemini and sora AI
The amount of stuff you learn on your own is overwhelming.
yeah valid point but isn't that also true with other subjects such as maths or physics?
@@j4s0n67 Math and physics don't feel as indeterminate in terms of time spent learning. Feels a lot better to have someone more experienced than you help you debug. I've learned most of my calc and algorithms math subjects on my own without problem
Americans are banned from the industry the degree is trash (especially whites) unless your Indian/Chinese. I got replaced by Indians something like 5 times - 2 times in a row under Biden. It's over
If a company does layoffs, they will lay off the people without CS degree first. I seen it happened.
Wrong they fire the Americans and keep the Indians. Americans (especially whites) are banned from all the best zio-tech jobs. Ethnic cleansing it's called
I have a CS degree and the layoffs hit me. 8 months later I still can't find anything despite an internshipt, a position, projects, good references, and a degree on my resume. Wouldn't be THAT opposed to finding a tech related trade
@@ambiarock590you need multiple internships
they often lay off those who are less qualified
computer development has changed but computer science hasn't changed at all, if your sole focus was on application development(like web or mobile), it definitely isn't what it was before but if you want to focus on the science aspect of comp sci then there is no reason not to follow it.
The biggest problem is a lot of these jobs where I live in michigan always requires a CS/IT/ or equivelant degree in order to get your resume to pass HR filters. Just think about it, who do you think HR people will give an interview to, a college grad or someone who did a coding bootcamp? You're very lucky if these people even heard of what a coding bootcamp is.College is like traditions over here, it's expected for you to have a degree to be taken seriously, because the other job applicants have one so you should to is the expectations around here
Then maybe you should have CS degree and stop whining!
@@QusaiAl-Ramadhani then theyll say why do you not have work experience already. Get the CS degree and theyll bring up something else on why youre not qualified. I have a CS degree, I cant get interviews because I dont have the 3 years of work experience these entry level jobs want, almost like the CS degree didnt matter anyways
tbf, you could try to get experience from internships
@@abanoub7002 most of these jobs dont consider internships as experience because internships are 3 months. 3 months of summer internship is not seen as equivelant as a real job to these employers, even though i pretty much did a whole full time job while being paid 11 an hour
I also live in Michigan. All big companies are hiring software engineers from India. They pay them 2k USD per month in India whereas they would have to pay like 8k USD to the engineers based in the US so they can just work remotely from there or their headquarters based in India and because of that there are fewer and fewer jobs in our field.
Self learning is the way to go in my opinion. I’m at university right now and the majority of my practical experience/ applicable skills were from self learning 🤷♂️
Yet you still chose to go to university for the degree
@@danteedwards9254 This is my opinion now as a CS Student, if I hadn’t gone to uni my opinion would probably be a bit different
@@Compsciuk I hear your opinion but it can be misleading as you basically contradicted yourself by saying self learning is the way to go yet you yourself studied at university, unless you’ve finished university and you think you should have carried on self learning that is another thing
@@Compsciuk Ohhh so you would have rather carried on self learning. Okok I see
Don’t agree, as someone graduating this year in cs just like you we have to remember it’s easy ash for us to say that when some things come pretty easy from the stuff we learned in university that doesn’t/didn’t seem that important. I couldn’t imagine learning some data structures on my own without at least having the lecture, going over in class with peers, assignments, and then testing. It’s easy ash for me to do a good amount of them now but while we were learning we fasho struggled. If your super determined then on your own is cool but if your not then CS is still strongest bet.
So many normies nowadays taking CS. They dont know anything about what their learning, just using chatgpt. Theres gonna be so many subpar programmers, but also more good ones.
I think I belong to the subpar, eventho Ive not started it yet
How? The job interviews are hard and the assessments are too. How would they be subpar programmers if the barrier is entry so hard?
Lol I feel so called out. I was using chatgpt when I saw your comment 😂
@@yatsuto6088 It's not about the tools you use. It's about the finished product. Ultimately, you also should understand the code you are writing and why.
@@donaldazevedo5554 true
Year-over-year change in the US for software development positions are -44.8 % are down according to indeed data. And finding a job as an entry level developer is a nightmare.
what other jobs as a computer science major are easier to get at entry level.
If you want to be a software eng now days you absolutly need a degree, the golden days are gone and where i work the resumes of peoples without a master degree are put in the trash(i'm not kidding even if you have experience)
Self-study isnt anywere near as effective as learning in a formal education environment and we know because as the number of coding bootcamp grads and self-taught candidates increased, complains about new developers lacking key CS skills has increased with it.
Its jsut common sense. What to they think CS Students do all day ? Laughing and enjoying sun on campus ? Its arrogant to think that you can just visit a Boot Camp and get the same knowledge as someone who dedicates several years to CS. Its not possible for 99% of people. You will get into this field as the worse educated guy in the company in most cases. I am really sure that a lot of Tech Layoffs had the ones without degree laid of first.
@testtest-cu6sq There is this massive cope wave in the tech world, driven by social media inflencers, where they seriously believe that college is just meaningless hazing to check a box for a job and no one actually learns anything there.
💯 its never too late to get your degree
You can use it for standard business jobs too. So you unlock the IT sector and business which is more than most. Perhaps, even the finance industry if you specialise more to AI and maths.
Unless you absolutely love CS, are willing to devote your free time to coding and learning more about architecture regarding software or hardware, right after multiple classes of coding and time-consuming homework, don't do it. If you're only going in because of your parents and could not care less, pack your bags and move out. It's not worth the debt, insanity of your parents, and inability to get a job after wasting 4 years.
This job market is so bad, it's not even funny. My peers couldn't get a job for like a year, and they're not high-paying either.
The issue isn't that your peers are undevoted or unskilled, it's that the vast majority of positions are allocated to those with contact in the industry already (at least from what I've seen working for the last few years)
That’s me. I will grind through whatever the CS major teaches me but have no drive to learn new things on my own. In hindsight medicine is better suited for me.
Where are you based?
Question but did they graduate from a good college or
@@SANIA-ko8hh You don't have to be but you'll be competing against those who are in a market that doesn't hire newbies. There are self taught engineers at Tesla. Just give it your all for as many years as you can
I did 2 years in Computer Science and seeing all these fresh high school graduates who already had years of experience and loved coding in their free time made me realize that Computer Science was a dead end career. It really isn't a smart play to go into a career with such steep competition for such mediocre pay. Those "big 6 figure jobs" are going to the programmers who already have 5-10 years of experience, which many careers can get you into the 6 figure range with a decade of experience anyways. Computer Science isn't special in that regard. Adding onto the AI bubble that is about to burst, the "lazy programmer" bubble got royally burst by Elon Musk when he took over Twitter. Notice how MASSIVE layoffs followed in nearly every tech company? Its because programmers where doing 2-5 hours of actual work a week and collecting six figure salaries, so the companies simply kept the fraction of programmers who were willing to work something resembling a fully work week for their inflated salaries.
Anyone who is looking for a job knows how sayurated it is. We have too many bootcamp programmers who suck at everything because they dont do the foundations (cause heycwhy would they have to when its not in their day to day job). We are in a desperate need for GOOD programmers and COMMITTED programers who can show up on time and stop complaining so much, aka college graduates 😅 not these modern day "pick me' programmers who watched youtube videos
So much bitterness.
I kinda disagree with this
Now, hear me out, I majored in IT (not CS) and got my first software engineering role landed before i graduated college, and i know a lot of people who majored in CS (and IT, IS) with me.
Like, for my major, I probably overachieved and did well to land my first job, what with 4 internships, a full portfolio, super involved in school and out of school, my own personal site, and experience at least pushing up apps to heroku (when heroku was free)
But in all my overconfidence, the work life was rough, i had trouble asking for help when needed, i had some difficulties adapting to new tech despite this being touted as a skill of mine (i was a unity/gamemaker GML developer who just did 2 capstones back-to-back in LAMP PHP 3 and another capstone in express and did really well in those, while having done a class using OpenGL in C for a 3D game engines development class thay i barely got a B in the semester before)
And all my job really entailed was Angular 2+ (angular 2 and typescript was brand new) and Java Springboot microservices
Like, my manager, told me after like 5 years when i finally got a better job elsewhere, told me on my whole bon voyage meeting durint covid, he thought i wasnt going to make it in 2017 and flounder away...
Like, i ultimately got through it, but i was really inexperienced to really handle being a part of a larger picture with people really relying on you to get your stuff done faster.
And mind you, i did the global game jam with teams for 4 years, 5 hackathons between NJ/NY, and made small websites to get students involved in events, like im not trying to brag about my otherwise unfruitful endeavors, but i was the EXCEPTION to the rule. I went to work with 2 other guys from my university and one did SUPER well, basically got promoted with a year, another was in my spot, also trying to survive, but probably had it a little worse where the projects they were on werent helping them that they left first for a different company
Like, everyone's experience is different. Some of the best developers i knew were self-taught, some of the managers i had were, and others were just complete wizards when it came to new tech.
Id be more scared about the education and standards of NEW students, cuz, im seeing some of these kids out of fancy colleges looking at the prestige of a software job and think all you need are the classes. Like, i dont think the new generation are idiots where they want everything handed to them that older gens have spoiled them rotten
Its just, theres so much informatoon telling people to do this or that, the choice paralysis of having to sift through all of this info to figure out what to do is nauseating, and doesnt help new students to learn
To enjoy learning, and building, and to set GOOD goals.
sounds like projecting... You have to justify spending a lot of time and/or money on something when it's not necessary to be successful in this field. Do I think it can help? Yes, but IMO it helps mostly because You are hostage of Your debt. And no, I don't like boot camps, they are mostly a waste of money too.
There are a lot of programmer wannabes basing their plans on dreams like "demand is higher than supply so I might get lucky, there is more job than people so I can try, looks so easy, it only requires pressing keyboard etc."; or ones that finished one bad boot camp and want work because they are "expert" programmers now, same as there are a lot of hustlers/"entrepreneurs" that finished online classes. That's the reality of a complex, rapidly changing profession that requires an open mind, especially if it looks easy enough on a surface level and like something that everyone can try; when in reality its too hard to learn for most of the people.
CS will not turn You into a programmer; You will have to acquire foundations and become one whether You start Your journey with a diploma or not. You will have to learn new things/languages till the end of your career, so those few years (even if we would have some hypothetical, rapidly changing, self-adjusting perfect degree for a programmer, it would still take longer to make one) in college are nothing when compared to the whole career that You have to spend on learning.
Impostor syndrome is a plague in this industry but it's not like it's there without any reason. That's the reality, this field is extremely hard and unforgiving; so there are two types of people in programming; those who are intelligent, hard-working and determined (and masochistic to some degree :D) enough, and those who aren't.
nowadays this means nothing. I'm making computer science and a bunch of peope use chat gpt to cheat on their tests and not only that, You can learn everything of the course online for free. I agree a bootcamp doesn't make you a good programer, but it is the same for a colege degree. You is the only one who can turn yourself in a good one (this is not my case, I'm struggling a lot).
A college degree at least from my uni n Australia requires you to pass all of your classes, usually at a full time load. You cannot simply just use AI as there is detections etc. This means also that you were able to meet deadlines, you were able to meet specifications, you were responsible for yourself. A uni degree shows you understand an investment of money and I wouldn't hire a programmer who didn't understand this. Yes you can learn the content off google, hey that's how I pass my exams anyway. But uni is structured and gets you doing exactly what you need to be doing in the order required. Uni teaches you a lot more than you MUST know for a job, and as a consequence you understand the foundations and are better rather than someone online who didn't need to learn all of discrete mathematics just to use an if statement. A university degree is a million more times worth it than self taught. Not to mention outside of classes uni offers you clubs and societies for leadership experience. Teamwork experience, struggles etc and opportunities in the industry very often with partners through STUDENT internships.
5 years ago , In Japan , a finance company tested AI and all 40 employees got laid off after that . I guess governments around the globe don't want do mass layoff . because the consequence of that will be devastating. they don't want societies fall apart , But we will see people lose their jobs quietly .
The problem with the CS degree is that the powers that be at a company have unreasonable expectations of programmers because they don't understand the background of a computer professional. They think that a programmer can do business analysis, doling out assignments without a spec.
Self-study can be as good but it's much, much harder and need an incredible amount of discipline however bootcamps are not comparable to a degree as there the goal is completely different and you can never get anywhere close to the level of education you can with bootcamos alone.
it really depends, if you can learn efficiently you can self learn CS concepts quicker than in traditional degree program. If you cut and trim fillers take into consideration knowledge retaining abbility, you can cover in up to 2 years CS degree program for your desirable profession.
I notice lately are new hires with a CS degree understand the knowledge but struggle with implementing into projects we are working on. While are self taught and bootcamp hires can almost always jump in adding new concepts to the projects we are working on. Algorithms and data structures can be easily learned and most self taught employees have understand concepts enough to pass interview questions. Atm the company I work for has drop degree requirement and requires all applicants to have a portfolio based of requirements of the job. My hiring manager told me they don't even look at the education section anymore and it seem so due to our workforce being about 30% self taught or boot camp trained. My company is mid size we have 3-4k employees atm give or take. I'm self taught now work as a senior software engineer with 6 years experience in the field and my advice is build your portfolio by working on topics you just learned and when trying to apply to jobs build projects related to job descriptions on the position you want. Hackathons are great for networking and sharpen your skills.
The self taught people are jumping right in because they are not trained to think about the problem and implement algorithms which computer science students are trained for. They will make more mistakes in the long run.
The students that you say are just warming up, down the line, they will be far better than the self taught ones generally.
A major point you need to realise is in a CS degree you will need to self learn the concepts . So the only difference between the two is with CS students you know they’ve been exposed to these kinds of problems and thinking
@@cowliver1032 cope bruh
@@cowliver1032 Its not coping. its a big difference if you think of longevity and cost and memory space and so on. But most companies dont need these experts. I would rather hire someone with a degree than someone that says "Trust me Bro". Of course there are good self taught devs but I would not risk to hire one.
@@testtest-cu6sq It's not trust me bro you have a full portfolio on all your projects you have done and you go through same algorithm, challenge questions during interview. The point in my main post is we are seeing more people who are self taught or coming out of community college with more understanding of algorithms and complex code. My hiring manger told me same thing except for degrees feels like it's piece a paper with no substance.
@@DK5TY Well around 25% have no degree in Tech as far as I know. So mathematically its better to make a degree to get a job. And if you want to get into Machine Learning or work as a Data Analyst you wont get far without a degree in most cases.
Sometimes I think its a little bit arrogant to think that you can just visit a boot camp and get the same education as someone who dedicates several years to learn the craft. Of course there are people who can do it but its not a good advice for most people. Some people start playing soccer with 18 and get pro . But that does not mean that its best way to get into this field. Just my opinion. Since I studied CS I might be biased tho.
For everyone that reads this and hs no chance to study: I dont want to say that there is no chance. Go for it and work hard and you will get there. Its just way harder and you have to build up a lot of trust before. In most countries you cant really negotiate about your salary for your first job without a degree.
Need advise how can i get into another field without going to college again? I graduated with a CS degree and still unemployed. Im burned out always updating my skills for nothing such a waste of time.
Please help. 😢
@@yadigss I want you to suggest me please cause I'm about to persue cs degree but afraid of the job facilities n market
@ManmayPrasad-xl7fw I honestly don't recommend you to pursue this degree since it's hard to get a job and you always need to learn something new because every job requires something different. It's very high stress.
eh theres still a risk of losing your job maybe not from AI but you can still get layoff.
thanks this was very insightful
well ai is going to take over accounting so what should i take cyber security ugh help me someone please i have like 40 days to decide
Well if that's the case then why won't ai take over all the fields in existence? Right so go for your passion and keep urself updated as in ur career wise
AI won't take over accounting any time soon if it ever does happen. Humans cannot be replaced.
You’re right on accounting. Do computer science if you like computers and narrow it down later
Take computer science and then get the certs you need for cyber security. Cyber security doesn't really have an every level role without experience
thank you, I will. @@jasonproctor9896
I am enrolling for a CS degree at WGU. I am 23 with 6 years of experience in software. Started programming at 13. This stuff just comes more naturally to me. I didnt get a degree due to cost but now at least enough to fund a this very specific degree at this very specific school. Just seems like the right thing to do. It will fill in knowledge gaps and be a boost to a resume. I do think you should only do if it if you love working with computers. I've worked with CS majors who taught me A LOT but I've also worked with CS majors who barely got by. It does feel like one of those fields where passion is king. I just got lucky by discovering it early tbh, I am so fortunate and grateful for that.
@SANIA-ko8hh No not at all, the internet just makes it seem like that. You just entered the workforce and/or college age bro. You have time. So do I, 23 isnt old either. However, ONLY go into CS if you are passionate about technology and computers. It is an amazing career if you like the topics, it would be a soul-crushing career otherwise. I didn't know I loved this field until I researched how games are made and fell in love with that. Maybe something similar can happen to you. Good luck either way and seriously, don't stress too hard. You have time and a whole life in front of you, enjoy it. I already miss 18-19 and that was just a few short years ago. It is a special time of life.
@@bedtimestories1065are you still in university for CS now? Or have you started a career? I am very curious since I decided to major in CS but now am seeing it might not be a good idea.
No it isn't. And I say this as someone who'll be graduating with one this semester.
But you are automatically biased
why?
I also will be graduating this semester.
It absolutely is worth it. But it's not enough with the current state of the market. You need to specialize and treat "good to haves" on job applications as "musts".
A degree is only worth it when you don't have it.
Say that after you've graduated with a good degree. It's absolutely worth it.
The video I was looking for
I'm in CS degree on my first years. im quite good at it, but i don't know what to follow between Data Scientist or BigData or Cybersecurity. Is there someone with experience to give his opinion and maybe help me decide ?
It is solely based on your interest, which route do you like the most? I personally like Cybersecurity.
Cybersecurity!
Take cyber security that's where real I.T. is. Data Scientist is mostly for statistical office and surveys. BigData makes you focus on SQL and how you store things in some Data Bucket called S3 and other stuff but I say Cyber Security industry is what really I.T. is. since WW2.
@@myke9137 bro,which do you think will be replaced by ai first?,between data scince,software enginering,or cyber security
@@saidkallaAi will replace software engineer because the cyber security and data science is mostly based on human brain working capabilities and it would be a bit or quite difficult for Ai to do these stuff. In my opinion cyber security is good
If i want to work in cybersecurity should i study data analytics
Or just study cyber security if not look at the actual curriculums of degrees similar to CIS or Computer Science, etc, usually you’ll find if Cyber Security is apart of it, either way I believe you need a masters to even get into that field
I took data analytics, and it's not directly related, but it helps you deep dive in the details; much like a detective. This skill will help you see the patterns and trends. But if you already have an analytical mind, you may not have to. Just my 2 cents.
Those are OLD Numbers.
graduated in 2023 december. still looking for jobs. this is super stressful.
ok what are your qualifications?
@@elvinbaez3288 Bachelors in computer science. bunch of projects and some work.
@@sameerroshan9542 how is it now. Could you also expand on what projects you did and perhaps what country you live in
@@supersaj1536 did some java and python projects. I am in USA. Have some experience in test automation in python. Still looking for a job.
Do a trade like an electrician, much better. But if you actually like programming, it's easy.
Do you have to crawl into tight spaces as an electrician?
@@tobewanad I was going to reply with a mum joke, but I don't actually know. Is there a sparky here that can answer this question?
tried that. never wanted to die more. it is not for everyone and i am sick of everyone treating it like it is
Trades suck and you’ll be treated like dirt by everyone. Do something hard and more fulfilling with your life.
@@gregorygimiglianoGood lord what an awful take.
There is another degree related to CS that will be useful for game development? I'm trying to escape mathematics classes
Should I get a cs degree or go to a boot camp? A brutally honest and realistic answer? I failed university at 20 and now I just switched my major 5 times at 22 in community college. Rn I feel like a tunnel with no end? i might graduate college at 25-26 and if I need a college degree, How do I avoid using student loans?
in the same boat. i’m 20 years old i dropped coding a year ago and started my path in sales. make about 70k a year. i want to go back in the programming but don’t wanna go to college for it if not needed 😭
With how competitive entry level positions have become I would definitely go to college. You will put yourself at a pretty significant disadvantage else wise, along with a degree you will need a great resume and unique projects.
They don't care about your degree(trust me I've had to hire a bunch of them for my business). All they look at is your portfolio and your CV. Ultimately if you are a focused person you can gain way more value studying on your own rather than going to college. As it is all about building your portfolio and since the travel time to college combined with the fact that schools and colleges teach at the speed appealing to the lowest common denominator. This makes this a better prospect overall(atleast for me).
since you said community college I suppose you are in the US. Try to secure internships or Canadian co-ops before graduation. In Canada, companies have an incentive to hire currently enrolled students. I have a fantastic GPA with 7-8 projects and a CS degree from Canada, but no offer or interviews over 4 months. If I had a time machine, I would probably go into pharma instead.
@@legenddairy8346 nobody has mentioned the phrase community college tho? Also you love in Canada, so ofc you're having a hard time finding a job(y'all are literally having a globally known employment crisis 💀)
Simple say are it best option to take computer science in 11th?
I’m currently only interested in AI and automation
And will pick python programming language since it’s best for AI and machine learning
Is degree from UOPeople in CS worth it?
Gpt - 5 write a code for you and can debug it even better than a human . so tell me what are you gonna do ?
We will see, but I think this is BS. We will likely need more skilled devs, especially if we introduce AI, to follow up the growing demand for secure, maintainable and working code.
@@davidjulitz7446 skilled devs, how to become skilled if nobody want to hire you if everyone uses gpt. Go to school for 3 or 4 years and then maybe 5 more years do it full time on your own time to become skilled?
Y'know, computer science isnt going to get you a sys admin job when theres a major that gets you CERTIFIED to be one right next to them
And has more programming classes (potentially)
Teaches software design (potentially)
Has the DAS and Algos classes if you so choose
And doesnt have all of the math
Information Technology degrees
Also game development.
I majored in it. The cs folks could get jobs in it
But you have to specialize and FOCUS on making games in college.
For dev, it isnt just unity or gamemaker or unreal or godot, companies have requirements for what their interviews entail
And toby fox made undertale in Gamemaker
If that doesnt tell you the bologna about how to break into the industry, i dunno what will...
Toby fox, and this isnt a slight at him, hes honestly amazing for having done the games and art hes done, is a terrible programmer. And he managed to make arguably one of the most influential indie games of the 2010's
What about a sofware engineering degree
In my college the IS degree is quite litterally the easier, inferior and watered down version of the cs degree. Its for students who enroll im cs and perform poorly, they get thrown into IS with way easier courses and no programming. So, idk if thats good advice for everyone.
@zuck9090 it's horrible advice
Being good with a language like Python is like being good with hammers. Ok you know hammers. Now what?
Is this something you infer, or seen? I infer this too, but i have no real clue.
@@prico3358 Know first hand. Similarly, just because someone knows English doesn't mean they can write a good novel or poem. It's just a tool, an amazing one, but still just a tool. One has to do something with it obviously.
Now you make something with it. When I do a C.S. major, I'm going to make sure to get involved in coding projects so I'm not just a bot memorizing info.
I'm doing my N.D program currently and i want to go into cyber security, please what are the steps to follow help please.
wait, I already have my degree in CS lol
You are describing a 2019 old reality. In 2024 the hiring is almost 100% outsourced to India, and they pay attention almost only to American issued degrees. Their society still implements a caste system and they are ruthless, liars, scammers and rude AF. If you don’t pass their discriminatory filters, you won’t even have the opportunity to get a technical interview. I think a cheap AS in Computer Programming (not an AA path degree) in your local community college (7K the whole course) is a good decision instead of paying 20K for bootcamp or 200K for a BS in Computer Science. But my point is that sadly you are talking about old news. You do need at least some sort of minimum of traditional education in 2024.
dont be so rude, what if you were born in India in your next life?
Critique of an oppressive caste system is not a critique of the Indian individual rather an opressive system that propitiates poverty and colorism
@@harshnaik6989then he's well prepared how to act lol
Some people really love to hate an entire race just because they are similarly or more skillful than them even after having much less luxury and opportunities. Rather than becoming skillful one will prefer ranting on RUclips comments than he is bound to lose his job to those who are working hard in silence
Absolutely in agreement. They're all getting outsourced to India and they all implement a caste system
I believe that going to university and college is not worth it anymore. AI will take away all of these jobs .
thats a bold statement. AI wont ever COMPLETELY take over ALL jobs. It actually also creates new job opportunities too.plus it will still require huans to govern the usage of AI in most professional settings. AI wont “take over” our jobs, it’ll just be working alongside us
Look at the latest Google experimental AI then you will know why AI is so overhyped
Can I become Data scientist from BSc in CIS ?
Data scientists have all sorts of degrees, so yes if you acquire the right skills.
Do you know where i could get training for Data Analytics?@@learnwithlukas
CS will be forgotten!