@AmanManazir sir please sir I want you to guide me on my new course am about to start this new enroll I wanted to study software engineering for my degree but the course they offering in the university is Bachelor of Computer Application so is it bad to study start?
I am getting a degree only for the high ranking cybersec jobs as I am 12 years into the industey. Can't care any less about programming, though. But I need the piece of paper.
@@dieglhix it’s good to understand programming however , best believe the most valuable person is the members of the team who can communicate with other members. All programmers should know some network , security , etc , just as all high level IT professionals should know some code too .
@@ci6516 I know a lot of command line and powershell, some basic programming but I won't go deep diving because it's not of personal interest and AI tools can do a lot of the work... I study a lot of other IT things not related to programming which are also very needed in the industry
It's also considered an accolade. Many companies, such as Jane Street, love to hire and consider students from Ivy League colleges compared to other colleges.
The problem with video like this, is that prolly almost nobody will see it before going into college, yt algorithm works in such a way that it will recommend it to people who either already are in college or finished it already. Almost everybody learns this the hard way, especially if you listen to old people, who have NO IDEA how this industry works
In the 90s my job description was Electronics Technician, but I was mostly coding. Using the University library, I was trying to learn software engineering, but all the books titled Software Engineering were about managing teams. These books were useless for a 1 person team.
Same here I studied EE and I knew more about actually coding operating systems and embedded systems that a MSc that we had in the same company. Simply because we had to build a single board computer and make it control certain things like heavy motors and lights etc. And then we had to build a basic OS to actually run two applications "concurrently".
So exactly what would it be called because I use to think the same way and tried different types of programming and it all felt the same just a different language
I'm a junior in college, and I have a 4.0 in computer science. My minor is software engineering and I still have to work to learn programming. I agree and relate to this video! I graduate next year and I know how to code but It's still doesn't feel like I know enough. I have been told to start projects and I have started and completed some. I still feel like there is so much more to know and I still don't know many programming concepts or fundamentals! I still have to rely on other resources! College just doesn't teach the necessary skills required to be effective in the tech industry. I have learned if I want it I must learn lots of information and develop skills on my own! It's challenging, You have to love a challenge! I love the challenges of programming, and there are so many!!! LOL there's nothing more rewarding to me than to figure something out no matter how frustrating it is or how long it takes!
i about to study CS and when i went to the study program i found out that there is a whole subject called softwear enginering in one of the semesters so i dont know if that's only my collage. so did you study SWE in your collage?
In a proper college or university. throughout the course of your degree, you will get some form of software engineering major/module. In my University it's called Informatics, where we learn basic concepts of SWE. You can then choose to further your studies on what you want to specialise on as a postgraduate. Or just create a good enough portfolio and learn on the Job. Do not let videos like these discourage you. Not everything works for everyone, and also consider that you might not be at the same region or country as him where the industry is a bit different.
Right here with you bro, always learning and self learning more now even as a Senior cs major, took all my hardest classes junior year so now I have a whole year ish to make my own projects and really beef up my resume with some experience, but still, just doesn’t feel like I know enough to fit in the tech industry yet, but yessir that challenge and the feeling of accomplishment is what we chase, here’s to good luck for all of us aspiring computer science majors or whatever it may be, just people trying to get their foot in the door and succeed in this tough tech field
@@benzemamumba if everyone is a superhero, there is no one to save, so the superheroes don't have anyone to save. So, the super heroes are just individuals with superpowers. Thus, no one is a superhero.
My favorite part of CS, is how anything theorized can be created perfectly in code. Now, it may not always be the best use of a given technology, but that closeness between theory and practice is not there in other fields of engineering.
Computer Science is the theory, Software Engineering is the practical application of that theory to real-life tasks. EDIT: It appears as though Computer Science actually covers both the theory and practical application of technology. Software Engineering appears to be a sub-section of CS that solely covers the practical application side of things when designing and implementing software systems. See the Wikipedia pages for both Computer Science and Software Engineering for further information.
Reading up on it more, it appears as though Computer Science actually covers both the theory and practical application of technology. Software Engineering appears to be a sub-section of CS that solely covers the practical application side of things when designing and implementing software systems. My bad! I will update my original comment to reflect that. See the Wikipedia pages for both Computer Science and Software Engineering for further content.
A bit of clickbait and a kinda a bad take. You essentially need a CS degree and there is no SWE degree at most schools. CS teaches the fundamentals that are very helpful and can save a lot of pain in the future. SWE is a subset of CS it’s not that they are different things. They are quite similar. Also CS can lead to many things from Data science, to Cybersecurity to IT as well as SWE
This is one of the most reasonable comments here, the argument of a CS degree not equating SWE is dumb, because most reputable schools incorporate SWE courses in their CS major curriculum.
As someone who dropped out of college multiple times end never graduated, I totally agree. Unfortunately, tough times are here for newbies, even new grads.
A small portion of the concepts of computer science are crucial for software engineering and college or a degree are not necessary to acquire the skills/knowledge to be an effective software engineer*
Within the degree an important thing I did not see mentioned is picking your electives intelligently. If you want to focus on SWE, take more practical programming classes. Interested more in being a Sys admin? Take more classes focused on networking. I am going for IT, but I have been taking programming classes to ensure I have a grasp of the software I am running (and get better at debugging). I also recommend doing lab projects for your resume if internships are hard to come by in your area.
The word “engineer” originates from the Latin “ingeniarius,” which is derived from “ingenium,” meaning “ingenuity,” “cleverness,” or “natural ability.” This Latin term referred to a person who solves problems that elude normal individuals, showcasing exceptional creativity and resourcefulness. In english I think they associate the word 'engineer' with 'engine´, a person who works on engines, not the same meaning. In Spanish is Ingeniero, ingenio = ingenious.
Anyone smart / motivated enough to get a CS degree is smart / motivated enough to learn how to get into software development without the degree. (and spend that money on a down payment for a house and those 4 years getting practical, real world skill/experience)
@@jorsako843 true but you're also $150k+ and 4 years down. My first job I got after 6 months of self study. Making 80k. Now these kids who graduated can't even get a job with their expensive piece of paper so they don't even have the chance to get the experience to go with it so it's moot.
Those with a degree can do things that those without cannot dream of doing, all those without a degree have is a small head start (assuming those with a degree wasn’t actively producing software which is rarely the case)
@@docgraal485 Lol cope. A piece of paper has no bearing on ones ability to make software, only peoples perception of your abilities before proving it. The VAST majority of CS graduates write shit code that is why it's so hard for new grads to get jobs. CS is is way more than just coding so assuming most CS folk just sit around coding is wrong. 4 years and 150k worth of debt is far from a 'small' set back, especially if you don't graduate. In this market, the risk/reward doesn't add up.
The problem with people who look upto guys like Zuckerberg and other very successful people is that people look upto them and dream that they will be the next success story but do they have a Facebook level idea? Being able to have the idea and implement the idea successfully is why companies like Facebook, Amazon, google and others are what they are.
So basically Software Engineering like many other Cyber security etc... is under the umbrella of Computer Science. Computer science you are a jack of all trades master of none . But then when u specialize on one of the umbrella / branching sectors of Computer Science then u become a master on that one skil .
When you study CS at master or phd level you are highly specializing in things that SWE just don't do. Broadly, from my own experience. - CS is a maths heavy science degree, SWE is a practical engineering degree. - CS create tools , SWE use them. Eg. CS may write 3D engines like Unreal or Unity, SWE use those engines to build applications. - CS graduates may remain in academia and do pure research, SWE is aimed at work outside academia. Disclaimers: There is a significant crossover between the two, and you can find people of both degrees doing similar jobs. Degrees may vary a lot between countries and institutions. People may pick up skills from "the other side" on their own, in the same way that you may find skilled developers without a relevant degree.
@Tech2Rush thanks for the insight brotha . From your experience does it matter where your bachelor's is from ? WGU vs Colombia university or any other college that's not strictly online
@@John-gh2lz I couldn't really say, as I'm in Europe. I don't believe my choice of Uni ever mattered for me, but it may be different "over there". Public git contributions and people skills probably counts the most for fresh graduates.
@Tech2Rush ok good to know. Thanks brew . Funny thing we just arrived in london today . Will be here for a couple of days before heading back to the states.
@@Tech2Rush In USA, they have a culture, that a few universities have. To give an example, if one graduates from MIT. Here is a story from a friend of mine that went to MIT. So my friend he was from a poor background, was smart and did Engineering at MIT. When he graduated, he had difficulty finding a job. Now a couple of years later he meets someone that he knew in Engineering studied with him, and he was doing very well, this person, let us call him Jon. You see with Jon tells him the reason why he is doing well is because his father is the CEO of a large Engineering company. So my friend asks Jon if he can help. Jon says sure I will help you, you are my MIT brother. He calls his father, and his father says there are no positions available, but that is NO Problem, because he will just create a position for Jon's friend, because he is an MIT brother. Note the father graduated from MIT as well. SO in this way, from MIT you can come into contact with the Wealthy / Well To DO, and because they have this loyalty to the school they went to, they will try to help you out. SO in the USA this kind of "BROTHERHOOD" exists to a certain degree. And basically it seems that this mentality ONLY exists in the USA! Another way to look at this is Nepotism of some kind, I guess. SO, I just want to say, is easiest way to get job is Nepotism.
Bro this was a really good video but i think the title is just wrong U talked about soo many important things like the relevance of college and the harvard scam which i think more people would have actually found entertaining instrad of the CS vs SWE Anyway really detailed video.... +1 sub
So I did Data science, and the school couldn't do the last classes in time. Got a lawyer, now I have an AS in CS. But I did algorythms, C++, and even Unity. I probably did 10k lines of code. Yeah, I've done work type coding, but can't share, because it was outside of the school system.
I found this video be somewhat useful; it kind of just confirmed things I already knew. I like Elon Musk, but this guy comes off as an Elon Musk sycophant. His "first principles" concept is an over-hyped way of saying learning about something without making assumptions. ITS DEDUCTIVE LOGIC. ITS BEEN AROUND SINCE THE ANCIENT GREEKS. STOP TALKING ABOUT IT LIKE ITS A GENIUS CONCEPT HE INVENTED
In Switzerland there is this thing called Informatiker and it has two paths, platform development and application development. Application development focuses on web development, software development, databases, support and dev ops. In the apprenticeship they don't really go into depth, but things like arch linux, docker, git, cryptography and ssh are all things they learn in the first year out of four. Platformentwicklung focuses on the more physical part of computer science, they still learn the basics of code like oop, mobile-applications and machine learning. But they work with physical databases, computers and networks. The linux users in short. They both can later specialize and choose a field in some like economics, security or medicine.
Because software engineering is the title the job position not the degree, yes there's degrees in some colleges directly of software engineering but in most colleges there's usually two prominent degrees computer science and computer engineering which is a broader branch , me myself went for computer engineering and graduated last year. I've done two internships and as I'm applying to land a either a junior software engineer or early career entry level software engineer I realize they constantly mention computer science or related fields with the related fields being computer engineering , electrical engineering as they have a lot of overlap too and very few mention software engineering as a degree.
Bro I'm going to start EEE . But my heart cries for CS(honestly for salary, lucrative job, life). But there's no way to change it. After Batchelor-eee should I switch to MS-CS ? Won't it be so hard as I'll be pursuing MS-CS without 4 yrs basics? Should I self-study DSA, DBMS,C, C++,JAVA,.. along with eee courses? Eee itself is so rigorous.
@@RLleeo I think that if you can take electives make sure to pick the ones that have programming, And if you can brush up on your coding skills before starting your masters you should be fine . Also some schools have the accelerated bachelors-masters program where you can finish both in 5 years
My web developer friend thinks i'm talking shit when I talk about the flaws in web technologies. He looks at javascript and PHP, while I look at the source of the browsers and interpreters as a C/C++. That same friend has never written a bootloader for hardware or programmed a custom OS for specialized hardware. I wish schools would teach students assembly and C before teaching javascript or python.
Can we shake hands! I LOATHE web dev and all it's layers of technology these days. I wrote the first online bookstore here in the Netherlands back in 1997/1998 and I wrote it with cgi-bin using Perl and C. And I knew that the future would be running apps in browsers and that idea send shivers down my spine because I hated every single moment of that project. And indeed learn to write a basic OS on a tiny machine that is true useful deep knowledge.
He's right, it's not. I have a computer science degree and now I'm getting my Software Engineering PhD after 20 years of doing what Aman does. Thanks for the video Aman.
The whole Elon Musk saying don't get a degree thing is so overblown. When he started doing layoffs, the leaked memos literally said that they should prioritize letting go of people WITHOUT degrees regardless of experience. And literally a few days ago, another memo leaked from Tesla or X (don't remember) where it told recruiters to not hire anyone who wasn't from Ivies, stanford, gt, cmu, MIT or the Indian IITs.
@@jayrollo1352 you emphatically used “literally said this” multiple times. I did my damndest to find any reference to corroborate what you’re saying and have turned up nothing. Please actually direct us to where to find these memos in question. Please correct me if I’m wrong, I genuinely want you to if you’re correct. But it seems to me like you are full of crap. There is nothing I can find that even remotely rings true to what you said in this comment. Show your receipts or quit lying.
Great video. The thing is, the CS world is as broad as philosophy. A CS-educated fellow is better equipped for the world than just a SE because he can decide to become a SE or a zillion of other things by refocusing and re-detailing. Now even within the SE subcategory, in a big project, you can't really name just one fellow software engineer-there are those who interface between the problem and the solution proposed (it's huge), and those who specialize in flowcharting and pseudo-coding, and those who do the actual coding, and then there are those who test to confirm if the solution provided actually solves the problem quite correctly-the software testers. I did CS in college :)
I Mexico there’s a whole degree called Computer Engineering, which is more aligned with SWE. While Computer Science still exists, is way more focused on science research (as it should be).
Yeah just a guy with 4 engineering-heavy companies that are at the bleeding edge of their respective industries No biggy, we should take you seriously but not him
thing is, I didnt want that high paying of a job in the first place getting into computer science. I wanted to provide solutions to some softwares I really enjoy inside of music, and mainly just work remotely. I didn't want to be the guy at a cubicle. I've been experimental/disciplined most of my life. it's autism in a way. I do better in abstract connections, and not because of making a 9-5 quota.
Very interesting video. As a statistician born i'm still trying to understand which is the difference between statistics and data science. I see the intersection but i don't know where the statisticians finish his job and the same about the data scientist
Computer Science is a generalist degree. You will touch on many aspects of computation from the mathematics, hardware, networking, programming, software engineering and more. It is also still a very valid method of entry into a software engineering role, as many employers ask for it specifically or something equivalent to it. A Software Engineering degree is a specialist degree within the domain of computer science, and usually falls under the "equivalent" umbrella, so it is equally valid as CS. The choice is yours.
So I have a question. What if you have the skills for programming but didn’t finish college, can you still get internships if you build a portfolio and examples of your own work? I’m currently doing this right now building my portfolio and planning search for an internship in the spring.
Absolutely. What will matter the most at the end of the day is your skillset. Degrees arent backwards by any means, they have a purpose. But pretty much everything you need to know after graduation can be self-taught
Bs. Statistics is absolutely enough for data science lol. Problem with data science degrees especially created in last like 10 years or less is that there was no uniform standard of accreditation body to standardize the curriculum. Statistics, however, is standard and is definitely enough as you find people in the industry with that degree as it's similar to CS in that statistics can lead you to many different areas
Only 20% of your video is about SWE vs CS. Your final 3 points on how CS can transition to SWE could be summarized into a single bullet point, which is gaining real-life experience.
Well good thing my school taught me that before signing up for uni. I enrolled into university for the diploma. It's just saying "hey look I can go and work and do stuff despite the environment". Thing is that I am doing university part-time because it allows me to work full-time and my current job is sorta related to software engineering. I am writing and maintaining code and doing WordPress sites (not my proudest achievement)
Yes, I agree, Computer Science programs, are much closer to this new name " Computer Math ". In computer science, they tell you that they want you to solve problems by using some Programming Language. BUT the problem is this, they expect you to know that computer programming language before you even start the course. SO when a specific course in Computer Science degree says that " course will use Java " , they usually do not spend time teaching you the language, they expect you to know it, or figure it out on your own while you do the course. SO to summarize, computer science programs will NOT teach you a programming language, you have to learn it on your own, and if you cannot do it, you will fail the course. SO you do not go into Computer Science in University with the expectation that they will teach you the language or give you enough time to learn the language, so it is just corruption on the part of the University. Basically only Community Colleges create courses meant for you to learn the Language, and sometime they even fail to deliver on this. But just saying Computer Science does NOT equal to learning of Computer Languages. And so this is the real problem. Now this video talks about that Software Engineering is the better practical way to learn languages, and I saw that even this is NOT TRUE. In software eng they also spend a lot of time on like strange theoretical courses that connect to the business management field of study, and they still don't do enough to really prepare students on practical computer programming. He also mentions the 1980's etc, back in the past, employers in large corporations knew that school was school, and industry was different, so they basically gave computer science graduates to learn what they needed in the workplace, so they basically got paid in the first year on the job to just learn. Note, by early 2000's, industry no longer wanted to train people on the job, and basically says "You better know these things"! SO corporations have become cheap, don't want to spend money to help people transition from school to industry!!! SO now you are on your own to learn the things that Industry wants you to have.
@@nickmando2329 They say that, but they most times actually dont reall, require it. If you got a good portfolio, you really dont need the degree for the job.
@@JonBerisha-ti1vl Because they aim to get the best possible. But at the end of the day, they need someone who can get the job done and if you have experience in the required field, the degree itself isnt really that important. The degree is like an insurance for them, especially if you are a junior dev.
SWEs is a little different. SWE is the application of CS concepts and theory. However, SWE has a lot more communication between stakeholders and prospective end users. U need that personal touch and empathy to understand user requirements.
While you are technically correct, historically that is inaccurate. Prior to the mid to late 90s this was not the case, as having a computer science degree prepared you for a wide range of fields as a "software engineer/programmer/architect/systems engineer' as a job title, because at that time computing was much different than it is today. You didn't have the cloud, you didn't have java and you didn't have a dominance of the x86 architecture or linux. Not to mention in the 80s and 90s you didn't have anywhere near the number of computers scientists out in the workforce as today, so one or a few people had to do a lot. So at that time, a computer science degree taught you the intimate connection between hardware and software so you could design, develop, test and maintain software on a wide variety of dominant platforms from various flavors of unix, to main frames and lowly (at that time) PCs. It was only later that schools began to offer more specialized degrees in software QA, management and information science, software engineering, cybersecurity and so forth, which is what you are talking about. Basically those things are preparing you for specific jobs and roles vs CS which historically provided you the training to do a range of roles, some of which were not directly writing software at all. An old school computer science major should technically have been able to write anything from a system library, to graphics programs, an email client, a database system or device drivers. Web applications and services were not a thing back then.
Computing was not any different, and nothing *really* new appeared since mid-80s. Cloud? We had mainframes and superminis. Java? We had p-code, we had AIX and all that stuff. Linux? That funny little parody on Unix? We had a real thing. And at that time CS was a more properly mathematical, more purely theoretical discipline, not polluted with people who wrongly assumed they'll learn "to code" there and will earn money as code monkeys in a bank or whatever.
@@vitalyl1327 Coding with Java is very different than coding with C where you literally have access to the bare metal instructions specific to individual chips. And in the 80s getting performance in specific types of applications meant using specific chips with custom instruction sets designed to accelerate those tasks. An example is Silicon Graphics. All of that necessity of teaching hardware and low level systems architecture went out the window when Java came along and commodity x86 hardware. And no, managing servers back then was not like "the cloud" where provisioning is automated, but yes obviously you had data centers. Not to mention system engineering didn't mean picking the appropriate javascript framework to use.
@@willd1mindmind639 IBM TIMI was not much different from JVM (and likely inspired it, along with P-codes). This (and early Java) were not the use cases for top performance anyway, portability mattered far more.
@@vitalyl1327 The point was most programming didn't involve HTTP, Java Script or Html in the 80s and 90s. Java was the main reason for this change. The fact that you no longer had to worry about the complexity issues of C/C++ programming or how to build front end clients was a big change. And along with that your code was compiled for each specific piece of hardware and often involved specific libraries for that hardware with custom functionality. Keeping in mind that the portability of java as a language wasn't the biggest factor, but the fact Java contained built in support for HTTP processing. And that allowed for portability based on javascript and html on the front end as a major differentiating factor. So you no longer had to write custom socket programming in C/C++ to communicate over the network. Therefore, java lowered the bar to entry for programming and changed how programming and CS was taught, giving rise to the topic of this video being software engineering degrees, which didn't exist in the 80s and 90s.
@@willd1mindmind639 Even Cobol was not really platform-specific and was mostly portable. C/C++ was a very niche thing anyway, computing landscape was far more complex and diverse outside of that niche. And I really wish HTML/CSS/Javascript never happened. We had a perfect stack before HTML became a thing - Tcl/Tk. Web stack did not solve any problems - it just introduced a ton of new ones. And even in the 80s there was a clear separation between CS and SE. CS was always a purely mathematical, theoretical discipline. It was about computers as much as astronomy is about telescopes. Nothing really changed since then. And nothing really changed in SE when it's taught properly.
I don't think Harvard sells just the fact that you were chosen, it also sells a certification that you are able to pass their exams. It can be three to five years with intense workload. That being said I don't like the American system where universities are run like a business and forces people to get into debt.
In the UK you have BSc (Batchelor of Science) Computer Science, BEng/MEng (Batchelor/Master of Engineering) Software Engineering check out Birmingham University/Imperial College
so basically, CSE is like doing a basic level of study which then splits into multiple applications which are to be learnt separately. okay ! got that. I am starting with a BS in CSE with AI/ML. In India they offer CSE + some specialization which you can choose as per your interest. they also offer CSE & DS/ AI/ML/ IOT/ CYBERSECURITY/ BIOINFORMATICS/ BLOCKCHAIN WEB3. which one do you suggest as per the current market and prediction for next 3 years.
in india, all are shit. But u need atleast a degree to land a SWE job. Go For the degree which requires u spending the least time on it. TL;DR Go for the least difficult course and easy to get GPA course based on ur college. Enquire with seniors . After getting in college grind leetcode and Codeforces and then pray god to land u a SWE offer
@@lazyemperor5182 thanks for trying to help me I will follow the easy course strategy you talked about. but that last part, thats average sheep mentality in india. do dsa do leetcode there are so many other things than this job-only mentality. sadly all indians are chasing non existent job markets which only takes few highly qualified people. considering you are not that senior that me, I would want to tell you that people who get hired using only leetcode grind and system design interview bootcamps also get fired within a year or two....
I did not knew this when I was in my college hence I do pretty well with my subjects and didnt do anything for job related stuff, as bad luck my college didnt emphasised on this part. I feel pretty wasted sometimes but I am buidling myself slowly.
Getting into a good college is definitely not enough to get a good job, but the ONE reason someone would want to get into a good college is because of the network they can create, like if someone get's into a not so great college, the one thing that they will suffer the most in is crating a good network, so let's say someone gets into a bad college, how do you suggest they create a good network considering no one at college is really network material.
Ultimately, what you can achieve is determined by your attitude, dedication, and interests. While degrees can be valuable, they often consume time that could be better spent pursuing your passions. The hiring process is flawed - regardless of your educational background.
Computer Science(The Creator/ Build) Invents, while Software Engineering(Power User) uses CS Creation. JavaScript was invented by Brendan Eich in 1995. Brendan Eich received a bachelor's degree in mathematics and computer science at Santa Clara University and his master's degree in 1985 from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. 1995- JavaScript, a just-in-time, object-oriented programming language, is introduced. JavaScript allows for interactive web pages and is used by a majority of web sites. 1996 - Rochester Institute of Technology presents the first bachelor's degree program in software engineering. Learn Computer Science or Mathematics to become the next Elon Musk.
Mechanics don't call themselves engineers. That title is a corporate upsale. Stop using the term. If you use someone else's tech, it's not yours. You didn't engineer jack. You put legos together. Very few people are engineers. For almost 30 years, I still hate the term. Installing a light socket or crimping ethernet, not engineer. Why would programmers/devs call themselves engineers? Because companies had to sell the job or the cert.
HELLOOO WHAT ABOUT College of Computer Studies and Multimedia Arts - Bachelor of Science in Computer Science with specialization in Software Engineering ??
Why cant universities prepare you for data structure and algorithms better instead of you having to learn and grind on your own. One class doesnt count.
Please make a video about the Mullaperiyar Dam in Kerala. 30 lakh lives are at risk, and the government is not taking appropriate action. We urgently need attention on this issue. This is a serious issue. This is a heartfelt request from us, the people of Kerala. #decommissionmullaperiyardam
Hackathons are terrible. Being able to write disposable code fast using superficial understanding of tools is a totally different skill than being able to plan, understand the trade offs of different ways of doing something and then implementing it to be maintainable for several years.
When more people go to college, the value of BSc or a MSc devaluates. Simple economics that also applies to the knowledge market. So you'll be better of learning an applied trade. And I argue that EE is probably a better major as it also has CS concepts but you also learn about actually building hardware and it's a very practical degree because you can't learn electrical engineering without actually building things in the real world and that is a skill that has gotten lost.
@@RLleeo I am from EE (and am working 31 years in every area of IT). I have not said anywhere that EE pays more than CS. I said an EE degree is more valuable than CS because when you do micro controllers/embedded systems you also get CS, and you can work in any field in ICT, in Mechatronics, in hardare development, in embedded systems/
@@CallousCoderI'm going to start EE . But my heart cries for CS(honestly for salary, lucrative job, life). But there's no way to change it. After Batchelor-eee should I switch to MS-CS ? Won't it be so hard as I'll be pursuing MS-CS without 4 yrs basics? Should I self-study DSA, DBMS,C, C++,JAVA,.. along with ee courses? ee itself is so rigorous.
@@RLleeo I can't tell you what to do but I can tell you that when you specialise in embedded systems that you know as much, if not more than most CS people and you can definitely land an IT job. And learning programming already is a definite great investment. My situation of doing EE was actually out of necessity to stay out of the military draft. I didn't want to do anything STEM. I am a musician or film maker. And I got in to the Amsterdam film academy but I'd rather study at the Royal Conservatory and the let me audition and I didn't get in. By then my spot at the Film Academy was also given. So my dad suggested to do EE (there was no trade school level CS it was all boring business IT) because I loved electronics (made a lot of guitar pedals) and I hacked my C64 to do bank switching so I knew my way around electronics. And I would do it 1 semester and I could then enter the Film Academy because my admittance film was so good (they said). But for some reason EE clicked with me and I spend the whole 4 years graduating top of my class. But I was good because I already knew assembly programming and I knew how the computers worked (the 8 but micros) so I had that knowledge and thus learning assembly, C and operating systems design (bare metal programming) was a breeze for me. And when I graduated, it was 1994 a full on crisis. And I just started as an Field Service Engineer for a software house in medical systems. And I told them I wanted to program and I did extend some of their test sets and build some proxies for expensive blood analysis machines. Then I left after 14 months because I didn't want to do FSE anymore and I liked Networks and Novell netware so I became a sysadmin and in 1997 I build for them the first online bookstore in NL. So that was a coding and infra accolade, i left and my old employer hired me has a software engineer for a new program they'd bought. Ever since then I always worked in a hybrid of system design/admin (infra) and systems software development and Identity and Access systems. So I didn't officially have a CS degree but I had CS in my EE classes and already 8 years of programming experience (started when I was 10 in Basic and did assembly when I was 13) so I build upon my own knowledge. And you can too. Most people in IT are THE WORST DEVELOPERS you will find! So any excellence and especially problem solving ability and giving business value, you'll be in.
@@CallousCoderwoohh man, u r too much intelligent & hard working no doubt . But I really wonder how u self-studied, as there were no huge online resources back in 90s!!! Why IT guys r bad at development? As they r hired with CS background & extreme coding interviews , shouldn't they be better?
I need to find a video that has actual useful information. Just another video with a very specific target that doesnt include me. Graduated with an associate in "Secure Software Development", managed to land a job 2 years after getting degree - only to be terminated from work performance. So much drmand even for junior level programming and so much to learn that isnt taught in a 2 year program. Now i gotta sift through tons and tons of job postings which most of them are wanting senior level experience. Thinkin i have to go back to hard manufacturing labor job now since i seem to be untouchable at this point.
hey guys, I'm still 16 but should I study computer science through a scholarship and then try to study software engineering in another scholarship? or masters in computer science THEN software engineering?
Get Million-Dollar Weekend and tons of incredible software deals like TidyCal and SendFox on AppSumo: appsumo.8odi.net/nLKWa9
when you will launch your free software engineering course
brother
@@badhon2017after takes a bath which is less likely
@AmanManazir sir please sir I want you to guide me on my new course am about to start this new enroll I wanted to study software engineering for my degree but the course they offering in the university is Bachelor of Computer Application so is it bad to study start?
@@NanakwameboatinOtuo-serebournot really , just have passion for it, am also doing the same program.
Computer Science deals with software a lot.
What’s good about CS is because you can become anything . IT , cloud , software , data science , consulting ,
I am getting a degree only for the high ranking cybersec jobs as I am 12 years into the industey. Can't care any less about programming, though. But I need the piece of paper.
@@dieglhix it’s good to understand programming however , best believe the most valuable person is the members of the team who can communicate with other members. All programmers should know some network , security , etc , just as all high level IT professionals should know some code too .
@@dieglhix and if you ever plan to work in cloud , coding is a must , as is command line . But you’ll get plenty of exposure to that
@@ci6516 I know a lot of command line and powershell, some basic programming but I won't go deep diving because it's not of personal interest and AI tools can do a lot of the work... I study a lot of other IT things not related to programming which are also very needed in the industry
Not hardware. Hardware can do SD but hardly the other way around.
I’d say the only pros of top universities are the connections you can make
exactly
It's also considered an accolade. Many companies, such as Jane Street, love to hire and consider students from Ivy League colleges compared to other colleges.
bro if you want a network, just buy a network
The problem with video like this, is that prolly almost nobody will see it before going into college, yt algorithm works in such a way that it will recommend it to people who either already are in college or finished it already.
Almost everybody learns this the hard way, especially if you listen to old people, who have NO IDEA how this industry works
Actually I’m a high school student who hasn’t gone to college yet and I’m here. But yeah I’m probably an exception in this case.
@@kaimemes Hey good for you, that means you're trying to get more informed on the matter.
Me too still remaining with 2 years of high school@@kaimemes
@@kaimemesI am also high school student. I will become software engineer or developer
@@Harsh_Kharya That's really cool! What specific technologies/fields are you interested in rn?
In the 90s my job description was Electronics Technician, but I was mostly coding. Using the University library, I was trying to learn software engineering, but all the books titled Software Engineering were about managing teams. These books were useless for a 1 person team.
Same here I studied EE and I knew more about actually coding operating systems and embedded systems that a MSc that we had in the same company.
Simply because we had to build a single board computer and make it control certain things like heavy motors and lights etc. And then we had to build a basic OS to actually run two applications "concurrently".
Web programming is neither Computer Science nor Software Engineering.
coder wannabe
Then what is web programming??
@@chiragmali274 interface designer that use text
@rileyowen7245 then, there's a bug in your learning
So exactly what would it be called because I use to think the same way and tried different types of programming and it all felt the same just a different language
I'm a junior in college, and I have a 4.0 in computer science. My minor is software engineering and I still have to work to learn programming. I agree and relate to this video! I graduate next year and I know how to code but It's still doesn't feel like I know enough. I have been told to start projects and I have started and completed some. I still feel like there is so much more to know and I still don't know many programming concepts or fundamentals! I still have to rely on other resources! College just doesn't teach the necessary skills required to be effective in the tech industry. I have learned if I want it I must learn lots of information and develop skills on my own! It's challenging, You have to love a challenge! I love the challenges of programming, and there are so many!!! LOL there's nothing more rewarding to me than to figure something out no matter how frustrating it is or how long it takes!
i about to study CS and when i went to the study program i found out that there is a whole subject called softwear enginering in one of the semesters so i dont know if that's only my collage. so did you study SWE in your collage?
In a proper college or university. throughout the course of your degree, you will get some form of software engineering major/module. In my University it's called Informatics, where we learn basic concepts of SWE. You can then choose to further your studies on what you want to specialise on as a postgraduate. Or just create a good enough portfolio and learn on the Job. Do not let videos like these discourage you. Not everything works for everyone, and also consider that you might not be at the same region or country as him where the industry is a bit different.
@@simphiwengcobo4850 Yes thinks work differently for different people and different situations
Right here with you bro, always learning and self learning more now even as a Senior cs major, took all my hardest classes junior year so now I have a whole year ish to make my own projects and really beef up my resume with some experience, but still, just doesn’t feel like I know enough to fit in the tech industry yet, but yessir that challenge and the feeling of accomplishment is what we chase, here’s to good luck for all of us aspiring computer science majors or whatever it may be, just people trying to get their foot in the door and succeed in this tough tech field
well said. it's like saying that electrical engineering design is soldering circuit boards or fixing equipment.
Boom.
"Computer Science is as much about Computers as Astronomy is about Telescopes" - Edsgar Dijkstra.
If everyone’s a superhero no one’s a superhero
🤨
@@benzemamumba if everyone is a superhero, there is no one to save, so the superheroes don't have anyone to save. So, the super heroes are just individuals with superpowers. Thus, no one is a superhero.
@@和Ash_1810和 they just super
@@aaabatteries5728 "when everybody becomes a super, nobody will be" Syndrome from the incredibles
@@gerardo.arroyo.s real, but i was more leaning into everyone in The Boys becoming supes
My favorite part of CS, is how anything theorized can be created perfectly in code. Now, it may not always be the best use of a given technology, but that closeness between theory and practice is not there in other fields of engineering.
Not everything. You can reason about the existence of a 7-state busy beaver, but good luck discovering it in reality.
Computer Science is the theory, Software Engineering is the practical application of that theory to real-life tasks.
EDIT: It appears as though Computer Science actually covers both the theory and practical application of technology. Software Engineering appears to be a sub-section of CS that solely covers the practical application side of things when designing and implementing software systems.
See the Wikipedia pages for both Computer Science and Software Engineering for further information.
This guy in the video went sooo much off topic for no reason sucha idiot
Not entirely true
Bro just said random shit that sounds nice and people liked his comment
Nope. CS involves managing infrastructure not much to do with programming
Reading up on it more, it appears as though Computer Science actually covers both the theory and practical application of technology. Software Engineering appears to be a sub-section of CS that solely covers the practical application side of things when designing and implementing software systems. My bad! I will update my original comment to reflect that.
See the Wikipedia pages for both Computer Science and Software Engineering for further content.
A bit of clickbait and a kinda a bad take. You essentially need a CS degree and there is no SWE degree at most schools. CS teaches the fundamentals that are very helpful and can save a lot of pain in the future. SWE is a subset of CS it’s not that they are different things. They are quite similar. Also CS can lead to many things from Data science, to Cybersecurity to IT as well as SWE
This is one of the most reasonable comments here, the argument of a CS degree not equating SWE is dumb, because most reputable schools incorporate SWE courses in their CS major curriculum.
As someone who dropped out of college multiple times end never graduated, I totally agree. Unfortunately, tough times are here for newbies, even new grads.
I actually never realized this till i saw some of my classmates didnt get a job till like 9-10 months after graduation.
Did you finally get a degree
The concepts of computer science are crucial for software engineering
A small portion of the concepts of computer science are crucial for software engineering and college or a degree are not necessary to acquire the skills/knowledge to be an effective software engineer*
not at all, there are so many elective classes for CS that have nothing to do with Software engineering
Yes and no.
Computer Science is a Mathematics degree...not a Software/Programming Degree. Do Information Technology or Software Engineering instead.
OMG I completely forgot about him 😮
Within the degree an important thing I did not see mentioned is picking your electives intelligently. If you want to focus on SWE, take more practical programming classes. Interested more in being a Sys admin? Take more classes focused on networking. I am going for IT, but I have been taking programming classes to ensure I have a grasp of the software I am running (and get better at debugging). I also recommend doing lab projects for your resume if internships are hard to come by in your area.
The word “engineer” originates from the Latin “ingeniarius,” which is derived from “ingenium,” meaning “ingenuity,” “cleverness,” or “natural ability.” This Latin term referred to a person who solves problems that elude normal individuals, showcasing exceptional creativity and resourcefulness.
In english I think they associate the word 'engineer' with 'engine´, a person who works on engines, not the same meaning. In Spanish is Ingeniero, ingenio = ingenious.
I chose computer science because Georgia State offered that and Computer Information Systems as the only tech majors
There is only one university that offers software engineering as an undergraduate program around here. Believe me, that’s where I planned to go.
Anyone smart / motivated enough to get a CS degree is smart / motivated enough to learn how to get into software development without the degree. (and spend that money on a down payment for a house and those 4 years getting practical, real world skill/experience)
wayy better fr💯
You’re more likely to get hired with the degree and the skills
@@jorsako843 true but you're also $150k+ and 4 years down. My first job I got after 6 months of self study. Making 80k. Now these kids who graduated can't even get a job with their expensive piece of paper so they don't even have the chance to get the experience to go with it so it's moot.
Those with a degree can do things that those without cannot dream of doing, all those without a degree have is a small head start (assuming those with a degree wasn’t actively producing software which is rarely the case)
@@docgraal485 Lol cope. A piece of paper has no bearing on ones ability to make software, only peoples perception of your abilities before proving it. The VAST majority of CS graduates write shit code that is why it's so hard for new grads to get jobs. CS is is way more than just coding so assuming most CS folk just sit around coding is wrong. 4 years and 150k worth of debt is far from a 'small' set back, especially if you don't graduate. In this market, the risk/reward doesn't add up.
Computer Science undergrad, Software Engineering masters. I wholeheartedly agree with this video.
The problem with people who look upto guys like Zuckerberg and other very successful people is that people look upto them and dream that they will be the next success story but do they have a Facebook level idea?
Being able to have the idea and implement the idea successfully is why companies like Facebook, Amazon, google and others are what they are.
My CS major had software engineering, Web development, machine learning, and statistics.
Then consider yourself very fortunate
Where did you school?!
Thank you. Hopefully, there is someone like you compare what do you as a ME student and what you do as an engineer working in a company.
Very well done Aman!!
So basically Software Engineering like many other Cyber security etc... is under the umbrella of Computer Science. Computer science you are a jack of all trades master of none . But then when u specialize on one of the umbrella / branching sectors of Computer Science then u become a master on that one skil .
When you study CS at master or phd level you are highly specializing in things that SWE just don't do.
Broadly, from my own experience.
- CS is a maths heavy science degree, SWE is a practical engineering degree.
- CS create tools , SWE use them. Eg. CS may write 3D engines like Unreal or Unity, SWE use those engines to build applications.
- CS graduates may remain in academia and do pure research, SWE is aimed at work outside academia.
Disclaimers: There is a significant crossover between the two, and you can find people of both degrees doing similar jobs. Degrees may vary a lot between countries and institutions. People may pick up skills from "the other side" on their own, in the same way that you may find skilled developers without a relevant degree.
@Tech2Rush thanks for the insight brotha . From your experience does it matter where your bachelor's is from ? WGU vs Colombia university or any other college that's not strictly online
@@John-gh2lz I couldn't really say, as I'm in Europe. I don't believe my choice of Uni ever mattered for me, but it may be different "over there".
Public git contributions and people skills probably counts the most for fresh graduates.
@Tech2Rush ok good to know. Thanks brew . Funny thing we just arrived in london today . Will be here for a couple of days before heading back to the states.
@@Tech2Rush In USA, they have a culture, that a few universities have. To give an example, if one graduates from MIT. Here is a story from a friend of mine that went to MIT. So my friend he was from a poor background, was smart and did Engineering at MIT. When he graduated, he had difficulty finding a job. Now a couple of years later he meets someone that he knew in Engineering studied with him, and he was doing very well, this person, let us call him Jon. You see with Jon tells him the reason why he is doing well is because his father is the CEO of a large Engineering company. So my friend asks Jon if he can help. Jon says sure I will help you, you are my MIT brother. He calls his father, and his father says there are no positions available, but that is NO Problem, because he will just create a position for Jon's friend, because he is an MIT brother. Note the father graduated from MIT as well. SO in this way, from MIT you can come into contact with the Wealthy / Well To DO, and because they have this loyalty to the school they went to, they will try to help you out. SO in the USA this kind of "BROTHERHOOD" exists to a certain degree. And basically it seems that this mentality ONLY exists in the USA! Another way to look at this is Nepotism of some kind, I guess. SO, I just want to say, is easiest way to get job is Nepotism.
Bro ur editing is dope! What tools do u use?
Bro this was a really good video but i think the title is just wrong
U talked about soo many important things like the relevance of college and the harvard scam which i think more people would have actually found entertaining instrad of the CS vs SWE
Anyway really detailed video.... +1 sub
except im majoring in software engineering. Computer science is the entire field which includes, webdev, gamedev, mobiledev, AI, data, cyber, etc etc.
So I did Data science, and the school couldn't do the last classes in time. Got a lawyer, now I have an AS in CS. But I did algorythms, C++, and even Unity. I probably did 10k lines of code. Yeah, I've done work type coding, but can't share, because it was outside of the school system.
First 8 minutes were a waste of time.
😂
from 0 - 11:10 actually is the waste of time 😢
@@sotravelghllc0:00 to 14:54 is a waste of time
that's why i always read the comments first
I found this video be somewhat useful; it kind of just confirmed things I already knew.
I like Elon Musk, but this guy comes off as an Elon Musk sycophant. His "first principles" concept is an over-hyped way of saying learning about something without making assumptions. ITS DEDUCTIVE LOGIC. ITS BEEN AROUND SINCE THE ANCIENT GREEKS. STOP TALKING ABOUT IT LIKE ITS A GENIUS CONCEPT HE INVENTED
I think you said a major understatement, getting a return offer from internship is much more doable than cold applying to jobs after grad
In Switzerland there is this thing called Informatiker and it has two paths, platform development and application development.
Application development focuses on web development, software development, databases, support and dev ops.
In the apprenticeship they don't really go into depth, but things like arch linux, docker, git, cryptography and ssh are all things they learn in the first year out of four.
Platformentwicklung focuses on the more physical part of computer science, they still learn the basics of code like oop, mobile-applications and machine learning. But they work with physical databases, computers and networks. The linux users in short.
They both can later specialize and choose a field in some like economics, security or medicine.
I’m a computer scientist I enjoy looking at IT people and Software people.
That sounds like you are some predator. 🤨
Because software engineering is the title the job position not the degree, yes there's degrees in some colleges directly of software engineering but in most colleges there's usually two prominent degrees computer science and computer engineering which is a broader branch , me myself went for computer engineering and graduated last year. I've done two internships and as I'm applying to land a either a junior software engineer or early career entry level software engineer I realize they constantly mention computer science or related fields with the related fields being computer engineering , electrical engineering as they have a lot of overlap too and very few mention software engineering as a degree.
Bro I'm going to start EEE . But my heart cries for CS(honestly for salary, lucrative job, life). But there's no way to change it. After Batchelor-eee should I switch to MS-CS ? Won't it be so hard as I'll be pursuing MS-CS without 4 yrs basics?
Should I self-study DSA, DBMS,C, C++,JAVA,.. along with eee courses?
Eee itself is so rigorous.
@@RLleeo I think that if you can take electives make sure to pick the ones that have programming, And if you can brush up on your coding skills before starting your masters you should be fine . Also some schools have the accelerated bachelors-masters program where you can finish both in 5 years
My web developer friend thinks i'm talking shit when I talk about the flaws in web technologies. He looks at javascript and PHP, while I look at the source of the browsers and interpreters as a C/C++. That same friend has never written a bootloader for hardware or programmed a custom OS for specialized hardware. I wish schools would teach students assembly and C before teaching javascript or python.
My school actually teaches C++ first before the progression to javascript and python
Can we shake hands! I LOATHE web dev and all it's layers of technology these days. I wrote the first online bookstore here in the Netherlands back in 1997/1998 and I wrote it with cgi-bin using Perl and C. And I knew that the future would be running apps in browsers and that idea send shivers down my spine because I hated every single moment of that project.
And indeed learn to write a basic OS on a tiny machine that is true useful deep knowledge.
You should talk more about psychological stuff. The convergence of psych and comp sci is so interesting.
0:05 ahhhh the good ol' print("Hello World")
He's right, it's not. I have a computer science degree and now I'm getting my Software Engineering PhD after 20 years of doing what Aman does. Thanks for the video Aman.
Computer science is more interesting anyway
The whole Elon Musk saying don't get a degree thing is so overblown. When he started doing layoffs, the leaked memos literally said that they should prioritize letting go of people WITHOUT degrees regardless of experience. And literally a few days ago, another memo leaked from Tesla or X (don't remember) where it told recruiters to not hire anyone who wasn't from Ivies, stanford, gt, cmu, MIT or the Indian IITs.
@@jayrollo1352 you emphatically used “literally said this” multiple times. I did my damndest to find any reference to corroborate what you’re saying and have turned up nothing. Please actually direct us to where to find these memos in question.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, I genuinely want you to if you’re correct. But it seems to me like you are full of crap. There is nothing I can find that even remotely rings true to what you said in this comment.
Show your receipts or quit lying.
@@randomutubr222 well said
Great video. The thing is, the CS world is as broad as philosophy. A CS-educated fellow is better equipped for the world than just a SE because he can decide to become a SE or a zillion of other things by refocusing and re-detailing. Now even within the SE subcategory, in a big project, you can't really name just one fellow software engineer-there are those who interface between the problem and the solution proposed (it's huge), and those who specialize in flowcharting and pseudo-coding, and those who do the actual coding, and then there are those who test to confirm if the solution provided actually solves the problem quite correctly-the software testers. I did CS in college :)
5:22 he says, "this is the environment our parents grew up in." And I heard gun fire.
AmanM❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Thank you and deeply grateful for the Light....
In my experience the problem is they won't let you apply for internships unless you're already working on that unless six figure degree
I Mexico there’s a whole degree called Computer Engineering, which is more aligned with SWE. While Computer Science still exists, is way more focused on science research (as it should be).
rule no.1 of living on earth - don't take Elon musk seriously
Yeah just a guy with 4 engineering-heavy companies that are at the bleeding edge of their respective industries
No biggy, we should take you seriously but not him
How TF does Elon Musk factor into any of this?! 🤨
Exactly 💯 @@benzemamumba
@@CHURCHISAWESUMbodies him! Also, are you Catholic? 👀
That's so funny... and we should take you seriously right? 😂
Outstanding content.
thing is, I didnt want that high paying of a job in the first place getting into computer science. I wanted to provide solutions to some softwares I really enjoy inside of music, and mainly just work remotely. I didn't want to be the guy at a cubicle. I've been experimental/disciplined most of my life. it's autism in a way. I do better in abstract connections, and not because of making a 9-5 quota.
Very interesting video. As a statistician born i'm still trying to understand which is the difference between statistics and data science. I see the intersection but i don't know where the statisticians finish his job and the same about the data scientist
Computer Science is a generalist degree. You will touch on many aspects of computation from the mathematics, hardware, networking, programming, software engineering and more. It is also still a very valid method of entry into a software engineering role, as many employers ask for it specifically or something equivalent to it. A Software Engineering degree is a specialist degree within the domain of computer science, and usually falls under the "equivalent" umbrella, so it is equally valid as CS. The choice is yours.
I'm Debating on whether I should Choose Computer Science or Cyber security I'm mostly interested in Cyber security
Did you figure out which one?
@@TheFakeKevKev I have gone for Cyber security
So I have a question. What if you have the skills for programming but didn’t finish college, can you still get internships if you build a portfolio and examples of your own work? I’m currently doing this right now building my portfolio and planning search for an internship in the spring.
Absolutely. What will matter the most at the end of the day is your skillset. Degrees arent backwards by any means, they have a purpose. But pretty much everything you need to know after graduation can be self-taught
no because everyone else has a degrrr
Why would they pick Mr Portfolio like u 😂
Bs. Statistics is absolutely enough for data science lol. Problem with data science degrees especially created in last like 10 years or less is that there was no uniform standard of accreditation body to standardize the curriculum. Statistics, however, is standard and is definitely enough as you find people in the industry with that degree as it's similar to CS in that statistics can lead you to many different areas
Only 20% of your video is about SWE vs CS. Your final 3 points on how CS can transition to SWE could be summarized into a single bullet point, which is gaining real-life experience.
school teaches you. The job puts those concepts and thinkings skills you develop to work
I’m kinda surprised you didn’t mention personal projects in the ‘how to differentiate yourself’ section. Is there any particular reason why?
Because he doesn’t actually care about this topic, he just wants views so probably gorgot
“You learn by doing and applying.”
Well good thing my school taught me that before signing up for uni. I enrolled into university for the diploma. It's just saying "hey look I can go and work and do stuff despite the environment". Thing is that I am doing university part-time because it allows me to work full-time and my current job is sorta related to software engineering. I am writing and maintaining code and doing WordPress sites (not my proudest achievement)
how would i get into coding as a high school student?
Thank you for this video
wasted my time it's 2024 bruh get to the point
Computer science ❌
Computer math ✅
Yes, I agree, Computer Science programs, are much closer to this new name " Computer Math ". In computer science, they tell you that they want you to solve problems by using some Programming Language. BUT the problem is this, they expect you to know that computer programming language before you even start the course. SO when a specific course in Computer Science degree says that " course will use Java " , they usually do not spend time teaching you the language, they expect you to know it, or figure it out on your own while you do the course. SO to summarize, computer science programs will NOT teach you a programming language, you have to learn it on your own, and if you cannot do it, you will fail the course. SO you do not go into Computer Science in University with the expectation that they will teach you the language or give you enough time to learn the language, so it is just corruption on the part of the University. Basically only Community Colleges create courses meant for you to learn the Language, and sometime they even fail to deliver on this. But just saying Computer Science does NOT equal to learning of Computer Languages. And so this is the real problem. Now this video talks about that Software Engineering is the better practical way to learn languages, and I saw that even this is NOT TRUE. In software eng they also spend a lot of time on like strange theoretical courses that connect to the business management field of study, and they still don't do enough to really prepare students on practical computer programming. He also mentions the 1980's etc, back in the past, employers in large corporations knew that school was school, and industry was different, so they basically gave computer science graduates to learn what they needed in the workplace, so they basically got paid in the first year on the job to just learn. Note, by early 2000's, industry no longer wanted to train people on the job, and basically says "You better know these things"! SO corporations have become cheap, don't want to spend money to help people transition from school to industry!!! SO now you are on your own to learn the things that Industry wants you to have.
Got a degree in chemical engineering, 3.02 CGPA and from a top uni in my country. Got laughed at during the interview stage.
I give up
thats BS... if you go to SE or Developer job listings.
they often say a "CS" degree required, or equivalent.
Yh ofc but do other shit on top of that like internships and build connections
@@nickmando2329 They say that, but they most times actually dont reall, require it. If you got a good portfolio, you really dont need the degree for the job.
@@Chrischi_Z_GermanGUIwhy is that?
@@JonBerisha-ti1vl Because they aim to get the best possible. But at the end of the day, they need someone who can get the job done and if you have experience in the required field, the degree itself isnt really that important. The degree is like an insurance for them, especially if you are a junior dev.
@@Chrischi_Z_GermanGUI so you are saying you can get a job without a degree?What about cloud positions?Or IoT software side?Or networking jobs?
SWEs is a little different. SWE is the application of CS concepts and theory. However, SWE has a lot more communication between stakeholders and prospective end users. U need that personal touch and empathy to understand user requirements.
While you are technically correct, historically that is inaccurate. Prior to the mid to late 90s this was not the case, as having a computer science degree prepared you for a wide range of fields as a "software engineer/programmer/architect/systems engineer' as a job title, because at that time computing was much different than it is today. You didn't have the cloud, you didn't have java and you didn't have a dominance of the x86 architecture or linux. Not to mention in the 80s and 90s you didn't have anywhere near the number of computers scientists out in the workforce as today, so one or a few people had to do a lot. So at that time, a computer science degree taught you the intimate connection between hardware and software so you could design, develop, test and maintain software on a wide variety of dominant platforms from various flavors of unix, to main frames and lowly (at that time) PCs. It was only later that schools began to offer more specialized degrees in software QA, management and information science, software engineering, cybersecurity and so forth, which is what you are talking about. Basically those things are preparing you for specific jobs and roles vs CS which historically provided you the training to do a range of roles, some of which were not directly writing software at all. An old school computer science major should technically have been able to write anything from a system library, to graphics programs, an email client, a database system or device drivers. Web applications and services were not a thing back then.
Computing was not any different, and nothing *really* new appeared since mid-80s. Cloud? We had mainframes and superminis. Java? We had p-code, we had AIX and all that stuff. Linux? That funny little parody on Unix? We had a real thing. And at that time CS was a more properly mathematical, more purely theoretical discipline, not polluted with people who wrongly assumed they'll learn "to code" there and will earn money as code monkeys in a bank or whatever.
@@vitalyl1327 Coding with Java is very different than coding with C where you literally have access to the bare metal instructions specific to individual chips. And in the 80s getting performance in specific types of applications meant using specific chips with custom instruction sets designed to accelerate those tasks. An example is Silicon Graphics. All of that necessity of teaching hardware and low level systems architecture went out the window when Java came along and commodity x86 hardware. And no, managing servers back then was not like "the cloud" where provisioning is automated, but yes obviously you had data centers. Not to mention system engineering didn't mean picking the appropriate javascript framework to use.
@@willd1mindmind639 IBM TIMI was not much different from JVM (and likely inspired it, along with P-codes). This (and early Java) were not the use cases for top performance anyway, portability mattered far more.
@@vitalyl1327 The point was most programming didn't involve HTTP, Java Script or Html in the 80s and 90s. Java was the main reason for this change. The fact that you no longer had to worry about the complexity issues of C/C++ programming or how to build front end clients was a big change. And along with that your code was compiled for each specific piece of hardware and often involved specific libraries for that hardware with custom functionality. Keeping in mind that the portability of java as a language wasn't the biggest factor, but the fact Java contained built in support for HTTP processing. And that allowed for portability based on javascript and html on the front end as a major differentiating factor. So you no longer had to write custom socket programming in C/C++ to communicate over the network. Therefore, java lowered the bar to entry for programming and changed how programming and CS was taught, giving rise to the topic of this video being software engineering degrees, which didn't exist in the 80s and 90s.
@@willd1mindmind639 Even Cobol was not really platform-specific and was mostly portable. C/C++ was a very niche thing anyway, computing landscape was far more complex and diverse outside of that niche.
And I really wish HTML/CSS/Javascript never happened. We had a perfect stack before HTML became a thing - Tcl/Tk. Web stack did not solve any problems - it just introduced a ton of new ones.
And even in the 80s there was a clear separation between CS and SE. CS was always a purely mathematical, theoretical discipline. It was about computers as much as astronomy is about telescopes. Nothing really changed since then. And nothing really changed in SE when it's taught properly.
I don't think Harvard sells just the fact that you were chosen, it also sells a certification that you are able to pass their exams. It can be three to five years with intense workload.
That being said I don't like the American system where universities are run like a business and forces people to get into debt.
Great video👍
the real definition of software engineering: social skills
In the UK you have BSc (Batchelor of Science) Computer Science, BEng/MEng (Batchelor/Master of Engineering) Software Engineering check out Birmingham University/Imperial College
*Bachelor
so basically, CSE is like doing a basic level of study which then splits into multiple applications which are to be learnt separately. okay ! got that. I am starting with a BS in CSE with AI/ML. In India they offer CSE + some specialization which you can choose as per your interest.
they also offer CSE & DS/ AI/ML/ IOT/ CYBERSECURITY/ BIOINFORMATICS/ BLOCKCHAIN WEB3.
which one do you suggest as per the current market and prediction for next 3 years.
in india, all are shit. But u need atleast a degree to land a SWE job.
Go For the degree which requires u spending the least time on it.
TL;DR Go for the least difficult course and easy to get GPA course based on ur college. Enquire with seniors .
After getting in college grind leetcode and Codeforces and then pray god to land u a SWE offer
Get a CS degree with specialisation in AI. You will have a bright future ahead of you ;)
@@lazyemperor5182 thanks for trying to help me I will follow the easy course strategy you talked about. but that last part, thats average sheep mentality in india. do dsa do leetcode there are so many other things than this job-only mentality. sadly all indians are chasing non existent job markets which only takes few highly qualified people. considering you are not that senior that me, I would want to tell you that people who get hired using only leetcode grind and system design interview bootcamps also get fired within a year or two....
@@ai_outline yeah, I took CSE with specialisation in AIML.
I did not knew this when I was in my college hence I do pretty well with my subjects and didnt do anything for job related stuff, as bad luck my college didnt emphasised on this part. I feel pretty wasted sometimes but I am buidling myself slowly.
Getting into a good college is definitely not enough to get a good job, but the ONE reason someone would want to get into a good college is because of the network they can create, like if someone get's into a not so great college, the one thing that they will suffer the most in is crating a good network, so let's say someone gets into a bad college, how do you suggest they create a good network considering no one at college is really network material.
Computer Science is to software engineering just like chemistry is to chemical engineering and physics is to mechanical engineering.
Ultimately, what you can achieve is determined by your attitude, dedication, and interests. While degrees can be valuable, they often consume time that could be better spent pursuing your passions. The hiring process is flawed - regardless of your educational background.
This seems like you learned what a “representative heuristic” is and you couldn’t wait to tell everyone
Computer Technology is neither Computer Science, nor Software Engineering or Web Programming.
would it make a difference in getting a job as a software engineering if my degree would be in Computer Science and Engineering?
i looked for a cs program in our area but there are none so i went for IT instead. thank God.
Very well explained.
The college data Obama was talking about was from kids that grew up in the 80s & 90s. They went to college in the 2000s.
software engineering is a specialty of computer science in universities that don't have software engineering as part of the engineering faculty.
Computer Science(The Creator/ Build) Invents, while Software Engineering(Power User) uses CS Creation. JavaScript was invented by Brendan Eich in 1995. Brendan Eich received a bachelor's degree in mathematics and computer science at Santa Clara University and his master's degree in 1985 from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. 1995- JavaScript, a just-in-time, object-oriented programming language, is introduced. JavaScript allows for interactive web pages and is used by a majority of web sites. 1996 - Rochester Institute of Technology presents the first bachelor's degree program in software engineering. Learn Computer Science or Mathematics to become the next Elon Musk.
Mechanics don't call themselves engineers. That title is a corporate upsale. Stop using the term. If you use someone else's tech, it's not yours. You didn't engineer jack. You put legos together. Very few people are engineers. For almost 30 years, I still hate the term. Installing a light socket or crimping ethernet, not engineer. Why would programmers/devs call themselves engineers? Because companies had to sell the job or the cert.
HELLOOO WHAT ABOUT College of Computer Studies and Multimedia Arts - Bachelor of Science in Computer Science with specialization in Software Engineering
??
Love your stuff
Why cant universities prepare you for data structure and algorithms better instead of you having to learn and grind on your own. One class doesnt count.
So, is any way to learn MS Computer Science other than college ..
Can you also study computer engineering if you want to become a software engineer
Why does every tech person sound the same? Like all of their delivery sounds the same.
They are NPCs lol
@@maalikserebryakov NPC fishing NPCs with a promise, that NPC will become MC.
I want to ask if there are jobs for front end engineers
Please make a video about the Mullaperiyar Dam in Kerala. 30 lakh lives are at risk, and the government is not taking appropriate action. We urgently need attention on this issue. This is a serious issue. This is a heartfelt request from us, the people of Kerala.
#decommissionmullaperiyardam
Start developing side projects since day one
Hackathons are terrible. Being able to write disposable code fast using superficial understanding of tools is a totally different skill than being able to plan, understand the trade offs of different ways of doing something and then implementing it to be maintainable for several years.
My hs teachers told me this
I’m studying software engineering
If only you'd made this video 16 years ago
My school's degree is called computer science and engineering.
When more people go to college, the value of BSc or a MSc devaluates. Simple economics that also applies to the knowledge market. So you'll be better of learning an applied trade. And I argue that EE is probably a better major as it also has CS concepts but you also learn about actually building hardware and it's a very practical degree because you can't learn electrical engineering without actually building things in the real world and that is a skill that has gotten lost.
Bro r u from CS background??
CS pays more than EE.
@@RLleeo I am from EE (and am working 31 years in every area of IT).
I have not said anywhere that EE pays more than CS. I said an EE degree is more valuable than CS because when you do micro controllers/embedded systems you also get CS, and you can work in any field in ICT, in Mechatronics, in hardare development, in embedded systems/
@@CallousCoderI'm going to start EE . But my heart cries for CS(honestly for salary, lucrative job, life). But there's no way to change it. After Batchelor-eee should I switch to MS-CS ? Won't it be so hard as I'll be pursuing MS-CS without 4 yrs basics?
Should I self-study DSA, DBMS,C, C++,JAVA,.. along with ee courses?
ee itself is so rigorous.
@@RLleeo I can't tell you what to do but I can tell you that when you specialise in embedded systems that you know as much, if not more than most CS people and you can definitely land an IT job. And learning programming already is a definite great investment.
My situation of doing EE was actually out of necessity to stay out of the military draft. I didn't want to do anything STEM. I am a musician or film maker. And I got in to the Amsterdam film academy but I'd rather study at the Royal Conservatory and the let me audition and I didn't get in. By then my spot at the Film Academy was also given. So my dad suggested to do EE (there was no trade school level CS it was all boring business IT) because I loved electronics (made a lot of guitar pedals) and I hacked my C64 to do bank switching so I knew my way around electronics. And I would do it 1 semester and I could then enter the Film Academy because my admittance film was so good (they said).
But for some reason EE clicked with me and I spend the whole 4 years graduating top of my class.
But I was good because I already knew assembly programming and I knew how the computers worked (the 8 but micros) so I had that knowledge and thus learning assembly, C and operating systems design (bare metal programming) was a breeze for me.
And when I graduated, it was 1994 a full on crisis. And I just started as an Field Service Engineer for a software house in medical systems. And I told them I wanted to program and I did extend some of their test sets and build some proxies for expensive blood analysis machines. Then I left after 14 months because I didn't want to do FSE anymore and I liked Networks and Novell netware so I became a sysadmin and in 1997 I build for them the first online bookstore in NL. So that was a coding and infra accolade, i left and my old employer hired me has a software engineer for a new program they'd bought. Ever since then I always worked in a hybrid of system design/admin (infra) and systems software development and Identity and Access systems.
So I didn't officially have a CS degree but I had CS in my EE classes and already 8 years of programming experience (started when I was 10 in Basic and did assembly when I was 13) so I build upon my own knowledge. And you can too. Most people in IT are THE WORST DEVELOPERS you will find! So any excellence and especially problem solving ability and giving business value, you'll be in.
@@CallousCoderwoohh man, u r too much intelligent & hard working no doubt . But I really wonder how u self-studied, as there were no huge online resources back in 90s!!!
Why IT guys r bad at development? As they r hired with CS background & extreme coding interviews , shouldn't they be better?
I need to find a video that has actual useful information. Just another video with a very specific target that doesnt include me.
Graduated with an associate in "Secure Software Development", managed to land a job 2 years after getting degree - only to be terminated from work performance. So much drmand even for junior level programming and so much to learn that isnt taught in a 2 year program. Now i gotta sift through tons and tons of job postings which most of them are wanting senior level experience. Thinkin i have to go back to hard manufacturing labor job now since i seem to be untouchable at this point.
hey guys, I'm still 16 but should I study computer science through a scholarship and then try to study software engineering in another scholarship? or masters in computer science THEN software engineering?