Jacob Hansen | The Nature of God and Christ in The Book of Mormon.
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
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In this episode with Hayden and Producer Chris get existential with Jacob Hansen from @thoughtfulfaith2020 looking to The Book of Mormon for answers.
The Stick of Joseph RUclips channel seeks to make the Book of Mormon accessible to all ages by making engaging, entertaining and informative content.
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Read the Book of Mormon when I was 14 and questioned everything. Went to study all the other major religions, and discovered a connection with all of them, but felt something was missing. Returned to the Book of Mormon and got baptized at 33.
Took the scenic route but still found it. Welcome back!
BoM is my favorite book, it brought me to Yeshua and to His Torah.
ruclips.net/video/jgUl1lclZAc/видео.html
I rejected and avoided EVERYTHING "Mormon" until Our Father had PREPARED ME in my life , as HE did YOU .
Having been thus *PREPARED* , I was _ready_ when two guys in white shirts & ties knocked on my door . I challenged them to PROVE that what they were teaching was TRUE .
As my challenge was itself pure, and that I genuinely conceded that _IF_ so , what _other_ choice COULD I make , but Baptism ?
Thus was I prepared to receive The Spirit in my learning - the Spirit of God which those two had brought with them , into my home and into my LIFE !
Thus I resumed the mist wonderful journey of my eternal LIFE !
Youre that naive. Did you actual read the writings of early church fathers?
@@Aaron-SLC catholic church fathers mix paganism into the religion
I agree Jacob. Now what about after establishing a belief and understanding of the Restoration? I left the church for more than 20 years. When I came back, I spent all my time building my beliefand testimony from the bottom up, like you said. After going through the logic of the steps you mention, the next big "leap" for me was the Second Coming of Christ. I remember early in my reactivation thinking "okay, Christ is real. The stories are real. The Book of Mormon is real. Those were real people. It's all real. Now that means Christ is coming again. If that past is real, the future is real." THAT is so hard for me to wrap my tiny brain around. This topic is not one I hear many LDS, in my circles at least, really talk about in depth - or take as seriously and I think might be warrented. And I admit, sometimes I feel a little foolish talking about the Millenium being here soon. It's hard to articulate what I'm thinking. I guess I'd like to talk more about specifically preparing for Christ's return and what that looks like. I'm beyond converstations about wearing garments correctly and other topics about keeping basic commandments and covanants. I'm there. I'm all in already. I want to talk about Christ coming.
If you go through the past two to three conferences and reread the prophet and apostles talks, and read the footnotes in their talks, that’s all they are talking about. From what I gather, the millennium is here, those who have prepared their lamps are being invited to witness the greatest miracles.
Why is the prophet building temples at such a massive pace? Why is he encouraging and pleading with us to attend often?
Christ is manifesting Himself to the pure in heart in His holy houses. He is also “marking” through covenant His people and preparing them for His return.
If you go to Matt Jeppson “Spiritual survival for the last days” RUclips, he goes over President Nelson’s pleadings and talks about the Second Coming!
It’s real, things are happening right before our eyes! It’s so exciting!
Matt Jeppson is a humble guy. An attorney for career, but feels so strongly the Lord is preparing the world. Those with eyes to see. Matt does not claim any special ability or knowledge, but goes over what prophets have been saying about our day. He also encourages us to seek. His posts have lit a fire under me! ❤️🙏🏻☀️
Even though the prophecies of our days are scary, Matt always talks about fear and faith and the amazing love God has for us.
Happy to hear you’re back and all in! I believe the wedding feast is not too far off, and we don’t want to miss it! 🔥
I feel this. Deeply. I crave the meat.
You're sitting up front with me. ❤❤❤
@@StaceyMayer Yes and amen😊
Read The Triumph of Zion by John Pontius and read putting on Christ by Steven Bishop
In the sense of whether the Mormon Jesus is:
More powerfu?
More loving?
More capable?
More knowledgeable?
Yes.
_Different_ is too vague. Superior? Certainly.
Latterday day saints believe in the right Jesus because Joseph Smith seen Him and He is the same Jesus of the bible John ch3 vs16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who soever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life we believe God the Father and GodHis son who is Jesus are 2 seperate people but the same in purpose
How are you coming to that conclusion? What is your premise?
Jesus of the New Testament is Yahweh. He is part of the Godhead. He is a member of the eternal family of God. He is the creator of all, the Law incarnate, the only source of life, and the only way to connect to God.
How is any other understanding above this ontological understanding?
In 3 Nephi 11, Jesus visited the inhabitants of Ancient America. Jesus declare this" Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world."
Please read the Book of Mormon, for it testifies of Jesus Christ. @@PrairieChristianOutreach
@@PrairieChristianOutreach What is the greatest gift that God can give you?
@@user-ux3vb5zg1p I an confirm that, read Joel 3;14-20 its all there in the bible about where the Lord will be speaking his words from in the last days and
what location he will be sending out all his latter-day revelations from it will be from out of Zion and later on from out of Jerusalem.
If the Lord was not speaking his voice from out of Zion in the last days as the prophet Joel is telling us he will be doing so then there would be no Restoration of the gospel back on the earth to restore back the prophets again to speak for the Lord in these last days. But the lord has restored back the prophets again and that's why he speak his voice from out of Zion. For Zion was set up to be a standard to the nations. Zion has the Lord's standards.. Zion is that stone kingom that Daniel and john the revelator saw in vision.
I can also confirm that its 2 separate people having the same in purpose because Daniel the prophet also saw the two lords appear to him just as Stephen and Joseph saw them and they were talking to him Daniel to face so both the Lords could be seen by Daniel so they were NOT invisible. and one of the two lords picked Daniel up with his own hands so we already know one of the lords already had a resurrected tangible body BEFORE Jesus Christ was even sent to earth to be resurrected in the flesh, someone else had a body of fleseh and bones to interact personally with daniel.
And again in Jeremiah Chapter 1 we see the same tangible interaction again when the Lord had touched jeremiah with his finger on Jeremiah's Lip an invisible spirit cannot do that. And this is before the time that Jesus was sent to earth in the flesh.
I rejected and avoided EVERYTHING "Mormon" until Our Father had PREPARED ME in my life , as HE did YOU .
Having been thus *PREPARED* , I was _ready_ when two guys in white shirts & ties knocked on my door . I challenged them to PROVE that what they were teaching was TRUE .
As my challenge was itself pure, and that I genuinely conceded that _IF_ so , what _other_ choice COULD I make , but Baptism ?
Thus was I prepared to receive The Spirit in my learning - the Spirit of God which those two had brought with them , into my home and into my LIFE !
Thus I resumed the mist wonderful journey of my eternal LIFE !
So how did they go about "proving" that what they were teaching was real?
Why are you capitalizing random words?
Loved this conversation. It has been so fulfilling the last couple years for me to learn more about the various philosophical problems and how our theology addresses them, as taught in the Book of Mormon. The restoration of the gospel through Joseph Smith is truly a marvelous work and a wonder. Loved everything shared here!
Once again, Jacob knocks it out of the park!
I like to say “Any intelligent thinking person who takes his religious epistemology seriously will eventually arrive at Latter-day Saint ontology.”
As Jacob said, you START with the question of “Who am I?”, then move onto the nature of reality, then the nature of God. If you create a logically coherent framework from this base, it is virtually inevitable to arrive at a view of the world that is in line with the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.
I watch/listen to a lot of LDS content here on RUclips. Stick of Joseph, Thoughtful Faith, Ward Radio, Saints Unscripted, etc. I'm not being hyperbolic when I say this: This episode/discussion was one of the BEST things I have heard in a WHILE! Thank you! This was absolutely amazing!
Now when an Evangelical tells me that I worship a "different Jesus", I'm going to respond with a "Yes, I do! Thank God!"
When Jacob was talking about the “First Apostasy” I couldn’t help but think how that first apostasy created the conditions for Jesus to be crucified. Such a necessarily thing out of something so tragic. God sure does work on mysterious ways and turns all things for our good.
Great insight.
And how the second apostasy was needed to usher in the restoration. And how this last apostasy will be required to usher in The Christ.
Oh, wow! Yes!
Another interesting parallel is between the relative religious freedom enforced by the Roman empire at the time of Christ and that provided by the US constitution. Christianity would not have survived during Josiah's reign, and the restored Church would not have survived in 17th century France.
@@pythonista466 so very true sir! Love when things align and we see the workings for the very purposes of the Lord.
I love Jacob Hansen. He is one of the 1st ppl I started listening to when I was struggling with my testimony & so many times his videos were an answer to very specific prayers. And this video is no exception. Thank you, Chris, for your comments about those who are struggling to submit to God. Those words have been so much on my heart the last few years, weeks, and even specifically days as we've been reading in Mosiah. Thank you so much. Love & appreciate you all, and love this channel so, so much. Can't wait until I get my hand on & mind in The Language of Adam.
So glad you commented and you're here Amanda!
One of the best discussions I’ve ever listened to! Brilliant!
This is the best thing I’ve heard in a long time.
Havent seen Jacob much lately😢 Hope his studio is coming along well. Much love
Great discussion and presentation. I felt the Spirit and extreme charity filled me while listening. I had an additional thought based on my own life experiences. As much as I have loved people in my heart, i have had occasions where church leaders, family who were church leaders and other members did not have the Spirit of Charity and Christs oneness and instead have exhibited elements of pride in a way that have hurt me tremendously. Ive also seen others poorly mistreated on occasion. I bring this up because i was brought up in a family culture where leaders were placed on pedestals which has away of tearing apart ones mental and emotional reality when leaders and/or members dont act in Christian-like ways. I bring this up in hopes that others like me wont struggle when a leader exhibits natural-man-like tendencies. The scripture "many are called but few are chosen" from d&c section 121 indicates that we place our faith in Christ and not in men. In doing so we allow Christ to rule over our hearts and spirits which provides grace that enables us to pray for leaders when they are weak. Reminds me of Moses when he had servants holding up his hands so they could prevail in battle. When he was weak the progress of the battle failed but when his hands were raised the children of Israel gained the upper hand. Supporting weak leaders who fail us and a ward or stake demonstrates our commitment to have the mindset and compassion of the Lord. But for heavens sake, i hope no other member experiences the pain, heartache, and horrific results that i have suffered due to several weak, uninspired, and uncaring leaders who acted as hirelings rather than as shepherds. I had to learn to pray for them. So i think the Lords judgment begins in his own house as he attempts to clean up some of the pride, ego, and lack of love of those who he allowed to be called but who took no effort in becoming chosen by neglecting desires to seek the Lords will and develop the Lords attributes.
Thanks for sharing!
For me the basic theme and testimony of The Book of Mormon is the Atonement of Jesus Christ, He is the way to return to our heavenly home, to the Kingdom of God.
The other restored doctrine that solves the problem of evil is the doctrine of the pre-mortal realm. That doctrine solves the problem of evil through consent. We consented to the conditions of life and the suffering that would come with it. The restored gospel is amazing.
Exactly! Amen.
yes my exact thoughts as well. There’s a saying that ‘you can’t taste the sweet without the bitter’ implying that we can’t know happiness without misery or suffering. If only the world had an open mind and heart to the simple plain doctrines of Christs gospel, life would become less miserable and more hopeful and comprehensible.
In addition to consent, we are coeternal with God as intelligences. This means he didn’t create our fundamental essence, and thus we are responsible for our agency.
@@ItsSnagret I like it.
Can you imagine the joy of brotherhood & sisterhood we hsve ahead? To meet & talk to Prophets & faithful from the beginning of time up to the present!
I don't know how I just found your channel this week, but I have loved every second. Ingested a huge chunk of your content for the last 7 days. Grateful you guys' are having these conversations and filling these spaces with such positive and thoughtful content.
The only thing that ultimately matters is, how do I change, absolutely change, my personality, my point of view, my thinking, my whole being, to become like Christ? Any attempt to give up on faith is simply a way to avoid the necessary change. As CS Lewis stated, “The terrible thing, the almost impossible thing, is to hand over your whole self-all your wishes and precautions-to Christ.”
But it is far easier than what we are all trying to do instead.”
It's rare that I feel the spirit on RUclips but this upload really got me in the feels. I love the content you guys put out and especially the temple and book of mormon stuff but it was also nice to have an episode like this to help me examine my own spiritual progression a little bit more. Thanks for having Jacob Hansen on. It was a very edifying video
Glad to hear it!
Rare to feel the Spirit on RUclips? Hmm. That used to be me. As I changed what I watched, however, I felt it more and more. Now I feel it every day. When I occasionally look back, I am surprised that I ever wanted to watch that stuff.
Good. Better. Best.
While listening to your discussion about how "opposition or opposites" is a principle woven into the fabric of the universe, it struck me that one could argue that creation is in some ways presented by Mosee as an act of DIFFERENTIATION. God divided the light from the darkness, the land from the sea and so on. Fascinating stuff!
Boom! That is awesome!
Naming it is also important. Nothing is fully differentiated until it is named.
Faith, hope, charity. In order, those are the answer. Each section of temple correlates to those. Those are the steps to unity. Those are the steps to become celestial.
Faith is needed for the covenants. The covenants give us hope. The fruit of that hope is charity. It will come from every pore if we fully submit and it will sanctify.
Jacob gets the Calvinists. I wish he had an hour to just discuss the monstrous implications of 5 point Calvinism.
This video was great and made me realize. I think as members of the church we need to periodically take a spiritual audit. Go through the Questions in Alma 5 and ask ourselves if the things we know and feel to be true, “can ye feel so now”. And if we don’t maybe start from the fundamentals again.
I love the symphony analogy! We can all play whatever we want, but if we play together according to the sheet music, we can make a beautifully harmonic symphony. 💕
In the Book of Mormon we read in 3 Nephi 11:14, eye witnesses heard and recorded this words from Jesus "Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world."
Fascinating discussion. No wonder God is one.
Jacob a great men, lives up to his name very well!!!!
Supplanter???
Oh. I guess it can also mean "to follow" or "may God protect".
Thank you for sharing this thought provoking and uplifting conversation. More please!
Thank you for questions, insights and your beautiful testimonies. I have been enlighten and edified.
I did not want this episode to end
Great conversation. Many validating talking points.
We love you Jacob for your work...
In the 90’s I explained to my four sons that the word “God” in heaven, is like the word “Eagle Scout” on earth, the process is the same… Jesus Christ was just the first of all us Children of Heavenly Father to get his eagle, the rest of us are all attempting to follow him and get ours too
I then asked my boys… so what was Christ’s Eagle Scout project…
Christ's eagle scout project is us: the gathering of God's children back to his home and ours.
It is a group effort and is taking a lot more than 24 man-hours.😅
Excellent episode!
Love this quote by President Spencer W. Kimball: “I have learned that where there is a prayerful heart, a hungering after righteousness, a forsaking of sins, and obedience to the commandments of God, the Lord pours out more and more light until there is finally power to pierce the heavenly veil and to know more than man knows. A person of such righteousness has the priceless promise that one day he shall see the Lord’s face and know that he is.” (“Give the Lord Your Loyalty,” Ensign, Mar. 1980, p. 4.)
We all need to condescend our neighbors and communities and serve as God does for all of use.
I just watched a video today about Christianity in Japan in the early 1600's. And something really stick out to me that relates to this discussion.
And I'm paraphrasing here, but the leaders in Japan seeking to eradicate the Christians basically Said "Your Christian God created all the suffering on earth, no wonder you nailed him to a cross and killed him"
This stuck out to me because of the irony that Christ would give his life for our suffering, at the hands of people taking his life for our suffering.
Therefore, let us glory, yea, we will glory in the Lord; yea, we will rejoice, for our joy is full; yea, we will praise our God forever. Behold, who can glory too much in the Lord? Yea, who can say too much of his great power, and of his mercy, and of his long-suffering towards the children of men? Behold, I say unto you, I cannot say the smallest part which I feel.
Is that Alma 26?
Zion = FAMILY :>)
Loved this one! Thanks Stick of Joseph and Jacob!
10:15. "Spirituality" is a sandy foundation.
16:11 ;)
23:05 _anti ex-nihilo_
32:20 different Jesus
35:30 _two_ great apostacies
41:44 submission to the will of God / Segway to covenant making
45:10 An inner change in each person that "subverts the need for the kingdoms of men.
48:00 together and playing the songs of zion.
John 17 has always been my favorite scripture, too! ❤❤❤
It takes a few readings to get the flow of it. It it touches my heart like no other.❤❤❤
They try to tell us we have a different Jesus to deny the fact that Joseph Smith seen Him otherwise i cant understand what part of Him they think is different our Jesus is the one in the bible who prayed to His Father not a strange type of 3 in 1 person
Loved this episode! Another one that basically confirms the thoughts and feelings I've been having myself as of late! Love this channel and how much goodness you guys are spreading! I keep wanting to write novels of my own thoughts and experiences and how they relate to these videos in these comment sections, but I think it's just enough to say thank you!
The Book of Mormon was written by 4 families: Lehi's family circa 600 to 500 BC, Mosiah's family circa 100 BC to 200 AD, Mormon's family circa 400 AD, Jared's family circa unknown. These family writers included 1) events 2) observations about those events 3) insights from their experiences and from prior prophets and scripture 4) analysis of commandments and analysis of obedience to commandments 5) temple ordinances (craftily cloked) and insight into those ordinances 6) Jesus as Savior, Mediator and Advocate.
Regardless of the specific identity and authorship of the writers, these 6 features are profound to anyone sensitive to profundities.
I was certified by John Covey, Stephen's brother who help him develop the 7 habits. When John found out I was a member, he pulled me aside and told me the 7 habits are the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Wake up people, "Mormons" preach the spirit of prophecy. WE CAN KNOW JESUS CHRIST!
False sorry not sorry.
@@jamesbrooks3664your disbelief doesn't change anything my friend
@@jamesbrooks3664what is false? That Mormons preach the spirit of prophecy? Or that we can know Jesus?
The first you can verify by simply examining the doctrine.
The second you can verify by living it. John 7:17 John 17:3
I appreciate listening in to your conversation. Thank you! ❤
Such a great episode!
Thank you for making this!❤
1:00:02 He also experienced either a) having only daughters (not a bad thing) or b) having a son who was not worthy to carry on the priesthood legacy (heart wrenching).
Yes! I recently found Jacob Hansen on RUclips, originally from a debate between him and Hayden Carroll and Apologia. I enjoy when you have visitors on. BTW, when are you guys going to get David Alexander or David Boice on?(No offense intended)
Yes David Alexander
By the way, @thestickofjoseph, is the docuseries out already, like on netflix or something? We don't have much streaming services, so I don't know where it would come out on. keep up the great work!
Dear 2050's:
When you get around to it, please consider Jacob Hansen for 1st Prez.
@@readwriter if we’re not in Zion way before then, we are in serious trouble. While I appreciate Bro. Hansen and this channel, we won’t need this, the Savior will be leading us.
This is among one of my favorite episodes! Thanks to all 3 of you. So much to think about and it really gave me some insights that I had never thought of before!! So freaking good!!
What an awesome video. Thankyou!
There is so much in this episode, I’ve listened 3 times and will probably listen another 3 times. Great work
Remember there was only one plan presented. Lucifer rebelled against that plan and wanted the power and glory.
This was an incredible interview.
Love the content you guys put out. I've just recently started watching, and you've already earned a subscribtion from me. I loved the paraphrased quote that Chris gave about being given glimpses into your future in the Celestial kingdom. I'd like to add that that's also possible for the past as well. As I've studied the gospel, prayed, and searched for who I WAS, I feel that I've received small glimpses or impressions of who I was in the pre-existance, which has given me strength and understanding on who I am, and who I will be given I follow the teachings of Christ
Great discussion !! Loved it
I’m kind of surprised that so many evangelicals jump on stuff like Jesus being satan’s brother when one of the implications of our doctrine is the idea that there are some things that God just can’t do. You’d think that’d be more controversial, but maybe it has the advantage of being self evident. God couldn’t save mankind without sending Jesus Christ. There are some things that God could not teach us without sending us here.
I do have one interesting question for the “God created demons and evil people” crowd.” Do evil people deserve the chance to exist? Would it have been right for God to say, “well I know this person will never be like me, and will never overcome any of the selfish and perverse ideas of their heart, so I guess I just won’t let them live.”
They already believe there are things God can't do. Ask them why they don't believe in Exaltation.
God either lacks the power or the will.
Non-LDS Christians dont believe in a different Jesus. They just dont know him as well as LDS do.
Because we know him so well, they think it's a different Jesus.
I have that same view. We just know more about Him and invite others to do the same
Simple and to the point. Well said .
To some extent I disagree. They believe in the Trinity, we don’t. They believe Jesus was the earthly manifestation of God on earth, we don’t. They can not explain the nature of God and Christ, we can. Yes we both worship a Jesus that suffered and died on the cross for our sins but they worship a Christ who is the same being as the Father, we worship a Christ who is the spiritual and earthly Son of the Father. We worship a different Jesus than they do. Just accept it for what it is and why they don’t like us.
From here the audio is coming just fine.
Card carrying Brighamite here.
I believe in a "different" Jesus that creates souls that are given a _fair opportunity_ to learn about and recieve Him in a _fair and ethical_ way.
I believe in a "different" Jesus that values our soveriegn will or "agency" and that set-up a plan of salvation _respecting_ this trait and that goes to considerable work to preserve it.
I believe in a "different" Jesus that does not send his children to hell just for *_being born at the wrong time or place_* when or where they would never even have heared about Him.
In short, I believe in a Jesus that gives me a Divine _Informed_ Consent.
_CONVERSELY_
I do not believe in a calvanist or westminster "jesus" that would create souls in the hundreds of billions only to torture and destroy them. I cannot imagine that sort of "jesus" producing the goodness and faith in souls necessary to lift the children-of-men out of the _fallen_ condition we find ourselves in.
Wow . MASYERFULLY stated .
Thanks !
I'm guessing you're not LDS because we don't believe that Jesus created our souls. God the Father created our souls including Jesus' soul. Jesus is our Brother who died for our sins.
This is deaf defining!
Reload the page. Sometimes it does that if you are one of the first to click.
Take a look at "The Ancient Tradition" podcast. Id like to hear your take on it. I love Jacob's perspective on most things. Thanks for having him on.
If you liked Covey's 7 Habits, you should read Covey's The Divine Center which explains the habits in the context of the Gospel.
Have you seen the haters who hate the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! Yes, it is obvious to me that I definitely have a different Jesus than they do, nor would I ever consider following that kind of Jesus.
Yes! I don’t want to follow their monster of Jesus
"Getting rid of standards ..." I'd never considered _that_ , my free will being so important to me . Not sacrificing my testimony of Moral Agency on the altar of personal speculation, I see also the place in truth - for the concept of the removal of standards in the Doctrine of The Fall - an extension of the Fall in the pre-existent War against God , and against US .
11:08 finally somone else said it. Lucifer's plan wasn't to make pupits of everyone. No one would agree to that. His plan was do whatever you want. No consequences. Everyone gets a prize. If your choice doesn't matter, did you ever have a choice? No, and that is how he would have destroyed the agency of man. He didn't change his plan when he was rejected.
He went to the garden and tried to fulfill the role of the God in giving the fruit to Adam & Eve. Now they are his followers, he gets to be the Savior. He still teaches his plan, if he gets enough people to follow, Father will have to repent. I think that is what he is going for.
Strange how too much mercy is no mercy at all. There must be justice, and pain, and consequences. If we stay silent to spare someone's feelings, or give everyone a trophy so they don't feel bad, whose plan are we following.
@@JohnSmith-lm9gr I want to further your thoughts too. If everyone “wins” because there are no consequences, no rules, everyone gets a prize, then in reality we are all- or at least the huge majority will be- victims of some nature. Victims of violence, unaliving, bullying, cheating, sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse. If we follow satan’s plan there are no enticings to be a good moral person. People rarely master their own selves and give in to impulses and the natural man.
34:00 yes I agree. It's more so the old testament that was lost. It's pretty obvious when reading the new testament they had other books of scripture they quote in the nt we don't have today to refer to.
Slaycob Hansen at it again 💪🏻
Minute 34:00. This is the first RUclips discussion to mention Plato's concept of God. Cudos. Plato argued that since God is perfect and since nothing in the material world is / can be perfect, therefore God is not material. This is the classic 'since / therefore' sentence. A+B=C. Constantine's 4th century group of clergy, lead by Athanasius, wrote the Nicean Creed after the philisophy of Plato.
But, in the immortal words of Neal Maxwell, "What was intended as a compliment turned out to be an insult." Unimaginable to Plato's mind, God - as a material being - had achieved perfection. Mic drop.
The April 8, 1966 cover of Time magazine reads:
Is
God
Dead?
Truman Madsen answered the question with: "Yes, your God is dead; in fact, He was never alive." Meantime, the God of the Book of Mormon is 1) perfect 2) material 3) alive. Now, that is a God that I want to know about.
32:48 scholars would say we have a different Christology-our understanding of his nature, what he did, and how he saves us. People have been debating these questions for centuries. Then Joseph Smith came and said, "Presbyterianism isn't true: I saw the Lord and he told me. He answered all of these important questions. Stop arguing and follow him."
Fantastic discussion!
Jacob write a book about " God is not the problem" will be great!!!
Love this discussion!!
Jacob is great.
We must understand that even God the Father must adhere to eternal laws of godhood and the celestial realm, for He is a celestial being. If he doesn't he will no longer be God. Thus, within those encompassing laws, the sinful are lost and cannot return to his presence, UNLESS the Atonement and a Savior was established, which meets the laws of justice, and introduces the laws of mercy that allow Jesus Christ to claim us, and cover our sins, if we repent and embrace his atonement for ourselves. Otherwise we remain fallen and list until we change or pay for our own sins ourselves.
Amazing episode!
At ~36 minute mark, when you're talking about when Lehi and his family left Jerusalem... if you've ever read 1 Nephi chapter 1 (a little humor here), and ponder the response of the Jews when Lehi preached to them about "the coming of a Messiah, and also the redemption of the world"... "when the Jews heard these things they were angry with him; yea, even as with the prophets of old, whom they had cast out, and stoned, and slain; and they also sought his life, that they might take it away" you realize that long before Lehi's time, throughout millenia, the Jews were in apostasy.. that the plain and simple truths had been removed from the Old Testament...
This should be obvious when we read from 1 Nephi to Alma Chapter 37, verse 33 and beyond, when the Prophets, years before Christ is born, THEY MENTION HIM BY NAME, 33 "Preach unto them repentance, and faith on the Lord Jesus Christ; teach them to humble themselves and to be meek and lowly in heart; teach them to withstand every temptation of the devil, with their faith on the Lord Jesus Christ."
In Lehi's time, the Satan-inspired Jews, despised when Lehi mentioned The Messiah.They would have roiled even more had he mentioned that the Messiah's name is Jesus Christ.
Great discussion thank you. Around the 46 min mark you were discussing the kingdom of heaven. It was said that it is a utopian vision. I don’t like this but I can accept it. As was pointed out, modern attempts at utopia have ended in violence. I see a modern attempt in full swing in our education system. D.E.I. Is neo Marxism. When I speak with advocates for this ideology they clearly state that government systems need to be in place to change society. Exactly as was said in your discussion. I find it so interesting that this ideology professes to desire a society where everyone loves and accepts each other but they believe that can achieve it through force. I love D&C 121:37 authority is s lost when an individual exercises control, dominion or compulsion on others. I appreciated Luke 17:21 that the kingdom is in our hearts. It happens from the inside out.
Why is it that many people truly desire the peace and love of the kingdom yet refuse to even entertain the idea of Christ and organized religion?
Would’ve loved to hear you guys get into what the law actually is. so much to unpack in that and even what justice means.
Anybody else not have audio?
Reload the page. Sometimes it does that if you are one of the first to click.
You're lucky!
Very nice discussion. My life experience was heavy on manifestations of the Holy Ghost which greatly overshadowed seeming injustices in the world that God didn’t seem to rectify in the present. I find it curious that there are those who say God wouldn’t act in certain ways and therefore he doesn’t exist, or otherwise limit God by some other similar type of conditional action or lack thereof. They are free agents and, of their own independent will, can choose to do good to others as a means to rectify evil on their own. If they would do that, they would start to understand why God acts as he does and start seeing God carries out his will by using average people who want to follow God.
1:02:15 the journey is not a travel log. It is a temple structure that parallels the visions.
2 Nephi is a legal document that will be used in the last day to judge everyone in this dispensation.
the domes on this episode are top tier
❤
Great content y'all.
The Book of Mormon and the Bible teach that Jesus is the one eternal God who is the principle creator of the earth and it's heaven. There is no other. Neither book says Jesus is the only God in the Universe. In fact... both Books tell us He has a Father!! :>)
My Mormon friends tell me they believe in Jesus of Nazareth which is the same Jesus that all other Christians believe. Just because one Christian sect believes differently doesn’t mean that others should then say they believe in a different Jesus. They just believe in different principles than you do! That’s it! Christians all of sects/faiths should be rallying together right now and not dividing given the world we are living in!!
The LDS Jesus had to earn his way to Godhood like all the other gods before him..
John 1:1-3 shows us who Jesus truly is❤
Jesus is both
But satan's firstborn son does go out there deceiving many Believers. This copycat Jesus deceives many churches
Son not sin
We will not be big G gods
Wow never been the first to the video or the comments.
At the 15:40 mark, Jacob says people are falling away and lumps Baptists with atheists and vague spiritualists and says they lack the foundation in Christ. Is he saying he doesn't think Baptists are Christians? BTW, I am LDS , not Baptist. I am just confused how he groups them together like that.
Love to see it. Jesus is the Christ. The Son of God. The book is blue, the church is true 💯🫡🤝🏽
Minor historical correction Hayden, there was only The Father's plan, and Satan was opposed to The Father's plan. Satan did not propose "a plan". He opposed The Ftaher's plan. I do believe Satan's idea was to get rid of standards so we end up in the same place. Sorry to be nit-picky.
When is Jacob going to write a book?
I love everybody in this comment section
Listen to the Unshaken Saints Podcast if you want to understand the concept of proving contraries.
Do you have any plans to have an ex-mormon, or a believer who's a scholar on the history of the church and Joseph Smith's history? There's a lot of church records that are pretty scathing towards Smith that are never talked about and I would like to see more discussions about those topics.
Brother Covey wrote another book before 7 Habits. It was called Spiritual Roots of Human Relationships. Same principles. Not nearly as popular.
55:46 Moroni 8:17 written by Mormon. One guess at the meaning of the name Mormon is "enduring or everlasting love".
Imagine if we called this book The Book of God's Everlasting Love-Another Testament of Jesus Christ.
They believe in the correct one. If you believe in a God and Christ different than the LDS, read and study more.