David Butler and Mike Day | The Lost World of Genesis One
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
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In this episode David Butler and Mike Day share the book, “The Lost World of Genesis One” by John Walton. They discuss the nature of God, the historicity of the Garden of Eden account, and how one can reconcile science and faith.
The Stick of Joseph RUclips channel seeks to make the Book of Mormon accessible to all ages by making engaging, entertaining and informative content.
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Podcast/Series title:
"Out of the Best Books"
Ooo i like this one best
Love this!
This is the best one.
This is the one!
@@JerrBaybEe 😂 That’s exactly what I just thought
“ oooooo! That’s a good title!”😅
Mike and Dave's adventures in offending evangelicals, biblical literalists, and young earthers. Sincerely don't stop making these lol they're great
Actually, I'm a young earther and take no offense to this view. It fits exactly where I feel Genesis fits. God created this earth. We don't know how. The Bible seems clear, but we don't yet have all the answers. I'm good with that.
LOL 😂 this totally contradicts Science and the Big Bang.
Genesis may NOT be Ex Nihilo but Colossians 1: 15-17 IS.
Your clueless if you don't think Mormons R YEC and hyper literalists of the Bible.
John Walton is a Trinitarian and these guys trying to use him like Mormons cite C.S. Lewis is hilarious as he was a trinitarian also.
They both would reject your understanding of their writings and theology.
Just more. Mormon CYA ing of Christianity's Theology and Science.
Your false claims of an infinite universe is NOT what John Walton is defending and Colossians 1:15-17 IS Ex Nihilo.
Genesis is the description process God used after the Big Bang ( the start of the universe).
, infinite regression of Mormon gods and infinite Mormon Universe are both distortions of the Biblical Theology.
John Walton and C.S.Lewis R both trinitarians and would NOT buy your counterfeit Gospel Theology.
U trying to use them to support Mormonism is hilarious!!!
You're pathetic and we're NOT offended at your confusion: it's SO irrational with an infinite regression of gods and infinite universe.
@@PBott-mvmuse
MG Money can block, me but they're still irrational and ignorant of Colossians 1-15-17 of Ex Nihilo creation!!!
Walton is a Trinitarian and doesn't believe in their infinite universe which is debunked by Science also.
I say this segment should be called “hallway Sunday school “ 😂 please keep them coming
I wait with bated breath for Dave Butler, Mike Day, episodes!! I love the channel. I love the guests. You guys are doing a great work among the saints.
Invite Andrea back sometime soon. She was awesome!
This is the PERFECT format. It‘s what everyone who wants to get to the next level needs.
Remember the world was created spiritually before it was created (or organized,) temporarily or physically…
Dave and Mike, (and 2 attractive yunggins') PLEASEEE keep doing this! I drive a lot and you guys keep me sane! Not possible to read since the authorities frown upon reading and driving.. Utah drivers will thank you!! Rock on!
@@tracygorder6640 this!!😂❤
Skinny books…!!! 📕 thank you for that Mike! (…that touches the heart of this ‘ole tired school teacher Who used to tell her 8th grade LA a
students the same thing. Skinny books!You can do it!
- Not to mention that I love his Book Club idea already!!
It’s wonderful for my 80HD that won’t let me focus to
long.
#audiobooks ❤
#beingreadto ❤
For what it's worth, I could watch you all daily. In fact if you could somehow work Wayne May into the mix I don't think I would watch anything else. I was baptized into the LDS church in January of this year. You guys play a major part of my testimony. FYI one vote for "Mike and Dave read books"
Excellent choices to follow, also congrats on taking the jump
"Off the Reservation With Mike and Dave" That's what you should call this new segment. We love when you guys have Mike and Dave on, I have grown by leaps and bounds with All you guys. Keep it up.
That might have to be for when they go over the Birch Bark Scrolls with Chief Midegah (exept, that might not fly well with Brother Midegah)
LOL
and LOL this too
Perfect! Off the reservation!
OH! MY! GOSH! I LOVE THIS IDEA!!!
I studied religion at a California State University (definitely NOT from an LDS perspective), and it was enlightening! "All things bear record of (Him)!"
I love to study the scriptures and have tried to get a "Book Club" going in my local ward for more in-depth study, but it hasn't taken off. My only suggestion is that you tell us in advance what the next book for discussion is so that we can read it beforehand if we are able.
Thank you so much to the whole crew for sharing with us!
Great idea
Can't wait to listen to more of "Mike and Dave's Biblical Adventures"!
Neal A. Maxwell said, "…The Book of Mormon is like a vast mansion with gardens, towers, courtyards, and wings. All the rooms in this mansion need to be explored, whether by valued traditional scholars or those at the cutting edge. Each plays his role, and one Latter-day Saint scholar cannot say to the other, 'I have no need of thee.'" - ["The Children of Christ", BYU Speeches, 4 February 1990]
Of course he was referring to The Book of Mormon, but I'm certain it applies to all the texts, whether they are considered scripture or not.
I appreciate hearing your voices addressing David's point at 6:14, "… the goal is to say … what are the uses and abuses of scholarship…." I feel we have a coalition of traditional scholars who will not venture far from the party line to consider other narratives. I applaud what you are doing. Keep it coming!
My father left us when I was young and these episodes are the "Dad conversations" that I have always wanted. Thank you for filling this void for me! These episodes with Dave and Mike are my very favorite!
Love this❤️
I actually like the name "We don't know yet"...it implies a search for answers to questions we don't fully understand, but the yet shows that answers will come.
AGREED!!!
As we await further light and knowledge.
Babe come quick! A new episode of "Mike, Dave, and attractive young people" just dropped!
I can listen to you guys all day, and with Mike and Dave that’s even better! Thanks for these treasures you guys keep bringing! 🙌🏾 ✨ ☝🏾 ⚱️💎✨
We are interested in seeing Hayden and Jackson and some attractive old people do book reviews on some really cool books for all of us gospel and book nerdy people out here in the RUclipsverse, too.
For those who don't understand the phrase "turtles all the way down" it is a reference to some Eastern traditions which say that the earth is on the back of an ox standing on a turtle, and when asked what supports the turtle, they answer "another turtle" and so on. It's a phrase meant to say "who created the creator? No one knows."
interesting overlooked tidbit, latter day saint scripture quite explicitly states that the 6-day creation was a spiritual creation only and that the physical creation came afterward.
We could call it "Mike and Dave's Excellent Adventure Studying the Scriptures", a spin off from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. The thing is, we never know where they are going to go next, despite wherever they start. And that's what I love about these adventures - they are raw, unscripted, and from the heart. But every time I learn so many new things that blow my mind and enlighten my soul.
23:18 reminds me of another commentary I read where bara was to gather raw/chaotic materials together. Then the first three days are spent dividing those raw materials: 1 light/dark, 2 earth/sky/heavens, 3 wet/dry. Then the next three days are spent filling: 4 fill the heavens, 5 fill the fill the sea and sky, 6 fill the earth.
I've been waiting patiently for another discussion like this from you four. It's like we're sitting there with you participating. Keep'em coming please!!
Mike and Dave once a week please! Thank you 🙏
Mike and Dave's Center For Kids Who Can't Read Good
Also, Mike coming in hot with the Fenty Beauty reference is killing me! 🤣
Dude… I’ll listen to Mike and Dave every day!
Writing this as I’m waiting on the ads to end and haven’t watched a single second, and yet this is exactly the content I needed 😂
The Joseph Smith Papayri is one of my all-time favorite books! It helped me to understand that Christianity LITERALLY preceded Christ's ministry in formal religions among major (all?) societies throughout history.
I don't think I could ever hate a video with Dave Butler and Mike Day!
This was awesome! I love how naturally they blend scholarship and history with scripture, not to disprove it, but to help us understand the context behind it.
"We don't know yet" is a great name for a book club with mike
The best way to teach uncomfortable things is to just teach them. Its harder to work through it when it feels like everyone just tried to hide something from you.
MORE PLEASE!!! DAVE & MIKE!
Aloha, one if the thinks I do not get about Sunday classes. Learning the Book of Mormon, Old and New Testament is that what is be hide the scriptures. Listening to these programs help me find out what the culture and society was back then. We ready and define the scriptures in modern ideals and we miss the meaning.
This is exactly what I want from you guys. Thank you!
Mike and Dave Read! I love it. Sounds so simple, when none of the content is simple!
I love Mike and Dave as your guests. I’m a convert to the Church from the evangelical church. I find the contrasts so fascinating!
I absolutely love this!! Thank you Paul bros and Mike and Dave!❤
More of this...I'm captivated with ANYTHING Dave and Mike are talking about!
This is perfect!! I am totally here for this and I hope you continue to do this forever!!! I love Mike and Dave!!
Don’t stop guys. Please keep it coming. Can’t wait for the next episode, and thank you all.
I'm hooked!!! Keep this conversations going! I love it!!
You guys are killing it!!! Keep it up!!!
Mormonism was dead a long time ago!!!
I'd listen to this all day! Please bring more! Dave and Mike on The Stick of Joseph is my favorite RUclips content!
Yes!!!!
“Sunday school in the Hall..” 🤜🤛 💥🎤
😂 I absolutely love these guys
I heard that to fulfill or destroy, was an old idiom for correctly interpreting for misinterpreting. So Jesus fulfilling the law, would have been him correctly interpreting its purpose. Not just checking it off the to-do list.
I also heard from a local rabbi that to seal or loose was an idiom for prohibit and permit. So the power to seal a marriage is to prohibit its separation. Likewise for Peter the power to seal or loose gave him authority to permit gentiles to convert while prohibiting them from eating meat given to idols. It is also what would have given Joseph Smith the authority to permit polygamy or Brigham Young to prohibit alcohol and tobacco as a church matter.
One big problem with this podcast: it's making me want to buy even MORE books. I don't have time to read all this stuff! But great material. I hope you guys keep doing more of these.
Would love to have a recurring segment.
There are quite a few RUclips videos featuring John Walton explaining his research and insights into the book of Genesis. Resting on the Sabbath has nothing to do with taking a nap. When a rocket lands, it comes to “rest” on the earth. According to Walton, when God rests on the Sabbath day he is taking his place in His temple and now the real work begins (the work of saving His children).
That’s not just according to Walton, that’s according to ancient thought, too!
I just like how (in the handful of podcasts I’ve just listened to featuring Walton) he is sure to adamantly affirm that “just because the text and ancient understanding doesn’t show ‘creation from nothing’ does not mean that God didn’t create everything, including all matter!!” And the fact that he disagrees with Heiser about the reality of the Divine Council. And both he and Heiser disagree that Israel ever had anything to do with any God other than YHWH (well, at least officially. Obv the OT shows that they did “know strange gods” from time to time). Or I suppose, the reality that other gods besides YHWH might actually exist (at least for Walton’s part. Heiser has no problem saying there are other ‘gods’ besides YHWH, but only one God. Who is obv triune. Obviously)
Anyway I find it interesting that they both go out of their way to affirm the authority of scripture while simultaneously down-playing (de-emphasizing..?) what the text seems to actually say about certain credal ideas 🙃
@@gingersnaps215there R cycles or idolatry and repentance starting in the Book of Judges: YHWH has Judged Israel and Judah for going after strange gods of other cultures: Heiser doesn't deny that BTW.
They even put up idols in YHWH's Temple which got them deported to Babylon.
But Abraham in Genesis 14:22 states YHWH IS God Most High: NOT the Canaanite EL. as the other Canaanites believed in their pantheon.
Try to follow somebody else besides Mormon Dan McClellan as a source of his Dogma over Data channel!!!
I’ve never listens to Dan McClellan, and I didn’t say Heiser denied the following of strange gods in Israel’s past. And I’m aware of the idols, which is why I said the OT mentions the following of strange gods from time to time.
Try not to assume things about others from one comment void of much context about potential sourcing of ideas (beyond the ones clearly stated).
The world according to Mike and Dave
This is just what I am looking for. And I Could listen to Dave and Mike all the time. I love that they are sharing their knowledge. thank you so much for this. Monthly is great. I’d like to know what the next book would be so I can try to read it before the discussion and then go back over after.
Enjoy watching you all illuminate and invite us into the discussions. Been waiting a long time to hear Dave's insights again. Thank you all for making time for this.
Love it! Did Mike say . . . The Ancient Tradition? Awesome!
I love these shows
“Under the Tree with Mike and Dave”
…
Just eating some good fruit together under the tree. 😊
Thanks for the great episode guys!
Is this where you get the Album “Sebus - Dave Butler Unplugged with the Ward Radio Singers”?
Seriously this is a fantastic format I’m in
LOL
Touring Books with Insight by Mike and Dave
Thank you for taking time to teach others. I’d love to see more like this.
More temple theology and deuteronomist content
ANTI-DEUTERONOMIST
You all are simply fantastic! Thank you for making learning a little easier and enjoyable.
I love love love this kind of material. It clearly shows, what is important, is the truth. It does not mater that the truth comes from people who are not of our same religion. We are counceled to read good books and books of wisdom. I feel many people within "their" own religion feel they can only read books written by people of their same religion. It seems, so many truths are missed by staying in a self created box. One more thing, I feel many people fear being led astray by authors that they are unaware of. These types of pod casts creates a safe space to explore and to step out of that self created invisible box. Great job.
Just bought In the Language of Adam. Stoked to read it!
YES!!!
Thank you, I love this idea!
Sooooo excited.
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!!
I got Dave’s book a couple of weeks ago. Read it through once and was absolutely mind blown. Started reading it now a second time, with my wife.
I've used Strongs Concordance to look things up but have learned to be careful because they give some of the words their Evangelical twist.
I think there are better concordances now, but the Strong's is the only one I've seen in the public domain. It was still a giant expensive book when I was a kid, and its great now to have it as an open online resource. The Evangelical commentary on difficult passages can sometimes be a bit comical, but I think most are doing so honestly and with good intent.
Like u Mormons don't twist everything outta context from Authentic Christianity.
Really enjoying these podcasts! Thanks Dave and Mike for your great insights and evaluations most of us don’t/can’t take the same time to delve into these deeper issues or dive deeper into even more surface topics!
John Walton does a darn good presentation to so you can pull up one of his videos and get the main points of one of his books.
Ive heard a translation of gen 1:1 as "at the start of the creation of the heavens and the earth"
Thank you gentlemen and all the powers that support you blessing us with enlightenment as you do
My vote is for "Out of the best books"
This is so exciting for a wanna be nerd such as myself 🤓
Wow. Mind blown AGAIN as usual. Thank you all!
Petition for Dave and Mike to enlighten us on the cosmology of temple liturgy.
Absolutely the favorite thing I want to end my day listening to. Thank you all so much for helping us learn more about the scriptures and the gospel. Please make it a regular session. Love it. ❤️
Bring Your Truth w/ Mike and Dave
I love the discussions like this. I learn so much. Please give us more especially with Mike and Dave.
more more more Dave and Mike and book discussions. loving this
Yes! Please do episodes on all the ancient creation myths, stories!
Dave Butler, Mike Day, episodes I always rewatch. You all are great together like sitting in a class, just Teaching and learning together. Keep this going, Thanks.
I totally loved this. And I read the comments and agree. Let's do more book reviews. And I like the name, "Look, we really don't know, but ...."
Just the other day I had a clear prompting to get more of a scholar perspective, a deeper/ richer understanding of scripture. I struggle with dyslexia so getting a clear understanding of the book before I picked it up and read it myself would be a huge tool!! With that said this book club idea is 100% what I want and what God is telling me I need. I’m here for it!
I hope you will continue this segment. I derive much growth and knowledge from conversations like this. Thank you one and all for taking the time to provide us with your experience and understanding.
Please do more of these-call the series Stick Reviews, or Josiah’s Forbidden Reading List, or Haikal Me Maybe Book Reviews, or Other Great Books Not In The Bible, or Ohr Reading.
Haikal Me! I don’t care who you are that’s funny
Many sticks
I love this idea!!❤
I ABSOLUTELY love what you are all doing! You are on the right track and inspire all the rest of us!
Learn Out of Good books , words of wisdom.
Is in my patriarchal Blessings
Please continue
Many people are scared to go out beyond church publications doctrine yet yearn for so much more .
I really liked this format. I think that having guidance on what books might be interesting and informative is really of high value. Thank you for pointing others toward information that was transformative for you guys.
Brazil here 🙌🏾 I'm reading the for a weak and still in chapter 3 because I study one chapter 2 or 3 times. Just wordefull How much insights It gives
Good work guys 👏🏾
Mike seems to be getting younger with every episode. He opens up more. His skin completion is clearer, he seems happier. Good on ya Bro Day.
Bro yes! Could you tease the next book before? If some want to read it first, or am I nerding out too hard?
I literally have a list of books to read from Mike’s list on the talking scripture website, that I could find for free on the internet archive library site and other free sites (my local library only has so much to offer in the way of niche religious literature).
WAY more books than I have time to read, but I’m right there with you! Name the book so we can read it beforehand, please! 😁
I have several of John Walton's books. Love them all.
This is a cool idea. Go. Go. Go!
Please more of all of you. I learn so much from DJ and Mike and Paul bros. I like the Hallway Sunday school for a name.
I actually love the “Mike and Dave read books”!
LOVE these so much!! I’ll take as much of these Mike and Dave adventures with you guys as I can get!!
Are you kidding me? This is the best idea ever ! So excited for this 👍🏻🙏
Dave and mikes bookshelf. Or a take on cliffs notes, butler Day notes.
About renting the Veil in the temple, Christ is called the first born so it makes sense that he would rend the Veil of his mother's womb for all to follow. He was the first to make it into his parents presence, like being born. Once he opened the womb the rest could come. I've heard the garden of eden story/our story as being that of a womb.
I love these videos with Mike and Dave! Please keep doing these book overview videos, it is a great way to build a library of study. You could call it "Book Club with Mike and Dave"
Love this. Seriously one of my favorite groups discussing esoteric relations to ancient text. Builds my faith in God and His plan and fortifies it. Love it guys! I want more.
Here’s some names that ChatGPT came up with for Mike and Dave’s books segment:
1. "Bibliophile Bros"
2. "The Page Turners: Mike & Dave"
3. "Lit Legends: Mike & Dave"
4. "Book Buffoonery"
5. "Read and Laugh with Mike & Dave"
6. "The Hilarious Bookworms"
7. "Chuckles & Chapters"
8. "Mike & Dave's Literary Larks"
9. "Laugh Lines & Story Spines"
10. "Comedy Covers: Mike & Dave's Book Club"
#1 is my personal fave 😂
Mike Day goes Gray and Throws glasses on; right in the middle of... Duh DuH DUH Dave's Commentary!
Thank you, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!!
Please do more of these discussions. Everything you guys do with Mike and Dave are absolute gold! Keep up the great work!
So happy to hear these voices!!!!!!! I always stay to the end
I love this. So worth while. Please keep doing these book breakdowns and summaries
Mikey and Di-Jon go off the reservation with the Paul brothers! I love it! Thank you very much!
”By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.“
Hebrews 11:3 LSB
2 Peter 3:5 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed *out of water and through water* by the word of God,
2Pe 3:5 [ESV]
Also, “not visible” still allows for alllll sorts of matter that is still extant. I can’t see molecules, individual photons, atoms, bacteria, viruses, or the vast majority of individual plant, animal, and human cells with my naked eye. Doesn’t mean they’re not there!
Even the Big Bang theory involves the super compression of material/element into an extremely small space (perhaps one not visible to a human eye?), plus an incredible amount of heat (not visible) that caused an explosion and expansion.
Also did you know that scientists recently converted photons into physical matter oike two years ago? Let there be light, indeed! (Still not “nothing” 🙃)
My comment appears to be hidden… anyway, 2 Peter 3:5 clearly states that the earth was “formed out of water and through the waters.”
Also,”not visible” still leaves the door wide open for allllllll sorts of things. For instance, particles, atoms, molecules, photons, and the vast majority of plant, animal, and human cells are all “invisible” to the naked eye, as are bacteria and viruses. And the theory of the Big Bang involves the super compression (perhaps into a practically invisible ball?) of materials plus intense heat.
Also, did you know scientists were able to convert (though I believe they said “create”) photons into matter like two years ago? Let there be light, indeed! (Still not nothing. And individual photons aren’t necessarily visible to the human eye.)
Another great episode. Some of the things you covered are the very things that I questioned about Protestantism before I found the restored church of Jesus Christ. I hope to see a lot more of these episodes. 😊