Most Mass Shooters Are Not Mentally Ill | Carmela Epright | TEDxGreenville
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- Опубликовано: 16 май 2024
- Carmela Epright is a bioethicist who advocates for resources for mental illness while dispelling myths about the profiles of mass shooters.
Carmela Epright is a Professor of Philosophy at Furman University and a Clinical Professor of Neuropsychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the University of South Carolina School of Medicine. She has served as a visiting scholar to the Medical University of South Carolina, The University of South Carolina Medical School’s Center for Bioethics and Medical Humanities and to the Institute for Applied Ethics at Dartmouth College.
Dr. Epright received her M.A. and Ph.D. degrees in philosophy and an M.A. in Applied Ethics from Loyola University, Chicago. In 2004 she was awarded the Alester G. Furman, Jr. and Janie Earle Furman Award for Meritorious Teaching at Furman University.
This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at ted.com/tedx
I feel like shes saying that calling somebody mentally ill or crazy is dismissive. As for a school shooter in this case, they label them mentally ill, and that's that. No care of the motive, no questions as to what or who might have led them to act out.
Search playlist 'Shooters common cause FATHERLESS' When all else fails for 20 years? let fathers raise their own children! Stop $Billions in SS Title IV-D anti-father incentives to judges, police...
well the popular alternative is to blame an inanimate object
@Matthew Manson How about the subset of non-mentally ill people who are violent? The majority of people who commit violent crimes in America do not have mental illnesses. Anyone can commit a murder. And mass shooters actually belong to their own label in the sociological world. Sociologists and psychologists are calling them "loners"- people who are anarchic, and incredibly angry at the world, and lack the feelings of empathy that should stop them from committing mass shootings. Now that I'm writing this out, it sounds more like a personality disorder (which isn't a mental illness fyi)
people who committed such crimes need severe punishment regardless of what led them to this .. with that said yes , in order to stop this from happening we need to search for the root cause being depression or other issues .. remember that being depressed doesnt give you the fuckin right to kill innocent people
i have alot of anger frustration and depression issues and i still understand that
nobody should have a green ticket to do such things period .
They had an expectation of how they felt they should have been treated by peers and they didn't get it, they were probably also depressed. People can be absolute assholes, kids included, the combination of depression and lack of support, a perceived hatred from peers built up over time until they broke. It's the little things that matter. Sometimes all someone needs is a smile and a friendly hello or just an acknowledgement of their existence that could redirect the path of destruction. No. 1 commandment, Love thy neighbour.
Abused kids:
I moved around all over the US. during my childhood because my father served in the military.
Most of the problems started because of the salvation army clothes from
the 60s that I wore to school, that was of great interest to the bullies.
The thing about bullies, is they always travel in groups. So when one starts on a kid then the
rest of the group starts in, and then the other students all seem to join in the attach. Before you know it,
the kid thinks the entire school is after him. Starting at the age of 6 the kid knows only fear and becomes
afraid of everyone, a loner.
The kid gets off the school bus and walks into his house, and is immediately grabbed by his hair and beaten
with a board or switch or whatever is handy by the parent. That is after his day at school
of getting kicked,punched,pushed,harassed, all the wonderful things kids do to terrorize a target student.
At home the parent seems to think the kid is putting drugs in her coffee. Strange the kid did not even know
what drugs were until the parent continually beat the kid for the implied infraction, until the kid admitted
doing so. My older sister at the age of 8 was the first to be beaten for drugs in the parents coffee.
Imagine my surprise when I walked in the front door after school to see my parent beating my sister like
she had killed someone.
Nothing but constant damage to the kids from the time they get up to the time they go to sleep.
This is what destroys kids, This is one reason kids bring guns to schools and shoot other kids.
This is why when kids are bullied we must stop it immediately! It is not the gun that causes the abused kid
to kill,
but the constant abuse that some kids face every day by the parents and kids at the school that send them
over the edge.
Also accountable are the adults that ignore and punish the kids that are under attach. I know myself I was
suspended many times from
school for getting into fights with bullies. When you are constantly attached by groups of students at some
point any kid would have enough and fight back. It is NOT
because bill found his dads gun and thinks it would be a great idea to shoot a bunch of other kids, but the
result of abused kids not getting the help they need to deal with situations like this.
School shootings will not stop until abused kids are listened to, and appropriate actions are taken.
Yes. And until that happens these killings are justified!
Yes, this kind of alienation must be a total agony leading to such desperate acts.
Platform
I hope you have a better life as you progress in your spiritual journey. And May God Almighty help you, bless you, and heal you as you allow yourself to forgive those ill people who harmed you.
As a person dealing with mental illness, I admit that I've had homicidal thoughts along with suicidal thoughts. There are many factors to take into account when it comes to becoming a mass shooter, but I believe that mental illness is critical to people to even think about killing others. Under the influence of mental illness, if you allow yourself, you can deteriorate as a person to the point that you lose the value of your own life. Eventually you might start blaming society for your problems and thus start developing homicidal thoughts/ideation to the point that you might start planning to kill others and in worst cases, go through with said plan. You don't just wake up one day and say "Yup, I'm going to kill people today". No, you slowly degrade mentally until the point at which you've either lost contact with reality or have a very distorted version of it. I'm speaking form personal experience. Mass killers use murder as a way to enact revenge on others (and to regain control in their life, because that's something that they lacked before the committed the act), because in their mind even innocent people have contributed to their misery. I.e. they blame people for being happy and for not talking to them or dating them (a toxic and distorted mindset).They kill them because they have a mindset like this "I want to kill myself but I won't let society win, so I'll take some people down with me"(This doesn't apply to all mass shooters, for example Nikolas Cruz didn't try to commit suicide and tried to run away, but I think it was more of an act out of fear and panic and he might be regretting not killing himself now, knowing what awaits him in prison.). Most people that commit mass murder are mentally ill, but most mentally ill aren't mass killers. I agree that there are some exceptions in which shooters are not mentally ill, but that's like a small fraction of most mass murderers.
Very insightful comment. Moreso than most. I don't get people always asking 'why? What was the motive? It makes no sense!'. Either they have never experienced an ounce of rejection, isolation, depression, anger or they don't care to admit it. In the wrong circumstances, these emotions could clearly wear a person down to the point where they no longer care about the social contract anymore. These unspoken rules we all follow as a given. If a person no longer feels like they belong to society or has any stake in it, then it becomes other to them and we know what humans are capable of doing and justifying in their mind when people become 'others' to them. History is full of examples. They see them as lower. They see themselves as righteous in their anger. They need something to show the world so it will listen and take notice. Shooters are often people who cannot or will not seek other means of help. If they did they would never reach that critical mass moment.
Of course this happens. Some people out there live the sort of messed up, isolated, depressing, broken lives the average person luckily never has to think about never mind deal with day to day. I'd be more surprised if humans could be put under extended emotional distress without hope of help and NOT (at least in a few cases) lash out. It figures. We aren't machines. Human beings have limits. Needs.
Neglect their needs, push them to their limits and behold, they will explode. Most people explode internally and destroy themselves with drink or drugs or violence and don't get much media coverage but they are everywhere. Some explode externally at the world and become a talking point for a week before everyone moves on and forgets. Until it happens again. Which it will. Because there are millions of us and it only takes one of those people who are lost and angry and hopeless to blow up at the world and we have another mass shooting incident.
@@kevtb874 That's why they heavily guard the nuclear warheads. Cuz they know there's those who'd just love to have the last laugh before causing human extinction. Elliot Rodger was one of em. Anyone who does go that far I will declare him the hero! Cuz he will have saved the miserable and the "happy" people would lose their fake lifestyles.
@@kevtb874 Another school shooting... That's why I do what I do... Because if the US is truly God's country... Then it's people like me... Who die inside a little bit more every damn day... Who will spend Their lives picking up Gods mess... And I'd love to do more to be honest... But things seem to keep getting in my way... And Whatever God allows me to do may be enough for him... But it will never be enough for me... Maybe if I can get lucky I can make a difference in someone's life before they even think picking up a gun is the answer... Because that's all it takes... The right person at the right moment... To be there... And listen... And comfort... A lost... Forgotten... Abused... neglected child... Because is far more wise to spend your time to save one child... Then it will ever be to mourn the deaths... And have to console... The family and friends... of 19
What is your proof that they were mentally ill? Any cited evidence or sources?
I’m
The public always want to emotionally cut themselves off of something extremely erratic. However, without facing the fact/truth, we keep seeing the same problems. Most of the shooters either cannot enter the society, or can superficially enter yet cannot establish true contacts/relationships, which either way is a ticking time-bomb to explode for self-destruction involving others.
This is incredibly true. This also points out how important it is to develop genuine friendships with someone. Anyone. When mentally ill. I keep thinking of Anyone by Demi Lovato. She is someone I deeply respect for her overcoming her drug addiction and other issues.
People with depression and anxiety are typically "not out of touch with reality" but the categories of diagnoses comprise the majority of mental illness.
Having problems with anger management is also a mental problem.
It's not what the mainstream sees as mental illness, but it's still part of mental health.
Sure. And I'd love to see this addressed -- it is actually one of my points in the talk. This is what we need to address.
anger is not a mental illness it's an emotion i don't even think you can compare the two
Many people feel anger and don't kill or hurt. We choose our actions
People don't seem to understand that mental illnesses are real, actual health conditions with a set of diagnosable symptoms (outlined in the DVSM). Feeling sad and hopeless without other symptoms is not depression. Being just plain moody is not bipolar disorder.
You can have unhealthy thoughts or mindsets without having an actual mental *Illness*. Look at it this way: some people can have diarrhea a lot without it being Crohn's or another diagnosable health condition.
People need to start realizing mental illnesses are actual, clearly defined conditions and that somebody being "crazy" does not mean they have a mental illness.
Carmela Epright It was determined post mortem that Eric Harris had a cluster b personality disorder. Specifically narcissistic personality disorder. He was a psychopath. I'm not sure why he was mentioned in this talk.
The gaping hole in this presentation is that it confuses insanity with mental illness. That confusion makes the whole presentation groundless.
they are often depressed, and that is an illness
Yet cave beastie quacks normalize victim blaming as a means to "resolve" such illnesses while failing to realize that they are pouring salt on a wound and making the person more violent on the inside.
No they're not. They're angry, and anarchists, and lack empathy for people. It's a personality disorder, not an illness.
@@natejohnson4465 Yeah you're right anarchy doesn't always equal violence. But i think it's safe to say that most anarchists are violent, considering that they are anti-government and in order to successfully overthrow a government violence has to be used. Unless you're just libertarian or conservative and want small government that leaves you alone. That's a different story.
That's an excuse.
eminemel E isn’t a personality desorder a mental Illness !?
Mental illness does not necessarily mean you are incapable of planning or problem solving.
This is why escapes from mental health facilities where the patients are involuntarily committed is a constant problem.
Many mental illnesses actually have the criteria of not being able to function in this way.
@@We.do.not.scissor Those are not the ones I was addressing.
@@davidgrover5996 I guess I have misinterpreted your comment in regards to the planning and problem solving, apologies.
@@We.do.not.scissor No problem.
There is a difference between addressing Mental ILLNESS and addressing Mental HEALTH.
"There are people who dont get what they deserve from society and from wemen and they have a mascot" I bet shes gonna say Pepe. Nailed it
Overly simplistic reasoning leading to overly simplistic conclusions.
No. She's spot on. You can't be too ill if you can plan out how to kill people.
@@Infamous1892 What are you talking about, only a mentally ill person would choose to spend the time to plan that out. Being mentally ill doesn't mean you cant function autonomously kind of offensive to mentally ill people.
@@DeletedDeleter you're confusing morality with illness.
At least we're trying here vs. blaming everything else but society.
Initially I thought she was merely focusing on the legal definition of “insane” or the criteria for determining if one is competent to stand trial(assist in his/her own defense). I kind of get her point. These shooters are full of rage, feel totally disassociated from society, and have nothing to lose. Check out the TED talk “I was almost a school shooter.”
Thank you for helping to define the real questions that underlie mass shootings
Mental illness is getting worse and worse and has so many different forms and manifestations. Our own government slaughtered 50,000 native Americans. It's spiritual cancer because of shunning God and goodness and truth. Our science isn't ready to solve this.
Brutal honesty! Thank you Carmela
I have only a mild degree of Bipolar Depression, PTSD/Social Anxieties, and ADD/ADHD with borderline intellectual functionality/general learning disabilities. People with mental illnesses are misunderstood, and they are not serious threat to society. I live in the country, not in most places where mass shootings occurred. The government government and organizations behind stero typing the mentally ill causes people to be discriminated and treated wrongly.
anxiety, depression,ptsd and schizophrenia are not the only mental illnesses. most if not all mass shooters have some form of ASPD
What is aspd?
@@sydniedesjarlais7917 antisocial personality disorder. Sociopathy, psychopathy.
What is your proof of that?
@@thatguywiththecoolusername6787 do you even need to ask that
@@izziethetortilla5547 Yes, yes I do. Everything needs evidence to back it up in order to prevent misinformation. Especially a topic such as this.
Mental illness does not equate to insanity... mass shooters can be mentally ill without being insane. I understand her point, but it was phrased poorly which defeats her purpose.
Sure. A mass shooter can be depressed, but not commit the mass shooting because of their depression. So why does it matter then if someone has mental illness? Why should we be afraid of people with mental illnesses if none of the mass shootings are committed because of mental illness? Sounds like we should be more afraid of anger and lack of empathy.
...What you do not want to be done to you, don`t do to anyone else...
do u eat meat
It actually hurts my heart for Sue Klebold, who spoke on this same platform (ted talks), that this woman (incredibly uneducated on the topic) has tried to deconstruct (is that the word? I can't place exactly what I'm trying to say) Dylan's mental health issues.
it seems like she doesnt consider depression to be a mental illness? nor psychopathy? like, I dont get what she DOES think is a mental illness. Maybe we are the mentally ill ones for trying to make sense of her blathering
@@MrJeebusWalks depression can be caused by a ton of reasons that are exogenous. DSM V did away with the bereavement exception. Largely they increased the number of symptoms in a lot things while lowering the diagnostic threshold. The panel in charge of the rewrite has significant conflicts of interest with pharmaceutical companies selling the medications they prescribe.
Incredibly uneducated! ? She's a bioethiicist! How many years of study and how many subjects do you need an expertise in do you think you need to become one of those? As much as I have a great deal of sympathy for Sue Klebold and as much as I think her son did indeed have a depressed mood I do not believe that it prevented him from knowing what he was doing that day. He was not psychotic. He was angry and he had guns.
nona nona read the book which includes journal entries from up to two years prior and decide for yourself, but Dylan was suicidal and Eric wanted to be remembered for it. Does that sound sane?
A much needed talk
I have spent 30 years in acute psychiatric units with individuals with chronically mentally ill, ( and I will tell you that the seriously mentally ill ( or drug addicted ) are violent when it provides them with what they want. ( the fact that criminal convictions are so low is the fact that most states that recognize the individual has a documented history of mental illness are not charged with the crimes they commit. instead they are sent to facilities like the ones I used to work at. ( for those of you out side the mental health field....Having a diagnosis of a serious mental illness is like getting a GET-OUT-OF-JAIL FREE CARD!!) so they have NO accountability for their behaviors And there is a lot of support for the line of thinking that mentally Ill are not violent ( in my experience almost 4 decades - 99% are very capable ? addicts as well ) and they are supports by Carmela Epright is a bioethicist provides clinical ethics and research ethics consultation, monitors patients' rights for accreditation and quality improvement purposes, provides clinical ethics. she is not a psychiatrist , psychologist or a neurologist, - so she can't assign a clinical opinion about the definition of weather some one is in fact mentally Ill. her field of study doesn't put her anywhere near the individuals that she wishes to profess her expertise on. most likely she has never spent a day on a psychiatric unit. But I am guessing that she runs a non profit that is funded to study problems in society and come up with politically ( WOKE ) solutions for a lot of money through government grants
We define corruption as the abuse of entrusted power for private gain. Corruption erodes trust, weakens democracy, hampers economic development and further exacerbates inequality, poverty, social division and the environmental crisis.
I think a lot of people are misunderstanding her point. Mental illness does not equal mental distress. She’s not saying that these violent people aren’t in distress, she’s saying that they should not be lumped in with a group of marginalized and stigmatized people who suffer abuse. Most mentally ill people are people with anxiety or depression who are too empathetic or too unhappy to do anything violent.
Anger is like a cancer. Something you can't get away from
Spiritual cancer
This reads like an indictment of our definition of mental illness.
To say that James Holmes was not mentally ill, already lets me know this lady does not know what she is talking about. I understand what she's trying to do. I understand that it is NOT because of their mental illness that these people committed these horrors. But they were ill and it did further concrete these murderous thoughts in their head. They needed treatment. Lots of these murders could have been avoided with treatment.
Or you just don't get it.
So you think someone like Bernie Madoff could have been helped with treatment??
Yeah treatment called "just give em whatever they want"?
Today I Learned, toxic masculinity and pepe the frog are to blame for mass shootings :)
If it isn't mental illness, then what is that feeling of despair and anger a shooter feels before they go off?
5:43 I thought she started singing.
Bro same
same
Lmao. would have actually been great as a teaching tool at that point in time.
I’m not sure how to think about this presentation. So, no thumbs up or thumbs down.
IT DOESN'T MATTER **WHAT** YOU CALL IT. It isn't what most people do. If it was "normal" we would all be doing it, and no one would think anything of it. What the courts have ACTUALLY tried to do is say "nope, sorry, being nuts doesn't get anyone off the hook" and I for one am very glad they have taken this approach. Call the mass shooters whatever you want, what they actually DO is about as crazy as it gets.
This is an attempt to blame shift away so everyone else that is normal is responsible but it doesn't address the solution. Either way, im with you. Call a spade a spade I say. Illness is a broad term and it means not normal to some degree.
Antidepressants can lower testosterone wich leads to compulsive violent behavior. Many of these young men were socially rejected. And Antidepressants did not fix many of these men.
So she doesn’t think that there has to be something wrong in a person’s mind to be able to commit mass murder?
Isn’t that kind of anger, resentment, and entitlement a form of mental illness?
To answer your question--No. Anger, resentment and entitlement are emotions. Not mental health diagnosis. And no, nothing has to be wrong with someone’s mind to commit mass murder.
At first I agreed with her, but after she said criminal illness, I stopped listening! She honestly sounds like she doesn't know what she's talking about!
Just because someone is mentally ill doesn’t mean they get let off the hook. Its a reason why it happened its not an excuse. I don’t believe i agree with the concept that mass shooters are not struggling with mental illness. Mental illness can be alleviated or changed or healed with the right tools.
Thank God for you I love you!
This will not be popular because no one wants to realize the solid division between us and "them" is not really there. This is all about the choices we make. Some of them done in our head. A bad choice (or a trail of them) is not a mental illness. Preventing bad choices means personal growth and that's hard. We don't really think about who will be affected by those bad choices. But sometimes it can be obvious, especially on the outside. It's interesting because I used to read heavily about serial killers and other murderers as part of my masters in Forensic Psychology but the most chilling thing I read was not what they have done or thought, it is that what they have done and thought is so similar to everyone else.
Thank you, this was exactly one of my central points. Thanks for getting it.
Carmela - I went and looked up the definition of a mental illness:
A mental disorder, also called a mental illness or psychiatric disorder, is a behavioral or mental pattern that causes significant distress, or impairment of personal functioning.
Now, I understand if you believe that most mass shooters suffer no impairment of personal functioning, but I'm not sure how you can determine that they were not significantly distressed.
Secondly most mass murders are exotic suicides. The gunmen make no attempt, or plan, to survive. They often leave suicide notes. Surely any action to end your own life, is an impairment of personal functioning, because it is a behavior that is contrary to your well-being and detrimental to your survival?
But I think you underestimate the amount of male mental illness that exists. I can tell you that almost all men who are long-term unemployed and/or long-term celibate, are mentally ill, and are violent, or prone to violent anger and/or suicide.
Psychologists are also starting to consider the long term PTSD type effects of circumcision and the release of chemicals in the fragile brains of babies a few days old caused by pain, blood-loss and trauma.
I think the prevalence of mental illness in males in our society is extreme, and your talk contributes to society's complete indifference to it.
I think your talk here is actually a bad thing, you are a bad person, your professed motive for the talk is not believable to me.
Michelle Young actually there more woman are by mass more affected by mental illness. But not a lot of woman are shooters ....
+Michelle Young So basically all men in the world are mentally ill, at least according to your definition. No, we're not. Turns out most of women have true inability to see through the mind of a spree killer. Feelings of aggression and resentment, in these cases, are complete understatements. They're off the record. In a state such as ones mentioned above, it's no longer a personal choice; it's a process of undermined role in society that has irreversibly gone wrong at some point. Additionally, this has something to do with feminism and its role in emasculating young boys on one hand and the role expectations of a man on the other.
You were right about this not being popular
Here after the Virginia Beach mass shootings 31st Mai 2019...RIP 12 victims !
Very interesting perspective.
Give the boys something to do so they don’t go crazy from isolation
No teach them that its okay to cry and to say they are hurt or upset. A lot of young women mightve had worse experiences than them, but thwy dont feel the need to kill people to get rEvEnGe.
@@ykMMD most of them try to seek help, but people just bully them and call them pussies for expressing 'weakness'
@@ykMMD this maybe and biology who knows ?
@@sophon238 yup and until that changes people deserve to die.
Get them laid more often. That might be helpful.
Excellent presentation on an important subject. Thank you. 💜Love your speaking style, btw.
It would be useful to explain the link between heavy drug consumption and alcohol use that may exacerbate already depressed minds in young people who have severely violent proclivities. Perhaps even those that kill animals and torture children early on should be placed on a watchlist instead of what bigoted individuals do to different populations and creeds.
Infamy and realizing their failures at life is the answer to her closing question.
They are treated bad, never treat anyone bad
Clear and compelling, as always!
Really? Lol
You sure?
Since you say that I'm sure she doesn't point out shat I'm here for. Almost all modern mass shooters are raised by a single mother. Thanks for the heads up
the beginning was strong, but she doesnt understand that any group using pepe as their mascot isnt a real group
trols are group
lol the protestors in hong kong use pepe as a symbol of protest, it's now a global symbol of freedom and resistance to oppresion from authoritarian goverments and policies and you hate that fact.
Except they are a real group, because these mass shooters belonged to it.
I have several mental problems but I would never kill anyone.
So you think these horrible people are perfectly sane?
I think not. These shooters have problems. And a lot of them
Of course they do, but what she is saying here is 'don't just say theyre crazy we cant do anything about it'.
Clearly some young males have a big problem with how they are adressing their feelings. When girls are sad or upset, they usually cry or self harm or whatever, they don't feel the need to pick up a gun and get rEvEnGe.
I agree that mental "illness" is not the problem per se, but mental health is ... a mentally healthy person -- someone who feels like they are worth something, who is part of their community, who has coping mechanisms in place to deal with stress, who has a circle of support that is healthy -- I do not think would do something like this.
I think you can have a mental illness but still be otherwise mentally healthy in the right circumstances
Toxic masculinity hurts men in so many ways. This is one of them.
Please elaborate. Im a bit dense
Dismissing and defending. Whatever you say lady! SMDH!!!!
They just let anyone up there, huh?
I kind of disagree with her points.
The part I do agree with is that it isn't good to judge all mentally ill people and see them as "potential mass shooters". As many people have said, mentally disabled people, such as people with downs syndrome, aspergers, etc, can actually be very wonderful people.... better than most. They can be incredibly kind, sweet, and in particular, non-violent.
Where I partially disagree is that, while it may not be a "mental illness" (which is where she's right), but it is clear as crystal that there is some sort of non-physical illness that they have. What I find *extremely* disappointing is that very very very few people are addressing *emotional* illness, but only talking about mental illness.
This is what I think the true link to this "epidemic" is: we are simply not treating emotional disorders and misdiagnosing it as "mental disorders". It'd be like the same as saying "Oh, you have cancer? Here... let me give you Advil so you don't get a headache". The reason why these are becoming so frequently is because we are letting far far far too numerous emotional disorders go without any sort of treatment, or the right kind of treatment.
I've talked to several people who have been treated for "mental illness", and all the drugs and treatment that they're given doesn't work. Even for many of the drugs themselves, some say that they side effect is "thoughts of suicide". What? What good is a drug that one of the side effects is suicide? We're completely misdiagnosing the problem, because "mental illness" is now becoming the "buzzword" in the medical field and media. Most of these shooters and homicidal people aren't suffering from a mental illness... as she was saying... but where she's wrong, along with many others, is that they're suffering from an emotional illness, and that is what we need to address if we want the bleeding to stop.
This absurd amount of violence will continue the more we ignore treating emotional trauma and illness and mislabeling it as a "mental disorder".
Shootings like this have been going on for 20 years now, and I'm really disappointed that we still haven't even begun to address the real issues that are going on with our society and with these people.
J. A. Greene mental illness is emotional illness lol, mental illness is all about pharmacutical profiteering.mental health is about selling drugs and mentally controlling and manipulating the masses.
Mental health is also used as a means of intelligence gathering as well.
This doesn’t make sense. “Emotional illness” is not a thing. What do you suggest we do to remedy the problem? You did not even mention therapy. So are you arguing a schizophrenic just needs to “talk it out” ?
@@LesAnderson tbh you're not making much sense either.
Emotional illness/health is under the umbrella of mental illness.
i agree that mental illness and psychotic disorders aren't to blame for this kind of violence for the most part. wow, she opened me up on this new perspective of how we are blaming the wrong things and how we perceive certain correlations on this! but the shooters def could have used some sort of counseling or mental health help because of whatever is motivating them to commit such atrocities must not be good for anyone. but i think most shooters know what they are doing, if only their hearts were turned around and made whole, they could truly see their wrongdoing :(
Of course they know what they are doing. They do it as a final FU to society and they want it to go viral so everyone will know.
How many different kinds of mental illness are there? Certainly many many kinds.
Mental illness doesn't have to mean insanity
More people who don't understand Pepe, great. This is stupid.
Reeeeeeeee
I was with her until she brought up Pepe. Then I realized she has no idea what she's talking about.
she might be right on others but incels weren even welcome on 4chan
You're wrong. She's the only one who's actually right.
What makes you normal, sane person?
If people can take the time to meticulously plan out killing a group of people for a year without remorse and to think they deserve it is criminal and is not a mental issue.
While some have health issues not all of them. It just absolves accountability to label them all as mentally ill. Some people act on violent thoughts.
Courts should not use the medical definition of «insanity» or «mental illness». The medical definition is too narrow and unimaginative.
McNaghten was the right test to apply
Guys, the message was not as simple as the title of the talk (which was meant to cause shock and make people watch the video). The message was to stop blaming mental illness for mass shootings. By labeling all mass shooters as mentally ill, we deepen the stigma surrounding mental illness, doing a disservice to those with mental illnesses (like myself). People use mental illness to distract from discussing gun violence and simple steps that can be taken to limit it. Our discussions go from gun violence to mental illness to the broken medical system and never return to gun violence. We need to have the ability to separate one from the other.
Shes right about these kids not being mentally ill but when a large amount of very terrible things happens such as bullying abuse and much worse and then it keeps goinf on for years and years ot causes brain damage.
Therefore that kid cannot and should not be held responsible.
I'm autistic and I've seen a few jokes like "don't give them a gun". To be fair, you don't need to have a mental ilness, anyone can live in their own world (created by those around them) which changes their view of reality. Also, some people are more or less likely to hurt others. Some are more prone to ending their life instead. In my country mass shooters are extremely rare because we regulate the weapons and there's a really good hotline for those who seek help.
I've recently seen the musical Heathers and it's really focused on the topic of : "Should you sympathise with a murderer? Do they deserve death?" and I talked about it with some people I know. Generally everyone agreed that there is something wrong with murderers and they should be killed. I don't think it's that simple. While the person is not responsible for the people who influence them, they are responsible for letting themselves get influenced (if your parent abuses you, it's still your choice whether you let them hurt you or do something) and it's their choice whether they will commit crime or not.
But Eric was a sadistic psychopath?
H No lol tf it is,specifically its called aspd,a mental illness.
@@kartikaymisra4109 technically, mental health professionals don't consider that a mental illness but they definitely are mentally disturbed.
Eric was a psychopath, and Dylan was severely depressed and suicidal. Both monsters for doing what they did, but Eric should have been stopped sooner and Dylan needed help earlier. Dylan probably got to a point of numbness and anger that was so bad he was okay with doing what he did, and his friend Eric was ridiculously angry, enabling their self destructive and homicidal behaviors. They’re monsters.
I cant believe she took anything serious from 4chan xD
I can, she used the same diligence to research 4chan as she did mental illness! Everything she said is false!
@@gabrielincognito8855 I find it funny that these people don't take anything serious from 4chan but they don't find it odd that goverments and tech companies desperately try to censor and hide them from the general public.
When is the world finally going to study priscribed and or abused priscribed medications to answer the following question: In criminal cases of violence was the suspect consuming priscribed medications x amount of time before the crime and if so what medications where consumed. Than make the results of the study fully public.
Me scrolling through the comments:
Wait why is everyone criticising her? Didn't you guys watch the video?
oh, brother.
James Huberty called a mental clinic on July 17, 1984, He was brushed off by the operator. I don't really know what her point is?
Despite some of the criticisms of the speaker that I’ve read prior to my post, I think she hits the nail right on the head with her closing statement “why would a sane person commit such an act”. What I believe she is getting at is IMO “what are the cracks in our society that someone may fall thru and potentially commit such an act, be it unhealthy upbringing, lack of social safety nets, pressures of society, lack of healthy forms of anger management, or possible side effects of depression meds, etc?” I’m no expert but I’m always open to someone’s opinion and counter argument and I applaud her talk. Possibly her argument is that 90 % of these mass shooters were not mentally ill and were thought to be normal until something made them snap, or they had some flaw. In addition to the problem with gun proliferation in the USA via 2A (which is crazy to me-let’s make sure everybody has a right to bear arms- despite that some may be unstable, or are normal one day, yet may snap). She closes mentioning political and social reforms, do other countries that don’t have such high rate gun violence problems maybe have some other social norms that may prevent this? I think one thing we do need to do in this country is possibly have class in school for all children, I dunno, maybe 6 th grade ?, to discuss the dangers of guns, and their implications in society.
If the native Americans were armed there would have been tens of thousands of them NOT mass murdered by our government. That's why we stay armed. Read history and don't blame rights for the acts of individuals. Because you have to ask yourself... could you murder all those native Americans just to disarm them? Would you? Or would you support our rights to bear arms and defend ourselves? Changes the perspective doesn't it?
So depression, antisocial personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, bi polar disorder aren’t mental illnesses anymore? Because most of these shooters have at least one of these
No, most of these shooters don’t have these. Where are you getting this information?
Published on Sep 23, 2013Medication Madness: The Role of Psychiatric Drugs in Cases of Violence, Suicide and Crime.
Today is 4-20-2019 the 20th "anniversary" of Columbine mass tragedy. Just 2 days ago, 18 year old female Sol Pais was found dead near a campground not far from Columbine. Sol had just flown from Florida to Colorado, purchased a shotgun, and then Lockdowns at many Colorado schools were done while police & FBI searched Colorado for Sol... because her internet blog was full of obsession over the 1999 Columbine tragedy, and a song by Marilyn Manson "Nobodies" which was about the Columbine shooters.
Sol apparently shot herself Dead with the shotgun she had bought.
Back in 1984 I lost a friend and others in the San Ysidro, Calif "McDonalds Massacre"
The gunman James Oliver Huberty was a middle-aged transplant from Ohio took his guns to go "hunting humans" he told his wife, he then slaughtered 21 people at the nearby McDonalds, then SWAT killed Huberty.
I arrived right when Huberty's madness was ended, police rushed to triage victims, I would find out later my friend Victor was inside the shattered McDonald's, shot dead by Huberty.
The Columbine shooting though seems to have created a following...
The problems with Bullying at schools with youth still maturing and learning life's lessons does not rule out the young males in early stages of progressing to the 41 year old Huberty's condition.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend. I was an eleven-year old New Jersey boy at the time of the 1984 San Ysidro McDonald's Massacre and remember being quite anxious for a couple of years afterwards each time I would walk into a fast food restaurant. Though I lived 2,000 miles away from San Ysidro, and it was now 1986, it was STILL pervading my thoughts. Imagine the PTSD symptoms of those poor souls INSIDE that McDonald's who somehow managed to survive that massacre!!
Why would a sane person commit such an act
Maybe they had UNDIAGNOSED mental illnesses? At least some of them. As someone who has Bipolar Disorder Type I, which is the worst type, I strongly feel this is the case, at least with some of them.
Yes!
I’m all for eradicating the societal stigma against mental health conditions but this woman’s assessment is incorrect. I see her point, that most mentally ill people are not violent and that condition alone won’t cause someone to become a mass shooter, however most mass shooters are clinically ill. They may not be psychotic but most have some form of mental illness that is not being treated properly. Mental health afflictions are fairly common and that alone won’t lead someone to become a mass shooter-that’s what she should be saying.
Unrelated but why is the background the Try Guys
I found this video trying to learn what kind of mental illnesses are causing these acts of violence. This was very eye opening. I will be sharing it with other Republican family members and friends.
We need to have a bipartisan or apolitical/non-governmental long term research to get down to the bottom of this.
That being said, much of what she said is speculation and not science.
She says only 5 percent of ALL violent crimes are committed by a mentally ill individuals. She then goes on to say that mass shooters are mentally ill. Ppl who assume that they are mentally ill may in fact be correct. It is entirely possible that the typical violence (bar fights, gang violence, riots...) is committed almost entirely by range ppl while the few mass shooting that do occur are committed only by that 5 percent of violent mentally ill ppl.
So there really isn't any evidence supporting or challenging the assumption that mass shooters are mentally ill - WE NEED SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH.
It should also be noted that pretty much every shooter is a male despite there being a very large number of female gun owners. These men are often between the ages of 15 and 35.
(Maybe testosterone is playing a role here).
Additionally while guns have constantly gotten harder to procure over the last few decades, mass shootings are continuing to rise.
It should also be noted that overall gun violence is only one third homicides - the remaining 2/3 of that number is actually suicide. This is a liberal trick. They talk about gun violence hoping you understand that to mean CRIMES committed with guns.
Also, while mass shooting are on the rise, overall gun violence is been declining steadily for decades.
These are all important trends that through SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH we can hopefully get to the root of these increasingly frequent tragedies.
Depression itself doesn't cause violence. Ssri does.
I believed her until she said Pepe the frog
I feel bad about Pepe, too. This was never his intended purpose, the artist who drew him thought of Pepe as a "chill guy." It's not my fault that the beta rebellion stole Pepe. I wish they hadn't.
@@ArticulateVelociraptor Oh my god I love you that was great. I feel like the only person on this comment thread with common sense and knowledge of psychology besides you. Your ted talk was legendary.
@@ArticulateVelociraptor Praise KeK
Free pepe!
You are a great speaker ma'am. Bless you.
This woman is just an apologist. I'm listening to her, naming one deranged killer after the next and saying "he's not mentally ill, and he's not mentally ill, and he's not mentally ill..."
Yes, he is. Yes, they are. Persistent violent ideations leading to murderous rampages are by definition mental illness. The person is psychotic, if not psychopathic. If a psychopath, then they were never sane; if psychotic, they're suffering a mental breakdown. Which is mental illess.
As others have said, she's redefining mental illness out of existence. Automatism, which is to say "not being in control of your actions" is not a component of the definition of mental illness. Legally, it's a whole different defence, shes conflating the two.
She's just wrong on multiple points: Yes, people who kill their own kids *are* mentally ill. Of course they are. Many of these mass shooters *do* have hallucinations and delusions. At the very least, they are hallucinating themselves as an action hero, and delusionally thinking their actions are righteous. The Columbine shooters were insane, they had gone mad, they'd snapped. That they did it calmly, that many shooters write seemingly calmly about their intentions or actions, does not equate to them being sane.
She literally closes by asking why sane people would commit mass murder. They wouldn't, simple as. Any situation where it's even an option is itself insane. The implication she's making is that these mass killers have a point. She's suggesting there are rational grounds to walk into a school and mow down a bunch of kids.
She's just wrong, and possibly insane. I'm wondering why TED gave her a platform.
Exactly.
By your logic most politicians and executives are insane.
Yes, James Holmes was clearly not insane....
She said they weren’t out of touch with reality. Some mental diagnosis have nothing to do with delusions.
the man has a y chromosome, this leans the man into a state of possible heightened anger or irritation. add onto that adhd, autism, anger problems, and stress / bullying you set up the perfect place for a mental break. mental break : not meaning psychosis but rather an empathetic break where you do not feel for others or even yourself, you stop caring about everything and everyone - with little to no signs of delusion, many of the young men who committed mass shootings seemed to either be neglected, abused / seen the abuse of a loved one, or were off of prescription medication at the time. i have bipolar disorder and adhd combined they are terrible, untreated they could kill. i used to be neglected by most of my family, and i hated everyone and everything around me at all times, i would snap at the smallest and stupidest of things and say rude or blunt things to my friends without realizing that the things i said hurt people. i know what it was like to be that impulsive and i know what it’s like to wish everyone around you was dead, i considered for a period of 7 months weather or not to bring a gun, that my uncle illegally purchased, to school, i knew where the unlocked gun was, i knew where the amo was, i knew that if i wanted i could change everything, and i would have killed my uncle first in his bed asleep. i planed every detail and every expression of hatred or hope i could i could falsely give, but me and my mother moved away before that could happen and i haven’t told her yet even after three years after we moved. my illnesses went unchecked throughout those seven months, i had literally one friend and spoke to no one else. even my old friend told me that they thought i was distant and cold, mental illness plays a big role in these types of things. the only reason i didn’t end up doing what i had planned was because we moved out before that could happen, i even had a date and time, when and where. i look back at those memories and i don’t feel anything, i don’t feel pain, happiness, or sadness, i was truly numb at that point and it’s frightening even for me to look back now and feel absolutely nothing in those memories. walking down the hallway, seeing a kid get beat up and shoved in a locker, watching a kid purposefully puking in the school bathroom and i don’t feel a single emotion or slight tinge of regret for not doing anything, i don’t feel anything in those memories. you can never understand that until you’ve lived it because no normal human being feels absolutely nothing not even frustration or worry when someone who should be your friend cuts themselves or when someone comments on your clothing, you shouldn’t be so unphased by everything, so much so that you consider killing a cat of all things that trusts you and loves you. i did all of that, and even today looking back on my considerations of toying with someone’s life just to feel something, i still can’t feel guilty for what i thought and what i almost did. i’m being treated for my ailments now and it’s been three years since that time in my life but as a first person point of view here i can definitely tell you that i was NOT sane at that time. i was bored, unable to feel remorse, and impulsive, all things that can come as a combined reaction to adhd, neglect, bullying, and traumatic stress / brain injuries. all of these things contribute to the mental health of a person and should be taken seriously by any court of law or medical professional.
probably late to this party but there really should be more conversation here.
From your writing I can say you are surely a smart person. Love yourself you are more than abused neglected kid, you can xhange your life and can help others by telling your story. Never give up buddy.
Thank you for sharing and providing perspective. Its brave and wise, and I respect you for that. Did the cat survive?
@@bradfordskelley - The cat was good. I didn’t do anything to him and I remember now how much he actually helped me get through all that. Things are definitely better now and I can process and understand my own emotions again. I’m very happy now and glad I decided against destructive behavior and got myself some help. I have another cat named buddy and he’s an absolute monster. I love him and i’d never ever consider hurting him ever. (small edit: The cat of this story unfortunately passed away two years ago but he was a very happy/ chill guy)
Why is she smiling like Martin Shkreli the whole time?
Meanwhile in Maine this aged well
I have ADHD, PTSD, anxiety, and depression and I would never be a mass shooter and I still find it highly unlikely that most mass shooters don’t have any of those, or ASPD, NPD, BPD, etc. Most definitely aren’t experiencing psychosis, but they’re likely still mentally ill in some way. Still an interesting talk.
NPD and BPD (and possibly ASPD) are so under-diagnosed. We literally just had a President with NPD. I think a focus on narcissism is very very important. I bet a lot of these incels and MGTOW have undiagnosed NPD.
Literally all of them have depression
When she said masculinity, this video changed from serious into joke. But then i saw Pepe...
I knoticed that the 4 colors behind her represent the 4 chaos gods of 40k. But in all seriousness this video was helpful in understanding what kind of people mass shooters are.
The only thing I agree with is that we should not blame people for having mental illness because it would be like blaming people for having a disease such as cancer.
How refreshing an actual intelligent person!
You must have watched a different video.
Oh God the self proclaimed "psychologists" have entered the comment section
This doesn't prove that mass shooters aren't mentally ill.
It proves that lawyers and doctors need to fix their definitions.
I didn't watch the whole video, maybe like only one minute. She already irritated me with the introduction. Some people are commenting about Eric and Dylan. I feel that Eric was the one with the strong mental issues. Eric was the main strategiest and Dylan was like the follower. When stusents whom were present during the shooting, they repeatedly said "the shooter/ gunman" implying that one of the boys did all the work. Dylan was quoted as barely using his gun during the attack. He did not like the full thought of the situation but Eric repeatedly coaxed him into it and reassured him. Eric was the main shooter and planner for entire situation.
What's so interesting is how the courts will keep ordering a reevaluation every 3-4 months of incarcerated spree-shooters until they can be deemed competent enough to stand trial in the U.S. not taking in account their state-of-mind at the time of the crime. [Just sayin...]
*I would also note the widely overlooked number of female mass-shooters from Brenda Spencer, Laurie Dann, Jennifer SanMarco, Latina Williams, Amy Bishop, Amanda Miller [duo w/ Jared], Tashfeen Malik [duo w/ Rizwan & Nasim Najafi Aghdam to name a few...
This is hands down the worst Ted talk I have ever seen. The speaker is so ill informed I am embarrassed for her. "Criminal Insanity" is not a medical designation. This was invented by the court system. It is based on the actions of someone who was most likely schizophrenic, so in his paranoia he shot someone due to a perceived threat that was an illusion. Medically, not all mental illness is schizophrenia! And in fact, the court system is solo far behind wrt recognizing mental illnesses and their contribution to current and likely future crimes, that basing a talk on whether a group is mentally ill based on a legal definition is ludicrous.
This is entirely incomprehensible. The definition of mental illness has literally nothing whatsoever to do with schizophrenia. The definition, as stated in the talk is: "did the person know that the act was wrong at the time that it was committed?" Do you REALLY want to suggest that these shooters don't know that the acts that they are doing are wrong? Seriously? The knew exactly what they were doing. That is the point. And so ill-informed is laughable. Look up the references. You are right that criminal insanity is not a medical designation -- we don't use "insanity" in a medical context, but that is irrelevant to the point being made here, which is about ability to act autonomously and choose to do something terrible. And by the way, exactly what medical definition (as opposed to the legal definition) of mental illness do such shooters fall under? Sure, some might be depressed, but so what, lots of people are depressed and being so is irrelevant to whether or not they commit a crime. The aren't even all psychopaths (some were, there is pretty good evidence that Eric Harris was), but so what? Personality disorders are not relevant to the commission of crimes. So, no matter how you slice it up, unless they had no idea that what they were doing was wrong (generally because of some psychological disorder, of which schizophrenia is ONE possibility), they are free and autonomous agents who could have decided to act otherwise.
+Carmela Epright "this is entirely incomprehensible" then you proceed to spit out a bunch of word vomit
"Word vomit." Was the comment that difficult for you to understand?
Carmela Epright can say oranges are the same as apple Bernie Madolf .. one is greed for money the other can be mental problem maybe deep pain and anger.. wow what is suicidal isn’t that violent but to him or herself it’s still violence.
I don't agree with all your points, but I agree the criminal classification for legally insane doesn't really have anything to do with the argument. I'm a psychology/criminal justice major/minor and this really belongs in a criminal justice discussion.
Some of her points were correct (like a majority of violent crimes are not committed by the mentally ill and that mentally I'll people are far more likely to be a victim of a violent crime than a perpetrator), but she did not do a good job of arguing the case.
If I ask you, what makes you normal, sane person, could you describe, tell it in one, short sentence?
Considering the shootings, can you tolerate injustice towards you knowing that you have or can get the fully loaded, semi auto rifle at your disposal in almost every moment of a day?
Omg!
I just came across this my accident!
Interesting!
So mass shooters have no mental illness?
Who cares?
One of shooters said it’s was planned and why !?!
Cuz he/ the shooters where picked on for years!!!!!!!
Finally broke!
I’m a 47 year old female who lives in Australia!
If I had access to a gun in my teens, I guarantee you I would have been the first mass shooting let alone first mass shooting in Australia in 1988/ 1999.
I’m not saying it’s ok what happened!
I’m saying change the bullying rules!
And we never know what’s going on at home in other people’s lives!
What about psychotropic drugs?
Do you think it could be cyber boiling accusations and individuals don't discuss those accusations because they are afraid to be labeled what
They had us in the first half not gonna lie
i strongly disagree with you