Is There a Crisis in the LDS Church? Feminism. Race. Sexuality.
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- What are the biggest challenges facing the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today? Why are so many young Mormons leaving their faith, how is the church responding, and what does this mean for larger questions of faith and culture asked by adherents of other faiths?
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Thank you for this interview! As a former Mormon, reading the Bible for the first time, (without leaning on Joseph Smiths translation) it became very clear to me the untruths of the religion. This is my prayer and encouragement for all, read God’s Word,THE BIBLE. He will lead you to truth, Jesus Christ.
Amen! Praying always for my wife her family and part of mine will come to know the REAL Jesus Christ
I did the same thing over the last year! I discovered the true Jesus, not Mormon Jesus!
@@Jesusisking58 pssst... Don't tell anyone, but it's the same Jesus.
You're a "former Mormon", so I'm sure you remember the 8th Article of Faith, right? But how familiar are you with the history of the Bible and Christianity in general; namely the period after the apostles died? Round about 325 AD, and on for a millennium, or so.
Amen. The Bible is the Word of GOD.❤
My 5th great grandfather was a Mormon “prophet.” I can tell you that LDS is structured largely on the rituals and teachings of Freemasonry.
What’s wrong with Freemasonry? All of our founding fathers were Masons who gave us our freedoms. You must believe in God to be a mason, it’s just a fraternal order. Maybe you’re thinking of the Illuminati?
Mormon theology....drumming up old memories. I spent ages 15 through 22 as a Mormon. Didn't serve a Mormon mission however, because I was too honest. I was in sexual sin, pornography, which disqualified me from being Temple worthy, and thus disqualified me from serving a Mormon mission. I was absolutely devastated. I got the impression, from as many young men I knew who served a Mormon mission, that I should have lied, that I was practically encouraged to lie about my sin, in order to serve the Mormon Church, and the Mormon God. I was broken up about it for years, that I had been honest about my sin, and because of my honesty, I was deprived of being able to serve God. However, it was a blessing in disguise. I served in the military instead, and met someone while in the service, only in passing really, who recommended a book about the true history of Joseph Smith. Which led me away from Mormonism, and into a non-denom church, where I was shared the true, biblical gospel and was subsequently saved. That was about 2 decades ago now. I don't know who that kid is/was who recommended the book, but I hope I get to see him in Heaven so I can thank him for planting the seeds that led me away from falsehood, and allowed me an opportunity to be open to truth. All glory to God above all things, but I'd like to thank that fella for his contribution to God's work.
I have been pondering how to respond to this video for a week now.
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saint's.
Since as long as I can remember (four decades now) I have been taught in this Church that Christ died for my sins and nothing that I can do will save me absent his Great Sacrifice.
I know he is my Savior.
I know that he is my God
I also know he is my King.
As my King he requires my obedience.
Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
My Granma was a good Baptist. I went to church with her as a kid when I would visit in the summer. I loved vacation Bible School.
I didn't learn anything there that was a surprise. I've read all the scriptures that you will try to beat me over the head with to convince me your interpretation is correct.
I do not think they mean what you think they mean.
You are still my brothers and sisters in Christ.
The Last Days are here and it is no time to be playing silly buggers debating the nature of the unity of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit when there are churches that are disintegrating over simple chastity.
May the Lord Jesus Christ, born of Mary, crucified under Pilate, raised to sit on the throne of Heaven as King, who will come again to Judge the world, bless all who read this with his love and Power.
.
@Joseph
❤❤❤❤
Amen!
Well said. Now is the time lamp oil is running out. You clearly brought extra.
Joseph,
Someone taught you well. Someone taught you differently than l was taught.
I am saddened that you think that our intent here is to bash you all over the head.
It isn't. ❤ The intention is to warn you in love.
I do wonder how you missed the heresies that were bread and butter to my generation. I wonder what you will be held accountable for
by participating in an organization that still follows after another Christ and Father. I wonder these same questions re: my family. They are so beautiful.
Please , just do yourself this favor and make sure that the King Follett Discourse Jesus and Father ( which are used in the Temple endowment) are the same Gods in your understanding as the GOD of the Bible ; ( compare Isaiah 43.10, 44.6, 45.5, John 1.1 to Smith's words) otherwise your gods will be of no use to you.
Peace.
Deuturonomy 13.2-3
@@inChristalone1960 I just listened to the words of the Sacrament hymns and the testimonies of the General Authorities. And Yes I worship the God and His Christ that are described in the Bible.
I am in the process of witnessing to two Mormon missionaries who visited my home. They are coming back tonight at 7 for the third lesson and I have been preparing through prayer and careful study of the Gospel to offer them a clear explanation of the free gift of grace through faith in Christ. It is therefore quite serendipitous to have this video premiere today and I will be watching eagerly.Thank you for your efforts, Dr. McDowell.
Are you aware of Melissa Dougherty’s channel? She may also have some material that would help you prepare for the conversation in terms of what the missionaries might say and what their understanding is 😊
See how Ray Comfort (Living Waters Ministry) with his new dog Lucy witnesses to Mormons: on RUclips...RnMT
Hope it goes well!
@@rebekahearly1144 Thank you, sincerely, for the recommendation! I searched for her channel and the first video I found was an interview with Eric Johnson, breaking down Mormon doctrine. I genuinely appreciate it.
Jesus…enable Joshua to be a good listener, equip him with YOUR wisdom & discernment🇨🇦
The Church you belong to (whatever that is) does not prevent or limit you from being saved by Jesus Christ. Christ is bigger than any church, he is working through all churches to accomplish his goals. He is working through all people that serve His ends. Jesus Christ will come again and rule for 1000 years. Worthy Mormons will be a part of that just as worthy people from all sects of Christianity and whomever else he judges to be worthy for the first resurrection.
Also, it is interesting to note that the Living Prophet tells the church to follow Jesus Christ. Its not as if they are being told to do things that are crazy or outside of scripture. It is nice to have counsel for current events to interrupt scripture.
As a Active LDS member I will say Eric is well versed in fringe cultural teaching that have been left behind by old leaders. The church is set up to have an open cannon. Sometimes people say things (Such as Brigham Young) that were NOT canonized, and yet those are the things so desperately clung to by those seeking to defame the church. Such as multiple heavenly mothers as Eric goes on about. Pure speculation on his part. Surely you can find someone who said that, but that was also speculation and not cannon.
It's hard to listen to someone literally get everything wrong. The ex members love to sew discord among themselves and the church by holding onto false teachings they think are cannon but are not. The LDS cannon is very much open. We believe in scripture. The doctrine of Christ is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, baptism and repentance. That is what the Book of Mormon teaches, that is what the Bible teaches. The Doctrine and Covenants teaches us how to set up and run the church. The Pearl of Great Price tells us Gods Plan for mankind. The canon is open because all has not be revealed. THere is always more to know. We are here for spiritual Progress. We are Gods children.
Its confusing, as so much has been said by members who over time have their own folklore, but it isn't doctrine. If you are a Truth seeker you will dig deeper than the superficial statements made. We seek to follow Jesus Christ. That is the bottom line. To become more Christlike. To be born again.
You could not be more wrong, The gate is narrow and those who try to climb over the fence in some other way are condemned. When you stand and tell our Lord you are worthy to enter his kingdom because of your pitiful works I think of John the Baptist saying he was not worthy to tie our Lord's shoes. Mormons believe their works will save them. They will be found guilty at. the judgement and cast into the lake of fire. The 2nd article of faith says we believe in being punished for our own sins. Does any Mormon understand the gravity of this belief? At the final judgement your sins will be on you not Jesus and there will not be a drop of grace for you. I tremble thinking about all my relatives that sold their sole to this counterfeit religion...
@@johnrowley310 you really don’t know what you are talking about.We don’t believe the works will save your soul. The Grace of Jesus Christ will save all who come onto him. I pray The Lord will bless you with understanding, love, and healing. The response you gave is not even recognizable in the way the Lord teaches us to spread the gospel. Be better
Thank you. When I was one of the YW leaders our teaching was always based on how to be more Christlike. Our prophet encourages us to "hear him', our savior Jesus Christ.
@@kddixson4216 Unfortunately, the Jesus taught in Mormonism is not the one of the Bible. When it comes to Jesus, we Christians believe He is fully human and fully divine, and he has always been divine given that he is the second person of the Trinity, God the Son. Mormons, however, believe that Jesus Christ was once an “intelligence” such as us who existed from eternity. He was not always divine, and he was not always the Son of God. Instead, God chose him to become the firstborn among the intelligences by giving him the first spirit body. Mormons take away the whole divinity of Christ.
The BOM is a total plagiarized book. Smith translated in old English? He attempted to make it sound like the King James Bible. There are no scholarly reference works on reformed Egyptian. Scholars acknowledge there is no existence of either a reformed Egyptian language or reformed Egyptian script as it was described by Joseph Smith. No archaeological, linguistic, or other evidence of the use of Egyptian writing in the ancient Americas exists.
The comment about fringe ideas is super true.
So I’ve been following the Daybell trial in Idaho (which is an off shoot cult from LDS) and suddenly my feed is full of stories and interviews involving the Mormons! And then this video comes up! It’s been heavily on my heart to pray for the Mormons as a result, especially the missionaries! Mormon missions are seriously no joke!
No. No it's not an offshoot anymore than Jim Jones was an offshoot of Christianity.
We appreciate your prayers!
When your current prophet can counter prior prophets, including the founder, you have a cult.
The LDS Church is not a cult by the definition of a Cult, here is Wikipedia's definition;
Cult is a term, for a relatively small group which is typically led by a charismatic and self-appointed leader, who excessively controls its members, requiring unwavering devotion to a set of beliefs and practices which are considered deviant (outside the norms of society).
I am not supporting the Church but it has 15 million members so it is not small, there is no self appointed leader (other than Christ) the Church leadership changes often, there are no "deviant" norms. Many religions such as Jews, Muslins, Sikhs etc. have much more restrictions on dress, food, prayers etc. There are actually more Mormons than Jews in the world, there are 9 members of congress that are Mormon, the former Senate leader was active Mormon. All religions have decreased in membership.
Not quite, let's think before we type. In the bible things seem very contradictory and these were prophets. We have the humility to acknowledge wrongs and persist on rights.
@Harshit Garg Please take your own advise. I have not found an alleged contradiction that can't be addressed when you put it in historical/cultural setting. The Bible has an arc of salvation from beginning to the end. The message unfolds but doesn't change.
Mormanism changed what Smith and Young established. It is a cult.
@@chrisazure1624 how did it change? Same tenants, same covenants, same everyone getting a planet, same same same, same three levels of heaven. Very curious
@@harshitgarg419 Priesthood for African Americans. Legallity of polygamy.
I really respect Eric Johnson, he and his wife were very hospitable to my husband and I while we were traveling in Salt Lake City in 2018 during a ministry trip. They let us spend the night in their wonderful home and drove us to the airport..we were literally strangers to them! At the time we had no idea the extent of Eric’s writings and research..he was just a kind brother in Christ who wanted to help whoever he could. ❤️
It's interesting listening to non members talk about the church. Something they appear to know a little about.
There is no physical evidence for Joseph Smith’s assertions concerning language, wars, animals, etc. no physical evidence for anything.
Why can’t I talk about this?
Thank you for remembering the VERY unique dynamic of faith here in Utah. So much has changed in the last 30 years. I hold out hope & pray that, as the LDS church changes, a true understanding of God's grace and His nature emerges from within. God knows & I don't, but I predict a coming fissure that may allow such a thing to happen. Based on conversations, I think there are some in the LDS church who yearn for it - perhaps similar to the "unknown god" as referenced by Paul at the Areopagus in Acts 17.
I too pray for the LDS church. I pray that their leaders move towards a biblical understanding of the gospel. I grew up in the church and I do not recognize the current LDS church. I pray for my family who remain in the LDS church. I certainly see and sense cracks in their devotion to and belief in there own doctrine.
I was raised mormon and married in the temple at 19 years old. My first time through the temple I immediately felt an unsettling feeling. I turned to my mom and said this is not of God. When we were done I asked my soon to be father in law about the odd things we did and he told me to just have faith. I decided to get the answers for myself. When I researched the background of how church really started which we were NOT taught I came to the truth this was not anything close to what the true gospel is. This is a great discussion. I have many loving Mormon family members but we have to tell them the truth. ❤
It’s Masonic rites
May I ask what your relationship to God is now?
I found Jesus. He being perfect and me being full of sin died for me on the cross. I am not deserving of it. My life has dramatically changed. ❤️❤️❤️
@@lanaeustachy892 Praise God!! I’m so very happy to hear that! My husband is ex Mormon, now Christian. We are praying for his mom and youngest sister to come to the saving grace of Jesus! (Two other siblings and their families are now Christian)
@@ginamiller6754 I will pray for his mom and youngest sister. I have so much family caught up in the LDS lie. They are very conditioned. I thank Jesus every day that He changed my heart and continues to everyday.
Nothing seems to have really changed with Mormon doctrine. It’s the same empty rules and rituals.
Best reason people are leaving is because it's a proven fraud.
The Mormon Church has nothing to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It's absurd.
How so?
@@tonymason9855 The Mormon Church has many, many teachings that are at odds with the Bible. At its very foundation, the Mormon Church teaches a different God and a different Jesus. They teach that both God the Father and Jesus were created beings who achieved godhood.
@@nasa214 I see. I'm just curious because The Book of Mormon doesn't seem to say anything about a different God or Jesus. From what I'm reading, it seems to be exactly the same God and Jesus. Father, Son, Holy Spirit are one eternal God, right? Hmm Alma 11:44 is a BC prophecy of who they are and that sounds like the Trinity. 3 Nephi 11: 14, 17, 27, 36 is Jesus speaking to the people of this land after he resurrected and came to teach them. It seems exactly the same to me. Where do they get their beliefs from?
@@tonymason9855 “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!………..It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God……..yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible….” (from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith and History of the Church, 6:302-17)
@@tonymason9855 “He [God] is our Father-the Father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted being. It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being;” (Brigham Young in the Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 333)
LDS church has always struck me as more oriented around lifestyle than doctrine. A church like that will change much more than one oriented around doctrine. The scary thing is I see the same thing at work in young Evangelicals. If Christianity is a lifestyle then the authority of scripture is more limited.
It's funny that back in the 70s I served a mission for the Mormon church. Went through the temple and all that entails. I left the church about 10 years later. After a recent DNA test I discovered I have sub saharan African DNA. I never would have been allowed in the Temple back in the day if they had known. How many other people who have African DNA have been admitted to the temple and given the priesthood. How would they have ever known. I'm so ashamed I was ever a part of that racist organization.
Thank you for this podcast. As a faithful Catholic, I can affirm that while the infallible teaching of the Church on sacramental marriage can never be changed (one man and one woman for life)… there are infiltrators in the hierarchy of the Church who are actively trying to subvert the moral teaching on the practice of homosexuality, abortion, and contraception. I am not a fan of this pope either. I hope we will have a more faithful pontiff in the future. We miss JP II! On a side note, I must always chuckle whenever I hear about the Mormon aversion to drinking coffee and alcohol. I start every day with my morning pot of coffee (decaf usually). And I enjoy Corona beer 🍺 in the summer after I finish cutting my lawn…! 😊😊😊. P.S. I agree that you have to give Mormons a better option if they do choose to leave their church. Atheism is a poor substitute, even though many ex-Mormons are now atheists. 🤔
It is very refreshing to listen to you, gentlemen discussing the Mormon, church, history, and downs. You are very very orientated to fax the truth.
A little insight as to why so many ex Mormons leave Christianity all together?
I grew up believing and knowing that I belonged to the only true church on earth. As I got older I learned that I was lied to my entire childhood. At this point what church or even scripture in the Bible can be trusted?
Growing up in a high demand and highly controlled religion makes all the simple things of life complex.
Unfortunately Nate the LDS church taught you not to trust the Bible when they told you to only believe it as far as it’s translated correctly. I encourage you to just give the Bible another try to read it like a story book with no pre conceived ideas about what it’s saying. Try it and see what you think.🙂🙂🙂
The “no coffee” thing doesn’t have anything to do with caffeine, I’m not sure why this guy thinks that. People are allowed to drink pop that has tons of caffeine. I’m not a Mormon, but I know it’s not a caffeine issue.
Yeah, at this point it's an obedience test. Nothing more. And indeed nothing to do with caffeine like you said.
Scripture says no "hot drinks". Modern prophets have interpreted this to mean no tea or coffee.
Hot chocolate is fine.
I know. It's confusing. It is about showing obedience to God. I was taught it was about health. But if it was shown that coffee is healthy it wouldn't matter, still no go unless the prophet updated the "word of wisdom". The word of wisdom refers to the health code.
Sean should have a practicing Latter-Day Saint on. Or I'd be happy to give a summary of what it was like to be a practicing Latter-Day Saint for the first 33 years of my life.
Between 1930-1970, several church leaders conflated the no coffee rule to include caffeinated drinks more generally which were highly discouraged. That has gradually shifted between about 1980-2010 so modern mormons will generally allow for coke/pepsi and only forbid coffee even if this was not the case a generation ago.
The point is nobody knows why this silly rule was created, including none of the leaders, nor the prophet. And then you get inconsistent messaging. What is a bishop to say to a kid asking about coke? You will get a random answer.
True!!
Nice job guys. I’m a nuanced Mormon and you’ve got all of this spot on.
The research by Jana Reiss is interesting but there needs to be a follow up study. I have observed a decline in church activity pre- and post COVID. However there are many pre-COVID members who are now inactive for no apparent reason. They simply are not attending church anymore. This is despite claiming they have a testimony.
Yes, we need a follow up study. Agreed!
I randomly stumbled across this video and can only say as an active, believing Latter-Day Saints, this seems well intentioned and informed, but they are missing a lot of crucial details-too many to innumerate in this venue. If you want Latter-Day Saint information why not ask them or have one on while discussing them? I am a millennial and some was true and some was not. I just pray that our Christian cousins are Christ like enough to not judge the worlds way. God bless.
Jesus Christ said he came not with but with a sward (paraphrasing). I never understood this until a week ago. I'm generation X if that means anything to you. We decided that we would live our lives and define success our own way, and give others the space and respect to do it their own way even if we disagreed.. No skateboarding in the Olympics, no problem. We created the X games. But we never tried to eliminate the Olympics. That's why I didn't care that my kids left the church. Of course I wish they stayed but I'd rather let them be who they wanted to be than force them to be what I wanted them to be. One of my kids disowned me. Not because of anything I said or did but because I refuse to leave the church. My child is trans and insists that I'm a stupid, transphobic, brainwashed, cult member. It doesn't matter that I let 2 different trans people live with me for free. My child refuses grant me the same respect and freedom I grant them. I finally realized this is what Jesus meant. I could easily get my child back if I leave the church an dawn a pride flag. I considered it. But who do I choose? My child or my savior? It was a painful decision but an easy one. I've received more from and owe more to my savior. This was the sword that divided us. Anti Mormon and anti religious efforts will divide many. It is inspiring to read your words standing up for the church in a simple loving way.
As a millennial Latter-day Saint I agree with the full use of the name of the church, especially in the context of official church publishings and speach used by even the lowest level leaders of the church. There are several faith traditions and churches that use the book of Mormon. Hearing leaders use the title Mormon when exclusively refering to members of the church was like hearing a priest say "Christians, otherwise know as Roman Catholics, believe this". Casual conversation and non journalistic publications is a different game, as long as everyone knows who we are speaking about.
There are at least 15 reasons why LDS Gen-Z and Millennials are leaving. It is estimated that 86% of youth will leave the church after age 18. To give one clear cut answer is not possible. We had a parents meeting about this very issue on Sunday. The tendency is to focus on external forces like the influences of secularism, social media, negative statements about the church on the internet, drugs, alcohol, dating outside the faith, having non-LDS friends, attending university, social stress, and older leadership, etc. The focus should be on what is happening in the home without blaming the parents. The person needs at a young age to have the seeds planted for a lifelong relationship with Jesus Christ. As they go from age 13 through 47 (Gen-Z to Millennial) they need to foster that relationship. Get them the younger the better. The youth will stay active, go on mission, marry in the temple, and hopefully stay active for a lifetime. Finding the right keys to unlock that door is the stumbling block at the moment.
You can hear unisono voices that the youth programs keep degrading over the years, less dances and youth activities in the wards.
When Black men were denied the Priesthood, it also meant black women (who don't get the Priesthood anyway), were also not allowed to go to the temple. I guess the prophets didn't have discernment to know Brigham Young was racist. As far as coffee goes, I have come to the conclusion that coffee has more health benefits for humans than not drinking coffee. Soda has ZERO health benefits.
I'm from Susquehanna, PA. It's funny to hear my hometown/river referenced here. Susquehanna is a major Mormon pilgrimage site. This is important stuff for me personally.
“From the beginning, the revealed truth of the Holy Trinity has been at the very root of the (Catholic) Church’s living faith, principally by means of Baptism. It finds its expression in the rule of baptismal faith, formulated in the preaching, catechesis, and prayer of the Church. Such formulations are already found in the apostolic writings (Scripture), such as this salutation taken up in the Eucharistic liturgy- The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. 2 Corinthians 13: 13, 1 Corinthians 12: 4-6, Ephesians 4: 4-6.” Catechism of the Catholic Church 249. 😊
46,000 denomanations, and only the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints gets this kind of attention. ??
I've been studying Mormons for years. What I notice is that recently they're desperately trying to emphasize that they're Christians. However, they won't be Christians until they radically change their interpretation of Christ and salvation.
I use and read your book "Introducing Christianity to Mormons" love it bought three books for friends to read
I’m excited for this one!
It's super interesting stuff. Enjoy and let us know what you think!
I pray that everyone leaves that religion. That was the craziest thing I've ever heard, and I was raised Jehova's Witness! It's taken years to get that out of my head. But, God is leading me where I need to be.
Amen
I had a classmate who was a gay Mormon. They are definitely getting more progressive.
Let me get this straight. Young Mormons are leaving the church because of their conscience. But you said people shouldn't trust their feelings because people have an evil nature. So are you suggesting they should not trust their conscience and stay in the Mormon church?
Very informative facts. This man knows the facts.
Why did you say that women can’t make it to the celestial kingdom without a man? A man can’t go to the celestial kingdom without a wife as well.
Good question I'm not a Mormon but I think it's in the D&C section 132 if you want to read it for yourself and come up with your own conclusion God Bless ✝️🕯️
I am a Latter-Day Saint and believe in the Savior. The Lord Jesus Christ
Are you interested in talking to me a born again Christian about my beliefs in a Christlike manner with no harshness towards you? I know some self proclaimed Christians aren’t Christlike at all. I’m not perfect but I come with the love of Jesus
I'm LDS and spent quite a bit of time last year with Christians in the UK. They distanced themselves as much as possible from American Evangelicals (AE's) during our conversations and believed (rightly so) that AE's do not have the Charity spoken of by Paul in 1 Cor. 13.
“True Religion” is a relationship, communion, fellowship, and reality for people who believe (James 1: 27). False religion is based on fraud, lies, and deceit. 😊
I don't think there will be major changes. People will leave to follow another faith that suits their sense of what is right and wrong. The church will maintain a course and as other churches shift with every wind of culturally changing sensibilities the church will attract people who understand that to follow the wills and laws of man does not lead men to salvation.
LDS here, never heard of a teaching that I had to earn my right to be born. I do believe in the preexistence.
Sean does a much better job at being balanced here. If you only listened to Eric then you would think that there was something exceptional about these trends among LDS millennials and Gen Z. The reality is that my church is affected by national trends, but it has done a much better job at weathering them than mainstream Christianity has. The only churches that may be doing better at resisting these trends are the SDA's and the JW's.
And contrary to what Eric says, there is a way for Orthodox Latter-day Saints to reject Brigham Young's teachings on black people without the help of "post modernism".
Please explain
Praying my family gets out of this and into Christianity 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻pray for the Nelson family, please.
This podcast lacks any substance. No purpose other than bad intent. Vague caricatures, and loads of assumptions and misunderstanding. 🙄
Wish i never heard about mormonism
This is very informative and I love that he is sharing this I love that you interviewed him! There is just one thing, the phrase he keeps using, "you have to understand." It's like, "Um" But possibly worse it is very distracting :-( because this gentleman is doing a great thing I would not want his message to be lost because of that.
The whole prophet paradigm is incorrect. It is the same paradigm in many offshoots of the lds church and in the Vallow/Daybell case. They all use the same method to determine whether someone is a "true" prophet and it isn't the method mentioned in the bible.
Truly enjoyed this video and I learned so much. For some reason I had no idea LDS were experiencing the same issues my Baptist denomination is experiencing. Thank you.
You bet!
@@SeanMcDowell You didn't answer my straightforward question: IS it not your position that Mormons are NOT Christians and are bound for HELL ?? Unless they change to being Protestants ??
Yeah, well, if polygamy is practiced in the eternities, what if all of us don't have the same Heavenly Mother?
Look at what the leaders do, not what they say. The more progressive leaders are getting their way, having given in to pressure from lgbt activism over the last 20 yrs.
I don’t think that is a question ‘do you abstain from coffee and tea’. I’ve never been asked that.
I left the church about a year ago but still maintain my conservative values 🇺🇸
Could this be signaling the collapse of the LDS church?
I’m related to the Scott’s in Utah and Idaho . A very prominent Mormon family.
Marie Osmond has said she didn't see anything wrong with gay marriage.
That’s her opinion.
Im Indiginious to this land( Navajo), in our culture, we go by clans, and believe in matriarch and there is true reason, thats for a whole other conversation, when i was on indian placement program, i used to be insulted and told we believe in paganistic beliefs. Now today the tables are turning. Good video, its beginning to sound like raggedy ann, peirre, secretary press to the whitehouse.
The temple recommend interview question regarding god’s law of health is specifically: “Do you understand and obey the Word of Wisdom?” That is it. It’s not all the added fluff that these guys are talking about. It’s an interesting discussion though.
Do you have to obey the word of wisdom perfectly to get the temple recommend?
This program makes sense. But evangelicals walk the ecumenical line. I am glad they are accepting of others. Grace is a tricky thing because older line Protestant believers, like me, feel Grace is hand in hand the with commandments and living them. Not necessarily obeying the commandments so much as integrating them into one's life. We are on the same page on Grace, but saved is relative to the behaviors one lives by--therefore repentance is genuine.
Sean! Its been a while since I've tuned in. I really loved your coversations with deconverters. I was surprised with the similarities between Christianity deconversion and my mormon collapse of belief.
If you want a chance to witness to a bunch if exmormons let me know! I have a platform.
I am skeptical of critical social justice, which tends to be the go to place for other exmos.
At this point, calling The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints "The Mormon Church" seems disingenuous based on current changes.
Y’all should have a conversation with Jacob Hansen at the thoughtful faith channel about this and talk about some of your arguments. There’s some good things in this video but plenty of incorrect suppositions and double standards that y’all should address.
Some, just can't leave THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, alone. Even the time of JESUS CHRIST, they just can't leave, JESUS CHRIST'S CHURCH alone.
You need to have Scott Adams back on to set you two straight again.
I appreciate the attention but Of course you leave out any actual representation from actual Church members, even though so many would like to discuss this topic with you. It is not just an LDS problem, it is just what anti-mormon want to focus on to show disparity even when their own churches are bleeding and conforming to progressive Christianity. Is it not written to take out the mote from you own eye before taking the beam out of others. Do these people just want Christianity to suffer by dismissing their own scriptures and create divisive comments on other Churches they clearly dont understand?
I agree. I no longer practice as a latter-day saint, but it would make for a more balanced conversation.
The post Mórmons primarily are not going into a new Biblical cult. Most leave religious cults all together. I being Gen X left in 2013 and have also discovered that the Abrahamic triad of faiths is also false.
Christianity in all of its various forms has had a strong run for almost 2000 years, but homophobia, authoritarianism, paternalism, white supremacy, insistence on inerrancy of scripture , denial of scientific knowledge, denial of personal freedom and equal rights, etc. that afflict the institution are not ok with young people in the western world. Churches are mostly empty in Europe. North America is strongly heading in that same direction. These fellows and those fighting “culture wars” trying to restore religious control over people haven’t figured out you can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube.
It doesn’t really matter what they call us. Jesus’ church will always be named after him. People waste their time on things that don’t matter! I and out of church. Let’s focus on Jesus and stop wasting energy
I’m a member of the 9 word church that is the subject of this video. I’m about 10 minutes in so far where Eric has mentioned President Nelson’s emphasis on members of the church using the full name of the church rather than Mormon.
There are multiple reasons for this, but I get the impression that this is largely geared to members of the church. From what I can gather, I would say it’s a call to center our focus & identity in Jesus rather than various cultural aspects of the church.
I enjoy the channel & look forward to the rest of the conversation.
It seems to be an attempt to normalize and mainstream the religion, as well as to deceive the Elect and investigators into thinking it is not anathema to Christianity. A lot of what the General Authorities ask the members to repeat is Public Relations dressed up as spirituality. The prime example being "sacred not secret". It's a meaningless catchphrase, every other religion in the world is dying to show you what's sacred to them, not to conceal it. But the church gets members to repeat it and act offended at Mormon rituals being shown and discussed, thereby concealing something that makes Mormonism look weird and unchristian. So it goes with the word Mormon. Nelson gets members to act upset whenever someone uses the word -- I have had TBMs call it a slur and compare it to the N-word -- and in turn this pressures outsiders to use the more Christian-sounding official name.
@@FalconOfStorms How did you come to that conclusion?
@@BarrettVanDyke I did explain that within the comment itself with the example of the nonsensical catchphrase sacred not secret. We can go over more of how TSCC conducts PR campaigns both within or outside of the church, or examples of TSCC wanting to seem less weird and be included under the umbrella of Christianity.
@@FalconOfStorms Thank you. Do you think the leadership’s ultimate purpose is to be accepted by the outside world?
@@BarrettVanDyke The leadership is fractured. Some want to lean in to whst makes Mormonism unique, while some want to minimize the differences. Just like some want to bury history and attack historians while others want to be completely open. As far as Nelson goes, his agenda is definitely focused on normalizing Mormonism. We'll have to figure out what Oaks wants when he assumes office.
It's not a church it is a cult, I know I was a member for 10 years until the Lord saved me.
Can someone tell me where to find the anonymous essays he mentioned?
26:43 “if your wrong even once” Wait, didn’t Moses strike the stone in a way that caused him not to be allowed into the Promised Land? So is he not a true prophet?
You confuse a “word from the Lord” with behavior. Moses clearly violated what was spoken. He didn’t falsely communicate something and say it was from the Lord. But rather , the Lord spoke and Moses disobeyed. That’s disobedience not false prophecy
Jesus is enough!
Why? Because the second "m" is silent.
😂😂😂😂
mormons pick and choose when the profits are speaking as men or speaking for god. "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever" except for when talking to mormon profits.
I find it odd that y'all care so much about this. Why do you care about a different church group's crisis or perceived crisis?
For one, it’s It’s telling about larger cultural dynamics at play.
@@SeanMcDowell IS it not your position that Mormons are NOT Christians and are bound for HELL ?? Unless they change to being Protestants ??
@@SeanMcDowell I’d like to get analysis of what you think LDS people believe
Can anyone explain the reference to “the silent” or “silence” he is referencing along with boomers and gen x? I’ve not heard that before…
It is a self-defeating argument to say the Bible says people are wicked. It has truth in context, people can also be good on many levels. What it does is undermine the person saying it, it’s a non-argument because in some way you are saying that you are good for proclaiming you and everyone else are wicked and recognizing it above others. It is a plain case of calling good evil and evil good. An evangelical doesn’t have a claim to be called or ordained to interpret the Bible for everyone else but they continually claim only what they state is Biblical. Biblical culture has simple meanings for terms like son or child that are used often, it means you grow to be like your parent, but evangelical doctrine doesn’t make people children of God(John 1: 12), at best people are made out in evangelical interpretation to be ransomed manufactured servants whose reward in heaven is they get to stop suffering. At the root of tolerance for wickedness, transgenderism by misinterpreting the image of God, and disregard for authority can all be found consistent with what evangelicals say are most important points in their claim for what is Biblical.
Luke 18:19 19“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good-except God alone.
@@rosealexander9007 There is a gradation for what good is. Able was good and Cain wasn’t on their mortal level of analysis.
Don’t you guys have better things to do?
Not all the time. Sometimes this is the most important thing.
The reason evidence is not that big a deal when it comes to this it's because faith is not a head issue it's a hard issue As jesus said the world hates him because he declares its ways as evil
This guy is speaking partial truths. Only about half of what he is saying is true. And noone in ANY meeting has ever said anything about praying to our heavenly mother. We ONLY believe in praying to God The Eternal Father. Most do NOT realize the purpose for churches anyway.
The people don't need to go to the general conference. They watch from their churches and homes on that thing called the internet that millennials are experts with. 🤦♀️
Listen to the current prophet first, because they tell people what is most important to focus on in the moment. Noah had important information for the people at his time, but they would not repent.
Why would you use the name of the church instead of Mormon? Because power over the adversary comes through using the name of Christ.
Yea it’s on purpose. The remove the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints on purpose. So they argue that we don’t believe I Christ when that’s actually not true
Read the Bible and listen to Jesus! Jesus is enough🙏✝️♥️
Jesus is enough! The work He did on the cross for our sins is enough!
I know you are doing your best, but you are not correct. If you are going to put this up, have someone who knows
The LDS doctrine is very hard to live.
I believe we do have a Heavenly Mother; that Father in Heaven does not give anyone on earth a chance to disrespect Her, thus She Is protected.
❤❤❤
You guys don’t even have your facts correct. It was not a hat for one, changing history is not right
There is no plausible reason for polygamy in Heaven. It's very laughable as if 1 woman is not enough to populate in eternity. It's eternity. No time limit. So silly.
Why would people be repopulating heaven?? Seems odd .
Don’t they believe people get to heaven from earth after death??
Ahhh, 72 virgins, polygamy in heaven, Satan loves to entice men with carnal sex for eternity...
@@hereweare9096 it’s actually the opposite they believe that they have spirit babies in the celestial kingdom and they have to come to earth to get a physical body. The celestial kingdom is becoming a god of your own planet. They believe after they pass away on earth they will become a god or goddess of their own planet where they make spirit babies
The prophet and authorities are the only ones who can choose the principles of the church with changes from much prayer 🙏 and revelation from God other wise it wouldnt be the church of jesus christ of latterday saints
It’s almost like what you all promise aren’t any facts and up for interpretation. Hmmm
Are you guys Christian’s?
Look at both of these pastors Sean and Eric. Two Queens who missed the boat they thought they were sure but now they're afloat they sold their soul for a pie-in-the-sky now let's rearrange society so the narcissist and I
Two Queens who sit in the pulpit wishing they had not been late
They could have been at that wedding with their true love at the gate
But no they followed Evangelical Christians cuz they believe what they were saying but they were that being gay was such an evil sin now you must lie and start betraying
Go become straight we know you can do it Jesus Christ everything is possible now just go do it
But oh now they sit the Queen's speak trying to figure out what happened to society as a weep😢
Y’all look up the salamander letters.
That was a forgery.
The people are puppets 😢
President Harold B Lee of the Quorom of the 12 apostles once said a liberal Mormon is simply one who does not have a testimony. I have found that to be true in most cases. The lack of understanding of the churches principles cause these members to loose faith in god and put more faith in man. It’s very sad.
Nah. I just realized that everything that I was taught was from God was actually from a man. And I realized that I had put my trust in man.
Please, we’re Latter Day Saints, not ‘Mormons’. Thanks
Please, you are Mormons and always will be called Mormons. Get used to it!!
Reading the comments, it's so interesting to note that most of the people who leave the LDS church can't seem to thereafter leave it alone.
That is because we care about those of you who are still sitting in that house which is on fire.
@inChristalone1960 No, you don't. You may be able to get some people to swallow that lie, and you may even swallow it yourself... if you repeat it enough, but I don't believe you, and I don't think you believe you. I've been LDS for a long time, and there are two truths I've observed about those of you who tell that lie. 1) There lurks a thinly disguised acrimony beneath the holier-than-thou "I just want to save you" facade. And 2) I see many other churches attacking the LDS church and its members directly, but what I never see is the church or its members attacking other religions. So please, and I mean this in the most Christ-like way possible, go troll someone else.
@@Dan_Gleebalz This is your personal most caustic and judgemental opinion. Just because you think it and say it does NOT mean it is true! You go bully and slander somewhere else!!
@inChristalone1960 No, it's not my personal opinion. It's my personal observation. Huge difference. And I'm not bullying anyone. I let you know unequivocally where my line is drawn and that I'm on to your fake piety. You're the one who piped up with the express purpose of telling some random stranger they're wrong and trying to change their religion. You tell people they don't believe in the correct Jesus, that they don't believe in the correct scriptures. What would you call that? Kinda sounds like what I described in my foregoing comment. Go in peace. I mean that sincerely. ✌️
@@Dan_Gleebalz Peace to you , man.
You do not know me
even
if
I do not
Commmunicate
to your
standard
of
Perfection.
You still do
NOT KNOW
my heart
for
The lds.
I do apologize
For offending you.
That
was
Never
My intent.
You are missing the point, it doesn’t matter. The church name is the church of Jesus Christ. Saying Mormon doesn’t change the church name
gogogo! Thank you for sharing taht!
Joseph Smith fought polygamy to the end. There’s no way that someone who fought so hard and publicly for truth would be shy about doing something that he felt God was telling him to do, even if Emma was mad about it. There are only accounts of Joseph Smith fighting AGAINST polygamy and telling the members to stop it. The accounts of JS practicing polygamy are all second and third hand accounts and came decades AFTER JS died.
It’s time for you historians to be honest and admit that there’s stronger evidence that Brigham Young made up D&C 132 (it was first mentioned 8 YEARS after JS died and wasn’t canonized until decades after his death) than there is for JS supporting and practicing polygamy.
Brigham’s character is poor (blood atonement, racism, treating women as property, Adam/God theory, etc.) and we all know that Joseph’s character is good. So why would it not make sense to everyone that he dishonestly introduced polygamy too?
😂😂😂😂 he had over 20 wives. 2 were 14 year old girls. You really should look at information outside of the church for information. You wouldn't buy a car with only information from the dealer. They would give you biased information. Sucks. I was a mormon.... last year. Primary president in fact.
@@jonipitcher8095 but no coffee 😂😂
Joseph Smith had many wives and underage wives plus he married himself to other women that were already married. The reason Joseph Smith was killed was because he ordered that a printing press to be burned down because they were going to expose his polygamy. Then a angry mob killed Joseph Smith because of it. Look it up it’s all in your church history.
JS character speaks for itself! He was caught by Emma with their 14 year old servant having sex in the barn!
@@Jesusisking58 and honestly until a member starts digging deeper and even listening to outside of the church for your information members are not told of this. I'm 38 years old and until last Nov I was all in believing. But funny the prophet says those who leave are lazy learners... but all the people I know say they were digging and wanting to be faithful and found stuff that turned what we members are taught upside down.
BYU has a pride month
We are latter day saints not Mormons !
You are part of a cult.
I get it you want to distinguish yourselves from The other Mormon split groups !