TIG Brazing a Repair on a Cast Iron Wilton Vise

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  • Опубликовано: 16 янв 2025

Комментарии • 96

  • @raphaellaurer9806
    @raphaellaurer9806 6 лет назад +4

    Keith, watching this with much interest. I have been a welder Boilermaker retired now for many years. There are two kinds of processes for brass, brazing is capillary attraction the brass flows in and fills the expanded cast iron or other parent metal. Basically like filling swiss cheese holes in expanded parent metal openings, there really is no fusion. Welding is fusion where as the term implies two metals are fused together. Now there is such a process as braze welding. You get the cast hot enough to fuse with the brass which requires much heat and a puddle. That crack if it is not braze welded all the way through it will only crack through your filler brass through use of the vise over time. Tig is concentrated heat in a specific area creating a puddle to add filler metal, I couldn't see very well but don't think it was puddling. All those sparklies at the start is just throwing in a lot of porosity, kind of like pop corn, caused from the cast still being dirty. Tig will draw out any trash and cast is full of it. I applaud your effort but believe I would have stuck with flame. By the way my friend I really enjoy watching your videos. Just wanted to give you an insight into my experiences.

  • @paulteirney3587
    @paulteirney3587 6 лет назад +12

    Hi Keith I are a sheetmetal engineer and been doing tig welding since the late 1960s and done the blazing many times. One thing I noticed is that you are tending to hold the torch to far away from the area of the where you want the heat. Doing this causes what is called arc blow which is when the arc moves from one area to another jumping from one side to the other. It can be controlled by moving your tungsten closer to the joint. Also moving the earth lead to the job or wrapping the lead around the work if it stills jumps. If you are having trouble seeing the arc use a smaller size Ceramic Nozzle. The tungsten should be about 1/8 inch from the weld. Keep up the welding and try different setting and you will find what suits you best.

    • @razorworks9942
      @razorworks9942 6 лет назад +3

      Paul Teirney
      Well said Paul. Great advice.
      I too have been under the hood for 43 years now and counting. I have done a fair amount of tig work, but nothing on cast iron, only oxy-acc method. But I did notice exactly what you explained and was sitting here saying the same thing you had written....
      Like minds I guess..
      Razor!

  • @wileecoyoti
    @wileecoyoti 6 лет назад +5

    Thanks! I've been considering trying a job using tig brazing, this gives me a good idea of what to expect in my first attempts. Sometimes it really helps to see this stuff from folks that don't do it everyday either :)

  • @andyknowlton7807
    @andyknowlton7807 6 лет назад +1

    Thank you for the repair Keith. I think it will hold up just fine. This vise will not be abused like that anymore once it’s reassembled. I have a big Reed 206 if I need to do some heavy work.

  • @dirk4926
    @dirk4926 6 лет назад +9

    I've done quite a bit of tig welding, but I've only tried brazing once or twice. I really prefer using an oxy acetylene setup to braze. The bronze seems to flow a lot better and I feel like I have a lot more control over the capillary action so I can get the flux, and then the filler deeper into the crack I'm try to repair. Though I will admit it may just be my lack of experience with tig brazing and if I did more I might change my mind.

  • @andrewbooker7650
    @andrewbooker7650 6 лет назад +13

    You might want to try some aluminum bronze or Muggyweld cast iron 77 or 72. I use it for all my cast iron repair.

    • @donmittlestaedt1117
      @donmittlestaedt1117 6 лет назад +2

      I was unaware of Muggyweld. After running a search on the net, their site has great explanations of their products and videos on use. Wonderful resource, Thank you.

  • @july8xx
    @july8xx 6 лет назад +6

    Andy needs to make a new set of jaws that extend over the top of the casting (an upside down L) to take the pressure of downward force and transfer it to the upper part of the casting.

  • @WillyBemis
    @WillyBemis 6 лет назад

    Thank you Keith!

  • @jamesparker1833
    @jamesparker1833 6 лет назад +6

    Keith that turned out good from what I saw. I would have drilled a hole at the ends of the cracks to stop it from cracking more. jim

  • @bcbloc02
    @bcbloc02 6 лет назад +5

    Lots of thermal shock with TIG more so than torch so if joining parts where contraction might cause cracking the torch would be better. For this application it was just fine just a warning about my experience with it for future projects. :-)

  • @kenbarnes8958
    @kenbarnes8958 6 лет назад +5

    SUGGESTION -- when I braze cast iron I groove it out like you did but then I follow that with a rotary file to remove any contaminants from the grinding wheel. ALSO - I didn't see any brazing flux. Is it not required wit the TIG for some reason? I've only brazed with gas.

    • @AttilaAsztalos
      @AttilaAsztalos 6 лет назад

      Admittedly I know nothing about brazing but I was kinda wondering about the lack of any flux too...

    • @maxprophet2401
      @maxprophet2401 6 лет назад

      Argon displaces the Oxygen and some other crap, so if the metals are compatible (brass, cast iron, copper, steel) maybe it's not absolutely necessary. I still think it'd wet in better with some -tin.

    • @mrdddeeezzzweldor5039
      @mrdddeeezzzweldor5039 6 лет назад +1

      My 2 cents: Brazing fluxes (white or black) will simply burn up with the intense heat of the TIG arc and contaminate the braze area. It would be beneficial if Harris were to develop a TIG brazing flux. TIG brazing just does not wet in like torch brazing.

    • @Jessewren1968
      @Jessewren1968 6 лет назад

      Attempting to use a Flux while TIG brazing would make a hell of a mess and probably contaminate the tungsten.

  • @lemans1924
    @lemans1924 6 лет назад +9

    to stop the crack from spreading when heated, its advised to drill an small hole at the ends of the crack on both sides

  • @63256325N
    @63256325N 6 лет назад

    Thanks for the video.

  • @larryfisher7056
    @larryfisher7056 6 лет назад

    Like to see it put all together...nice repair.

  • @daleburrell6273
    @daleburrell6273 6 лет назад

    NICELY DONE!!!

  • @MakeItWithCalvin
    @MakeItWithCalvin 6 лет назад +1

    How would you compare TIG to gas brazing. I know Jody from welding tips & tricks is a fan of AC for the cleaning action. Would be interesting to compare to flux

  • @d6joe
    @d6joe 6 лет назад +7

    That might fit in the gas grill, and as long as the grill is going- the steaks should be done by the time you are done welding.

  • @jeffmoss26
    @jeffmoss26 6 лет назад

    well done!

  • @rickbrandt9559
    @rickbrandt9559 6 лет назад

    Always enjoy the presentations.

  • @jusb1066
    @jusb1066 6 лет назад +1

    got it in the end! didnt look like it had melted , but glad it did, hope you get better at it though, not that im blaming or complaining keith. well done, end result is good, when he paints it, wont see it, and another working vice

  • @elsdp-4560
    @elsdp-4560 6 лет назад

    THANK YOU...for sharing.

  • @1stMrSceptical
    @1stMrSceptical 6 лет назад +1

    I would have 'V' it out and heated the item surrounded by few fire bricks to get it really hot. Used a number a number 10 tip in the OxyAcetylene torch, braze with 8th brass rod filler rod, keep dipping in flux or use ready fluxed rod. To cool off rest on the fire fire brick and cover with a large cardboard box. I have repaired may cast iron items this way. It turns out neat with a small raised herringbone finish which can be left or machined flat. Looking at your job the braze did not penetrate and have a metallurgic bond right through.

  • @jacilynns6330
    @jacilynns6330 6 лет назад

    One thing people overlook, quite easily it seems, is that the strength of a brazing is not from the "blob" on the outside but from the "lapping" in between the metals itself. In the case of cast iron, the farther the bronze gets into the crack the stronger the joint. Does tig give a wide enough heat area for that to happen on cast?

  • @ruperthartop7202
    @ruperthartop7202 6 лет назад

    Good morning from the UK too. Cheers

  • @weshowe51
    @weshowe51 6 лет назад

    I wonder if the initial weld was perhaps adversely affected by it being an inside angle. Meaning the heat stayed in that "L" rather than dispersing. It is obvious that a lot of the "globs" stuck, so those points had to have been at a high temperature. Anyway, thanks Keith, I need to try this myself.

    • @mrdddeeezzzweldor5039
      @mrdddeeezzzweldor5039 6 лет назад +1

      The 'L' part of the braze job only needed a little more time and patience and attention to the braze to ensure that it puddled and flowed evenly across the gap. A little (lot!) closer arc length and hand rest are required (DOE) in comparison to the much more forgiving OA torch flame manipulation, which Keith does well with.

  • @HighlandSteam
    @HighlandSteam 6 лет назад +3

    Sort out a prop for you torch hand. Makes the world of difference.

  • @moustachemike7128
    @moustachemike7128 2 года назад

    I have a Wilton and where the break is in the body and at the key way runner is and it is deformed or oblonged outward so being cast I can't just bend it back to round shape... question.. how too get thru the years of grease and other contaminants ..? pre heat ?? heat sweat the oils out ??
    soak in degreaser ? what?? I seen a cast iron Arch rod used for dirty cast iron ,,,,engine blocks and equipment but that might be to aggressive for this job...

  • @TheArsonsmith4242
    @TheArsonsmith4242 6 лет назад

    great vid of a technique I hadn't seen. Thank you.

  • @keithjurena9319
    @keithjurena9319 6 лет назад +1

    Any braze material with zinc will have this metal boil at TIG torch temperature. Using eutectic silver braze works better. If it is a crack, clean first with phosphoric acid, then water flush followed by Harris white flux slurry. You don't need much flux as it will be forced out by the braze.

  • @tomherd4179
    @tomherd4179 6 лет назад +3

    Keith, did you consider Aluminum Bronze if your TIG has AC? I did see one video in which he used Silicon Bronze on AC with 10% cleaning, but most seem to use Aluminum Bronze, stronger. I usually run into trouble with contamination and have been somewhat able to improve the situation by regrinding most of the weld out and re-welding, with heat issues being watched very carefully. Nothing more disgusting than "ping" when she cools down!

  • @David-Rule
    @David-Rule 2 года назад

    7:50 Oh Boy, that's nice!

  • @patdexter9188
    @patdexter9188 3 года назад

    Don't you need flux to bond the bronze with the cast iron? Maybe a liquid flux in this case using the tig machine?

  • @barrycass2820
    @barrycass2820 6 лет назад

    I have a vice cracked by tiring it to much. My stupidity. So I mig it the first time it didn’t hold. So the second time I weld it 45 across the crack and I didn’t hold back. It’s been good so far it’s bee about a year or so.

  • @razorworks9942
    @razorworks9942 6 лет назад +1

    Practice, practice, practice Keith!
    At least you gave it a go...not your best work, but hey, believe me, I've been there!
    You have a reply from a Paul (somebody), sheetmetal worker,
    Take a look at his comments...
    Razor!

  • @theshaddowaust
    @theshaddowaust 6 лет назад +1

    I would recommend like another, look at muggyweld, it works and yes I have tried it on cast iron and no I am not affiliated with them.

  • @CrimFerret
    @CrimFerret 6 лет назад

    First time I've seen this done with a TIG welder. Usually it's with a torch. You might give that a try next time. Also, is there any flux you could use to make the braze flow better?

  • @EVguru
    @EVguru 6 лет назад +1

    Try a much less acute grind on the Tungsten.

  • @jaywest4102
    @jaywest4102 6 лет назад +9

    As often as you work brazing, it might be time to find a second hand stove from someone remodeling their kitchen. Warm things evenly in the oven.

    • @MaturePatriot
      @MaturePatriot 6 лет назад +1

      I got a little apartment stove from my nephew to use in my shop. Doesn't take much room and heats to 500 degrees F.

    • @rleeAZ
      @rleeAZ 6 лет назад +9

      And... a pot of chili simmering on the shop stove on a cold day is never a bad thing.

    • @therealrg
      @therealrg 6 лет назад +1

      What's wrong with a BBQ? (Propane is best)

    • @daleburrell6273
      @daleburrell6273 6 лет назад

      therealrg ...THAT DOESN'T SOUND SO HOT-!!
      (SNUCKER-SNUCKER-SNUCKER!!)

  • @joshrosenmann7382
    @joshrosenmann7382 6 лет назад

    I've got a 4" Wilton that's missing a chunk out of the jaw casting in about the same area as that one cracked. Is it possible to build up brazed material to repair the jaw? Or is that just a load of trouble for relatively little benefit?

    • @mrdddeeezzzweldor5039
      @mrdddeeezzzweldor5039 6 лет назад +1

      I'll throw a comment at that one... Cast is strong but brittle. It will withstand a lot of pressure then at its yield limit, will all of the sudden snap. Braze on the other hand is much softer, malleable and can stretch. While a fill to remake the missing cast would make a good repair, it would be subject to bending at the same susceptibility (somewhat) as your jaw material. So, if you did the braze fill repair and milled it to snuggly fit the jaw, AND you didn't just clamp down hard on that one side with the braze fill, you should never have a problem. Even if you did (assuming not going full-animal), you might have a slight jaw mismatch on one end of your vice due to jaw face/braze yield but it would probably not break out. Of course, a good wetting of the bronze to the cast at the start of the build-up is key to its holding securely - otherwise that would be your fracture point if stressed too much.

    • @johndavis4800
      @johndavis4800 6 лет назад

      Josh Rosenmann. The old guy that taught me to weld back in the 50s frequently repaired worn cast iron chain sprockets by building up teeth with bronze brazed w/ oxy acetylene. When he was done with the torch, very little filing was required. Granted, these were the big conveyer belt chains sprockets, but he could lay up layer after layer very accurately. Just takes practice and patience. Keith Fenner has some brazing vids which demonstrate much the same technique.

    • @truracer20
      @truracer20 6 лет назад

      This is a repair Keith made to a grinder stand and could easily be done to repair your Wilton using a small piece of cast iron bar stock or a salvage chunk of cast iron.
      ruclips.net/video/0NvIeb8fTAI/видео.html

  • @paulmanson253
    @paulmanson253 6 лет назад

    Hello people. This as always terrific to watch. Brazing is the traditional answer for this kind of repair. My question is would silver solder be as good or better than brazing ? Also,is there anyone knowledgeable enough to torch weld with cast iron filler rod ? I remember being shown such back in the 70s but was warned away from trying it myself. My guess is Nitrogen or Argon flood would be beneficial. Answers? Thanks.

    • @mrdddeeezzzweldor5039
      @mrdddeeezzzweldor5039 6 лет назад

      Here's what I know from experience: Silver solder would bond cast but is intended only for tight fitting gaps and is only effective where capillary action allows it to flow between and fill both surfaces. It is extremely fluid at its liquidus state so where large gaps exist, it will not fill them - it will simply run out. Also, you cannot TIG silver solder in the same manner as TIG brazing rod - when the arc hits the filler, it explodes (kind of), soots up and junks up the whole area. So if you were to start with silver solder, you would have to grind it out in order to do a proper braze. Silicon bronze and aluminum bronze TIG rod are what you use. If properly wetted in, they bond well with cast and hold it together with a tensile strength of 50,000 psi or greater.

    • @paulmanson253
      @paulmanson253 6 лет назад +1

      MrDDDEEEZZZ Weldor Terrific detail on the answer. I know nothing about such things as silicon bronze. I was thinking of oxy acetylene not TIG. Appreciate the detailed response. Cheers.

  • @MaturePatriot
    @MaturePatriot 6 лет назад +7

    If you need to hit it that hard, get an anvil. Nice repair.

    • @dougankrum3328
      @dougankrum3328 6 лет назад

      Yeah, in my 50 some years of metal working...I've seen plenty of guys pounding away at the 'work' in the vise with a 4# sledge....a few times there's a very surprised guy looking at the front half of the vise laying on the floor...

  • @IntegraDIY
    @IntegraDIY 6 лет назад +4

    Maybe I’m wrong? Probably would’ve been best to drill and tap some holes, and put some strong countersunk socket head cap screws to hold the piece to the vice... then follow up with the brazing to fill in the crack..

    • @dougankrum3328
      @dougankrum3328 6 лет назад +2

      Yeah, Lincoln book of arc welding describes that quite well...Brian @ bcbloc02 repaired his big radial arm drill that way.

  • @Teunbaartman1
    @Teunbaartman1 6 лет назад

    a bit surprised that you didn't widen the crack before brazing. Ik would have made the repair easier and stronger IMHO
    cheers
    Teun

  • @railfan439
    @railfan439 6 лет назад +4

    I think using a die grinder with a rotary file would be a better choice than an angle grinder with a wheel. Whether tig or oxy-acetylene, there shouldn't be much of a difference, but I would have used a flux or a flux coated rod. Nice learning experience in a non-stress point of the vise. Thanks, Keith. Jon

    • @mrdddeeezzzweldor5039
      @mrdddeeezzzweldor5039 6 лет назад +3

      Brazing fluxes cause sputtering and weld contamination due to the much higher and concentrated heat of the TIG arc and will only contaminate the weld as it burns. The argon gas flow is as close as your are going to get to a 'flux' in this process. If you have never tried TIG brazing using a flux coated low fuming bronze brazing rod, you're in for a treat! Sputter, pop and flare with ample carbon. There may be a way to 'sneak up' on it but I have had zero luck with that approach as well. What you need for TIG brazing is either silicon bronze or aluminum bronze TIG rod (not gas brazing rod).

    • @Pavinsteelman
      @Pavinsteelman 6 лет назад

      O

    • @Pavinsteelman
      @Pavinsteelman 6 лет назад

      Looks good never seen Tig brazing .

  • @noisybarinavalon
    @noisybarinavalon 6 лет назад +2

    Keith, Did you apply any flux to the cast iron off camera before beginning the brazing process?

  • @chrisbartolo4308
    @chrisbartolo4308 4 года назад

    Slight correction....it's ductile iron rather than cast iron.

  • @qhack
    @qhack 6 лет назад

    Think I'll stick with torch brazing. I think it flows better.

  • @TSODInc
    @TSODInc 6 лет назад

    get a inductive plate?

  • @garymucher9590
    @garymucher9590 6 лет назад

    I have probably watched most every video you've made. But I have to say, I think a torch braze effort would have been the better choice this time. I realize it is total functionable but it wasn't the best braze job you've done. Good video either way. JMHO

  • @osgeld
    @osgeld 6 лет назад

    shop like that should have an oven, for things like this, or powder coat, or vaccu forming or BLT's ...

  • @ottostasi8226
    @ottostasi8226 3 года назад

    I agree with Paul Teirney your torch was way to far away . If you want to see how tig welding or brazing is done check out welding tip & tricks on U tube , the guys name is Jody and in my opionion there is no one better . you did use the correct filler rod ( silicon bronze ) to braze it , Jody used it on a vise check it out .

  • @sid1977
    @sid1977 6 лет назад

    Cast iron vises being welded well by MMA with nickel electrodes.

  • @Militarycollector
    @Militarycollector 3 года назад

    I would leave the welded portion alone and take a little bit out of the backside of the jaw that way you leave that welded reinforcement in there and not compromise it any more than it already is..

  • @nowayjerk8064
    @nowayjerk8064 6 лет назад +1

    toss it in the bbq for a preheat

  •  6 лет назад

    Nice repair, however what is the strength of bronze versus cast iron? How much weaker is it now although stronger than a cracked one?

  • @Mad-Duk_Machine_Werkes
    @Mad-Duk_Machine_Werkes 6 лет назад

    IF you used any flux at all, it was the wrong kind or not enough - that repair doesnt look like it will hold to me? I've welded and brazed a fair bit -

  • @tbernardi001
    @tbernardi001 6 лет назад +1

    Grinder and paint . . .

  • @FredMiller
    @FredMiller 6 лет назад

    Good job Keith. That was definitely one big lump of cast iron to try to get up to braze temp!

  • @premierd8988
    @premierd8988 6 лет назад +10

    Pretty .. it looks like pigeon shit Keith ..lol

  • @petervance9886
    @petervance9886 6 лет назад

    I'll buy that;

  • @jefferyfreeman9203
    @jefferyfreeman9203 6 лет назад

    Next time run that welder in DC negative and use a stainless tungsten. You will be much happier with your weld.

    • @mrdddeeezzzweldor5039
      @mrdddeeezzzweldor5039 6 лет назад +1

      Do you mean Thoriated tungstens? I use Lanthanated for everything and silicon/aluminum bronze braze carbon and stainless steels with no problem. My TIG 200 only TIGs with EN/AC (no possibility of gas flow if I were to switch to EP).

    • @jefferyfreeman9203
      @jefferyfreeman9203 6 лет назад

      thoriated (red identifying band) tungsten .thats what I ment to put.

  • @Peter_Riis_DK
    @Peter_Riis_DK 6 лет назад

    Looked like a bird flew by.

  • @northzero2390
    @northzero2390 6 лет назад +1

    7:50 what a mess. You can never replace a flame and a rod.

    • @daleburrell6273
      @daleburrell6273 6 лет назад

      4x4 & Ponds UK WELL, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO EAT IT!!!

  • @thephotographicauditor6715
    @thephotographicauditor6715 6 лет назад

    Top o the mornin from Columbus, GA

  • @udowillkomm1173
    @udowillkomm1173 6 лет назад

    When will Bubba, the hammer and chisel mechanic, get it. Those are vises for mechanic work, not for forging. A hammer is not the right tool for this type of vise....

  • @strokedriedrie
    @strokedriedrie 6 лет назад

    I know its a casted part, but still I don't understand how to crack the bottom of the jaw holder, at least not with the hard or soft jaws in it! But in my eyes you don't use a vice without jaws.

  • @jaizanwar8227
    @jaizanwar8227 11 месяцев назад

    Talk too much

  • @AA-69
    @AA-69 3 года назад

    🤮