Cast Iron Welding Repair with Copper and Stainless TIG Brazing
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- Welding Cast Iron Repair with Copper and Stainless TIG Brazing. This week I take a new cast iron pan and hang weight off the handle until it breaks and record the results. I repair the cast iron by TIG welding it with copper wrapped around 309 stainless steel Tig wire. It worked! After the part cooled I hung weight off the handle again and recorded the results!
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Can we all agree that that rubber maid bin is the MVP of this series?
Hahahahaha I completely agree 🤣🤣🤣
Was going to say the same thing. I would've expected that thing to yield long before the pan, especially considering how easily they deform to the point that those lids never fit on properly ever again.
🤣🤣🤣
Let's go Brandon,
From the UK.
Hahahaha right on brother! 👍😁
Something for people to keep in mind is not all cast is created equal. There are many different types of cast iron with a very wide variance in carbon content to the metal which effects the weldability is such a way there is some cast that just wont take a repair almost not matter what you do. Another thing to understand is preheating and then utilizing a proper cooling process is key to getting successful results with cast iron repairs. Sand works great but, some cast that's even too fast cooling and you have to keep a torch on it as it cools to slow it as much as possible to stop cracking and fracturing. Another trick I've used that has worked well for me is I will pop it in a preheated oven and bring the temp down over time. Ovens also work well for preheating because just preheating the weld area sometimes isn't enough because the rest of the part will cool the cast too quickly before you start getting weld in there.
Great point! Ash works very well also for post cooldown.
Ex-iron foundry metallugist here. Though my knowlege of welding it extends as far as "dont bother trying"
Copper, in tiny quantities is used to make the iron form pearlite, 0.7% by weight would be considered a lot. When the iron has a lot of pearlite in its microstructure, it gets very hard and very strong, but what it gains in strength, it looses in ductility. Doesnt surprise me that this failed lower.
Maybe try something with a really high nickel content to maintain ductility.
Thanks man I appreciate it!
Great video & very interesting test/results. I have used 309 in many repairs (not cast iron)....and have recently switched to 312.
On TIG-brazing, I've used silicon bronze for some things, but much prefer aluminum bronze with AC. The cleaning action of the AC makes a much better weld, and aluminum bronze is quite a bit stronger than silicon bronze.
Looking forward to your future tests-
Thanks Robert! I'll have to give both a try and see which looks and performs best. It's always fun doing these experiments 😁
I was just repairing cast iron when I decided to take a break ,, and there you are doing the same thing !!
Thanks for the fine video
Ron
Thanks Ron I appreciate it!
This is really funny the crappy plastic handles of the container that had the 279 pounds in it did not give at all.
I know right! The bucket is the real MVP lol 😆
Very interesting
Thank you!
Nice video. Experiments are always fun. Thanks Brandon!
Thanks Earl. I thought this might work. Now we know. Maybe not the strongest repair but it didn't crack so thats a win! 😁😁😁
I wonder if braising with the torch would hold ? Maybe you could show the tote company how tough there tote is and make a commercial a tote that lives in a shop theme stay safe. Tank
Thanks man yeah I think torch brazing would work but the real star is that tote :)
Looks like round two with the stainless and copper twisted weld rod is going smooth @Brandon Lund
I was hoping it was going to work. It flowed really nicely so i'm glad after I regrouped I was able to make it work.
Great video. It seems the filler metal is holding fine but the cast iron is getting weaker. I wonder if changing the preheat method / heat maintenance will change the results. In the few successful cast and malleable iron repairs I've done I've been constantly moving with the flame all over the part for the preheat and I use a flame resistant insulating blanket wrapped around the part best I can while brazing. And to wonder out loud, perhaps the copper wire requires more heat to melt and causes greater heat input at the repair. I agree that brazing is a great way to go to minimize mixing filler metal into the cast iron. Great work.
Thanks man! Yah I think this probably just isn't the proper filler. The grain structure gets weaker due to the heat
Of course the premo method of welding real cast iron is to put the part in an oven to heat it all up, then do the welding, then put back in the oven to cool it all down slow but who can do that.
We heat it up and cool it down the best we can and get away with it.
Where I work I occasionally get cast iron parts that need holes welded up to redrill
( whoopsies )
I usually braze them up so they can actually get a drill through it but I think next time I'm going to try this.
@@michaelszczys8316 I use the blankets and torch because that is what is available. There are certainly other routes. On malleable cast iron my research and experience has shown brazing is the way to go. I use a Tig machine set to AC and the appropriate Tig braze filler. Malleable cast iron is a particular type of cast that likes to crack.
@@fltchr4449 cast iron is already brittle metal and anything in the welding process to make it any more brittle just makes it like glass.
That is the main rule of thumb to keep in mind when welding it.
I noticed that you did not jump around from welding one end to the middle to the other end. Will that cause more tension?
Usually yes. I could tell almost immediately that this was not a viable solution so I just forged ahead.
Thanks, Brandon, and a really good experiment. Very professional and informative. Since the second bread did not occur in the weld, can we draw the conclusion that the base metal was changed and may have become even more brittle??? That weld marterial was strong!!! Great job!!!
Spot on brother! 👌
Great experiment, thanks 👍😁
Thanks Dave!
The weld does look like Silicon Bronze very beautiful Weld @Brandon Lund
Thanks man!
Video hay!hướng dẫn cụ thể,rõ ràng, phục hồi tốt các đồ dùng bếp 👍
Thank you very much! 🙏👍
Last time I welded cast iron was on a pot belly stove door hinges I used nickel rod on a stick welder. It held real good but as far as strength I have no idea. Cool video, Thanks for sharing. 😎👍🍺
Nickel is good stuff and I've had great success with that method you described. Its very strong for sure and one of the better methods in my opinion.
Thanks for sharing with us Brandon, enjoyed your video. Repairs are good for things to be used for decorations, but this information will allow them to stay together in the yard decor. Stay safe and have a Happy Thanksgiving feast with your family. Fred. 🙏🏻🙏🏻👍🏻👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻✋🏻✋🏻
Thanks Fred I appreciate it 😁👍
good test there Brandon, I was thinking you could try some silicone bronze mig welding to see if
that would hold as much. Your 2200 does silicone bronze,
I think that's a great idea Bruce! I love working with silicone bronze! 👍
Once ground, does the weld look like 'cast'? Like the rest of the pan? (Brass always looks 'repaired').
It's closer than brass but the closest match and almost invisible is the repair I made using Muggy Weld. The rods are expensive but they match nice and run like butter.
I think you should use the spot tack function on your Tig. This will minimize heat buildup - which is key. Heat buildup is only effected by time. The longer you stay on the part, the more heat you are putting in. Use nickel rod, touch tip of filler rod right where you want to weld & hit it (& base cast iron) with HIGH amps but VERY short time - say 0.5 seconds or less. Tig spot function will take care of the duration for you. Using switch on torch instead of pedal is more comfortable. Then tack & tack & tack, until you reach the end of weld. Allow couple of seconds between tacks. Oh - and Stainless is ferrous. Copper isnt. They are not supposed to mix.
Great tip!
Enjoyed very much.
Thank you! 👍
Get video keep up the good work 👍
Thanks Guy!👍
So my theory appears to have been valid! Even a broken clock is right twice a day! Ha!😆😁
Hahahaha you were spot on buddy! 👍😁
@@BrandonLund, thanks for this video, it was a great follow up to last weeks!!!
I'm just glad it worked. I felt it would but now we know :)
We weld a forklift transmission case but it still cracked. So i don't know what is the best technique to achieve.
Cast iron can be a crap shoot. Your best bet is to use preheat, try nickle 99, pein the weld then post heat.
Great experiment 👍🏻
It does flow well.
Good one Brandon 👍🏻
It sure does! Thanks Basil 🙏 🙏
@@BrandonLund 👍🏻👍🏻
I have this old bed frame I’ve chopped up for scrap. How do I tell if it’s cast? I’m really not sure
@Rem B in the cast iron playlist I have a video titled something like 5 ways to tell if it's cast iron. If it's a bed frame its definately hardened metal and will dull your tools. It's probaly not cast iron though.
Great 👍video as expected
Thanks Scott I appreciate it 🙏 have a great weekend buddy!
really like to see what standard bronze torch braze and a nickel rod stick/tig would heed in your test!
I think I have a tig nickel test in the series and I'm going to do bronze real soon 👍
@@BrandonLund must have missed it. I'll check it out!
what about spray welding?
That would be difficult on this type of repair
if the break is not on the weld then how can we blame it for the decreased load? i dont get this point
The weld will generally fail in the heat effected zone. Depending on the process and melting temp of the filler will determine how far out that zone extends.
@@BrandonLund
i have access to oxy and brass filler, do you think i will get better loads with that method and more heat = better or worse? thanks
I havent tried brass but ocy fuel is generally the most common and sucessful method.
@@BrandonLund
Got it
thanks a lot Brandon for your videos and help
Good video. You mentioned silicon bronze but have you tested it like this too? I would think that might actually separate in the weld since that isn’t really that strong but I’ve never seen an actual test.
I have not tested silicon bronze but I think your statement is pretty accurate. Because it's soft I think that's why it's good at not cracking but I think it would also decrease it's stengh. I guess we will find out. Thanks for the suggestion 🙏👍😁
@@BrandonLund I’m looking forward to seeing that. Thanks.
I wouldn't call where it broke virgin, the reason it always breaks there is because of the weld heat changing grain structure in that area, I sure you know that though. Would be great to see how well a bronze torch braze does. Thx
Thanks man! Yah bronze is a test I've been planning for a while:)
One point I noticed in that Brandon compared to the other tests on all the others you knew they were going before they snapped, this one just snapped. Is there anything to be taken from that?
Now that you mention it, good point Andy. Like you pointed out this one just snapped without warning. The other repairs started creaking and making cracking sounds before they broke. Although this repair worked I feel there are other methods that did better. I personally have never had good luck using stainless filler on cast. I think it's just too brittle which could be why there was no warning prior to breaking but that's just a guess 😁
@@BrandonLund Good point, I didn't consider the stainless. I wondered if it was the fact that the copper was more mallleable and hid the warning signs. Great experiment and one that you could probably talk about for hours. It certainly has me thinking, Thank you.
Thanks buddy :)
Get a nice shiny new pan just so we can break it.
All in the name of welding.
Right on Michael!
You said about how welding cast steel is easy.... Yeah. Compared to iron it's playground stuff..
I bought an cast steel old Woden 190/7 vice years back for peanuts because it had serious wear everywhere (Except for the screw and half nut). It took about a day of building up weld and grinding to get it looking and working better than new.
I regularly beat the living cr*p out of stuff in and on that vice, and it just keeps coming back for more. :D
The only problem I've found with having a cast steel vice is that weld splatter can't really be knocked off with a chipping hammer. It sticks like glue to it, and you need to resort to an angle grinder 99% of the time.
Are you sure it was cast steel? It almost sounds like ductile iron from what you are describing?
@@BrandonLund I can understand your scepticism, Not many of Woden's Steel range of vices made it over to your shores from here in the UK (Where they were made). There IS a subtle visual difference between the cast steel versions and the more common cast iron ones though. If you look carefully on the right hand face of the movable jaw, you might just be able to make out the ........3/4" high and 1/8" deep cast in capital letters that spell out the word "STEEL" ! LOL !
Woden were rightfully proud of their cast steel vices, and they charged a not insignificant premium over their cast iron versions for them when new, so Woden made damn sure that anyone in the know could tell that these ones were something above and beyond their usual high quality fair (So anyone who entered your workshop could see straight away that you must be a SERIOUS engineer who needed the very best that was available at that time. No puny cast iron vice would ever be strong enough for the advanced heavy fabrication work YOU do, so you needed to have an especially manly one made out of high quality, sweat and testosterone infused, STEEL !!!! LOL ! )
Hahahaha very interesting. I've always enjoyed tools and history so combined it makes it very interesting. I love old tools.
@@BrandonLund Well, over here in the UK, we still have plenty of 100+ years old, British made (Read "Heavely over engineered". :) ) tools and machinery that are in daily use. And when it comes to engineering history, we pretty much wrote the guide book on how to make industrialization work............ Unfortunately, we don't really MAKE anything of note here anymore. When those 100+ years old, British made machines finally get beyond economic repair, they'll be scrapped and replaced with import machines. The story of our great engineering history slowly stopped being added to, and now our DIY tools are made out east, our cars come from Japan or Germany, and our companies farm out all their machining work to India and China We used to say we "Made the tools that made the world", but now, as a nation, we "Buy the tools that are made in China", and it shows. :(
Sadly we were once a big manufacturer but over the years we have shipped our jobs outside our country in exchange for cheaper labor and reduced quality. It's pretty sad we would depend on other countries to produce the majority of the products we use including our medications.
Brandon it could also be the copper content try using smaller wire
I thought that too Robert. I'm going to give that a shot in an upcoming video. I think by going smaller on the copper it might help bring the thermal properties more in line for expansion and contraction but thats just a guess.
I think stainless & copper dont mix. Stainless is ferrous, copper isnt. Still - nice experiment & thank you for showing that. We all learn from these experiments. Only welded cast iron once - it was my own kitchen cooker grille which broke one pan support leg. Couldnt find the broken part so made one from normal steel. I figured Tig would put in too much heat so used Mma 1 nickel rod on DC +ve. Short bursts - like small tacks one next to each other with a few seconds in between. No preheat, no post heat. Have no idea of how strong it is, but it's still there & functional.
Try running pure Argon.
I was
think people cast iron as in manifolds and drain pipes
Exactly :)
I remember comments on this video and I remember you replying to me hmm all my comments gone youtube removed my like and everything on this video or is this a new video hmm 😒 🤔 oh this is the new pan video @Brandon Lund
The thumbnail to this video is simular to the 1st video so thats probably what your thinking :)
How do you determine how much peening it needs?
Great question but there is no clear cut answer. In short, the peining forces the filler into the joint so the thicker the material the more peining is required. Too much is not an issue but less can be. I pein for about 15 seconds per 1/2 to 3/4 of weld length. I hope that helps.
Great video as always Brandon defenitly decreased the strength by quite a bit over Flux Core interesting @Brandon Lund
Thanks Antonio! I really enjoy this type of video. I realize it's not for everyone but I always learn something when I do these experiments so it makes it a lot of fun for me.