That was a satisfactory job on the brazing but I can't help myself. I'm not looking to criticize but I wanted to share some of my experience in the hopes that we all learn how to improve our skills. I learned to braze from a master back in the late 90's and he was really good at explaining the science of metal bonding (ionic bonds) and how different materials react to different temperatures and how to apply the torch flame to achieve optimal temps. He taught me that the "secret" to good brazing is to recognize how the materials involved behave and react when your materials and flame temps are in the "green zone". . I noticed that you had your torch set too cold and you were applying the flame from too far away during the brazing work. . The torch flame has two parts, the "feather" and the "needle" (as I learned to call them), the feather being the transparent blue long and wide part of the flame and the much hotter short blue-white opaque "needle" in the center. The needle is the real working part of the flame for the actual brazing part of the work. . A lot of guys call it a "neutral flame" when the needle is about a quarter inch long and you get more of a "whoosh" sound from the torch and they call it a "carbonizing flame" when a little bit more acetylene is added in to make that needle flare out to about a half inch long and you get more of a "hiss" sound. I would have used the torch as it was set in this video if I were brazing something like copper tubing joints or plumbing joints. For the work in the video, I would go much hotter. . The feather of a neutral flame is fine for the preheat work but when you do the actual brazing (the part where you actually melt the rod in to the gap), you want to be using the heat projecting directly from the tip of the needle for that. That much hotter part of the flame will more quickly melt the rod and allow it to flow like water in to the gap. If the flow of the metal from the rod looks and feels more like maple syrup or pudding than watery, that's a good indicator that you're too cold or too far away. Most of the time it is best to push the tip of the rod in rather than lay the side of the rod down. . You don't want the metal parts being bonded to do the melting of the rod, you want the flame to melt the rod. Ensuring that you apply the rod/heat in that manner, you avoid most of the "clumped and humped" metal around the joint and it's much more efficient, makes a stronger bond, and it really cuts down on the clean up part of the job. When the material on both sides of the gap is sufficiently hot, and you are putting the needle to the rod, that rod metal will naturally flow in and cling to the sides of the gap through capillary action and when your material temps are hot enough, very little flux is necessary. In fact, over fluxing the joint can weaken it if you aren't careful. . When you set your flame for this type of brazing work, in the future, I'd listen for a little more "hiss" and little less "whoosh". I would have set the needle to be "carbonizing" at about a half inch long, with a sharp point, for the work you were doing and apply the flame to the rod/joint so that the needle tip is about an inch from the rod/joint (much closer than you were applying the flame in the video) with very short, quick, tight sweeps of the flame. That will get the temps up to where you need them for a "watery" flow and a very strong ionic bond that creates a very clean and efficient joint. It even uses less rod, less flux, and less time. . As I said, I'm not looking to talk down to anyone, I just hope to make everyone better at the task. Hope this info helps someone. Take it or leave it as you see fit. Best of luck to all.
+BigRalphSmith Keith is not an expert at everything he does, I have heard him say things along that line several times. However he has a tremendous can do attitude, and I think he is a really great guy for taking the time to post his videos to help the hobbyist learn how to do jobs. That also prompts discussion and comments from genuine experts and tradesman like yourself who add valuable contributions.
iiredeye iiredeye I love watching Keith do his thing. He's far more knowledgeable and skilled in machining than I will ever be. He does an admirable job even in those areas where he freely admits a lack of knowledge or experience and any information that I feel might help him out is worth sharing. Not just for his benefit but for anyone who might be able to benefit from the experiences of other tradesmen or craftsmen. Probably the thing I like most about his stuff is that he's willing to make mistakes and show those mistakes to everyone. That makes all of us better at what we do in the end.
+BigRalphSmith I noticed he used a whole bunch of flux (at least, to my noob eyes it looked like alot). I've seen others use a very small amount. How much flux to you need really? Does it vary depending on the type of metal or do you usually only want a thin coat? "You don't want the metal parts being bonded to do the melting of the rod, you want the flame to melt the rod." -Don't you melt the rod with the flame with certain rod (like lower melting point rod; i've heard you do for things like copper pipe)? Also, if you are melting the rod with the flame, how do you know how hot the part needs to be if you are melting the rod with the flame? Are you basically looking for the part and the rod to be the same temperature? Finally, is there a universal "rule" about any technique or do all techniques need to be specific to the metal/rod combo you are working with? I've just been introduced to brazing and am really excited about not needing to go purchase a full welding setup for the little bit of hobby stuff/home repairs I need it for. Thanks for taking the time to do this write up.
F!@#Guilt I'll try to give you the best answers I can but I don't claim to be an expert. All I can claim to be is a good, experienced welder (and even that claim is up for debate or challenge because, in the end, that's just my opinion and the opinion of some others I've worked for and with). . On the question of flux amounts, I find that, if your temperatures are right and your parts are hot enough and you are using the right rods and have the torch set correctly, you will need far less flux than if any of those things are off no matter what material you are joining or rod type you are using. . On the next question, you learn how the filler metal behaves when your temps are right and when they are wrong. The metal from the rod will readily flow toward and adhere to the parts if the parts temps are in the zone. It will glob up like chewing gum when they are too cold. It will run right past the parts like water if they are too hot. It's almost like how the surface tension of water works. It's difficult to put in to words. . The only truly "universal" rule I know of is, eventually, there is no rule that you are never going to need to break on occasion except those that are safety related. Safety rules are genuinely universal. All others, we'd like to think they are but the reality is, not so much. Brazing, like welding of all other types is as much an art as it is a skill and there's only one way to perfect your skill; experience and practice. In the end, the more you do it, the better you get. There's no short cut. Some catch on faster than others. Hope you get the chance to work with a good teacher as I did.
Haven't brazed in 27 years, but I'm still a fan of it. I learned to repair a diesel fuel tank the first time I brazed, did it right the first time.... made me grin from ear to ear :-)
hey Keith, I just did my first brazing repair on cast iron and thanks to your video it turned out great. luckily I remembered watching this video and when the job came up I was able to pull it up on my phone and work along a great teacher. thanks
Keith, your vids are single handedly walking me through the entire process of restoring my 1890 Edwin Harrington engine lathe. Every time i discover a new problem i come check the channel for a video on how to address it. THANK YOU!
Excellent job!! This is just the way our instructor taught us back in the 60's. And also, the way an old railroad blacksmith, back in the 70's, built up the teeth on an old obsolete hand brake gear . Building up bronze takes a delicate skill of balancing the heat. If you have too much heat on one side, the bronze will sag and run off the other side. You have to have the right temp as you fill in the gap, or it will just run out. If more heat had of been used, as some suggest, it wouldn't have worked. This video shows the correct way to braze.
@@VintageMachinery Hey Keith (or anyone else that is knowledgeable), regarding the flux you are using. Are you just dipping the rod into the dry crystals or did you mix the flux with water first? Thanks!
Nice video giving that old plane a new lease on life! Glad to see you back Keith, I can't wait for the freezing weather to be over here so i can get back to pouring concrete on my shop.
Hello Keith your the man that would tackle anything no matter what comes through the door or the mail ,,,,,,you proved yourself you can do it looking forward on your next project
when parts comes apart at crack level, an easy way to repair is to clean the fracture fascia without disturbing it, spread a coat of flux on the fascia of the fracture, squeeze parts together and braze with EasyFlo 45, this leaves a small line at the fracture and the brazes part needs almost no touch-up to bring back in service. I use this technique on mechanical parts with a good success for decades
oh man watching this just made me have a serious braze craving. ive done tons of cast brazing on antique stoves during restoration its one of my favorite parts.
Nice job Keith! I have done lots of cast repairs with very good success. You are correct! Getting good at brazing is a lot like getting to Carnegie Hall, practice practice practice!
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org I've also just bought a better torch as a result of your tutorial - I realised a lot of the trouble I was having was down to lack of temperature...!
Howdy! Thanks for the video. Like you, I learned to braze in a high school metal shop class. My teacher was a stickler for technique and brazing was his specialty. When I see brazing videos on the Internet (like this one) I think to myself 'Mr. Grizwald would have failed them on technique and appearance!' We had to heat the joint so the brazing rod could melt and flow into the joint without the torch on it. And 1/8" over coverage is all we were allowed. I haven't tried brazing since then (1984) because I use to think of it as a hassle. But after seeing you and many other 'pros' on the Internet demonstrating your 'awful' brazing techniques it gives me hope that a mere mortal such as myself may be able to pull off a successful braze job in a pinch. Thanks for the inspiration and education.
I use to do a lot of exhaust manifold repair / cracked / broken , missing parts . I knew about the specialized process of preheating - welding with nickel - and slow cooling in oven [ the main thing I found was that preheating & slow cooling was to keep the cast iron from heat-stress-cracking , heating too fast and especially cooling off too fast . What I found that worked very well , using mig welding with standard steel wire and adjusting the power to keep from heating up the base / part - putting most of the heat in the wire [ which means welding very fast ] as soon as the welding done [ on big jobs - long time with welder , do the welding in short steps ] then through insulating blanket over work - too cool slow ' Fast cooling with lots of heat in piece would get very fine & many heat stress cracks . Many of these manifolds came back months or years late when other areas did the same and the 1st repair was still good . Sometimes just trying to do what we are told we can not do is rewarding ;)
Thanks for repairing the pieces for me Keith! Once I get them back and cleaned up, and the rest of the plane clean, I'll be sure to send you some pictures.
There's a special jig i use... it's called threaded block and some hold down bolts. You guys are great. I'm not really a ball buster. At least that's what my friends would say, if I had any.
ok. i thought for sure the end was going to fall off as the heat built up while trying to braze the bottom. great job. wow everyone's a critic, he was successful what more do you want !! great job.
Enjoyed...great discussion/instruction....I did my first CI repair the other day using Tig, very small part and I will say it was very easy to control the application of the filler metal/heat
Im a retired welder over 35 years, and you are right you can't just use hard wire in a mig or 7018 that's a no , you wanna use brazing rods , nickel rods , SS cast iron rods etc. There's quite a few , the reason cast iron is so hard to deal with is the stretching and bending is only at a 2 to 4 percent when applying heat to it , unlike mild steel has a 50 or better stretching, bending warping point , not to mention cast is dirty anyway .....but warm the cast up pretty good before welding the crack , just let it flow slowly , lot of people try to get in a hurry with cast and it just want happen , patience is key when welding cast ....clean the area and bevel the area clamp it down good cause it will warp ....
Big Ralph, I appreciated your additional notes. I tried a similar project and took both yours and Keith's advice from his video. Thanks to you both. Francisco, exactly what point are you trying to make other than to make yourself look stupid? BR is just adding (in a very gentlemanly way) some insight. We can all learn from each other, and I for one very much appreciate that this opportunity and these guys take the time that they do to explain and demonstrate their craft. Rather than being critical perhaps add constructively to the conversation. Should you choose otherwise, or rather, be unable to do so, then I would respectfully ask that you go elsewhere with the negative comments, this area is for the "grown ups". Regards gentlemen.
I like to use the 10% Nickel rod (SifBronze No.2) as it has a wide plastic temperature range and you can build it up quite easily. I used to do quite a lot of tube frame work using that rod and a gasfluxer.
I find brazing works a lot better for me as well. I have used ni- 99 some times it works. other times well you all know the sound that no one wants to here. So i favor brazing over welding. Maybe a tig might work or a mig , I stand with Keith on brazing cast iron. Just saying. Nice job Keith, Also thanks for showing.
Agree with everything you said. Just wanted to add I have done some TIG on small items using Aluminum Bronze rod with good results. TIG - AC due to the Aluminum and clean, very clean!
Thank you for sharing the knowledge sir! It would have been nice to see the finish product, a side by side comparison, before and after would have been really nice, heck, I wouldn’t mind watching you grind those suckers down. I learn faster by watching, that’s all. Thank you again!
Keith, Nice job of brazing. Like you, I prefer to add the flux to the rod. The prefluxed rods are sort of fragile. It doesn't take much of a bump to knock off the flux. I did a lot of gas welding and brazing back in the early '60s when I was a lad. I couldn't arc weld to save my soul! The nice thing about gas welding is you can reflow your errors and no one's the wiser! Thanks for the great video. With spring coming on, I would imagine you will be down at the museum more and complete the Vance planer-matcher. I look forward to that and other restoration projects! Have a good one! Dave
Just what I needed! Very informative right before I start brazing back a broken bearing seat. 🤞 my MAPP gas setup will be hot enough to do the job. I don’t currently own oxy unfortunately. Greg
I have a cast iron table saw bracket that I was going to try and weld but I think now I try and braze it instead? How you didn't drop an "F" bomb when the part slipped out of the clamp shows that you are not only a more skilled craftsman than be but have a much better temperament...Damn I dropped the "F" just watching the vajayo! Nice job!!!!!
I'm not an expert, but I did my share of brazing. I used to braze in patch panels before I got a Mig setup. Did my share of stick welding cast iron too with mixed results. I found brazing to be the most successful way to repair cast iron especially if the results don't have to be aesthetically original looking. I used both bare rod and flux coated and find the flux coated easier to work with. Matter of preference, you need to do it a while before you figure out what you like better. I can gas weld, stick weld, mig and tig weld, but find as technology advances you go with it. Never gas weld anymore, a little stick, mostly Mig and Tig.
Hi Keith great job on this one i only have one criticism and a solution , when you've heated the object with the torch you feed the rod in with your left hand . if at that point you change hands you will have much better control of your heat/rod feed rate and will improve your brazing ability 20-30% i had the same problem because i favour my right hand and it was pointed out to me by a master of welding and brazing ...... keep up the good work . Alf .....
How would it work if you didn't grind anything off, but just coated both surfaces of the break with brazing material, then pressed the break together while heating the joint? Wouldn't that be a cleaner joint, just as strong?
To cool a brazed part slowly, try burying it in silica sand or powdered limestone. I do agree with some that it appeared to me that you used to much heat.( A neutral flame yields higher strength) A good tip is that the filler metal follows the heat.
Thanks for the video. As opposed to some here I have only a small amount of skill at brazing. Your method has the appeal of reduced likely hood of damaging the CI. Like many things getting the work clean and getting a good "wetting" action are probably the 2 most important. The big V helps on getting the surfaces clean. There are brazing rods that have better "flow" so you can work with smaller clearances. I can see the value of using a soft flame on CI.
Kieth - Great intro to brazing. I would like to add two things which may help. 1) The brazing joint has something like a 90,000 lb bond so breakage is unlikely if treated with respect. 2) Covering the parts both during and after, particularly cast pieces, with a welding blanket will slow the cooling process and prevent joint failure and new cracks from forming.
If memory serves me correct, if you had access to TIG, you could TIG braze the pieces using ERCuSi-A Silicon Bronze rod. It would require preheating to 600° and controlled cooling but might offer less contraction stress than welding. Just a thought.
Great set-up! Wouldn’t Sta-Silv or Safety-Silv have worked in this case? There would have been less removal of the parent metal necessary and less filler rod used as well. There would have been a stronger repair as well!
Great video. That was a very nice repair. I thought expansion might give you a problem on that first part and sure enough it did. back in the 70's I had a vise that broke near the base. I welded it up and it is still with me. I thought at the time it was cast iron but it is probably cast steel. Thanks for the video.
In this case, that's called dumb luck :-) If you look closely, you'll see that the bronze he's trying to add to the bottom is flowing right through the seam and building up drips on the (downward facing) top. This is why he had so much trouble building up the 2nd side. It only held together at all, because of the heat-break created by the hole in the casting. This let the other side stay below melting, and hold the joint together. It is actually possible, with some practice, to heat just the surface that you're working on up to the melting point, get new bronze on top of it, and get back out again before the whole joint turns to liquid. Somewhat counterintuitively, doing this requires running a hot flame and going at it aggressively quickly, so that the working surface melts before the heat has time to permeate the joint. What Keith did - heating the whole thing up slowly - "feels" safer, but actually makes it really hard to control the joint. Until you've practiced a lot, the technique that actually works, "feels" really reckless!
I had a feeling that the part would expand and buckle! But, in the end, you were successful! My friend repairs racing engine blocks. He has a special oven that heats the block until it is glowing (and the electric meter spinning)! Then he uses some eutectic rod and a TIG to glue it together. Cast iron is tricky!
Nathan Dean Maybe could use natural gas or propane: would work. But, his oven is specifically made for heating very expensive racing engine blocks (aluminum and steel/iron) or rare engine blocks. He even has cut v-8s apart and made Frankenstein small blocks. He chose electric heating to reduce contamination and can even seal the oven and fill with inert gas. An old electric oven can be modified to accomplish the same results... just on a smaller scale.
Try a fine fire brick that is somewhat square and flat for retaining under heat, maybe diamond wheel cut some vee cuts for round work. Great job I think..takes me back to my machine building days ..some with commercial aviation ...tolerances so tight you could scale the prints!
John Hardy thank you for pointing out how things are properly called, but I was compairing physical processes happening in both brazing and soldering. And they are pretty much the same, besides higher melting temperature of filler material.
Certanium 889 stick rod. I always preheat cast. I have used it with TIG by knocking the flux off. I've seen it listed on eBay It would be worth your time to try it. It is also very easy to machine.
+Richard Haisley I just have not had much luck with any stick welding on cast iron. TIG works fine on smaller items like this, but I don't currently have access to TIG. Larger cast iron items I prefer brazing over TIG as you can spread the heat out better with the torch.
Hi Keith, With all the kind of brazing materials that exist, you can join just about anything to what ever, beyond that, there is always Crazy Glue... lol Pierre
I try to heat the difficult parts first and the easy parts tend to take care of themselves. I guess you cannot get the steel block too hot without brazing your work to it as well, ROFL. I haven’t tried this on a firebrick or a nest of firebrick (to limit radiation and convection losses), but I have seen videos. Hmmm, a tunnel of firebrick with a space to braze comfortably might work. I like fluxing the rod too. Nice job!
I like you. You sound like FOLKS. ;-) Thanks for the video and the work you put into it. And mostly the experience and knowledge you impart. Of the big four (or five ... or six) machinist youtubers, you are by a sight the best TEACHER. I do, however, recommend thatlazymachist to curious onlookers. He's not fun to listen to and speaks some kind of moon language type canadian, but he's an adept metallurgist and can also teach. This goes for you too, Keith!
+MrJgstoner Thanks for the kind words. As for "That Lazy Machinist", I have to admit to watching his channel myself as he does a great job of teaching!
Is there a reason you used a solid piece of steel on the bottom to support the piece, instead of something like box steel that would not act as a heat sink quite as bad. It appeared to take a long time to get the part to the correct temperature.
Nice brazing repair Keith! Very informative too. Would you have any interest in a Miller Syncrowave 250? I know where one is and can probably be bought at a very fair price. Would make a good addition to the Museum. Let me know and I'll get some more info. Adam
why not brazing paste? brush and flux busted edge, paint on brazing paste, wire/clamp to position. heat, tighten clamps when fluid, let cool. no need for notching or grooving, perfect alignment, and stronger than a stick joint usually. H&R used it for the hinge/lock blacks on single barrel shotgun barrels, (you can see the line of braze in the blue job), so it really can't be "weak"... probably would have been just the ticket for that sleeve repair in the loco cylinder head too. i can dig that some jobs just don't lend themselves to such materials, but those "on the bench, at my leisure" type ones seem to cry out for its use
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That was a satisfactory job on the brazing but I can't help myself.
I'm not looking to criticize but I wanted to share some of my experience in the hopes that we all learn how to improve our skills. I learned to braze from a master back in the late 90's and he was really good at explaining the science of metal bonding (ionic bonds) and how different materials react to different temperatures and how to apply the torch flame to achieve optimal temps. He taught me that the "secret" to good brazing is to recognize how the materials involved behave and react when your materials and flame temps are in the "green zone".
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I noticed that you had your torch set too cold and you were applying the flame from too far away during the brazing work.
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The torch flame has two parts, the "feather" and the "needle" (as I learned to call them), the feather being the transparent blue long and wide part of the flame and the much hotter short blue-white opaque "needle" in the center.
The needle is the real working part of the flame for the actual brazing part of the work.
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A lot of guys call it a "neutral flame" when the needle is about a quarter inch long and you get more of a "whoosh" sound from the torch and they call it a "carbonizing flame" when a little bit more acetylene is added in to make that needle flare out to about a half inch long and you get more of a "hiss" sound. I would have used the torch as it was set in this video if I were brazing something like copper tubing joints or plumbing joints. For the work in the video, I would go much hotter.
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The feather of a neutral flame is fine for the preheat work but when you do the actual brazing (the part where you actually melt the rod in to the gap), you want to be using the heat projecting directly from the tip of the needle for that. That much hotter part of the flame will more quickly melt the rod and allow it to flow like water in to the gap. If the flow of the metal from the rod looks and feels more like maple syrup or pudding than watery, that's a good indicator that you're too cold or too far away. Most of the time it is best to push the tip of the rod in rather than lay the side of the rod down.
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You don't want the metal parts being bonded to do the melting of the rod, you want the flame to melt the rod. Ensuring that you apply the rod/heat in that manner, you avoid most of the "clumped and humped" metal around the joint and it's much more efficient, makes a stronger bond, and it really cuts down on the clean up part of the job.
When the material on both sides of the gap is sufficiently hot, and you are putting the needle to the rod, that rod metal will naturally flow in and cling to the sides of the gap through capillary action and when your material temps are hot enough, very little flux is necessary. In fact, over fluxing the joint can weaken it if you aren't careful.
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When you set your flame for this type of brazing work, in the future, I'd listen for a little more "hiss" and little less "whoosh". I would have set the needle to be "carbonizing" at about a half inch long, with a sharp point, for the work you were doing and apply the flame to the rod/joint so that the needle tip is about an inch from the rod/joint (much closer than you were applying the flame in the video) with very short, quick, tight sweeps of the flame.
That will get the temps up to where you need them for a "watery" flow and a very strong ionic bond that creates a very clean and efficient joint. It even uses less rod, less flux, and less time.
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As I said, I'm not looking to talk down to anyone, I just hope to make everyone better at the task. Hope this info helps someone. Take it or leave it as you see fit.
Best of luck to all.
+BigRalphSmith That was really helpful, thank you!
+BigRalphSmith Keith is not an expert at everything he does, I have heard him say things along that line several times. However he has a tremendous can do attitude, and I think he is a really great guy for taking the time to post his videos to help the hobbyist learn how to do jobs. That also prompts discussion and comments from genuine experts and tradesman like yourself who add valuable contributions.
iiredeye iiredeye
I love watching Keith do his thing. He's far more knowledgeable and skilled in machining than I will ever be.
He does an admirable job even in those areas where he freely admits a lack of knowledge or experience and any information that I feel might help him out is worth sharing. Not just for his benefit but for anyone who might be able to benefit from the experiences of other tradesmen or craftsmen.
Probably the thing I like most about his stuff is that he's willing to make mistakes and show those mistakes to everyone. That makes all of us better at what we do in the end.
+BigRalphSmith I noticed he used a whole bunch of flux (at least, to my noob eyes it looked like alot). I've seen others use a very small amount. How much flux to you need really? Does it vary depending on the type of metal or do you usually only want a thin coat?
"You don't want the metal parts being bonded to do the melting of the rod, you want the flame to melt the rod." -Don't you melt the rod with the flame with certain rod (like lower melting point rod; i've heard you do for things like copper pipe)? Also, if you are melting the rod with the flame, how do you know how hot the part needs to be if you are melting the rod with the flame? Are you basically looking for the part and the rod to be the same temperature?
Finally, is there a universal "rule" about any technique or do all techniques need to be specific to the metal/rod combo you are working with?
I've just been introduced to brazing and am really excited about not needing to go purchase a full welding setup for the little bit of hobby stuff/home repairs I need it for. Thanks for taking the time to do this write up.
F!@#Guilt
I'll try to give you the best answers I can but I don't claim to be an expert. All I can claim to be is a good, experienced welder (and even that claim is up for debate or challenge because, in the end, that's just my opinion and the opinion of some others I've worked for and with).
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On the question of flux amounts, I find that, if your temperatures are right and your parts are hot enough and you are using the right rods and have the torch set correctly, you will need far less flux than if any of those things are off no matter what material you are joining or rod type you are using.
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On the next question, you learn how the filler metal behaves when your temps are right and when they are wrong.
The metal from the rod will readily flow toward and adhere to the parts if the parts temps are in the zone.
It will glob up like chewing gum when they are too cold.
It will run right past the parts like water if they are too hot.
It's almost like how the surface tension of water works. It's difficult to put in to words.
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The only truly "universal" rule I know of is, eventually, there is no rule that you are never going to need to break on occasion except those that are safety related. Safety rules are genuinely universal. All others, we'd like to think they are but the reality is, not so much.
Brazing, like welding of all other types is as much an art as it is a skill and there's only one way to perfect your skill; experience and practice.
In the end, the more you do it, the better you get.
There's no short cut. Some catch on faster than others. Hope you get the chance to work with a good teacher as I did.
Can't tell you how good it was to hear that intro music again! Glad you're back, Keith!
Haven't brazed in 27 years, but I'm still a fan of it. I learned to repair a diesel fuel tank the first time I brazed, did it right the first time.... made me grin from ear to ear :-)
Brazing is good for a lot of things.
hey Keith, I just did my first brazing repair on cast iron and thanks to your video it turned out great. luckily I remembered watching this video and when the job came up I was able to pull it up on my phone and work along a great teacher. thanks
+Dj C I am glad that you had great success! Thanks for watching!
Keith, your vids are single handedly walking me through the entire process of restoring my 1890 Edwin Harrington engine lathe. Every time i discover a new problem i come check the channel for a video on how to address it. THANK YOU!
We got some knowledgeable commenters here. This was cool.
Learning a lot from both sides. Why didn't i use you tube when I was younger? 40 years ago.
You are very skilled ! Nice work sir.
+GTR MAN Thank you!
Excellent. I love brazing. Many thanks, Keith.
Excellent job!! This is just the way our instructor taught us back in the 60's. And also, the way an old railroad blacksmith, back in the 70's, built up the teeth on an old obsolete hand brake gear . Building up bronze takes a delicate skill of balancing the heat. If you have too much heat on one side, the bronze will sag and run off the other side. You have to have the right temp as you fill in the gap, or it will just run out. If more heat had of been used, as some suggest, it wouldn't have worked. This video shows the correct way to braze.
Thanks Ronnie - I know that you are correct because I have melted a lot of braze out trying to hurry things up.....
@@VintageMachinery Hey Keith (or anyone else that is knowledgeable), regarding the flux you are using. Are you just dipping the rod into the dry crystals or did you mix the flux with water first? Thanks!
Nicely done, sir. The perfect application for a braze repair.
Nice video giving that old plane a new lease on life! Glad to see you back Keith, I can't wait for the freezing weather to be over here so i can get back to pouring concrete on my shop.
Hello Keith your the man that would tackle anything no matter what comes through the door or the mail ,,,,,,you proved yourself you can do it looking forward on your next project
Salvatore joseph Thanks - sometimes I should probably be afraid to take on a project, but I usually just do it anyway....
Hey Keith,
Nice repair and great tutorial on welding cast iron!
Thanks for sharing!
Ray
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge I learn something new every time I watch your work
the bird sound effects are awesome - what a great place to work!
Well demonstrated and explained. Thank you.
when parts comes apart at crack level, an easy way to repair is to clean the fracture fascia without disturbing it, spread a coat of flux on the fascia of the fracture, squeeze parts together and braze with EasyFlo 45, this leaves a small line at the fracture and the brazes part needs almost no touch-up to bring back in service.
I use this technique on mechanical parts with a good success for decades
Easy Flo 45 contains cadmium. There's no way I'm putting that on a hand tool.
Thanks for doing this vid. Very useful for us noobs not experienced in this type metal joinery.
+F!@#Guilt My pleasure!
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Hello, Just wanted to say I really like silver soldering for stuff like that.
oh man watching this just made me have a serious braze craving. ive done tons of cast brazing on antique stoves during restoration its one of my favorite parts.
I really appreciate all these videos. I have learned so much
Nice job Keith! I have done lots of cast repairs with very good success. You are correct! Getting good at brazing is a lot like getting to Carnegie Hall, practice practice practice!
its good to see you and mr fenner reviving the art of brazing
i used to braze a lot on cars till the changed the laws here in the
uk
cant use it on car body work like floors and inner wings
Just curious, - why can't you braze car parts in the UK now?.
Very cool and informative video. Thank you
Did my first project after watching your work .applied what I learned, project came out perfect . You are the best!!
Tks.
I really have learned a lot from you. Thank you taking time to explain the job you are doing.
Thank you very much.
Edward Smith.
I love the setup on that second piece. Good engineering.
keith you awesome. your using what you have it works keep up the good work
+Brandon McConnell Thanks Brandon!
Thanks for this keith - helped me out of a tight spot on a repair I was doing yesterday :)
+Adrian Hamilton My pleasure! I am glad you found it helpful!
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org I've also just bought a better torch as a result of your tutorial - I realised a lot of the trouble I was having was down to lack of temperature...!
Howdy! Thanks for the video. Like you, I learned to braze in a high school metal shop class. My teacher was a stickler for technique and brazing was his specialty. When I see brazing videos on the Internet (like this one) I think to myself 'Mr. Grizwald would have failed them on technique and appearance!' We had to heat the joint so the brazing rod could melt and flow into the joint without the torch on it. And 1/8" over coverage is all we were allowed. I haven't tried brazing since then (1984) because I use to think of it as a hassle. But after seeing you and many other 'pros' on the Internet demonstrating your 'awful' brazing techniques it gives me hope that a mere mortal such as myself may be able to pull off a successful braze job in a pinch. Thanks for the inspiration and education.
I use to do a lot of exhaust manifold repair / cracked / broken , missing parts .
I knew about the specialized process of preheating - welding with nickel - and slow cooling in oven [ the main thing I found was that preheating & slow cooling was to keep the cast iron from heat-stress-cracking , heating too fast and especially cooling off too fast .
What I found that worked very well , using mig welding with standard steel wire and adjusting the power to keep from heating up the base / part - putting most of the heat in the wire [ which means welding very fast ] as soon as the welding done [ on big jobs - long time with welder , do the welding in short steps ] then through insulating blanket over work - too cool slow '
Fast cooling with lots of heat in piece would get very fine & many heat stress cracks .
Many of these manifolds came back months or years late when other areas did the same and the 1st repair was still good .
Sometimes just trying to do what we are told we can not do is rewarding ;)
Thanks for repairing the pieces for me Keith! Once I get them back and cleaned up, and the rest of the plane clean, I'll be sure to send you some pictures.
He's back! Glad to see a new video!
There's a special jig i use... it's called threaded block and some hold down bolts. You guys are great. I'm not really a ball buster. At least that's what my friends would say, if I had any.
Good work Keith,
And thanks guys for all of the great comments.
I realy like using the heat indicating crayons as I am crap at guessing heat colors
ok. i thought for sure the end was going to fall off as the heat built up while trying to braze the bottom.
great job. wow everyone's a critic, he was successful what more do you want !!
great job.
Enjoyed...great discussion/instruction....I did my first CI repair the other day using Tig, very small part and I will say it was very easy to control the application of the filler metal/heat
Great tutorial Keith - many thanks!
Another great video Keith! Thanks for sharing!
Nice work Keith . Enjoyed !
Very nice clean job Keith !
Im a retired welder over 35 years, and you are right you can't just use hard wire in a mig or 7018 that's a no , you wanna use brazing rods , nickel rods , SS cast iron rods etc. There's quite a few , the reason cast iron is so hard to deal with is the stretching and bending is only at a 2 to 4 percent when applying heat to it , unlike mild steel has a 50 or better stretching, bending warping point , not to mention cast is dirty anyway .....but warm the cast up pretty good before welding the crack , just let it flow slowly , lot of people try to get in a hurry with cast and it just want happen , patience is key when welding cast ....clean the area and bevel the area clamp it down good cause it will warp ....
Big Ralph, I appreciated your additional notes. I tried a similar project and took both yours and Keith's advice from his video. Thanks to you both. Francisco, exactly what point are you trying to make other than to make yourself look stupid? BR is just adding (in a very gentlemanly way) some insight. We can all learn from each other, and I for one very much appreciate that this opportunity and these guys take the time that they do to explain and demonstrate their craft. Rather than being critical perhaps add constructively to the conversation. Should you choose otherwise, or rather, be unable to do so, then I would respectfully ask that you go elsewhere with the negative comments, this area is for the "grown ups". Regards gentlemen.
Very nice lighting on the video. Well done!
beautiful video of the process. explained masterfully. i really enjoyed that! thank you
Thank you!
This guy is in love with the sound of his voice. Detrimental to the overall effect.
I like to use the 10% Nickel rod (SifBronze No.2) as it has a wide plastic temperature range and you can build it up quite easily. I used to do quite a lot of tube frame work using that rod and a gasfluxer.
Great video again Keith.
I find brazing works a lot better for me as well. I have used ni- 99 some times it works. other times well you all know the sound that no one wants to here. So i favor brazing over welding. Maybe a tig might work or a mig , I stand with Keith on brazing cast iron. Just saying. Nice job Keith, Also thanks for showing.
I tried to take a drink every time you said "Uhhhh."
I died.
Agree with everything you said. Just wanted to add I have done some TIG on small items using Aluminum Bronze rod with good results. TIG - AC due to the Aluminum and clean, very clean!
Loved your videos. Thank you
Thank you for sharing the knowledge sir! It would have been nice to see the finish product, a side by side comparison, before and after would have been really nice, heck, I wouldn’t mind watching you grind those suckers down. I learn faster by watching, that’s all. Thank you again!
Keith
I'm glad to see your back at it. Keep up the good work, PS Braydon says Hello Mr Keith
Very informative and very professional. Thanks!
Joseph Stokes Thanks!
Keith,
Nice job of brazing. Like you, I prefer to add the flux to the rod. The prefluxed rods are sort of fragile. It doesn't take much of a bump to knock off the flux. I did a lot of gas welding and brazing back in the early '60s when I was a lad. I couldn't arc weld to save my soul! The nice thing about gas welding is you can reflow your errors and no one's the wiser! Thanks for the great video. With spring coming on, I would imagine you will be down at the museum more and complete the Vance planer-matcher. I look forward to that and other restoration projects!
Have a good one!
Dave
If he sends you any pictures of the finished product will you be sharing them with us? You cant just leave us hanging Keith!
Just what I needed! Very informative right before I start brazing back a broken bearing seat. 🤞 my MAPP gas setup will be hot enough to do the job. I don’t currently own oxy unfortunately.
Greg
I have a cast iron table saw bracket that I was going to try and weld but I think now I try and braze it instead? How you didn't drop an "F" bomb when the part slipped out of the clamp shows that you are not only a more skilled craftsman than be but have a much better temperament...Damn I dropped the "F" just watching the vajayo! Nice job!!!!!
I'm not an expert, but I did my share of brazing. I used to braze in patch panels before I got a Mig setup. Did my share of stick welding cast iron too with mixed results. I found brazing to be the most successful way to repair cast iron especially if the results don't have to be aesthetically original looking. I used both bare rod and flux coated and find the flux coated easier to work with. Matter of preference, you need to do it a while before you figure out what you like better. I can gas weld, stick weld, mig and tig weld, but find as technology advances you go with it. Never gas weld anymore, a little stick, mostly Mig and Tig.
Great video man I learned a lot.
Hi Keith great job on this one i only have one criticism and a solution , when you've heated the object with the torch you feed the rod in with your left hand . if at that point you change hands you will have much better control of your heat/rod feed rate and will improve your brazing ability 20-30% i had the same problem because i favour my right hand and it was pointed out to me by a master of welding and brazing ...... keep up the good work .
Alf .....
How would it work if you didn't grind anything off, but just coated both surfaces of the break with brazing material, then pressed the break together while heating the joint? Wouldn't that be a cleaner joint, just as strong?
Very nice video... BUT had like to see the job finished, ready for deliver back to the costumer as ONE finish grinded part, ready to reinstall.
To cool a brazed part slowly, try burying it in silica sand or powdered limestone.
I do agree with some that it appeared to me that you used to much heat.( A neutral flame yields higher strength) A good tip is that the filler metal follows the heat.
The accetilyn was strong pressure.
That looks really tricky! good job on the repair though!
enjoying all your videos ! nyc job man . Zimbabwe
Thanks for the video. As opposed to some here I have only a small amount of skill at brazing. Your method has the appeal of reduced likely hood of damaging the CI. Like many things getting the work clean and getting a good "wetting" action are probably the 2 most important. The big V helps on getting the surfaces clean. There are brazing rods that have better "flow" so you can work with smaller clearances. I can see the value of using a soft flame on CI.
Kieth - Great intro to brazing. I would like to add two things which may help. 1) The brazing joint has something like a 90,000 lb bond so breakage is unlikely if treated with respect. 2) Covering the parts both during and after, particularly cast pieces, with a welding blanket will slow the cooling process and prevent joint failure and new cracks from forming.
nice work, thanks for the video.
amazing skills...
What about using a copper backing rather than steel?
If memory serves me correct, if you had access to TIG, you could TIG braze the pieces using ERCuSi-A Silicon Bronze rod. It would require preheating to 600° and controlled cooling but might offer less contraction stress than welding. Just a thought.
love the bird sounds
Great set-up! Wouldn’t Sta-Silv or Safety-Silv have worked in this case?
There would have been less removal of the parent metal necessary and less filler rod used as well. There would have been a stronger repair as well!
Nice job
Great video. That was a very nice repair. I thought expansion might give you a problem on that first part and sure enough it did. back in the 70's I had a vise that broke near the base. I welded it up and it is still with me. I thought at the time it was cast iron but it is probably cast steel. Thanks for the video.
Brazing is an art most people are not artist you suck at gas brazing
Thanks Keith!!
Looks good boss. Brazing is becoming a lost art.
Never having done this before, I am curious how you can apply such heat to do the underside and not melt the work you did on the topside?
In this case, that's called dumb luck :-) If you look closely, you'll see that the bronze he's trying to add to the bottom is flowing right through the seam and building up drips on the (downward facing) top. This is why he had so much trouble building up the 2nd side. It only held together at all, because of the heat-break created by the hole in the casting. This let the other side stay below melting, and hold the joint together.
It is actually possible, with some practice, to heat just the surface that you're working on up to the melting point, get new bronze on top of it, and get back out again before the whole joint turns to liquid. Somewhat counterintuitively, doing this requires running a hot flame and going at it aggressively quickly, so that the working surface melts before the heat has time to permeate the joint. What Keith did - heating the whole thing up slowly - "feels" safer, but actually makes it really hard to control the joint. Until you've practiced a lot, the technique that actually works, "feels" really reckless!
I had a feeling that the part would expand and buckle! But, in the end, you were successful! My friend repairs racing engine blocks. He has a special oven that heats the block until it is glowing (and the electric meter spinning)! Then he uses some eutectic rod and a TIG to glue it together. Cast iron is tricky!
WAVETUBE84 could look in to getting a propane fueled stove then.
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Nathan Dean Maybe could use natural gas or propane: would work. But, his oven is specifically made for heating very expensive racing engine blocks (aluminum and steel/iron) or rare engine blocks. He even has cut v-8s apart and made Frankenstein small blocks. He chose electric heating to reduce contamination and can even seal the oven and fill with inert gas. An old electric oven can be modified to accomplish the same results... just on a smaller scale.
good to know. by the way how would that work with the new plastic engines that are being proto'ed now in japan/
Very good vid, I prefer the torch over Tig,
Old school.
nicely done ,,,tomorrow i will give it ago ,,,
Try a fine fire brick that is somewhat square and flat for retaining under heat, maybe diamond wheel cut some vee cuts for round work. Great job I think..takes me back to my machine building days ..some with commercial aviation ...tolerances so tight you could scale the prints!
Loved your vid plus the stuff ups! That’s me to a T. I hope to hell thatBigralph is still around,,cos his knowledge is invaluable, John from Oz
So this is basically soldering iron together with bronze rod. Amazing, didn't know you can do that.
Григорий Олянин pretty much
Григорий Олянин
***** i know what it is. Lol im a certified welder
Okay hot shot lol you can compare sodering to brazing. Dont get so fucking mad kid.
John Hardy thank you for pointing out how things are properly called, but I was compairing physical processes happening in both brazing and soldering. And they are pretty much the same, besides higher melting temperature of filler material.
Pretty calm guy. You wouldn't be able to see in my shop if that happened to me, air would be crackling blue.
U R HEATING A LOT !
hi, very good
Certanium 889 stick rod. I always preheat cast. I have used it with TIG by knocking the flux off. I've seen it listed on eBay It would be worth your time to try it. It is also very easy to machine.
+Richard Haisley I just have not had much luck with any stick welding on cast iron. TIG works fine on smaller items like this, but I don't currently have access to TIG. Larger cast iron items I prefer brazing over TIG as you can spread the heat out better with the torch.
Good job young man and I agree with you if you need a temp stick you should not be brazing !
Great informative video Keith...i just subscribed. Thank you, Jon
Jon Gene Thank you Jon - glad to have you hanging out with us in the shop!
Hi Keith,
With all the kind of brazing materials that exist, you can join just about anything to what ever, beyond that, there is always Crazy Glue... lol
Pierre
I've stick welded cast before, but it's more hassle getting it right.
And it was just a fire grate so didn't matter too much.
I try to heat the difficult parts first and the easy parts tend to take care of themselves. I guess you cannot get the steel block too hot without brazing your work to it as well, ROFL. I haven’t tried this on a firebrick or a nest of firebrick (to limit radiation and convection losses), but I have seen videos. Hmmm, a tunnel of firebrick with a space to braze comfortably might work. I like fluxing the rod too.
Nice job!
I like you. You sound like FOLKS. ;-)
Thanks for the video and the work you put into it. And mostly the experience and knowledge you impart.
Of the big four (or five ... or six) machinist youtubers, you are by a sight the best TEACHER.
I do, however, recommend thatlazymachist to curious onlookers. He's not fun to listen to and speaks some kind of moon language type canadian, but he's an adept metallurgist and can also teach.
This goes for you too, Keith!
+MrJgstoner Thanks for the kind words. As for "That Lazy Machinist", I have to admit to watching his channel myself as he does a great job of teaching!
Are ceramic blocks available for set up so that you don't have the problem of a metal "heat sink?"
I have some now but I did not when I shot that video. Make do with what you have!
Is there a reason you used a solid piece of steel on the bottom to support the piece, instead of something like box steel that would not act as a heat sink quite as bad. It appeared to take a long time to get the part to the correct temperature.
+Michael Belew That was just what we had. It took a bit more heat, but no problem.
Nice brazing repair Keith! Very informative too.
Would you have any interest in a Miller Syncrowave 250? I know where one is and can probably be bought at a very fair price. Would make a good addition to the Museum. Let me know and I'll get some more info.
Adam
like that homemade apron
why not brazing paste? brush and flux busted edge, paint on brazing paste, wire/clamp to position. heat, tighten clamps when fluid, let cool. no need for notching or grooving, perfect alignment, and stronger than a stick joint usually. H&R used it for the hinge/lock blacks on single barrel shotgun barrels, (you can see the line of braze in the blue job), so it really can't be "weak"... probably would have been just the ticket for that sleeve repair in the loco cylinder head too. i can dig that some jobs just don't lend themselves to such materials, but those "on the bench, at my leisure" type ones seem to cry out for its use