Wow Kieth. That braze looks so much better than when you did the braze repair on the vise, it shows you are getting more comfortable with your machine. I have a repair on a follower rest but can’t decide on torch vrs tig. Thanks for the video. JB San Diego
I've used the TIG welder on cast iron with 99% nickel rod. The TIG torch gives really precise control. I preheated the parts and controlled the cooling.
For small cast iron parts like this, I use the propane burner from my turkey fryer to preheat the part so it's easier to TIG braze. Afterwards I quickly peen the brass/bronze and put it back on the burner, reheat, then wrap in the fiberglass blanket to cool slowly. You can also successfully MIG weld small parts like this. ER70S6 is a low hydrogen wire that works well. Pre heat, MIG it hot and fast, peen, post heat, and wrap. I did it on a Wilton bullet vise repair.
Nice job, Keith. If you ever need to match a cast iron look after grinding smooth, when you primer it, while the primer is still wet, sprinkle a little glass bead from your blast cabinet on it. After painting it is a perfect match for the sand texture of a casting.
I've never heard of TIG brazing until I started watching your videos. It looks like a much neater and more controllable process. I wonder if you've ever considered silver soldering cast iron. My neighbor had a hit and miss engine that was literally broken in pieces. He soldered it back together and I'll be switched if it didn't work. He explained that the solder has a greater tensile strength than cast iron and as long as you kept the water jacket full, it wouldn't get hot enough to melt the solder.
Great video Keith, this is vintage machinery. It's good seeing how you repaired the casting with the tig torch with the argon or helium instead of the acetylene torch and flux.
I thought I heard a crack watching it the first time. After you showed the crack, I went back and watched it again. A crack either formed or opened up at 6:50.
@@jonnoMoto Anyone that has spent time under a welding helmet knows that sound was from the plastic headgear creaking as Keith raised and removed his helmet. Much different than the two subtle "TINK" sounds around the 6:50 mark approximately 2 seconds apart. :-(
CPUDOCTHE1 There is a sound at 6:50 and it may be the crack shifting as Keith heats the metal. If you are interested in cracks please go to my later post begining with "@10:00" and give your opinion on the substance of my observations. I've already had a couple of plaudits defend Keith by pointing out that I have not uploaded any videos here, so a reply which actually addresses the situation would be welcome.
I've had better results by preheating my cast and using a 7014 rod. It's worth a try on your end. I fixed a transfer pump for a fuel truck in the late 90's and it was still working in 2010.
I've never done or been around tig brazing, but on cast iron, I would be concerned that the heat is too localized and much more difficult to get an even preheat on the part and would induce even more stresses into the cast. That could be where that 2nd crack came from. Flame brazing would have been the better process here in my opinion... just as you said in the beginning, tig brazing is good on thinner material, but I think this material/part was too big/heavy for tig brazing, thus the 2nd crack. But it looks like it all worked out in the end.
could this process fill a corrosion pit in a cast iron cylinder bore? Old tractor had water in cylinder for 30 years and it ate a 2 mm deep area into the cylinder at the ring line. All other bores are good except this one. No one makes a sleeve for this. I have a hone to smooth out the weld bead after its cool. Any chance?
Keith, have ye seen the vijeos that demonstrate fixing cast iron cracks with lock-n-stitch. The metal on this project was probably too thin for it, but nice to know it exists.
How do you recommend flame brazing a large piece? I have a base of a 16" South Bend lathe that needs repaired. The crack runs completely across between the bottom of the base and the opening that is covered with an additional casting. Total length of the crack is about 5 inches. Anything I should pay particular attention to durring the repair? Should I try to slow the cooling process any particular way?
Definitely should have used AC for aluminum bronze, or used DC with silicone bronze. and im not real sure why he wouldn't have wanted to fix the outside on something that will get paint.... but HEY, whatever he wants right... ALSO, should have PRE HEATED the part.... that will stop other cracks from forming. Love the videos uncle Keith!!!
Those cracks are too hard to see. Is it possible to use Magnaflux to find them? Also, that thing needs to be heated with a torch. That tig is causing too much stress on the thin structure.
At our shop we repair a lot of old cast iron parts from early farm equipment to a complete rear axel housing from a 1913 Mitchell 1 ton open housing broken into many small pieces and we always pre-heat and post-heat and wrap into a welding blanket .BUT we always peen the weld even if using bronze silicate filler rod. Haven't had a cast iron or cast steel recrack or devolve other stress related cracks .
Nah, I don't watch Kieth Fenner and I cannot remember which specific video it was that Rucker did but I seem to remember he was pressing a bearing off, and even had the foresight to wrap the thing in foil to prevent grease dripping off it. It was a funny little bit that Rucker even mentioned he only did it because his wife wasn't home.
@@jonka1 Actually I don't think that's a fair comment to make... From what I've seen Keith actually does good standards of work... With thanks Glenn GLMelectrical UK
Glenn thank you for your reply. Please continue with your observations and let us have your opinion on the actual content of my posting. For example what are your thoughts about the cracks that are undetected by Keith? Are you saying that they don't matter or that even when he misses critical details he still does a good job? He certainly thinks so.
Bob Tidy, I don't need to make a video. RUclips is full of such things showing how to braze. I also don't need to demonstrate the skills I have built up over a lifetime. Keith obviously does need to demonstrate what he knows on this public forum and as he does so he exposes himself to the opinions of his viewers. Lots of Keith's plaudits are very protective and will often reply to criticism by carefully ignoring the truth when it is pointed out and instead throw down the gauntlet of who has made the most videos here as a way of justifying Keith's shortcomings. I have one question for you, how does anything written here so far affect the unrepaired cracks remaining in the piece that Keith has partially repaired? I am genuinely interested in your reply and am still hoping that you and Glen Moreland will respond to the substance of my comment beginning with "@10:00"
Just a thought as I am not much of a welder. It would make more sense to me if you put a firebrick or similar under the cast part so the table was not sucking the heat out of the casting. Yes, I know about grounding through the table.
Nice job Keith! A couple questions. What tungsten are you using, and does it have to be sharp since you are not using the tig process in a traditional sense? I assume you are doing a preheat with the torch it self in lieu of using a oxy-acetylene torch setup. Thanks, Eric
Good job on the brazing, but I would’ve stayed away from the bondo and added some brazing on the exterior side and sanded that smooth. Love your vids!!
I would go with "strong" as I assume the machine is heavy and may vibrate which could be a recipe for heat stressed cast arn to crack again. Save the packing and box. :-)
Parts this size really need preheat. It allows you to use less amperage and lessens the risk of additional cracking. When properly applied, aluminum bronze rod should flow easily and appear bright and shiny when finished.
He doesn't want you braze the outside of the crack, for appearance purposes? If he's painting it, what does it matter? Plus it's 1" of the floor, so the difference in texture won't matter.
Obviously you can't sand, grind, cut, needle scale, or use any other process to make braze look like cast. The leg was visible enough to notice a crack, obviously you would notice a brazing patch.
@CPUDOCTHE1: You seriously need to think before you comment. Do you think Bondo looks like original cast iron?? Enough with your idol worship, regular folks make mistakes.
Wow, Keith, we must be somehow mentally connected since we saw each other at #GOTLFEST. I just last night did a brazing repair and this morning you put out a brazing repair video. Weird, but cool. Cheers, Gary
@10:00 I believe that the crack can be clearly seen extending well beyond the stop-hole. I can see it continuing on before turning south and heading for a crack migrating up to meet it from the bottom edge.. the hairline starts from slightly to the left of the tiny depression right by the edge of the foot. @10:44 it looks as if the crack can be seen at the back extending up towards a point inbetween the numbers 5&8, and out through the side of the cut out in the base. Now @12:04 with good illumination I believe the original crack continues along under the the length of the cast part number and forms a "T" with the crack desending to the bottom of the foot. I hope the person who placed his trust and his casting in Keith's hands does not regret his decision in the fullness of time.
Keith, did you test for lead paint? Anyone working with old parts needs to be careful and take the proper precautions. It doesn’t take a lot of lead paint dust in your lungs to cause serous health issues.
Ya... but tig braze requires pre heat. ... that second crack likely would not have occurred with some pre heat ... and for the no braze on the outside.... careful dressing of a braze will finish just as good as bondo and is much stronger it just takes longer to dress
Mr Pete cannot melt cast iron in his garage. Aluminum melts at around 1100 to 1200 deg. C.I. is more like 2200. I used to work in a cast iron foundry and we poured it into ladles at 2650 to get the proper flow by the time it hit the mold. Even if he could pour it the hand rammed mold would have so much tear up that it would look worse than the cracked one.
@9:12 It is obvious that the new crack coincides exactly with the valley in the raised line of braze. Given that braze material contracts powerfully and at a greater rate than the casting as it cools, this badly laid line will contract unevenly. Now add to this the fact that Keith didn't pre heat the whole casting I suggest that this second crack was most likely going to happen. Keith will not be thinking of questioning himself so that only leaves one option which is to hope that the second crack was always there. His other plan may have been to hope that nobody watching wanted to think this through. Not good.
Wow Kieth. That braze looks so much better than when you did the braze repair on the vise, it shows you are getting more comfortable with your machine. I have a repair on a follower rest but can’t decide on torch vrs tig. Thanks for the video. JB San Diego
I've used the TIG welder on cast iron with 99% nickel rod. The TIG torch gives really precise control. I preheated the parts and controlled the cooling.
For small cast iron parts like this, I use the propane burner from my turkey fryer to preheat the part so it's easier to TIG braze. Afterwards I quickly peen the brass/bronze and put it back on the burner, reheat, then wrap in the fiberglass blanket to cool slowly. You can also successfully MIG weld small parts like this. ER70S6 is a low hydrogen wire that works well. Pre heat, MIG it hot and fast, peen, post heat, and wrap. I did it on a Wilton bullet vise repair.
I enjoy your content Keith. I had a good time at the Good of the Land fest and was very happy to meet you.
Nice Job as usual Keith, It was very nice to meet you in person at the Good of the Land Fest. Thanks for all you do.
Nice job, Keith. If you ever need to match a cast iron look after grinding smooth, when you primer it, while the primer is still wet, sprinkle a little glass bead from your blast cabinet on it. After painting it is a perfect match for the sand texture of a casting.
I've never heard of TIG brazing until I started watching your videos. It looks like a much neater and more controllable process. I wonder if you've ever considered silver soldering cast iron. My neighbor had a hit and miss engine that was literally broken in pieces. He soldered it back together and I'll be switched if it didn't work. He explained that the solder has a greater tensile strength than cast iron and as long as you kept the water jacket full, it wouldn't get hot enough to melt the solder.
Great video Keith, this is vintage machinery. It's good seeing how you repaired the casting with the tig torch with the argon or helium instead of the acetylene torch and flux.
It's always interesting to read all of the expert's narratives.
I won’t pretend to be the worlds expert on the subject, but what I did worked. Its amazing I ever get anything right....
You are very gracious about it. Just want to say thank you for the free content. I really appreciate it.
Keith we use a penetrate dye similar to Magna flux to help find cracks before welding. I have used food coloring and baby powder in a pinch.
Maybe I missed it, but did you pre-heat the foot before welding? Would that have helped prevent the secondary crack from appearing?
Always great lesson from Keith because as a person that does not yet weld (in training) I can learn some tips in the meantime.
I thought I heard a crack watching it the first time. After you showed the crack, I went back and watched it again. A crack either formed or opened up at 6:50.
Similar sound at 8:25
@@jonnoMoto Anyone that has spent time under a welding helmet knows that sound was from the plastic headgear creaking as Keith raised and removed his helmet. Much different than the two subtle "TINK" sounds around the 6:50 mark approximately 2 seconds apart. :-(
CPUDOCTHE1
There is a sound at 6:50 and it may be the crack shifting as Keith heats the metal. If you are interested in cracks please go to my later post begining with "@10:00" and give your opinion on the substance of my observations.
I've already had a couple of plaudits defend Keith by pointing out that I have not uploaded any videos here, so a reply which actually addresses the situation would be welcome.
I've had better results by preheating my cast and using a 7014 rod. It's worth a try on your end. I fixed a transfer pump for a fuel truck in the late 90's and it was still working in 2010.
All's well that ends well. Customer should be happy.
Keith,
Hunt around for a DuMore #10 die grinder. They are the cat’s meow with a 1/4” ball burr for “getting where you can’t”, on a part like this.
A little preheat for a part like this would be ideal. Also, peening the weld as it cools has been known to help.
I've never done or been around tig brazing, but on cast iron, I would be concerned that the heat is too localized and much more difficult to get an even preheat on the part and would induce even more stresses into the cast. That could be where that 2nd crack came from. Flame brazing would have been the better process here in my opinion... just as you said in the beginning, tig brazing is good on thinner material, but I think this material/part was too big/heavy for tig brazing, thus the 2nd crack. But it looks like it all worked out in the end.
could this process fill a corrosion pit in a cast iron cylinder bore? Old tractor had water in cylinder for 30 years and it ate a 2 mm deep area into the cylinder at the ring line. All other bores are good except this one. No one makes a sleeve for this. I have a hone to smooth out the weld bead after its cool. Any chance?
Looks like you are getting more comfortable with the tig torch, looks like a nice repair !
I wold have to go with preheating the part. Dye penetration check as well after a good cleaning.
Keith, have ye seen the vijeos that demonstrate fixing cast iron cracks with lock-n-stitch. The metal on this project was probably too thin for it, but nice to know it exists.
Thanks Keith! Nice work!
How do you recommend flame brazing a large piece? I have a base of a 16" South Bend lathe that needs repaired. The crack runs completely across between the bottom of the base and the opening that is covered with an additional casting. Total length of the crack is about 5 inches. Anything I should pay particular attention to durring the repair? Should I try to slow the cooling process any particular way?
Nice work keith
Should you pre-heat the entire piece to avoid differential heating in the piece and avoid stress?
Great video. Thank you. Did you set your machine to DCEN, or did you use AC?
Definitely should have used AC for aluminum bronze, or used DC with silicone bronze. and im not real sure why he wouldn't have wanted to fix the outside on something that will get paint.... but HEY, whatever he wants right... ALSO, should have PRE HEATED the part.... that will stop other cracks from forming.
Love the videos uncle Keith!!!
Best results using a TIG for brazing, is to flame pre-heat before adding the braze. Slow cool down.
Lot back seat drivers here good for the use
Maybe there is another crack on the opposite angle? Take a look at 13:50 for that.
I think thats just part of the casting
While it looks like a crack in the video, it is just a mark in the surface from a the casting mold.
Would it be better to pree heat the whole thing before welding?
I’m asking for a friend
Those cracks are too hard to see. Is it possible to use Magnaflux to find them? Also, that thing needs to be heated with a torch. That tig is causing too much stress on the thin structure.
Enjoyed Keith!
ATB, Robin
Hi Keith good job, I would of put it in the oven just to take the chill out of the cast it would stop the cracking
At our shop we repair a lot of old cast iron parts from early farm equipment to a complete rear axel housing from a 1913 Mitchell 1 ton open housing broken into many small pieces and we always pre-heat and post-heat and wrap into a welding blanket .BUT we always peen the weld even if using bronze silicate filler rod. Haven't had a cast iron or cast steel recrack or devolve other stress related cracks .
Keith's wife doesn't allow him in the kitchen anymore after he put some machine parts in the oven.
@@Sizukun1 I think you are thinking of Kieth Fenner.
i wouldnt put in my oven too but just find a cheap oven since you got 240 out there
Nah, I don't watch Kieth Fenner and I cannot remember which specific video it was that Rucker did but I seem to remember he was pressing a bearing off, and even had the foresight to wrap the thing in foil to prevent grease dripping off it. It was a funny little bit that Rucker even mentioned he only did it because his wife wasn't home.
THANK YOU...for sharing.
I was always told to drill beyond the visible end of a crack in iron...
As it'll usually extend further than what's visible...
Keith would not have thought of that, his thinking rarely extends beyond the first stage unlike that crack.
@@jonka1
Actually I don't think that's a fair comment to make...
From what I've seen Keith actually does good standards of work...
With thanks
Glenn
GLMelectrical
UK
Glenn thank you for your reply. Please continue with your observations and let us have your opinion on the actual content of my posting.
For example what are your thoughts about the cracks that are undetected by Keith? Are you saying that they don't matter or that even when he misses critical details he still does a good job? He certainly thinks so.
@@jonka1 Hi Please upload a demo on how you feel it should be done, we can then all learn from your example/expertise
Bob Tidy,
I don't need to make a video. RUclips is full of such things showing how to braze.
I also don't need to demonstrate the skills I have built up over a lifetime.
Keith obviously does need to demonstrate what he knows on this public forum and as he does so he exposes himself to the opinions of his viewers. Lots of Keith's plaudits are very protective and will often reply to criticism by carefully ignoring the truth when it is pointed out and instead throw down the gauntlet of who has made the most videos here as a way of justifying Keith's shortcomings.
I have one question for you, how does anything written here so far affect the unrepaired cracks remaining in the piece that Keith has partially repaired? I am genuinely interested in your reply and am still hoping that you and Glen Moreland will respond to the substance of my comment beginning with "@10:00"
Thanks for the video.
Just a thought as I am not much of a welder. It would make more sense to me if you put a firebrick or similar under the cast part so the table was not sucking the heat out of the casting. Yes, I know about grounding through the table.
Hmm, the upper right quadrant looks cracked?
Nice job Keith! A couple questions. What tungsten are you using, and does it have to be sharp since you are not using the tig process in a traditional sense? I assume you are doing a preheat with the torch it self in lieu of using a oxy-acetylene torch setup. Thanks, Eric
Americana saved!
Were you on AC since it was aluma/bronze?
Another great video.
I have not tried TIG brazing yet. I asume you are doing this on DC, correct? How many amps are you using and how do you know where to set it?
Good job on the brazing, but I would’ve stayed away from the bondo and added some brazing on the exterior side and sanded that smooth. Love your vids!!
As I mentioned in the video, the customer specifically asked that I not braze the outside. If it were mine, that's how I would have done it also.
It looks like a vibration crack. It may need better bracing to prevent it happening again.
weld strong or appearance?
I would go with "strong" as I assume the machine is heavy and may vibrate which could be a recipe for heat stressed cast arn to crack again. Save the packing and box. :-)
Parts this size really need preheat. It allows you to use less amperage and lessens the risk of additional cracking. When properly applied, aluminum bronze rod should flow easily and appear bright and shiny when finished.
I am a true believer in Tig Brazing. I have better results with Silicon Bronze Rod vs Aluminum Bronze Rod.
He doesn't want you braze the outside of the crack, for appearance purposes? If he's painting it, what does it matter? Plus it's 1" of the floor, so the difference in texture won't matter.
As Selfridge said: The customer is always right.
Obviously you can't sand, grind, cut, needle scale, or use any other process to make braze look like cast. The leg was visible enough to notice a crack, obviously you would notice a brazing patch.
Certainly agree but did you see that packing job? Customer is obviously very particular
@CPUDOCTHE1: You seriously need to think before you comment. Do you think Bondo looks like original cast iron?? Enough with your idol worship, regular folks make mistakes.
how bout a lil pre- heat
how bout a lil post- heat
how bout a lil stress- relief
Wow, Keith, we must be somehow mentally connected since we saw each other at #GOTLFEST. I just last night did a brazing repair and this morning you put out a brazing repair video. Weird, but cool.
Cheers, Gary
Hmmm. Two cracks crossing one another. With his mig heating he introduced more stress and failure.
No pre heat and you can hear in the first attempt to braze it together it cracks again plane as day
@10:00 I believe that the crack can be clearly seen extending well beyond the stop-hole. I can see it continuing on before turning south and heading for a crack migrating up to meet it from the bottom edge.. the hairline starts from slightly to the left of the tiny depression right by the edge of the foot. @10:44 it looks as if the crack can be seen at the back extending up towards a point inbetween the numbers 5&8, and out through the side of the cut out in the base. Now @12:04 with good illumination I believe the original crack continues along under the the length of the cast part number and forms a "T" with the crack desending to the bottom of the foot.
I hope the person who placed his trust and his casting in Keith's hands does not regret his decision in the fullness of time.
Keith, did you test for lead paint? Anyone working with old parts needs to be careful and take the proper precautions. It doesn’t take a lot of lead paint dust in your lungs to cause serous health issues.
Ya... but tig braze requires pre heat. ... that second crack likely would not have occurred with some pre heat ... and for the no braze on the outside.... careful dressing of a braze will finish just as good as bondo and is much stronger it just takes longer to dress
Well, if he doesn't overtighten the floor anchor bolt like some previous owner probably did, it should be just fine.
Thanks for sharing, Keith.
Shouldn't there be an extra "R" in the title? Currently it says "cast ion."
it say "Cast Arn"......
Bill sargent
No “R” in the title.. it’s that new math
Hey, wait a minute. Letters cost money and Kieth is on an austerity program. Save where possible. Right?
He's only brazing the separatist ions, all other atoms have remained neutral. ;-)
Well, _technically_ he is brazing ions... just a lot of them. And using a plasma to do it.
Cheers,
- Eddy
Tried the tig thing but in my opinion its near a pain in the butt. I will take torch any day.
preheat
Keith, Tell me that wasn't' lead paint dust you were breathing in without a mask. Please be careful.
Shoulda had Mr.Pete cast you a new one..........
Mr Pete cannot melt cast iron in his garage. Aluminum melts at around 1100 to 1200 deg. C.I. is more like 2200. I used to work in a cast iron foundry and we poured it into ladles at 2650 to get the proper flow by the time it hit the mold. Even if he could pour it the hand rammed mold would have so much tear up that it would look worse than the cracked one.
@9:12 It is obvious that the new crack coincides exactly with the valley in the raised line of braze.
Given that braze material contracts powerfully and at a greater rate than the casting as it cools, this badly laid line will contract unevenly. Now add to this the fact that Keith didn't pre heat the whole casting I suggest that this second crack was most likely going to happen.
Keith will not be thinking of questioning himself so that only leaves one option which is to hope that the second crack was always there. His other plan may have been to hope that nobody watching wanted to think this through.
Not good.
no filter on the camera makes this video pointless, can't see anything.
First! LOL
👌
Why don't you use a bench grinder? Like a normal person