tldr; dan heng is an unreliable narrator (and he was brainwashed sort of by the preceptors telling him that dan feng was a villian and tried to distance himself from that)
after reading jingliu's character stories and realizing that dan feng may have been set up by those same preceptors to commit that unpardonable sin in the first place. i am going to throw myself into the sea
As a Chinese player i wanna say that in Chinese stories, characters with a previous incarnation always comes to remember their past and had to confront it. (In Danmei genre almost exclusively so even) I believe that Dan Heng was in denial about his past as much as Blade did, and with the story goes they'll both learn to accept their past self and move on from there
So, this is now basically confirmed in the 2.5 update now. As Jing Yuan confirms that Dan Heng has his past memories due to Lingsha's mentor tampering with his rebirth so he would remember his previous life.
Okay Ngl this has been the easiest to understand explanation about the whole Dan Heng Dan Feng debacle that didn’t gimme a ridiculously hard time to figure out. Gnarly.
I like this perspective and I do think it makes a lot of sense. I think I’m more drawn towards dan heng not being dan feng, but not *not* being him either, it’s just more appealing to me. From before dan heng begins recovering his memories, I believe dan heng was someone completely different from dan feng. He was born, raised, and experienced a life way too different from dan fang’s and this is what I believe made his personality, specifically his more humble and homebody traits. However, once he began to remember dan feng’s memories, dan heng couldn’t be completely detached from dan feng anymore. I don’t believe dan heng is dan feng; all of his childhood spent in the shackling prison made his person, and because of this, his identity should be separate and unique from dan feng’s. I do believe that he does possess dan feng’s memories, and dan feng’s memories, no matter how faint or strong, make up part of who he is today. This is my interpretation of his self-acceptance: Dan heng needs to accept that dan feng is a part of himself, though he may not be dan feng. As dan feng is a part of himself, he needs to take responsibility for dan feng. I think this discourse boils down to a difference in philosophy. Are memories all of what makes up who you are? If you inherit memories you never experienced, would that change who you are? Would it be equivalent to experiencing them yourself? If your memories are made of someone else’s, if you yourself have never experienced or did anything they did, would that make you them? To me, dan heng is in possession of dan feng’s memories, but that doesn’t change his unique identity; he will blaze a path of his own separate from dan feng’s. I don’t know what it’s like to remember or have someone else’s memories transferred in my brain, so I don’t know the answer to these questions. I’d like to believe that I would keep my sense of self, though different, I wouldn’t be that person, I’d still be me. You may have different answers though, and that’s the beauty of theories and different interpretations and conclusions. Sorry if this was difficult to follow, English isn’t my first language. Thank you for the quality video!
I'm curious on your opinion here: Though memories inserted into a mind don't necessarily have to be like you experienced them yourself, does it change things in for you if the memories are regained through dreams that you live through and remember? For me, at least, I'm a very vivid dreamer and they often feel like reality. So much so that I've mourned people I never knew that died in them. It's easy to brush it off because it's not real, but how does that change if these are infact my memories that I'd forgotten until I dreamed them again? What if those dreams were so frequent and in such a large scale that the encompassed a whole nother lifetime? And then, what if the people in them were active participants in my life and also remember the events?
@@LalodysLore to me, these memories are valid, they are real and still affect today and me. This validity and realness is what makes it a part of me, yet again, these are the memories of someone else. I’m thinking of different media that treat reincarnation as becoming a different person, even if you retain your memories, like bokura no kiseki, a manga entirely about how pasts lives affect the lives of modern students. Some inherit their past lives goals and ideals, and some, while acknowledging that they did used to be the person, their life now is a different life, and they come to reject becoming like their past life. A lot of isekai stories adopt this idea, which is why I tend to prefer this perspective. I believe it’s more compelling to have someone try to keep their sense of self and do things their own way despite what the world expects or wants, as is trailblaze; I also think it’s more compelling to have so many people mourn and hate dan heng for someone he isn’t, I think it creates a lot of feelings of angst and development. To answer your question, I think it depends on the person. If it were only a short point before regaining the memories, I think anyone would inherit the goals and feelings that they forgot. However, once one restarts, living a life completely than the former life, developing ideals different from the former life, caring for people different from the former life, once the memories are remembered, there would be two selves existing in one body. The current self(dan heng before memories) and the past self(dan feng). Then it would be that person’s decision to choose which they would choose, or (what I believe will happen) a new self will be created from both parts, with elements of both coming together. Ultimately it is up to dan heng to decide who he is. He can claim these memories as his own, or assert his own personhood. Even the dan heng now has seen so many things, developed and come to care for so many more people, he can’t be called the same as the dan feng who remained frozen in time after his sentence. I myself have experienced vivid dreams experiencing the entirety of a life, or at least some of it. When I wake up, I do mourn and miss people in my dreams, but ultimately, that was not my life. My sentiments towards them still remain and exist, but I don’t feel that my self, though changed, is that of the one I had in my dream. This is my complicated idea, which is why I think it’s a matter of philosophy. It’s up to each person to decide who they are, and if dan heng comes to the conclusion that he is dan feng, that decision will be part of his self, and that contextualization will form his self moving onward. Likewise if he decides he is not dan feng.
@@LalodysLore I think it depends on a variety of factors, for example: people with amnesia often come to this difficulty when they begin to remember especially if its months or years in between remembering and waking up. You can end up being two totally different people depending on said circumstances which i also feel is paralleled in borderline personality disorder/ mpd (outdated term) i felt this very strongly when reading about dr jekyll and mr hyde. The book shows these two personalities grappling for the front seat and what the two personalities do to prevent the other from achieving what they desire. They are the "same" person in flesh but mentally are two different distinct entities. The hatching rebirth of dan heng wasn't complete in many ways, however this was not dan feng didn't wish for the incomplete rebirth but rather the council thought they could trick the 10 lords judge by doing a botched charm. This likely hurt dan heng and dan feng more than either wished for the other to go through. Its hinted that dan feng actually didn't resist but rather his own people did since execution would be a permanent -1 of their race. I also feel like dan heng is somewhat more accepting of his past after the xian arc was complete. While he didnt enjoy using his power, he realized that he had to admit the faults of his predecessor but also not fall into the same trap again by specifically removing himself from his counterpart. This is also why the animatic of dan heng finally becoming his own individual and free from the shadow of his past was so important. it was breaking free from the shackles that bound him even after he was set "free" if you can even consider that if you cannot return to your own home. This is also why jing yuan allowed DHIL to leave because it was clear that he accepted his past self while also accepting that he is on a totally different path now. the path of the trailblaze. this is why the story of penacony is so important! it wraps up his arc very nicely for the purposes of trying to figure out who is who and who needs to take responsibility for what. That is how i view it (wording here is really not great but i hope the general gist got across) I could be wrong about this if we return to the other ships and get a different perspective, but honestly im sated with the information i have to make this informed guess because sometimes things dont need to be more than that. I think most of the memories DH remembers are more like partial recollections too, he still has to learn and feel on his own so this is still his power though they still share the same magical source (cloudhymn) in the end.
I tend to take a similar perspective to this. Mainly because I don't believe that memories encompass all of who you are, not even your own. The self is composed of many things, memories, feelings, desires, self concept, all things that are similar but distinct enough to dominate their own space and become different kinds of motivations. So in a way, by being raised in the shackling prison and joining the express, creating feelings and loyalties and needs Dan Feng will never feel, especially as they are strong enough to overpower the guilt and fear that chains him to the legacy of Dan Feng, he has already become a different person, albeit one who still has a connection and obligation to resolve Dan Feng's lingering regrets in the way a child or successor feels obligations to the debts of their parent or predecessor.
Thank you so much for this video. Honestly, I feel there is nothing wrong with DH detatching completely from the past either but its abundantly clear that is not the narrative the writers are going for. I think this self-acceptance route is far more nuanced and satisfying for Dan Heng's character.
Great explanation! I think Dan Heng's situation is similar to Blade's. Who also hates himself and considers himself as monster because he has become something they have always fought against.
It specifically annoys me when characters in the story push guilt onto DanHeng. They don’t even think to say why they just assume he knows everything and lives in denial. This type of narrative became specifically unbearable in the Jingliu quest, oh lord that was hard to sit through.
I think what halts people from processing this is that most are afraid that DH will be replaced by DF and abandon AE. When if anything it will be opposite as what we officially know of DF is just an illusion. That one DF is what will disappear. That DH is actually DF's ideal and free self.
You know going by twisted developers logic, if DH one day 'reconciles' with his past, yes, he SHOULD leave AE and he SHOULD return to Loufu. Because the only reason hes not there to begin with is because he wasnt wanted there. Not because he CHOSE to leave. He never wanted to travel anywhere. He never cared about anything like that. He cares too much about Loufu tho, always 'helping' with their problems even going so far as to see if Bailu is actually a worthy high elder (bro, shes like 8 by your standards and why would you care anyway hm? so much for that) You also omit the fact that DF was trying to make that breeding kink into reality and probably was trying to make the race 'great again' (c). So again, if DH reconciles with the idea that DF was sane and had his reasons, not trying to 'help' with whatever he was aiming for will be out of character for DH. That DH is actually DF's ideal and free self- he can only be free when Jingliu, Blade and possibly Jing Yuan will die. Because no one will be there to try to drag him back into places and times he doesnt belong
@@vermilion6966 bro what? Dan Feng doesn't have a breeding kink and you miss the fact that Dan Feng only tried to use the power of Yaoshi to give the Vidyadhara the ability to reproduce. Why? because they are not immortal and are slowly dying out because the only reason is because they can still die if they do not return back to the sea to be reborn.
@@semideadnat Dan Feng doesn't have a breeding kink and you miss the fact that Dan Feng only tried to use the power of Yaoshi to give the Vidyadhara the ability to reproduce. - Literally said what i said. The irony
@@vermilion6966 and you're taking it out of context, he's not doing it for any sexual pleasure but because the vidyadhara are slowly dying out. He's not trying to make the race better as some would believe. That's not irony that's just you taking things out of context and misinterpreting something that was clearly stated multiple times. But you chose to ignore it.
After knowing more about the Cloud Quintent and Dan Feng, I noticed a parallel with Astral Express crew, hence story may be not the same but still rhymes. I kinda suspected that March's positive attitude and ice powers are a reference to Bai Heng and Jingliu. Trailbrazer and Yingxi seems to share similar attitudes such as showing off or playfulness. And their names are related with stars.
Now you've got me thinking that March is like a liubai lovechild 🤣🤣 On a serious note, her resemblance to Baiheng is definitely intentional with the way she asks Dan Heng for a smile, just as Baiheng asked him for one at the start of Ichor of Two Dragons.
I always viewed Trailblazer to be more like Jing Yuan because of their similar eye color and kinda similar hair color. As for Yingxing, I thought Welt would be the parallel since they’re both old men with a certain softness to them.
@@vermilion6966ok you seriously need to stop coping, Welt is part of the crew. I don't care what kind of BS you're on about him being an overseer, he cares for the crew and yhey care for him and they do not treat each other differently, he gives advice but ultimately it's up to vote he's very much ghe senior of the group.
@@NightPhoenix.Y he isnt a part of the trio you oversensitive twitter dweller. He's like 80. He is much and much older and their relationships with the main trio is very superficial because of his age, theyre not 'friends', not close on that level, and therefore you cant draw any parallels between him and any of the quintet whcih very more or less equal (at least once jing yuan grew up). you can barely draw it as it is between the trio and some of the members of quintet but himeko and welt here are off limits
this video was really helpful. ive been seeing so many people say dan heng is *not* dan feng, despite all the evidence it shows he is infact still dan feng, just not letting that past follow him so far ive read so much about his lore and to see people misinterpret breaks me 😭
reincarnation is something ive seen in a lot of chinese culture, films, and cartoons. most of the time, the characters are very distinct from their previous incarnation dan heng, like said in the video, is not as distinct. i can’t really make any good examples since most reincarnations ive seen are from one show, which isnt too reliable dan heng is almost like modern day identities. finding out about your consequences or wrong doings, running away from it will only make it worst. running away from your problems will make it worst, it’s always suggested to confront yourself about it like asking yourself “who are you?” or trying to figure out what you’d like about yourself, it’s exactly what dan heng is symbolizing, which i love dearly
Thank you for great video! Sounds convincing, though I think DH's personality is still different since he didn't go through the inheritance ritual. What really freaks me out is that the High Elder seems to be the only vidyadhara who had to remember ALL of his previous lives and probably even the destruction of their homeworld. DF suffered just as much, and it's unfair to blame him for DH's suffering because their inseparable stories are one big heartbreaking drama. In any case, they are connected, and simply denying DH's past is not an option.
I don't believe the High Elders have to remember all of their past lives, that's a feature of Dan Heng's regarding only Dan Feng. The dreaming thing is dreaming about Long (dragon ancestor). The recent Guide to Penacony specifies that Bailu never experienced the dreams associated with Long.
@@LalodysLore But doesn't Bailu's lore suggest that her lack of dreams is an anomaly? Whereas the other Elders "re-experienced the events of their dragon ancestors' (not only Long) lives in dreams"
@@Sleepyghoust Dragon Ancestor does not imply VIdyadhara ancestors (mostly because they do not HAVE ancestors, they reincarnate). Dragon Ancestors refers to literal dragons that they descended from. Bailu's lack of dreaming about Long is an anomaly - but she does dream in general.
They dont remember anything either. They can only dream about previous lives and see dreams. I suspect forgetting is the reason why they dont go mad from the mara unlike humans. No matter dragonlike or not, youll go crazy if you will be hosting memories of 100500 reincarnations Those dreams seem to be your regular dreams and barely if at all affect your personality. So even high elders are just regular people and the personality you end with is simply shaped by the awful burden of responsibility that others place on them from the young age
You decide who you are with every choice you make! That’s the spirit of trailblazing :3 You are your past, but your past is not all you are. Love the video btw! Genuinely excellent analysis and I appreciate someone putting together all of the little tidbits and parallels I’ve been noticing in one place.
The writers have SO MANY details intervowen into everything in this game it’s truly impressive. Idk if you’ve seen some Gallagher analyses vids but they’re damn good.
this is making me think of how, like. idk how to explain it but so at first dan heng was like "i am not dan feng at all, i never was him, my existence began after his ended, we are two completely different people", a complete denial and detachment sort of thing. but i feel like maybe over time that will evolve/has evolved into more of a "i _was_ dan feng before, but not anymore. our existence is one connected thing, and i'm the person that is the closest to being him, and that does mean something. but my new identity should still be respected" , which is a much healthier outlook, so yay! (edit: an example would be the part in 2.5 when he was talking talking to taoran and said "i won't forgive myself for past sins under the pretext of knowing nothing", when before, he wouldn't have even accepted that it was something _he_ could be "not forgiven" for, as he saw it as someone else's responsibility unfairly pushed onto him)
Need this video to blow up so people finally understand the nuance of his identity issues, you did a wonderful job gathering information and explaining it I have a bit of a different view regarding Jing Yuan. In his voiceline about Dan Heng he says he "understands the one he wished to trace exists now only in memory", and at the of Dan Heng's quest when he says the express needs him Jing Yuan response sounds sad but resigned, at least in eng. So I think he understands the Dan Feng he knew is gone even if he still sees him in Dan Heng. I'd count that as a form of acceptance, even if it started from a necessary political stance
Whenever someone tells me Dan Heng isn't Dan Feng, all I can say is to move on from something, you have to acknowledge that it once happened. AKA you cannot move on from the past without accepting that the past was once you. Therefore, Dan Heng and Dan Feng are one and the same person BUT it's up to Dan Heng to choose who he wants to be from now on.
The way I look at the Dan Heng dilemma is that the identity of "Dan Feng" is not just a question of interpretation but also one of politics on the Luofu. The Preceptors, in accordance to their own agenda that differs from the rest of the ship, wishes to punish Dan Feng according to *their* culture while the other parties of the ship only barely agreed to it. This is a conflict that reflects a much larger conflict between the Vidyadhara and the Xianzhou. That's the entire point of the narrative of the sedition of Dan Feng. As such, the politics behind the botched reincarnation of Dan Feng also impacts Dan Heng, as he cannot be a person on his own. Dan Feng is a person who needed to exist for both the Preceptors and the ten lords commission, and if he looks and acts like the same guy then it doesn't matter if he is or isn't. In a similar vein, does it matter if Dan Feng died centuries ago if there's a guy who looks, acts and reacts in the same way? Dan Heng knows his karma isn't cleansed since no one wants to let him be Dan Heng. All he can do is try to amend as much as he can so people will let go of the idea of Dan Feng. That said, I do think there Are differences between Dan Heng and Dan Feng because everyone who comments on the similarities does is while Dan Heng is under so much fucking stress for various reasons. Similarly, some of the descriptions of Dan Feng don't match very well with Dan Heng. Hubris is not Dan Heng's biggest flaw, for an example. Ultimately, the distinction only truly matter when it comes to the legal entities of Dan Feng and Dan Heng, identities that closely correspond to the complex politics of the ship.
Could you describe better what you mean when you say politics? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by it... Obvsly the Ten Lords wanted him executed and the Vidyadhara didn't, but I'm not sure why that's relevant? Also, I'm not sure there is a big difference in Dan Heng's behaviour under stress vs relaxed, other than an inclination to humour. Dan Feng was also likely very stressed when communicating with the same people given the political atmosphere (except HCQ who knew him well and all think he's the same now...)
@@LalodysLore 10 lords also doesnt distinguish between DF and DH, as evidenced by JY in the TB quest. So Idk what does politics have to do with this when both sides of the political debate knew he didn't die and treat DH as DF.
In a similar vein, does it matter if Dan Feng died centuries ago if there's a guy who looks, acts and reacts in the same way? - Dude just because person is similar it doesnt mean theyre the SAME. You can say the same about children of someone who died and act like jerks to them and its just as unjustified. Kinda like Snape to Harry Potter.
@@vermilion6966 Tf is this DF is DH dad hcs lmao. This is called mottle and Bailey fallacy. Don't compare HSR with a completely unrelated setting. They're not even equivalence in the first place. You can argue all you want, with multiple characters and the Penacony Guide literally stated in plain text that DF is DH and DH is DF, they are the same person.
I find it interesting that Dan Heng, March 7th, and the Trailblazer all have mysterious pasts they do not remember (or remember limittedly), and all ended up on the Express crew. I'm excited to find out what the other two really are. I wouldn't be surprised if March is actually the princess of somewhere. Maybe their civilization was dying and they encased her in ice to preserve her so she could be the last of their kind or something. Just a theory tho. Trailblazer also has a very mysterious past that has something to do with Kafka and Elio. Guess we'll just have to wait and see!
Either jing yuan is trying to be diplomatic and only really cares for the fate of the luofu, so he uses Dan Heng’s uncertainty as bait or he is trying to get Dan Heng to reclaim the past, since only by reclaiming the past can he absolve himself of the sins he/ Dan Feng did.
I don’t read much or at all in the game (the readable optional lore stuff) tbh but watching the animation even I could tell they were going for a “Dan Heng is Dan Feng” I was getting the vibes when DHIL had written character story parts that talk about Dan Feng’s whole identity issue thing with the same face stuff. The animation just confirmed it. I think especially how Dan Feng’s last words to Dan Heng is what got me. Maybe I’m looking too deep into this but it felt like a bit of a torch passing? Sure they’re the same person technically but a bit of a “Finish what I couldn’t” or a “Go, be free the way I wished I was” Anyway haha gay dragon
Great video!!! I always try to explain this one when I run into others not fully understanding. I think you did really well! He has a complex story regarding his feelings vs the hard truth of his existence and I'm excited to see where it leads us next.
GREAT VIDEO THANK U THANK U i desperately hope this blows up because i am so extremely tired of people taking everything dan heng says about his identity in relationship to dan feng at face value and just not leaving ANY room at all for nuance
1:37 I always interpreted the Preceptors referring to Dan Heng as Dan Feng out of sheer disrespect, but I didn’t really notice that Jing Yuan also did it.
As someone who loved DH IL since the first time I saw him in leaks I always felt he didnt wanted to be bounded to anything related to the person he was, but yet his journey through the trailblaze made him go back to that place. It felt like an "analogy" about how our journey is, we can't deny what we were or what we are, but to accept and embrace that part of us, that made us suffer but also made us happy, Dan Heng needed acceptance and he found it in the express, yet he felt lost, only when he made peace with his past life he was able to give himself the acceptance he was looking for.
aaa this might sound a bit questionable or ??? but ever since i found your videos i've been binge watching every single piece of dan heng lore you took the time to explain simply because he's my favorite character. i believe to my own surprise that i never had liked a character so much like i like dan heng and the way you started to explain his character towards the end of the video for some reason made me tear up. i believe the whole inner conflict is so well portrayed and you pointed out so many things i had never took into account, that is also one of the reasons i've been loving your videos. thank you sosososoo much for taking the time to make these, i love watching them and i love how you add so much depth to the lore, thank you so much
We know that some of the elders or whichever people were involved with his reincarnation tampered with it, which is why he didn't fully complete the rebirth. I said from the beginning that even if Dan Heng isn't entirely the same person and shouldn't be held accountable for Dan Feng's crimes, some of Dan Feng is still there and it allows him to have vague feelings about the past and to use his powers. It's not a typical rebirth.
Dan Heng was reincarnated, but as mentioned, not properly. I believe he didn't have his memories at 1st and had enough time to form a new personality, Dan Heng. In present,he is getting his memories back and he, in fact, is Dan Feng. Even so I think its like a person who had amnesia, can you deny the new person they where after the amnesia is real? No. Yet you can't deny the person they where before eather. He is Dan Heng and has to put himself in balance with who he used to be before the reincarnation. In reality, he could pretend as if nothing of this has to do anything with him. Yet he does not choose that path. So I believe its the same body, has same memories, but it is not the same person.
He is still Dan Feng but as all people do (a large aspect of DF's story is people not seeing said humanity as the HE) he grew (de-aged and grew technically) and changed. Also we can't definitively say him and DF had different personalities (except the fact DF was more prideful) because we haven't been shown the REAL Dan Feng yet.
Yet you can't deny the person they where before eather. - Yes you absolutely can. I remember Dr House episode where a woman lost her memories and she was married. Husband at first was very frustrated and tried to act like shes 'just a person with amnesia but still her' but I think thats House who said he had to like meet her anew and act like she just met her. It worked. Because otherwise he was simply pissing her off. And thats the opposite of what happened in HSR and it pisses me off personally. And DH is more like a son of someone you knew and not a 'person with amnesia'. Its similar to how Sirius Black treated Harry Potter which was also wrong on many occasions
I also wanted to add this when it comes to Dan Heng's whole story. Another reason as to why Dan Heng may still be held for the chaos his past life created is because someone had to be held responsible for the many deaths. It's different to be a thief in a past life and being reborn but it is another to completely be the sole reason many lives were lost. Even though Dan Feng wanted to save his species through Yaoshi, his actions caused great suffering. Many lives were lost, many were left disabled and as a result it's not something that can be forgiven. Someone has to pay the price for his actions and as his incarnation I believe that Dan Heng is forced to hold the sins of his past life.
Dan Heng and Dan Feng have always been so appealing to me from a psychology/philosophy standpoint because at the end of the day the question remains-"This was once you, am I wrong?" It's hard to really tell what makes a person THEM, is it personal experience? Memories? The soul? The physical body? It's a very vague question that ultimately depends on the person, and in Dan Heng's experience he knows that Dan Feng is indeed someone who was a PART of him but refuses to let the ghosts of the past linger around him(and honestly yea I don't blame him, DF drama is messy af and that's while not even thinking about the fuxked up reincarnation) So yea ultimately, it's like the ship of Theseus and Dan Heng can't really 'move on' from something like this without actually acknowledging it (again I don't blame him at all I would run too, that sh!t messy asf 😭)
Your analysis is just... peak, omg. You truly put in the best words something I have been theorizing in my head for MONTHS. I can't wait to explore more of DH character, I want to see the arch where he fully embraces himself 😭💙
Finally somebody, who isn't in denial, and don't cut the whole case short like: yeah, and Dan Feng was executed and reborn, and that's all, good bye, end of story. :) This was a great video! Thank you!
Finally, someone in the English speaking community who understands Dan Heng's lore accurately. I have a feeling that the western/English-speaking audience just find the Luofu arc too "Chinese" or "eastern". It's not that they don't get what the story is telling, it's just too foreign to their personal ideology or worldview, so they completely block everything they personally find displeasing and take Dan Heng's story the opposite way.
This video is a very great explanation! Considering danheng struggled with his identity even before as danfeng it makes me happy to see his journey lead towards being at peace with all aspects of himself, including those he fears. The talk about high elders looking similar to each other reminded me that jingliu’s voiceline about danfeng said high elders go through a series of trials that changes their appearance to resemble their predecessors, but in danheng IL e6, he looks the same inside the egg as he does now, as an adult. Danheng IL story 1 also has danfeng describe his face to be of original high elder, and himself as not the true owner of it, so im assuming this was what jingliu was talking about in her voiceline. Both danheng IL character story and jingliu voiceline point to high elders appearance changing to be like original one but danheng was clearly born with that appearance, doesn’t it just add more evidence to danheng still being danfeng? Anyways thank you for making this video, as a danheng fan I enjoyed it very much!!
It’s rough being a Dan Heng fan in this dry economy (I’m one too!). Videos like these make me appreciate his character more. I hope 2.4-2.X gives us more DH screen time because it just reeks of more DF and Yingxing lore.
Dan Heng is Dan Feng but at the same time he is not. Dan Heng is Dan Heng but he is also Dan Feng. Dan Heng is his own person now, but he was Dan Feng once. His soul was Dan Feng's and his past lives'. His past lives will follow him forever. This fact is something he tries to deny so hard. So yeah self acceptance is needed.
THANK YOU i finally understand dan hengs story with your videos😭😭🙏🙏 i feel like star rail didnt have enough time to actually play out his story clearly, so it was kinda like a connect it yourself type of thing or it was intentionally supposed to be like this which kinda backfired cuz obviously not a lot of players are gonna do ending up in dan hengs story being misunderstood. also, i see how a lot of people are saying dan heng and blades story heavily references a lot of chinese stories, which makes sense cuz xianzhou is the chinese inspired region, but of course western media wouldn't really know abt the references.. dan hengs always been one of my favorite characters and im glad for once someones clearly explaining the story🙏🙏🙏
Holy shit this video connects so much about Dan Heng and Dan Feng. I've been so confused about them and all their complexities. This video sheds so much light. Thank you for this!! I feel that Ive truly understood something deeper about the HSR universe now lol.
pls read whole comment before replying or flaming As someone who has always been firmly on the "Dan Heng is NOT Dan Feng" side of the debate, I actually ended up agreeing with a lot more of this video than i expected to, and it was actually kind of interesting to see how we could agree on all the facts yet come to entirely different conclusions. To me, Dan Heng's story is one about breaking free from generational trauma and trying to find your own identity in a world that only wants to define you by the actions of your parents/ancestors. In this interpretation, Dan Feng is more of dh's "parent" rather than a literal past self, an undeniable part of him but not literally the same person. The constant comparisons other characters made between him and df reflect how they see him as a product of df and the other high elders' legacy rather than his own individual person. dhil's character story 1 actually implies this is a struggle for every high elder incarnation ("it was the face of the primordial, the original, the very first high elder. He smiled bitterly and covered his face with his palm, as if ascertaining whether he could tear off this mask and return it to its true owner."), as well as the myriad celestia trailer referring to the title of high elder as "the chains that bind him" (in reference to df). Jingliu's voicelines also imply that taking on the title of high elder involves a loss of individual identity. i don't think it's a coincidence that when df says "you are my reincarnation, a mirror image" in the animated short, it shows both of them under the giant shadow of the first high elder's statue, meanwhile at the end of the short, the sun shines through the clouds when df says "go then, leave, and don't look back", telling dh to go find the "path of his own" that df never got the chance to. Hence the "you are my past but you won't follow me into my future" line. You can't choose who you family are, but you don't have to become them, you can find your own path out of their shadow. I think the reason why a lot of "dh is not df" people react so strongly when hearing "dh is df" is because in this interpretation, dh "becoming" df represents him succumbing to generational trauma and losing his identity, which contradicts the whole point, and since most internet arguments don't allow for much nuance (esp twitter because of the character limit), both sides just accuse the other of "having no media literacy" instead of discussing the actual different readings of the character (i had never thought of the "self acceptance" take on dh's character arc until i watched your video). tldr: overall i agree with a lot of your video. both of our interpretations have the same core theme of "accepting your origins and becoming a better person", i just read it as "generational trauma" rather than "self acceptance". i don't think either reading is right or wrong, just different. anyways great video, you've earned a subscribe from me. have a great day.
A very interesting take that hadn't occurred to me. I don't think I totally agree with it, because I can't reconcile the shared memories as something from a previous generation rather than a case of amnesia, but it does put into context why opinions are so divided! Usually, reincarnation isn't something associated with generational things in Eastern media as far as the ones I've read/watched go - perhaps it comes from culture differences, too? I can see where the generational point of view comes from, for sure, but at this point I don't believe it was the author's intent just because of how strongly they draw inspiration from Buddhism, especially for Dan Heng. Thanks so much for your perspective! It's certainly a reasonable one, and genuinely helpful for the discussion :)
The problem is that DF didn't even raise DH for that to be generational trauma. Irl Generational Trauma is passed down from parents to children through interactions, sometimes through abuse, sometimes just through their outlooks being passed down in life. DF DH case literally isn't generational trauma because of that. That's not how it works irl either. People call deniers lacking in media literacy because it's a tired old trope used in a gazillion and one cn media, for both het and danmei stories. Some prime examples of this is mdzs (the novel and donghua not the untamed adaptation that fucked up the plot), tgcf (hc died and became a demon, but he's still himself), and ashes of love (het TV series in the mainstream). All I can say is that this is still fundamentally a Chinese story. In American media, it's common to use tropes about Generation Trauma in war or post war movies, but in CN media, which is influenced by Buddhism, reincarnation is most often 1 person the whole time, with separate identifies for separate lives. It's lacking in Chinese media literacy to assume otherwise.
@RenHengstuffs I agree that it's not literal generational trauma, it's more metaphorical, i just didn't know how else to phrase the constant pressure of "you must be this because your parents were". imo there's no one correct interpretation of any piece of media, you just have to be able to explain your viewpoint. different people will come to different conclusions based on their experiences, no matter what the author intended (basically the principle of "death of the author"). I choose to believe my own interpretation because I see a lot of myself in Dan Heng and find this interpretation of the character more meaningful because of my past experiences, and I don't think I'm wrong for finding comfort in that. if you find the "self acceptance" interpretation more interesting or meaningful, you're not wrong for that either.
@@overthinkingmoth6006 I genuinely think it's great you're finding solace in the generational trauma interpretation of DH's character arc. However, I would like to raise this point, I believe this video is also trying to say DH is an extension of DF's motivations to break from the HE legacy. It was originally DF's desire to embrace the humanity he's been forced to restrict his entire life. So I don't see how DH = DF necessarily negates this perspective if you look at DH and DF holistically against the HE legacy. While I do think the former is likely author's intent since it is Eastern media, I think the self-acceptance + generational trauma interpretation can go hand-in-hand. Also since you brought it up in your argument, Ichor of Two Dragons DF is DH's perception of him rather than his true self. Thematically, it does represent DH accepting his past as DF and moving on forward but the way DF acted in that video except for the last part where DH has his closure sounded exactly like the Vidyadhara preceptors. All of HCQ, who DF didn't have to maintain appearances with, have stated that DF and DH act the same.
@@overthinkingmoth6006 Yes you can choose to believe what you want, but that would be called headcanon, not lore. If you choose to believe in your hcs, it's fine, but don't insist that your version is correct or that other people are wrong for saying Canon lore is canon lore. That's the vibe you're giving here, that since your hcs is hcs, you're insisting that what has been stated in game multiple times by multiple characters is wrong.
7:58 I got strong Raon Miru (from Trash of the Count’s family) vibes from this bit while watching the video just now. You know, Dragon? Shackled from birth? Rescued/released by charismatic General/Commander…? Just got a little Deja Vu..😅 Edit: Although I already knew Dan Heng’s story pretty well if I do say so myself (I love him), this video was such a good refresher on the complete Dan Heng lore. Concise and easy to understand 😊
6:05 this pendant also is not to be found in his High elder outfit, which is the one he incarnated with. It seems that it's only on this one, which is part of the clothes he was given by someone after he left the shackling prison so that he could conceal his true form. if it was that type of pendant, it should be on his normal outfit, technically.
When I started playing in 2.0, he's my first limited 5 star character. As I learn more about Dan Heng especially in this video, my love for him grew exponentially. I'm planning to E2S1 him when he get's his rerun!
I'd think of it as Dan Feng being Dan Heng's past, but his future won't be Dan Feng's future, it'll be a new one shaped by the people he's met as a Trailblazer, the people Dan Feng never met.
This video only brings exitement for the future for me-- I think anyone who reads into the game will know that dan heng isn't as innocent as he says he is. So, I assume hoyo will bring this into fruition in the future: dan heng will come into a similar situation as dan feng once did. But he won't (or will? That would be fun subversion) commit the sin. I'm SO hyped for what they're building up and all the parallels to maybe future events. Great video!
I find the Luofu cloud knights philosophy to be extremely toxic since they literally encourage people to sacrifice their lives en masse. The way they handle the hunt as a concept is very extreme, and I can't imagine we will actually take their side about it in the end. This self sacrifice is the exact thing Dan Feng and Yingxing discuss while deciding to commit their sin, so it is intricately connected to their motivation of the tragedy. I think they will do it again, but this time they will succeed and it will stop the mass amount of death by war that keeps happening. There's even a hint at another suspicious scene like this in the official release trailer "Interstellar Journey" that shows both DHIL and Blade standing under the roots of the Arbor with a massive moon, just like the sedition scene at the start of "The Prodigal's Return." It looks like Trailblazer might be trying to stop them, too.
Ya I'm doing a LGBT Penacony compilation for pride month, then a Gold and Gears summary, then it should be renheng p2 :) subject to change but that's the current plan.
But I really wonder... Are people giving trans interpretations? Like the previous incarnation is a dead name etc? I wouldn't compare this with trans topics I think that comparison just doesn't work. And undermines the story that is being told
Bro the new quest just dropped lore. Apparently Lingsha's master performed Acts on Dan Heng before his hatching rebirth to make him remember the past memories of Dan Feng. This changes everything!!!
You make an interesting point about this. And I do agree with some points. But I would like to disagree with your argument by putting my perspective into words. Dan Heng was raised in a completely different environment from Dan Feng. The shackling prison has given him a completely different upbringing from the likes of Dan Feng. They share the same characteristics, yes. Such as fighting style and whatnot. But I feel as though that doesn’t quite cut it, as the only person who could truly be DF is DF himself. I’ll pose an example from one of my favourite franchises. Lobotomy Corporation and Library of Ruina. The Sephirah. Or if you played LoR, the Patron Librarians. The Sephirah are the original team of LC. Elijah, Gabriel, Michelle, Giovanni, Benjamin and so on. After a tragedy struck the team and a series of unfortunate events has led to most of the team dying (with two survivors). One of the survivors has remade the whole team with their memories and their personalities intact. Yet they take on different names. This is most seen in Hokma, who was once Benjamin. Benjamin became a Sephirah named Hokma. He acts the same as Benjamin. He knows the same thing as Benjamin. Angela treats him like Benjamin. But he himself does not feel that the name Benjamin is who he is. He feels that Benjamin is but a mould that Angela wants to cast him in. An old shell of who he was. Benjamin is a part of Hokma, yes. He used to be that wise young man. But the man Benjamin is no longer who he is. And yet, he and Benjamin are the same in the fact that they still care about Angela regardless of her humanity. Elijah is not Elijah anymore, she is Malkuth now. Gabriel is Yesod. Michelle is Hod. And so on. The name is but a mould that they are cast in. Dan Heng was born from the mould that Dan Feng was. He is given the same parts that Dan Feng used to be made of. But does that make him Dan Feng? You could see it that way, true. But that is ultimately up to Dan Heng himself. He can choose to fill that mould with more of himself or he could choose to grow out of it. It would be selfish for others to want him to be Dan Feng again. But it would also be unwise for Dan Heng to completely ignore what Dan Feng is. Edit: I saw in the comment section say that Kiana is not Kiana. She is Sirin now. Again, take a look at Durandal. Durandal is the original Kiana. Yet she feels the name is no longer her, so she remains as Bianka. Sirin is the mould that Kiana is supposed to be. But as you see in Da Capo, she outgrows the mould.
Interesting perspective. See, I don't see minor differences as enough to quantify that someone is an entirely new person. They are an expansion, a development, upon the original, but to put them in a category of whole new person is a bit strange to me. We all change. Often we come out of those changes a different *kind of* person, but I wouldn't say that sort of thing makes them a different person. It's the core philosophical dilemma around ship of theseus: at what point does change quantify a new entity? You bring up Dan Heng's childhood, but I'm perplexed by this argument because Dan Heng retains both memories AND physiology from Dan Feng which means for all intents and purposes he also experienced the original childhood of Dan Feng retained in his body and his mind. He had a second one, sure, but it doesn't erase the first in his specific case. He is not currently in the exact state of Dan Feng at the point of his 'death' but even if he never died he wouldn't be the same as he was back then, either. Amnesia impacted the path his life took from that point, but so does every stage of your life, even minor ones. Regardless, this sort of dilemma and philosophical discussion has been prevalent for a long, long time. Evidently, everyone has a different answer to these sorts of questions. The main point of my video is to address misinformation about his biology and rebirth, but there's not much I can do other than offer my personal opinions on the philosophical side of things.
This is really helpful and it shines a different light on this whole story. (for me personally) I was so confused about the Dan Heng, Dan Feng thing which made me indifferent to to him as a character. But now I think I understand him a bit better and I would love to see more character development from him.
Random but Dan Heng's and Blade's jade pieces go together to form a shape. And since they have a lot of history (weren't they married or sum) it makes sense if the jade was so they could find eachother :D. And since hoyo is a chinese company they can't make any lgbtq couples canon T^T.
I tried explaining this to someone literally referencing canon content which you can find IN GAME, and the person I was talking to was still like: "I don't care, that still won't change my opinion" OK then, go and ignore canon content, but please don't spread misinformation lol. And the funniest people are those who use Ichor of Two Dragons as proof against DF=DH when it LITERALLY proves otherwise.
I would say he's his own person and me being someone that questions the notion of someone even being the same person they were yesterday, i definitely say his name is dan heng: the trail blazer of the astral express
I feel like this is so tangled up in the philosophy of what makes an identity, something so complicated that Genshin Impact has a massive world quest (Narcissenkreuz) that ends with a mess of chopped up and swapped and body-sharing versions of the characters that started the events that we uncover, all living examples of the different ways to question what makes someone who they are. From where im standing it makes quite a profound difference HOW the botching of the forced rebirth happened, you know? We cant say what parameters the people making the decisions around this cared about, just that the point of this process was to allow Dan Feng's capabilities to not be lost with his execution in case the High Elder succession sutuation left them high and dry without anyone able to affect the Arbor's seal. So long as those were intact, would they have cared if this process was a case of giving Dan Feng amnesia, or of shoving as much of Dan Feng as possible into a partially reincarnated body or something? I dont think so, i think theyd see that they hadnt lost access to this one of a kind tool and stop thinking there, and this would have been enough for the Ten Lords to also see whatever came out the other side of the process as a Dan Feng who they tried to get out of true punishment. So with those sorts of specifics up in the air, players are left a bit stuck without knowing enough to judge by their own personal views of identity. I mean, we dont even know how long Dan Heng was in there, or if he was ever a child or even how Vidyadhara ageing even works when theres both Child Elders and a woman who reincarnates and grows to adulthood and has a full romance every single month 😅
The thought occurs that, if anything, the fact that the Preceptors planned to hide this implies that they likely wanted it to LOOK like whatever a proper version of that forced rebirth would look like, and it being any kind of rebirth...presumably that would involve something resembling an actual rebirth? Egg and all? Which would have to mean that even with their interference 'preserving' Dan Feng in the capacity that was still useful to them, the process was at least meant to look like a smooth reincarnation from that point onwards, from where they would be able to raise him again as a back up option if Bailu's powers never came in. So...Dan Heng could have seemed like a newborn in every way that anyone could judge by on the surface level at least, but was caught out some other way, or else the Preceptors somehow terribly misjudged the effect their own work would have and they were caught because he didnt deage enough? Maybe? Though it seems to be fact that he deaged SOME thanks to that book March conspicuously told us about in the quest. I guess those are both very possible but it feels like if i had to say one was less likely its the idea that the Preceptors messed up that badly out of incompetence yet also got exactly what they wanted with Dan Feng not dead at all? Its just...ugh, its weird, it seems like if i really try to logic it out there was probably some element of the intended rebirth forced on Dan Feng that actually went through as the process originally intended that everyone still chose to ignore in favour of treating Dan Heng like the criminal Dan Feng with amnesia, you know? That makes a difference to me because of my personal values of identity, and i think a lot of the debate over DF vs DH is set off by these sorts of differences with nobody acknowledging that the gane itself wont give us enough information to say one way or another when it comes to that sort of nitty-gritty detail Im so convinced by everything in this video, yet i also feel like this story is written with a single very specific interpretation of identity in mind to set in stone whos right and whos wrong about saying who this character actually is, and its not elaborated upon much at all even though all players will have their own ideas about that topic, and its made a bit of a mess with no solution but more content that directly gives more details and answers that i doubt we will ever see...
I can see your points 0w0 Though I feel like the reason why they keep calling him Dan Feng after the molting rebirth could also be because they never gave him a chance to actually though of a name for himself but that is just me. To me, they choose their own names and Dan Heng got the idea of the 'Dan' in his name from the Glowing Character on Cloud Piercer but hey it's just a theory/speculation ~w~ Hoyo please give us the full story TMT I am dying to know what happened back then in full detail and chronological order!!!!
If he picked his name when he left... And cloudpiercer has been with him since his exile... That increases the chances of him picking it BC of cloudpiercer 🤔
@vermilion6966 Starrail can have a cosmic train, magical gods, and space pigs but healthy, agegap friendships are where you draw the line? At least one of these things exist in reality and it's not the first 3.
EXACTLY!!! Dan Heng = Dan Feng!!! 🎉🎉🎉 But the people on twitter are so f****** stubborn and blind to either understand that or accept it!!! HE IS THE SAME DRAGON BOY Excellent video btw! Hope the haters who have no brain at all don't get you just because they won't accept what's canon 🙏 Keep up the good work! 💖💖💖
No hes not. If your memories were to be separated from you body like you couldve placed them into a PC for example the question - are YOU those memories in the PC or are you a body that was left behind? The whole argument is stupid. No memories = no experience = no personhood. He is, at worst, like DF's son. Now that wont stop jerks from treating him the same anyway, proven by characters like Snape from harry potter but still Treating him like DF undermines whole DH's life experience,personality and his story. Im telling about how developers chose to do it and I think its wrong. Instead of telling you a story of letting go of the past and learning from their mistakes (mainly for the people around him like Jing Yuan or Jingliu) and learning to navigate this life they went with the old as a world 'lolz reincarnation, but its fine cause DF wasnt as bad ya know?'
Our MC went from one traumatic even to another actually. Memory erased, shoved stellaron into him, dumped and left alone, was told he was working with the criminals, was told that hes not a human but just a shell, was told that his fate is preordained. Sorry but I cant see how DH is in so much worse situation or how it excuses his behavior
@@vermilion6966 That's true but trauma isn't a competition, different people deal with it differently. Dan heng is kinda just an introverted guy, makes sense he just wants to be alone sometimes.
Dan Heng is one of my favourite characters so far, and I am proud of having his Imbibitor Lunae Form since release. I very much agree with Jing Yuan that only our dragon boy can define who he is, so I get mad at those NPCs who keep saying Dan Feng=Dan Heng=bad. For my personal headcanon and interpretation, I believe Dan Heng and Dan Feng to be in a situation that I call the moon x sun idea: while the moon mainly reflects the light it receives from the sun to shine by its own, it is not the same thing as the sun. Or, better saying, while Dan Heng indeed appears like, shares memories, shares traits and so on with Dan Feng, his identity is bigger than that of Dan Feng, including signficant parts but not being restricted only to it. I really like your idea about healing and overcoming trauma applied to this: it is as if Dan Heng has this past but is finally learning to face it, understand it and letting go of it with the certainty- he is his own person but, even if he has to pay for this life that is and is not his he does not need to fight against it anymore, he can simply move on to be whoever he wants to be, in his own terms. 6:10 and you make me smile again exposing the hidden lore, thank you! 19:24 I chose to tell Blade/Yingixing to let go of the past and was positively happy to see Dan Heng telling him something like that 'you do not need to chain yourself to that life, you can be your own person! Just let go of it!' (not the exact words, but what I remember) and this made me think... If Blade was not so obssessed with 'three must pay the price' they could actually have had a good relationship at their current lives, with both overcoming the past together, perhaps joining the express, spairing, healing... Because it seems by Jingliu's quest that Dan Heng developed positive feelings towards the Yingxing from his memories, remembering his name and his voice -regardless of the player choices- teasing him or inspiring admiration... I really feel that if it wasnt for the current state of things, they would get along really really well (either friendly or romantically). (I am sleepy, so sorry if there are any grammar mistakes. Thanks for reading!)
Actually spoilers..... He is still in a way Dan Feng. In 2.5, its revealed that Dan Heng did not undergo a complete rebirth cycle because of Lingsha's master. Her master made sure Dan Heng reincarnated with his previous memories. The Viyadhara committee are truly a corrupted bunch of selfish people.
I thought I knew enough about Daniel, turns out I was wrong. Daniel is truly Daniel. Jokes aside, amazing essay. I really missed out on way too much lore.
Lol the amount of copium dudebros have to insist Danheng aint Danfeng..I bet they watched the last Blade and Dan Heng interaction with tears as Dan Heng promises to accompany Blade to the end. The new event was probably such a slap in the face bc not only is Danheng chilling out more in the Luofu, he’s friends with Jingyuan, cool with people connecting him to Dan Feng/Imbibitor Lunae, and actively involving himself eith Luofu politics. What tf do dudebro antis think was gonna happen when they play Hoyo games, which are famous for their emotional and gay subplots. Was Bronseele not obvious enough lol. Great vid btw.
*spoiler* dont read this if you havent played the wardance(2.5.-2.6) story quest. its because dan heng is not the usual case of reincarnation. when he got reincarnated a bard gave him medicine that gave him all the memories of his past life. Thats why if you watch dan heng's cinematics dan feng is still present is if still haunting him. its because dan feng never ceased to exist. thats why he was banished from the xianzhou despite the fact he's been reincarnet.
The question of Dan Heng's soul, so to speak, is definitely a tricky one. However, I believe that, ultimately, he is a different person from Dan Feng, even if he was left with memories and mannerisms. After all, the idea that amnesia doesn't make someone a different person can go both ways. If someone comes to gain the memories of another person, does that give them the right to inherit that person's accomplishments? I think it speaks greatly to his difference from Dan Feng that the first thing he did upon being freed was fleeing as far as he could from the Xianzhou merely to be away rather than to pursue Dan Feng's goals.
Hi. Thank you very much for this video✨ I came from Twitter, so I also read your thread about this topic. Both the thread and video are informative and interesting✨ (I hope when someone watch this video, they will also pay attention to how you explain that you think it is perfectly alright that Dan Feng wants to live as Dan Heng from now on and how it doesn't mean that his current identity as Dan Heng will cease to exist, because you know... how sensitive this topic is and it has caused countless Twitter discourse....🫠) I agree with all of the evidences that you stated. But for me, it's also because his Eidolon 6. He was born with draconic features, as shown in his Eidolon 6, which is an anomaly (if my understanding about High Elder succession is right according to the current available in-game info). A new High Elder only inherits their draconic feature after completing the succession, which is why Dan Feng lamented how his appearance changed to that of the first high elder. He wouldn't be sad about it if he was born with his Imbibitor Lunae appearance. He also still act the way Dan Feng used to take care of his friends, but now he did it for his Astral Express family. And even after knowing that Cloud Piercer was made by that one guy that pursued him and was owned by Dan Feng (which is counterproductive to still keep Cloud Piercer if he wants to insist that he is not Dan Feng), he still chose to keep it with him just as we have seen in the next stories after 1.4 Jingliu Companion Quest. Aside from that, you have explained really well, that his body still remembers how to fight the way Dan Feng did, which is weird since the available info doesn't mention that he learned martial art in prison. Once again, thank you very much for the video✨ Sorry for the long comment 🙏🏼 Looking forward to your next lore video!
You're so right!! And he also says that cloudpiercer has been with him since his exile, so it's a familiarity he must've only picked up after leaving. I didn't want to talk about horns this time because there's too much conflicting info. What throws me off the most is the scalegorge waterscape mural that depicts a Vidyadhara in an egg with horns, but the child HE echo we saw didn't have horns and neither did Bailu until recently...
@@LalodysLoreThank you for your reply! Hmm, understandable. Even the details of Dan Feng's appearance is different in different illustrations (has inner color on his hair or not, etc), but I think it's because of different art style. As for the murals, at first, I also thought that it indeed looks like a horn. But maybe that's because of the art style, too...? Since the murals tells the story of Viyadhara in general (not specifically about High Elder), I wonder if it's supposed to be an illustration of a Viyadhara's pointed ear and not horn...? But even without mentioning about High Elder succession, I think you have managed to prove your point with other solid evidences. This video is really well-made, with great and easy to follow explanation ☺️✨ So, once again, thank you for making this video!
@@orkiddrawsthingsrarely Dan Feng felt the warmth of another man through their matching telepathic bracers (that he probably commissioned) that man is unbelievably gay 😭 He thought about said man SWEATING LIKE RAIN DURING A WAR when he described the other HCQ normally
His punishment was molted rebirth, a botched one. There was a vidyadhara quest where a the dragon guy fell in love with his past life lover (foxian girl). The guy keep insisting proclaim his love (out of his instinct) while the foxian girl keeps rejecting him out of respect of his past life. So Dan Heng having remnant of Dan Feng isn't that farfetched
Memories are a part of you but it is not the sum total that makes you you. Even if they would be completely cleansed that doesn't change the fact that the previous person is still a version of you and those ghosts do not magically dissappear just because you don't recall. Dan Feng is Dan Heng and Dan Heng is Dan Feng but Dan Heng is a different person than Dan Feng for he has grown.
While I agree with the points about Dan Heng's story being about self acceptance, overcoming trauma, and accepting the darkest sides of yourself, although in my opinion it's more so accepting the darkest sides of your origins, I do disagree with the notion he's still dan feng. I think the easiest way for me to describe my take is it is similar to Steven Universe, Steven is not Rose but he still has to deal with the consequences of her actions because he has her gem and power and shield, but his experiences and life he's lived, even when he has some of rose's memories through dreams and visions. He is still very much not her. I think the same applies to Dan Heng in that way.
0:26 "Acheron's namesake". Doesn't crossing the Acheron/Acheronte signify the one-way trip to the world of the dead without return? Thus going against the concept mentioned on that timestamp?
@@LalodysLoreAlso you cannonically can cross back, like Tiernan and Acheron in 2.2 TB quest. It's the same in one of the source inspos for Penacony, Dante's Inferno.
(This is for people who still THINK DH is not DF) no. dan heng is not reincarnated dan feng. he didn't go through a normal rebirthing process. he went through a molten rebirth that was tampered with. he de-aged and kept foggy/hazy memories of himself as dan feng.
tldr; dan heng is an unreliable narrator (and he was brainwashed sort of by the preceptors telling him that dan feng was a villian and tried to distance himself from that)
after reading jingliu's character stories and realizing that dan feng may have been set up by those same preceptors to commit that unpardonable sin in the first place. i am going to throw myself into the sea
This man can’t get a fucking break
As a Chinese player i wanna say that in Chinese stories, characters with a previous incarnation always comes to remember their past and had to confront it. (In Danmei genre almost exclusively so even) I believe that Dan Heng was in denial about his past as much as Blade did, and with the story goes they'll both learn to accept their past self and move on from there
Yeah I've read a number of them and it's always that way. Plus breaking the cycle of reincarnation and achieving true immortality is a big theme.
Its cheap.
@@vermilion6966ok bro...😑
It might be hard for blade to move on since eternity has destroyed his mind quite literally
@@NightPhoenix.Y no problem,call anytime 😆
So, this is now basically confirmed in the 2.5 update now. As Jing Yuan confirms that Dan Heng has his past memories due to Lingsha's mentor tampering with his rebirth so he would remember his previous life.
Okay Ngl this has been the easiest to understand explanation about the whole Dan Heng Dan Feng debacle that didn’t gimme a ridiculously hard time to figure out. Gnarly.
I'm glad! That's why I wanted to put this into a video - it's more digestible!
I like this perspective and I do think it makes a lot of sense. I think I’m more drawn towards dan heng not being dan feng, but not *not* being him either, it’s just more appealing to me. From before dan heng begins recovering his memories, I believe dan heng was someone completely different from dan feng. He was born, raised, and experienced a life way too different from dan fang’s and this is what I believe made his personality, specifically his more humble and homebody traits. However, once he began to remember dan feng’s memories, dan heng couldn’t be completely detached from dan feng anymore. I don’t believe dan heng is dan feng; all of his childhood spent in the shackling prison made his person, and because of this, his identity should be separate and unique from dan feng’s. I do believe that he does possess dan feng’s memories, and dan feng’s memories, no matter how faint or strong, make up part of who he is today. This is my interpretation of his self-acceptance: Dan heng needs to accept that dan feng is a part of himself, though he may not be dan feng. As dan feng is a part of himself, he needs to take responsibility for dan feng.
I think this discourse boils down to a difference in philosophy. Are memories all of what makes up who you are? If you inherit memories you never experienced, would that change who you are? Would it be equivalent to experiencing them yourself? If your memories are made of someone else’s, if you yourself have never experienced or did anything they did, would that make you them? To me, dan heng is in possession of dan feng’s memories, but that doesn’t change his unique identity; he will blaze a path of his own separate from dan feng’s. I don’t know what it’s like to remember or have someone else’s memories transferred in my brain, so I don’t know the answer to these questions. I’d like to believe that I would keep my sense of self, though different, I wouldn’t be that person, I’d still be me. You may have different answers though, and that’s the beauty of theories and different interpretations and conclusions. Sorry if this was difficult to follow, English isn’t my first language. Thank you for the quality video!
I'm curious on your opinion here: Though memories inserted into a mind don't necessarily have to be like you experienced them yourself, does it change things in for you if the memories are regained through dreams that you live through and remember?
For me, at least, I'm a very vivid dreamer and they often feel like reality. So much so that I've mourned people I never knew that died in them. It's easy to brush it off because it's not real, but how does that change if these are infact my memories that I'd forgotten until I dreamed them again? What if those dreams were so frequent and in such a large scale that the encompassed a whole nother lifetime? And then, what if the people in them were active participants in my life and also remember the events?
@@LalodysLore to me, these memories are valid, they are real and still affect today and me. This validity and realness is what makes it a part of me, yet again, these are the memories of someone else. I’m thinking of different media that treat reincarnation as becoming a different person, even if you retain your memories, like bokura no kiseki, a manga entirely about how pasts lives affect the lives of modern students. Some inherit their past lives goals and ideals, and some, while acknowledging that they did used to be the person, their life now is a different life, and they come to reject becoming like their past life. A lot of isekai stories adopt this idea, which is why I tend to prefer this perspective. I believe it’s more compelling to have someone try to keep their sense of self and do things their own way despite what the world expects or wants, as is trailblaze; I also think it’s more compelling to have so many people mourn and hate dan heng for someone he isn’t, I think it creates a lot of feelings of angst and development.
To answer your question, I think it depends on the person. If it were only a short point before regaining the memories, I think anyone would inherit the goals and feelings that they forgot. However, once one restarts, living a life completely than the former life, developing ideals different from the former life, caring for people different from the former life, once the memories are remembered, there would be two selves existing in one body. The current self(dan heng before memories) and the past self(dan feng). Then it would be that person’s decision to choose which they would choose, or (what I believe will happen) a new self will be created from both parts, with elements of both coming together. Ultimately it is up to dan heng to decide who he is. He can claim these memories as his own, or assert his own personhood. Even the dan heng now has seen so many things, developed and come to care for so many more people, he can’t be called the same as the dan feng who remained frozen in time after his sentence.
I myself have experienced vivid dreams experiencing the entirety of a life, or at least some of it. When I wake up, I do mourn and miss people in my dreams, but ultimately, that was not my life. My sentiments towards them still remain and exist, but I don’t feel that my self, though changed, is that of the one I had in my dream. This is my complicated idea, which is why I think it’s a matter of philosophy. It’s up to each person to decide who they are, and if dan heng comes to the conclusion that he is dan feng, that decision will be part of his self, and that contextualization will form his self moving onward. Likewise if he decides he is not dan feng.
@@LalodysLore I think it depends on a variety of factors, for example: people with amnesia often come to this difficulty when they begin to remember especially if its months or years in between remembering and waking up.
You can end up being two totally different people depending on said circumstances which i also feel is paralleled in borderline personality disorder/ mpd (outdated term) i felt this very strongly when reading about dr jekyll and mr hyde. The book shows these two personalities grappling for the front seat and what the two personalities do to prevent the other from achieving what they desire. They are the "same" person in flesh but mentally are two different distinct entities.
The hatching rebirth of dan heng wasn't complete in many ways, however this was not dan feng didn't wish for the incomplete rebirth but rather the council thought they could trick the 10 lords judge by doing a botched charm. This likely hurt dan heng and dan feng more than either wished for the other to go through. Its hinted that dan feng actually didn't resist but rather his own people did since execution would be a permanent -1 of their race. I also feel like dan heng is somewhat more accepting of his past after the xian arc was complete.
While he didnt enjoy using his power, he realized that he had to admit the faults of his predecessor but also not fall into the same trap again by specifically removing himself from his counterpart. This is also why the animatic of dan heng finally becoming his own individual and free from the shadow of his past was so important. it was breaking free from the shackles that bound him even after he was set "free" if you can even consider that if you cannot return to your own home.
This is also why jing yuan allowed DHIL to leave because it was clear that he accepted his past self while also accepting that he is on a totally different path now. the path of the trailblaze. this is why the story of penacony is so important! it wraps up his arc very nicely for the purposes of trying to figure out who is who and who needs to take responsibility for what. That is how i view it (wording here is really not great but i hope the general gist got across) I could be wrong about this if we return to the other ships and get a different perspective, but honestly im sated with the information i have to make this informed guess because sometimes things dont need to be more than that. I think most of the memories DH remembers are more like partial recollections too, he still has to learn and feel on his own so this is still his power though they still share the same magical source (cloudhymn) in the end.
in other words i still agree with your points but this is how i specifically view it :)
I tend to take a similar perspective to this. Mainly because I don't believe that memories encompass all of who you are, not even your own. The self is composed of many things, memories, feelings, desires, self concept, all things that are similar but distinct enough to dominate their own space and become different kinds of motivations. So in a way, by being raised in the shackling prison and joining the express, creating feelings and loyalties and needs Dan Feng will never feel, especially as they are strong enough to overpower the guilt and fear that chains him to the legacy of Dan Feng, he has already become a different person, albeit one who still has a connection and obligation to resolve Dan Feng's lingering regrets in the way a child or successor feels obligations to the debts of their parent or predecessor.
Thank you so much for this video. Honestly, I feel there is nothing wrong with DH detatching completely from the past either but its abundantly clear that is not the narrative the writers are going for. I think this self-acceptance route is far more nuanced and satisfying for Dan Heng's character.
Great explanation! I think Dan Heng's situation is similar to Blade's. Who also hates himself and considers himself as monster because he has become something they have always fought against.
It specifically annoys me when characters in the story push guilt onto DanHeng. They don’t even think to say why they just assume he knows everything and lives in denial. This type of narrative became specifically unbearable in the Jingliu quest, oh lord that was hard to sit through.
I think what halts people from processing this is that most are afraid that DH will be replaced by DF and abandon AE. When if anything it will be opposite as what we officially know of DF is just an illusion. That one DF is what will disappear. That DH is actually DF's ideal and free self.
You know going by twisted developers logic, if DH one day 'reconciles' with his past, yes, he SHOULD leave AE and he SHOULD return to Loufu.
Because the only reason hes not there to begin with is because he wasnt wanted there. Not because he CHOSE to leave. He never wanted to travel anywhere. He never cared about anything like that. He cares too much about Loufu tho, always 'helping' with their problems even going so far as to see if Bailu is actually a worthy high elder (bro, shes like 8 by your standards and why would you care anyway hm? so much for that)
You also omit the fact that DF was trying to make that breeding kink into reality and probably was trying to make the race 'great again' (c). So again, if DH reconciles with the idea that DF was sane and had his reasons, not trying to 'help' with whatever he was aiming for will be out of character for DH.
That DH is actually DF's ideal and free self- he can only be free when Jingliu, Blade and possibly Jing Yuan will die. Because no one will be there to try to drag him back into places and times he doesnt belong
@@vermilion6966 bro what? Dan Feng doesn't have a breeding kink and you miss the fact that Dan Feng only tried to use the power of Yaoshi to give the Vidyadhara the ability to reproduce. Why? because they are not immortal and are slowly dying out because the only reason is because they can still die if they do not return back to the sea to be reborn.
@@semideadnat Dan Feng doesn't have a breeding kink and you miss the fact that Dan Feng only tried to use the power of Yaoshi to give the Vidyadhara the ability to reproduce. - Literally said what i said.
The irony
@@vermilion6966 and you're taking it out of context, he's not doing it for any sexual pleasure but because the vidyadhara are slowly dying out. He's not trying to make the race better as some would believe. That's not irony that's just you taking things out of context and misinterpreting something that was clearly stated multiple times. But you chose to ignore it.
ao3 that way my dude
After knowing more about the Cloud Quintent and Dan Feng, I noticed a parallel with Astral Express crew, hence story may be not the same but still rhymes.
I kinda suspected that March's positive attitude and ice powers are a reference to Bai Heng and Jingliu.
Trailbrazer and Yingxi seems to share similar attitudes such as showing off or playfulness. And their names are related with stars.
Now you've got me thinking that March is like a liubai lovechild 🤣🤣 On a serious note, her resemblance to Baiheng is definitely intentional with the way she asks Dan Heng for a smile, just as Baiheng asked him for one at the start of Ichor of Two Dragons.
I always viewed Trailblazer to be more like Jing Yuan because of their similar eye color and kinda similar hair color. As for Yingxing, I thought Welt would be the parallel since they’re both old men with a certain softness to them.
@@rinrainaozora4254 welt isnt a part of the gang. Hes just an overseer.
But whole parallel is kinda flimsy as it is at best anyway
@@vermilion6966ok you seriously need to stop coping, Welt is part of the crew. I don't care what kind of BS you're on about him being an overseer, he cares for the crew and yhey care for him and they do not treat each other differently, he gives advice but ultimately it's up to vote he's very much ghe senior of the group.
@@NightPhoenix.Y he isnt a part of the trio you oversensitive twitter dweller.
He's like 80. He is much and much older and their relationships with the main trio is very superficial because of his age, theyre not 'friends', not close on that level, and therefore you cant draw any parallels between him and any of the quintet whcih very more or less equal (at least once jing yuan grew up).
you can barely draw it as it is between the trio and some of the members of quintet but himeko and welt here are off limits
You made Justice to Den Heng when Loufu arc couldn't.
Thank you.
W pfp
Naw, this is cheap is a copout.
this video was really helpful. ive been seeing so many people say dan heng is *not* dan feng, despite all the evidence it shows he is infact still dan feng, just not letting that past follow him so far
ive read so much about his lore and to see people misinterpret breaks me 😭
reincarnation is something ive seen in a lot of chinese culture, films, and cartoons. most of the time, the characters are very distinct from their previous incarnation
dan heng, like said in the video, is not as distinct. i can’t really make any good examples since most reincarnations ive seen are from one show, which isnt too reliable
dan heng is almost like modern day identities. finding out about your consequences or wrong doings, running away from it will only make it worst. running away from your problems will make it worst, it’s always suggested to confront yourself about it
like asking yourself “who are you?” or trying to figure out what you’d like about yourself, it’s exactly what dan heng is symbolizing, which i love dearly
Thank you for great video! Sounds convincing, though I think DH's personality is still different since he didn't go through the inheritance ritual. What really freaks me out is that the High Elder seems to be the only vidyadhara who had to remember ALL of his previous lives and probably even the destruction of their homeworld. DF suffered just as much, and it's unfair to blame him for DH's suffering because their inseparable stories are one big heartbreaking drama. In any case, they are connected, and simply denying DH's past is not an option.
I don't believe the High Elders have to remember all of their past lives, that's a feature of Dan Heng's regarding only Dan Feng. The dreaming thing is dreaming about Long (dragon ancestor). The recent Guide to Penacony specifies that Bailu never experienced the dreams associated with Long.
@@LalodysLore But doesn't Bailu's lore suggest that her lack of dreams is an anomaly? Whereas the other Elders "re-experienced the events of their dragon ancestors' (not only Long) lives in dreams"
@@Sleepyghoust Dragon Ancestor does not imply VIdyadhara ancestors (mostly because they do not HAVE ancestors, they reincarnate). Dragon Ancestors refers to literal dragons that they descended from.
Bailu's lack of dreaming about Long is an anomaly - but she does dream in general.
They dont remember anything either.
They can only dream about previous lives and see dreams.
I suspect forgetting is the reason why they dont go mad from the mara unlike humans. No matter dragonlike or not, youll go crazy if you will be hosting memories of 100500 reincarnations
Those dreams seem to be your regular dreams and barely if at all affect your personality.
So even high elders are just regular people and the personality you end with is simply shaped by the awful burden of responsibility that others place on them from the young age
You decide who you are with every choice you make! That’s the spirit of trailblazing :3
You are your past, but your past is not all you are. Love the video btw! Genuinely excellent analysis and I appreciate someone putting together all of the little tidbits and parallels I’ve been noticing in one place.
Well said!
The writers have SO MANY details intervowen into everything in this game it’s truly impressive. Idk if you’ve seen some Gallagher analyses vids but they’re damn good.
this is making me think of how, like. idk how to explain it but
so at first dan heng was like "i am not dan feng at all, i never was him, my existence began after his ended, we are two completely different people", a complete denial and detachment sort of thing.
but i feel like maybe over time that will evolve/has evolved into more of a
"i _was_ dan feng before, but not anymore. our existence is one connected thing, and i'm the person that is the closest to being him, and that does mean something. but my new identity should still be respected" , which is a much healthier outlook, so yay!
(edit: an example would be the part in 2.5 when he was talking talking to taoran and said "i won't forgive myself for past sins under the pretext of knowing nothing", when before, he wouldn't have even accepted that it was something _he_ could be "not forgiven" for, as he saw it as someone else's responsibility unfairly pushed onto him)
Need this video to blow up so people finally understand the nuance of his identity issues, you did a wonderful job gathering information and explaining it
I have a bit of a different view regarding Jing Yuan. In his voiceline about Dan Heng he says he "understands the one he wished to trace exists now only in memory", and at the of Dan Heng's quest when he says the express needs him Jing Yuan response sounds sad but resigned, at least in eng. So I think he understands the Dan Feng he knew is gone even if he still sees him in Dan Heng. I'd count that as a form of acceptance, even if it started from a necessary political stance
Whenever someone tells me Dan Heng isn't Dan Feng, all I can say is to move on from something, you have to acknowledge that it once happened. AKA you cannot move on from the past without accepting that the past was once you. Therefore, Dan Heng and Dan Feng are one and the same person BUT it's up to Dan Heng to choose who he wants to be from now on.
Really well said!
Well said 🥂
This…THIS IS WHAT ALL OF THE HSR FANS NEED TO HEAR. DAN HENG IS DAN FENG BUT HIS FUTURE IS UP TO DAN HENG!!!! 🎉
The way I look at the Dan Heng dilemma is that the identity of "Dan Feng" is not just a question of interpretation but also one of politics on the Luofu. The Preceptors, in accordance to their own agenda that differs from the rest of the ship, wishes to punish Dan Feng according to *their* culture while the other parties of the ship only barely agreed to it. This is a conflict that reflects a much larger conflict between the Vidyadhara and the Xianzhou. That's the entire point of the narrative of the sedition of Dan Feng.
As such, the politics behind the botched reincarnation of Dan Feng also impacts Dan Heng, as he cannot be a person on his own. Dan Feng is a person who needed to exist for both the Preceptors and the ten lords commission, and if he looks and acts like the same guy then it doesn't matter if he is or isn't. In a similar vein, does it matter if Dan Feng died centuries ago if there's a guy who looks, acts and reacts in the same way? Dan Heng knows his karma isn't cleansed since no one wants to let him be Dan Heng. All he can do is try to amend as much as he can so people will let go of the idea of Dan Feng.
That said, I do think there Are differences between Dan Heng and Dan Feng because everyone who comments on the similarities does is while Dan Heng is under so much fucking stress for various reasons. Similarly, some of the descriptions of Dan Feng don't match very well with Dan Heng. Hubris is not Dan Heng's biggest flaw, for an example. Ultimately, the distinction only truly matter when it comes to the legal entities of Dan Feng and Dan Heng, identities that closely correspond to the complex politics of the ship.
Could you describe better what you mean when you say politics? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by it... Obvsly the Ten Lords wanted him executed and the Vidyadhara didn't, but I'm not sure why that's relevant?
Also, I'm not sure there is a big difference in Dan Heng's behaviour under stress vs relaxed, other than an inclination to humour. Dan Feng was also likely very stressed when communicating with the same people given the political atmosphere (except HCQ who knew him well and all think he's the same now...)
@@LalodysLore 10 lords also doesnt distinguish between DF and DH, as evidenced by JY in the TB quest. So Idk what does politics have to do with this when both sides of the political debate knew he didn't die and treat DH as DF.
In a similar vein, does it matter if Dan Feng died centuries ago if there's a guy who looks, acts and reacts in the same way? - Dude just because person is similar it doesnt mean theyre the SAME.
You can say the same about children of someone who died and act like jerks to them and its just as unjustified.
Kinda like Snape to Harry Potter.
@@vermilion6966 Tf is this DF is DH dad hcs lmao. This is called mottle and Bailey fallacy. Don't compare HSR with a completely unrelated setting. They're not even equivalence in the first place. You can argue all you want, with multiple characters and the Penacony Guide literally stated in plain text that DF is DH and DH is DF, they are the same person.
I find it interesting that Dan Heng, March 7th, and the Trailblazer all have mysterious pasts they do not remember (or remember limittedly), and all ended up on the Express crew. I'm excited to find out what the other two really are. I wouldn't be surprised if March is actually the princess of somewhere. Maybe their civilization was dying and they encased her in ice to preserve her so she could be the last of their kind or something. Just a theory tho. Trailblazer also has a very mysterious past that has something to do with Kafka and Elio. Guess we'll just have to wait and see!
Either jing yuan is trying to be diplomatic and only really cares for the fate of the luofu, so he uses Dan Heng’s uncertainty as bait or he is trying to get Dan Heng to reclaim the past, since only by reclaiming the past can he absolve himself of the sins he/ Dan Feng did.
I don’t read much or at all in the game (the readable optional lore stuff) tbh but watching the animation even I could tell they were going for a “Dan Heng is Dan Feng” I was getting the vibes when DHIL had written character story parts that talk about Dan Feng’s whole identity issue thing with the same face stuff. The animation just confirmed it.
I think especially how Dan Feng’s last words to Dan Heng is what got me. Maybe I’m looking too deep into this but it felt like a bit of a torch passing? Sure they’re the same person technically but a bit of a “Finish what I couldn’t” or a “Go, be free the way I wished I was”
Anyway haha gay dragon
Great video!!! I always try to explain this one when I run into others not fully understanding. I think you did really well! He has a complex story regarding his feelings vs the hard truth of his existence and I'm excited to see where it leads us next.
GREAT VIDEO THANK U THANK U i desperately hope this blows up because i am so extremely tired of people taking everything dan heng says about his identity in relationship to dan feng at face value and just not leaving ANY room at all for nuance
You and me both!
this is LITERALLY the plot of steven universe guys…
1:37 I always interpreted the Preceptors referring to Dan Heng as Dan Feng out of sheer disrespect, but I didn’t really notice that Jing Yuan also did it.
As someone who loved DH IL since the first time I saw him in leaks
I always felt he didnt wanted to be bounded to anything related to the person he was, but yet his journey through the trailblaze made him go back to that place.
It felt like an "analogy" about how our journey is, we can't deny what we were or what we are, but to accept and embrace that part of us, that made us suffer but also made us happy, Dan Heng needed acceptance and he found it in the express, yet he felt lost, only when he made peace with his past life he was able to give himself the acceptance he was looking for.
aaa this might sound a bit questionable or ??? but ever since i found your videos i've been binge watching every single piece of dan heng lore you took the time to explain simply because he's my favorite character. i believe to my own surprise that i never had liked a character so much like i like dan heng and the way you started to explain his character towards the end of the video for some reason made me tear up. i believe the whole inner conflict is so well portrayed and you pointed out so many things i had never took into account, that is also one of the reasons i've been loving your videos. thank you sosososoo much for taking the time to make these, i love watching them and i love how you add so much depth to the lore, thank you so much
We know that some of the elders or whichever people were involved with his reincarnation tampered with it, which is why he didn't fully complete the rebirth. I said from the beginning that even if Dan Heng isn't entirely the same person and shouldn't be held accountable for Dan Feng's crimes, some of Dan Feng is still there and it allows him to have vague feelings about the past and to use his powers. It's not a typical rebirth.
Dan Heng was reincarnated, but as mentioned, not properly.
I believe he didn't have his memories at 1st and had enough time to form a new personality, Dan Heng. In present,he is getting his memories back and he, in fact, is Dan Feng.
Even so I think its like a person who had amnesia, can you deny the new person they where after the amnesia is real? No. Yet you can't deny the person they where before eather.
He is Dan Heng and has to put himself in balance with who he used to be before the reincarnation.
In reality, he could pretend as if nothing of this has to do anything with him. Yet he does not choose that path.
So I believe its the same body, has same memories, but it is not the same person.
He is still Dan Feng but as all people do (a large aspect of DF's story is people not seeing said humanity as the HE) he grew (de-aged and grew technically) and changed. Also we can't definitively say him and DF had different personalities (except the fact DF was more prideful) because we haven't been shown the REAL Dan Feng yet.
Yet you can't deny the person they where before eather. - Yes you absolutely can. I remember Dr House episode where a woman lost her memories and she was married. Husband at first was very frustrated and tried to act like shes 'just a person with amnesia but still her' but I think thats House who said he had to like meet her anew and act like she just met her. It worked. Because otherwise he was simply pissing her off. And thats the opposite of what happened in HSR and it pisses me off personally.
And DH is more like a son of someone you knew and not a 'person with amnesia'. Its similar to how Sirius Black treated Harry Potter which was also wrong on many occasions
true and real I was in the prison when he molted
Same
Same
Same
Same
Same
I also wanted to add this when it comes to Dan Heng's whole story. Another reason as to why Dan Heng may still be held for the chaos his past life created is because someone had to be held responsible for the many deaths. It's different to be a thief in a past life and being reborn but it is another to completely be the sole reason many lives were lost. Even though Dan Feng wanted to save his species through Yaoshi, his actions caused great suffering. Many lives were lost, many were left disabled and as a result it's not something that can be forgiven. Someone has to pay the price for his actions and as his incarnation I believe that Dan Heng is forced to hold the sins of his past life.
Dan Heng and Dan Feng have always been so appealing to me from a psychology/philosophy standpoint because at the end of the day the question remains-"This was once you, am I wrong?"
It's hard to really tell what makes a person THEM, is it personal experience? Memories? The soul? The physical body? It's a very vague question that ultimately depends on the person, and in Dan Heng's experience he knows that Dan Feng is indeed someone who was a PART of him but refuses to let the ghosts of the past linger around him(and honestly yea I don't blame him, DF drama is messy af and that's while not even thinking about the fuxked up reincarnation)
So yea ultimately, it's like the ship of Theseus and Dan Heng can't really 'move on' from something like this without actually acknowledging it (again I don't blame him at all I would run too, that sh!t messy asf 😭)
Your analysis is just... peak, omg. You truly put in the best words something I have been theorizing in my head for MONTHS. I can't wait to explore more of DH character, I want to see the arch where he fully embraces himself 😭💙
The previous Alchamey commission leader tampered with Dan Fengs hatching rebirth so he can retain some of his memories
Finally somebody, who isn't in denial, and don't cut the whole case short like: yeah, and Dan Feng was executed and reborn, and that's all, good bye, end of story. :) This was a great video! Thank you!
I love your lore videos so much. Everything is well explained and you always provide so much information. Can't wait for more hehe
Glad you like them!!
Finally, someone in the English speaking community who understands Dan Heng's lore accurately. I have a feeling that the western/English-speaking audience just find the Luofu arc too "Chinese" or "eastern". It's not that they don't get what the story is telling, it's just too foreign to their personal ideology or worldview, so they completely block everything they personally find displeasing and take Dan Heng's story the opposite way.
This video is a very great explanation! Considering danheng struggled with his identity even before as danfeng it makes me happy to see his journey lead towards being at peace with all aspects of himself, including those he fears.
The talk about high elders looking similar to each other reminded me that jingliu’s voiceline about danfeng said high elders go through a series of trials that changes their appearance to resemble their predecessors, but in danheng IL e6, he looks the same inside the egg as he does now, as an adult. Danheng IL story 1 also has danfeng describe his face to be of original high elder, and himself as not the true owner of it, so im assuming this was what jingliu was talking about in her voiceline.
Both danheng IL character story and jingliu voiceline point to high elders appearance changing to be like original one but danheng was clearly born with that appearance, doesn’t it just add more evidence to danheng still being danfeng?
Anyways thank you for making this video, as a danheng fan I enjoyed it very much!!
It’s rough being a Dan Heng fan in this dry economy (I’m one too!). Videos like these make me appreciate his character more. I hope 2.4-2.X gives us more DH screen time because it just reeks of more DF and Yingxing lore.
Dan Heng is Dan Feng but at the same time he is not. Dan Heng is Dan Heng but he is also Dan Feng. Dan Heng is his own person now, but he was Dan Feng once. His soul was Dan Feng's and his past lives'. His past lives will follow him forever. This fact is something he tries to deny so hard. So yeah self acceptance is needed.
THANK YOU i finally understand dan hengs story with your videos😭😭🙏🙏
i feel like star rail didnt have enough time to actually play out his story clearly, so it was kinda like a connect it yourself type of thing or it was intentionally supposed to be like this which kinda backfired cuz obviously not a lot of players are gonna do ending up in dan hengs story being misunderstood. also, i see how a lot of people are saying dan heng and blades story heavily references a lot of chinese stories, which makes sense cuz xianzhou is the chinese inspired region, but of course western media wouldn't really know abt the references.. dan hengs always been one of my favorite characters and im glad for once someones clearly explaining the story🙏🙏🙏
Thank you so much for this video! You connected all the pieces of the puzzle I couldn't about our lovely Dan Heng
Holy shit this video connects so much about Dan Heng and Dan Feng. I've been so confused about them and all their complexities.
This video sheds so much light. Thank you for this!!
I feel that Ive truly understood something deeper about the HSR universe now lol.
pls read whole comment before replying or flaming
As someone who has always been firmly on the "Dan Heng is NOT Dan Feng" side of the debate, I actually ended up agreeing with a lot more of this video than i expected to, and it was actually kind of interesting to see how we could agree on all the facts yet come to entirely different conclusions.
To me, Dan Heng's story is one about breaking free from generational trauma and trying to find your own identity in a world that only wants to define you by the actions of your parents/ancestors. In this interpretation, Dan Feng is more of dh's "parent" rather than a literal past self, an undeniable part of him but not literally the same person.
The constant comparisons other characters made between him and df reflect how they see him as a product of df and the other high elders' legacy rather than his own individual person. dhil's character story 1 actually implies this is a struggle for every high elder incarnation ("it was the face of the primordial, the original, the very first high elder. He smiled bitterly and covered his face with his palm, as if ascertaining whether he could tear off this mask and return it to its true owner."), as well as the myriad celestia trailer referring to the title of high elder as "the chains that bind him" (in reference to df). Jingliu's voicelines also imply that taking on the title of high elder involves a loss of individual identity. i don't think it's a coincidence that when df says "you are my reincarnation, a mirror image" in the animated short, it shows both of them under the giant shadow of the first high elder's statue, meanwhile at the end of the short, the sun shines through the clouds when df says "go then, leave, and don't look back", telling dh to go find the "path of his own" that df never got the chance to. Hence the "you are my past but you won't follow me into my future" line. You can't choose who you family are, but you don't have to become them, you can find your own path out of their shadow.
I think the reason why a lot of "dh is not df" people react so strongly when hearing "dh is df" is because in this interpretation, dh "becoming" df represents him succumbing to generational trauma and losing his identity, which contradicts the whole point, and since most internet arguments don't allow for much nuance (esp twitter because of the character limit), both sides just accuse the other of "having no media literacy" instead of discussing the actual different readings of the character (i had never thought of the "self acceptance" take on dh's character arc until i watched your video).
tldr: overall i agree with a lot of your video. both of our interpretations have the same core theme of "accepting your origins and becoming a better person", i just read it as "generational trauma" rather than "self acceptance". i don't think either reading is right or wrong, just different.
anyways great video, you've earned a subscribe from me. have a great day.
A very interesting take that hadn't occurred to me. I don't think I totally agree with it, because I can't reconcile the shared memories as something from a previous generation rather than a case of amnesia, but it does put into context why opinions are so divided! Usually, reincarnation isn't something associated with generational things in Eastern media as far as the ones I've read/watched go - perhaps it comes from culture differences, too? I can see where the generational point of view comes from, for sure, but at this point I don't believe it was the author's intent just because of how strongly they draw inspiration from Buddhism, especially for Dan Heng.
Thanks so much for your perspective! It's certainly a reasonable one, and genuinely helpful for the discussion :)
The problem is that DF didn't even raise DH for that to be generational trauma. Irl Generational Trauma is passed down from parents to children through interactions, sometimes through abuse, sometimes just through their outlooks being passed down in life. DF DH case literally isn't generational trauma because of that. That's not how it works irl either.
People call deniers lacking in media literacy because it's a tired old trope used in a gazillion and one cn media, for both het and danmei stories. Some prime examples of this is mdzs (the novel and donghua not the untamed adaptation that fucked up the plot), tgcf (hc died and became a demon, but he's still himself), and ashes of love (het TV series in the mainstream).
All I can say is that this is still fundamentally a Chinese story. In American media, it's common to use tropes about Generation Trauma in war or post war movies, but in CN media, which is influenced by Buddhism, reincarnation is most often 1 person the whole time, with separate identifies for separate lives. It's lacking in Chinese media literacy to assume otherwise.
@RenHengstuffs I agree that it's not literal generational trauma, it's more metaphorical, i just didn't know how else to phrase the constant pressure of "you must be this because your parents were".
imo there's no one correct interpretation of any piece of media, you just have to be able to explain your viewpoint. different people will come to different conclusions based on their experiences, no matter what the author intended (basically the principle of "death of the author"). I choose to believe my own interpretation because I see a lot of myself in Dan Heng and find this interpretation of the character more meaningful because of my past experiences, and I don't think I'm wrong for finding comfort in that. if you find the "self acceptance" interpretation more interesting or meaningful, you're not wrong for that either.
@@overthinkingmoth6006 I genuinely think it's great you're finding solace in the generational trauma interpretation of DH's character arc. However, I would like to raise this point, I believe this video is also trying to say DH is an extension of DF's motivations to break from the HE legacy. It was originally DF's desire to embrace the humanity he's been forced to restrict his entire life. So I don't see how DH = DF necessarily negates this perspective if you look at DH and DF holistically against the HE legacy. While I do think the former is likely author's intent since it is Eastern media, I think the self-acceptance + generational trauma interpretation can go hand-in-hand.
Also since you brought it up in your argument, Ichor of Two Dragons DF is DH's perception of him rather than his true self. Thematically, it does represent DH accepting his past as DF and moving on forward but the way DF acted in that video except for the last part where DH has his closure sounded exactly like the Vidyadhara preceptors. All of HCQ, who DF didn't have to maintain appearances with, have stated that DF and DH act the same.
@@overthinkingmoth6006 Yes you can choose to believe what you want, but that would be called headcanon, not lore. If you choose to believe in your hcs, it's fine, but don't insist that your version is correct or that other people are wrong for saying Canon lore is canon lore. That's the vibe you're giving here, that since your hcs is hcs, you're insisting that what has been stated in game multiple times by multiple characters is wrong.
7:58 I got strong Raon Miru (from Trash of the Count’s family) vibes from this bit while watching the video just now. You know, Dragon? Shackled from birth? Rescued/released by charismatic General/Commander…? Just got a little Deja Vu..😅
Edit: Although I already knew Dan Heng’s story pretty well if I do say so myself (I love him), this video was such a good refresher on the complete Dan Heng lore. Concise and easy to understand 😊
6:05 this pendant also is not to be found in his High elder outfit, which is the one he incarnated with. It seems that it's only on this one, which is part of the clothes he was given by someone after he left the shackling prison so that he could conceal his true form.
if it was that type of pendant, it should be on his normal outfit, technically.
When I started playing in 2.0, he's my first limited 5 star character. As I learn more about Dan Heng especially in this video, my love for him grew exponentially. I'm planning to E2S1 him when he get's his rerun!
I'd think of it as Dan Feng being Dan Heng's past, but his future won't be Dan Feng's future, it'll be a new one shaped by the people he's met as a Trailblazer, the people Dan Feng never met.
Amazing video❤❤❤
This video only brings exitement for the future for me-- I think anyone who reads into the game will know that dan heng isn't as innocent as he says he is.
So, I assume hoyo will bring this into fruition in the future: dan heng will come into a similar situation as dan feng once did. But he won't (or will? That would be fun subversion) commit the sin. I'm SO hyped for what they're building up and all the parallels to maybe future events. Great video!
I find the Luofu cloud knights philosophy to be extremely toxic since they literally encourage people to sacrifice their lives en masse. The way they handle the hunt as a concept is very extreme, and I can't imagine we will actually take their side about it in the end. This self sacrifice is the exact thing Dan Feng and Yingxing discuss while deciding to commit their sin, so it is intricately connected to their motivation of the tragedy. I think they will do it again, but this time they will succeed and it will stop the mass amount of death by war that keeps happening. There's even a hint at another suspicious scene like this in the official release trailer "Interstellar Journey" that shows both DHIL and Blade standing under the roots of the Arbor with a massive moon, just like the sedition scene at the start of "The Prodigal's Return." It looks like Trailblazer might be trying to stop them, too.
cant believe theyre deadnaming my boy 🙏💔
60% of the fandom ain't going to like this but it needs to be said; are there any plans for a rh part 2 video? whenever ur ready ofc
Ya I'm doing a LGBT Penacony compilation for pride month, then a Gold and Gears summary, then it should be renheng p2 :) subject to change but that's the current plan.
But I really wonder... Are people giving trans interpretations? Like the previous incarnation is a dead name etc? I wouldn't compare this with trans topics I think that comparison just doesn't work. And undermines the story that is being told
Bro the new quest just dropped lore. Apparently Lingsha's master performed Acts on Dan Heng before his hatching rebirth to make him remember the past memories of Dan Feng. This changes everything!!!
You make an interesting point about this. And I do agree with some points. But I would like to disagree with your argument by putting my perspective into words.
Dan Heng was raised in a completely different environment from Dan Feng. The shackling prison has given him a completely different upbringing from the likes of Dan Feng. They share the same characteristics, yes. Such as fighting style and whatnot. But I feel as though that doesn’t quite cut it, as the only person who could truly be DF is DF himself.
I’ll pose an example from one of my favourite franchises. Lobotomy Corporation and Library of Ruina. The Sephirah. Or if you played LoR, the Patron Librarians. The Sephirah are the original team of LC. Elijah, Gabriel, Michelle, Giovanni, Benjamin and so on. After a tragedy struck the team and a series of unfortunate events has led to most of the team dying (with two survivors). One of the survivors has remade the whole team with their memories and their personalities intact. Yet they take on different names.
This is most seen in Hokma, who was once Benjamin. Benjamin became a Sephirah named Hokma. He acts the same as Benjamin. He knows the same thing as Benjamin. Angela treats him like Benjamin. But he himself does not feel that the name Benjamin is who he is. He feels that Benjamin is but a mould that Angela wants to cast him in. An old shell of who he was. Benjamin is a part of Hokma, yes. He used to be that wise young man. But the man Benjamin is no longer who he is. And yet, he and Benjamin are the same in the fact that they still care about Angela regardless of her humanity.
Elijah is not Elijah anymore, she is Malkuth now. Gabriel is Yesod. Michelle is Hod. And so on. The name is but a mould that they are cast in.
Dan Heng was born from the mould that Dan Feng was. He is given the same parts that Dan Feng used to be made of. But does that make him Dan Feng? You could see it that way, true. But that is ultimately up to Dan Heng himself. He can choose to fill that mould with more of himself or he could choose to grow out of it. It would be selfish for others to want him to be Dan Feng again. But it would also be unwise for Dan Heng to completely ignore what Dan Feng is.
Edit: I saw in the comment section say that Kiana is not Kiana. She is Sirin now. Again, take a look at Durandal. Durandal is the original Kiana. Yet she feels the name is no longer her, so she remains as Bianka. Sirin is the mould that Kiana is supposed to be. But as you see in Da Capo, she outgrows the mould.
Interesting perspective. See, I don't see minor differences as enough to quantify that someone is an entirely new person. They are an expansion, a development, upon the original, but to put them in a category of whole new person is a bit strange to me. We all change. Often we come out of those changes a different *kind of* person, but I wouldn't say that sort of thing makes them a different person. It's the core philosophical dilemma around ship of theseus: at what point does change quantify a new entity?
You bring up Dan Heng's childhood, but I'm perplexed by this argument because Dan Heng retains both memories AND physiology from Dan Feng which means for all intents and purposes he also experienced the original childhood of Dan Feng retained in his body and his mind. He had a second one, sure, but it doesn't erase the first in his specific case. He is not currently in the exact state of Dan Feng at the point of his 'death' but even if he never died he wouldn't be the same as he was back then, either. Amnesia impacted the path his life took from that point, but so does every stage of your life, even minor ones.
Regardless, this sort of dilemma and philosophical discussion has been prevalent for a long, long time. Evidently, everyone has a different answer to these sorts of questions. The main point of my video is to address misinformation about his biology and rebirth, but there's not much I can do other than offer my personal opinions on the philosophical side of things.
Project moon mentioned
Dan heng bros we're so back
This is really helpful and it shines a different light on this whole story. (for me personally)
I was so confused about the Dan Heng, Dan Feng thing which made me indifferent to to him as a character.
But now I think I understand him a bit better and I would love to see more character development from him.
Random but Dan Heng's and Blade's jade pieces go together to form a shape. And since they have a lot of history (weren't they married or sum) it makes sense if the jade was so they could find eachother :D. And since hoyo is a chinese company they can't make any lgbtq couples canon T^T.
WORDS CANNOT DESCRIBE HOW HAPPY I WAS WHEN SAW THAT YOU POSTED THIS YOUR DH CONTENT FEEDS ME SO WELL ISTG
I tried explaining this to someone literally referencing canon content which you can find IN GAME, and the person I was talking to was still like: "I don't care, that still won't change my opinion" OK then, go and ignore canon content, but please don't spread misinformation lol.
And the funniest people are those who use Ichor of Two Dragons as proof against DF=DH when it LITERALLY proves otherwise.
It was my BEST "21 minutes and 5 seconds" in my fuckin' life.
Thank you ^^
LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!!
I would say he's his own person and me being someone that questions the notion of someone even being the same person they were yesterday, i definitely say his name is dan heng: the trail blazer of the astral express
I feel like this is so tangled up in the philosophy of what makes an identity, something so complicated that Genshin Impact has a massive world quest (Narcissenkreuz) that ends with a mess of chopped up and swapped and body-sharing versions of the characters that started the events that we uncover, all living examples of the different ways to question what makes someone who they are.
From where im standing it makes quite a profound difference HOW the botching of the forced rebirth happened, you know? We cant say what parameters the people making the decisions around this cared about, just that the point of this process was to allow Dan Feng's capabilities to not be lost with his execution in case the High Elder succession sutuation left them high and dry without anyone able to affect the Arbor's seal.
So long as those were intact, would they have cared if this process was a case of giving Dan Feng amnesia, or of shoving as much of Dan Feng as possible into a partially reincarnated body or something? I dont think so, i think theyd see that they hadnt lost access to this one of a kind tool and stop thinking there, and this would have been enough for the Ten Lords to also see whatever came out the other side of the process as a Dan Feng who they tried to get out of true punishment.
So with those sorts of specifics up in the air, players are left a bit stuck without knowing enough to judge by their own personal views of identity. I mean, we dont even know how long Dan Heng was in there, or if he was ever a child or even how Vidyadhara ageing even works when theres both Child Elders and a woman who reincarnates and grows to adulthood and has a full romance every single month 😅
The thought occurs that, if anything, the fact that the Preceptors planned to hide this implies that they likely wanted it to LOOK like whatever a proper version of that forced rebirth would look like, and it being any kind of rebirth...presumably that would involve something resembling an actual rebirth? Egg and all?
Which would have to mean that even with their interference 'preserving' Dan Feng in the capacity that was still useful to them, the process was at least meant to look like a smooth reincarnation from that point onwards, from where they would be able to raise him again as a back up option if Bailu's powers never came in.
So...Dan Heng could have seemed like a newborn in every way that anyone could judge by on the surface level at least, but was caught out some other way, or else the Preceptors somehow terribly misjudged the effect their own work would have and they were caught because he didnt deage enough? Maybe? Though it seems to be fact that he deaged SOME thanks to that book March conspicuously told us about in the quest. I guess those are both very possible but it feels like if i had to say one was less likely its the idea that the Preceptors messed up that badly out of incompetence yet also got exactly what they wanted with Dan Feng not dead at all?
Its just...ugh, its weird, it seems like if i really try to logic it out there was probably some element of the intended rebirth forced on Dan Feng that actually went through as the process originally intended that everyone still chose to ignore in favour of treating Dan Heng like the criminal Dan Feng with amnesia, you know? That makes a difference to me because of my personal values of identity, and i think a lot of the debate over DF vs DH is set off by these sorts of differences with nobody acknowledging that the gane itself wont give us enough information to say one way or another when it comes to that sort of nitty-gritty detail
Im so convinced by everything in this video, yet i also feel like this story is written with a single very specific interpretation of identity in mind to set in stone whos right and whos wrong about saying who this character actually is, and its not elaborated upon much at all even though all players will have their own ideas about that topic, and its made a bit of a mess with no solution but more content that directly gives more details and answers that i doubt we will ever see...
great vid! this is the type of content ive been looking for!
YOU UPLOADED THIS QUICKER THAN I THOUGHT (i screamed)
I uploaded it quicker than I thought, too 🤣
LMAO I knew you wouldn't take the twitter poll seriously LOL so glad you did this one it was what i picked haha
LALODY'S LORE COOKS AGAIN!!!
At least he learned his lesson and now he's out there saving planets!
idk how to explain it but i think that theyre the same person but also not at the same time the lore is really complicated 😓😓
I can see your points 0w0 Though I feel like the reason why they keep calling him Dan Feng after the molting rebirth could also be because they never gave him a chance to actually though of a name for himself but that is just me. To me, they choose their own names and Dan Heng got the idea of the 'Dan' in his name from the Glowing Character on Cloud Piercer but hey it's just a theory/speculation ~w~
Hoyo please give us the full story TMT I am dying to know what happened back then in full detail and chronological order!!!!
If he picked his name when he left... And cloudpiercer has been with him since his exile... That increases the chances of him picking it BC of cloudpiercer 🤔
@@LalodysLore I guess ~m~ But seriously Hoyo, give us the full detail TMT I want to know what happened back then from start to finish...
Congrats on 2k Subscribers 🎉 I love ur videos and learn a lot more about the lore through them, thank u so much 🙏
Thank you!! I'm pretty excited about it. So glad you're enjoying the videos :)
@vermilion6966 Starrail can have a cosmic train, magical gods, and space pigs but healthy, agegap friendships are where you draw the line? At least one of these things exist in reality and it's not the first 3.
EXACTLY!!! Dan Heng = Dan Feng!!! 🎉🎉🎉
But the people on twitter are so f****** stubborn and blind to either understand that or accept it!!!
HE IS THE SAME DRAGON BOY
Excellent video btw! Hope the haters who have no brain at all don't get you just because they won't accept what's canon 🙏 Keep up the good work! 💖💖💖
No hes not.
If your memories were to be separated from you body like you couldve placed them into a PC for example the question - are YOU those memories in the PC or are you a body that was left behind?
The whole argument is stupid.
No memories = no experience = no personhood.
He is, at worst, like DF's son. Now that wont stop jerks from treating him the same anyway, proven by characters like Snape from harry potter but still
Treating him like DF undermines whole DH's life experience,personality and his story. Im telling about how developers chose to do it and I think its wrong. Instead of telling you a story of letting go of the past and learning from their mistakes (mainly for the people around him like Jing Yuan or Jingliu) and learning to navigate this life they went with the old as a world 'lolz reincarnation, but its fine cause DF wasnt as bad ya know?'
Thank God someone finally mentioned this thank you for posting this video 🙏🏻
Dan!
Imagine Dan Heng in an egg
This video is fresh out of the oven
Ngl I would also lock myself in my room and rot for a few patches if I went through half of what Dan heng went through
Our MC went from one traumatic even to another actually.
Memory erased, shoved stellaron into him, dumped and left alone, was told he was working with the criminals, was told that hes not a human but just a shell, was told that his fate is preordained.
Sorry but I cant see how DH is in so much worse situation or how it excuses his behavior
@@vermilion6966 That's true but trauma isn't a competition, different people deal with it differently. Dan heng is kinda just an introverted guy, makes sense he just wants to be alone sometimes.
@@nameduser-lv2xz no im just saying that mc should be able to slack off work as well
@@vermilion6966 mc chooses to go along though, if they wanted to stay behind the express would probably just let them
how fear became daniel
HELP THIS MADE ME CHANGE MY ENTIRE PERSPECTIVE OD DAN HENG I DIDNT LIKE HIM BEFORE BUT MY GOSH I MIGHT WANNA MAIN HIM NOW SINCE I HAVE IN E6 ;-;
Welcome to the fanclub!! If you think about him deeply, his personal story is actually really amazing. I'm super glad I could do him justice!
Dan Heng is one of my favourite characters so far, and I am proud of having his Imbibitor Lunae Form since release. I very much agree with Jing Yuan that only our dragon boy can define who he is, so I get mad at those NPCs who keep saying Dan Feng=Dan Heng=bad.
For my personal headcanon and interpretation, I believe Dan Heng and Dan Feng to be in a situation that I call the moon x sun idea: while the moon mainly reflects the light it receives from the sun to shine by its own, it is not the same thing as the sun. Or, better saying, while Dan Heng indeed appears like, shares memories, shares traits and so on with Dan Feng, his identity is bigger than that of Dan Feng, including signficant parts but not being restricted only to it. I really like your idea about healing and overcoming trauma applied to this: it is as if Dan Heng has this past but is finally learning to face it, understand it and letting go of it with the certainty- he is his own person but, even if he has to pay for this life that is and is not his he does not need to fight against it anymore, he can simply move on to be whoever he wants to be, in his own terms.
6:10 and you make me smile again exposing the hidden lore, thank you!
19:24 I chose to tell Blade/Yingixing to let go of the past and was positively happy to see Dan Heng telling him something like that 'you do not need to chain yourself to that life, you can be your own person! Just let go of it!' (not the exact words, but what I remember) and this made me think... If Blade was not so obssessed with 'three must pay the price' they could actually have had a good relationship at their current lives, with both overcoming the past together, perhaps joining the express, spairing, healing... Because it seems by Jingliu's quest that Dan Heng developed positive feelings towards the Yingxing from his memories, remembering his name and his voice -regardless of the player choices- teasing him or inspiring admiration... I really feel that if it wasnt for the current state of things, they would get along really really well (either friendly or romantically).
(I am sleepy, so sorry if there are any grammar mistakes. Thanks for reading!)
Actually spoilers.....
He is still in a way Dan Feng. In 2.5, its revealed that Dan Heng did not undergo a complete rebirth cycle because of Lingsha's master. Her master made sure Dan Heng reincarnated with his previous memories.
The Viyadhara committee are truly a corrupted bunch of selfish people.
Wow....i have more in common with my favorite media characters than i thought possible....
LETS GOOOOO
I came from twitter, this video is so interesting
I just want the silly guys in my phone to be happy
What a great, you deserve more sub and i just subscribe
I thought I knew enough about Daniel, turns out I was wrong. Daniel is truly Daniel.
Jokes aside, amazing essay. I really missed out on way too much lore.
Thank you for the easy to understand explanation!
Lol the amount of copium dudebros have to insist Danheng aint Danfeng..I bet they watched the last Blade and Dan Heng interaction with tears as Dan Heng promises to accompany Blade to the end. The new event was probably such a slap in the face bc not only is Danheng chilling out more in the Luofu, he’s friends with Jingyuan, cool with people connecting him to Dan Feng/Imbibitor Lunae, and actively involving himself eith Luofu politics. What tf do dudebro antis think was gonna happen when they play Hoyo games, which are famous for their emotional and gay subplots. Was Bronseele not obvious enough lol. Great vid btw.
I think it may be because he was forced into rebirth (atleast I think)
*spoiler*
dont read this if you havent played the wardance(2.5.-2.6) story quest.
its because dan heng is not the usual case of reincarnation. when he got reincarnated a bard gave him medicine that gave him all the memories of his past life. Thats why if you watch dan heng's cinematics dan feng is still present is if still haunting him. its because dan feng never ceased to exist. thats why he was banished from the xianzhou despite the fact he's been reincarnet.
The question of Dan Heng's soul, so to speak, is definitely a tricky one. However, I believe that, ultimately, he is a different person from Dan Feng, even if he was left with memories and mannerisms. After all, the idea that amnesia doesn't make someone a different person can go both ways. If someone comes to gain the memories of another person, does that give them the right to inherit that person's accomplishments? I think it speaks greatly to his difference from Dan Feng that the first thing he did upon being freed was fleeing as far as he could from the Xianzhou merely to be away rather than to pursue Dan Feng's goals.
Hi. Thank you very much for this video✨ I came from Twitter, so I also read your thread about this topic. Both the thread and video are informative and interesting✨ (I hope when someone watch this video, they will also pay attention to how you explain that you think it is perfectly alright that Dan Feng wants to live as Dan Heng from now on and how it doesn't mean that his current identity as Dan Heng will cease to exist, because you know... how sensitive this topic is and it has caused countless Twitter discourse....🫠)
I agree with all of the evidences that you stated. But for me, it's also because his Eidolon 6. He was born with draconic features, as shown in his Eidolon 6, which is an anomaly (if my understanding about High Elder succession is right according to the current available in-game info). A new High Elder only inherits their draconic feature after completing the succession, which is why Dan Feng lamented how his appearance changed to that of the first high elder. He wouldn't be sad about it if he was born with his Imbibitor Lunae appearance.
He also still act the way Dan Feng used to take care of his friends, but now he did it for his Astral Express family. And even after knowing that Cloud Piercer was made by that one guy that pursued him and was owned by Dan Feng (which is counterproductive to still keep Cloud Piercer if he wants to insist that he is not Dan Feng), he still chose to keep it with him just as we have seen in the next stories after 1.4 Jingliu Companion Quest.
Aside from that, you have explained really well, that his body still remembers how to fight the way Dan Feng did, which is weird since the available info doesn't mention that he learned martial art in prison.
Once again, thank you very much for the video✨ Sorry for the long comment 🙏🏼 Looking forward to your next lore video!
You're so right!! And he also says that cloudpiercer has been with him since his exile, so it's a familiarity he must've only picked up after leaving.
I didn't want to talk about horns this time because there's too much conflicting info. What throws me off the most is the scalegorge waterscape mural that depicts a Vidyadhara in an egg with horns, but the child HE echo we saw didn't have horns and neither did Bailu until recently...
@@LalodysLoreThank you for your reply!
Hmm, understandable. Even the details of Dan Feng's appearance is different in different illustrations (has inner color on his hair or not, etc), but I think it's because of different art style.
As for the murals, at first, I also thought that it indeed looks like a horn. But maybe that's because of the art style, too...? Since the murals tells the story of Viyadhara in general (not specifically about High Elder), I wonder if it's supposed to be an illustration of a Viyadhara's pointed ear and not horn...?
But even without mentioning about High Elder succession, I think you have managed to prove your point with other solid evidences. This video is really well-made, with great and easy to follow explanation ☺️✨ So, once again, thank you for making this video!
GRAHH I DONT CARE HES STILL BABYGIRL AHHHH
Dan Feng was also babygirl where do you think Dan Heng got the babygirl from 🤨
@@Taff3ta_ caelus maybe hes WAYY frutier than dan feng
@@orkiddrawsthingsrarely Dan Feng felt the warmth of another man through their matching telepathic bracers (that he probably commissioned) that man is unbelievably gay 😭
He thought about said man SWEATING LIKE RAIN DURING A WAR when he described the other HCQ normally
@@Taff3ta_ i dont think this man can escape his past if he cant escape being this gay tbh
@@orkiddrawsthingsrarely Well he's not actively escaping being gay... He just forgot he was gay for YX... 😭
His punishment was molted rebirth, a botched one. There was a vidyadhara quest where a the dragon guy fell in love with his past life lover (foxian girl). The guy keep insisting proclaim his love (out of his instinct) while the foxian girl keeps rejecting him out of respect of his past life.
So Dan Heng having remnant of Dan Feng isn't that farfetched
Memories are a part of you but it is not the sum total that makes you you. Even if they would be completely cleansed that doesn't change the fact that the previous person is still a version of you and those ghosts do not magically dissappear just because you don't recall. Dan Feng is Dan Heng and Dan Heng is Dan Feng but Dan Heng is a different person than Dan Feng for he has grown.
This made me sad :(
(That’s good though, enjoyed it)
While I agree with the points about Dan Heng's story being about self acceptance, overcoming trauma, and accepting the darkest sides of yourself, although in my opinion it's more so accepting the darkest sides of your origins, I do disagree with the notion he's still dan feng. I think the easiest way for me to describe my take is it is similar to Steven Universe, Steven is not Rose but he still has to deal with the consequences of her actions because he has her gem and power and shield, but his experiences and life he's lived, even when he has some of rose's memories through dreams and visions. He is still very much not her. I think the same applies to Dan Heng in that way.
I wanna ask did Dan heng take the flame ?
0:26 "Acheron's namesake". Doesn't crossing the Acheron/Acheronte signify the one-way trip to the world of the dead without return? Thus going against the concept mentioned on that timestamp?
Her real name in CN and JP is "yellow springs." Acheron is a localisation.
@@LalodysLoreAlso you cannonically can cross back, like Tiernan and Acheron in 2.2 TB quest. It's the same in one of the source inspos for Penacony, Dante's Inferno.
(This is for people who still THINK DH is not DF) no. dan heng is not reincarnated dan feng. he didn't go through a normal rebirthing process. he went through a molten rebirth that was tampered with. he de-aged and kept foggy/hazy memories of himself as dan feng.