I have been a music producer for more than 20 years. But also a passionate mixing engineer. Most of the time, my mixing-self is on your side. But this time the producer in me really likes the interface which can be a huge inspiration too. So here I'd defo go with this instead of Timeless and Saturn combined.
Darude sat at his desk, staring at the computer screen in front of him. He had been working on a new track for weeks, but he just couldn't seem to get the sound he was looking for. Frustrated, he stood up and began pacing around the room. As he walked, his eyes landed on an old tape delay in the corner of the room. It was an Echoleffe, a rare and powerful instrument that had been discontinued years ago. Darude had always loved the unique sound it could produce, and he had always wanted to use it in one of his tracks. On a whim, he sat down at the Echoleffe and began tinkering with its settings. As he played, he began to get a sense of the music he wanted to create. Finally, after hours of experimentation, Darude hit on the perfect sound. It was a soaring, mesmerizing supersaw, a sound that would come to define his hit single "Sandstorm." As he listened to the track, Darude knew he had found something special. He couldn't wait to share it with the world, and he knew that "Sandstorm" would be a hit. And so it was, as the song went on to become one of the most iconic and beloved dance tracks of all time, all thanks to the Echoleffe and Darude's creativity and determination.
I will say, in terms of achieving some glitchy effects and noises, it is cool to be able to automate settings changes and then have it make the same kind of warbles as analog. It would be nice to be able to turn these on and off with a "Trails" button!
Brother, you criticize all these gui's for looking to trashy or cringy with the real world references of screws and such, yet you would not appreciate criticism of your choice of hand decor. Let dev's make their plugins look how they want them to look. Its art, graphic design and self expression.
The UI is part of the product. So, self expression, well yes. The developers are free to create any UI they want on their product. But they should also accept that people will judge the product as it is delivered. My point is: the color of the nail polish does not affect the mixes and mastering that Wytse does. The color of the hair of the developers and their clothing do not affect the product so none of that should be under review... but I think it is fair to judge the UI as this is the primary interface to the functionality that they offer the customer. So I think Wytse is right to share his opinion on the UI. And you can disagree with him on his opinion. Maybe you love the UI, that's fine. Nonetheless, the UI is part of the product and the product is under review. I do agree with Wytse that modern computer UI offers so much more possibilities than the old analogue equivalents. How cool would it be if you could "move" the playheads with a certain ratio to increase the delay time between the repeats? How about a knob to change the ratio? And now the heads move with the new ratio set. A user interface on a physical device almost always limits the features that are provided to the customer. Modern UI interface can be designed to offer maximum features to customers. So yeah, I prefer cool new features over of a clumsy resemblance to a decade old machine with limited possibilities.
Self expression in of itself is not a product for sale. If Wytse decided to sell his nails or designs as products, he’d be open to critique from potential buyers. That’s why it makes sense he might not appreciate criticism of his hand decor, because it’s not a product he is selling that would be open for review. Cheers.
I bought a Klemt Echolette in the 90’s and fell in love with the warm cavernous tape delay effect that imparts a natural sounding reverb. Even better is the tube section, that is one of the best pre-amps I’ve ever used. I nicknamed it the Voice of God and still use it today as an effects send. Nothings sounds like it.
This plugin was designed to push Wytse over the edge! I realise for a professional studio user that time = money, and you don't want to have to fight against an interface to do something basic. On other hand, I don't want to live in a bland world where everything is utilitarian and functional. You have to reach out to the other side of your brain and get creative sometimes.
It took him like 5 seconds to figure out to click the korneff logo lol. I love the channel almost as much as I love Wytse getting upset with gui's and auto gain hahaha
and also probably there is more enthusiast musicians that are not that good with computers than recording studios. so i'm guessing this is their targeting. these users often pick by design
Honestly, I love Wytse but he's literally the only engineer that hates nice's GUIs 🤣 I've heard a lot of people complain about stuff like the "Analog" button on waves software etc ... But never on cool looking interfaces 🤣✌️
If FabFilter plugins do everything already, why do other plugin companies exist at all? If stock Ableton plugins do everything, why does FabFilter exist at all?
I love Echoleffe, I know for you the interface has it's issues, but it sounds amazing, and if you're actually familiar with the company you'd know the logo thing has always been a thing. Plus, I miss people reading the manual, like on an 1176 for example, a lot of people STILL use it backwards unless they google enough, watch enough videos, or READ THE MANUAL.
Man! Man, at least a Finnish man, NEVER read manual. Okay, this was joke (not, Finnish man does not read manual) , BUT basic use of plugins should be so intuitive that there is no need for manual.
Yes, top shelf stuff. Expert. All of it. 5 minutes research and a respectful common sense read of user guide /Help section.. all that.. would have allowed above review to acknowledge all those things.. ☮
As an absolute dubhead this sounds gorgeous. The pitch drag when it changed speed is lovely, I'd gladly use it soth automation. Your analog emulation hate can really be a meme sometimes!
8:00 ; uh no... IF you use this effect creatively and it keeps resetting when you using automation, you take away something you CANNOT do as easily with analog. Making it reset doens't make it better, it makes it worse.
Me too. I just love watching him rage over these interfaces! When you are used to using analogue equipment, these interfaces make more sense. I find digital interfaces confusing sometimes - but I'm happy using either/or. He misses the point a bit on the shortcomings of analogue gear being modelled as well; those weird glitches are desirable. Although, I do understand that having the option to switch them on/off would make things better for some.
It sounds great - as far as I can judge with the audio on RUclips. And I don't know how I would get these sounds using other plugins; especially as I'd have to hear the sounds first and then try to emulate them. But the GUI really could be more user friendly. It's pretty expensive and I'd need a very good reason to choose it over other alternatives. So, basically, I'd have to trial it and really need exactly what it was offering. I can see it being pretty popular, especially if it is CPU efficient - which I don't know about. It was lovely to see the tape delay that your late teacher gave you. It could be worth fixing it up and giving it new life - money and time allowing. Thanks!
You can't always judge/compare plugins on the number of features, ya know... Some delays just sound better than others IMO. (And yes, with enough plugins in your chain, you might be able to narrow the gap in sound quality, but then you're running into convenience/usability/time issues.)
Thanks for the video! Honestly, this plugin seems like it sounds pretty good. But... I do colored delays all time with pedestrian plugins. I mean... These things are plugins. You can stack them up in a parallel chain and go nuts. I typically wonder why I need "Analog" delay plugins. I'm not saying it "Sucks" or something. Just wondering why I need it.
I know your against alot of UIs usually the ones you hate are the ones I love..I know everyone has a preference so I respect your opinion.. granted I have this plugin and never knew you could click the logo to another screen lol... so ya they should make it more clear that you can do that..
But I think "Saturn on Timeless" will not have only different feedback artefacts saturating differently from each other, but will react to the whole sound, which I think this doesn't. Even though, maybe if Fabfilter got their different plugins to interconnect... Hmmm.... That would be cool! Like connecting different instances of saturn to individual delay heads, in a plugin or reverbs, etc...
This is one of my favourite software delays, never been a fan of timeless interface although you may have tempted me to give it another try but this sounds fantastic IMO.
I enjoy how it sounds. Are all the knobs automatable? Seems like it would be fun to mess with while it is working. I can't justify $200. I'm going to go mess with the echo cat from wavesfactory I already have. It has much of the same functionality.
I've been enjoying CHOW Tape Model with Softube's tube delay for stuff like this. Since we're talking digital plugins, why limit yourself with something like this when you can use any type of delay with any kind of saturation, as well as having more flexibility with routing? Choosing to have the delay before or after some tape warble, as one example, can give us a lot more creative freedom.
I'll name you one thing that most other delays can do that this can't (at least without a delay bus and dual instances and settings) and that's a simple ping pong. *I think the real research is that people perceive vintage sound as ever more authentic, the more vintage the UI looks.
Wytse, I couldn't agree more with your comments on the interface design. The plugin sounds pretty good, but just watching you fight through figuring out the controls made me exhausted.
A sax player friend of mine kept using the original decades after it was built (of course it had maintenance during that time). I really loved the sound and regarded it as one of the best sounding tape delays I ever heard: it was just musical in it's filtering and combination of reverb and delay. I can't say much about the plugin, as I haven't tested it yet: but I'd rather spend an end price of 99 bucks on it just for the reverb and delay functionality, without the saturation nonsense being worth nothing at all to me (half a dozen plugins do that in various ways for me): really not willing to pay any amount of money for these completely unnecessary bells and whistles.
After getting Valhalla delay I can't imagine needing another delay ever again. Sometimes I get my Watkins ic400 varispeed out, but even the free plugin version of that is okay! Still not as fun as the real thing of course
A $199 vintage emulation delay... today... after we have got how many?...a dozen in the last year? It sounds really good ok, but too pricey, too much cpu load, and too many good competitors. Maybe can be interesting when next version code will tax less the cpu and will be sensibly discounted. For now as Wytse said, you can do it faster and same quality with 1 or 2 other much more established products or with a quarted of that price can get you a Valhalla tool 😎
Im with ya... between Saturn and Timeless I rarely need more in terms of space and saturation... Probably my two most go tooz... its hard to justify isnt it...
"name me something this one plugin can do that I can't do with two more versatile plugins" Probably not alot but that could be said in most instances with any plugins.
I really have no desire to buy saturation plugins I have a couple and that's all I've really needed. But I have to say, the saturation on this actually sounded legit. It's like the perfect saturation character I hope to hear when I open black box or something but I always end up feeling disappointed. Like this kinda sounds like a mic'd up cab and you're hearing the speaker being driven a bit too hot rather than harsh sounding distortion. Might grab this bad boy just for that. Edit: Just saw the price - NOPE.
Your missing the point, why would you not want it to act like what it was modeled after?? Your saying to make digital work better, we’ll there are delays that don’t work like this unit, hence those plugins are not modeled after this delay. You completely missed the point of this plug-in. Does it do what it was modeled to do? Yes, plain and simple
I agree, that's the thing. If you want a "only plugin" approach, you go with your DAW one, or Fabfilter (as he says). This is a different thing. And interface designt matters! Doesn't sound, but it matters completely.
It still think it is a missed opportunity. Sure if you intent to make a perfect replica of the device nothing stops you from considering cool new features that were not possible on the old hardware version but are easy to implement in a digital recreation. Have a setting that switching between "authentic" and "advanced" functionality and offer the features that the designers of the hardware wished they could offer but couldn't because of hardware restrictions. I would love a tape echo device that actually can move its playheads apart with a certain ratio between the playheads and this ratio can be continuously adjusted and automated. This would give you a very cool sound effect which is only viable in digital recreations.
I've got to imagine that the age of adults buying $200 audio plugins with skeuomorphic designs so they can pretend that they are using some rare esoteric piece of hardware must be coming to an end. No judgment - I am also (very) guilty. That being said, the busier that I get and the more that I need a variety of good delay sounds, the more I appreciate Valhalla Delay - one great GUI and all of the beautiful sounds that I could need for $50.
Maybe it sounds insane and it's the real deal or whatever but that GUI looks like an eyesore with all those white reflections on the main panel and shadows on the second one, how was that even a better design decision? How does that specifically help me the user to work better? Also physical in/out that doesn't work, and a rotating motor? Because I reaaaally need all those on the interface *eyeroll* I don't hate skeuomorphic, but when it's done like this it just makes me look the other way. I actually liked the stars backdrop and golden accents on blue haha everything else.. meh. Timeless has a ton of stuff on it but at least it's readable, which on that note, this font they chose for all the parameters, nope.
I used to have an Echoplex. My God I loved it. It was stolen from me. It was years ago and I still want justice! Good movie plot? 'Her Echoplex was stolen and she seeks revenge, revenge, revenge'. I'd go see it. 🧡
I think plugin interfaces should be clear! When I want to get to the business of mixing I don't want to mess around trying to figure out what is where, when it can be simply written. Clever creativity is important and a reflection of a clear and thorough thought process.
I for myself do not like hardware emulation plugins. Most of the time I don't get what they do, as you can't see it (except them knobs) you can hear some of it. I do like to SEE what a plugin does (frequency etc) I do get why some like those, as older producers had the hardware (or stil have) I tried a few and well I will not buy them (most of these are often way to expensive too) I would rather get a kirchoff,fab filter or any other software plugin where you see what they are doing to the sound.
LOL. I sent this suggestion to Wytse anticipating his review. It was wonderfully as expected. I had the hardware back in the day with a partner who still has it and has taken better care of his than Wytse has. It has a crap ton of tone that I can get at more easily than I can with my FF plugs. Wytse is likely quite different in this regard as he likely has a great deal of time invested in his FF plugs that I don't have beyond the Pro Q3 and MB. Anyway, great review Wytse, I have to agree that this thing is plenty goofy, but so was the hardware, and to my ears the plug is a solid emulation of real good sounding piece of hardware. As an aside, don't review the Pawn Shop, as it'll make you nuts too, even though it can be pretty special on vocals.
Ha, this is the perfect occasion to ask you something: I got a tape machine from the late 60ies. It also got DIN on the backside. where did you solder what to convert it to XLR?
Is the Dolby Atmos video on its way is your Client requesting Dolby-atmos? Will u be upgrading your Studio for atmos or just work in Dolby atmos binaural headphones mode?
I had Echolette in 60s-70s. It's pretty amazing though I gave it a nickname "noise generator". Ok, maybe the tape was worn out and tape heads dirty. But nothing beats its warm echo sound, I always remember my Echolette when plugin sellers try to promote some new "analog, warm sounding" plugins.
Sounds great....LOTS of tweaking options. Too many perhaps??? I appreciate these programmers trying to be creative by really going to town with their GUI's.......but sometimes I think they could use some editors 🙄. This is one of those plugins that can create option anxiety, if you know what I mean 🤔😳 Most of these sounds can be achieved with the Echoboy, or any number of dlys that have a drive and "warble" function. Between the Echoboy and one of those wacky Hainbach plugins, I'm set for clean to dirty vintage dly effects 😊
You’ll find with the Echoleffe that it can be as simple or as complex as you wish. There’s also a fun Random button, if you just feel like getting something cool and then tweeking.
"Do we need another plugin?" After having Black Friday GAS, I was inspired by watching Justin Colletti remix a song that Michael Brauer is known for by using only DAW plugins. Yup. It turned out just as professional and radio ready. (Minus stylistic choices of course). So... No. Probably don't need that new plugin.
belive it computers existed in the 1960s, and people were making music on computers since the 1950s! (This is why I try and ignore most young people on RUclips -- they don't know near as much as the older dudes over on Sweetwater lol)
This plugin (and review) does nothing for the resale value on my original echolette, I did use it once (or twice). The original is a bit of a one trick pony and it does the trick well. I used the 3rd tap alot on long. And a first tap on short does a nice re201 thing on vox. I'll probably get the plug in so I can sell the hardware. Haven't turned it on in a few years. Was hoping a good plugin would bump up the value.
FF Timeless 3 is a fantastic and powerful plugin. It just takes TIME and practice to get what one may Actually Desire from it (justxas Timeless 2 always did). As with all FF plugs, watch out for the presets because most Aren't good and seemed like rushed or Highly specialized presets (in my experience). In this respect (that the plugin takes Time and Practice) I can see wheresome may find it less 'inspiring'. This Echoleffe sounds pretty ok but I would Never trade T3 for it (PS: If one is Unwilling to dedicate a little Time to Learn the functionality of the plugin,...yeah, maybe even reading the manual... then don't blame the software for it Not providing the Full result you had in mind). For instance, learning the various Modulators and each of their many functions and configurations As Well as how they can work Together on a Source is KEY to getting creative yet Useful results from T3. A good understanding of the mega-powerful Routing configs of the delay lines And how the Tap Editor operates is also Crucial. One last thing,.. I was one who regretted my T3 upgrade after some months as well because it just seemed beyond or I wasn't getting useful results. However, since I paid good money for it, I printed out the manual and set full sessions aside to get to grips with it and since then I am quite happy with results.
If mr snake oil had gone to the lengths you wisely do to master T3, and i concur.. then his review might have had some use.. as it is, it's naively ignorant and off the mark.. which i didn't think was part of the White Sea schtik
Seems pretty cool to me. I am with you on auto gaining but the other stuff seems fine and pretty intuitive. To me If you are going to model a hardware box the UI needs to look like the hardware. Now the spinning motor and tape machine.....it's a bit much. I have Slate tape emulator plugin with the same kind of graphics but you can hide it so you only see the VU meter and controls.
"better" interface..... for sales. Not use. Its just a short term mindset. still doesn't emulate tape feedback circuit anywhere near as good as freeware like nasty by Variety of Sound. its a pass from me.
I have been a music producer for more than 20 years. But also a passionate mixing engineer. Most of the time, my mixing-self is on your side. But this time the producer in me really likes the interface which can be a huge inspiration too. So here I'd defo go with this instead of Timeless and Saturn combined.
True timeless is a pain in the ass to tweak for me.
More classic delay plugin or analog emulation is much easier
Darude sat at his desk, staring at the computer screen in front of him. He had been working on a new track for weeks, but he just couldn't seem to get the sound he was looking for. Frustrated, he stood up and began pacing around the room.
As he walked, his eyes landed on an old tape delay in the corner of the room. It was an Echoleffe, a rare and powerful instrument that had been discontinued years ago. Darude had always loved the unique sound it could produce, and he had always wanted to use it in one of his tracks.
On a whim, he sat down at the Echoleffe and began tinkering with its settings. As he played, he began to get a sense of the music he wanted to create.
Finally, after hours of experimentation, Darude hit on the perfect sound. It was a soaring, mesmerizing supersaw, a sound that would come to define his hit single "Sandstorm."
As he listened to the track, Darude knew he had found something special. He couldn't wait to share it with the world, and he knew that "Sandstorm" would be a hit. And so it was, as the song went on to become one of the most iconic and beloved dance tracks of all time, all thanks to the Echoleffe and Darude's creativity and determination.
It's a CP with a little tweak, right?
Eitherway, hilarious haha
@@KOjoe1k67 hehe yah, guilty! still fun tho
Stole my line 🙃📡🕹⚡⚡🏊♂️🏊♂️♨️
I will say, in terms of achieving some glitchy effects and noises, it is cool to be able to automate settings changes and then have it make the same kind of warbles as analog. It would be nice to be able to turn these on and off with a "Trails" button!
Brother, you criticize all these gui's for looking to trashy or cringy with the real world references of screws and such, yet you would not appreciate criticism of your choice of hand decor. Let dev's make their plugins look how they want them to look. Its art, graphic design and self expression.
The UI is part of the product. So, self expression, well yes. The developers are free to create any UI they want on their product. But they should also accept that people will judge the product as it is delivered. My point is: the color of the nail polish does not affect the mixes and mastering that Wytse does. The color of the hair of the developers and their clothing do not affect the product so none of that should be under review... but I think it is fair to judge the UI as this is the primary interface to the functionality that they offer the customer.
So I think Wytse is right to share his opinion on the UI. And you can disagree with him on his opinion. Maybe you love the UI, that's fine. Nonetheless, the UI is part of the product and the product is under review.
I do agree with Wytse that modern computer UI offers so much more possibilities than the old analogue equivalents. How cool would it be if you could "move" the playheads with a certain ratio to increase the delay time between the repeats? How about a knob to change the ratio? And now the heads move with the new ratio set. A user interface on a physical device almost always limits the features that are provided to the customer. Modern UI interface can be designed to offer maximum features to customers. So yeah, I prefer cool new features over of a clumsy resemblance to a decade old machine with limited possibilities.
Self expression in of itself is not a product for sale. If Wytse decided to sell his nails or designs as products, he’d be open to critique from potential buyers.
That’s why it makes sense he might not appreciate criticism of his hand decor, because it’s not a product he is selling that would be open for review. Cheers.
@@strange_delight design some then. I'd love to see and use it.
I bought a Klemt Echolette in the 90’s and fell in love with the warm cavernous tape delay effect that imparts a natural sounding reverb. Even better is the tube section, that is one of the best pre-amps I’ve ever used. I nicknamed it the Voice of God and still use it today as an effects send. Nothings sounds like it.
Echoleffe is inspiring me. Timeless never did.
Wait what? Normally 199? How much is H-Delay or Arturia 201? Thats right... A LOT less and absolutely quality
White Sea: Several people are asking "who is the artist?"
Also,,as usual, your recording is first class!
This plugin was designed to push Wytse over the edge! I realise for a professional studio user that time = money, and you don't want to have to fight against an interface to do something basic. On other hand, I don't want to live in a bland world where everything is utilitarian and functional. You have to reach out to the other side of your brain and get creative sometimes.
It took him like 5 seconds to figure out to click the korneff logo lol. I love the channel almost as much as I love Wytse getting upset with gui's and auto gain hahaha
and also probably there is more enthusiast musicians that are not that good with computers than recording studios. so i'm guessing this is their targeting. these users often pick by design
Isn't a purpose to be aesthetic the function of such user interface and doesn't it have utility in brightening the world?
Honestly, I love Wytse but he's literally the only engineer that hates nice's GUIs 🤣
I've heard a lot of people complain about stuff like the "Analog" button on waves software etc ... But never on cool looking interfaces 🤣✌️
Nah. Echoleffe is apples and Timeless is oranges.
If FabFilter plugins do everything already, why do other plugin companies exist at all? If stock Ableton plugins do everything, why does FabFilter exist at all?
I love Echoleffe, I know for you the interface has it's issues, but it sounds amazing, and if you're actually familiar with the company you'd know the logo thing has always been a thing. Plus, I miss people reading the manual, like on an 1176 for example, a lot of people STILL use it backwards unless they google enough, watch enough videos, or READ THE MANUAL.
Exactly
Man! Man, at least a Finnish man, NEVER read manual. Okay, this was joke (not, Finnish man does not read manual) , BUT basic use of plugins should be so intuitive that there is no need for manual.
Echoleffe is incredible. Dan is the man. His other stuff is so good as well!
Yes, top shelf stuff. Expert. All of it. 5 minutes research and a respectful common sense read of user guide /Help section.. all that.. would have allowed above review to acknowledge all those things.. ☮
As an absolute dubhead this sounds gorgeous. The pitch drag when it changed speed is lovely, I'd gladly use it soth automation. Your analog emulation hate can really be a meme sometimes!
better than El Capistan?
8:00 ; uh no... IF you use this effect creatively and it keeps resetting when you using automation, you take away something you CANNOT do as easily with analog. Making it reset doens't make it better, it makes it worse.
i like analog looking GUIs ... sue me
Me too. I just love watching him rage over these interfaces! When you are used to using analogue equipment, these interfaces make more sense. I find digital interfaces confusing sometimes - but I'm happy using either/or. He misses the point a bit on the shortcomings of analogue gear being modelled as well; those weird glitches are desirable. Although, I do understand that having the option to switch them on/off would make things better for some.
It sounds great - as far as I can judge with the audio on RUclips. And I don't know how I would get these sounds using other plugins; especially as I'd have to hear the sounds first and then try to emulate them. But the GUI really could be more user friendly. It's pretty expensive and I'd need a very good reason to choose it over other alternatives. So, basically, I'd have to trial it and really need exactly what it was offering. I can see it being pretty popular, especially if it is CPU efficient - which I don't know about.
It was lovely to see the tape delay that your late teacher gave you. It could be worth fixing it up and giving it new life - money and time allowing. Thanks!
You can't always judge/compare plugins on the number of features, ya know... Some delays just sound better than others IMO. (And yes, with enough plugins in your chain, you might be able to narrow the gap in sound quality, but then you're running into convenience/usability/time issues.)
Thanks for the video! Honestly, this plugin seems like it sounds pretty good. But... I do colored delays all time with pedestrian plugins. I mean... These things are plugins. You can stack them up in a parallel chain and go nuts. I typically wonder why I need "Analog" delay plugins. I'm not saying it "Sucks" or something. Just wondering why I need it.
I know your against alot of UIs usually the ones you hate are the ones I love..I know everyone has a preference so I respect your opinion.. granted I have this plugin and never knew you could click the logo to another screen lol... so ya they should make it more clear that you can do that..
I still fondly remember Karlette by Cubase VST. it was heavenly...
Honestly, how many more vintage tape delay plugins do we need?
But I think "Saturn on Timeless" will not have only different feedback artefacts saturating differently from each other, but will react to the whole sound, which I think this doesn't.
Even though, maybe if Fabfilter got their different plugins to interconnect... Hmmm.... That would be cool! Like connecting different instances of saturn to individual delay heads, in a plugin or reverbs, etc...
Bro what is the last track that you're working with in this video? That thang jams
We all know music technology peaked with the "Space Echo". This is just flimflam.
Thanks for the review!
This is one of my favourite software delays, never been a fan of timeless interface although you may have tempted me to give it another try but this sounds fantastic IMO.
the Timeless UI is sort of what keeps me away too, despite it being excellent in sound
@@essmunson also hate the timeless UI - makes me feel stupid lol. Ive tried, but i dont want to pour through a manual to get it
I enjoy how it sounds. Are all the knobs automatable? Seems like it would be fun to mess with while it is working. I can't justify $200. I'm going to go mess with the echo cat from wavesfactory I already have. It has much of the same functionality.
I've been enjoying CHOW Tape Model with Softube's tube delay for stuff like this. Since we're talking digital plugins, why limit yourself with something like this when you can use any type of delay with any kind of saturation, as well as having more flexibility with routing? Choosing to have the delay before or after some tape warble, as one example, can give us a lot more creative freedom.
I'll name you one thing that most other delays can do that this can't (at least without a delay bus and dual instances and settings) and that's a simple ping pong.
*I think the real research is that people perceive vintage sound as ever more authentic, the more vintage the UI looks.
I'd love to see the interface research...
Korneff is one of the few 3rd party plugin brands we still use,outside stock S1
Wytse, I couldn't agree more with your comments on the interface design. The plugin sounds pretty good, but just watching you fight through figuring out the controls made me exhausted.
75% about how much you dislike the GUI...oh man...
A sax player friend of mine kept using the original decades after it was built (of course it had maintenance during that time). I really loved the sound and regarded it as one of the best sounding tape delays I ever heard: it was just musical in it's filtering and combination of reverb and delay.
I can't say much about the plugin, as I haven't tested it yet: but I'd rather spend an end price of 99 bucks on it just for the reverb and delay functionality, without the saturation nonsense being worth nothing at all to me (half a dozen plugins do that in various ways for me): really not willing to pay any amount of money for these completely unnecessary bells and whistles.
After getting Valhalla delay I can't imagine needing another delay ever again. Sometimes I get my Watkins ic400 varispeed out, but even the free plugin version of that is okay! Still not as fun as the real thing of course
I've lost count of the number of delays I have, but I always reach for Valhalla Delay first and the others rarely get used these days.
Valhalla delay had been my go to since it first came out
A $199 vintage emulation delay... today... after we have got how many?...a dozen in the last year? It sounds really good ok, but too pricey, too much cpu load, and too many good competitors. Maybe can be interesting when next version code will tax less the cpu and will be sensibly discounted. For now as Wytse said, you can do it faster and same quality with 1 or 2 other much more established products or with a quarted of that price can get you a Valhalla tool 😎
Im with ya... between Saturn and Timeless I rarely need more in terms of space and saturation... Probably my two most go tooz... its hard to justify isnt it...
We need a restauration video of the Echolette!
Ohh, check out his other plugins. Your head will explode. Like changing diodes and stuff, really cool
"name me something this one plugin can do that I can't do with two more versatile plugins" Probably not alot but that could be said in most instances with any plugins.
I really have no desire to buy saturation plugins I have a couple and that's all I've really needed. But I have to say, the saturation on this actually sounded legit. It's like the perfect saturation character I hope to hear when I open black box or something but I always end up feeling disappointed. Like this kinda sounds like a mic'd up cab and you're hearing the speaker being driven a bit too hot rather than harsh sounding distortion. Might grab this bad boy just for that. Edit: Just saw the price - NOPE.
I think the saturation on this sounds a cut above other similar delay plugins. Really lovely sounding. But at $200 it’s a bit too steep for me
Your missing the point, why would you not want it to act like what it was modeled after?? Your saying to make digital work better, we’ll there are delays that don’t work like this unit, hence those plugins are not modeled after this delay.
You completely missed the point of this plug-in.
Does it do what it was modeled to do? Yes, plain and simple
I agree, that's the thing. If you want a "only plugin" approach, you go with your DAW one, or Fabfilter (as he says). This is a different thing.
And interface designt matters! Doesn't sound, but it matters completely.
It still think it is a missed opportunity. Sure if you intent to make a perfect replica of the device nothing stops you from considering cool new features that were not possible on the old hardware version but are easy to implement in a digital recreation. Have a setting that switching between "authentic" and "advanced" functionality and offer the features that the designers of the hardware wished they could offer but couldn't because of hardware restrictions.
I would love a tape echo device that actually can move its playheads apart with a certain ratio between the playheads and this ratio can be continuously adjusted and automated. This would give you a very cool sound effect which is only viable in digital recreations.
Yo, guys, what track is he using? I so much like this horns, maybe I can sample them)
The way it pitches when you change time is rad.
What about the Korneff Amp plugin for guitar?
there is a link button on the input output control
I've got to imagine that the age of adults buying $200 audio plugins with skeuomorphic designs so they can pretend that they are using some rare esoteric piece of hardware must be coming to an end. No judgment - I am also (very) guilty. That being said, the busier that I get and the more that I need a variety of good delay sounds, the more I appreciate Valhalla Delay - one great GUI and all of the beautiful sounds that I could need for $50.
Maybe it sounds insane and it's the real deal or whatever but that GUI looks like an eyesore with all those white reflections on the main panel and shadows on the second one, how was that even a better design decision? How does that specifically help me the user to work better? Also physical in/out that doesn't work, and a rotating motor? Because I reaaaally need all those on the interface *eyeroll* I don't hate skeuomorphic, but when it's done like this it just makes me look the other way. I actually liked the stars backdrop and golden accents on blue haha everything else.. meh. Timeless has a ton of stuff on it but at least it's readable, which on that note, this font they chose for all the parameters, nope.
I used to have an Echoplex. My God I loved it. It was stolen from me. It was years ago and I still want justice! Good movie plot? 'Her Echoplex was stolen and she seeks revenge, revenge, revenge'. I'd go see it. 🧡
Stealing an echoplex from someone is like stealing a harley davidson… Dumb…
This should have been the plot of Taken.
I'm still waiting for the echoes on the trailer to end. Revenge, revenge, revenge, revenge...
@@jacobseal I will look for you, I will find you , and I will loop you...you..you..you..you
@@AutPen38 They will never end in my head..head..head..head..head
Complaining about UI when he says at the beginning out of bunch of other plugs, this cought his attention!!! :) Hahaha. Great review. Thank you?
It caught his attention because he owns the original hardware version.
@@Wasaia good point.
Anyone knows what track he's playing ?
I think plugin interfaces should be clear! When I want to get to the business of mixing I don't want to mess around trying to figure out what is where, when it can be simply written. Clever creativity is important and a reflection of a clear and thorough thought process.
You should check out the Tape Delay from Airwindows, if you don't like wasted ui space in plugins.
the name of the song please, it´s so good. it sounds like donald byrd or Manu Dibango
These plungin builders, should just add a condensed UI option.
I for myself do not like hardware emulation plugins. Most of the time I don't get what they do, as you can't see it (except them knobs) you can hear some of it. I do like to SEE what a plugin does (frequency etc) I do get why some like those, as older producers had the hardware (or stil have) I tried a few and well I will not buy them (most of these are often way to expensive too) I would rather get a kirchoff,fab filter or any other software plugin where you see what they are doing to the sound.
What's the track being used in the demo?
I like the sound a lot from this plugin. The saturation sounds really musical. Never used it myself though, but might try it now.
LOL. I sent this suggestion to Wytse anticipating his review. It was wonderfully as expected. I had the hardware back in the day with a partner who still has it and has taken better care of his than Wytse has. It has a crap ton of tone that I can get at more easily than I can with my FF plugs. Wytse is likely quite different in this regard as he likely has a great deal of time invested in his FF plugs that I don't have beyond the Pro Q3 and MB. Anyway, great review Wytse, I have to agree that this thing is plenty goofy, but so was the hardware, and to my ears the plug is a solid emulation of real good sounding piece of hardware. As an aside, don't review the Pawn Shop, as it'll make you nuts too, even though it can be pretty special on vocals.
Ha, this is the perfect occasion to ask you something: I got a tape machine from the late 60ies. It also got DIN on the backside. where did you solder what to convert it to XLR?
can you check out the new compressor plugin based on AI by Tone Empire?
Valhalla delay is still my go to
It's not bad. For the price I probably wouldn't get it. Martinic has the lem echo for 40 dollars that sounds nice as well.
can i ask who remixed this version of sandstorm?
I tried it. It sounds nice but it's a CPU killer.
Is the Dolby Atmos video on its way is your Client requesting Dolby-atmos?
Will u be upgrading your Studio for atmos or just work in Dolby atmos binaural headphones mode?
I suppose my question is - why? Like, what does this do that’s unique?
I had Echolette in 60s-70s. It's pretty amazing though I gave it a nickname "noise generator". Ok, maybe the tape was worn out and tape heads dirty. But nothing beats its warm echo sound, I always remember my Echolette when plugin sellers try to promote some new "analog, warm sounding" plugins.
Have you tried Aural ID from Genelec?
the test song is so funky, what is that?
does your microphone every turn into a robot that can take off and fly and catch bad tones before they hit tape?
if possible, also let us know how much of a CPU hog these plugins chew into. Thanks.
RBB-Keys🎹
Sounds great....LOTS of tweaking options. Too many perhaps???
I appreciate these programmers trying to be creative by really going to town with their GUI's.......but sometimes I think they could use some editors 🙄. This is one of those plugins that can create option anxiety, if you know what I mean 🤔😳
Most of these sounds can be achieved with the Echoboy, or any number of dlys that have a drive and "warble" function. Between the Echoboy and one of those wacky Hainbach plugins, I'm set for clean to dirty vintage dly effects 😊
You’ll find with the Echoleffe that it can be as simple or as complex as you wish. There’s also a fun Random button, if you just feel like getting something cool and then tweeking.
Have you used Weiss Compressor / Limiter plug-in that's suppose to be an exact replica of the DS1-MK3 hardware?
Does White Sea Studio have a discord server??
LOVE your videos!
5:35 I think this is pretty common. Oversampling, extra options, etc. Still not really necessary or even ideal tbh
"Do we need another plugin?" After having Black Friday GAS, I was inspired by watching Justin Colletti remix a song that Michael Brauer is known for by using only DAW plugins. Yup. It turned out just as professional and radio ready. (Minus stylistic choices of course). So... No. Probably don't need that new plugin.
Tukan Studios (jsfx for reaper) has some cool tape saturation and delay plugins and best of all there free. Have you checked them out?
Beside question: Is the AMEK Mastering Compressor a Peep-Show or your big brother?
belive it computers existed in the 1960s, and people were making music on computers since the 1950s! (This is why I try and ignore most young people on RUclips -- they don't know near as much as the older dudes over on Sweetwater lol)
Is that song Dandstorm by Sarude?
I think it is
This plugin (and review) does nothing for the resale value on my original echolette, I did use it once (or twice). The original is a bit of a one trick pony and it does the trick well. I used the 3rd tap alot on long. And a first tap on short does a nice re201 thing on vox. I'll probably get the plug in so I can sell the hardware. Haven't turned it on in a few years. Was hoping a good plugin would bump up the value.
Was kind of hoping you would touch on the GPU acceleration option and what exactly it does
presumably lets you use gpu ram for the over-engineered interface to save on system ram
FF Timeless 3 is a fantastic and powerful plugin. It just takes TIME and practice to get what one may Actually Desire from it (justxas Timeless 2 always did). As with all FF plugs, watch out for the presets because most Aren't good and seemed like rushed or Highly specialized presets (in my experience). In this respect (that the plugin takes Time and Practice) I can see wheresome may find it less 'inspiring'. This Echoleffe sounds pretty ok but I would Never trade T3 for it (PS: If one is Unwilling to dedicate a little Time to Learn the functionality of the plugin,...yeah, maybe even reading the manual... then don't blame the software for it Not providing the Full result you had in mind). For instance, learning the various Modulators and each of their many functions and configurations As Well as how they can work Together on a Source is KEY to getting creative yet Useful results from T3. A good understanding of the mega-powerful Routing configs of the delay lines And how the Tap Editor operates is also Crucial. One last thing,.. I was one who regretted my T3 upgrade after some months as well because it just seemed beyond or I wasn't getting useful results. However, since I paid good money for it, I printed out the manual and set full sessions aside to get to grips with it and since then I am quite happy with results.
If mr snake oil had gone to the lengths you wisely do to master T3, and i concur.. then his review might have had some use.. as it is, it's naively ignorant and off the mark.. which i didn't think was part of the White Sea schtik
Seems pretty cool to me. I am with you on auto gaining but the other stuff seems fine and pretty intuitive. To me If you are going to model a hardware box the UI needs to look like the hardware. Now the spinning motor and tape machine.....it's a bit much. I have Slate tape emulator plugin with the same kind of graphics but you can hide it so you only see the VU meter and controls.
It has style.
"better" interface..... for sales. Not use. Its just a short term mindset. still doesn't emulate tape feedback circuit anywhere near as good as freeware like nasty by Variety of Sound. its a pass from me.
mmm…now your focussing too much on the interfaces i think. Thought it sounded very nice.
You have become mundane and repetitive. It's time to stop complaining about Auto gain and why you hate realistic analog interfaces.
Video starts at 6:22
in the never ending pursuit of trying to be cool for the client.
This was my favorite version of Darude by Sandstorm. Oh wait...
Roland made one of these in hardware too. The RE201.
I think that (all due respect, and no pun intendede) that you are not their target...
I love ur honesty.
Just another fancy delay plug, among many.
Hahah it's personal 😆box-office bomb
You should probably learn the tools and listen before shitting on them like this :/ Check the comments for an alternate take.
Actually the Pulsar Echorec is pretty fun 🤗
i use it a lot
A delay for $199! Just forget it, especially there are other options out there. No offense, please. Cheers.