Admiral Nguyen's hatred for Mars is so profound, pure and visceral, that it's scary. He was willing to throw the protomolecule on their planet and condemn literally billions of lives and he was visibly pleased by that. Dude was a menace.
"I am that guy." Four simple words, but set up by so much that had come before, and Wes Chatham's delivery, the impact on all of us in the audience was like a tsunami.
Amos going from not understanding that he scared that kids mother on Tycho to saving Prax’s humanity so he can be a whole person and father is the greatest character arc of all time
Also how he was caught off guard when he was totally loyal to Naomi, but in season 1 when Holden revealed that he was the one who flagged the message from the Scopuli (everyone else thought it was Ava) she hadn't told him. He asked her why not and when she says "I don't know..." Amos realizes in horror "you were afraid of me?" he's so devastated he has to walk away. It's such a Eureeka moment here with Prax, finally he's getting it right. He may actually find his way back to humanity!
This show is probably the best sci-fi show I have ever watched, up there with BattleStar Galactica for me. The bromance between Prax and Amos is one of the best character arcs, and Amos protecting Prax from the damage killing someone’s would do to such a pure person as Prax, Amos is a true hero.
People sometimes forget that the first time we ever saw Avarsarala, she was gravity-torturing a belter until he committed suicide. She’s arguable just as culpable as the rest of the UN politicians.
She 100% is, but some of the stuff she does has to be charged to the game. The job she has comes with a baseline amount of blood on its hands. She isn't cruel, she doesn't delight in it, and in the books we have access to her thoughts and shes as good someone in that position, in that world, could be. I vote for her to rule Earth tomorrow if she was on a ballot.
@@nrran6835 spoken like a true westerner, you people could justify genocide as long as i was within your interests, in fact currently you're doing exactly that
@@mrglassbadguy485 please, mr perfect knowledge of humanity - specify for us a civilization/culture that has NOT endorsed or promoted such actions when the situation was dire enough? We're waiting.
@@mrglassbadguy485 name an eastern nation/leader that doesn't also match that description. Eastern/Western isn't different in that regard, every nation has always sided with its own interests.
I think you are misrepresenting why he killed himself. It wasn’t because the torture made him lose the will to live, he killed himself so they’d never get the information out of him. Nothing in The Expanse is black and white, just like the world we live in.
if you look around on youtube you can find a video of some of the cast and writers watching that scene for the first time, and wes chatham's reaction to it is delightful
I just always like to praise Dr. Strickland's Actor Ted Atherton, it takes commitment to play such a despicable bastard, and the "I'm that guy" just works because of how slimy and disgusting he made his character feel.
I think JP Mao fits into the category described by Anderson Dawes as "bad men do things believing it is for the good of mankind". Like many things in The Expanse, it's in several subtle complex shades of grey overlaid all at once. He thinks he's doing good. He's trying to protect mankind, but also be the one at the top with all the control and resulting wealth, and he doesn't really have qualms about the human cost or collateral damage. He had tears for Julie and concern for Mei when he saw her in-person rather than as a figure in a spreadsheet, but his personal bigger picture still wins out when it comes to the crunch. Amos was schooling Prax as best he could, but you could see that he had some concerns that Prax was getting too dark, too much like Amos himself. Watch his look when Prax dumps the martian corpse a couple of episodes back. Also when Prax talks about getting even. Stopping Prax following through with the execution of Strickland was the intervention to save Prax's soul from fully stepping onto the dark path. I think you may missed Amos' look of surprise when Prax told Mei that he was his best friend in the whole world. There was a lot going on. More great face acting from Wes. So much conveyed in so little, sometimes no, words.
I think Mao's attitude is very close to Dresden's. He wants to find out the Protomolecule's mission and figure out a way to stop it, as well as gain knowledge for broader interests than weapons research. Souther's death hurt my feelings and broke my heart. He'd been a good guy all along. His error was not prepping his people to broadcast Avasarala's message the moment he made his move. He was expecting too much honor from Nguyen. Nguyen also had no justification to destroy the Jiminez. Martian Captain Kirino was smart: "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake." Napoleon Bonaparte I think that sailor gave Cotyar her gun so that he could shoot her. "I feel like I've had enough emotions." LOL. This book finale hands you a one-two punch right into the feelz. You're still reeling from the first punch when it hits you with the second punch. That Amos/Prax bromance was deep. They did an excellent job of making us really want to see Strickland killed without mercy. Even though Praxidike means "revenge," the writers did a wonderful job subverting his path in that direction. You weren't ready for that. None of us was. "I am that guy" must be the most predictable line of dialog in all of television (normally a sign of bad writing), but the writers set us up in such delicious anticipation that we would have been disappointed not to hear it. There has been fan discussion of why Proto-Katoa looked upward at the last moment. Some think it's because there was still enough Belter child Katoa left for him to be in awe of being outside on the surface. Others (including me) believe it's because he heard the "Up!" command from the Protomolecule mother lode. All the book finales are great, but this is my favorite and most satisfying. Unfortunately, The Expanse received absolutely no television industry recognition. That was certainly a crime.
If I remember correctly, one of the book writers confirmed the theory of Katoa still retaining some of his mind. It makes that moment even darker if you ask me. A child, in excruciating pain, trying to fathom what happen to him.
While you don't want to be too predictable in writing, you also don't want to be so unpredictable that it feels like it's coming out of nowhere. Ideally you want around a half to three quarters of your audience to predict the thing _immediately_ before it happens, that's where you get the most punch.
1:10:39 You seem to have a misunderstanding about governance. The overall arc of a leader's decisions *in a democracy* is , and can never be anything other, than doing what will get one elected or re-elected. If that seems somehow hollow to you, then what is your alternative? If you want a _benign_ dictator, *that person is still a dictator no matter how much you agree with them on this or that topic.* Don't try to _purity test_ some leader. Judge them on their overall ability to make the choices that reflect their constituents.
And now you know why the podcast/youtube show hosted by Ty Franck (who co-wrote the books) and Wes Chatham is called "Ty and That Guy". I think Prax and Amos' friendship is a big part of Amos healing (though being in the Roci family is another big part of that). Amos thought he was just helping Prax find Mae, but when Prax told Mae that Amos was his best friend, parts of Amos' damaged psyche cracked through. He's never going to be entirely undamaged, but he realises he isn't as broken as he thought. He discovers that he doesn't have to just be a killer, he can be a protector too (though usually by killing bad guys). Now on to the story of James And The Giant Ring
the way it was probably so easy for prax to say "this is amos, my best friend in the whole world" because he has such a big heart that's used to giving and receiving love!! but amos burton, a man who has lived most of his life without that kind of love, was probably so taken aback and utterly changed by that simple sentence. goddamn. it's been well over a year since i saw this for the first time and i still think about it at least once a week, i swear to god. I'LL NEVER FORGET.
AND THEN. THE INHERENT TRUST PRAX SHOWED AMOS BY ASKING MEI IF SHE WOULD STAY WITH AMOS FOR A MINUTE. HE KNEW WITHOUT ASKING, WITHOUT QUESTION, WITHOUT HESITATION THAT AMOS WOULD WATCH HER AND THAT SHE WOULD BE SAFE WITH HIM. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH THAT PROBABLY MEANT TO AMOS??/ FUCK. I'LL NEVER BE OKAY AGAIN.
I love the fact that this website is full of reactors just full-on cheering and celebrating as one of the main characters coldly blows off the head of an unarmed man. I mean, it's the objectively correct reaction. I just think it speaks to the quality of the show's writing, since normally that sort of thing is at least a little less overtly celebrated, lol.
26:52 in the version of this that aired on SyFy back in the day he does actually say "fricking". the swears started coming out a lot more once the show got picked up by amazon
Great reaction! I can't express just how much I love this show! To say this is my favorite episode is an understatement. To many great moments in these two episodes! Souther, Naomi explaining to Holden, Alex's son message, Bobbie, Cotyar, and I know everyone's favorite is " I am that guy!" Which is amazing, but to be honest when Amos became our reluctant damaged hero to save his best friends soul so he can be a good father to Mea by stopping him " You're not that guy..you're not that guy!" 😭😭 Looking forward to the next one!
Regarding a TTRPG: The Expanse began as a proposal for an MMO, then when that didn't come to fruition, it became a home-grown TTRPG. They then turned that into the book series, which became the TV show. Once the TV show aired, both a board game and a TTRPG were released. The board game is out of print and kind of hard to find now, but the TTRPG is still readily available. So it almost came full circle.
The tragedy of Katoa is that part of him was still there, despite becoming a hybrid. This was confirmed by one of the writers on their podcast. He moves different from the other hybrids, different body language too. When Bobbie is waiting on the ladder, the Katoa hybrid peered around the corner like a little kid. When the Katoa hybrid finally has her, he doesn't kill her. Instead his attention is drawn to the horizon and then the sky. Its pretty heartrending when you realise its because Katoa, whose a Belter, has never been outside in his life. There's almost a look of wonder on the hybrid's face as it looks up at Io's sky. So in a way Strickland was right, the genetic disease that the kids have did stifle the proto-molecule somewhat, if only to allow them to keep some of their minds, even as their bodies transformed. Its pretty cruel when you think about it. Also the writing for Errinwright was just masterfull. Errinwright said something in season 2 after he betrayed Chrisjen, framing her as working with Mao and Mars to the General Secretary. He says something like "she's like a mother to me". I really think he meant that, as its implied that Chrisjen mentored him, with the good and bad that came with that. Chrisjen as she starts out the show was an extremist, theres that scene of her having that belter tortured. Its very likely her "Earth first" stance fed young Errinwirght's own extremism. Only Chrisjen when through an arc which changed her, and Errinwright continued down that path. I remember hearing a Bible story of an evil Israelite king, he went soo far as to sacrifice children, some of his own included. Now the story goes that in his old age, he repented, and tried to become a better person. When he died his son accended the throne and went back to all the nasty shit his dad used to do. It struck me that even though the old king had changed, he had already brought his son up in his old ways, and so he had kinda doomed his son to repeat his wrongs. This story came to mind 2 years ago when I watched a news special about a cult in Korea. A man had joined the cult, and he brought in his wife, and two sons, then aged 12 and 10. Years later, he broke free of the cult's conditioning, but when he tried to escape with his family they rejected him and he had to make his getaway alone. In the interview he expressed his grief at losing his family, but also extreme guilt because it was he who took them in to be indoctrinated. But even then it doesn't take away the element of choice, whatever Errinwright learned from Chrisjen, he chose to take it to its extreme conclusion. Compare this with Julie Mao, who saw what her father truely was, and rejected him to forge her own path.
actually it has been clarified that the Katoa hybrid is not "looking at the sky" it is the PM interacting with the Venus complex wich is about to launch itself off the planet momentarily.
@@ZakhadWOW Ty Franck confirmed the whole Katoa's mind still being there theory on his and Wes Chatham's podcast. But thats the great thing about this show, it lets you make you own conclusions rather than spoon feed you.
56:20 Actually i got a different take from that. She finally was able to get closure on her teammates and used her arm wrestling skills to good use against that suit. I found it a bittersweet moment. 😉
"I am that guy." Four little words with so much history, so much emotion, and Amos is getting back at all of the people who hurt him when he was Mei's age in Baltimore.
I think Mao honestly saw the protomolecule as a bullet that was launched toward Earth by an alien species. You have to remember the protomolecule is a technology and not a biological entity. Think of it more as a nanite. He is trying to figure out a way to weaponize it in the name of humanity for the attack which he feels has already been launched. At the same time, he also sees that he has an opportunity to make some money off it as a weapons manufacturer. His motivations are very complicated and he feels justified in extreme measures because in his mind he is fighting for the survival of the human race.
I've always thought Mao was genuinely concerned about finding a way to use the protomolecule to protect Earth agains an incursion by a technologically advanced alien civilization. His opinion, I think, was not too far from that of Dr. Dresden, from whom he probably got a lot of opinions and advice. We arrive at the Caliban tale in the middle of its telling. The Caliban Project was already well underway when Mei got sucked into it, with hundreds of Calibans already being maintained in storage, and the facilities on Io fully modified to carry on the ongoing research, store the pods, and obtain the ability to launch them rapidfire. It must have been underway for months if not years. I can't really figure out how the weapons project meshes with the idea of finding a way to resist the perceived alien threat. The Calibans seem targeted at killing human beings, and they are not controllable. My best guess is that selling weapons would be a fine way to fund any ongoing research projects, but I'm not sure that killing off humanity is the best way to save it from alien domination. After mulling over this finale', I concluded that a storyline showing us mad scientists putting little kids through deadly experiments was an easy and cheap way of creating bad guys to produce dramatic tension and provide a fine catharsis when the good guys finally terminate them with extreme prejudice. The brilliance of The Expanse is in how it can take such a cheesy storyline and present it in a way that the viewers never really get sidetracked and stop to think about the story. We just flow with it like a raft caroming through Class 5 rapids. As for Mao's waffling once he gets to Io, I think it is easier to read a report about a company project than it is to show up in person and see the human cost. Dr. Strikland was making good progress in churning out weapons to be sold, but he wasn't really doing anything to save humanity from the creators of the protomolecule. But when the half-transformed Katao revealed he was in communication with the protomolecule, that allowed Mao to easily reverse himself as to the value of the Caliban Project. Here was a development that would assist mankind in learning about the protomolecule, its goals, and its origins, so he gave Dr. Strickland a green light to proceed, no matter what casualties would result.
The Expanse, amongst everything else, finds the perfect balance of poeple getting exactly what they deserve and people getting exactly what other people deserve.
i think while it does look to spread, the fact its lethal is merely an unintended side effect, it wants to learn about any type of system and incorporate it into its knowledge to build. there is no intention of killing
so many other shows would have killed Mai and had praxs story end super downbeat cos too many shows equate misery and death with drama(E.G shows about walking zombies, magical dragons and outlaw motorcycle gangs)but The Expanse never does that, it doesn't need to lean on "shock" to create great moments. It's also one of the few shows that can have an antagonist not be evil or just pure "villain"...and also(!) no character is just plan stupid and does dumb shit cos the writer wanted to move the plot along faster, as a viewer you understand why most characters are doing what they do.
YES! It requires a lot of skill in so many areas. And agree@@kirkdarling4120 it was kind of a relief seeing as I hated occasionally feeling bad for Errinwright and Mao 🤣
that scene is definitely one of the best scenes ever written.. so good.. the fact that Prax called Amos his best friend, when Amos really doesnt understand it.. its so Good.
Of all the reactions to the "I am that guy" lead up and scene, yours is my favorite. What a great reaction and commentary. What a send off for Errinwright, one of my favorite villains. one thing that the SG is forgetting is that all the sh&t that Errinwright pulled happened under the SG's watch. In those wide shots of Bobbie and the Hybrid on the ground you'll notice a giant horizon wide volcanic plume in the background. Io is known for it's giant volcanoes. It's essy to miss because we're focused on the characters.
I just picked up on something that I hadn't realized when I watched this before or read the books. The advances in ships that Duarte gets at the end of the show, comes from these episodes. The protomolecule reacting with the ships is what gives Duarte what he needs to build HIS new ship.
A few villians of this show are more complex than they look on the surface. Since they lie and manipulate a lot, we tend to think they only care about themselves and about their simple villian motivation, but that's not true Errinwright was in fact a total patriot. Everything he did he did because he thought that the war between Earth and Mars was inevitable and that the timeline was this: Earth wins if they fight now, Mars wins if they fight in 5 years. This he knew based on all his life in politics and all the war assessments from the experts on the UN council. The only way we the audience kind of know this is false is that we know (or really just *hope*) that a diplomatic solution exists. That if Earth doesn't start the war, Mars will be totally cool towards Earth when they have the upper hand. I get him. I think I would even agree with him if I had only the info he has and was an Earther. I feel like it wouldn't be a horrible world in which Mars had the upper hand, but would you bet your world on that? Jules Pier Mao is certainly a narcissist. But he is also a longtermist. People in extremely high positions of power often are like that. To him, humanity is a thing to be cherished and protected. Human life is worth X in average. So, of course, sacrificing a few nameless ones for a greater, long term good, is totally fine. Not just fine but probably something that only someone in his position could manage. So a "visionary" gets a hold of the "most important" discovery of all of history: the protomolecule. What is he to do? Should he give it to the UN or the MCR? In the middle of a cold war? Either side is extremely corruptible and would use it for war or for petty, short sighted gain. So he worked it himself. Experimented on under his own rules because what's 100k deaths compared to the potential that the protomolecule has. And when things got really heated and his experiment backfired... that's when his narcissism kicks in. Honestly, not many people in the world are mentally tough enough to pilot an extreme gamble of politics and life and accept defeat. Avasaralla is, and so is Fred Johnson, but most people would just double down. So he compromised. And dealt with the governments while maintaining control over the science of the thing. He is a lot like the scientist that got shot by Miller only *much* less convicted and *much* more powerful. The doctor was a clear psicopath, though. Which is ok. Lots of people are actually like that. He didn't do what he did for a greater good, nor did he did it for glory like Mao. He didn't do it because he enjoys cruelty or killing kids. He was just a very curious person who doesn't value the life of others. Obviously he would sacrifice anyone to save himself. I didn't really hate him. I was just like "yeap, he needs to die". In fact, the thing I really hate about both him and Mao is that they never discovered anything useful about the protomolecule, for all their efforts and all the people they sacrificed.
Personally, I do think that Mao's main motivation is understanding the protomolecule because of the existential threat it presents to humanity. The problem is that he is a wealthy industrialist who is undoubtedly not concerned about the who or what gets destroyed in his pursuits. It's the kind of attitude that leads to becoming an insanely wealthy industrialist. One of the fascinating aspects of this show is the different ways different people react to the extraterrestrial threat to human life. This is Maos, Chrisjen comes to the understanding that all of humanity must come together to face it, giving up her Earth first doctrine. Errinwright doubles down on Earth first. Jim and the crew just see the damage it's doing to regular people and try to help the best they can. The bad guy scientists just seem interested in the project, lacking any compassion. The great thing about the writing is that there is no completely right character, nor completely wrong. Great show! Loving your reaction to it.
Folks get hopping mad when a puppy or a child is harmed, but do not blink at all when thousands of regular folk get killed. It's a phenomenon I notice almost everywhere I go. A Greyhound bus goes off a cliff, 50 people died, folks say, "that sucks". Then they hear two of those people were children and they go on and on about it being such a tragedy, and suddenly care more. I find it odd, but it happens so often. Does human life matter, or only when you know the person or it's a kid? Curious.
Interestingly, The Expanse started off as a pitch to create an MMO but when the company realised who much it would cost they backed out. From there Ty Franck took the pitch and turned it into a TTRPG using a homebrew version of D20 Modern. One of the players in that campaign was Daniel Abraham (who's character would go on to become Miller). Franck & Abraham took some of the characters from the RPG (with the players permission) and formed the pen name James S A Corey and wrote Leviathan Wakes based on the events of that campaign. So yeah. The Expanse totally started out as a MMO pitch that turned into a D20 based 'D&D style' RPG
I don't know if anyone has recommended this to you, but the writers of The Expanse did some tie in novellas to the Book Series. One of them is called "The Churn" which tells the story of Amos' traumatic upbringing in Baltimore. He had a really messed up childhood that shapes a lot of who he is now.
I love how 3x6 seems to resolve everything - as long as you stop it 20 seconds from the end. If you don't... wtf is the giant alien spaceship going to do?!?!
I love all the bad guys in this show, they're so good at being slimy. Strictland doing everything to save his life is so gooood! "I love her!" etc. just trying all the manipulative tricks in the book.
*Minor book spoiler* In the book the hybrids launched from Io go crazy inside Nguyen ship and infect everyone inside turning them into a horde of protomolecule zombies sprinting for anyone not infected and vomiting black goo on them which turns them also, very horifying. And James goes in with a vac suit and confronts Nguyen and shoots him in the neck.
I think Jules saw the benefit of protomolecure to resurrect something. I think he was trying to understand it and then make it resurrect his dead wife.
Such a amazing pair of episodes. Every time I hear Prax say, "This is Amos, he's my best friend in the whole world", it brings tears to my eyes. Such a beautiful, earned moment. Also, is there anything more badass and cathartic as "I am that guy"? Hope you're ready for what's next, because shit's about to get WEIRD!!!
I love the relationship between Amos and Prax. Amos has accepted his soul is already lost. By shooting Strickland, in his way, he's doing what he could to save Prax's.
I feel Jules being a tech manufacturer is most likely experiencing a little bit of both. Sunk costs and responsibilities having opened this can of worms and also seeing what benefits could be brought to humanity if they can solve this puzzle and combine this tech with ours. I don't think he's truly evil, I think he is doing evil things for a very grand and noble reason, to advance humanity... he's just going about it in an inhumane and dangerous way thanks to the scientists he has on his team. I would argue those scientists are closer to evil, Jules is just dabbling in evil. We saw love in his heart after all but, it's not enough to conquer that ambition. It's shoved in our face at the end of this episode that there really is two proto-molecule problems, what humans will do with it and what it is trying to do itself... and it certainly has a goal.
There is a D&D style "Expanse" game - it's published by Green Ronin. Haven't played it yet, but it looks like fun :) BTW - you know that the Expanse grew out of D&D-style game originally, right?
@@remliqa IIRC from what Ty Franck has said, he began it as GM for a play-by-mail campaign; when Shed's player dropped out of the game he killed off the character, and they were away :) I believe Ty spent some time trying to sell the concept as a video game before he and Daniel decided to turn it into a series of novels...
I don't want to excuse Mao's actions. He's a poor excuse for a human being. That said, his main motivator from the start of the series until now has been existential dread. The existence of the proto-molecule has put the fear of God in him and he thinks it's worth ANYTHING to be able to understand it and control it. He believes its existence in the solar system is an extinction-level event, which is how he's been able to justify things like Eros to himself. Of course, like most criminally rich assholes, he believes HE'S the only person who can control it and is the right person to lead the system into the future, hence capitalising on the PM to make himself richer as well as trying to control it.
Ya but this tech is billions of years old. Controlling it now would be no different than a human finding an ancient club buried in the ground and thinking they can fight against a nuclear bomb. The aliens should have advanced far beyond this tech, assuming they continued to advance. I won't put any spoilers regarding this.
Episode 6 of season 3 is one of the favorites of the series so many memorable moments the back half was where the series first ended before Jeff Bezos and Amazon saved it.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
James Holden putting Jules Pierre Mao on his knees in front of Avasarala who is WEARING JULIE MAO'S FLIGHT SUIT was SO satisfying.
Admiral Nguyen's hatred for Mars is so profound, pure and visceral, that it's scary. He was willing to throw the protomolecule on their planet and condemn literally billions of lives and he was visibly pleased by that. Dude was a menace.
"I am that guy." Four simple words, but set up by so much that had come before, and Wes Chatham's delivery, the impact on all of us in the audience was like a tsunami.
Amos going from not understanding that he scared that kids mother on Tycho to saving Prax’s humanity so he can be a whole person and father is the greatest character arc of all time
Acted perfectly by Wes Chatham. He really understands that character.
And it's basically just the beginning of his arc.
Also how he was caught off guard when he was totally loyal to Naomi, but in season 1 when Holden revealed that he was the one who flagged the message from the Scopuli (everyone else thought it was Ava) she hadn't told him. He asked her why not and when she says "I don't know..." Amos realizes in horror "you were afraid of me?" he's so devastated he has to walk away. It's such a Eureeka moment here with Prax, finally he's getting it right. He may actually find his way back to humanity!
This show is probably the best sci-fi show I have ever watched, up there with BattleStar Galactica for me. The bromance between Prax and Amos is one of the best character arcs, and Amos protecting Prax from the damage killing someone’s would do to such a pure person as Prax, Amos is a true hero.
bruh, good to know im not the only one who has to say "criminal scum" anytime someone says "stop right there" xD
Wow, such a great double reaction. So many fantastic moments: "This is Amos. He's my best friend in the whole world." On to Book 3.
People sometimes forget that the first time we ever saw Avarsarala, she was gravity-torturing a belter until he committed suicide. She’s arguable just as culpable as the rest of the UN politicians.
She 100% is, but some of the stuff she does has to be charged to the game. The job she has comes with a baseline amount of blood on its hands. She isn't cruel, she doesn't delight in it, and in the books we have access to her thoughts and shes as good someone in that position, in that world, could be. I vote for her to rule Earth tomorrow if she was on a ballot.
@@nrran6835 spoken like a true westerner, you people could justify genocide as long as i was within your interests, in fact currently you're doing exactly that
@@mrglassbadguy485 please, mr perfect knowledge of humanity - specify for us a civilization/culture that has NOT endorsed or promoted such actions when the situation was dire enough? We're waiting.
@@mrglassbadguy485 name an eastern nation/leader that doesn't also match that description. Eastern/Western isn't different in that regard, every nation has always sided with its own interests.
I think you are misrepresenting why he killed himself. It wasn’t because the torture made him lose the will to live, he killed himself so they’d never get the information out of him.
Nothing in The Expanse is black and white, just like the world we live in.
I don’t think there’s been a more satisfying death then when Amos kills the Dr.
I jumped off my couch alone when I first saw it 🤣
if you look around on youtube you can find a video of some of the cast and writers watching that scene for the first time, and wes chatham's reaction to it is delightful
I just always like to praise Dr. Strickland's Actor Ted Atherton, it takes commitment to play such a despicable bastard, and the "I'm that guy" just works because of how slimy and disgusting he made his character feel.
I think JP Mao fits into the category described by Anderson Dawes as "bad men do things believing it is for the good of mankind". Like many things in The Expanse, it's in several subtle complex shades of grey overlaid all at once. He thinks he's doing good. He's trying to protect mankind, but also be the one at the top with all the control and resulting wealth, and he doesn't really have qualms about the human cost or collateral damage. He had tears for Julie and concern for Mei when he saw her in-person rather than as a figure in a spreadsheet, but his personal bigger picture still wins out when it comes to the crunch.
Amos was schooling Prax as best he could, but you could see that he had some concerns that Prax was getting too dark, too much like Amos himself. Watch his look when Prax dumps the martian corpse a couple of episodes back. Also when Prax talks about getting even. Stopping Prax following through with the execution of Strickland was the intervention to save Prax's soul from fully stepping onto the dark path. I think you may missed Amos' look of surprise when Prax told Mei that he was his best friend in the whole world. There was a lot going on. More great face acting from Wes. So much conveyed in so little, sometimes no, words.
53:09
"This is Amos. My best friend in the whole world." 🥲🥲🥲
😭😭
I think Mao's attitude is very close to Dresden's. He wants to find out the Protomolecule's mission and figure out a way to stop it, as well as gain knowledge for broader interests than weapons research.
Souther's death hurt my feelings and broke my heart. He'd been a good guy all along. His error was not prepping his people to broadcast Avasarala's message the moment he made his move. He was expecting too much honor from Nguyen. Nguyen also had no justification to destroy the Jiminez. Martian Captain Kirino was smart: "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake." Napoleon Bonaparte
I think that sailor gave Cotyar her gun so that he could shoot her.
"I feel like I've had enough emotions." LOL. This book finale hands you a one-two punch right into the feelz. You're still reeling from the first punch when it hits you with the second punch. That Amos/Prax bromance was deep. They did an excellent job of making us really want to see Strickland killed without mercy. Even though Praxidike means "revenge," the writers did a wonderful job subverting his path in that direction. You weren't ready for that. None of us was.
"I am that guy" must be the most predictable line of dialog in all of television (normally a sign of bad writing), but the writers set us up in such delicious anticipation that we would have been disappointed not to hear it.
There has been fan discussion of why Proto-Katoa looked upward at the last moment. Some think it's because there was still enough Belter child Katoa left for him to be in awe of being outside on the surface. Others (including me) believe it's because he heard the "Up!" command from the Protomolecule mother lode.
All the book finales are great, but this is my favorite and most satisfying. Unfortunately, The Expanse received absolutely no television industry recognition. That was certainly a crime.
If I remember correctly, one of the book writers confirmed the theory of Katoa still retaining some of his mind. It makes that moment even darker if you ask me. A child, in excruciating pain, trying to fathom what happen to him.
@@quiett6191 Well, we do know some human-ness still remained in Proto-Katoa's brain stem, because it splattered red blood.
While you don't want to be too predictable in writing, you also don't want to be so unpredictable that it feels like it's coming out of nowhere. Ideally you want around a half to three quarters of your audience to predict the thing _immediately_ before it happens, that's where you get the most punch.
1:10:39 You seem to have a misunderstanding about governance. The overall arc of a leader's decisions *in a democracy* is , and can never be anything other, than doing what will get one elected or re-elected. If that seems somehow hollow to you, then what is your alternative? If you want a _benign_ dictator, *that person is still a dictator no matter how much you agree with them on this or that topic.* Don't try to _purity test_ some leader. Judge them on their overall ability to make the choices that reflect their constituents.
Liked how bobbies ability to overcome and lift the dead suit arm was foreshadowed in her arm wrestling her empty suit and beating it.
That scene... THAT SCENE! Amos "Murder-Snuggles" Burton *IS* that guy...
The side eyes when Strickland says "I would never hurt her."
And now you know why the podcast/youtube show hosted by Ty Franck (who co-wrote the books) and Wes Chatham is called "Ty and That Guy".
I think Prax and Amos' friendship is a big part of Amos healing (though being in the Roci family is another big part of that). Amos thought he was just helping Prax find Mae, but when Prax told Mae that Amos was his best friend, parts of Amos' damaged psyche cracked through. He's never going to be entirely undamaged, but he realises he isn't as broken as he thought. He discovers that he doesn't have to just be a killer, he can be a protector too (though usually by killing bad guys).
Now on to the story of James And The Giant Ring
the way it was probably so easy for prax to say "this is amos, my best friend in the whole world" because he has such a big heart that's used to giving and receiving love!! but amos burton, a man who has lived most of his life without that kind of love, was probably so taken aback and utterly changed by that simple sentence. goddamn. it's been well over a year since i saw this for the first time and i still think about it at least once a week, i swear to god. I'LL NEVER FORGET.
AND THEN. THE INHERENT TRUST PRAX SHOWED AMOS BY ASKING MEI IF SHE WOULD STAY WITH AMOS FOR A MINUTE. HE KNEW WITHOUT ASKING, WITHOUT QUESTION, WITHOUT HESITATION THAT AMOS WOULD WATCH HER AND THAT SHE WOULD BE SAFE WITH HIM. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH THAT PROBABLY MEANT TO AMOS??/ FUCK. I'LL NEVER BE OKAY AGAIN.
I love the fact that this website is full of reactors just full-on cheering and celebrating as one of the main characters coldly blows off the head of an unarmed man. I mean, it's the objectively correct reaction. I just think it speaks to the quality of the show's writing, since normally that sort of thing is at least a little less overtly celebrated, lol.
1:02:21 The Expanse(Extended) 30min by Patrick Bennett is still up on RUclips. As is this exact song.
Thank you Meg and nice editor man named Caleb.
Caleb did a heckuva job on this one--my compliments.
Thank you both 🥹
- Caleb
40:02 If you can get the arm or leg cut off before it's(protomolecule) in the blood stream, yes.
2 very different PUSH THE MIC AWAY moments between Souther getting shot, and "he's my best friend in the whole world" lol
1:00:49 don't forget that as Mao is forced to kneel before Avasarala, she is _wearing his dead daughter's clothes_
26:52 in the version of this that aired on SyFy back in the day he does actually say "fricking". the swears started coming out a lot more once the show got picked up by amazon
Great reaction!
I can't express just how much I love this show! To say this is my favorite episode is an understatement.
To many great moments in these two episodes! Souther, Naomi explaining to Holden, Alex's son message, Bobbie, Cotyar, and I know everyone's favorite is " I am that guy!" Which is amazing, but to be honest when Amos became our reluctant damaged hero to save his best friends soul so he can be a good father to Mea by stopping him " You're not that guy..you're not that guy!" 😭😭
Looking forward to the next one!
Regarding a TTRPG: The Expanse began as a proposal for an MMO, then when that didn't come to fruition, it became a home-grown TTRPG. They then turned that into the book series, which became the TV show. Once the TV show aired, both a board game and a TTRPG were released. The board game is out of print and kind of hard to find now, but the TTRPG is still readily available. So it almost came full circle.
The tragedy of Katoa is that part of him was still there, despite becoming a hybrid. This was confirmed by one of the writers on their podcast. He moves different from the other hybrids, different body language too. When Bobbie is waiting on the ladder, the Katoa hybrid peered around the corner like a little kid. When the Katoa hybrid finally has her, he doesn't kill her. Instead his attention is drawn to the horizon and then the sky. Its pretty heartrending when you realise its because Katoa, whose a Belter, has never been outside in his life. There's almost a look of wonder on the hybrid's face as it looks up at Io's sky.
So in a way Strickland was right, the genetic disease that the kids have did stifle the proto-molecule somewhat, if only to allow them to keep some of their minds, even as their bodies transformed. Its pretty cruel when you think about it.
Also the writing for Errinwright was just masterfull.
Errinwright said something in season 2 after he betrayed Chrisjen, framing her as working with Mao and Mars to the General Secretary. He says something like "she's like a mother to me". I really think he meant that, as its implied that Chrisjen mentored him, with the good and bad that came with that. Chrisjen as she starts out the show was an extremist, theres that scene of her having that belter tortured. Its very likely her "Earth first" stance fed young Errinwirght's own extremism. Only Chrisjen when through an arc which changed her, and Errinwright continued down that path. I remember hearing a Bible story of an evil Israelite king, he went soo far as to sacrifice children, some of his own included. Now the story goes that in his old age, he repented, and tried to become a better person. When he died his son accended the throne and went back to all the nasty shit his dad used to do. It struck me that even though the old king had changed, he had already brought his son up in his old ways, and so he had kinda doomed his son to repeat his wrongs. This story came to mind 2 years ago when I watched a news special about a cult in Korea. A man had joined the cult, and he brought in his wife, and two sons, then aged 12 and 10. Years later, he broke free of the cult's conditioning, but when he tried to escape with his family they rejected him and he had to make his getaway alone. In the interview he expressed his grief at losing his family, but also extreme guilt because it was he who took them in to be indoctrinated. But even then it doesn't take away the element of choice, whatever Errinwright learned from Chrisjen, he chose to take it to its extreme conclusion. Compare this with Julie Mao, who saw what her father truely was, and rejected him to forge her own path.
actually it has been clarified that the Katoa hybrid is not "looking at the sky" it is the PM interacting with the Venus complex wich is about to launch itself off the planet momentarily.
@@ZakhadWOW Ty Franck confirmed the whole Katoa's mind still being there theory on his and Wes Chatham's podcast. But thats the great thing about this show, it lets you make you own conclusions rather than spoon feed you.
56:20 Actually i got a different take from that. She finally was able to get closure on her teammates and used her arm wrestling skills to good use against that suit. I found it a bittersweet moment. 😉
THIS. The best damn scene in all of the expanse
Great you are watching more of the Expanse and have a really great week Thanks very much.👍🐾🐾👍
"I am that guy." Four little words with so much history, so much emotion, and Amos is getting back at all of the people who hurt him when he was Mei's age in Baltimore.
I am that guy. Such a episode.
Oh yeah, watching these both at the same time was a good idea.
I think Mao honestly saw the protomolecule as a bullet that was launched toward Earth by an alien species. You have to remember the protomolecule is a technology and not a biological entity. Think of it more as a nanite. He is trying to figure out a way to weaponize it in the name of humanity for the attack which he feels has already been launched. At the same time, he also sees that he has an opportunity to make some money off it as a weapons manufacturer. His motivations are very complicated and he feels justified in extreme measures because in his mind he is fighting for the survival of the human race.
Incredible reaction, as always.
I absolutely cannot wait for next episode to drop, you're gonna lose yo fuggin mind sistah.
When you know Amos' backstory and how he grew up... THAT scene becomes a WHOLE LOT MORE satisfying.
This is That Episode!
I've always thought Mao was genuinely concerned about finding a way to use the protomolecule to protect Earth agains an incursion by a technologically advanced alien civilization. His opinion, I think, was not too far from that of Dr. Dresden, from whom he probably got a lot of opinions and advice. We arrive at the Caliban tale in the middle of its telling. The Caliban Project was already well underway when Mei got sucked into it, with hundreds of Calibans already being maintained in storage, and the facilities on Io fully modified to carry on the ongoing research, store the pods, and obtain the ability to launch them rapidfire. It must have been underway for months if not years.
I can't really figure out how the weapons project meshes with the idea of finding a way to resist the perceived alien threat. The Calibans seem targeted at killing human beings, and they are not controllable. My best guess is that selling weapons would be a fine way to fund any ongoing research projects, but I'm not sure that killing off humanity is the best way to save it from alien domination.
After mulling over this finale', I concluded that a storyline showing us mad scientists putting little kids through deadly experiments was an easy and cheap way of creating bad guys to produce dramatic tension and provide a fine catharsis when the good guys finally terminate them with extreme prejudice. The brilliance of The Expanse is in how it can take such a cheesy storyline and present it in a way that the viewers never really get sidetracked and stop to think about the story. We just flow with it like a raft caroming through Class 5 rapids.
As for Mao's waffling once he gets to Io, I think it is easier to read a report about a company project than it is to show up in person and see the human cost. Dr. Strikland was making good progress in churning out weapons to be sold, but he wasn't really doing anything to save humanity from the creators of the protomolecule. But when the half-transformed Katao revealed he was in communication with the protomolecule, that allowed Mao to easily reverse himself as to the value of the Caliban Project. Here was a development that would assist mankind in learning about the protomolecule, its goals, and its origins, so he gave Dr. Strickland a green light to proceed, no matter what casualties would result.
to a person say "I am that guy" to a Screaming Firehawk and you will get a Fuck Yeah as a response.
Such a perfect ending to this arc. Glad you got to watch both episodes together! Loved it
The Expanse, amongst everything else, finds the perfect balance of poeple getting exactly what they deserve and people getting exactly what other people deserve.
39:34 First, reactor to realize that the protomolecule is always leathal and looking to spread. It's never inert and harmless.
i think while it does look to spread, the fact its lethal is merely an unintended side effect, it wants to learn about any type of system and incorporate it into its knowledge to build. there is no intention of killing
so many other shows would have killed Mai and had praxs story end super downbeat cos too many shows equate misery and death with drama(E.G shows about walking zombies, magical dragons and outlaw motorcycle gangs)but The Expanse never does that, it doesn't need to lean on "shock" to create great moments. It's also one of the few shows that can have an antagonist not be evil or just pure "villain"...and also(!) no character is just plan stupid and does dumb shit cos the writer wanted to move the plot along faster, as a viewer you understand why most characters are doing what they do.
I think Strickland is the only primary villain (not counting various henchmen) whose motives are completely unsympathetic.
YES! It requires a lot of skill in so many areas. And agree@@kirkdarling4120 it was kind of a relief seeing as I hated occasionally feeling bad for Errinwright and Mao 🤣
that scene is definitely one of the best scenes ever written.. so good.. the fact that Prax called Amos his best friend, when Amos really doesnt understand it.. its so Good.
Of all the reactions to the "I am that guy" lead up and scene, yours is my favorite. What a great reaction and commentary.
What a send off for Errinwright, one of my favorite villains. one thing that the SG is forgetting is that all the sh&t that Errinwright pulled happened under the SG's watch.
In those wide shots of Bobbie and the Hybrid on the ground you'll notice a giant horizon wide volcanic plume in the background. Io is known for it's giant volcanoes. It's essy to miss because we're focused on the characters.
Thank you so much. I was so worried I'd come across as a blubbering mess. But I "AM that" blubbering mess!
I just picked up on something that I hadn't realized when I watched this before or read the books. The advances in ships that Duarte gets at the end of the show, comes from these episodes. The protomolecule reacting with the ships is what gives Duarte what he needs to build HIS new ship.
A few villians of this show are more complex than they look on the surface. Since they lie and manipulate a lot, we tend to think they only care about themselves and about their simple villian motivation, but that's not true
Errinwright was in fact a total patriot. Everything he did he did because he thought that the war between Earth and Mars was inevitable and that the timeline was this: Earth wins if they fight now, Mars wins if they fight in 5 years. This he knew based on all his life in politics and all the war assessments from the experts on the UN council. The only way we the audience kind of know this is false is that we know (or really just *hope*) that a diplomatic solution exists. That if Earth doesn't start the war, Mars will be totally cool towards Earth when they have the upper hand. I get him. I think I would even agree with him if I had only the info he has and was an Earther. I feel like it wouldn't be a horrible world in which Mars had the upper hand, but would you bet your world on that?
Jules Pier Mao is certainly a narcissist. But he is also a longtermist. People in extremely high positions of power often are like that. To him, humanity is a thing to be cherished and protected. Human life is worth X in average. So, of course, sacrificing a few nameless ones for a greater, long term good, is totally fine. Not just fine but probably something that only someone in his position could manage. So a "visionary" gets a hold of the "most important" discovery of all of history: the protomolecule. What is he to do? Should he give it to the UN or the MCR? In the middle of a cold war? Either side is extremely corruptible and would use it for war or for petty, short sighted gain. So he worked it himself. Experimented on under his own rules because what's 100k deaths compared to the potential that the protomolecule has. And when things got really heated and his experiment backfired... that's when his narcissism kicks in. Honestly, not many people in the world are mentally tough enough to pilot an extreme gamble of politics and life and accept defeat. Avasaralla is, and so is Fred Johnson, but most people would just double down. So he compromised. And dealt with the governments while maintaining control over the science of the thing. He is a lot like the scientist that got shot by Miller only *much* less convicted and *much* more powerful.
The doctor was a clear psicopath, though. Which is ok. Lots of people are actually like that. He didn't do what he did for a greater good, nor did he did it for glory like Mao. He didn't do it because he enjoys cruelty or killing kids. He was just a very curious person who doesn't value the life of others. Obviously he would sacrifice anyone to save himself. I didn't really hate him. I was just like "yeap, he needs to die". In fact, the thing I really hate about both him and Mao is that they never discovered anything useful about the protomolecule, for all their efforts and all the people they sacrificed.
Personally, I do think that Mao's main motivation is understanding the protomolecule because of the existential threat it presents to humanity. The problem is that he is a wealthy industrialist who is undoubtedly not concerned about the who or what gets destroyed in his pursuits. It's the kind of attitude that leads to becoming an insanely wealthy industrialist. One of the fascinating aspects of this show is the different ways different people react to the extraterrestrial threat to human life. This is Maos, Chrisjen comes to the understanding that all of humanity must come together to face it, giving up her Earth first doctrine. Errinwright doubles down on Earth first. Jim and the crew just see the damage it's doing to regular people and try to help the best they can. The bad guy scientists just seem interested in the project, lacking any compassion. The great thing about the writing is that there is no completely right character, nor completely wrong. Great show! Loving your reaction to it.
Prepared yourself, the rest of this season is going to blow your mind!!! 😯😯😯
36:39 Halo moment, Master Chief standing in small arms fire... 😁
57:41 Get ready for the comments about the Protomolecule being inert or not a threat to humans. 😁 It's coming. ☮️
Folks get hopping mad when a puppy or a child is harmed, but do not blink at all when thousands of regular folk get killed. It's a phenomenon I notice almost everywhere I go. A Greyhound bus goes off a cliff, 50 people died, folks say, "that sucks". Then they hear two of those people were children and they go on and on about it being such a tragedy, and suddenly care more. I find it odd, but it happens so often. Does human life matter, or only when you know the person or it's a kid? Curious.
Interestingly, The Expanse started off as a pitch to create an MMO but when the company realised who much it would cost they backed out. From there Ty Franck took the pitch and turned it into a TTRPG using a homebrew version of D20 Modern. One of the players in that campaign was Daniel Abraham (who's character would go on to become Miller). Franck & Abraham took some of the characters from the RPG (with the players permission) and formed the pen name James S A Corey and wrote Leviathan Wakes based on the events of that campaign.
So yeah. The Expanse totally started out as a MMO pitch that turned into a D20 based 'D&D style' RPG
I don't know if anyone has recommended this to you, but the writers of The Expanse did some tie in novellas to the Book Series. One of them is called "The Churn" which tells the story of Amos' traumatic upbringing in Baltimore. He had a really messed up childhood that shapes a lot of who he is now.
Wait until after season 5 to read The Churn, though. Season 5 covers some of its content.
Yes wait to read it till you finish the series IMO
27:28 Evil succeeds when good men(& women) do nothing.
Yes, the Rosinante has a captain but Holden is more or less that in title only.
That in my opinion is what makes the Roci crew so strong.
I love how 3x6 seems to resolve everything - as long as you stop it 20 seconds from the end. If you don't... wtf is the giant alien spaceship going to do?!?!
I love all the bad guys in this show, they're so good at being slimy. Strictland doing everything to save his life is so gooood! "I love her!" etc. just trying all the manipulative tricks in the book.
"This is your other dad" made me bust a gut
*Minor book spoiler*
In the book the hybrids launched from Io go crazy inside Nguyen ship and infect everyone inside turning them into a horde of protomolecule zombies sprinting for anyone not infected and vomiting black goo on them which turns them also, very horifying. And James goes in with a vac suit and confronts Nguyen and shoots him in the neck.
I think Jules saw the benefit of protomolecure to resurrect something. I think he was trying to understand it and then make it resurrect his dead wife.
Such a amazing pair of episodes. Every time I hear Prax say, "This is Amos, he's my best friend in the whole world", it brings tears to my eyes. Such a beautiful, earned moment.
Also, is there anything more badass and cathartic as "I am that guy"?
Hope you're ready for what's next, because shit's about to get WEIRD!!!
10:43 don’t get me STARTED with Wes Chatham we would be here for weeks
I love the relationship between Amos and Prax. Amos has accepted his soul is already lost. By shooting Strickland, in his way, he's doing what he could to save Prax's.
I feel Jules being a tech manufacturer is most likely experiencing a little bit of both. Sunk costs and responsibilities having opened this can of worms and also seeing what benefits could be brought to humanity if they can solve this puzzle and combine this tech with ours. I don't think he's truly evil, I think he is doing evil things for a very grand and noble reason, to advance humanity... he's just going about it in an inhumane and dangerous way thanks to the scientists he has on his team. I would argue those scientists are closer to evil, Jules is just dabbling in evil. We saw love in his heart after all but, it's not enough to conquer that ambition. It's shoved in our face at the end of this episode that there really is two proto-molecule problems, what humans will do with it and what it is trying to do itself... and it certainly has a goal.
There is a D&D style "Expanse" game - it's published by Green Ronin. Haven't played it yet, but it looks like fun :) BTW - you know that the Expanse grew out of D&D-style game originally, right?
@@remliqa IIRC from what Ty Franck has said, he began it as GM for a play-by-mail campaign; when Shed's player dropped out of the game he killed off the character, and they were away :) I believe Ty spent some time trying to sell the concept as a video game before he and Daniel decided to turn it into a series of novels...
I don't want to excuse Mao's actions. He's a poor excuse for a human being.
That said, his main motivator from the start of the series until now has been existential dread. The existence of the proto-molecule has put the fear of God in him and he thinks it's worth ANYTHING to be able to understand it and control it. He believes its existence in the solar system is an extinction-level event, which is how he's been able to justify things like Eros to himself.
Of course, like most criminally rich assholes, he believes HE'S the only person who can control it and is the right person to lead the system into the future, hence capitalising on the PM to make himself richer as well as trying to control it.
Ya but this tech is billions of years old. Controlling it now would be no different than a human finding an ancient club buried in the ground and thinking they can fight against a nuclear bomb. The aliens should have advanced far beyond this tech, assuming they continued to advance. I won't put any spoilers regarding this.
Free-style rap over The Expanse. Let’s go.
"Oh well." ~ _Cotyar_
half a season left to finish the first of the 3 story arcs of the Expanse still annoyed we only got 2 of the three arcs in the show
Amos is THAT GUY and I love him. He was my favorite character after that moment.
Ok someone probably already warned you but for episode 7, don’t watch the opening theme sequence until after you’ve seen the episode.
Episode 6 of season 3 is one of the favorites of the series so many memorable moments the back half was where the series first ended before Jeff Bezos and Amazon saved it.
It gets crazy from here on out.
it gets better ; ).
i tink hes a rich guy with greedy motives with no care of the cost to humanity
36:05 Mass Effect.
31:18 honey you think you hate him NOW…
24:26, Caleb victory lap edit?
😂😂😂
Norwegian? I thought it was the halo theme.
Mao flip flops harder than magikarp.
Remember that MCRN captain she will show up again in the final season
Well, that surprise is ruined. Good job.
54:00
Why are you crying?😢😢😢😢😢
DND like SF RPG? Try Traveller.
Yeah, Earth deserved better than Sorrento-Gillis. But better him than Errinwright.
This show.