Thanks for the video Karn, we surely bash our heads for this digimon levels, maybe the best answer to this is to put a new rule to adult and perfect levels, like how the first two stages are baby 1 and baby 2 With the rule that any adult digimon can evolve into any adult AND perfect so for example Guardromon could evolve into Blimpmon, and monochromon could evolve into deckerdramon despite being adult level, so they could keep the levels they have, while also could be use as 5th stage evo regardless of their level, leaving something like this: Baby 1-> Baby 2-> Child-> Adult-> Adult or Perfect-> Ultimate
The lack of X-Anti variants of in Cyber Sleuth game was a missed opportunity. It would have been cool if they developed due to player action in the latter half of the game as a slide evolution. Thoughts?
By the way, the reason why Lucemon falldown mode is ultimate, not mega, is because in Japan, the level is called perfect and Lucemon is to prideful to accept not being purfect
Ok but why is standard Lucemon just not a small Champion instead like Gatomon and is a rookie? Like it would make sense if there was an Adult Lucemon in-between standard and Fallen but there's not
@@elemomnialpha Because he is meant to be a child, which is the name of the rookie level. As for why there isn't a champion/ adult stage, i dont really know
@@4wheal I assume since, in the anime, Lucemon absorbs two mega levels (and not any, two royal knights), it jumps straight up to Ultimate instead of just champion. So basically, we'd just need a champion version of Lucemon being an awkward teen Groot-style and we'd be golden.
Funny you mention the Sistermons. While they are indeed modechanges, Cyber Sleuth makes it so that awakened forms basically equivalent to Megas in terms of power and conditions to evolve to. So yes, Sistermon Awakened forms should just be Megas.
Gatomon not being a Rookie level has always been weird to me. Especially with the First two seasons of the anime making her more of a "Depowered" Champion. Feels like making it a Rookie would have been easier.
But the line would make so much sense if she WAS a rookie! Baby - Nyaromon In-Training - Salamon Rookie - Gatomon Champion - Angewomon Ultimate - Magnadramon Mega - Ophanimon I personally really like it this way
Pumpkinmon. The anime pairing him with Gotsumon who is the same size and has a very similar personality convinced me that both of them are rookies but then I found out that Pumpkinmon is an ULTIMATE level?!!? The idea that this goofy little guy serving under Myotismon was the same level as him the whole time is just baffling to me. I kinda get wanting him to be able to Digivolve from Bakemon but I think a slide evolution would have worked fine for that.
Pumpkinmon would be a sick Rookie. It could be a chaotic neutral Nightmare Soldier that could either go good or bad depending on its Tamer. Even its ability top drop a pumpkin on someone sounds like a Marching Fishes style move.
@@NegaHumanXI think champion would be better for Pumpkinmon, to me I like the idea for Ghostmon digivolving into Pumpkinmon because Ghostmon just gives off Pumpkinmon pre evolution vibes to me and I think NoblePumpkinmon should stay a mega and they create a new ultimate for Pumpkinmon because why not
I know Nefertimon's an armor, and it's level is supposed to be separate, but I've always thought it would've been better if Gatomon had reverted to Salamon and then armor digivolved instead of being in a strange middle state. It just puts her in a weird spot compared to the other 02 partners
Thing is I feel like a lot of that jank is some of the charm of digimon. Oh gatomon counts as a rookie now because she lost her holy ring? Sure, I'm down.
@@shadenox8164 But should it not be that Gatomon is a rookie, but got powered up by the Ring, instead of a weak Champion Level when they naturally occur in the wild.
I’ve always been confused by Angemon and Angewomon being different levels from each other. They’re clearly designed to be counterparts, so idk why they aren’t equals. Edit: please, everybody, please, stop trying to explain this. It’s just making me more annoyed because none of you understand my complaint. These two look near identical except for the presence of secondary sexual characteristics, and it’s just weird to me that giving Angemon boobs makes him go up a level. It’d be like if in Pokemon Nidoran female evolved normally (Nidorina->Nidoqueen) but Nidoran male evolved directly into Nidoking then Nidoemperor after.
@@devalphamon7289 everything in Digimon is made up by the creators. If they wanted to give Angemon a counterpart, they didn’t need to make the counterpart’s prevo stronger than him.
@@taso8774 it's almost like Adventure also has war greymon with help (the gaia force) somehow beat fcking millenniumon which simply was mega stupid so scaling clearly wasn't on their minds)
I still think thundermon and mamemon should swap levels. It's always annoyed me that the only way for them to exist in the same line was for thundermon to loose it's electric theming on evolution. Plus then Mamemon could actually evolve into other members of its family instead of being the same level as all of them
Mamemon always should have been champion & then Jiromon is another problem. Why does Digimon make Mame Balls into Stage 5 by default? They should have been an evolution family rather than what we ended up with.
I think Damemon and Tuwarmon been the same level is based on how of Xros Wars treated Tuwarmon as a mode change rather than evolution until Young Hunters
I will never stop being frustrated by levels of Xros Wars Digimon and Deckerdramon is definitely my # 1 most frustrating mislevel. Him not being able to digivolve straight into Leviamon and maybe even Rustyranomon feels like such a miss.
I like the concept that the show used... But I really doslike DigiMon using the gimic, though. I'll even go as far as really liking GabuMon, GatoMon, OmniMon, and the awesome looking MercyMon (hate that the DataSquad name is the same as the overly complicated looking Olympiis 12 firey NarDog thing) wearing to the parts of orher DigiMon. I kinda wish there was more coheasion with GatoMon digivolving InTo SaberLeoMon, or a variant of GatoMon with LeoMon's sword but maybe UnSharpend and just being a club that evolved to a be sharp along with the variant GatoMon as it went from LeoMon to LeoMon x or MercuryMon.
@@Karn_EXHave you ever don a video on DigiMon that wear parts of other Digimon, and not specifically 1s like ChimeraMon that are just MixMatched to just look like they are made of other DigiMon???
Darktyrannomon. I always thought it was an ultimate because it took Togemon evolving into Lillymon to be able to defeat him. But no?It turns out he’s just a champion. I hate it. It makes Togemon/Lillymon look so weak.
The thing is... Lilimon didn't defeat him. In that scene in particular, seeing how DarkTyrannomon was berserking and understanding it's due to having a virus, Mimi wanted to stop him and save him, hence Togemon evolved and purified him, Vamdemon kills him then for being no longer his minion. ruclips.net/video/ZJyk0iOYCMo/видео.html Also, I mean it's just a funny boxing cactus versus a giant armored muscular ancient tank-like reptile of death... Obviously Togemon can't overcome that. Greymon is the strongest among all adult levels in the group and DarkTyrannomon rivals his battle prowess. So don't expect Togemon, a rather weaker adult to beat DarkTyrannomon.
I like DarkTyrannomon as a slide for Tyrannomon, but I wish that episode used MasterTyrannomon. I don't know if they had him at the time, but it would have been a better fit.
I mean powerscale wise, lilymon is like the weakest ultimate among the 8 digidestined atp 😂 Even birdramon got its evolution only to FLEE from Vamdemon. And then we have angemon killing phantomon an ultimate with one holy attack
@kgjames3603 but reboot lilymon didnt fight darktyranomon (?) haha I agree tho reboot lilymon rocks ! I even wished she would evolve to bancholilymon instead of regular rosemon hahaha
@@WarGrey_I press X to doubt. I think Garurumon, Kabuterimon, and Angemon are contendors for beeing the strongest. Tailmon arguably defeated him once.
I can never get over Eyesmon and Shademon. They both look a like and are connected to each other in the card game. Both are Champions. I cannot get it out of my head that Eyesmon should be the Champion, Shademon the ultimate and Abbadomon as the Mega. With Negamon and Soundbirdmon filling out the rest of the line.
I think, in the case of Damemon and Tuwarmon, it's because the gimmick of the original one is that Damemon never was meant to be a "rookie" of Towarmon or anything like that. Damemon was a disguise to hide his power and personality, not even an evolution, just a mode change. The third season just made it weird by making it an 'super digivolution' when it didn't even fit.
In Digimon Xros Wars, Tuwarmon was the "true form", while Damemon was a weaker form he could transform into at will. In Hunters due to being reborn after death, Damemon could no longer be Tuwarmon naturally, so had to rely on Digivolution.
I was always confused that Warumonzaemon was the same level as Monzaemon and not an evolution, it is so much more detailed than Monzaemon that is suggests evolution. Also there is the whole thing with the keychain on Etemon and Metaletemon's waist, suggesting it evolved with him.
Same. Especially since the Adventure kids (well Togemon) fought a Monzaemon 1 on 1, always thought it was a champion level Digimon growing up until I looked it up later in life
100% agree with you on Deckerdramon. Also, Lucemon also goes from being a perfect/ultimate stage to an ultimate/mega stage when it becomes an X antibody, like DarkKnightmon... actually, apparently the X antibody is just "Lucemon", without the "Falldown" bit? So it goes from Child to Ultimate, I guess?
Deckermon, or ProtoDeckerdramon. Deckerdramon without the missiles on his back and the weapon on his tail. A prototype for a weapon-platform system currently in development. XD
Right?!? MadLeomon could easily be the transition between Leomon and SaberLeomon since it's hunched over, going from bipedal, to hunched, to quadruped, though, I would prefer if they were the same colour scheme, like maybe a purified MadLeomon. I could also see MadLeomon being a DNA digivolution of Leomon and Ogremon.
MadLeomon is unfortunately a case of being a Dark Variant of the Original - his Size is just part of the Viral Corruption, making him Seem Stronger. He could've easily Been an Ultimate-Level Digimon, but his Transformations in Xros Wars made Bandai Namco Rank him Lower to allow for the Leaps in Power his other Forms suggested - being Defeated by Shoutmon X3 however even in his Full-Powered Darkness Mode though, suggests that Every Form he took was Ultimate-Level at Best, justifying a Champion-Level Ranking in his Base Form...
@@lianaverwood9810 But they already have DarkLeomon/Corrupted Leomon from adventure (Leomon with the black gears) as a variant, creating another version on top of that and still have it be at the Champion level seems redundant. Usually form changes are just the Digimon at the same level, but stronger, and the creators could've easily done that with MadLeomon's forms if they'd wanted, made MadLeomon an Ultimate, and his forms as still Ultimate level but stronger.
@@dewandrop4064 Just being Controlled by some Black Gears doesn't really constitute a Form Change, so that Argument falls apart. And while Variant Forms do often take the Form of Recolours, they're often Released around the Time the Base Form is Made - MadLeomon was Designed Many Seasons after Leomon's First Appearance, so Bandai had Plenty of Time to come up with a Unique Visual Design to provide for him to Differentiate from the Leomon Past: it didn't Prevent him from Succumbing to the Leomon Curse, but at least he Looked Good doing it!
I whole heartedly agree with the X-antibody part of this video, for me it’s Gazimon who’s X-antibody feels like it’s a level up and cool be FeralGazimon or something
Angewomon X is one that really gets me. When I've played around with levels, I have a non-holy ring Gatomon as a rookie, then D'arcmon as the champion, to Angewomon, to 'MagnaAngewomon' (Angewomon X) as a mega. I really like renaming X digiomon and using them as a step up or alternate. Another is I like using the X form of Black Wargreymon, but the normal version of Wargreymon, kinda symbolizing the standard more balanced, and the virus more aggressive forms.
I feel like X-Antibody mons should be a kind of .5 level, like how the Armours were treated in the anime. Not as powerful of an upgrade as a full transformation, but similar to the Kaio-ken. A quick boost they can get under certain circumstances, but at a cost.
@@NegaHumanX There are some that really feel like that, like, Agumon X is the immediate one that comes to mind to me. Like it is stronger than Agumon but weaker than Greymon. To me there is a weird blend of those more powerful but still same level, and then some that are just "You could totally just be a new Digimon of a higher level"
I'll be honest, I never liked the way they leveled the Digimon in general. It started going back when they put a hard limit on the levels with Mega, and then still usually kept stronger Digimon at the "Mega" level which just stopped making sense. If they wanted a level system, they should have functioned it as a digital theme, like so: - Bit (Baby) - Byte (In-Training) - Kilo (Rookie) - Mega (Champion) - Giga (Ultimate/Perfect) - Tera (Mega/Ultimate) And then make higher levels be a higher data size, like after Tera, there's Peta, Exa, Zetta, and so on.
8:15 Damemon in Young Hunters is a prime example of slide evolution not properly existing outside of Frontier. He _warp evolves_ from Champion to Champion while everyone else in Young Hunters warp evolves to ultimate (except Gumdramon for some reason, Arresterdramon is also only champion stage in the reference book)
Yeah, the whole Cho-Shinka (Warp Evolution) Element in Young Hunters seemed more like Toei were Doubling Down on Not giving the Xros Wars Digimon legitimate Levels, so they used that Term to say "We aren't going to tell you How Many Stages they've Evolved, deal with it!". With the eventually Released Evo Stages on the Xros Wars Digimon, we see Why - we have Rookie->Champion, Rookie->Ultimate, Champion->Ultimate, Champion->Mega, and even *CHAMPION->CHAMPION!* The Stages for Digimon that Generation were never given Any Consideration, so Bandai half-assed things when it came to actually Giving them Official Power Stages...
The worst part about the Damemon and Tuwarmon thing is that in the Young Hunters season they retcon Damemon digivolving into Tuwarmon and it not just being a mode change.
In Digimon Xros Wars, Tuwarmon was the "true form", while Damemon was a weaker form he could transform into at will. In Hunters due to being reborn after death, Damemon could no longer be Tuwarmon naturally, so had to rely on Digivolution.
my headcanon is the evolution level is a sign of age until champion, at least that's how the japanese name works (baby-child-adult instead of in training-rookie-champion). anything beyond that requires combat experience and powering up. like an agumon who does nothing will eventually become greymon. but if that greymon does nothing he will die a greymon without ever becoming metal greymon
I think what's holding Digimon back from competing with Pokemon is that it's unnecessarily messy, Pokemon follows a very simple system that makes it easy to memorize all the Pokemon, the games encourage you to "catch 'em all", gives each Pokemon a number and many other details unique to it, it makes every single Pokemon important in some way. In Digimon they're just a bunch of cool looking creatures, it's hard to keep track of them.
Thank Karn as somebody whos favorite Digimon is Deckerdramon i get so many time where people are just like wait he's a champion god it tivks because he's so cool
most weird thing for me is that they didnt release any new levels. Something like Giga and Terra after Mega. Would work with the digital theme...more data stuff etc. and would give a lot of "overpowered" megas more of a unique/own level
Lucemon immediately came to mind as he is so overpowered, also Impmon going straight to mega was like what? XD It felt like a bit of a cop out, but it also makes sense it terms of the anime, but still feels a bit like he got it without earning it, especially compared to Guilmon's forced digivolution to Megidramon, which almost destroyed the digital world, and actually made sense in terms of the story!
I think, THINK what happens with cases like "Deckerdramon + Metalgreymon(2010)" not becoming a mega is that the Digimon have to be able to fuse in a certain way, like how fusing Metalgreymon(2010) with Cyberdramon(2010) also doesn't make a mega. Many Digimon from Xroswars feel a stage lower than they should be which is weird when this feels like it was already written in; If the component Digimon is not fully incorporated or is repurposed through fusion then the base Digimon's stage doesn't increase.
5:23 i also feel like the fact that some games like cyber sleuth show that lucemon's different forms are counted as differnt levels and that the sistermons seem like angels like lucemon it could work like that
DarkKnightmon could work as a counterpart to Magnamon, since both of their X Antibody versions jump up to Level 6/Mega. But yeah, can't really argue with any of these, especially Deckerdramon. The fact that the Alien version of Cyberdramon is a Level 5/Ultimate means they really had no excuse with the crocodile
Great you're talking about this! It's been a while! Also hope you had a nice Easter and welcome back! (Since you last talked about it that is) Still awaiting that royal knights dna digivolution jogress video tho, but I'm patient and I hope you and your friends have enough budget for all of this. Happy for the Legends ZA video too!
I fully agree that the journey to the West Digimon should be mega level because we already got precedence for mega's fusing to create an even more powerful Digimon like Omnimon
Nah Gokumon is still growing and learning Much like hoe his literary Counterpart does He doesn't FEEL like he's reached thay mile stone, I'd argue him becoming a Buddha themed digimon like Wukong Does in Journey To the West/Chinese Myth would be his finale
its funny that you talk about the sistermon mode changes being a mode change, and then comes lucemon with its evolutions being still called lucemon but with the addition of a MODE xD btw, when i watched frontier the first time, i was convinced lucemon is always a mega, no matter which "mode" xD
I suspect the Lucemon "mess" is due to the line being a remnant of the original plan for the fourth season. Base "Lucemon" was supposed to be the kid equivalent to parallel Flamon/Strabimon. Falldown mode was likely the Human hybrid paralleling Agunimon/Wolfmon and Satan mode was the Beast hybrid paralleling Virtamon/Garummon.
thinking about Gokumon, gave me an idea Gokuwmon: Enlightment Mode Mega Level (because mode changes can totally change level) Virus God Man "After an eternity of journey's among trusted friends and fierce battles against the mightiest of foe, Gokuwmon has attained the deepest secrets of the Digital World. Though still a warrior by nature, it reserves it's power for only the most truly wicked of foes. With it's Higi: Zettai Shinken it can re-write the very code of the digital world around itself with it's fist, meaning that its opponent's defense is utterly worthless, if used with killing intent, there exists no foe who can survive a direct hit."
Mamemon is always my goto for wrong level Digimon. I love the big power in small package thing he's got going on, but man, the fact that he's the same level as MetalMamemon when clearly that's a Greymon>MetalGreymon situation is just nuts to me.
It's videos like this that inspired me to not only write my own Digimon series (or fanfic or what have you), but actively change certain Digimon's levels based on my personal preferences as well as your points Karn. I figure, since I'm not doing it for anyone except me, I can get away with it. Mind you, I'm not doing this for everyone, only the ones that I feel were mis-labeled like as you said Karn, Blimpmon and Deckerdramon. I even made the latter mega and part of the D-Brigade. However, I also admit to being a hypocrite, in that I made all of the protagonist human and beast spirit digimon champions (Agunimon/BurningGreymon, etc.) but the antagonist ones champion and ultimate respectively (Grumblemon/Gigasmon etc.) if only because I refuse to accept Sakkakumon as a champion. Sorry for getting long and rambly. Keep up the good work Karn.
Dame and tuwarmon were turned into a pseudo-mode change in the digital monster x (damemon turns into tuwar to attack) and in the cardgame its a slide evo. I think the rationale is that damemon literally opens up and inside is tuwarmon 😊 (Although thats probably due to the heavy toy influence in xros wars)
I don't really have any to argue about in the conversation, so I'm just going to point out a similar situation to AxeKnightmon/ DarkKnightmon. Lucemon X is clearly based on Lucemon Falldown Mode, but is a Mega Level. Though I can definitely see the transition. I don't know if I just don't have any contradictions in my head, or if the bug I've had the whole of March is still clouding my head.😓
hello karn, hope you're doing well as you read this! a couple of corrections/things to note regarding your last few sections: 1. dark knightmon did not have a level yet when dark knightmon X was created. it wasn't until about a year later that they gave all of the xros wars digimon levels. you got the order mixed up there. 2. damemon does not evolve into tuwarmon, damemon is a disguise *for* tuwarmon. while xros wars did not have levels, it did have evolution, and damemon does not evolve into tuwarmon until he's revived in hunters (which is something he directly states is different!). before then tuwarmon just transforms into damemon as a disguise back and forth with one of his techniques. it's sort of like how the card game has human and beast hybrids be the same level.
I mean I was making a joke about DarkKnightmon mostly lol And he still does Digivolve into Tuwarmon, I'm not just talking about his Xros Wars usage I mean as an overall Digimon
Parrotmon being an ultimate has always weirded me out. Like yeah he trounced Greymon in the movie, so it makes sense to put him a level above Greymon... But he still lost lmao. It was always strange when it comes up in the card game or elsewhere.
It was more of a tie really. An ultimate being defeated by a champion isn't really that farfetched. Also it looked like that Greymon pretty much killed itself in that final attack.
Pumpkinmon being an ultimate is wrong to me by 2 whole levels. I feel like he should be a rookie. Have it digi-volve into Bakemon not the other way around. Not just because I want it as my rookie partner 😅
It would have been so cool in frontier if they had to slide evolve from beast to human spirit to win a fight Showing that the human spirit makes up for its lack of strength with is composure and wisdom
Which of its rivals were made into Mega-level Digimon? Can only think of Ginkaku and Kinkakumon atm, which were made Champions... and their one "combined" form that's Perfect-level.
@@Justic_ Both Erlang Shen and Li Jing have recently become digimon, both are jogress and the result of 2 mega digimon fusing. Takutomon (Li Jing) is the fusion of Bryweludramon and Beowolfmon. Erlangmon is the fusion of Cherubimon (Virtue) and Metal Garurumon. There is alao apparently, a leak that Nezha is also gerting one soon
@@4wheal They're very clearly getting made into Digimon less in their role from Journey to the West, but as revered deities... also, while I'm aware Sun Wukong tussled at least with the guy Takutoumon is based on, I'm pretty sure his main rivalry was with Nezha from what I recall, so I'd wait until we know what level the Digimon that's supposedly going to be based on Nezha is going to be. Since the other two are based on Four Heavenly Kings afaik, while Nezha isn't one of them, there's a chance it won't be like them and might even just be Perfect-level. On the topic of how the other 2 evolve... I doubt they're gonna be Jogress, or at least the Jogress of these specific Digimon, when they appear in future media, I feel like they will get standalone lines eventually, because Beowulfmon and BryweLudramon make NO sense for Takutoumon, visually or lorewise, while Erlangmon I'll give makes a bit of sense at least, although MetalGarurumon also just visually while Cherubimon I'd assume thematically.
@Justic_ Hay doesn't mean they can't also pull from the journey to the west as well definitely with some cool character interactions. None of the digimon mentioned is a part of the heavenly kings, with the closest connection you have is Erlang being the son of 1. Also, i dont think they are going to go down that path because that would be the third group of Chinese gods based on the 4 directions, which would be a bit much at this point. Edit: Okay, I just found out that Li Jing is also linked with Vaiśravaṇa so he is one of the heavenly kings
Funny enough, back before Mega existed, Jijimon WAS an ultimate level digimon. Same with MetalEtemon, Machinedramon, Phoenixmon, and Hercules Kabuterimon who all(sorta) debuted in Digimon World 1 for the PSX. MetalEtemon is unique in that he was in the game files and could be accessed wih gameshark, but I don't know if he was like weregarurumon where he'd have an invisible model.
Personally I'm fine with most of their weirdness, I'd just change 3 things. 1. Give them a unique Lv3 so they don't just kinda start up from Lv4. Yes, I know Kokuwamon exists, but he's also kinda for the Kuwagamon line, and even more catered for the BladeKuwagamon and MetallifeKuwagamon line 2. Have Thunderballmon be the one that goes up into MetalMamemon, BigMamemon and CatchMamemon rather than letting Mamemon go up into them. Maybe it can slide digivolve to them, but that's it. 3. Give MetalMamemon a catered Lv6, ideally making it the one that carries on the electric theme from Thunderballmon rather than just using it for explosions like the others. I get that it's used for Machinedramon, but most of the other Digimon for that have a Lv6 on their own, so why not MetalMamemon?
@@metacat3106 I was mainly saying redo the stages because most of them are Perfect/Ultimate(International) also I only complain about Mamemon because he deserves better. He is basically the canonical partner in Digimon World 1.
I know why Numemon is a Champion, but I feel that there should be one at every level. Not an alteration, but a regular Numemon. That way it could always be used as a punishment for care mistakes at any level, but if you get it at Rookie it would have a wider than normal pool of potential forms to help you get back on track. This is not at all because I want Monzaemon to have a complete line and its lore makes Numemon the most fitting Rookie.
Syakomon works too, as Numemon is a mollusk. Snail-like clam creature into a slug monster definitely works, especially when there are Numemons with shells too.
@metacat3106 I've considered Syakomon before, but while the shell works for a Black King Numemon line, I feel like it clashes in a Monzaemon one. I like when there's cohesion in the line and the shell would only make sense as an early body before it switches to a plushie form if Numemon was the Rookie and Syakomon was the Champion.
I like the line being: Goasmon, Deckerdramon, Deckergreymon (like the dormant Greymon data being awakened), then Blitzgreymon. The abrupt color change in the mega does make it a little less appealing, I think everything else is really cool.
No! Stop! Bad! I have the exact opposite problem, I hate when Slide Evolutions are different levels! Everyone keeps saying the Best Spirits are Ultimates and Fusion Spirits are Megas but I HATE that, Slides should be the same level, so the Human and Beast are Champions, the Fusions are Ultimates, and the Unities are Megas! MadLeomon is perfectly fine as a Champion, stop trying to make slides different levels!
@@helixsol7171 No, MadLeomon is the SkullGreymon of the Leomon line. No spirits here. I'm not speaking of Lowemon or KaiserLeomon. Panjyamon being an evo of Leomon is something I don't like, tho.
@@kamikaze5528 I went on a tangent about Spirits because they're part of my main point about Slides. MadeLeomon is a Slide Evolution of Leomon, just as Angemon and Devimon are Slides and the same for MagnaAngemon and NeoDevimon. I fucking HATE it when Slide Evolutions are different levels or considered different levels, with the Spirits being the example of that. Sorry if I didn't make my point clearer the first time, but MadLeomon is and always should be a Champion because he is simply a corrupted Slide Evo of Leomon, as shown when he was purified and became Leomon when Mikey/Taiki assembled the Code Crown. If he was gonna be an Ultimate, then he should've Slide Evolved to IceLeomon/Panjyamon upon purification. To go with your SkullGreymon example, if it were to be purified and stay at the Ultimate level, it would become MetalGreymon. Slide Evos should NEVER be different levels and I will die on this hill.
On DarkKnightmon X becoming a Mega, I figured that Since he's Canonically meant to be the DNA Digivolution of Two Digimon, SkullKnightmon and DeadlyAxemon, the X-Antibody powers Both Halves up, granting enough of a Boost to push DarkKnightmon to the Next Power Stage... ...then there's the Possibility that Viral Mutation can also Enhance the Boost from the X-Antibody in Certain Powerful Virus-Type Digimon like with Lucemon, who also Jumps a Stage in their X-Form (from Falldown Mode)...
Maybe due to Leviamon? Though I guess to be fair, Leviamon is sealed away in the ocean and should never be awakened, so it kinda fits the Cthulhu concept, just doesn't look the part the way Dagomon/Dragomon does.
One Digimon that's I feel is the wrong level... Minervamon. Now... I can accept Minervamon being a Mega-level Digimon... if only it didn't have Mervamon as its digivolution! So I feel Minervamon should be Ultimate so that it can digivolve into Mervamon (now Mega). I dunno I just feel that Megas shouldn't be able get to a higher level through simple, normal digivolution.
I use to think that too, Blanc as the rookie, Noir as the Champion and Ciel as the ultimate; the only issue would be that Noir and Ciel are twin sisters, if only Ciel was the oldest it would’ve been amazing plus Ciel was made as a censorship for Noir so it makes sense why she’s the same level as Noir
Zanmetsumon just screams mega to me. Sagittarimon looks like a evolution for Flamedramon and/or Raidramon yet just another Armour. Speaking of which, Maildramon looks more than just another Armour. Why is Magnamon the only Miracle Armour to be a Mega?
I remember when I first saw Deckerdramon in Xros Wars and thought, "yeah, he seems pretty powerful"... and then I learned he was a Champion! "What? How? What?" (Which I think we can all agree to be three excellent questions) By the Sovereign, Xros Wars, you... I... man... or, "mon", I suppose... "Why is the strongest Digimon in this Zone acting like everyone else can kick his arse?" Is it any wonder I gave up on the logic with that one, not helped by the third part!
The Databook Writers didn't watch Xros Wars when deciding on levels for the digimon it introduced, therefore I don't consider the given levels as canon. I would like to see Karn's opinion on what level everything introduced in Xros Wars should have been. Deckergreymon should have been Level 6 Mega. Making Deckerdramon only level 4 Champion/Adult was wrong.
Totally agree with your picks again, as soon as i saw it i knew gokumon was gunna be there haha... always felt like a mega and stunted the line, i feel the same way with Asuramon which i hate as a ultimate, (dont like zambamon personally) but Asura could be great finishing location for alot of designs, even Gokumon to Asuramon works in my mind. Other than asuramon and my other noticable ones youve said b4 like gladimon, blimp, loco/grand loco and salamon 😅
Both Dark Knightmon and Skull Knightmon were always the biggest level confusion considering that I mistaken both to be Mega and Ultimate level respectively a lot. Especially since I can 100% see Gladimon becoming Skull Knightmon and regular Knightmon becoming Dark Knightmon when both tap into darkness/corruption
it feels like we are getting a fixing xros wars evolution video in the future. would like to see your take on fixing some of the evolutions/ custom art in the future
Many people may not care, but my lizard brain ass really thinks that how loosey goosey they run Digimon ranking levels and family lines is one of the reasons as to why digimon is hard to make games around and has a hard time attracting more people. I'm not saying have straight family lines. But like... They should have stricter guide lines. At least to the point that when something evolves weird it is special and not just "oh yeah, it's digimon doing the digimon thing again"
One thing I noticed. If the good digimon is small it will feel like a rookie and below as for plot Ex. Gatomom and Marine Angiemon If the evil digimon is small it's up to scale to its level Ex. Puppetmon
The skull version of Greymon is one stage above it, while the skull version of Knightmon is one stage below it. We actually have to find it funny because these levels are definitely not about making sense 😂
I feel this way about Mephistomon and Mephistomon X Antibody, I just assumed Mephis X was Mega when making custom evo lines and was so surprised when I found out it wasn't! I know Magnamon and Darkknightmon jump levels in the TCG so I just thought that one did too...
I love your videos, and im wondering if you'd consider doing a crossover video giving each Playable Lord from the Fire Emblem series a digimon and digivolution line that fits that character. I got one idea that works pretty well imo: Roy from Fire Emblem 7 with Guilmon, which digivolves all the way to Gallantmon Crimson Mode.
The first part of that is pretty common, but the Gokumon to Jijimon is new to me. That's kinda cool, fits in with the grandparent Digimon seeming like these old Digimon that won't be that strong but are actually crazy powerful and if you saw their 'younger' forms you'd know how much danger you're actually in by underestimating them.
Excellent video. A lot of what you said matches exactly what I always thought. GotsumonX and the Sistermon have always bothered me, but the digimon from XrosWars are really the worst that Bandai has ever given us in terms of level confusion. Deckerdramon is an interesting case. I agree with you, he would work much better as an Ultimate. When Cargodramon was released, I was disappointed that it wasn't included on a D-Brigade DIM card. It fits easily alongside Cargodramon as an amphibious transport. Only a purely land troop transport would be missing, and the D-Brigade would have a complete trio of tactical vehicles.
I was so surprised to learn Gokuwmon wasn't a Mega. A little disappointed too, because that put a whole in my idea for Makuramon being its Ultimate form.
I had this idea for so long now that I can’t hold it in my head anymore I recently rewatched Digimon Xros Wars and in that crossover episode a had a thought in my head what would a Digicross between Shoutmon/Omegashoutmon and the other Main Digimon (omnimon/omegamon, imperialdramon, Gallantmon , Susanoomon and Shinegreymon ) look like I would love to see a Omegashoutmon x Imperialdramon FM fusion
Similar train of thought to several of the ones you mentioned here, it's amusing/baffling to me that there is no relation between Mephistomon and Phelesmon, despite them having two halves of the same namesake. They're even the same level!
@@Karn_EXbut aren't they just Mega's? Going off Gatchimon it's pretty clearly The rookie, then DoGatchimon is the champion, Globemon is Ultimate, Gaiamon is the Mega Or does the one never localized video game have another stage the anime just didn't bother with because that's where my knowledge came from?
HAPPY SUNDAY NOTIFICATION SQUAD! If you liked this video please like it, 1200 likes and I'll do this again!
cool
In Hacker's Memory Sistermon Blance Awaken is a Champion level Digimon.
You not mentioning Petermon who is Adult stage instead of Child, is a Crime.
Thanks for the video Karn, we surely bash our heads for this digimon levels, maybe the best answer to this is to put a new rule to adult and perfect levels, like how the first two stages are baby 1 and baby 2
With the rule that any adult digimon can evolve into any adult AND perfect so for example Guardromon could evolve into Blimpmon, and monochromon could evolve into deckerdramon despite being adult level, so they could keep the levels they have, while also could be use as 5th stage evo regardless of their level, leaving something like this:
Baby 1-> Baby 2-> Child-> Adult-> Adult or Perfect-> Ultimate
The lack of X-Anti variants of in Cyber Sleuth game was a missed opportunity. It would have been cool if they developed due to player action in the latter half of the game as a slide evolution. Thoughts?
By the way, the reason why Lucemon falldown mode is ultimate, not mega, is because in Japan, the level is called perfect and Lucemon is to prideful to accept not being purfect
Oh interesting, that's fun!
So... being better than perfect signifies inferiority? Is that why he's the leader?
Ok but why is standard Lucemon just not a small Champion instead like Gatomon and is a rookie?
Like it would make sense if there was an Adult Lucemon in-between standard and Fallen but there's not
@@elemomnialpha Because he is meant to be a child, which is the name of the rookie level.
As for why there isn't a champion/ adult stage, i dont really know
@@4wheal I assume since, in the anime, Lucemon absorbs two mega levels (and not any, two royal knights), it jumps straight up to Ultimate instead of just champion. So basically, we'd just need a champion version of Lucemon being an awkward teen Groot-style and we'd be golden.
Funny you mention the Sistermons. While they are indeed modechanges, Cyber Sleuth makes it so that awakened forms basically equivalent to Megas in terms of power and conditions to evolve to. So yes, Sistermon Awakened forms should just be Megas.
Gatomon not being a Rookie level has always been weird to me. Especially with the First two seasons of the anime making her more of a "Depowered" Champion. Feels like making it a Rookie would have been easier.
In adventure gatomon beat the other champions gatomon was strong until her lost her sacred ring
@@miguelangelhernandezsolis7849that truth she A rookie or champion I want to know witch she is
@miguelangelhernandezsolis7849 I can wish Karn ex can make a list all of digimon Evolution in order
@@miguelangelhernandezsolis7849and all they special attacks too
But the line would make so much sense if she WAS a rookie!
Baby - Nyaromon
In-Training - Salamon
Rookie - Gatomon
Champion - Angewomon
Ultimate - Magnadramon
Mega - Ophanimon
I personally really like it this way
Pumpkinmon. The anime pairing him with Gotsumon who is the same size and has a very similar personality convinced me that both of them are rookies but then I found out that Pumpkinmon is an ULTIMATE level?!!? The idea that this goofy little guy serving under Myotismon was the same level as him the whole time is just baffling to me. I kinda get wanting him to be able to Digivolve from Bakemon but I think a slide evolution would have worked fine for that.
Well, not all ultimate lvl is equal in power.
Pumpkinmon would be a sick Rookie. It could be a chaotic neutral Nightmare Soldier that could either go good or bad depending on its Tamer. Even its ability top drop a pumpkin on someone sounds like a Marching Fishes style move.
@@zeroanimation3956 True but, even still, Ghost Game Pumpkinmon was defeated by BetelGammamon who doesn't seem especially strong for a Champion
@@NegaHumanXI think champion would be better for Pumpkinmon, to me I like the idea for Ghostmon digivolving into Pumpkinmon because Ghostmon just gives off Pumpkinmon pre evolution vibes to me and I think NoblePumpkinmon should stay a mega and they create a new ultimate for Pumpkinmon because why not
I know Nefertimon's an armor, and it's level is supposed to be separate, but I've always thought it would've been better if Gatomon had reverted to Salamon and then armor digivolved instead of being in a strange middle state. It just puts her in a weird spot compared to the other 02 partners
Thing is I feel like a lot of that jank is some of the charm of digimon. Oh gatomon counts as a rookie now because she lost her holy ring? Sure, I'm down.
@@shadenox8164 But should it not be that Gatomon is a rookie, but got powered up by the Ring, instead of a weak Champion Level when they naturally occur in the wild.
I’ve always been confused by Angemon and Angewomon being different levels from each other. They’re clearly designed to be counterparts, so idk why they aren’t equals.
Edit: please, everybody, please, stop trying to explain this. It’s just making me more annoyed because none of you understand my complaint. These two look near identical except for the presence of secondary sexual characteristics, and it’s just weird to me that giving Angemon boobs makes him go up a level.
It’d be like if in Pokemon Nidoran female evolved normally (Nidorina->Nidoqueen) but Nidoran male evolved directly into Nidoking then Nidoemperor after.
cause simply their prevos are of different levels Gatomon´s a champion while Patamon´s a rookie
Girlboss
@@enderborn6860 ok, but they didn’t need to do that either.
@GurrenPrime they did, when gatom9j first appeared in the show, she beat all the other digidestined champion digimon
@@devalphamon7289 everything in Digimon is made up by the creators. If they wanted to give Angemon a counterpart, they didn’t need to make the counterpart’s prevo stronger than him.
Deckerdramon destroying a bunch of Cyberdramon in the anime was also wild
I thought it was a Mega because of that...
That's cuz scaling in Xros is Dog Shit
@@RocketSlime While that is true, this Deckerdramon feat happened in the Adventure Reboot
@@taso8774 it's almost like Adventure also has war greymon with help (the gaia force) somehow beat fcking millenniumon which simply was mega stupid so scaling clearly wasn't on their minds)
I still think thundermon and mamemon should swap levels. It's always annoyed me that the only way for them to exist in the same line was for thundermon to loose it's electric theming on evolution. Plus then Mamemon could actually evolve into other members of its family instead of being the same level as all of them
Hah yeah I can see that
Actually yeah why isn't Mamemon treated like Greymon and Garurumon as being a lower level with a ton of evolutions
Mamemon always should have been champion & then Jiromon is another problem. Why does Digimon make Mame Balls into Stage 5 by default? They should have been an evolution family rather than what we ended up with.
I think Damemon and Tuwarmon been the same level is based on how of Xros Wars treated Tuwarmon as a mode change rather than evolution until Young Hunters
I will never stop being frustrated by levels of Xros Wars Digimon and Deckerdramon is definitely my # 1 most frustrating mislevel. Him not being able to digivolve straight into Leviamon and maybe even Rustyranomon feels like such a miss.
Haha agreed
I like the concept that the show used... But I really doslike DigiMon using the gimic, though. I'll even go as far as really liking GabuMon, GatoMon, OmniMon, and the awesome looking MercyMon (hate that the DataSquad name is the same as the overly complicated looking Olympiis 12 firey NarDog thing) wearing to the parts of orher DigiMon. I kinda wish there was more coheasion with GatoMon digivolving InTo SaberLeoMon, or a variant of GatoMon with LeoMon's sword but maybe UnSharpend and just being a club that evolved to a be sharp along with the variant GatoMon as it went from LeoMon to LeoMon x or MercuryMon.
@@Karn_EXHave you ever don a video on DigiMon that wear parts of other Digimon, and not specifically 1s like ChimeraMon that are just MixMatched to just look like they are made of other DigiMon???
I guess most of the SpiritDigiVovutions fit that category, too. Some armors do that, while others really don't.
I feel that certain Digimon should have multiple levels. That way the shows can do their thing and still have room to make sense in the wider fandom.
Darktyrannomon. I always thought it was an ultimate because it took Togemon evolving into Lillymon to be able to defeat him. But no?It turns out he’s just a champion.
I hate it.
It makes Togemon/Lillymon look so weak.
The thing is... Lilimon didn't defeat him. In that scene in particular, seeing how DarkTyrannomon was berserking and understanding it's due to having a virus, Mimi wanted to stop him and save him, hence Togemon evolved and purified him, Vamdemon kills him then for being no longer his minion. ruclips.net/video/ZJyk0iOYCMo/видео.html
Also, I mean it's just a funny boxing cactus versus a giant armored muscular ancient tank-like reptile of death... Obviously Togemon can't overcome that. Greymon is the strongest among all adult levels in the group and DarkTyrannomon rivals his battle prowess. So don't expect Togemon, a rather weaker adult to beat DarkTyrannomon.
I like DarkTyrannomon as a slide for Tyrannomon, but I wish that episode used MasterTyrannomon. I don't know if they had him at the time, but it would have been a better fit.
I mean powerscale wise, lilymon is like the weakest ultimate among the 8 digidestined atp 😂
Even birdramon got its evolution only to FLEE from Vamdemon.
And then we have angemon killing phantomon an ultimate with one holy attack
@kgjames3603 but reboot lilymon didnt fight darktyranomon (?) haha
I agree tho reboot lilymon rocks ! I even wished she would evolve to bancholilymon instead of regular rosemon hahaha
@@WarGrey_I press X to doubt. I think Garurumon, Kabuterimon, and Angemon are contendors for beeing the strongest. Tailmon arguably defeated him once.
I can never get over Eyesmon and Shademon. They both look a like and are connected to each other in the card game. Both are Champions. I cannot get it out of my head that Eyesmon should be the Champion, Shademon the ultimate and Abbadomon as the Mega.
With Negamon and Soundbirdmon filling out the rest of the line.
I think, in the case of Damemon and Tuwarmon, it's because the gimmick of the original one is that Damemon never was meant to be a "rookie" of Towarmon or anything like that. Damemon was a disguise to hide his power and personality, not even an evolution, just a mode change.
The third season just made it weird by making it an 'super digivolution' when it didn't even fit.
In Digimon Xros Wars, Tuwarmon was the "true form", while Damemon was a weaker form he could transform into at will. In Hunters due to being reborn after death, Damemon could no longer be Tuwarmon naturally, so had to rely on Digivolution.
I was always confused that Warumonzaemon was the same level as Monzaemon and not an evolution, it is so much more detailed than Monzaemon that is suggests evolution. Also there is the whole thing with the keychain on Etemon and Metaletemon's waist, suggesting it evolved with him.
The Monzaemon line needs cohesion.
Tbf warumonzaemon is basically the dark evo version of monzaemon
@@michaelliggett1622 yeah pretty much I get that but the increased detail suggested a higher level.
@@thenerdbeast7375 exactly, seadramon and waruseadramon are related, as champion and perfect, monzaemon and warumonzaemon should be the same
Same. Especially since the Adventure kids (well Togemon) fought a Monzaemon 1 on 1, always thought it was a champion level Digimon growing up until I looked it up later in life
100% agree with you on Deckerdramon. Also, Lucemon also goes from being a perfect/ultimate stage to an ultimate/mega stage when it becomes an X antibody, like DarkKnightmon... actually, apparently the X antibody is just "Lucemon", without the "Falldown" bit? So it goes from Child to Ultimate, I guess?
I think that's mostly because X-Antibody Digimon don't really have mode changes
For me Metalphantomon. Definitively looks like a Phantomon evolution and it's way too cool to be the same level. Should be a Mega imo.
Bakemon > Soulmon > Phantomon > Metal Phantomon > Reapermon is the full line from Champion to Mega.
Deckermon, or ProtoDeckerdramon. Deckerdramon without the missiles on his back and the weapon on his tail. A prototype for a weapon-platform system currently in development. XD
Hah nice idea
Even before the video, I would love another video like this
Haha thank you
me when madleomon is just as strong as regular leomon despite being double the size
Omg so true
Right?!? MadLeomon could easily be the transition between Leomon and SaberLeomon since it's hunched over, going from bipedal, to hunched, to quadruped, though, I would prefer if they were the same colour scheme, like maybe a purified MadLeomon. I could also see MadLeomon being a DNA digivolution of Leomon and Ogremon.
MadLeomon is unfortunately a case of being a Dark Variant of the Original - his Size is just part of the Viral Corruption, making him Seem Stronger. He could've easily Been an Ultimate-Level Digimon, but his Transformations in Xros Wars made Bandai Namco Rank him Lower to allow for the Leaps in Power his other Forms suggested - being Defeated by Shoutmon X3 however even in his Full-Powered Darkness Mode though, suggests that Every Form he took was Ultimate-Level at Best, justifying a Champion-Level Ranking in his Base Form...
@@lianaverwood9810 But they already have DarkLeomon/Corrupted Leomon from adventure (Leomon with the black gears) as a variant, creating another version on top of that and still have it be at the Champion level seems redundant. Usually form changes are just the Digimon at the same level, but stronger, and the creators could've easily done that with MadLeomon's forms if they'd wanted, made MadLeomon an Ultimate, and his forms as still Ultimate level but stronger.
@@dewandrop4064 Just being Controlled by some Black Gears doesn't really constitute a Form Change, so that Argument falls apart. And while Variant Forms do often take the Form of Recolours, they're often Released around the Time the Base Form is Made - MadLeomon was Designed Many Seasons after Leomon's First Appearance, so Bandai had Plenty of Time to come up with a Unique Visual Design to provide for him to Differentiate from the Leomon Past: it didn't Prevent him from Succumbing to the Leomon Curse, but at least he Looked Good doing it!
I whole heartedly agree with the X-antibody part of this video, for me it’s Gazimon who’s X-antibody feels like it’s a level up and cool be FeralGazimon or something
Angewomon X is one that really gets me. When I've played around with levels, I have a non-holy ring Gatomon as a rookie, then D'arcmon as the champion, to Angewomon, to 'MagnaAngewomon' (Angewomon X) as a mega. I really like renaming X digiomon and using them as a step up or alternate. Another is I like using the X form of Black Wargreymon, but the normal version of Wargreymon, kinda symbolizing the standard more balanced, and the virus more aggressive forms.
I feel like X-Antibody mons should be a kind of .5 level, like how the Armours were treated in the anime. Not as powerful of an upgrade as a full transformation, but similar to the Kaio-ken. A quick boost they can get under certain circumstances, but at a cost.
@@NegaHumanX There are some that really feel like that, like, Agumon X is the immediate one that comes to mind to me. Like it is stronger than Agumon but weaker than Greymon. To me there is a weird blend of those more powerful but still same level, and then some that are just "You could totally just be a new Digimon of a higher level"
i never noticed how similar jijimon and mojyamon are.... crazy
Lesgooooooo sistermon in thumbnail the 3 of them deserve more recognition
Yaaaay! Agreed!
I'd be more into them if they had full digivolution lines.
And smash too 👍
I'll be honest, I never liked the way they leveled the Digimon in general. It started going back when they put a hard limit on the levels with Mega, and then still usually kept stronger Digimon at the "Mega" level which just stopped making sense. If they wanted a level system, they should have functioned it as a digital theme, like so:
- Bit (Baby)
- Byte (In-Training)
- Kilo (Rookie)
- Mega (Champion)
- Giga (Ultimate/Perfect)
- Tera (Mega/Ultimate)
And then make higher levels be a higher data size, like after Tera, there's Peta, Exa, Zetta, and so on.
8:15 Damemon in Young Hunters is a prime example of slide evolution not properly existing outside of Frontier. He _warp evolves_ from Champion to Champion while everyone else in Young Hunters warp evolves to ultimate (except Gumdramon for some reason, Arresterdramon is also only champion stage in the reference book)
Yeah, the whole Cho-Shinka (Warp Evolution) Element in Young Hunters seemed more like Toei were Doubling Down on Not giving the Xros Wars Digimon legitimate Levels, so they used that Term to say "We aren't going to tell you How Many Stages they've Evolved, deal with it!".
With the eventually Released Evo Stages on the Xros Wars Digimon, we see Why - we have Rookie->Champion, Rookie->Ultimate, Champion->Ultimate, Champion->Mega, and even *CHAMPION->CHAMPION!*
The Stages for Digimon that Generation were never given Any Consideration, so Bandai half-assed things when it came to actually Giving them Official Power Stages...
dekerdramon being adult level fucks with me with how he is perceived in xross wars, he should be perfect level
The worst part about the Damemon and Tuwarmon thing is that in the Young Hunters season they retcon Damemon digivolving into Tuwarmon and it not just being a mode change.
In Digimon Xros Wars, Tuwarmon was the "true form", while Damemon was a weaker form he could transform into at will. In Hunters due to being reborn after death, Damemon could no longer be Tuwarmon naturally, so had to rely on Digivolution.
Yea, which just feels like a retcon to me.
@@ItMeZae Well, it isn't.
@@TheTakato122 If you say so.
my headcanon is the evolution level is a sign of age until champion, at least that's how the japanese name works (baby-child-adult instead of in training-rookie-champion). anything beyond that requires combat experience and powering up. like an agumon who does nothing will eventually become greymon. but if that greymon does nothing he will die a greymon without ever becoming metal greymon
I think what's holding Digimon back from competing with Pokemon is that it's unnecessarily messy, Pokemon follows a very simple system that makes it easy to memorize all the Pokemon, the games encourage you to "catch 'em all", gives each Pokemon a number and many other details unique to it, it makes every single Pokemon important in some way.
In Digimon they're just a bunch of cool looking creatures, it's hard to keep track of them.
Thank Karn as somebody whos favorite Digimon is Deckerdramon i get so many time where people are just like wait he's a champion god it tivks because he's so cool
most weird thing for me is that they didnt release any new levels. Something like Giga and Terra after Mega. Would work with the digital theme...more data stuff etc. and would give a lot of "overpowered" megas more of a unique/own level
Lucemon immediately came to mind as he is so overpowered, also Impmon going straight to mega was like what? XD It felt like a bit of a cop out, but it also makes sense it terms of the anime, but still feels a bit like he got it without earning it, especially compared to Guilmon's forced digivolution to Megidramon, which almost destroyed the digital world, and actually made sense in terms of the story!
I think, THINK what happens with cases like "Deckerdramon + Metalgreymon(2010)" not becoming a mega is that the Digimon have to be able to fuse in a certain way, like how fusing Metalgreymon(2010) with Cyberdramon(2010) also doesn't make a mega. Many Digimon from Xroswars feel a stage lower than they should be which is weird when this feels like it was already written in; If the component Digimon is not fully incorporated or is repurposed through fusion then the base Digimon's stage doesn't increase.
The thing is Upgraded Ultimates exist which ard between Mega and Ultimate which is what DeckerGreymon and Launcher MODE are
5:23 i also feel like the fact that some games like cyber sleuth show that lucemon's different forms are counted as differnt levels and that the sistermons seem like angels like lucemon it could work like that
DarkKnightmon could work as a counterpart to Magnamon, since both of their X Antibody versions jump up to Level 6/Mega.
But yeah, can't really argue with any of these, especially Deckerdramon. The fact that the Alien version of Cyberdramon is a Level 5/Ultimate means they really had no excuse with the crocodile
Great you're talking about this! It's been a while! Also hope you had a nice Easter and welcome back! (Since you last talked about it that is) Still awaiting that royal knights dna digivolution jogress video tho, but I'm patient and I hope you and your friends have enough budget for all of this. Happy for the Legends ZA video too!
There are soooooo many situations like this I'd love to see more
Also i completely missed the notification lol
MusoKnightmon does have a level its refrence book listing, but DeadlyTuwarmon still needs it
I fully agree that the journey to the West Digimon should be mega level because we already got precedence for mega's fusing to create an even more powerful Digimon like Omnimon
Nah Gokumon is still growing and learning Much like hoe his literary Counterpart does He doesn't FEEL like he's reached thay mile stone, I'd argue him becoming a Buddha themed digimon like Wukong Does in Journey To the West/Chinese Myth would be his finale
its funny that you talk about the sistermon mode changes being a mode change, and then comes lucemon with its evolutions being still called lucemon but with the addition of a MODE xD
btw, when i watched frontier the first time, i was convinced lucemon is always a mega, no matter which "mode" xD
I suspect the Lucemon "mess" is due to the line being a remnant of the original plan for the fourth season. Base "Lucemon" was supposed to be the kid equivalent to parallel Flamon/Strabimon. Falldown mode was likely the Human hybrid paralleling Agunimon/Wolfmon and Satan mode was the Beast hybrid paralleling Virtamon/Garummon.
thinking about Gokumon, gave me an idea
Gokuwmon: Enlightment Mode
Mega Level (because mode changes can totally change level)
Virus
God Man
"After an eternity of journey's among trusted friends and fierce battles against the mightiest of foe, Gokuwmon has attained the deepest secrets of the Digital World. Though still a warrior by nature, it reserves it's power for only the most truly wicked of foes. With it's Higi: Zettai Shinken it can re-write the very code of the digital world around itself with it's fist, meaning that its opponent's defense is utterly worthless, if used with killing intent, there exists no foe who can survive a direct hit."
Mamemon is always my goto for wrong level Digimon. I love the big power in small package thing he's got going on, but man, the fact that he's the same level as MetalMamemon when clearly that's a Greymon>MetalGreymon situation is just nuts to me.
0:13 **looks at special moves** They seriously made a Hindenburg digimon...
i think cupimon is at the right lvl. he can be the odd in-training together with demiveemon.
It's videos like this that inspired me to not only write my own Digimon series (or fanfic or what have you), but actively change certain Digimon's levels based on my personal preferences as well as your points Karn. I figure, since I'm not doing it for anyone except me, I can get away with it. Mind you, I'm not doing this for everyone, only the ones that I feel were mis-labeled like as you said Karn, Blimpmon and Deckerdramon. I even made the latter mega and part of the D-Brigade. However, I also admit to being a hypocrite, in that I made all of the protagonist human and beast spirit digimon champions (Agunimon/BurningGreymon, etc.) but the antagonist ones champion and ultimate respectively (Grumblemon/Gigasmon etc.) if only because I refuse to accept Sakkakumon as a champion. Sorry for getting long and rambly. Keep up the good work Karn.
1:38 Tom will remember that.
Oh god that proto joke at the beginning killed me 😂
How is this comment a day old on when the video is only 6 hours old?
Barely notified, liked instantly again!
You da best!
Giants metal alligator covered in guns…. Feels like a rookie to me
Facts 😂
You saying that, in all seriousness makes me think of ultimate Dekerdramon into Gundramon
Dame and tuwarmon were turned into a pseudo-mode change in the digital monster x (damemon turns into tuwar to attack) and in the cardgame its a slide evo.
I think the rationale is that damemon literally opens up and inside is tuwarmon 😊
(Although thats probably due to the heavy toy influence in xros wars)
2:28 Speaking of which, Monzaemon and WaruMonzaemon (sry for spelling) both being ultimate is also odd.
One a dark evo the other a regular
For me I am good with Darkknightmon being Perfect level, Craniumon is his Mega form, yea...the X antibody looks too nice to be Perfect.
I don't really have any to argue about in the conversation, so I'm just going to point out a similar situation to AxeKnightmon/
DarkKnightmon.
Lucemon X is clearly based on Lucemon Falldown Mode, but is a Mega Level.
Though I can definitely see the transition.
I don't know if I just don't have any contradictions in my head, or if the bug I've had the whole of March is still clouding my head.😓
Love the editing in this one. Would you ever do a video about Digimon moves from the games and shows and such?
Thanks! Maybe one day!
I have only just now learned about blimpmon and i love him if i were a digidestand i want blimpmon as my partner
He's SO good
hello karn, hope you're doing well as you read this! a couple of corrections/things to note regarding your last few sections:
1. dark knightmon did not have a level yet when dark knightmon X was created. it wasn't until about a year later that they gave all of the xros wars digimon levels. you got the order mixed up there.
2. damemon does not evolve into tuwarmon, damemon is a disguise *for* tuwarmon. while xros wars did not have levels, it did have evolution, and damemon does not evolve into tuwarmon until he's revived in hunters (which is something he directly states is different!). before then tuwarmon just transforms into damemon as a disguise back and forth with one of his techniques. it's sort of like how the card game has human and beast hybrids be the same level.
I mean I was making a joke about DarkKnightmon mostly lol
And he still does Digivolve into Tuwarmon, I'm not just talking about his Xros Wars usage I mean as an overall Digimon
Happy Sundau Karn EX!
Now it's time for level fixing.
7:01
Ability: Baby Eater or whatever it says
Damemon would make a good Scumon Golden Armour.
Parrotmon being an ultimate has always weirded me out. Like yeah he trounced Greymon in the movie, so it makes sense to put him a level above Greymon... But he still lost lmao. It was always strange when it comes up in the card game or elsewhere.
It was more of a tie really. An ultimate being defeated by a champion isn't really that farfetched. Also it looked like that Greymon pretty much killed itself in that final attack.
@@nexusshark An L is an L in the animal kingdom.
@@chrisa.2323 But we are not in the animal kingdom.
PLEASE IM BEGGING IM BEGGING YOU XROS WARS VIDEO
Pumpkinmon being an ultimate is wrong to me by 2 whole levels. I feel like he should be a rookie. Have it digi-volve into Bakemon not the other way around. Not just because I want it as my rookie partner 😅
It would have been so cool in frontier if they had to slide evolve from beast to human spirit to win a fight
Showing that the human spirit makes up for its lack of strength with is composure and wisdom
Yay, with more of Sun Wukong rivals and opponents becoming digimon and often getting mega level, it makes it odd that gokumon is only a ultimate level
Yay?
Which of its rivals were made into Mega-level Digimon? Can only think of Ginkaku and Kinkakumon atm, which were made Champions... and their one "combined" form that's Perfect-level.
@@Justic_ Both Erlang Shen and Li Jing have recently become digimon, both are jogress and the result of 2 mega digimon fusing.
Takutomon (Li Jing) is the fusion of Bryweludramon and Beowolfmon.
Erlangmon is the fusion of Cherubimon (Virtue) and Metal Garurumon.
There is alao apparently, a leak that Nezha is also gerting one soon
@@4wheal They're very clearly getting made into Digimon less in their role from Journey to the West, but as revered deities... also, while I'm aware Sun Wukong tussled at least with the guy Takutoumon is based on, I'm pretty sure his main rivalry was with Nezha from what I recall, so I'd wait until we know what level the Digimon that's supposedly going to be based on Nezha is going to be. Since the other two are based on Four Heavenly Kings afaik, while Nezha isn't one of them, there's a chance it won't be like them and might even just be Perfect-level.
On the topic of how the other 2 evolve... I doubt they're gonna be Jogress, or at least the Jogress of these specific Digimon, when they appear in future media, I feel like they will get standalone lines eventually, because Beowulfmon and BryweLudramon make NO sense for Takutoumon, visually or lorewise, while Erlangmon I'll give makes a bit of sense at least, although MetalGarurumon also just visually while Cherubimon I'd assume thematically.
@Justic_ Hay doesn't mean they can't also pull from the journey to the west as well definitely with some cool character interactions.
None of the digimon mentioned is a part of the heavenly kings, with the closest connection you have is Erlang being the son of 1.
Also, i dont think they are going to go down that path because that would be the third group of Chinese gods based on the 4 directions, which would be a bit much at this point.
Edit: Okay, I just found out that Li Jing is also linked with Vaiśravaṇa so he is one of the heavenly kings
The sistermons' "awakened" modes are classified as the next stage up in Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth/Hacker's Memory.
Funny enough, back before Mega existed, Jijimon WAS an ultimate level digimon. Same with MetalEtemon, Machinedramon, Phoenixmon, and Hercules Kabuterimon who all(sorta) debuted in Digimon World 1 for the PSX. MetalEtemon is unique in that he was in the game files and could be accessed wih gameshark, but I don't know if he was like weregarurumon where he'd have an invisible model.
Awesome video
Thanks!
@@Karn_EX I love your videos they are fantastic all of them
@@Karn_EX I always thought if Gotomon was rookie or a champion she is a rookie
I think they should redo the Mamemon family as a whole (except BanchoMamemon)
Personally I'm fine with most of their weirdness, I'd just change 3 things.
1. Give them a unique Lv3 so they don't just kinda start up from Lv4. Yes, I know Kokuwamon exists, but he's also kinda for the Kuwagamon line, and even more catered for the BladeKuwagamon and MetallifeKuwagamon line
2. Have Thunderballmon be the one that goes up into MetalMamemon, BigMamemon and CatchMamemon rather than letting Mamemon go up into them. Maybe it can slide digivolve to them, but that's it.
3. Give MetalMamemon a catered Lv6, ideally making it the one that carries on the electric theme from Thunderballmon rather than just using it for explosions like the others. I get that it's used for Machinedramon, but most of the other Digimon for that have a Lv6 on their own, so why not MetalMamemon?
@@metacat3106 I was mainly saying redo the stages because most of them are Perfect/Ultimate(International) also I only complain about Mamemon because he deserves better. He is basically the canonical partner in Digimon World 1.
Jiromon, Mamemon, Metal Mamemon, & Big Mamemon shouldn't all be Level 5. Also, I didn't realize there was a Level 4 Mamemon.
I know why Numemon is a Champion, but I feel that there should be one at every level. Not an alteration, but a regular Numemon. That way it could always be used as a punishment for care mistakes at any level, but if you get it at Rookie it would have a wider than normal pool of potential forms to help you get back on track.
This is not at all because I want Monzaemon to have a complete line and its lore makes Numemon the most fitting Rookie.
Not sure if you knew already or not but Burpmon does that!
Syakomon works too, as Numemon is a mollusk. Snail-like clam creature into a slug monster definitely works, especially when there are Numemons with shells too.
@metacat3106 I've considered Syakomon before, but while the shell works for a Black King Numemon line, I feel like it clashes in a Monzaemon one.
I like when there's cohesion in the line and the shell would only make sense as an early body before it switches to a plushie form if Numemon was the Rookie and Syakomon was the Champion.
@@couchpotato3197 I just read up on Burpmon. That's pretty much what I was thinking.
I like the line being: Goasmon, Deckerdramon, Deckergreymon (like the dormant Greymon data being awakened), then Blitzgreymon. The abrupt color change in the mega does make it a little less appealing, I think everything else is really cool.
Somehow MadLeomon not being Perfect level drives me nuts.
One more for the X-wars mix-up.
No! Stop! Bad! I have the exact opposite problem, I hate when Slide Evolutions are different levels! Everyone keeps saying the Best Spirits are Ultimates and Fusion Spirits are Megas but I HATE that, Slides should be the same level, so the Human and Beast are Champions, the Fusions are Ultimates, and the Unities are Megas! MadLeomon is perfectly fine as a Champion, stop trying to make slides different levels!
@@helixsol7171 No, MadLeomon is the SkullGreymon of the Leomon line.
No spirits here. I'm not speaking of Lowemon or KaiserLeomon.
Panjyamon being an evo of Leomon is something I don't like, tho.
@@kamikaze5528
I went on a tangent about Spirits because they're part of my main point about Slides. MadeLeomon is a Slide Evolution of Leomon, just as Angemon and Devimon are Slides and the same for MagnaAngemon and NeoDevimon. I fucking HATE it when Slide Evolutions are different levels or considered different levels, with the Spirits being the example of that. Sorry if I didn't make my point clearer the first time, but MadLeomon is and always should be a Champion because he is simply a corrupted Slide Evo of Leomon, as shown when he was purified and became Leomon when Mikey/Taiki assembled the Code Crown. If he was gonna be an Ultimate, then he should've Slide Evolved to IceLeomon/Panjyamon upon purification. To go with your SkullGreymon example, if it were to be purified and stay at the Ultimate level, it would become MetalGreymon. Slide Evos should NEVER be different levels and I will die on this hill.
@@helixsol7171 I don't like that MadLeomon is a slide for Leomon. That's the whole point. Should be a straight evo, like Greymon to Skullgreymon.
@@kamikaze5528
Well then why does MadLeomon become Leomon instead of IceLeomon/Panjyamon?!
On DarkKnightmon X becoming a Mega, I figured that Since he's Canonically meant to be the DNA Digivolution of Two Digimon, SkullKnightmon and DeadlyAxemon, the X-Antibody powers Both Halves up, granting enough of a Boost to push DarkKnightmon to the Next Power Stage...
...then there's the Possibility that Viral Mutation can also Enhance the Boost from the X-Antibody in Certain Powerful Virus-Type Digimon like with Lucemon, who also Jumps a Stage in their X-Form (from Falldown Mode)...
Dagomon (aka Dragomon) should be the Mega of MarineDevimon. Why am I to be denied my Cthulhu line of Syakomon -> Gesomon -> MarineDevimon -> Dagomon?
Maybe due to Leviamon? Though I guess to be fair, Leviamon is sealed away in the ocean and should never be awakened, so it kinda fits the Cthulhu concept, just doesn't look the part the way Dagomon/Dragomon does.
One Digimon that's I feel is the wrong level... Minervamon.
Now... I can accept Minervamon being a Mega-level Digimon... if only it didn't have Mervamon as its digivolution!
So I feel Minervamon should be Ultimate so that it can digivolve into Mervamon (now Mega).
I dunno I just feel that Megas shouldn't be able get to a higher level through simple, normal digivolution.
My hot take on the sisters is that Ciel should be an Ultimate then we’ll have a sister of a different level
I use to think that too, Blanc as the rookie, Noir as the Champion and Ciel as the ultimate; the only issue would be that Noir and Ciel are twin sisters, if only Ciel was the oldest it would’ve been amazing plus Ciel was made as a censorship for Noir so it makes sense why she’s the same level as Noir
I what make a whole list of Digimon in order if you do that I will be grateful think make new story ideas in my head
Zanmetsumon just screams mega to me.
Sagittarimon looks like a evolution for Flamedramon and/or Raidramon yet just another Armour.
Speaking of which, Maildramon looks more than just another Armour. Why is Magnamon the only Miracle Armour to be a Mega?
My problem is why dagon mon not a mega? Culthu definitely a mega
Best vid yet bro.
Dekerdramon being shown as some godly figure upon introduction only to be given champion rank
I remember when I first saw Deckerdramon in Xros Wars and thought, "yeah, he seems pretty powerful"... and then I learned he was a Champion! "What? How? What?" (Which I think we can all agree to be three excellent questions) By the Sovereign, Xros Wars, you... I... man... or, "mon", I suppose... "Why is the strongest Digimon in this Zone acting like everyone else can kick his arse?" Is it any wonder I gave up on the logic with that one, not helped by the third part!
The Databook Writers didn't watch Xros Wars when deciding on levels for the digimon it introduced, therefore I don't consider the given levels as canon. I would like to see Karn's opinion on what level everything introduced in Xros Wars should have been. Deckergreymon should have been Level 6 Mega. Making Deckerdramon only level 4 Champion/Adult was wrong.
these are crazy. IDK why I always struggle with the leveling. It doesn't overtly make sense unless I think about it for a little while.
Totally agree with your picks again, as soon as i saw it i knew gokumon was gunna be there haha... always felt like a mega and stunted the line, i feel the same way with Asuramon which i hate as a ultimate, (dont like zambamon personally) but Asura could be great finishing location for alot of designs, even Gokumon to Asuramon works in my mind.
Other than asuramon and my other noticable ones youve said b4 like gladimon, blimp, loco/grand loco and salamon 😅
Both Dark Knightmon and Skull Knightmon were always the biggest level confusion considering that I mistaken both to be Mega and Ultimate level respectively a lot. Especially since I can 100% see Gladimon becoming Skull Knightmon and regular Knightmon becoming Dark Knightmon when both tap into darkness/corruption
Technically originally skullknightmon and mighty axemon fused to become dark knightmon
Maybe next time you can make Ultra Level Digivolutions for every Digidestined?
Uhhh maybe!
@Karn_EX if you do a all forms digimon order I will be Appreciated
@@Karn_EXalso love your videos digimon are my favorite
it feels like we are getting a fixing xros wars evolution video in the future. would like to see your take on fixing some of the evolutions/ custom art in the future
Many people may not care, but my lizard brain ass really thinks that how loosey goosey they run Digimon ranking levels and family lines is one of the reasons as to why digimon is hard to make games around and has a hard time attracting more people.
I'm not saying have straight family lines. But like... They should have stricter guide lines. At least to the point that when something evolves weird it is special and not just "oh yeah, it's digimon doing the digimon thing again"
Another great video
Thanks again!
One thing I noticed. If the good digimon is small it will feel like a rookie and below as for plot
Ex. Gatomom and Marine Angiemon
If the evil digimon is small it's up to scale to its level
Ex. Puppetmon
The skull version of Greymon is one stage above it, while the skull version of Knightmon is one stage below it. We actually have to find it funny because these levels are definitely not about making sense 😂
Lucemon id say is all above his actual digivoultuion , wish we got to see him in adventure series
I feel this way about Mephistomon and Mephistomon X Antibody, I just assumed Mephis X was Mega when making custom evo lines and was so surprised when I found out it wasn't! I know Magnamon and Darkknightmon jump levels in the TCG so I just thought that one did too...
YOU ARE THE WRONG LEVEL!
*Cries and runs away*
I love your videos, and im wondering if you'd consider doing a crossover video giving each Playable Lord from the Fire Emblem series a digimon and digivolution line that fits that character. I got one idea that works pretty well imo:
Roy from Fire Emblem 7 with Guilmon, which digivolves all the way to Gallantmon Crimson Mode.
Someone in your discord had a great monkey line the other day, Monmon->Apemon -> Gokumon -> Jijimon
The first part of that is pretty common, but the Gokumon to Jijimon is new to me. That's kinda cool, fits in with the grandparent Digimon seeming like these old Digimon that won't be that strong but are actually crazy powerful and if you saw their 'younger' forms you'd know how much danger you're actually in by underestimating them.
@@metacat3106 Pupil -> Warrior -> Master -> Teacher
Excellent video. A lot of what you said matches exactly what I always thought. GotsumonX and the Sistermon have always bothered me, but the digimon from XrosWars are really the worst that Bandai has ever given us in terms of level confusion. Deckerdramon is an interesting case. I agree with you, he would work much better as an Ultimate. When Cargodramon was released, I was disappointed that it wasn't included on a D-Brigade DIM card. It fits easily alongside Cargodramon as an amphibious transport. Only a purely land troop transport would be missing, and the D-Brigade would have a complete trio of tactical vehicles.
I was so surprised to learn Gokuwmon wasn't a Mega. A little disappointed too, because that put a whole in my idea for Makuramon being its Ultimate form.
I had this idea for so long now that I can’t hold it in my head anymore
I recently rewatched Digimon Xros Wars and in that crossover episode a had a thought in my head what would a Digicross between Shoutmon/Omegashoutmon and the other Main Digimon (omnimon/omegamon, imperialdramon, Gallantmon , Susanoomon and Shinegreymon ) look like I would love to see a Omegashoutmon x Imperialdramon FM fusion
Similar train of thought to several of the ones you mentioned here, it's amusing/baffling to me that there is no relation between Mephistomon and Phelesmon, despite them having two halves of the same namesake. They're even the same level!
How does Appmon not fit into the standard Digimon line? Like to me it looks extremely obvious how they all slot in
Mainly the God levels I think are the issue
@@Karn_EXbut aren't they just Mega's?
Going off Gatchimon it's pretty clearly
The rookie, then DoGatchimon is the champion, Globemon is Ultimate, Gaiamon is the Mega
Or does the one never localized video game have another stage the anime just didn't bother with because that's where my knowledge came from?