Debating Final Fantasy 7 Remake's Divisive Ending - Spoiled
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- FULL SPOILERS FOR EVERYTHING INVOLVING FINAL FANTASY VII AND ITS LORE TO FOLLOW:
Final Fantasy VII Remake has set the world on fire as the return to Midgar marks one of the best video game reimaginings to date. That being said, the ending of the game has proven largely divisive and has a ton to unpack. Join Joe Juba and Alex Stadnik as they take a spoilerific deep-dive into what they liked and disliked about Final Fantasy VII Remake's bombastic finish.
All the footage and information we discuss in the video is from the end of the game, so if you haven't beaten it yet, you'll want to wait until you've seen the credits roll. Finally, not only do we go into spoilers for Final Fantasy VII Remake, but we also spoil the original game's ending and larger story beats, as well. You have been warned.
If you can't get enough Final Fantasy VII Remake content, be sure to check out our video review: • Final Fantasy VII Rema...
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"Oh no, there's a giant snake in these marshes that we need to run away from."
"hang on, didn't we just travel through an interdimensional portal to battle a physical manifestation of fate itself as well as an immortal, time travelling, one winged war hero who was hurling parts of a building at us that we were destroying in midair?"
Yea cloud tried but was not strong enough
Watch Easy Allies Spoiler Mode and you'll see why that's not actually a factor and why it all makes sense.
@@VindicatedEntertainment if I need to see an explanation of the story in other media, then the writer failed miserably to convey said story.
@@sergueileonardoafonin7950
I think listening to other people talk to each other and discuss theories can help gain a deeper appreciation for a story, or at least have a different perspective. Easy Allies discussed stuff that's in the game, it's just a bit hidden. Does that change the game and/or ending for everyone? Not necessarily, but it might.
@@sergueileonardoafonin7950 I think for them to have revealed everything their planning to do for the rest of the series would ruin the fun, mystery, and wonder of it all. After all, art is meant to leave an impact on you and this certainly did.
Fans: "You can't just bring someone dead back!"
Nomura: "Haha timelines go brrrr"
It’s not bad because it’s different. It’s bad because it’s ungrounded. It removes stakes and consequences and gravity.
100%. People need to acknowledge that there is lore where multiverses totally makes sense (Evangelion, Marvel) and even elegant uses of time travel in fantasy (Game of Thrones - "hold the door" scene) but Final Fantasy VII as we know from the original (even the weaker compilation spin-offs) is totally not that....
Ff7r is ALREADY an alternate timeline from the ps1 version. If I wasn't then the whispers wouldnt have to do anything at all
Also, the arbiters of fate are there only because Sephiroth has found a way to traverse time somehow, most likely through the life stream. Somehow, Aerith is also aware of the timeline as well as Red 13. Red is a maybe.
When Sephiroth takes Cloud on his mind trip thing after the Sector 7 bombing, he is trying to prevent Aerith and Cloud meeting. So the whispers are swarming Aerith to keep her there so they can meet.
Nick Frost the whispers weren’t in ff7 og they were the temple gardens of the ancients thy were nothing to do with fate fate was not in the og story square Enix turnt then into fate ghost in advent children the og was made by square soft wen squre used to pump out classic after classic
@@cybertrongalvartron_prime6312 lol yes they weren't in the original because they weren't needed. Sephiroth going back in time is why they're there. It's a fail safe by the planet.
Really see who ? It’s kl ff16 soon I’m looking forward to
indeed my friend the name Remake refers to their remaking destiny
It's not Japanese unless some huge monster comes out at the end, and some convoluted plot emerges. Thanks AKIRA.
Crazy to think the title is “ Final Fantasy 7 Remake “ but Remake is actually the sub title. This is not an actual “remake”, this part of the story is called remake because they are re-making the future
This is official to me
yes the remake has two meanings. said them. remaking the future sounds right!
Luke Fish it’s sephiroth remaking past events. This is the future advent children sephiroth hence the black feathers. He’s changing past events hence why it’s called remake. It’s not really a misleading title people just took it the wrong way
@Carl Horn because the fans are brainless idiots wanting to be recognized as true OG hardcore FF7 fans who can't comprehend what a REMAKE means nor do they understand where the story is heading.
Oh, hey. Did you hear that they're Remaking Resident Evil 4, but it'll introduce a new story that involves Wesker travelling back in time and undoing his death at the hands of Chris
Ive heard that Nêmesis shows up to undo his death.
Bro what if Leon fights his own Destiny Virus???
Rhy5Lightning
Wouldn’t actually mind that given how half-assed and out of character his death was.
And everyone who got bit, is alive again because there are plotzombies in hoods, who magically suck the virus back and revive everyone who wasn't supposed to die in the original.
In the end we see the guy who used to get turned into Nemesis survive the procedure unchanged as he carries unconcious Jill into the sunset.
Hahahah
people continues talking about the ending whitout having played the original. The reason why this game bacame in 97 the legend is now, is the hard topict it jumpt into, the original was about more that just magic and swords, it was a very dark and sad world, they had a classist almost facist company, terrorism, prostitution, dead of loved ones... the core concept is about how people struggle in life and how lost (all avalanche members have lost something/someone) bound them together!!
You know, for about the first 95%, it was pretty much a 10/10 and was suprisingly faithful to the original while expanding on things and adding context in a way that improved on the OG. Then that ending happened and I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t worried about what it means for the future. I really hope we learn that some events are constants throughout Destiny and you can’t change them.
Two constants will be happening most likely. Aeriths and the destruction of Sephiroth. I think Aerith knows she will will and Sephiroth will learn the hard way you can't just change Destiny. I think a lot of this is connecting to Advent children, especially with the Black robed figures. They remind me a lot of Kadaj.
Robert Rolfe I really think it’s them trying to avoid Advent Children this time since those events occurred despite the heroes winning in the original. So I’m guessing we are gonna be fighting to figure out a way to permanently end Sephiroth and Jenova this time around.
worded it perfectly!
@@KRob811 you could be right as well. Who knows! I'm excited to see how they weave in Vincent and Yuffies stories to be more cohesive to the story. Vincent has some huge stuff in his lore.
@@robardian3697 they were in the original
"What are you, a purist?" - Biggs
My take
Old FF7 players wanted to relive FF7 with more fleshed out stories. Maybe a reimagining ala MCU movies where they took a fresh take on it but staying true to the SPIRIT of the source material.
New FF7 players from the new generation wanted to know why FF7 was an industry defining game, without having to play/understand the original game + numerous spin offs.
This game did none of that.
The story took a Game of Thrones approach. The world building was great with 2/3 of the game feeling perfect, then the quality dipped on the last 1/3 of the game.
It was convoluted with obvious padding and disappointing use of plot devices. Most people arent angry about the changes, they're angry of the use of fate ghosts to get there. Seemed like a lazy approach.
The good part of the game: Battle Mechanics (great implementation of action-strategy and materia management was creative), Music was stellar, Graphics was good. I actually liked the side quest as it gave way to more world building, though I agree with others that some were a bit tedious.
I bought this game day 1, but for part 2 i'm going to be on the fence and wait a bit as I don't want to invest my time on a convoluted mess trying to remember how this ties in to a game 23 years ago which it should have no business in doing.
I'm open to critic / counter arguments.
My counter argument is... I 100% agree 👍
I agree with you, I would just add that this game did not need this kind of convoluted story and the fact that hey are removing the actual scence of the original, wich was a mature game that explored heavy topics, by making it too inmature and psify!!
AC Sephiroth was back and will try to remake the OG FF7.
The planet knows this hence the Whispers correcting all the butterfly effects by Sephiroth as they need to correct the flow of destiny.
However at the end Sephiroth already taken over the Whispers as well as you can see the he summons the 3 Whispers bosses which are Kadaj, Los and Yazoo from AC.
The game fails to commit to anything. They show us Biggs and Jessie dying then take it back at the end of the game (Jessie's glove is on the dresser were Biggs is sleeping). They kill off Wedge like 3 times throughout the course of the game yet I'm still not convinced he's dead because they fail to commit to it by making the last "death" off screen. They kill off Barret and take it back like 20 seconds later. The game has no stakes, its fine if they wanted to change things however if you plan on doing so you need to commit to the changes you are making. One easy way to tell the audience you plan on going off course is instead of making up some BS about fate ghost when you make the decision to kill off Barret commit to it and keep him dead.
oo1zer0 it sooooo bull init y bring them back 🤣🤣 fate 👻s
The point is that those were determined in the original game and now they are not determined. This can also mean that characters that are not supposed to die will die, the ghosts are dead, if they were defeated before Barrett’s death it would have been permanent. In a sense the original game was the bad ending and who knows what minuscule story elements added to that (butterfly effect). Also it’s possible what we saw with Biggs etc was a split timeline as we saw with zack. Nothing is determined and leaves a lot of questions for part 2. If part 2doesn’t deal with these questions we’ll then the criticisms are valid.
The arbiters of fate are not new.. sephiroth summoned them in advent children
Your thoughts here perfectly sum up my feelings towards the ending. I absolutely love the game as a whole, but the ending left a very bad taste in my mouth and I'm petrified for the future. It was also insulting to get one winged angel, a sephiroth fight, and a nearly 1:1 recreation of the final 1 on 1 battle down to the camera angles this damn early. The whole ending just felt tonally like a completely different game, and the writing suffered so much too.
It also doesn't help that we had to fight a giant heartless
@E1V1A I like to think what the outrage would be if Disney remade the first trilogy of Star Wars. Imagine that when people saw episode 4 Remake and Luke Skywalker was introduced Darth Vader teleported behind him and said "I am your father" and they both started fighting while Death Star began destroying Tatooine... This is basically what is happening with Sephiroth here. If i recall correctly Nomura justified introducing Sephiroth this early on with "Since Sephiroth is pop culture he does not need the slow build up to his character"... i mean what in the actual fuck?! Look at my example, by that logic Darth Vader, since he is pop culture, did not need any character development and could start harassing Luke Skywalker every hour or so...
Pedro Soares that’s actually an amazing analogy.
Insulting. That's the word I used to describe the 1 v 1 scene too.
It was basically "We will give you this because we dont know if you will ever get it where you are supposed to "
@E1V1A Of course they cannot... now every time we fight him we will a Remix of One Winged Angel and a different moveset... completely ruined
Time travel ghosts are such a silly justification for changes in the plot, why not just make alterations and not try to justify it with Kingdom Hearts level of nonsense where it doesn't belong?
True. I would had liked it more if they just changed it instead of introducing these arbiters of fate, alternate timeline bullshit.
Yeah, the biggest problem is how meta they made it. If they truly wanted to change the story, I guess they can. Dont make the changing if the story a literal plot point though.
I hope they phase the timeline stuff out subtly in the next game.
They should the og fans a lie they fed us the nostalgia to get the sales then fucked us in are ass sed screw the old game this what we are doing
After this remake project is over it being good or bad maybe in some future decades from now when Nomura and all those destiny of fate clowns are gone MAYBE their will be a true remake to the original but by that time the hardcore fans will all be old or dead
The one thing you could never experience in a true Remake is a full sense of anticipation, fear, and anxiety about what's going to happen next or how things will work out in the end. I think Square wanted to find a way to fully restore that experience for the player by making them face their own expectations, in an epic battle no less, and kill them. I saw the whispers as us, the legacy players. Those three bosses at the end were our old player characters. Cloud, Tifa, and Barret from our original playthroughs 20 years ago, fighting to preserve their own timeline... and I killed them knowing the risk involved in defying fate. Things could go far better, far worse, or pretty much the same this time around. I have no idea what to expect and I respect and appreciate that. Just my take.
That's cool and all, but I still FUCKING HATE that multiverse shit. Let Zack stay dead.
Then why don't they make game base on multichoice if you do absolute nothing you get og end if you unlock secret dialog or something choice to get info earlier you can change event, the character in game fighting fate and to multiverse just lazy writing and cash grap don't forget what happened to ff13
@@dhanygunawan277 The characters destroying fate leads to the possibility of multiple endings. That's why it's actually good. If they do this right you can end the game in a similar way to the original, or make the decisions that change it. I don't get why people are so stupidly hating this fact. You're now free to decide your fate in the game.
@@RTuga02 yes that why if character in game know they change it because literely fight fate it is bad writing, now even if you follow naratif in game they don't even have motif to fight fate in first place just earish and the other just follow with no reason just because sapherote, it comfusing new player and slap in face for old fans you must to admit it just lazy writing. they can turn it to be epic if they make it with multichoice that you action is change the event it make sanse for new or old player, for example what if you don't save tifa to get info earith Will not be capture because is go home and you be fighting with barret to defense pillar earlier and can save another member of avalance but tifa maybe trap and instead resque earith we resque tifa. The possibility is endless and the character in game don't have to know only us playing it
@@dhanygunawan277 what? Man, what doesn't make sense to me is both your writing and thought process...
For the Stamp thing, Tifa tells Cloud that his design was not originally the way they see it now and that Shinra changed it. This happens when they are in the train tracks leading to sector 5 reactor
Thank god, hopefully that means that's just the past and not a alt-timeline. Maybe Zack never died in this story and is in hiding for whatever reason after he helped Cloud to Midgar.
Man do you recall which chapter it is?
After further investigating this. Seems that the timeline thing is still a thing. Tifa is referring to Shinra making him a mascot. The view of stamp we get from Zack scene is a different breed entirely.
@@seank7227 Well stop really quick, the important thing of note is that "Shinra making him a mascot" v. whatever stamp originally was a mascot of...
@@keinchi that's true. Hmmm
I finished the game a few days ago. I know the plot of the original pretty well, having played the game since I was a kid. Here's my interpretation of the ending.
SPOILER.
I don't think there's going to be a different timeline, or a multiverse, or even a totally different plot from now on. Even if the gang killed the Whispers, that hasn't changed the fact that they're going to chase Sephiroth anyway. It hasn't changed that Shinra is going after the idea of the promise land either. What has changed, is that they have meaningless glimps of some future they want to avoid, but no idea how to prevent it anyway. Sephiroth will still be after the Black Materia and Cloud is obviously still his puppet. I think part 2 will be almost the same as the original, except maybe Aerith secretly knowing about her death, but eventually she will accept her sacrifice as the only way to stop Meteor from falling. About the Zack flashback: for new players it's an introduction to a character that will be introduced in the future, but for old players it started as a bait: it looked like Zack survived his death, but when the game is ending and Zack crosses his path with Aerith and Cloud, rain is finally falling and we are shown Zack walking near Midgar.
Too bad he's going into the spot where he dies in the original game, in which he's carrying Cloud and they're ambushed by the last 3 Shinra troops. In the last part of the flashback it's even clearly shown the cliff where he dies. I think that was just the game telling us that even if there's no Destiny or fate, some things are inevitable. That is why only Aerith can "feel" that moment, as she is the next character to depart.
As for that weird Sephiroth moment at the Edge of creation, I think that will be explained in the very last part of the remake, after Safer Sephiroth is killed and when Cloud fights with shirtless Sephiroth in his mind. Maybe only then will truly be revealed what Sephiroth knew about his fate and why he wanted the gang to kill the Whispers.
As for why they choosed to make things this mysterious and complicated: perhaps they wanted to thrill a bit original fans and create some turmoil. I think they are very well awhare that toying too hard with a sacred beast like FF7 is risky and not worthy.
Sorry for my bad english, it's not my native language and thanks for reading this far.
I hope you’re right, but I seriously doubt it
I also thought about that. Even in the original Aeris always gave me the impression that she knew that she was going to die and that her death it's crucial for stopping Sephiroth. Bro, I love your theory. It clearly comes from someone who loves the original. But we are talking about Nomura here, They wouldn´t risk that much the fate of the project if they are not planning something big. I think he wants us as shocked as the first Time we saw Aeris Die. I think they are killing Tifa and making big changes in the storyline.
I hope that you are right and I´m wrong.
Cheers.
@@jiraiya0698 KH is directed by Nomura, hence he can do whatever he wants with it, but that's not the case for FFVII. As I said, I think they know they're gonna have some hard backslash if they change the plot too much. Final Fantasy VII became popular because of the moments its made of: like the Gold Saucer, the Forgotten City events, Junon's weapon raid, the story of Midgar's Sister Ray, I can go on forever. Changing those moments, with a new plot about fate, timelines and stuff, wouldn't drive the same emotions of the original game, and I don't think they're gonna risk that much.
Even from an economic point of view it's way too risky: starting a very ambitious project like a multi-parts remake of FFVII requires alot of money and time, and they need to earn alot from it. Giving people something that different from what they were promised, may result in a huge economic loss: they're not gonna risk another failure like the Fabula Nova Crystallis I think.
Surely I might be wrong, and maybe the next game will start with Zack meeting Aerith in the church while some ghostly shaped plot device tries to interrupt them talking about darkness-light-friendship-hearts-hearts of the world and Goofy. In that case, me and many other won't probably buy it, I already abandoned KH saga time ago.
@@f.lombax5900 I agree with you but I think they are no realizing it. But if they decided to do what they did in the LAST hour of the game it´s because something very Nomura is about to happen. I think he wants to surprise us as much as we did the first time we saw Aeris Die. And of course, that compromises all those cool moments you were talking about. I am completely sure that they think we like this and that we found it groundbreaking.
EDIT:
Just look at this shit, it burns my eyes. imgur.com/a/mAY88hX
Jiraiya 069 Do you have any reason to believe that Tifa will be killed instead of Aerith? or are you just saying Tifa will die because she’s the other female lead?
As someone who didn’t play original FF7, it almost felt like how half life 2 felt hanging us dry about GMan as FF7 remake does with sephiroth. And that whispers bs, kinda similar to the half life 2 vortigaunt cop out at the end
Seph was not in this game
@Michael Lochlann I watched Angryjoe play FFVIIR (he never played the original), at a certain point he was like: "Oh stop it with the stupid ghost shit already", when the Whispers interfered with a intense cutscene.
@@ShineSpark88 thats what not playing the original gets you, becasue the ghost were making sure everything that was done in the OG was done in the remake. seph stoppibg you before meeting aerith wasnt suppose to happen, hence the ghost stopping her from leaving from in front of theatre. i honestly dont mind the ghost as much as people are complainig about it, because after all the game wouldve gotten stale given how most of us played and beat the OG at least more than once. so not knowing whats next helped the game out
After YEARS, you rekindle a relationship with someone you truly loved. You're cautious going in, but it turns out that they're more amazing than ever before. Time passes. You profess your love once again. As you embrace, they randomly stab you in the back.
THIS is the FF7 Remake.
Nomura : It`s just a prank bro, goteem ahahahah fuck you
This is such a perfect analogy. lol
@@greenboots_4661 This was meant mostly to be funny, although... it IS true, imo.
Negative
That's been my experience with FF15, KH3, and I really almost believed it wouldn't have happened in this one :(
The ending was really frustrating for me. I have played every Final Fantasy since Final Fantasy 7... so I’ve been heavily invested in the story for quite sometime. Everything in this game was absolutely perfect up until the end of the bridge. The second they walked through that portal, I knew it. They fucked it up. This could have EASILY been Final Fantasy 7: Ultima Edition in terms of story. They could have made smaller changes and even a few major ones that change the plot some and still not have to introduce a multi-timeline plot. It’s such a fucking cop out. I agree with what was stated in the podcast... the next game is totally not going to be Disk 2 of FF7. Then the situation with Zack... with Zack being alive, Cloud can’t become Cloud. There is literally no point to Cloud's multiple personalities and ultimately the scene in Disk 3 where Tifa pushes him into the Life Stream to discover his true self. Not just that... but I also feel like we are the bad guys now, after this ending. I feel like us breaking the timeline is something Sephiroth would do... not us. Don’t even get me started about the fact that it feels like there are no impactful consequences now because of the time ghosts. Fucking shame man.
Jessie's gloves are on the table next to Biggs at the end.
yeah i thought the same. her dying this time round was more upsetting than the original with the little fist bump. her and biggs surviving is dumb. the only thing i can think of at this stage is in the next games. avalanche (not just barrets cell) will be more active throughout (potentially side quests and more depth to the came - before crisis sort of intergrated in) and you may see biggs/jesse die some other heroic way?
Are you sure that's her gloves?
Why are people thinking Jessie survived just based on her glove being on the table? I took it as people giving Biggs a memento of his fallen friend.
I'd honestly be surprised if Jessie or Wedge are dead. Really takes the gut punch out of the plate falling too. FF7 Remake: It's like FF7 but no one really ever dies!
@@Btotts I have a bad feeling about this... we could be entering Last Jedi Territory here
I'm just going to copy/paste my response to a comment that said something along the lines of "go play the original if you want a one-to-one":
I am not talking about scene for scene. I did say they delivered for 90% of the game didn't I? That includes the Jessie Job, Roche and the underground lab, heck, even Wedge surviving was pretty cool (we never see him die in the original anyway). Great additions, all of them, and we also got more npcs and the world in general is more fleshed out.
Stories, however, have core pieces that define them. Wouldn't it be nice if Romeo and Juliet lived happily ever after? What about Frankenstein's monster and the doctor just sitting down and having a nice talk to learn to live with each other? Sure, those might be nice things to think about but if you take those conflicts and tragedies away from those stories then they cease to be what they are.
In the case of Final Fantasy VII, some of the core pieces are: Cloud's identity crisis and memory, Zack's death (which obviously links with the previous piece), Aerith's sacrifice to summon Holy and stop Meteor. There are other core pieces but i think you get where I'm going. If you take any of those pieces away then you are no longer retelling the story; You are effectively telling a different one. So yeah, telling us this game is a remake was very dishonest when you're introducing "timelines" and you pretty much fight against a physical manifestation of the original characters (the tifa, cloud and barret whispers); The concept of whispers itself is pretty much a representation of the fanbase that asked them for years to make this game.
For now, the timeline where Zack lives seems to be distinctly separate from the game's timeline but it seems it's only a matter of time for them to make actual radical changes to the main timeline. Now, if they had come out and said they were going to make a ff7 alternate timeline game, cool, I'd probably still have bought it (I probably wouldn't have dropped 330 dollars though). They did not do that though, they announced a remake, and that's not what we got.
I understand your thoughts and I might just be debating semantics but isn't this exactly a remake?
Part of the definition of remake is to make differently.
@@kidwright3362 I've been seeing this kind of argument a lot and I really don't get it. First, remake just means "to make again" that's it. Second, I think we all know what the fanbase has been begging Square for 15+ years: A retelling of one of the most beloved stories in videogame history that was held back by the technology of the time. Heck, 2 years after ff7 came out, ff8 already looked waaaay better in comparison.
I hope my previous comment proves that I'm not really that afraid of changes and additions: Leslie Kyle, secret Shinra lab, Hojo still being a creep but without trying some weird interspecies experiment (it was pretty ridiculous). There's plenty more examples of great new stuff and interpretations of events. But, as I said before, the moment you start messing with the core elements of a story, you are not retelling it, you are writing a new one. The Resident Evil people along with other remakes managed to keep their lore intact beside having very different games. Why can't Square do the same? It's not that hard.
Lastly, I think what gets a lot of people angry is what can only be interpreted as meta-commentary on the original fans: It seriously feels like a personal attack. Besides that, now that Nomura is in charge of the proyect, this seems more like his personal quest to one-up Sakaguchi, who isn't there anymore. This is really only talking about how badly this affects the integrity of the plot. I haven't even gotten into how bad and out of place the scenes actually are.
I Agree 100%
Marco Garzón 100% on everything you said also, Sakaguchi was the reason why the original final fantasy 7 was so great, Jesus man they had the whole blueprint to this amazing game
@@kidwright3362 Exactly. For example remakes in films take more liberties than this and deviate a whole lot from the source material .
People seem to misinterpret the definition here while SE was already hinting of retelling the same story in a different way
Whispers in trailers ,producer outright saying they also want to tell something new out of it so as old fans would be surprised ,part 1 not being included in the title etc.
As long fan of FFVII since ‘97 I’m so happy with what they have done with the Remake. Not knowing what’s coming next is super exciting. My love of FFVII comes from the Characters, World and the Music. The fact that we are going to get some new story with the characters I love so much is incredible to me.
@Cameron Pangborn Geez, I hope you're not a star wars fan
Yes is amazing except ending why they must fight fate and multiverse ia lazy writing, why don't make it to be multichoice game if you do nothing get og ending for example all squat dead in sector 7 in og but if you do something you can safe it like get item or exstra character to safe them it be more enjoyable that way
@Cameron Pangborn how? That's not true at all. Barret still has his arc intact, Cloud does. Every character still has to go through their personal hardships. This changes nothing.
@@CanadianYeti69 Barret literally died and came back to life. If he it never gets mentioned again in future storyline, It will be sign that the whispers of fate thing is just lazy writing.
@@toribiogubert7729 it's not lazy writing, and barret "dying" is literally just a story telling tool for the future.
Its telling you that the Arbiters had the power to keep people alive as long as they were alive in the original timeline. Now that they're gone, it means everything is off the table. Red could die, Aerith could still die, anyone is at risk now.
So as I said, Barret "dying" does nothing to ruin his story.
Everything bald guy is saying is what I've been thinking since I beat it. It doesn't feel like a self-contained story anymore, it's now nesting all of that into a meta-narrative that appears to be engaging directly with a real-life commentary on the expectations of fans of the original game. Any foundation of plot that was established before is suddenly swept from under all the characters, their goals, and the stakes involved, because it's all secondary to whatever message it is the devs are trying to express. And even though the Whispers are cryptically introduced early on, they still manage to make all this stuff at the end feel rushed and shoehorned in, which results in the last hour of the game feeling completely divorced from everything we experienced playing before. FF7 was wacky enough as it is, at least it somewhat tried to follow its own rules; they've totally jumped the shark now.
In a broader sense, I think I'm generally getting pretty jaded with large companies cashing in on the nostalgia of decades-old fanbases, although that's another discussion.
Alright, I've been thinking. I was thinking about this before, and then I saw someone on Reddit mention it too, but things maybe make a bit more sense if you assume none of the Compilation stuff is canon (apparently there's a quote of Nomura saying this, but I'm not sure how true it is).
At the end of the OG FF7, the fate of humanity is left pretty ambiguous, and many assumed that maybe Holy wipes out humanity (or brings them all into the Lifestream, however you wanna see it), while stopping and healing from Meteor thanks to Aerith's intervention and the party being able to stop Sephiroth. But then Advent Children retcons the cutscene that's supposed to take place all those years into the future with Red XIII and his cubs roaring at the overgrown Midgar, so that it's happening 3 years later rather than 500 or whatever.
So, with the Whispers being subject to the will of the planet, they have an agenda to make sure things unfold like they did in FF7, because it's the nuclear option that's going to make sure humans leave the planet the fuck alone (by, you know, dying). This would be a sort of neutral ending where neither humanity nor Sephiroth wins, but at least the planet does. OG FF7 Sephiroth, however, perhaps through tapping into the same knowledge that Aerith has as a Cetra by sucking up Lifestream juices from his cocoon in the northern crater, has realized there are multiple realities (somehow) and that in the one he lives in he fails to become a god, so he figures out how to manipulate Reunion robed dudes to do his bidding in other realities, as well as how to open up portals through spacetime, to become a god there. Basically he pulled the Rick and Morty "fuck it, we fucked up, we're going to another reality" trick.
The Whispers of the Remake reality sense this freak anomaly in their ecosystem and act out way more than usual, to the point of becoming visible to other people; Gaia is sorta freaking out cause it didn't anticipate Sephiroth being able to do this. Jenova is, after all, not of this earth. Aerith senses this, too, and even tells Sephiroth that everything about him is wrong (alien to both the planet and to this reality).
So... you could think about things this way. The planet has a vested interest in staying healthy and eliminating threats to its mako/Lifestream resources, whatever it takes. Sephiroth has a vested interest in becoming a god, and the Arbiters and Harbingers of Fate will not allow him to do this. Avalanche have a vested interest in not just protecting the planet, but also protecting humanity; they want to have it both ways, if they can help it, because of their ties to their people. So Sephiroth's and Avalanche's interests meet at subduing the planet's "fate" mechanism.
Now they're both thrown into an uncertain future where Avalanche has a chance to prevent Aerith from dying, to prevent Meteor from being summoned, and to prevent humanity from expiring... and Sephiroth has a new chance to hatch a new plan to gorge on the planet's resources and become a god. So Sephiroth is playing a game of interdimensional chess where he's letting Avalanche take his Queen, so that he can position himself to take their King.
So basically, it's possible that Nomura and his devs were sitting around going "Look, so if we're not taking Advent Children as canon, then we're basically retelling a story with a bad ending. We know how this is going to end. Don't you wanna change that this time?" And how Aerith acts and feels throughout Remake reflects that. They're giving the players, and themselves, a chance at a happy ending.
............. buT tHaT's JusT a ThEoRY
JuanDoesNotSimply ...that makes total sense...for another spin-off. But this was finally their chance to just faithfully remake the original. Everyone would have LOVED that. what the hell is wrong with an ambiguous ending where the player gets to come up with their own interpretation? The original ending was poetic and beautiful. This “screw fate, we’re gonna get a happy ending no matter what” is just childish
@@NEOL1NK see, this is the issue.
It means this remake is not actually a remake in more general sense as in the spirit of Resident Evil 2 Remake. This is actually a stealth sequel or spin-off that marketed itself heavily as a true remake. Square exploited the broader meaning of "remake" to "bait" the buyer thinking it was a normal remake and then "switch" the actual end product to become actually what it is, a stealth sequel.
Some may think that this is the most brilliant use of subverting expectation in the history of video game ever. But to others, including me, this is Square being disingenuous for the sake of their artistic vision. Some might even say that Square manipulated the lingering nostalgia people had with FFVII as one of their tactics to achieve what they call 'surpassing' the original story.
This is why this "remake" left us with a very bitter taste, it feels like we're tricked out of our money and emotion because Nomura and co wanted to become something larger when all we just wanted is a simple remake.
@@NEOL1NK
Dirge of Cerberus: Am I a joke to you?
Danikar yes
Why change a plot? you don't need to change a plot for a game remake to be successful. Look at old movies that are remade. Alot of old movies are redone every 20 or 30 years like war movies about Pearl Harbor or Batman. They don't change the plots drastically and they still do well. They might do a little more character building, go into a little more depth on certain things, but the main thing is they are updated to look better graphically with better acting and better technology. I never understood the whole reboot. Reboots are hard to pull off. Usually they are done if the original was bad, not if the original was good. If you want to do a new story just do a new game with new characters. Stop going back and rebooting stuff that doesn't need to be rebooted. Yes most new fans won't care and it's the old fans that are upset. Why upset anyone? The original game story was enjoyed by everyone 20 years ago. the original game will be enjoyed my new fans as well. By changing the story you are just upsetting like half your fan base unnecessarily. As for doing fan service for the fans who want characters to stay alive, if you appease them, then they will get what they want and afterwards will lose interest in the franchise. Like kids who keep begging their parents to get them a puppy. Then they get a puppy, and after that initial excitement is gone, they don't show as much interest in the puppy. People always obsess over something they don't have. Once they get it, they forget about it and move on to start obsessing about something else.
If they deviate too much from the original story, they will lose alot of the original fans. Which might not be a big deal to them because they know they will get alot of new fans. But, why lose any fans? Keep the original story, keep the old fans while getting new fans.
The original story is brilliant and the extra bits do steal the spotlight a bit too much. Would be nice if they could have added extra depth to the original without taking away from the original story.
I think the ONLY mistake that Square made was putting the word "Remake" in the title. Imagine if they hadn't, and what kind of expectations might have been put aside. Thinking of Doom 2016 as a great example, I really like the fact that they made a game that both satisfies my nostalgia, while also creating a fresh, new, and exciting story for these beloved characters to go through! I love the original story so much, and I think they did it so much justice, but I'm just as excited to see what brand new story can come from this, almost like I would for a direct sequel. I can understand the expectations that surrounds anything that is titled a "Remake" and I wish they hadn't called it that, but I still really trust that I'm going to love the new story anyways. I just have to not think of it as a re-write or reboot that is throwing away the original story, but more of a "what if?" reality that tells a different story, a new story! So ya, guess I'm optimistic! Though, I'm one of the psychos that has really enjoyed the Kingdom Hearts story too, so maybe I'm just a complete nut, Hahaha! 😅
There is nothing wrong with liking KH. I for instance do, as long as you take it for what it is. A constant jump through worlds, stories and characters. If you accept the premise of the game, you are then hook for the ride. These are video games, is just fantasy!
By killing Barret then the ghosts bring him back, it does prove few things. Sephiroth ain't come from this timeline for sure and the ghosts are conflicted with him.
It also was a warning to me... That no one is necessarily safe. Deaths might not be the same. Maybe we do save people... But maybe we lose others.
@Cameron Pangborn more like a reboot I would say.
@Cameron Pangborn if that was the plan they lost the best opirtunity. Let the game go on if you were defeated by the Fate Boss.
It was never confirmed that he had dies.
@Cameron Pangborn Kitase and Nomura are both on record saying that this game is not a sequel nor a spin off.
I've been a fan of the original ever since I was 8 years old, being 29 now I'm extremely excited to see what comes next. I had a full nostalgia trip the entire time I played FF7R: The music, the atmosphere, the characters and interactions were all 10/10, so while I was initially confused about the ending and fighting my feelings about it, I really thought it was a great idea and can't wait to see what happens next.
Totally with you there. I love it back on 98 when I was 21 years old and seen it back now in my forties is just lovely. I really like the ending.
I totally agree - I think the ending was genius. Opens part 2 up to so much speculation and theory.
As much as I loved the original, I would have felt ripped off if it was all basically a the same story. I wanted change, I wanted to be shocked, surprised etc. I loved the changed and all the talk and discussions and potential future is awesome
You can add without conflicting with existing story or retconning. You don't have to change the entire plot to expand on the experience.
I feel ripped off with it being changed so drastically.
My issue is that their parts of the game could have been deeper and on the characters' dialogues as deep as the Original. I do like it a lot but, it did give that bitter taste to it at the end.
The end of the original FF7 where you fight Sephiroth isn't in reality, it's inside Cloud's head. It's Cloud finishing off the remaining influence Sephiroth has on him (which is why Cloud can't lose there). I'm thinking the developers are going to give more options and that the path you follow doesn't have to match the original, but that it still could happen. We're still on Gaia, leaving Midgar , and I'm certain some places will still be there.
I posted this on jimquisition, but I'd like to add it to the discussion here:
"I think most of the people who happen to dislike the changes are not the purists, who wanted their FF7 remake to be the exact same thing, but with polished graphics. Most of us from what I understood dislike the inconsistency of the new introduced story elements cough Nomuras timeghosts cough with the rest of the plot. The latest chapter is so out of touch with the rest of the game, so devoid of real stakes, so foreign in concept, that it is bewildering to us and the characters. It's aggravating how much they could get right in terms of fleshing out the city of Midgar and its inhabitants, only to prematurly squander the potential. It's common nowadays for the media to point the middlefinger towards the OG fans and play the politics card. But they are missing the mark. I'm pretty sure most OG fans loved the work put in the remake and wouldn't mind a deviation as long as the basic story stays intact and that is exactly what has been tempered with.
I would even go as far as to compare FF7 to an opera production. It's a beloved classic product of art my generation cherished as much as the previous did for Bizets "Carmen" and Verdis "Aida". Aerith is such a tragic and beloved character like Mimi in "La Bohème".
When you go to the opera, you know that spoiler Mimi is going to die in the end of the piece. You know it's going to be tragic. You are spoiled in advance that she's going to die, but you don't care. Because you go there to see a new execution of the piece. New direction, new singers playing the role and their voices, new details for staging and lightning.
This is why people are upset, when they dislike the changes being made to the story. Square finally made a classic and people want to see it for what it is. And many myself included think that it isn't and shouldn't be Kingdom Hearts."
The game can still be good but your analogy is a great point for those who always say "if you want the original thing play the original game". It's much more than that. That said, it's like a cover of a song, sometimes it can keep the essence of it while reimagining the whole thing and making it shine in places it didn't before...for example, johnny cash singing "hurt"...
Amen to that.
yeah... sometimes I think a lot of fans only wanted a remastered FF VII and not a remake... I was very satisfied with the game and curious of what is to come
@@miuthaiger3974 They got that, it came out in 2015, people were still clamoring for the remake despite that. This comment is also ignorant to the point that OP was making.
I agree. I embrace change and loved 90% of this game... But SE just lead us up the garden path and completely destroyed what the game was establishing: A faithful retelling. But Kingdom hearty, convoluted nonsense? That was completely unnecessary and unrelated to the ENTIRE game!? The last 2 chapters killed everything great about this game.
they just kingdom hearts'd one of our favorite games... even with the colossal being at the end looking like the giant heartless
Except it felt more intimidating
Why does nobody realize that the Whisper Harbinger is a weapon of the planet?
They actually do go under the sector 5 plate in the orginal its very brief and you can talk to Biggs,wedge and jessie there
I replayed the Midgar section of the original a few days ago and that bit blew my mind. 20 years and I never realised that's what that screen was. You can see the slums below and everything!
I found that out myself a few years ago also. I stared at the background for awhile before I figured out what it was and was like oh that's sector 5 lol
He said Sector 4 in the video.
@@makesomething4093 I know he said 4, but he made a mistake, cause they go under the sector 5 plate too get too the sector 5 reactor
mrimstilldead But isn’t 4 a place we do indeed go in this and not the original?
One part for me, which makes the original FF VII so unforgettable and so damn good was the tragic lost of Friends, like the members of Avalanche and the tragic death of Arith. When you figured out that cloud is nothing more than a puppet for Sephiroth and cloud complete memories where nothing more than a lie... the girl cloud falls in love with dies and later you find out that Zack was Arith first love. Zack the one who dies saving Clouds life... this story gets me, a story without any creepy flying Dementors and alternative timeline shit. The remake was so damn good!!! 12 from 10 points... until the last 1 1/2 hours... where everything gets to confusing. I would have preferred it, when the game ends with an escape out of midgar... I didn’t need a fight against Sephiroth and “Destiny” and definitely no alternative timeline .... this ending makes me sad... I really hope they just did this ending to make people wich are very familiar with story start to thinking “ok, I don’t know what happens next...” and than the story just goes on the way it should be. (Sorry for my English, I’m from Germany)
Apparently gamers today are not that interested in properly built stories. It's not a case that Marvel movies have such a wide audience.
Anthony Fesce ok, that could be true... sad but true :-/ it seems that today games need to be bigger, more action and much more spectacular... #I’mtooldforthis
@@Micca_ The risk is that this new generation will never play FF7 because it looks too old. And that is sad because if you haven't good games as reference anything is "okay". Even the dude in the video is thinking of not playing it even if it is such a one of the milestones of the concept of "videogame".
Anthony Fesce I’ve often the feeling, that with the amazing increase of the graphics, the story of the games irrelevant. Ok, lets go back to the game 😄 ! Until the last Chapter FF VII REMAKE was amazing! We will how the next part will go on.
@@Micca_ Let's say it was good but at the same time, apart from the ending that seemed "Amateur hour", they have made a mess also with the character of Sephiroth and the concept of death. I know it would have been annoying to have a whole game without him ending with a bunch of guys just getting out of a Metropolis into the countryside. But that is what it was and it worked as a story. It seems they're all desperate to do more and more like if adding more frosting could make the cake better. What they did to Sephiroth showing him up so early is a very bad sign from a storytelling point of view because it demonstrates that no-one there knows how to do it anymore: it's exactly like if in Jaws you would have seen the shark in the first part of the movie. It would have taken away the gravitas, the thrill and it would have killed the climax. And on top of that, in a story in which loss and grief are core concepts, you CAN'T REVIVE characters!
So this Remake is how Cloud got into Kingdom hearts.
Cloud and Sephiroth vs. Goofy and Mickey Mouse.
😂
Che Turo shit at one point i thought goofy and Donald were going to come out to help cloud fight the giant whisperer
Lmao, Nomura is trying to make ff7 canon fit Kingdom hearts canon.
Be afraid!
musicwelikemang at this point I would not be surprised, why are they obsessed with this destiny defying fate meta god it’s so lame man
@@OtenP_ yeah like the original plot wasn't enough. Saving the planet from a super soldier created by the cell of an alien.
I am mad about the removal of any wieght from the story and that it feels like they lied about it being a remake.
Decisions like this is why I kinda don’t want them to ever remake FFVI. They’d ruin it with unnecessary convoluted nonsense. #IfItAintBrokeDontFixIt
Scruff Zilla EXACTLY, dude they had one fucking job, they had the blueprint for it and they fuck it up this bad!!!! If they wanted to make a new story just do it on final fantasy 16 like man what the fuckkkkk
Which is a shame cause a 6 remake would be amazing to see. I don't understand what is so hard to understand about updated graphics, voice acting, and a couple extra side quests and super bosses. That's all you had to do.... They had one job, one fucking job....
Gongos951 lol right? It’s so damn frustrating.
Gongos951 what’s wrong with changing it? There are lots of fans who are totally down with something new.
@@yrureadingthisname then make a new game from scratch
Replaying 7 on Switch is actually pretty reasonable with it's speed up functions. I recommend everyone who will be playing remake get into it.
I couldn't agree more with this analysis. It's not that they're doing something different, it's the poor execution and deceptive marketing
Mark Jackson exactly they didn’t have to end it like this with fate and destiny have they not learned from all those shitty games and now they bring it to their most legendary franchise
Deceptive marketing? How exactly? The whispers being in the trails is a clear tip off something was changed.
OtenP I hate to break it to you pal, but fate and destiny has been a theme in Final Fantasy across the franchise including the game the remake is based on.
@@thelinedrive You dont know what you're talking about.
Although defying fate was always a theme. Fate wasnt defined by canon up until now.
Kevin Vu all I heard from you is I’m right but muh storah!
Man. This is a lot to digest. I recognized some of the developer “commentary” interwoven into story beats, but I didn’t pick up on how much they actually implied. Maybe there were things they just couldn’t or didn’t want to recreate. The idea that this entire project could go off the rails, and recognizable bits and pieces pop up as fan service... eeehhh. It’ll be interesting to see.
I could of did without the first final bosses that was out of place like hell, but the sephiroth was badass Imo and the ending made me made mad because by these characters surviving it cheapens their deaths and the main characters experience and reasons why they do what they do and that worries me I don't mind changes but this going overboard I swear want you to change the events in the game then let you have the option to change the events in the game there's better ways of doing that and what was the point of Roch of introducing this character and he's just one and done he could have been the final boss. I dont mind changes but this jumps the shark Imo.
I'd have been okay with the sephiroth fight if it was way more grounded and obviously a clone. Basically .. I didnt expect this fight until advent children dlc of the final game:/
Game story isnt even finished and people keep talking its a massive disappointment.. lol what?
@@dwaynetiongson3504 🤔 It's almost like people have opinions and have the mental capacity to ponder ideas presented to them. Wow 🤨.
@@dwaynetiongson3504 This game is finished though, so it's fair to judge it and speculate on the sequels since they'll be following that ending.
Amen to that my friend. I really hope you are right. Your post gave me courage
I really think people are missing a lot of what actually happened in the game. Like how Sephiroth is literally trying to fuck with the timeline. I think it's so cool. It's up his alley, and up Jenova's alley, being a lovecraftian horror.
The thing is, multiple timelines were never a thing in FFVII. It was a lot more down to earth-type of story, dealing with subject matters like personal loss, the circle of life and death, as well as progress and nature. It was FFVIII that was all about timelines and the villain trying to alter their fate. This timeline-stuff wouldn't even feel that out of place if this was a FFVIII remake, but here it just sticks out.
@@ZealSeraph I'm sorry, but there was nothing down to earth about Ff7 story 😂 This ending was great on many levels, and people are missing the point because they can't get over their nostalgia. The whispers are pretty much us that played the original. We try to keep it all in line instead of trying something new. We know Aerith dies, that Cloud is not what he seems, etc. We know the story, but these character's fought that timeline and won, and now a new path is ahead.
Also, everyone seems to be getting the word "remake" mixed with "remastered ". They told us at the start that the game was going to be different. I won't let one person speak for all of us on this because he had feelings about it...
@@Wingedspace22 Sakaguchi wanted FFVII story reflect things he went through when he lost his mother. Dealing with death, thinking what lies beyond, the whole lifestream and returning to the planet, all are very human elements. So yes, it is a lot more down to earth than multiple timelines, or fighting a preordained destiny.
@@ZealSeraph nope. That's only 1 part of the story
@@Wingedspace22 I never said it's all there is to it. It is a big part of it though, even if it's just one aspect of the story.
I I really want an actual remake of ff7 so people who never played the original or the spin offs can experience it like we did when it came out
And nobody at square will ever work on something like that because it creatively does nothing for any of them.
It’s like saying you wanted the Vince Vaughn Psycho or the CGI Lion King. They are carbon copies that are creatively bankrupt that bring nothing to the retelling.
@@thelinedrive A 1:1 Remake would bring something to the table for the player (aka the consumers). The old game is so restricted by the old technology so it wouldn't be a copy-paste kinda deal. This Remake did a really good job with this when the story was being told like it was in the original. The mess only starts when they alter the plot and step away from the known recipe that worked years ago.
Rubberhand And no creative would touch that. Being something consumers want means nothing if the people making are not creatively invested in the project.
@@thelinedrive Well.. "no creative would touch that" doesn't work. MAYBE it is because we are talking about SE here, but then again maybe not.
The consumers and the devs of Capcom themselves were really happy about RE2 Remake. Everybody loved it and it was really close to being 1:1 remake with modern tech. So we are just two opposite opinions in here, because neither of us really know what's the motivation behind this. (It's the money, but why do it like this, that we do not really know)
Rubberhand You didn’t seriously compare remaking Resident Evil games to remaking FFVII? You must not have played the originals in either case because unlike FFVII the presentations of the PS1 RE games and mechanics make them an unplayable mess by today’s standards. FFVII’s presentation and mechanics still work.
Last I checked RE didn’t use live action cutscenes with bad voice acting and actors. That’s a big difference between the two and the corporate structure and culture of Capcom is not the same as Square.
My question is, why? Why even add those Whispers trying to correct the story? Why not just tell the story like it was? Why does it have to turn into final destination all of a sudden?
It just didn't feel necessary at all. The original story was totally fine the way it was.
i agree. just add more side quest etc throughout the game. random places like kalm could have more added it. like has midgar affected them etc. NPC how have left midgar blah blah. the 2nd game has the potential to be amazing - but yeah worried what further changes will be made.
Yeah they added all this crap when the fans wanted a remake of a nearly perfectly told story. We didn’t want to kill fucking rats and do bullshit side quests. What a waste of potential 😢😢😢. O well, I liked the battle system
Stop worrying about spoilers. Spoil the entire thing in your review. Anyone who says they care about spoilers is lying and the only spoiler that ever mattered was "Luke I am your father".
it's funny how the Squaresoft wasn't as soft as Square Enix. the original game was more PG-13 with blood and stuff. This remake was made more kid friendly, they took out the blood trail leading to the president
Because then the game would be rated M and that just no bueno when it comes to sales sorry bud that's just the way it is
@@JMartini810 I know how marketing works, I just think it's a sign of the times how square has become a different company. A company like Disney trying to create products for the whole family in order to sell more. I doubt Squaresoft was as concerned about age group sales back in 1997
Its just a different time brother unfortunately .. The worlds gone soft
@@JMartini810 yeah I kind of liked the 90s perception of get a Nintendo console for kid friendly games for the most part and Sony and Sega were aiming for the more mature market. I grew up a Nintendo kid but when the PS2 came out Sony won me over and since it was backwards compatible I went back and experienced all those PS1 Classics I missed out on
Terry Lee Of course Square Soft was concerned with sales back in the 90s but depicting a trail of blood in a game with Chibi characters is not the same as showing it with the hyper realistic graphics of the Remake. It doesn’t make sense to throw that scene into the game and get an M rating when Cloud’s been bloodlessly slashing at people for 30+ hours before that point
I enjoyed it, and I look forward to what they will do with it from here.
The game went full Nomura at the end. That hack just couldnt help himself.
Coulda been Kitase, he fucks with timeline shit too.
@Cameron Pangborn toriyama is prob in on it too lol. I dunno about the Gooch, he was in on 8 and that was all about fate and time, he might've been on board with this. He also wrote Spirits Within, so his record aint spotless either.
We just have to live with the fact that Square is hit and miss, and hope that this series ends up being a big hit.
Funny you say that, considering he didn't write for the remake. He only directed it.
You're absolutely correct
@@TehPiemaygor Im sure as the director of the project he had a hand in the story. Especially since its a big departure from the original. The writer would not do that on his own without the approval of the person running the project.
For a lot of other people, this is gonna be their first time experiencing FF VII's story. That's the main reason I'm ticked that they seem to be changing the story in the future. My friends who aren't into old JRPG style turn based games are given the opportunity to experience one of the best stories in video game history, and because the creatives over at Square want to put their signatures on this classic, my friends won't be able to experience that story for themselves. I've tried for years for them to pick up the old ones but that's just not their taste of game. Now whenever we talk about FF VII Remake half of our conversations are about the original and how they're bummed they're not getting it.
The ending left a good taste in my mouth. A good and solid game/story partially enhanced by some Kingdom Hearts epicness. Thanks Nomura my man.
He didn't even write it
@@kei7540 The main lead of a game has the ability to green light or nix any element of a story the writers have come up with, the way you put it makes it seem like the head honcho of a game or movie just gets a script delivered to his door and what ever shows up is 100% what he has to run with..........
@@Jonas.A.Larsen so
@@kei7540 So if Nomura is the person with the final say on everything within the game, then he is then responsible for everything within said game.
Also more then just a weird coincidence that every game Nomura has been the lead of the last 10 years have had the same contrived,incoherent story beats in them
@@Jonas.A.Larsen that's cool I kinda don't care
Okay SE you've had your fun now can we get a "No faceless ghosts, giant heartless boss, and metaintergalactic visitations" DLC?
I'll gladly pay another $60 for that thank you.
can we get the creepy musc and bloood trail that was left when sephiroth took jenova away while cloud was in the locked room??? pls??? none of that purple tar crap
Whisper Harbinger fits in the game. It's a weapon of the planet, not a darkside. Altough they do look similar.
Looking at the comments it seems I am not the only one thinking.
"I don't mind changes but bcs of the bad wiring in kingdom hearts games we know for sure that the further this remake goes along the more crapppy the story will become"
The KHs writers are not the writers on the Remake. Not even Nomura. He is just a director. Infact, The writers are people who also write for the original game. 🤷♂️ Except that Nomura helped write the original. And not this one. Lol.
What does a director do?
@@GuitarJester89 and that it what really confuses me. So Nojima and Nomura where involved in the original ff7 but NOJIMA was also involved in ff13(we all know how that turned out) and then Nomura has the Kh story which contradicts its own meaning all the time (my opinion).
Kitase is the producer here so I would like to think they are going to be in check.
GuitarJester89 a directors job is to have the creative vision and create roadmaps with the vision he has in mind. Anyone who works under a director, brings the directors vision to life. The designers, the content people, the developers, etc brings the vision to life with their individual skill sets, presents it to a director, and the director signs off through an iteration process. The director is responsible for the vision and signs off before it launches. Nomura may not have physically written the story, but he sure as heck signed off on it once he felt like it was in a place where he wanted it to be. That’s what directors do. They are the decision makers at the end of the day and it’s Nomuras vision from the start that his team brought to life for him.
@@GuitarJester89 and yet we got a KH ending...
I have played the whole saga, original 7, crisis core, dirge of cerberus, and this Remake. I think Square has bit off more than they can chew on this one, I hope I'm wrong. This was a really BOLD move.
The devs said when they announced this game it wasn't going to be a 1 to 1 remake of the original that they were going to make changes to the story, I don't know why people are still getting mad about it.
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug
There's a large gap in between we're not gonna do a 1:1 remake and we're gonna add dementors into the game that represent lifelong fans and then kill them.
Exactly, If this remake will do something about Cloud's relationship then I'll see this to the end.
Shiiiiiiiillllllllll
1-to-1 strawman argument is deceptive, nobody is upset it isn't a 1-to-1, but MAJOR, IRRATIONAL, CONTRIVED CHANGES hurt a bit
This is such a bad argument. Nobody expected 1:1, that doesn’t even make sense, 1:1 game is already available.
Everyone expected/wanted greatly extending the key scenes, which they did.
Nobody wanted them to shoehorn that meta discussion in using frickin’ dementors and killing destiny with sword.
One thing I found about the feelings of loss and reality in this version is that you go to Jessie’s parents on the plate. In the original it’s not really clear that the plate above the slums is as populated as they show it in Remake. You fee the loss of the slum folks big time but the above plate people are never considered. Just something I noticed
Patch out the whispers and have the game end after the highway chase!
No
Yes
Yes to infinity :)
Make the cut out scenes and Sephiroth extravaganza a highly priced DLC for Nomura fanboys, everyone is happy.
And patch out all Sephiroth stuff and Jenova fight too. And turn it's blood red (this one is a minor thing).
"That which lies ahead, does not yet exist." I may be mistaken, but I'm fairly sure that's a quote from the fictional play "Loveless" used in FF7: Crisis Core by the main villain Genesis, which he, Angeal, and Sephiroth all quoted a lot throughout that game's story. Loveless itself is referred to in that game by Genesis as being a well known story with no known ending. I personally think it's both a nod to the history of the game's lore, as well as a hint to the audience about the future of the story going forward.
The uncertainty makes this game and closes out the game extremely well. Everything I read or watch calls out the feeling of fear over the creators of "this" game messing up a future game. What? This route is a very brave and interesting way to plant the seeds of doubt that things "might" have a choice and thereby opening multiple doors to explore possibilities in individual play-throughs in the future. Even the game played to this point has deviated quite a bit and yet people "loved" it until the end.
The entire package is not deceptive at all. I'm not sure what the expectation was for the word "remake": the story has to stay the same, but the combat and the pacing can be totally different and that is okay until the end boss fight and cutscene? This game is much more interesting than that now. It is down right courageous to go this route. Could it be not as good as you'd hoped? Possible... Which would you rather have though, the unknown future or a stubborn fate? The game indeed forces you to answer this question in a brilliance that should provide the answer in the long term.
Not if it seems like very bad writing. No buildup and instead showing some ghosts that seem to be really random.
@@antiRuka But how do you know it is bad writing without seeing the rest of the story?
nekorain but they did build it up!!! They showed the ghost from the very beginning and if you noticed they were there so that the things from the og FFVII could happen! Like when Hojo was about to reveal Cloud’s real backstory, the ghosts took him away because it wasnt time for that yet. They built “the destiny correcting itself” from the very beginning. So can u tell why its bad writing when it was built from the beginning and it makes for a great reason make a few changes to freshen up the next part of FFVII
nekorain how could you though? How could anyone know it’s “bad writing” when the whole remake isn’t even complete yet...just so baffled by this stance
I do agree with his core disappointment or concern. Just keep Aerith storyline the same. It was such a core part of what FF7 was, and I can't wait to see how they do that.
It seems like they're saying they're not going to kill Aerith
Keith D. I think they’ll do it but not the same way as the original
Does it really matter anymore? Why change the story so much with rambling about defying fate just for events to happen in the same way? What was the point then?
@@Gigamokin to create a period of time where longtime FF7 fans actually don't "KNOW" how things are going to be, therefore it gives us something to speculate about.
Otherwise we'd know exactly what we going to happen, and as much as we WANT the story we always loved, there now exists a level of uncertainty about where the events might go that they probably hoped would excite us.
@@Gigamokin to make the point that you can't just defy destiny. You can't just change fate. That's the point and I think even Aerith knows that
I loved the game so much until the end happened. Though I do kinda understand half way why they would change it so we still kinda have that blind experience, from what they did so far, it makes me nervous as hell if they do change it because the end which didn't follow the story was so shitty. When they followed the story it was amazing, but the end seemed so off the wall and almost seemed like it was made by another person entirely with a lower IQ. It got so complicated needlessly, and presented plot holes in a unsatisfying way, when it was fine being down to earth naturally going through the steps like it originally was. I was like, why am I fighting Seph RIGHT NOW? There was no real influence to fight him now. And why is it all sunshine and rainbows, with Zack, Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie all living?? It's like death has now no meaning, which degrades the story tremendously. And with how bad the writing was at the end when they strayed from the story, how can anyone be comfortable that they will make the rest great if they go further away from the original plot?
I'm so flippin nervous about how they can seriously now either make or break the whole series. Yes, it can be a amazing next game IF they go off the path but do it well, but with how squareenix butchered the end of this game when they did go off the set path story telling wise, I am not confident and I am worried they will kill the series.
Buddy consider this dead..lol retards can't do anything right..I hate squareenix even more now trying to go into the territory where nothing matters anymore.. Hell everyone can just die n then magically come back!! Lame...
@@mikeflightfpv2162 if aerith lives it's actually a bad thing because she can't return to the earth to stop meteor, it's a bit deeper than that really
im pretty sure the reason why wedge biggs jessie are alive and also why the sephiroth fights is all fan service, square is screw so they need a win, that is also why we are getting dlc content already and a port to ps5, they are desperate
Dont worry guys, the new ff7 remake story will turn out great. You should already know from square’s latest final fantasy games. FF15 and 13 were great too! 🤦🏻♂️
I'm wondering how many iconic moments will be lost to this Kingdom Hearts way of doing things. The mako cannon firing at the Weapons. The Weapons erupting from the earth beforehand, it being revealed that they're the planet's last line of defense. Aerith's death pushing Cloud to be stronger and beat Sephiroth. Her death revitalizing the Holy materia her mother gave her, which has been useless up until that moment. Nanaki discovering that his father didn't abandon him, he sacrificed himself to an eternal state of petrification to save the village. Vincent joining because of what Hojo did in the past. We'll see just how bad they screw the pooch. Considering how convoluted Kingdom Hearts is, a complete mess is more accurate, I don't think they could retell the story in a different way and do it justice.
Final Fantasy VII isn't Kingdom Hearts. They should have never let him command it. I have a feeling it's going to bite them in the ass. That being said there's a glaring plot hole in this shit show of timeline laziness. The visions. So if everyone sees Red running with cubs to an overlook of an overgrown Midgar it's obvious they won. Why take the risk and eliminate fate if you know you'll succeed? That's a huge fucking risk to take. There's no guarantee you'll still win. If anything it guarantees your odds are far slimer because anything can happen.
I'd give it an 8/10 they lose points for misleading the fans by telling us the game will be faithful to the original, they said only minor changes in the interviews to enhance the storytelling, then completely change things at the end.
I missed being imprisoned at Shinra HQ, I would have loved for that to have made it in still.
The last chapter felt like a different game, it could ruin the future of the story imo.
I don't want time travel stuff, I don't want changes that could cause a paradox, why complicate an already intriguing and interesting story The original story was fine the way it was, why couldn't they have just stuck to that? All these years they could have focused on giving us that, it's so frustrating.
I feel betrayed by the title. They should call it Remix not Remake. They should have only enhanced and fleshed out what was already there, which for the most part they did but introducing the arbiters of fate and the whispers felt completely unnecessary, we didn't need any of that bullshit. If they removed the whispers stuff and just ended with a Sephiroth battle which sees him disappear at the end leading to our heroes on the hunt for him, then mentioning the next stop being Kalm, then I would have been happy.
All they have done if free themselves creatively for the future, so now anything could happen.. they don't need to stay faithful to the original they no longer need to remake iconic scenes beyond Midgar if they don't want to which will upset many fans who still want to relive more moments from beyond Midgar.
Now think about what we could miss out on now if their sequels stray far from the original.
If Zack survives that makes no sense canonically and causes a paradox for Clouds character. Keeping Zack alive would destroy Cloud's character development, as he slowly learns who is is still. I don't want that awesome character arc removed. I still want to see Cloud struggle with his memory and eventually regain his memory.
If they lose that then all those moments in Remake where Clouds head hurts would make no sense and have zero follow-through.
I want to meet all the other characters at the same places they were before. I hope they still give us everything we want in future games, hope they don't skip over characters like Vincent at the castle, his origin, Cid the aspiring astronaut with a distrust of Shinra and Cait Sith at Gold Saucer.
In Remake, they do mention Wutai at a lot in this game so it's safe to assume we will get Yuffie the Materia Thief in the next game who is trying to restore her hometown to its former glory.
They should have kept Red XIII playable, cause those chapters lasted hours. He better be playable next game.
I hope the next stop is Kalm, perhaps beginning the next game by having everyone learn about why they need to hunt Sephiroth, wouldn't it be good if the others were filled in about Clouds past with Sephiroth and Cloud? We don't need to learn about Zack straight away in the next game, I'd like that arc to continue throughout.
They better honor the original and not ignore it.
After this game I am less hyped and worried about the future games, they shouldn't have messed with the story so much, the whole reason we wanted a remake in the first place was that we loved the og story and characters.
Wholeheartedly agree, feel the same, I almost don't care now about the next game/episode whatsoever.
Sounds like you should've just kept playing the original or a remaster of it lol.
@@TomSNC Spare us that crap, they literally said in one of the interviews that it's going to be a faithful remake (like Resident Evil 2 remake) with minor changes to flesh out the story and characters, what we got is some Kingdom Hearts nonsensical ending courtesy of Nomura that shits all over the story and fans and changes everything about future events for no reason whatsoever, so don't you try defending this shit.
@@AscendantStoic Spare the rest of us the woe is me, I wanted an EXACT copy of a game that's been re released X amount of times already on different devices for 20+ years. If you all were silly enough to believe that you were getting a scale to scale remake of the original when they never said they were doing that than that's on you. YOU attributed it to a Re2 Remake. That's clearly not what they were going for. This isnt a... No Mans Sky situation where you were 100% blatantly told specific things were going to happen and the game didnt have them. The ones who are disappointed listened to what you wanted to hear, filled your heads with YOUR own expectations than lost your mind when reality hit.
85% of the game IS faithful to the original so them saying there would be "minor changes" is technically true. Next game MIGHT not be so faithful of course. We shall see!
The ending is genius you realise this is not a remake.... but a sequel!
It’s a remake of the timeline 🌝
The ending broke my heart. The full Remake will NEVER happen after this conclusion. Not the way we want it, at least...
It's a shame, because up until the last boss, the game was amazing!
Yea I was talking to close friend and mentioned how so many are questioning how many parts it will take to complete the story. It's meaningless now. This ending will work for this remake story they are tell (whether we agree or not) but they can't really follow too much of the original. For newcomers I mean hey it's fine but this is more final fantasy 7 remake alternative retelling than a remake of the original. Honestly I still don't know how I feel. I love the final bosses from a gameplay perspective but the whole arbiters of fate to me wasn't needed. I was thinking the whispers would be tied into expanding the lore of the ancients or jenova not alternate reality, branching paths, time travel where sephiroth wants to control destiny. I get what they are doing but it wasn't needed at all especially what looks to be a huge change that I refuse to talk about right now. (Please keep in mind I am a bit biased ff7 was my first game outside of Mario, Metroid, and Zelda. So yes it is special to me)
@@lc3212 I get it. The conclusion, as a whole, is extremely frustrating. FF7 is the most important game of my life and I believe that's the case for many people, so when they change things of this magnitude, it will break people.
I also LOVED the gameplay. The combat was amazing, but when those final 30 minutes came in, I just felt like dropping the controller.
I just hope they can "fix" things on the next one.
@@guilhermebernardo8505 I'm just looking at more as a retelling. I don't think this should be considered just a remake with the changes. it's more an alternative reality I'm the world to me like "what if Zack survived" then again that screws up clouds origin too. So idk. Lol
Pretty much
Though not amazing it overall ruined the golden goose it had for no reason that because it could
@@gbdeck200 I hope they can somehow "fix" this on the next instalment.
There is a very quick joke in Gremlins 2 where they promote the movie Casablanca, "Now in color and with a happier ending", I laughed back then, but it stings when it happens to you.
Yes, Game of Thrones and Star Wars didn't bother me that much, but my God this one hurts.
Do you think they are personifying gamers as "Whispers"? They show up and are annoying after the first major change..Cloud not being hired. [ Edit: I guess the first one one was Cloud running past Aerith. ] My first thought when he wasn't hired was "that's not how it happened". Do you think it's some kind of reverse psychology where we are being "forced" to fight against our desire for things not to change? Then the whole thing about the "screams" at the end (a major plot deviation). It's like they knew that part would cause the most "screams" from gamers who wanted the old plot and are basically using the player to silence them. I think they are trying to change player perspective so they can drastically rewrite the story. Which is a little creepy..
Final Fantasy 7 : Dark Fate
Or Final Fantasy 7 : And the Goblet of Fire
Final fantasy VII: The rise of sephiroth
Final Fantasy 7: Garbage Ending
I was just as worried as the rest of you that they were gonna Kingdom Hearts the remake but I think it's crazy that y'all can play this game and not have faith in the team that made it. It's urksome to see people take a game so amazing and call it disappointing just cause the rest of it's not gonna be a shot for shot reimagining.
You can tell by every frame of this game no one loves Final Fantasy 7 more than this team and I have full confidence that they'll use the original as a framework to make something great.
That said if Aerith lives I'm out.
They love Final Fantasy 7 so much that they developed characters as a literal plot device to change the story people were hoping to see with updated visuals and gameplay. I have no faith because they haven't made a good FF game in over a decade and the only reason this came out so well is because there was already a huge source material and whenever they deviated from it, it was terrible. Avalanche surviving removes their sacrifice. Destroys the themes of loss, grieving and moving on that the original had. The scariest part is, it seems like they did this so they can shrink the scope of the open world since they've been terrified to tackle it since the start. Expect lots of cut content with nothing in its place. If FF13, 15 and Kingdom Hearts 3 were good, I wouldn't be as worried. But there is a lot to be worried about.
@@2sallads I think the end of the Remake is doing a lot to expose those who prefer low fantasy to high fantasy. I'm partial to low fantasy but I enjoy the high fantasy of some of their other titles. That being said - FF7 took a big nose dive by completely changing the rules of its world in the last hour, and the characters no longer feeling like themselves. Cloud shouldn't have any of the mentral strength to face off Sephiroth. That was just absurd and insulting to his character arc.
@@2sallads I think it's way too early to write the series off I understand that some people just wanted the old game with updated visuals tbh that's out there. You can mod the PC version to hell and back the original story is there and will always be.
The entire time I was playing I was thinking to myself wow Square has finally figured out a way to make final fantasy work in the modern era and I stand by that. Every inch of this game shows them learning from their mistakes up to now (which have been plentiful) including narratively. I loved the touches they added to characters and the nuance and restraint they showed in places I wouldn't expect it from modern Square gives me faith that at least someone there has a grip on things.
what's really irksome is you misspelling irksome. They already used the original as a framework, now that they've got that out of the way they can give it the Kingdom Hearts treatment. And it WILL get the Kingdom Hearts treatment, that's not a fear that's an inevitability. All the signs are there, you're just in denial at this point.
@@akumaisreal2090 We'll have to wait and see.
Something just occurred to me. The original FF7 didn't really divulge an after story of the events from the game (with exception to AC) except for Red XIIIs follow up 500 years later. In the remake ending he states that the flash forward of that scene was bound to happen if they weren't successful against the last boss/es from the remake. Seemingly implying this would be a bad future. Here's my theory.
What if Gaia sees humanity as a plague to the planet and wants rid of it? Hear me out. Shinra obviously did terrible things to the planet, not to mention Hojo creating and unleashing Sephiroth which almost ended it. In the original when the Weapons are unleashed they start attacking humans pretty recklessly. Sure Sapphire and Diamond weapon are attacking the canon threats at Junon and Midgar but also creating a lot of potential human casualties. Ultimate Weapon attacks Mideel and flies away looking for prey. While Ruby and Emerald mosey around fighting anyone that comes in contact with it underwater and in the desert. It doesn't seem like the Weapons are collectively trying to stop the Jenova/Sephiroth threat, which was supposedly the reason for their initial creation by the planet. Maybe their creation reasoning is more general and meant to just stop any and all threats against Gaia. What if their intention was to eliminate humankind because they're the biggest threat to Gaia along with Jenova/Sephiroth. The Cetra are completely extinct at this point having the last surviving member recently getting stabbed, so who or what is there to protect minus itself?
Fast forward to Red XIII's 500 year later scene and it seems that midgar is completely uninhabited. Maybe people moved out and settled elsewhere or maybe humans are now extinct and the only living creatures on Gaia now aren't human. That scene could point very easily to that being the case. And now we have Red XIII insinuating that he doesn't want that timeline to happen, maybe because he doesn't want the human race extinct. Red XIII has a fondness for humans, even having a kind-of grandpa who is human (even though he floats and doesn't have legs). I don't know, just something that came to mind and maybe could see the direction of the next games expressing something like this which is why they may not want to follow through on the original ff7 timeline. Or this could all be nonsense and Square Enix just wanted to do their own thing (hopefully not Kingdom Hearts-esque).
It is heavily implied that this is a possibility ,especially when youu think about the scene with bugenhagen in the city of the ancients.
They actually spill it out as a possibility of events to come if holy is activated.
They intentionally left the end open so the player can come to its own conclusion if humanity prevails or is erased from existence.
It really fits the themes in the game when you think about.
they beat Sephiroth but they overall failed. Sephiroth continues to return in advent children and when cloud beats him once more sephiroth says he will continue to return and NEVER be a memory. The only way that I see sephiroth knowing his future in the remake is if the remake sephiroth is the original sephiroth from ff7 and advent children. He's from the future.
@@SockOrSomething The one thing that could explain him knowing about the future is one addition to the lore that actually is stated in the game.
In Aeris Cell they explain that the Planet knows of its History and Future ,and that the Ghosts are a Part of Gaia that has to ensure this timeline Gaia foresees.
Sephiroth is connected to the Lifestream. He is in a Crystal in the North Crater during the events of the Game. He travelled through the Lifestream after being thrown into it by Cloud during the events in Nibelheim.He could have learned about his future from the planet itself.
This would work without any time travel. The thing is time travel wasn't mentioned anywhere in the game.
@Cameron Pangborn Im sorry but this is not a theory. It is left open for the player to make his own conclusions. You made uo this meaning for you because you interpret it that way and this is fine. Seeing Aerith at the end could also hint at a reunion with her in the promised land or lifestream. Watch the final scene again. In some of Clouds last lines he talks about it.
Even the developers joked about this over the years in an interview.
@Cameron Pangborn which ending are you referring to? The final scene with Red XIII running with the cubs or when the lifestream helps stop meteor? My interpretation is more directed towards the final final ending with Red XIII running and the correlation to him implying in the remake why that's an path they don't want
I still think calling it a remake was kinda false advertising... it's not. It's a "what if" story that also, most likely, will not be in line with any of the previously established canon. An actual remake would have left all the main story beats untouched and just flashed out the "inbetween". It's an enjoyable game, but it's no FF7... and it probably will not be going forward, which kinda deflated the whole experience for me.
What if Remake was meant to be a subtitle? Hmmmmmmm?????
@@dartez666 What's "subtle" about changing the whole premise of the original Story? We go from fighting for the survival of the Planet to fighting Destiny, I wouldn't call that subtle, it's pretty blatant.
It's resonably enough called a remake up until the last hour. The plot hasn't changed, the wispers will likely be gone in the next game. This is purely to state "Things won't happen cause they absolutely have to even if they don't make sense", which is what the wispers did in the story.
@@warbaby32 he said subtitle not subtle lol
@@NeoStasisR Ops... readin comprehension level 1. :D
So really, when you think about it, the whole reason they added the concept of the Whispers without any context until the very end was to rub in our faces that they were planning on changing the timeline all along without telling us?? Real dick move.
After I completed the game 2 days ago, I was happy with the new changes with what they introduced-with Wedge surviving, the introduction of the trio and Leslie at the Wall Market, and the side quests. I was firing on all four cylinders all the way, until I got to the final part in chapter 18. I completely agree with Joe Juba on this turn of events and it has left me unsettled and concerned of the future installments ahead.
Now we have two sides arguing over the Divisive ending-One side you got the OG Final Fantasy 7 fans that are either mad or confused and wished it never happened and should of ended at the highway scene. Then you got the Kingdom Heart fans who are praising the ending and telling the FF fans to play the original if they don't like the new changes, while praising Nomura like a genius and god.
What a time to be in right now.
Bro. Like KH and the OG FFVII but that final plot twist was extremely forced and lazy from a storytelling perspective. It´s like if Nomura was giving us the middle finger and saying "F*ck U bitches, only MY fanfiction it´s going to be true, hahaha"
This KH-Kids sould play with there fucking Goofy and let FF7 alone.🙄
I think it was a cop out, now they don’t have to stay true to the fan base and wrote themselves out of having to deliver a massive open world game.
They wouldn't have to anyway. World Map doesn't mean open world
@@dartez666 but world map is harder than just hallways
FF7 was barely even an open world.. until the very end when you could fly an airship. You were constantly blocked off by rivers and cliffs..
Meathamski open world means open map, not literally the whole world. It was open world to the extent of means of travel at certain story arcs. Open world means free roam. GTA is an open world game and it takes place in one city. The term isn’t literal.
dartez666 open world means free roam. When you finished Disc one and left Midgar it was free roaming to the extent of where you were on the story line. When you got other transportation it opened up more but you could run around and farm exp all day if you wanted.
"The way everyone wants it to be done" Well, good thing no one really speaks for everyone, I loved this version of the story and the future of this story. The fact they can do SO many things without the game being spoiled too hard like the original was, makes it better. The HOPE that so many of us fans have to stop certain events we couldn't stop in the original, like what happens to Aerith, gives so many of us hope that we may yet save her and save the world in a way that the original game didn't do.
Just saying, speaking for MYSELF, I'm in love with this game and the direction it's going, my only worry is what will happen to Cloud if Zack truly survived, and what does that mean for Aerith and Cloud now that Aerith's first love is (possibly) back.
Do you honestly think that a version of FF7 where Aerith lives is a better version? Or even just as good?
@@ryaningram2524 Yes, I do. Depending on how they execute it, it could be even better than the original. I get it, the original story was great because it had all these feelings you could feel, including the heartbreak of seeing Aerith's death. But what's the point if we ALREADY KNOW she is going to die. A feeling of hopelessness? No way to save her?
Yes, there are new players that avoided spoilers and so forth, so they would be impacted by the death of Aerith, but to those who have been spoiled, or played the original, why would you want to see the death again? I seem to remember people LITERALLY BREAKING THE GAME in an attempt to save her from dying. Now, they might be giving us a chance to do just that. They could even play it out with choices and consequences, with branching stories leading to that event, with a chance to save her, or the possibility of her dying anyways. Hell, even a messed up quick time event leading to her death being permanent.
I do think a version of Final Fantasy 7's story where Aerith doesn't die, can still be as good or better than the original. If you want to be close-minded about it, I won't stop you, nor do I care to. The controversy can still be good for them. As long as they execute this game right, then damn right it could bring even MORE fans to Final Fantasy 7 while giving us an ending that shows Cloud actually saving the world, instead of a doomed future for humanity.
Side note: This Remake already did a much better job at making me care about even the side characters than the original. I was falling for Jessie, so I want to see what they can do with everyone else.
I'm with you. Very exciting to not know what will happen next and which characters are safe anymore!
I feel like haters are hating because they are assuming the next game will do everything wrong ~ we have no idea yet ~ give Squarw Enix a chance...
I could also pretty much guarantee that there would be much less excitement and discussion around the next game had they stuck to the exact original storyline.
@@jordanwolfe9853 The creator of FF once said that FF7 was intended as a story about both life and death. The lifestream obviously embodies this concept, but death surrounds the main party too. Just in terms of major deaths, we lose 3 main Avalanche members, Zack, and Aerith. One of the main messages of the game is that those who have died can still affect the living and guide them to a better future. Zack inspires Cloud to be a hero, and Aerith is instrumental in stopping Sephiroth. Undoing those deaths doesn't just remove the shock, it removes the thematic meaning behind those deaths. It removes the deep emotional journey that Cloud goes through coping with those losses. FF7 is an enduring classic because it is profoundly meaningful and relatable. If the remake actually intends to undo that, it will be a great disservice.
@@Evello37 You forget that Cloud, in this story, is seeing those deaths in his episodes of headaches. He is still feeling like he is witnessing the death of Aerith, MULTIPLE times, and once he remembers who Zack is, he would deal with that too. It's not void of death or emotion. Or even lacking character development. All this does, for the player, if done right, is gives us a chance to save Aerith or somebody instead of standing there hopelessly watching as someone we care about gets stabbed, like how we felt when Jessie died and we felt like it was because we took too long to get up there. Same for Briggs. Give Square Enix a chance without having to stick to a story that was ALREADY TOLD, and KNOWN about. It wouldn't be as exciting if it was literally the same story as before.
Dementors forming a massive heartless from Kingdom Hearts. Cloud somehow being able to face off against Sephiroth at this point in the game lmao
lol it was total garbage writing. It doesnt feel a thing like 95% of what came before it.
@@andreseh87 another idiot complaining out of nostalgia.
watch this video and slap yourself.
ruclips.net/video/Rfgw7iDZ-bo/видео.html
Although we were 'mis-sold' the game we were expecting, I think the title 'remake' was less the final fantasy 7 remake, and more, the characters remaking their own destiny (caused by a version of sephiroth, trying to remake his story, so that he wins, causing massive unknown changes)
RPGGaymer how were you miss sold this game? Is it the developers fault you don’t understand the difference between a remake and a remastered game? Nope.
@@benicetroll7857 I thought this game was amazing, and I loved every second of it. But the name of 'remake' is inaccurate. A reamagining, definitely, but a remake is to make the game more or less the same but better.
I'll say it again, I LOVED this game, and so excited by what could happen now, but it's not what 90% of fans thought they would get
RPGGaymer the definition of remake is to make something again or differently. So remake is not an inaccurate name.
I'm fucking devastated. First SE showed that PS3 tech demo and we all thought that maybe we would see an FF7 remake. We were disappointed. Then they announced at e3 that FF7 was coming to ps4 but it was the PC port. We were disappointed. Then they announced the fucking Final Fantasy 7 remake and waited until the very last hour of the game to pull the rug from under us again. All we wanted was a remake of 7, not another series of Nomura bullshit.
Also, what the bald dude said in this video was spot on. They've absolutely spunked the climactic Cloud vs Sephiroth moment and we haven't even left midgar.
It's such a weird feeling, I loved the game all day through and was so hyped for the future but chapter 18 literally killed all that hype in an hour.
Fuck you Nomura
We don't know if Zack survives. For all we know, Zack is limping off right where he get's shot to death in OG VII. CC makes a point that showing Zack dies in the rain, while OG VII shows it as extremely overcast. As Zack is limping away, it starts to rain, and it looks like it could be around the point in OG VII where they show him walking with Cloud and then dropping him off really quick to handle whomever is behind him then pick Cloud up again and then be shot to death.
can you imagine if they did this to let fans believe Zack may be alive just to kill him anyways?
I just beat the remake today. I played the original when I was about 9/10 years old. I’m almost 2 decades older now and I grew up with FF7 as the first final fantasy (and big major RPG game) I ever dove into. I loved the story, the characters and replayed it a few times in my younger years along with the film AC/played crisis core/dirge. Just immersed myself in the world completely. Now, with this remake? I was completely thrilled and welcomed the slight changes. The ending although clearly divisive (lol some/most people are so clearly butt hurt over it)...honestly? is a fresh take to this classic story. Listen we all know the story to a T but until this remake is wholly complete being butt hurt and irrotational towards the development team is kind of insane to me. For someone who’s been a lifelong fan, I truly feel that it was such a passion project and labour of love for them.
Do I think they’re going to just start from scratch and make drastic changes with alternate timelines? maybe but do I also think this part 1 is just to build momentum for the rest? yes. do I think that because they want to build momentum for the rest of the remake that they will actually continue a faithful reimagining (slight changes but same story) for the future? Also yes. we can debate/discuss all we want and to each their own but I personally quite enjoyed it and I’m interested in seeing where it might go. but at this point there’s no point in shitting on the team and crying bloody murder when we really don’t know where it might go. I choose to be optimistic though and I wasn’t disappointed and honestly am excited. And to the newcomers who I’ve seen saying they loved the story without playing the original? Goes to show the development team maybe has some idea what they’re doing. my own personal friends who have never played it said they enjoyed it. having an open mind is key other than that you’ll always be disappointed. No use in complaining even if they make little or drastic changes...gotta just enjoy the ride cause personally? Love seeing these characters and world I loved growing up come to life.
Wish I could share your positive feeling towards the future, this remake was amazing until the 18th chapter of the game when Nomura's what can only be described as "kingdom hearts bullshit" happened. Alternate timelines/dimensions dont have a place in this game and where never apart of the original.
Its basically them saying they want to do whatever the hell they want with the rest of the game and I dont have faith in this direction at all. If there going to start bringing characters back from the dead because of "kingdom hearts bullshit" then I wont have any interest in the rest of this game.
I never expected a complete retelling of the original exactly as it was, but that last chapter was such a wild left turn. Running from shinra to fighting gods. I want to have hope, but after what i seen at the end I just dont.
Overclocked I can totally see why people are so disappointed and worried and angry but what can we do? Sure that might happen but it also might not. It’s too early to judge but that’s just me. I watched 8 whole seasons of game of thrones before I decided I hated it because the final season was something that I felt ruined the whole thing for me. And if you don’t have hope then I’m sorry...just don’t play future installments and stick to the original (but something tells me everyone who feels the same way will still hate play the next parts)?
The way I see it is if they go the direction of throwing everything out the door than there’s no way we can stop them. People are so “oh this fanfiction bullshit” but can’t really be fan fiction if it’s coming from the source.i agree kingdom hearts turned into bullshit but I judged it after playing the mainline titles and BBS / dove into the other spinoffs. Again, I’m just choosing to be positive because there’s no use in wasting energy but that’s just me. I may feel differently once the full remake is finally whole and complete but right now I still enjoyed it and I’m excited to see where they’ll take it and if I decide I hate it then I’ll just replay the original.
Everyone afraid because what happen to ff13 and it just turn to be cash grab because lazy writing
dan gun and I totally understand why. Greatly diverging from the source material into the unknown (like in life) is always scary. however, unfortunately for us we won’t know until the next part is released. I’ll probably be 84 by then. Sigh.
@@jessaramos2992 what make me really angry about this is if they want new story why don't make it base on multichoice not with multiverse (in my openion is lazy writing and just trole from development at this point) if they one change at last it something that we do that change it not force to fight fate it compusing for new player and slap in face for old fan
I loved the combat, the music and seeing the original story remade (especially the Wall Market section) in current gen graphics but would get somewhat peeved whenever the whispers showed up and derailed everything, even if the plot later explained that they were just trying to keep important events in the game running like they were supposed to. I'm honestly on the fence with what the future will hold for this line of "remakes", as interesting as it sounds to maybe have the chance, or the choice, to potentially rewrite certain moments of FF7.
Squar enix lost its touch long time ago.
They did FF7 not because we wanted that, its because they are out of ideas and they know where the money is. Simple.
I really was enjoying the remake until the last few chapters... and then the ending happened.
And then I went from loving the game to completely despising it.
There was absolutely no reason to take this over the top meta approach; nobody would've been mad if they didn't do that.
All of the people who are loving the game right now still would've loved it without it deviating from the plot at the end.
Nobody would've said: you know what this game needs, arbiters of fate and a villain who already played the 1997 release.
They could only lose from making that decision. I have no idea why they did it.
Exactly. I didn't even enjoy the Arbitrarors of fate fight and I basically button mashed through the Sephiroth fight at the end. Didn't enjoy one bit of it. There are so many things wrong with final fight and ending esp to add insult to injury it was intertwined with Advent Children stuff. Like wtf.
Most great things and advancements don’t come without risk. They made a calculated risk that seems like it’s paying off. Despite the complainers, it’s still going to sell. Im sure you’re going to buy the next installment. Whiners are the types of people who like being stuck in the past. At least this feeds the past while gifting us with something new. This is a great game and I am happy to be alive to be a part of all this.
Manannan anam Saving and screen shotting your reply so I can come back to it when the next releases come out. Lmao. You’re going to look like a dumbass. Next installments WILL sell A LOT of units. People want to see what direction they are taking this classic. Quote me on it. And you can deny it all you want but when that happens you WILL be in some way curious to play it. They put too much time and money to screw this up. I’ll be coming back to this reply to say I told you so.
@@ikendoit527 Did you play the original?
If so, was it before or after playing Kingdom Hearts?
Sean Freeman yes I played the original but a year after it was released so I played it 1998. After that I’ve been replaying it every so often and even ported it to numerous devices ( consoles, phone, etc) anytime it was released i bought it. I played kingdom hearts around grand theft auto vice city came out. I traded vice city to a friend who didn’t like their kingdom hearts game and I gave it a shot and liked it.
You’re asking this question because you think i love the remake because I’m a kingdom hearts fan over the OG ff7. Lol. I’m barely a kingdom hearts fan. I haven’t even completed part 2. Never played the others either.
My take?
They're probably still going to more or less adhere to the story of the original, just make changes as they see fit, like give each individual game a Sephiroth final boss fight in the end like they did this one.
It gives each game a strong endpoint so they more properly tell a complete story on their own.
The point of adding, and then killing, the Whispers is so they have storyline justification to shift things around as they so please and to keep fans on their toes.
Personally, I think it was a smart move because we DON'T know what to expect and it adds tension back into a story that we otherwise know the entirety of.
What happens next? Who knows. Are any of our heroes going to die? Who knows. They literally killed the physical manifestations of destiny. Anything can happen, even if we know the gist of how it's supposed to, and probably IS going to, play out.
Compare that to the RE Remakes for instance, where they updated a lot of the story but it's still playing out beat for beat the way it did before. There's no inherent tension because we know it's a straight Remake and can't deviate from the established course.
If you pay attention to those optional scenes they give Aerith, Tifa, and Barret before they go off to rescue Aerith from Shinra, they set off death flag tropes in every one of those scenes.
You don't THINK they're going to actually pull the trigger and change the plot, but you never know.
The only things that throw a curveball to that theory is the fact that 1) obviously Sephiroth knows how this is all supposed to play out and how he inevitably loses in the end, so his plot in here, and with it the end of the story, are probably different than they were in the original 2) The whole situation with Zack surviving his original death scene and how that'll come into play later on.
This is all assuming that Nomura doesn't pull a Kingdom Hearts on us and go off the rails with the story and those two things kinda give the impression that he might and that scares me a bit. But considering how, despite how crazy things got towards the end, we still ended on the same path we were supposed to anyways, I'm hopeful I'm right.
I personally would've preferred a more traditional remake that just expands the lore but plays the story straight, but this was a bold and interesting choice so I'm not really against it.
At this point it's not even remotely possible to adhere to the story of the original......
totally argee
SHAKE WEIGHT how about... Timeline A) Original FFVII. Sephiroth is beaten, but world eventually ends.
Timeline B) FFVII remake. Events will play out largely the same, but Aerith and Cloud both sense that this is a rerun. Aerith knows, but Cloud only has an idea.
Timeline C) Zack survives. Reunites with Aerith, but is continually hassled by Whispers who want him dead to fulfil destiny.
The next game follows timeline B and goes on as expected, with Aerith dying and the game ending with Cloud falling into the Lifestream at the Northern Crater. Occasional scenes in timeline C (done in the same way as the Laguna dreams from FFVIII).
@@SarumSabre no matter what the story has veered too far away from the original to be called a remake. I would not say that someone could play FF7 Remake instead of FF7 and get the same experience.
SHAKE WEIGHT I’ll give you that. Sometimes went along for hours happily recreating my childhood, then there would be a sudden unwelcome curveball. Some welcome ones too.
Well said: a big part of the joy IS expecting to see how they do scenes X and Y and they did show the COULD deliver. Cop-out is exactly what they did.
So the timeline is up in the air yes but STOP saying that zach is walking past aerith in an parallel demention. The timelines of when he is outside midgar and when she is do not even match up. That brush was simply to insinuate that the past changed, he lived, and she is now realizing the change from the previous timeline. Y'all are making this more convoluted than it is. It is not a parallel universe. Fuck lol there is no goddamn multiverse.
As one of the many who adores the original and has played it 10+ times, the alternate timeline stuff is both sort of compelling and a little infuriating. I'm interested in a weird new spin, but I have the same sentiment that "nothing really matters if theres multiple parallel timelines". To me, it already makes the remake feel non-cannon. I'm also a little bummed for people "new" to FF7. The whole point of a remake was to bring a classic compelling story and world to a new audience that CANT get past the graphics/ and technical limitations of the 1997 original. Now newcomers have to do twice the amount of work to understand an already somewhat convoluted story.
Buckle up boys, Cloud isn't in Kansas anymore.
It really depends on what it means going forward. If they're changing a lot of the story, this will be a disaster. Especially if they're making this alternate timelines thing a major part of the story. On the other hand, if they're just using it to throw things into doubt (e.g Aerith's Death) so we won't be so sure what's gonna happen, it could work quite well.
I was thinking the latter, maybe they realized that the suspense would be gone after the first part since everyone knows whats gonna happen and the brand-new-feeling of a remake will be gone by then. So they give themselves a bit more leeway while making people go in not knowing what will happen. Some big moments in the original could really benefit from that if they do it in a subtle way. They won't change allot but changing some small things give people hope/dread for other things to be changed. This adds excitement to an otherwise predictable remake story.
I like to believe that Aerith always knew she had to die to cast holy in the original. The optimist in me wants to say that this story will give us more insight about her feelings based around that decision (almost like Yuna's journey), but I'm just as scared it'll be a jumbled time travel mess.
@@danielmullin5134 Agreed, could go either way. On one side this plot device allows the creators some narrative leeway where the original plot wavered while making things that seemed absolute uncertain. This would add to the suspense even for people who played the original and obviously a remake stops being surprising even for newcomers since they can get all their spoilers from youtube before the actual remaining parts of the game have even been made. If they tread carefully and stay balanced it could improve the experience without changing big parts of the game. I think its vital they keep the same sequence of events and locations and how the player visits those vs the original. If they lose their sensibility however this can become some FF13-2 level types of shit where Cloud and company jump through dimensions and you lose any feeling of the game/story being grounded. So lets see.
Especially if they keep trying to shove the compilation stuff down our throats, Its just all bad really.
Ah, I too, guy on the left, remember when Sephiroth brought down the FUCKING MOON ON THE PLANET.
What pisses me off most is SE said they were going to remake FF7 for fans. This IS NOT FF7!! And these guys got it so right. SE basically shows for most of the game, "See? We can remake the game exactly the way you guys want! But....we're not GONNA! Too bad, so sad for you" Adding the Whispers of FATE or w/e is the stupidest bullshit I've ever heard! Creating the LITERAL AND PHYSICAL embodiment of FATE/DESTINY is the dumbest kindergarten nonsense! So...I guess just ideologies have physical forms? What is the party going to fight next? Love? Hope? Fucking retarded!! Adding timelines DOES NOTHING for the story. All it does it hurt it! Because it ultimately tells us that nothing matters. Shinra's irrelevant. Jenova's irrelevant. Sephiroth's irrelevant. There's no consequence. There's no reason to care about any of the characters or what happens to them. WHY DOES SE CONTINUE TO DO!?!? THE STORY WAS THERE!!!! THEY USED IT FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE GAME!!!!!!!!! WHY!?!?!?! WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY??????????
Because these asshole clowns are fucking retarded and i pray they go out of business for this..
I honestly wasn't a huge fan of the original game; in fact, I didn't really care for the story all that much. So having finished FF7R has me more excited because it may very well be different and not the same story I didn't really enjoy originally. I also don't think it's a cop out to change the story; personally, I feel the cop out would have been not changing anything. But that's just me.
Well there is an approach with good movie remakes where they make changes as necessary to improve the story while still capturing the original's spirit and intent. Then there's this game's game ending where the characters fight against the literal hands of fate in a singularity in order to get away from the original story. You see excitement in this, I see modern day Square Enix storytelling... FFXIII trilogy... FFXV... Kingdom Hearts 3... story just goes off the rails and becomes a crazy convoluted mess.
I am ambivalent on the whole thing. While I would have loved an expanded remake, I also see potential here. The make or break point for me here will be what they do going forward. Two things need to happen in the Remake Project going forward to make me keep buying future parts.
One, they make it so the players can choose how close they stick to canon. i.e. You could do everything exactly the OG timeline for a true HD Remake story, or you can go hog wild in changing the story. That way they fulfill both the crowd that wanted just an expanded remake and the crowd that wanted something new.
Second thing they need to do is no time-traveling or universe-hopping as part of the main story or as an in-universe game mechanic. I get there are now multiple timelines, but time/universe travel as a story beat/ game mechanic means that there is a giant reset button waiting to be pushed - thus all choices and sacrifices being rendered moot. Basically if they keep time travel out of the story, and keep the "time-travel" to replaying chapters after you've beaten the game, then I think think that would make our choices as we play actually have impact. Going further, I wouldn't mind playing side stories that take place in these alternate timelines - again so long as the characters don't start universe hoping in-story.
Imagine just a branching story path like Detroit become human, god that would make the remake a solidified FF7 story.
Actually, this is the best route they could take. It would actually be a brilliant move to be honest....
But I have a feeling that they're not gonna do this and they're gonna blow it based on their history...
Yes finally someone with my openion it Will be epic that why to be honest the ending remake just lazy writing
TY. You get it. People are hating this ending without even realizing the possibilies. Destroying fate gives you freedom to have multiple endings. You're a purist who wants everything close to the OG? You can do that. You want to try a different ending? You can do that? Save that one character? We got you. I hope that's where SE is going. :)
EDIT: Just think about how the NG+ works in this game. They could use that chapter selection mechanic for what you just wrote. It also goes hand in hand with what some developers said, about trying to please the OG players and newcomers alike. Nothing better than making your choices really matter, making the game your personal experience. If they go this route, then I give them all the praise, because it's genius.
@@RTuga02 They revealed the meteor, how could you do OG story with that knowledge this early?
Plot hole regarding the Whispers, if they are so hell-bent in preserving the timeline then why didn't they bother rounding up all the Sector 7 survivors and bury them alive under the slums rubble? They have to correct the timeline right? Pretty sure Sector 7 slums had less survivors in the original. Why just go after Wedge? Because he's fat that's why.
Oh so they only go after the main characters and they don't give a fuck about the NPC's because apparently the will of the planet couldn't care less about them. 🤷🏻♂️
They're missing a key aspect of Red XIII's Vision. It's not that Midgar is over-run by nature. It's that there's no humans left. The original game, even though you "save the day" the world ends for humans.
The Whispers are a meta comment on die-hard fans who want a remastering of the game using Triple A title budget and design.
I don't think a remastering is sufficient for this game. Sure, adding extra content while staying true to the story is fine; it becomes nothing more than window dressing. What point is there to a remastering when the original is apt at it's storytelling? Graphics upgrade? Not worth it.
Also it expands on the idea that the lifestream is timeless and all life happens in a cycle. This is another cycle.
What made the original game good? How can they repeat it to the fans who has already played the original? How can they introduce new fans to this game and still hold that "good game" aspect without alienating them or forcing them to play the original?
These are the question the developers are ultimately trying to answer.
I thought my distain for how mass effect 3 ended was bad. Now Square wants to take up the mantle. I love final fantasy 7 and playing the remake was amazing until that trash ending. This is how I felt when playing mass effect 3.
The only silver lining is that this has the opportunity to bounce back from the shitty feeling ending that leaves even people who were okay with change feeling skeptical. The next game can either be solid and negate some of the fears this ending left me, or totally justify it, but that's still up in the air. If you loved the Mass Effect series up til' ME3, that was it, it was literally not getting any better than that short of rewriting the ending and even expanding it a bit didn't help much, and God help you with how they handled Andromeda.
@@GaminexPro this is very true. They can turn this around. The ink hasn't dried yet. I'm skeptical, but I'm open to being proved wrong. Bioware has shown with Andromeda though and Anthem that big dev teams can bite off more than they can chew and great franchises are paying the price.
@@melantus The optimist in me's hoping they don't go too crazy on adjusting key moments/events from the original is all, I'll be content if we get something similar to this game's character banter and moments and recreations of the OG and more additions/polish to the combat.
At worst I'll just have to ignore it, much as that'd such, but I think at best we'll look back at this ending as "That one point everything got a little too crazy" and probably repress it down to a "Oh yeah, the party simply started to diverge from the original timeline here... and nothing else..."
@@GaminexPro the cynic in me thinks they went this route on the ending because doing the game past Midgar was too huge a project. I mean it took how many years just to get this done and it all takes place in a single city. We shall see though.
@@melantus They hit a bit developmental snag around 1-2 years in but recovered pretty fine. I don't think they'll do an open world of any sort. Something similar to what we have now seems to be fine, a relatively linear game but Part 2 will have some more open zones is all, but I doubt they'll do open world, I don't feel this gameplay would benefit from that design. This game doesn't benefit too well from the segments with basic fetch quests or long stretches of nothing but exploring and combat. It is at its best for me for the strong boss battles, the scripted sequences and banter, the moment to moment dialogue and cutscenes, etc and a bigger world would mean some of that takes a cut.
If they did the zones like they did in FF12, I think that'd be the perfect middle ground. Most places you revisit in the OG are VERY temporary or linear as well, you only canonically revisit Midgard near the end for only two boss fights after all, so I don't see the need to make one large world to constantly go back and forth backtracking in. They can streamline some things like they did in FF7R, like having the whole battle with the Phoenix on the mountain occur in a big stand out chapter instead of this one odd recurring minigame, and tie it to Wutai, (Maybe we get Yuffie here?) instead of suddenly tying this location via the "Large Materia" subplot, which they might scrap anyway in this new iteration.
Remake: verb
/rēˈmāk/
make (something) again or differently.
"the bed would be more comfortable if it were remade."
kisamesouth9000 the key there “differently”. Everyone was expecting a remastered game with new non turn based mechanics.
I had a theory. What did the next game is choice based. So they can basically make the most out of the situation. Giving options to the hardcore players or taking a new path.
@@DasMediocreMan I think the key for the next game, is that while depicting the innards of Midgar, a single most large city was entire possible within the limits of the Unreal 4 engine, that is only 10 or 12 hours of the original game. The next installment, if is going to at least resemble the original open world, will need an open world engine like the one they developed for Final Fantasy XV.
I personally loved it. I think telling a story about correcting mistakes and fighting fate is phenomenal
How alternate can it be if cloud says that he killed sephiroth himself 5 years ago
Good point! Cloud doesn't realise this until after his breakdown, much later in the original. On paper it's cool. But that ending was poorly executed.