S2/E24; What is the Displacement Speed of this Dutch Trawler?
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2022
- English: (Nederlandse ondertiteling hieronder)
With 2x Perkins 175hp turbo engines, the question is how fast you can actually sail with this trawler. Ultimately, every boat has a so-called 'boat speed' and which one that is from Lady Liselot, I didn't know, but I will find out in this video.
Nederlands:
Weet je dat Nederlandse ondertiteling aan kan zetten? Doorgaans zo'n 4 uur nadat de video is gepubliceerd. Klik op de video, en kies uit de iconen die rechtsonder verschijnen dan voor [ondertiteling] en kies daar voor Nederlands. Dan wordt zelfs mijn Engels (knap he van RUclips) vertaald naar Nederlandsch.
Met 2x Perkins 175pk turbo motoren is de vraag hoe hard je nu eigenlijk met deze trawler kunt varen. Uiteindelijk heeft iedere boot een zogenaamde 'bootsnelheid' en welke dat is van Lady Liselot, dat wist ik niet, maar daar kom ik in deze video achter.
Super leuk trouwens dat je deze video hebt gevonden. Ik ben Henk-Jan, en behalve dit kanaal, kan het zomaar zijn dat je mij online op nog meer plaatsen tegen komt. Ervaringen en kennis delen via bewegend beeld, blijft nu eenmaal leuk. Vind ik dan. (en jij blijkbaar ook, want anders las je dit niet)
Als je meer van MV Lady Liselot wilt zien, abonneer je dan op dit kanaal.
Omdat ik veel (bootjes-)kennissen heb die in het buitenland wonen, heb ik besloten om de video in het Engels te doen. Wellicht vind je het 'steenkolen Engels', vergeef me dat dan maar, want zij die uitsluitend Engels spreken of Engels ook als 2e taal hebben, zijn al heel blij dat ze op deze manier mij kunnen volgen. Helaas betekent dit dat een aantal Nederlanders die het Engels niet machtig zijn, de video's lastiger kunnen volgen. Helaas is dat zo.
Maar, als je het desondanks toch leuk vindt, dan maak je me blij met die Thumbs Up.
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#boating #yacht #cruising #yachting #yachtlife #boatlife #sailing #liveaboard #thenetherlands #trawler
CCTV
Many people ask me about the CCTV I use on board of Lady Liselot.
In the description of this video is write all about it: • When Dark clouds disap...
Camera's used to produce this video:
3x Anpviz 4k 8MP POE IP PTZ Camera fixed on Port, Starboard and Stern
2x Iphone X
1x Canon m50 + Dji Ronin SC
1x Dji Mini 2 Drone
1x GoPro Hero4
Drone:
Drone exploitation # NLDb3ifvjojaeg44-fs7
Hello Henk, My trawler (Beneteau Swift Trawler 42) is on the hard right now, waiting for some repairs to the starboard rudder. Your videos keep me happy when I can't be on my own boat! Thank You!
I am glad I can ease the pain a little!
Hi Henk-Jen, loving your series here in the UK at the mo, we did cruise in the Netherlands for five years on a Steeler, but hope to return for the first time in three years this summer on a UK built Dutch barge replica, keep them coming, thanks Steve
Hello Steve, Thank you for reaching out. Much appreciated. The UK is on my wishlist (again.) I even bought the Red Ensign courtesy flag
already. ;-)
Great when the old grey cells actually start working. You will always learn more about your yacht and the sea, as the years go bye and never tire of it. perhaps that's why we love it so. Thank you Henk for another great video. Keep them coming.
That was funny to see, huh? I noticed it whilst editting and it made me smile.
14.7 is pretty great for a trawler like Lady Lisalot! I’d be happy with that.
Exactly, and I know that she burns a lot of fuel on that momentum too, so I stick to the 10 to 12 km/h.
@@MVLadyLiselot I hear you, burning fuel is like smelting gold these days. Still, better to have and not need, than to need and not have!
It’s good to know your hull speed. I watch all your videos and notice that you can do 13 kph easily on one engine only. As long as you alternate engines to even out service intervals it seems to me that there is very little point running both engines except to manoeuvre.
Happy economical sailing. Capt John
Exaclty, that's why I run one as much as possible.
LadyLiseLot, like most water displacement yachts, is quite over-powered. The rule of thumb is that you require about 5 hp/ton to reach your hull speed. LadyLiselot's water displacement is about 35 tons, I believe. This means you need around 175 hp to reach your hull speed, assuming, of couse, that you have the correct propellers installed. LadyLiselot would actually have been adequately powered by one of the two engines you have fitted! To exceed your hull speed by 2km/hour, you need 12 hp/ton. You have about 10 hp/ton installed power with both your engines.To make a long story short: you are quite correct to cruise on one angine only, and only use two for manoeuvring, for instance.
Your hull speed, in km/hour, can by calculated by taking the square root (vierkantswortel) of the water line length, in metres, and multiplying it by 4.5. I would guess that LadyLiselot's water line length is about 13 metres. That would make her hull speed about 16 km/hour.
Thank you for this very informative reponse! The extra HP's are used (and needed) in hard winds, to get her near the jetty or quay.
@@MVLadyLiselot Yes. She is quite a tall ship and would certainly be bothered by wind.
Outstanding content, thanks so much 😀
And, thank you!
Another good videos. Thanks Henk-Jan.
Hi Hans, thank you
I do love your natural way videoing.
Thank you Frank!
Thank you for sharing, again! And always currents in the right directions!
Hi Thomas, thank you
Hi Henk, Great video again, very good edit and commentry, love it.
Hi Gary, thank you for letting me know. Much appreciated!
Hi Jan Henk,
I love to sail with you.
My 50 feet motorvessel, so she's quite similar to yours, runs at 2200 rpm with 9 kn = 16,5 km/h. She has just one engine with 108 HP and has a fuel consumption of about 5 liter/h at 6,5 kn = 12 km/h crusing speed.
I think van de Stadt did a very good job in designing the lines.
I am going to install a gauge to measure the fuel
consumption while running under different conditions. Then I will know more and exactly.
Van de Stadt is a good naval architect. Over the years the ex- and interior of Lady Liselot has become heavier so she was designed to be 1.4m in the water, but is 1.6 now. That does not help.
Hi Henk leuke vidio bedankt.
Hoi!
Hi, so that’s roughly 8 knots in uk money. A nice leisurely pace for sure but no hurry and no worries.
Also what the heck was that catamaran doing in the middle of the channel all that time?
Anyway thanks for the video and catch you next time.
That cat was waiting for the bridge to open.
Hoi Henk, weer een leuk filmpje en mooi verslag. vergeet niet dat je op een boot zit en geen formule 1 ;-). Nou nogmaals bedankt voor deze video, ik wacht op de volgende.
Once you know the boat speed, you understand that it is useless to hurry. "You get there, when you get there."
Just what you need to know, now you can get the optimum fuel/speed balance , you may also find twin engines at a lower rev may also be to your advantage......... we are always learning, no need to berate yourself
There is a momentum in speed where one engines burn 10l/h together. It can happen that two engines burning each 5 l/h give a higher speed. Have not found that momentum yet.
Hull speed for a displacement vessel is (in Imperial measurements) HS (in NMPH) = f x sq. root of waterline length in feet. The nominal value of f is 1.34 but very thin hulls like catamerians will be higher and square barges will be less. Thus a nominal 49 ft waterline vessel will top out at 9.4 knots, adding more thrust will only raise the bow, sink the stern, and make a big wave and burn a lot of diesel. This vessel will cruise efficiently at about 7 knots. If you want to go fast you need a planning hull and a lot of HP and super fast go to a hydrofoil that gets the hull completely out of the water. Sailing vessels will appear to go a little faster but normally this is due to heeling over that increases the effective waterline length. I get a kick out of sailing magazines talking about a 'trawler' with near a thousand hp that goes 20+ knots, rarely can such a vessel go very far without refueling nor would it be either safe or comfortable in a seaway. Generally a true trawler will have 10 hp or less per ton of displacement while the planning vessel will have near 100 hp per ton
I am in heaven if this boat would do 9,4 knts. Like you write, the 2x 175hp Perkins only sink the stern and burn much fuel. I did not buy the boat for speed, I am very happy with her comfort. ;-)
@@MVLadyLiselot The overall length of the boat is 49 feet. That is not the waterline length. The length of the waterline is probably no more than about 43 feet (13 meters). In metric terms, the hull speed of a vessel, in km/hour, equals 4,5 x the square root of the length of the waterline in meters. For Lady Liselot that would be about 4,5 x 3,6 = 16,2 km/hour (8,75 knots). Please note: 8,75 knots is the hull speed, not an efficient cruising speed. That usually equates to about 80% of the hull speed, i.e. about 7 knots for LadyLiselot. So, to make a long story short: an efficient speed through the water for this ship is about 7 knots. Faster than that will quickly ramp up the fuel consumption.
Hoi Henk, nooit te oud om te leren he. Twee motoren is makkelijk om te manoeuvreren en is goed voor als je wat meer stuwkracht nodig heb. Voor de rest kost het meer brandstof, maar daar was je al achter. Leuk van die korte video"s, daar ben fan van.
Gr, René
Die korte video's vind ik ook handiger.
😂 I was going full speed with Moonshine just after we took over. I like speed👍👌
I somwtimews do that, but just pushing water aside is not much fun.
Good man schipper. It’s important to good awareness of you max hull speed particularly when you are steaming with, across or against a strong current (say 10 knots) and have keep calm or patient or just wait for slack water ? Good blog
Thanks Joseph
Hi, i'm a new french suscriber. May you tell us how many petrol did you spen d per hour with your trawler , and if sailing on a single engine disturb balance and trajectory. Thank for your chanel and for the future answer.
Bonjour! Ça va? during my trip from Blankenberge to Ramsgate (S3/E15) I ran both engines between 1650 - 1800 RPM and the consumption was 15liter on average, so 7,5liter per engine in a 11 hour trip. Running a 2nd engine cost 100% fuel burn, but only gives 25% more speed. I use two engines when maneuvering, but if it is not necessary, I switch one of them off.
Because of the wheel effect of each prop, I always have to correct 3, 4 degrees. When using the port engine, the bow will go starboard and vice versa.
Hoi Henk, And thank you for this nice show again, dat was weer een gezellige dagje zo op snelheid varen met maximaal 14,7 kilometer per uur, maar was dat nou met de stroom mee of tegen? Dat scheelt ook in de snelheid zeker met de stroom mee is het een idee om eens het verschil van knopen en kilometer per er in mee te nemen in een van jou shows? weer bedankt voor deze show en kijk weer uit naar de volgende
Ja, ik had blijkbaar stroom tegen. Omdat het eb werd, stonden de sluizen van de Haringvlietdam open, waardoor het water naar zee ging.. Je hebt landmijlen en zeemijlen. Landmijlen zijn door de Engelsen bedacht en 1 landmijl is zo'n 1,6km. De zeemijlen zijn logischer, en 1,8km. Het is logischer omdat de aarde verdeeld is over 360graden, en iedere graad weer verdeeld is in minuten en de minuten gelijkstaan aan zeemijlen, die dus 1,8 km zijn. De notatie daarvoor is "Nm" hetgeen betekent Nautical Mile.
Beste Henk-Jan,
De rompsnelheid van een verplaatser kun je (lang geleden geleerd) berekenen met een benaderingsformule
Snelheid in knopen = 2,45*wortel(lengte over waterlijn in meters). Voor jouw boot, 49 ft, schat ik dat ongeveer 45 ft is. Dat zou dan opleveren
2,45*wortel(45*0,30)=9 knopen
In km/uur wordt dat dan 9,*1,85=16,6
Beduidend hoger dan jouw 14,6 km/uur dus. Dat verschil moet dan veroorzaakt worden door de stroming die je tegen hebt, denk ik.
Of denk ik fout?
Ik houd van 'fout denkers' want die zijn tegendraads, maar dat zal je vast niet bedoelen. ;-) Die 16,6km/h heb ik nog nooit op de SOG gezien (bij stilstaand water in een kanaaltje), maar dat zal aan mijn zuinigheid liggen of juist aan het feit dat het niet voor niets rompsnelheid wordt genoemd. ..
Er zijn altijd randvoorwaarden bij het toepassen van (benaderings)formules. In het onderhavige geval: geen wind, geen stroming, geen golven, voldoende waterdiepte en voldoende ruimte over de boorden. In de praktijk is dat nauwelijks haalbaar, er zal altijd wel een randvoorwaarde zijn waaraan niet voldaan kan worden.
I noticed that you have a lot more comments than American videos. I use the US flag to let viewers & You Tube know the origin of this subscriber. 🇺🇲
Hi Henk Jan, are they 6 cylinder Perkins? and what is the make of hull? My last boat was a 36' Art Defever designed Chinese built Displacement cruiser. I had a single Cummins Diesel a 330 HP Cummins, overpowered but that was all that was available when I had her built. I love watching you videos it brings back memories of my cruising days in the waters of S.E.Queensland, Australia.. She had and bow and stern thrusters. She would do about 8/9 knots before reaching hull speed. Keep up the great work, Peter.
Hello Peter, thank you for your kind words. They are Perkins 6.354 from 1980.
@@MVLadyLiselot Thank you for that, I remember those engines very well.
It probable does the engines good to run them full open occasionally
Yep.
Henk-Jan, ik heb ook een verrekijker met ingebouwd kompas. Altijd zorgen wanneer je hem niet gebruikt en weg legt dit altijd horizontaal te doen. Mijn kompas is na verloop van tijd gewoon vast komen te zitten door hem verticaal te stockeren.
Hallo Gert, goed dat je het aankaart. Deze verrekijker heb ik in 1998(!) gekocht en ik heb 'm eigenlijk altijd in de opbergtas hangend bewaard (verticaal). De laatste 2 jaar ligt ze in de stuurhut zoals je zag.
😂😂😂
Nou, ik houd wel van alternatieve routes en over het hek kijken. Mijn hele leven gedaan. Ik denk dat we die twee getallen wel naar elkaar toe kunnen praten. Mijn formule geldt op diep water. Daar zat jij niet. 9 meter staat me bij. Het is ook een benaderingsformule. Ik begrijp je opmerking. Het houdt bij 15 km/uur wel op. Wij hadden vroeger een Fairline SQ52. De rompsnelheid daarvan was ook zo’n 16 km/uur, realiseer ik me net. Jouw getal klopt wel. Dat bootje kon ik wel opjagen naar 34 knopen. Deed ik alleen op het IJsselmeer en de Noordzee, hoor.
No coffee this video? We always have our coffee with you. 😊
Always enjoy your humor and learn a lot from you.
Oops, I forgot to add the coffee. Next time I will so we can have coffee together again, Karen
Henk-Jan, I really like the comparisons of speeds at certain rpm’s. Another question that is important is to know fuel burn per hour and at what rpm. Since fuel load is finite, I always plan for max range and in a trawler that’s key because as you mentioned the displacement speed is limited. Why burn extra fuel at the expense of range. Cheers.
Yes, fuel burn is another important item on board of a DUTCH boat. hahaha
@@MVLadyLiselot Henk-Jan, I think that’s a great comment for all of us to consider, regardless of what we’re driving! Filling up the gas tank(s) these days cost more and more with each passing week.
Great video and I realize I have not done that test myself neither. One question I have about you running on one engine. Do you have water or grease lubrication of your through hull seals on your drive shafts ? I was told that you cannot shut down an engine if the through hull seal is water lubricated. If the engine does not run there would not be lubrication, meaning your seal would be destroyed. Am really interested in the experiences and opinions of everyone following this channel (who also like to shut down one engine).
I have "Velvet" drives and the manual states:
On the Velvet transmissions, passive turing of the prop shaft also turns the oil pump and no damage to the transmission can ensue.
Freewheeling: "It has been determent bij tests and practical experience that all Velvet Drive Marine Transmissions can be freewheeled without risking damage in sailing or trolling applications. Caution should be taken to be sure that proper oil level is maintained during freewheeling as well as normal running. Freewheeling one propellor on a two engine boat at trolling speed will not cause damage to the transmission connected to the freewheeling propellor."
@@MVLadyLiselot thanks for the reply, but the gearbox is not the problem in my boat. The driveshaft goes through the hull and in order to prevent the water from coming in there is a rubber seal. This seal is lubricated with water, which is connected to the cooling pipes. In other words, a small amount of cooling water is used to lubricate the rubber seal on the drive shaft. I would like to shut down one engine while under way, really liked your idea, but when I shut down one engine the prop will be windmilling, thereby needing lubrication in order not to destroy the rubber seal. Since the engine is not running there is no water lubrication, so am a bit weary to shut down one engine, I may end up with destroyed water seals on my drive shaft. So I was wondering what kind of lubrication you have on your drive shaft thru hull seals.
@@davedavids9619 I have grease lubrication.
@@MVLadyLiselot ok, thanks 👍. That is the reason why you can do it and i can't. Too bad for me. 🤪😥
@@MVLadyLiselot I have a sail boat and the prop turns when sailing. The seal is fine.
If power is imbalanced (more rpm on one side than other) your autopilot will compensate with rudder to compensate for the weaker side, this rudder will reduce hull efficiency.
Something to pay attention to.
Henk you have loosened up a lot is all OK 🤔 no wacky I hope? Your videos are gt & real keep it up. Oh why quoting speed in KPH not in the nautical parlence of knots?
Knots and Nm's are for everyone at sea.
The moment you pass the lock and sail canals and rivers, everywhere in Europe we use km's. Both commercial and recreational.
Ye gods next the French will be using miles on their canals & rivers... na just kidding that's English so non non non
Bij een Lengte WaterLijn (LWL) van ongeveer 13 meter is de (theoretische) rompsnelheid ongeveer 16,4 km/h, ofwel 8,8 kn.
Ja, en hier heb je het over 15m. Maar toch...
@Sailing MV LadyLiselot Uhm..., is 15 meter niet de LOA, lengte over alles?
Maatgevend is de LWL, lengte op de waterlijn.😁
Hierbij komt nog dat de rompsnelheid ALTIJD gaat om de snelheid door het water de STW, NOOIT de snelheid over de grond (met GPS), de SOG.🤔
how about a steeper prop pitch? i haven't yet read yet what Ben Dunselman has posted your way sir.
There is a maximum speed no matter what you wanna change.
Henk Jan, toen je het over de tankturn had, moest ik even denken aan de schroefwerking. Ik weet bij een enkelmotorig schip de links of rechtsdraaiende schroef invloed heeft op de draaicirkel van een schip. Dus nu dacht ik: bij een tweemotorig schip zoals jij hebt, is de linkerschroef dan rechtsdraaiend en de rechterschroef linkdraaiend, of juist andersom? En heeft het een reden of een bepaald voordeel? Ik ben nieuwsgierig.
Welke kant op maakt niet zoveel uit (meestal aan stuurboord een rechtsdraaiende schroef en aan bakboord een linksdraaiende schroef) als ze maar tegengesteld draaien. Dan heffen ze elkaars schroefwerking op, als ze tenminste dezelfde toeren maken (belangrijk hierbij...!).
@@Arnaud58 bedankt voor je antwoord.
Zoals @libertij30 al aangeeft zijn de schroeven tegengesteld. Vandaar dat ik relatief eenvoudig met de motoren kan sturen. Als je beide motoren even snel laat draaien, dan vaar je rechtuit. Zodra je de bakboordmotor langzamer laat draaien, gaat de stuurboord motor meer duwen, en daardoor gaat de boeg naar bakboord. En andersom. Als je de stuurboordmotor langzamer laat draaien, duwt de bakboordmotor en daardoor gaat de boeg naar stuurboord.
Voor achteruit varen werkt dat net zo. Op die manier manoeuvreer ik tussen bruggen door, in een sluis en in de haven, zonder mijn stuur te gebruiken.
Ik gebruik dus alleen mijn stuur (roer) of stuurautomaat, als ik onderweg ben en 'rechtuit' vaar.
@@MVLadyLiselot ik wist wel dat de schroeven tegengesteld draaiden en wat je ermee kunt doen kan ik me ook voostellen. Wat ik bedoelde te vragen is of ze een bepaald voordeel opleveren als ze linksom of rechtsom tegenover elkaar draaien. Maar daar schijnt geen verschil in te zitten, blijkbaar?
Which would mean that the wavelength of the bow wave of MVLL equals her water line length at 14.7 km/hr. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed?wprov=sfla1
You will find a formula there to calculate the theoretical hull speed from the actual given waterline length.
I know, but I wanted to test it in practice.
Rule of thumb for calculating the hull speed (not the displacement speed ;-) is: root of the length (waterline) in meter, multiplied by 4,5. In your case hull speed should be around 18 km/hr. But that is rule of thumb and only gives you an approximate speed. And by the time you reach hull speed you already waste a lot of fuel on making waves...
In our case going from 10 km/hr to 14 km/hr more than doubles the fuel consumption. Our boat burns just under 3 liter per hour at 10 km/hr. That suits me fine, especially with current diesel prices. If I am in a hurry, I take my car ;-)
Exactly. Here too and my car can very very fast.
If you talk about ‘speed’, wether it is km/hr or NM//hr (Knots) then please mention wether it is STW (speed through water) or SOG (speed over ground). The STW comes from the log. SOG comes from your GPS. They should be the same when there is no current. If not then you have to calibrate your log.
Enjoy sailing!
When I talk about speed, it's always SOG. I do not have STW.
@@MVLadyLiselot You should have sailed both directions and average the two speeds. Lovely boat BTW
Ja je kunt een hoop diesel uitsparen door deze wetenschap😉🛥😊
Zekerrrr, en uiteindelijk kom je er toch wel. ;-)
66p
And what does that mean?
So; In simple terms; She'll cruise comfortably at about 15 kt. (1kt=1.15 mph)=17.25 mph.) That's Good by Me...
Unfortunately, it's in KM/h.
17.25 MPH=27.761 KM/h... That still sounds Good By Me... (Is that her comfortable cruising speed, or is it more?) :) .
@@timmit3579 His readings are in km/h, so flat out is 14.7km/h, which is 9.1 MPH or 7.9 Kts.
@@Torvikholm I kind of thought my figuring was a little high... Thank You for the correction...
@@timmit3579 wrong arithmetic boys, actual number works out to be about 7.5 knots and don't ever say knots per hour since the word knots means nautical miles per hour. Nautical mile is equal to one minute of latitude, a real number while both the imperial mile and kilometer are based on some arbitrary number not related to anything real. (the kilometer tried but it's based on wrong data_.
We just found your channel and we are certainly enjoying your videos. Many thanks⚓️🛳😎🌴
And, Thank You!! please everybody about this channel! Share the link of the video you liked most!