Should You Buy A V12 Before It's Too Late? [S4, E12]
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- Опубликовано: 2 фев 2025
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This week Tony and I discuss:
01:00 - My McLaren Experience
07:30 - Tony Wants To Say Thank You
11:00 - Is Tony Thinking Of A Summer Road Trip Car?
14:30 - Lotus Elise & Exige Final Editions
19:30 - Ferrari 812 GTO
21:00 - Is This The End Of The V12 Engine?
25:00 - Should We Buy V12s Before It's Too Late?
35:00 - Lewis Hamilton Finally Signed His Contract
You can also listen to Behind The Glass here;
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You can follow Tony here;
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Thanks for watching. If you enjoy Behind The Glass you may also enjoy my main channel, SeenThroughGlass, or similar channels like LTACY Salomondrin, Shmee150, Supercars Of London, MrJWW, Seb Delanney and Motor Trend.
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Positive comments from Mr Litchfield about yourself, not that there was any doubt but good to see you're as decent as you seem, well done Sam :)
Hi
I have to admit one thing, the ratio of views to subscribers is really good, far better than most RUclips channels
Much better ratio than on SOL
Chris Harris brought up your channel on his podcast!
You know Sam’s been on the cc podcast right?
on what context?
What did he say
Who cares
@@hdsg8361 not you hard man
This podcast is definitley the best thing to listen to while working from home!
Agreed, always interesting conversation it’s great
I’m glad Litchfield gave you credit where it was due after your good interaction.
f12 Berlinetta is the dream - hoping if I can work really hard over the next few years there'll be one on the drive
Oh Sam... Oh Tony...
You have no idea how welcome your banter is today.
Cheers.
A few quick comments: V12 especially paired with MT trans are not coming back. That’s why I bought a DBS last year and am hoping to buy a Vantage S 7MT with one the next couple of years. Every collector with some money should have an aventador in his/her collection as nothing will ever sound this glorious for sub $1MM. F12 will dollar for dollar be a higher regarded car in 2050 vs the 812 only due its Pininfarina looks.
Rare MT cars are ALREADY spiking in value, at least in the the US. Need proof? Looks at DBS MT vs Auto Trans price gap (40% now), F430 MT is up 40% in 12 months, 2009-2014 Gallardo MT Is up 25-30% in 18 months.
If Tony is giving less for a car than WeBuyAnyCar then he is an absolute savage🤣
V12Vantage manual is one of the best and right now incredible value, you hear this Tony.
Frightening how quickly the years are flying by. Talking of Hamilton retiring, just seems like yesterday when he was breaking through with his dad at his side.
Recently bought a bmw 430d. If Tony had one then I would 100% have got it from him. Would love to get my next car from Gravelwood. Keep up the great work with the podcasts guys
Opinion (that's also sort of a fact, too): most of the people who complain about changes in cars cant afford them to begin with. People got mad over Audi never giving very many RS cars- and yet barely anyone buys them. People got mad when the Cayman moved to a 4 cylinder, but it sold better than the last generation. The loudest complainers arent people buying these cars anyway most of the time so I understand maintaining tradition for the sake of it, but these companies are businesses at the end of the day and they have to make money. Why keep products that dont sell enough? That's why the R8 lost the manual for the second gen- fewer than 30% of coupe buyers picked it and fewer than 15% of Spyder versions picked it. Everyone whined and then admitted the current R8 is better in every way than the last one and we all moved on like 12 minutes later.
May I introduce you to keyboard warriors and old suckers mate. If only petrolheads were more open-minded and less selfish. Its nice to have V12s around, and sometimes old is gold, but like you said, we have to move on to keep up with new technology and other needs.
Tony was on fire in the beginning of this episode. He must have sold a lot of cars recently haha
Huge thanks to you and Tony Sam, these podcasts fill the void left by not being able to see friends at the pub and at car shows, it's like sitting down with mates for a good chat about cars!
thanks for your time Tony
These podcasts are the highlight of my week love the current format and regular episodes - keep it up guys! 👍
Tony bought my dad's bmw 230 cabrio m sport the week before last. I have to say it was a seamless deal and process. Can't fault him or the guys that turned up to collect it. And he gave the best price. Top notch 👍 Oh and anyone looking for for such a car you won't find a better looked after one, it's only done 6k miles and 1 owner...
Unpopular opinion: I quite like the TT 5.9L Aston V12. Has its own unique qualities whilst still feeling like an old school Aston V12
I don't think liking Astons V12 is unpopular
@@graygamingps4503 even the new twin turbo unit?
@@masudorex7593 I'd say so yeah. Maybe not as much as the NA but it's still one of the best engines on the planet
Ps: I would buy a Gemera in a blink of an eye. Just love the car, the looks, the idea, the power, the interior, the brand, everything about it. Just saying, bit of bad luck I don’t have a cent to my name haha 😂
Tony's reaction to V12 vantage haha 😂
I seriously don’t understand his problem with that car 😂
just noticed on the intro that the animation for the notification bell isn't right, the bell remains blacked out when the mouse cursor clicks on it.
Long time listener/watcher. Sending our love from Vancouver, Canada!
The last era of the automotive as we know it. The pinacle of this era is obviously the V12
How can watching tow guys talk about cars be so entertaining... Love the show guys!
Keep up the good work Tony & Sam! Here every week!
If Ferrari lose their v12, I won’t care about Ferrari anymore, even being my favourite brand of all time. And I would pick a 458 speciale instead of a 488, every day of the week
Are you serious? I mean, okay noise is great but even 4-cylinders can sound good (ie. new Focus ST, Hyundai i30N, etc.) So don’t lose hope that Ferrari and even Lamborghini come out with a V8 for their next generation of cars, to replace their V12s and they have the same emotional connection. 488 still sounds great, but once again, you are one of those people who are so stubborn and so enamoured over the word “N/A engine” that their death is your death as well. That makes me sad.....
@@magnustan841 well, thanks for your opinion, even tho it was not requested, that’s the way I feel and what I prefer, as is my right. So, don’t moan about other people’s opinion, have yours and I’ll have mine. And, I’m not that deaf, the Sf90 gets me excited but the Roma does not, so, taste, just taste.
@@magnustan841 and i don’t like the sound of 4 cylinders cars, hate pops and cracks, so, nothing replaces a f1 sound of a v12
@@gabrielgabes5074 Fair, sorry if I came across as a bit mean, I just don’t understand how some petrol heads can be so stuck in the past and bash on “EU laws” and climate change for “ruining cars” and for taking away things like big engines, etc.
@@magnustan841 i don’t have that problem here where i live, but, looking other way, Ferrari’s here, like 458 speciale costs 4 million
Who are the people disliking this video... Sort it out people. Probably the best podcast there is available. Well done chaps
For my dream garage I always go by engine and engine location. So getting a front engined V8, front engined V12, rear engined V12, V10, Flat 6 etc. V12 engines are special.
458 over 488 any day. The 488 is definitely not the leap on the 458 was over the 430. I bet you £100 a stg cap and mug that in 5 years 458s are worth the same if not more than a 488 🤝
More in my opinion, a lot more
I agree re: comment on 458 vs. 488 and sentiment changing. Having had both, the 488 just a better car. You need the 458 Speciale if your getting a 458
As always brilliant pod cast. Sam both channels are brilliant. Tony you are a joy to watch. Thank you for keeping us entertained and for the hard work you both put in 🙂👍
I can’t be the only one who thought Tony really had a Gemeria on order for months...
Gemera * sorry
@@gabrielgabes5074 thank you lol
You’re not the only one😂😂
What's that mark on the centre of the desk? I've been scratching at me screen thinking it was something stuck on the screen. 😂
600LT owner here. Car has been fantastic over the past 2 years of ownership with no serious issues. Probably the best car I’ve driven. Glad to finally hear some positive words about them!
I think BTG has got better in lockdown as you haven't been able to make as many vids Sam and so these have been more important / focussed on than historically and as a result these are top quality.You and Tony really work. Great job
I'm happy McLaren made a Ringer for you so you could do an ad for them on your show
Great podcast again. I'm predicting Sam buys a convertible soon, he's starting to realize that they are more fun for day to day driving
Just another fabulous video. Thanks for being real with the car community
Another very entertaining episode and very nice opening graphics.
Love listening to the podcast an keep up the amazing work
Thank you Sam and Tony, motoring gentlemen, a fun BTG episode, energetic talk, really enjoy the variety of subjects. Thought I had recently Sam,
might as well share it, but wondering, how is Phil? Possibly get him on a ZOOM call, but you know, get up to speed with this hearty car enthusiast!
Very smart, spend a whole year bashing mclaren bring them down as much as possible, make a whole load of videos, and then start of next year start to build them back up and make loads more videos, win win!
What’s Tony issue with v12vantage
He had a bad example a few years ago. I like Tony but he really does hate on Aston Martin
What about alternate fuel types
Sam doesn’t seem to like Max Verstappen event though he’s the only one who could challenge and/or replace Lewis.
Now I know the length of today’s gym session👌🏻 Looking forward to it guys🌟
If you haven’t already seen auto traders video on it or heard about it, but Porsche are developing a synthetic fuel that uses CO2 and doesn’t produce it, that’s an interesting thought and if it works then who knows what will happen to super cars or cars in general
I think they will do a small displacement v12 turboed. Like the oldschool 3L V12 but turboed.
A love the orchestra of a v12 in the meantime I will enjoy the howl of my 1977 Honda cb400/4 reaching 9,500 rpm!
Sam love your podcast and have been listening since first episode of btg, but have to say that n/a engines and v12 and manuals won't ever be replaced or forgotten by turbos and hybrids, yes for people like Tony that will always want the fastest the newest the most tech I understand they don't care about feeling and pure driver experince that much, for them it's more important comfort, leather, premium and luxury touch then a pure connection with a driver, and that is not bad! Those people are majority in car community sure! But I am just saying that people that love and breath cars , that would drive 1000 km for to a track in mx5 for 5 laps and go back home, will always pay and admire those legendery cars that are made now days ( CGT, gt3t, f12tdf, lotuses, f1, ford gt, 458 speciale, etc etc and all older cars before tech
I love me a Friday morning when BTG uploads a podcast 💙
45 x 812's for sale because the people that bought a lot of these did it to get other cars and/or they thought they'd make money out of them (dols out prod run) ... and then the GTS came out and prices were falling anyway due to the market changes. It's still an awesome car for those of us that buy cars to drive and a positive steal @ circa £240k for a 1 year old low mileage 😊. I think a future classic.
Another great show, well done to you both 👍
Sam: “any f1 news is good news”
That didn’t age well
If you are seeking my advice.. I would only buy one outright if it's only going to increase in value.. However if the value of the car is likely to be less I would recommend finance or PCP.. The PCP deals out there at the moment are quite strong so this maybe the way forwards.. I hope this has been helpful
45 812 are for sale, because most people that pre-ordered one ended up getting one or a gts before theirs arrived (ETA usually 2-5 years)
Need this after home schooling the brats today! 👍
I couldn't ever imagine calling my own children "brats" or lamenting the fact that i had to raise them myself, rather than dumping them on strangers to raise for half the day. What a sad time we live in.
Struggled towards the end of the F1 stuff but you still gets a 👍 Your intro still gives me a laugh every time #WatchIt 😆
Sam get an Elise..... do a “track series” where you document modifying it for track use. You could do a before and after track times etc etc
Genuinely makes my Thursday bearable
Yes! The best notification to get after finishing work!
Always look forward to listening to this podcast😁 Would love to hear your thoughts on classic Land Rovers (I have a series 3).
6'2" here with a 2005 Elise... I have plenty of headroom... Sam, would love to see you get a final edition Elise!!!! Its nice to hear some positive vibes about Lotus but it is a shame the Elise/Exige is going away; A bit like if Porsche were to scrap the 911.
Came here to like and comment, gonna be listening on Spotify. :-)
What a great podcast keep it up Sam and tony 👍
Respectfully I have to disagree, just because a car is faster doesn't mean its better, every one loves an S2000 and they are slow, the reason why people love them so much is the 9k rpm and the manual transmission. To me the 911 GT3 will always be better N/A and even if it becomes twice as fast if it goes turbo I still would rather have an N/A one because the ones today are all ready super fast and turbo cars just don't sound as good and to me the emotion is so much more important than all out speed.
McLaren still dont build their own engines....its designed and built by Ricardo and they stick a Mac badge on it.
It is actually based on a Nissan Racing engine, further developed by TWR & Cosworth and now built by Ricardo, in the UK! Its utterly bullet proof and even uses Mitsubishi TD04 turbos as they are the most reliable. Lotus and Caterham don't build their own engines either, its the only way low-volume British manufacturers can compete.
@@bispal I didnt know that about Lotus & Caterham, thanks
loving your great show always !
Love you both and I hope to see more fixed McLarens being lent to you. To hear McLaren tell what they have fixed would restore my confidence faster so and interview would be highly appreciated :)
Enjoyed the debate gents...
The instantaneous high torque and quiet delivery of electric motors is ideal for the luxury brands (say Rolls Royce, Bentley, top spec S class etc) ... extra weight a downside and battery technology might need to deliver a bit more range / quicker charging but give it 5 / 10 years and I'm sure the technology will be there.
Synthetic Fuels/Blue gas, or something similar with save the ICE engine.
I have a 720s for around months, fantastic car. No problems!
"My glass is half empty not half full" ... think that pretty much sums up the temperature of the entire nation!
I really love all of the talks and topics of BTG, but whenever it comes to F1 your bias and fanboying over Lewis is almost too much. Keep up the good work :)
Tony gets Sam on Formula E in this episode! Don't let it go Tony!! 😂
Oh yes v12 time! Done for me with a wonderfull db7 vantage manual that tony will probably hate😂 (modern classic inside! )
Ferrari and Lambo will probably have a V12 hybrid for a while before it is gone for good.
But you can probably always buy a used one.
I dont think they will make it illegal to buy and sell used petrol cars for many years.
Keep uo the good work.
I just got a v6 450h gs 😊
Editing was sick
I really hope that the hybrid low capacity v12s become the norm because to me the V12s are never about the most horsepower but about the noise and the emotion and I would rather have the noise and the hybrid system than something like a more powerful turbo V6 or V8
My go to on V12 will be the 812 GTS with a novitec exhaust. They are too much expensive now, but they will come down... And that is the best all around car with a V12 from ferrari.
Imagine if Hamilton retired and Drove in Mercedes Formula E team!! Just listening to you both talking the thought popped into my head! Would be huge for the sport.
Sam if you had the opportunity would you sell the 360 for a 599 ?
Is it just me, or does Tony epitomise the classic British football commentator in this video? 😂
McLaren had and has their issues, and you’re all right to point it out, nothing wrong with it. It is not just because some people had good experiences that Mclarens are free from their errors. Theirs a lot of people who believe in superstition, that doesn’t mean it’s true. My point is, I lost my trust in Mclarens, even tho I have a great love for the brand because of Senna ( not the car, obviously)
enjoyed it as always
Sam my friend, you and Tony have just summed up all that is wrong with the petrolhead community in my opinion. Car lovers get too emotionally attached to what they enjoyed in the past and have enjoyed up to now, ie. manual gearboxes, naturally/normally-aspirated engines and V12s. The appeal of V12s to car lovers is basically the number 12, it projects an image of a powerful, fast car, more cylinders are better, right? Well, not all the time. People are just so obsessed with that, they blame other people for taking it away from them.
For example, N/A engines, everybody bangs on about "noise, noise, sounds so much better than turbos, more emotion, I want noise and emotion above anything, manufacturers are getting it wrong", but is it really that important? Modern turbo engines perform just as well, with only a small deficit in aural pleasure, they are still good-sounding engines.
Realy, its RUclips where all this stems from. RUclipsrs and automotive journalists on RUclips with massive followings collectively make such a big deal about these things that their opinions have become rule-book material for all car lovers, even if they did not grow up in the early 2000s. We all have to stop and think, is all this fuss really justified? Don’t go and s*it on EU politicians, government bodies and climate change activists for "taking away big engines, N/A engines and ruining my car-loving life", YOU ARE RUINING YOUR OWN LIFE BY MAKING YOURSELF SAD. Do what Sam said, just enjoy what you have now, celebrating the past is fine, but don't get so attached that you're not willing to move on. You will become miserable going forward when these cars are no longer being made.
Being attached to things you previously liked or are used to is just normal human behaviour. The idea that people not wanting change (or more accurately, not wanting to head in the current direction) is their own fault and not the people who are doing the changing is absurd.
would love to see you buy an f12 sam! best looking modern Ferrari in my opinion. great sound track to
looks warmer in there today.
Hi Sam. Random question...
Have you seen the Doritos advert? ‘Gary the triangle man’
Is that Seb Delaney????
I luv it Tony , you give Sam as much stick as you like about EV's, I'll be with you to the end of time. it was so funny...
I personally think that all old skool v12's are never going to die as they're going to be brought by big car collectors etc and if i was in a position to buy one myself it would be the Lamborghini as its their swan song the N/A v12
I want £25k before I watch this video
On the V12 thing it’ll be similar to manuals, a few years will go by, everyone will talk about how it’s not made a great deal of difference. New smaller engines make the same/more power whilst being more efficient V12 prices will drop like manuals did. But then all we’ll have is the same uninspiring sounding forced induction cars everywhere, then people will talk about the lack of emotion/differentiation and they’ll be no alternatives (prime example why lambo do well in the market is people who want emotion vs performance buy them) people will look back and think shit I need a v12 and prices will go up massively.
I think most McLaren customers can probably afford to lose a massive amount of money in depreciation and not be bothered one bit so long as their experience is one of reliability, build quality and great customer service. McLarens biggest mistake has been to focus on volume and not on reputation when building the business, and that's cost them dearly.
Have to speak on the Mclaren Artura next episode
I want a F12 TDF (definitely can’t afford it tho)!
I totally disagree with you guys on the V12 only for sports car theory. I know a V12 is so important to Lamborghini & Ferrari as it is and always was part of their history/philosophy. But I personally think it’s rather the other way around with having a big Bimmer, Mercedes or Rolls-Royce for the smoothness. Just because you’re not the target group of those big refined cars (you might be if you turn older), it’s a bit unfair to say they wouldn’t need it. I think because sports cars are about performance not refinement, they should find new ways, like saving weight, clever turbos (F40, 959). A Rolls-Royce needs the big smooth V12 as it is more cultured, silent, effortless, blabla. I don’t see it for 7-series/S-Class as they have their big V8’s in the range, which performance wise are stronger anyway, V12 here is unnecessary & was always a pain to maintain.
Quite frankly: yes!