Wow, I am very surprised that Titebond III had such a short working time. I'm putting beeboxes together and selected the TB3 because they stated it has the longest working time of all the titebond lineup. Oh well, I bought it and am of course doing research while I wait for its arrival. Thanks for taking all this time and presenting some interesting variations. Thumbs UP
Frederick Dunn: In practice it has a long open time more than double #2. I don’t know if the pulling apart and together effected things but in setup you typically don’t pull things apart; you glue up, put together, shift things and clamp. You’ll be find with #3. #2 is short more like 10 or less minutes in practice.
how long was the time between the glue up and the stress test with thor’s hammer? I’ve been curious as to how long after glueing a joint , before i can get back on it with a router or saw, or plane without messing up the glue joint
Hi, I totally appreciated this video. And, it came at the best time. I’m about to do a repair on my banjo and Titebond Original was recommended for that repair. I now have full confidence in that product. Thanks again... I just subscribed and am glad that I did. 🎸😎
A very popular PVA wood glue is Gorilla Wood Glue. I’ve had very good results, and I really like the size and shape of the bottle. Not commenting on the original water activated Gorilla Glue.
Ever since the strength of end-grain gluing is established, all PVA glues are not just strong enough. All PVA's are stronger than the lignin, long grain to long grain joint will fail not at the glue-line, but this is not the only consideration. End-grain joints will fail at the glue line, but not weaker than long-grain joints, per unit area. Titbond III is significantly stronger than Titbond original for gluing 2x4s end-grain joints.
Hi sir, Thank you so much for your piece on this PVA Adhesives topic - very much enjoyed that and Yes I'd stayed and watched all till the end...! 😆 For me very informative and interesting as I'm searching for my own "GO to Glue" favour and videos like this making it easier to find the Right One for me‼️ And BTW this was first time I come across to your RUclips channel and guess what - instant Subscription👍💪👌 So thank you hugely and please keep doing what you doing and have desire for it and I'll go to watch some more of yours videos 😉 Greetings from Ireland 🇮🇪 👋
@@JackbenchWoodworking Hi Jack, I saw in the comments down below mentioned Evo-stick and couldn't resist to reply on that one, I'm actually user of that particular brand my self here in Europe but I'm looking for something better/higher level now and after my lengthy research and last few RUclips vids including yours I'm positive for TB-II Premium, so I can't wait to get hands on that one and to make a proper comparison...!
Thanks Michael, I am very curious about Evo-stick. It isn't readily available in the states, but it does seem to get very good reviews. What are your concerns with it?
@@JackbenchWoodworking Well Jack this is turning into the quiet conversation 😅 doesn't it...?! I wouldn't say that there is concerns regarding of use Evo-stick as a Good PVA Adhesives here in Europe (Ireland at least) having said that its started I would say good few years ago with a strong influence mainly from RUclips channels of American brands coming up to our markets and slowly building up the appetite and interest in what you've guys been working with for over an decades and therefore to try it overseas in here... At least that would be my understanding of it... When you following few woodworking RUclips channels and 7 out of 10 would be praising between 2 brands you started to be curious about it - don't you?
That does make sense. The Fine Woodworking test showed that almost all wood glues on the market are stronger than the wood itself. With the exception of water resistance, that makes me think that the most important differences relate to the working properties. i.e. open time. I am interested to hear how you compare Evo to Titebond II
Basic low physical property type wood glues ......"PVA" if need more serious chemical resistance, water proof ie boatbuilding only ever use epoxy paste glues ... or make your own up out of resin and fillers
Thank you for sharing your results. I came to your video because I am searching for information on which glues offer me the longest "working time." I am new to woodworking and noticed on my last couple projects, that the glue started setting up so quickly, I couldn't make little adjustments to pieces glued together after only a short time. This seemed to be exacerbated during warmer dry weather here in California. i am preparing to do a couple projects and wanted insights on glue I should try fr these projects...Thank you....
Thanks Rob. Liquid hide glue was out of the scope of this test because I was only testing PVA glues. I use Old Brown Glue when I have a more complex glue up. It must be warmed up before use and it requires longer clamp time, but it is much more forgiving during glue ups.
I love to watch these videos, so nothing against the video per se. but why do they always have the exact same glue that everybody else shows. Not once have i seen any test of Titebond vs Selley's aquadhere wood glues. its always titebond, superglue, gorilla, Cyanoacrylate glue.
since this is unscientific testing seems to me that quantifying differences is ill advised. instead I ranked the different glues in each test and added the ranks and came up with the following for best Glue in this category: Unibond and Titebond original were tied for first Elmer glue came in third Unibond_One 8 TB Original 8 Elmers Glue 9 Better Bond 12 TB Cold 14 TB2 15 Pro glue 20 TB3 23
Interesting test with interesting results. However, I think by constantly breaking the wood glue apart, you are not getting the true rest of if it is reposition-able. If it were to set clamped & undisturbed for 5-10 min & then try to pull apart... I think you would have very different results. Also, I’m in Florida. I’m lucky to get 10 min working time before you can’t reposition.
I'm sure with all the woodworkers you have already heard this. (1) PVA works dramatically better if you glue BOTH sides of the joint. Fine Furniture did extensive tests on this a few years ago, and it turns it from the glue being the failure typically, to the wood being the point of failure. (2) You were actually testing "working time" not "open time" (3) PVA has a shelf life of 3-6 months after opening, depending on various factors and 12-18 months prior to being opened. (4) Veneer pressure must be even and universal for many reasons. (5) You need to use clamps or related methods, or you are getting a small fraction of the benefit of a good glue. (6) You need to use one of the Elmer "wood" glues, not the household glue-all that you are using. It will provide dramatically different results-- especially if you use proper pressure on glued materials.
some surprising results there, i was surprised with the results for titebond 3 and i bet james at kings fine woodworking is crying in his glue lol, you know how much he luvs his titebond 3, looking forward to the rest of the test are you going to be testing proper hide glue as well not just the pre made stuff... many thanks scott
this is impact strength (test with a mallet)... it is a main characteristic for thermosetting plastics. And, by the way, all of this glues have a basic PolyVinylAlcohol (not Acetate)
Thanks, you're probably right about the impact test. Wikipedia says that PVA stands for Polyvinyl Acetate. What am i missing? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_acetate
Great insights Charlie, thanks for sharing your results with all of us. I feel like this is something we've all been interested in testing, but you sir are the one with the patience to do it!
What you were testing was not the "open time" but the "working time" of the glue. Open time is how long you have to assemble your parts after applying the glue. Working time is how long you can reposition parts once they've been assembled. As you saw, even with the same glue, working time can vary greatly depending on a number of factors. In this case, clamping forced moisture out of the glue into the wood, causing the glue to set much more quickly than with your other assembly methods. So, Tightbond III does have a longer open time than the other two Tightbond glues you tested. It may not have a longer working time. If you want to be able to reposition your parts, hide glue is your best bet. Even years after assembly, a little heat will liquify the glue and free the joint. But, it's slow and its expensive.
I was going to say the same thing. I'll also add that the proper way to measure open time is to prepare a number of samples with the joints open for different times (say, 1-minute, 2, 3, up to 15-minutes), and then destructively test the joints to see at what open time the strength begins to fall off.
I'm a first time viewer and i thoroughly enjoyed this video. I guess I was under the impression (just my thinking here) that "open" time meant the time between spreading the glue and then adding on the wood. Sometimes, on a large or intricate glue up, I'm in hurry mode trying to get all the pieces together before the glue is either dried out or too tacky to get the pieces together. Jeez i hope that makes sense
Yes, this was not the testing I expected. I don't think this was a test of "open time" at all because the joints were closed right away. The term "working time" was used frequently throughout the video, and I think this was definitely a usable study for that, but not for open time.
Thumbs up! This really makes sense. Different manufacturers have different "open time", the best choice is using the adhesive according to the instruction. Aside from it, you might need to notice "working time" too if it mentioned in the instruction.
Nice work Charlie I can appreciate all the work you put in to this video. Funny side note - my daughter uses the Elemer's glue to make slime. She has gone through at least 2 gallons of the stuff thank god its cheaper than the rest. Next video which glue makes the best slime?
Fine Woodworking magazine did a great test on glue strength. The bottom line is that all of these glues are strong enough for furniture and cabinet making.
Thanks for this... entertaining and educational video... I think there needs to be more scientific study of glues saturation levels and clamping pressures... the data available from the glue companies doesn't seem to mimic real world applications.
Hi Charlie, Very interesting tests! I was impressed with how well Elmers did. Maybe I can save some money in my shop. BTW, I have a veneering question - What do you use for a veneer softener? I have some older veneer that has become brittle and I know I can buy a commercial product, but I have also heard about mixing glycerin with water. Any thoughts?
HI Jim, Elmers is definitely less expensive and is seems to work really well. I've only used the commercial veneer softener, but there are a few different recipes for flattening veneer with glycerin. One that I have handy is 3 parts water, 1 part, glycerin, 1 part denatured alcohol, and two parts white glue. I think the glue is intended to help the veneer to remain flat. I would probably leave it out if I just wanted to soften it.
PVA has a shelf time, which is 12 months, the fresher the better. The same good glue will be not so good by the end of its shelf time. And after opening, the glue will become rapidly weaker within two to three months. It's frustrating that manufacturing dates on the container are coded, although for a good reason, they want you to buy it, even after 12 months from DOM !! For a job you highly care about, buy the freshest glue you can find, look for the letters in the Date of Manufacture, choose the one that has the letters that are last in the alphabet. Or, buy from a popular supplier a popular bottle size (I am doing this) as they presumably sell a lot of that size, so the glue does not get stored for too long.
I like Gorilla wood glue when I need to put something together fast, like for a rub joint. I don't use it for regular joinery because it tacks up so quickly.
@@JackbenchWoodworking it does. But since i work fast with nails.( Ryobi nail gun) . I dont care about that . That much. I liked tidebond. But i used gorrilla glue once and i aint going back
i don't get it, working time usually means how long you have to make a minor re-position not repeatedly separating and putting it back together, that's what Velcro is for. i think most wood workers would agree that the most frustrating aspect of any wood working project is the down time wasted waiting for glue to dry. for me all wood glue drys to slow but with that said i use gorilla wood glue which has great immediate tacking power and short clamping time so i can get on with the project and get it done......
Thanks for the comment. The glossary on Titebond's website says this: Working life: The period of time during which and adhesive..., remains suitable for use. This definition seems rather vague. Another definition that I've heard is the amount of time that the glue can sit before assembly. Honestly, I don't know if my test truly addressed the formal definition. The most common problem that I encounter is needing to re-position the work after it is partially assembled. Hence, my test.
@@JackbenchWoodworking Urea is the main human waste product in urine, so K. M. is referring to Old Brown Glue and Titebond Hide Glue--hide glues that stay liquid at room temperature.
I think the bottom line of this whole test Charlie is you need more friends LOL! I for one appreciate you putting the time in on all the various testing you did very interesting and yes I watched to the end!
Thanks Opa. I really got sucked into this one. At first I was going to combine the working time test, the veneer test, and the lamination test in one video. I was barely able to get the working time into one video!
That was a very interesting test, Charlie. Thanks for taking the time. I was quite surprised as you were, that the Titebond III having one of the lowest open times.
I think it depends on what you are working on. If I am trying to glue a complex piece together then I want a long working time. If I am just trying to put two pieces of wood together then it would be nice if they stuck together quickly.
I accept the idea of Jack Bench Woodworking, it really depends on what you are dealing with. If you are tacking patch to clothes, you'd better use embroidery spray adhesive: ruclips.net/video/F0-FOUjJdkM/видео.html
Nice job and patience. LOL! Watching glue dry....The results are interesting especially to po Folk,,,, It appears that some claims are not accurate I' was wonder about using the elmers when doing veneer work as a side bar. Of course it's easy to suggest and harder to do.
Well put, Tom: watching glue dry! I have always used white glue for veneer work and I know that Tom Schrunk uses it exclusively. It helps that it is only $11 a gallon!
That was very unique test and one that we all kinda took for granted but the resaults are shocking. We all buy the titebond 2/3 for long set time . Their slogan is : Titebond - The Most Trusted Name in Adhesives. This test shows the opposite! I wonder what they have to say about this.
Some interesting results there. The "tack" test was most interesting for me, I think. I'm less concerned with how long I have until the glue dries up and fails and I have to add more, than I am with how quick do I have to be before the glue gets so tacky that it gets difficult to work with, prior to failure, if that makes sense. Interesting video sir.
For wood that is split/cracked, but not in two pieces I usually work some white glue into the space and then clamp it down. I have also had good luck with thin CA glue. I always "try" to wedge a small piece of wood into the crack ahead of time to make it easier to get the glue into the space.
Why did you use Elmer's glue all and not the Elmer's wood glue.. I believe the results would be different and the wood in the destruction faze would not come a part so easy... but now Elmer's have change the formula to be more like Titebond.... Been using Elmer's wood glue for ever and it does thing the other glues can not do...... one, on the work bench mix a little with water and paint the top of the work bench now you have near undestructable top... you can hit with a hammer and no dent... I did not say beat it to death .... no splinters will come up and Titebond II will not do this as well..... plus the Elmer's wood glue, if the end of a piece of wood has splinter or parts lift up on ply wood and they glue in place easier....
You seem a little to worried about hurting some company’s feelings doing a real strength test which is what most are more interested in! Gets your man pants on!
Thanks for watching. Not worried about anyone's feelings, especially the glue companies. Nobody sponsored this, or any of my videos. I spent about $70 on glue and the test took days to complete. Adding strength test would simply have been more time than I was willing to invest in a free video. Especially since Fine Woodworking already did a comprehensive strength test and determined that all of them are stronger than the wood. Please send me a link to the video when you to do a strength test because I would love to see it.
@goozle27 Probably the best glue for bent laminations is Unibond 800. The guys at Vacupress are the experts on this and they're happy to answer questions. Maybe shoot them an email or give them a call: www.vacupress.com/product/unibond-800-1-gallon-liquid-resin/
I was surprised about that, too. I downloaded the FWW article a while back and don't remember having to log in to get it. AFTER I completed the video and after I uploaded it to RUclips I discovered that they wanted you to be a member to access it. Try going to James King's website :)
some surprising results there, i was surprised with the results for titebond 3 and i bet james at kings fine woodworking is crying in his glue lol, you know how much he luvs his titebond 3, looking forward to the rest of the test are you going to be testing proper hide glue as well not just the pre made stuff... many thanks scott
Hi Scott, I was pretty surprised by the Titebond III too. I really expected it to be one of the best ones. I'm not planning to actually test any hide glues just yet. I want to test the PVA glues with veneer and then run another test on bent laminations. Hide glue would be down the road a ways, if at all. Thanks!
Wow, I am very surprised that Titebond III had such a short working time. I'm putting beeboxes together and selected the TB3 because they stated it has the longest working time of all the titebond lineup. Oh well, I bought it and am of course doing research while I wait for its arrival. Thanks for taking all this time and presenting some interesting variations. Thumbs UP
Thanks Fredrick!
Frederick Dunn: In practice it has a long open time more than double #2. I don’t know if the pulling apart and together effected things but in setup you typically don’t pull things apart; you glue up, put together, shift things and clamp. You’ll be find with #3. #2 is short more like 10 or less minutes in practice.
Excellent video. I appreciate all the time that was put into this video and it surely helped out the beginning woodworker. Thank you!
Thanks Julia! I'm glad that you liked it.
Maybe I missed it, but what is the ambient temperature? This can radically affect working/dry time. :)
Great question! The temperature was about 70 degrees when I conducted this test and the air was fairly dry.
how long was the time between the glue up and the stress test with thor’s hammer? I’ve been curious as to how long after glueing a joint , before i can get back on it with a router or saw, or plane without messing up the glue joint
Hi, I totally appreciated this video. And, it came at the best time. I’m about to do a repair on my banjo and Titebond Original was recommended for that repair. I now have full confidence in that product. Thanks again... I just subscribed and am glad that I did. 🎸😎
Thanks Dan!
A very popular PVA wood glue is Gorilla Wood Glue. I’ve had very good results, and I really like the size and shape of the bottle. Not commenting on the original water activated Gorilla Glue.
Gorilla pva is the best glue available in Australia.
Good stuff 30 minutes remove clamps..
2 hours and no way can you break it
I call BS -- I think you *are* a scientist! Great tests! Thanks for the video!
Thanks Harry! (you had me going there for a minute :)
Ever since the strength of end-grain gluing is established, all PVA glues are not just strong enough. All PVA's are stronger than the lignin, long grain to long grain joint will fail not at the glue-line, but this is not the only consideration.
End-grain joints will fail at the glue line, but not weaker than long-grain joints, per unit area. Titbond III is significantly stronger than Titbond original for gluing 2x4s end-grain joints.
Hi sir,
Thank you so much for your piece on this PVA Adhesives topic - very much enjoyed that and Yes I'd stayed and watched all till the end...! 😆
For me very informative and interesting as I'm searching for my own "GO to Glue" favour and videos like this making it easier to find the Right One for me‼️
And BTW this was first time I come across to your RUclips channel and guess what - instant Subscription👍💪👌
So thank you hugely and please keep doing what you doing and have desire for it and I'll go to watch some more of yours videos 😉
Greetings from Ireland 🇮🇪 👋
Hi Michael, thanks so much for you nice comment! I'm glad you liked the video!
@@JackbenchWoodworking Hi Jack,
I saw in the comments down below mentioned Evo-stick and couldn't resist to reply on that one, I'm actually user of that particular brand my self here in Europe but I'm looking for something better/higher level now and after my lengthy research and last few RUclips vids including yours I'm positive for TB-II Premium, so I can't wait to get hands on that one and to make a proper comparison...!
Thanks Michael, I am very curious about Evo-stick. It isn't readily available in the states, but it does seem to get very good reviews. What are your concerns with it?
@@JackbenchWoodworking Well Jack this is turning into the quiet conversation 😅 doesn't it...?!
I wouldn't say that there is concerns regarding of use Evo-stick as a Good PVA Adhesives here in Europe (Ireland at least)
having said that its started I would say good few years ago with a strong influence mainly from RUclips channels of American brands coming up to our markets and slowly building up the appetite and interest in what you've guys been working with for over an decades and therefore to try it overseas in here... At least that would be my understanding of it...
When you following few woodworking RUclips channels and 7 out of 10 would be praising between 2 brands you started to be curious about it - don't you?
That does make sense. The Fine Woodworking test showed that almost all wood glues on the market are stronger than the wood itself. With the exception of water resistance, that makes me think that the most important differences relate to the working properties. i.e. open time. I am interested to hear how you compare Evo to Titebond II
Basic low physical property type wood glues ......"PVA" if need more serious chemical resistance, water proof ie boatbuilding only ever use epoxy paste glues ... or make your own up out of resin and fillers
Epoxy is great for wet environments.
Thank you for sharing your results. I came to your video because I am searching for information on which glues offer me the longest "working time." I am new to woodworking and noticed on my last couple projects, that the glue started setting up so quickly, I couldn't make little adjustments to pieces glued together after only a short time. This seemed to be exacerbated during warmer dry weather here in California. i am preparing to do a couple projects and wanted insights on glue I should try fr these projects...Thank you....
Thanks Rob. Liquid hide glue was out of the scope of this test because I was only testing PVA glues. I use Old Brown Glue when I have a more complex glue up. It must be warmed up before use and it requires longer clamp time, but it is much more forgiving during glue ups.
I love to watch these videos, so nothing against the video per se. but why do they always have the exact same glue that everybody else shows. Not once have i seen any test of Titebond vs Selley's aquadhere wood glues. its always titebond, superglue, gorilla, Cyanoacrylate glue.
I would love to have included Selley's, but it is not readily available where I live in Minnesota.
Why did you not test Gorilla Wood Glue?
Sorry, to keep it manageable I had to limit my tests to PVA type glues.
Gorilla wood glue is a really good pva glue
since this is unscientific testing seems to me that quantifying differences is ill advised. instead I ranked the different glues in each test and added the ranks and came up with the following for best Glue in this category: Unibond and Titebond original were tied for first Elmer glue came in third
Unibond_One 8
TB Original 8
Elmers Glue 9
Better Bond 12
TB Cold 14
TB2 15
Pro glue 20
TB3 23
Interesting test with interesting results. However, I think by constantly breaking the wood glue apart, you are not getting the true rest of if it is reposition-able. If it were to set clamped & undisturbed for 5-10 min & then try to pull apart... I think you would have very different results. Also, I’m in Florida. I’m lucky to get 10 min working time before you can’t reposition.
You're probably right that the results would be different if I left them clamped for 10 minutes.
I'm sure with all the woodworkers you have already heard this. (1) PVA works dramatically better if you glue BOTH sides of the joint. Fine Furniture did extensive tests on this a few years ago, and it turns it from the glue being the failure typically, to the wood being the point of failure. (2) You were actually testing "working time" not "open time" (3) PVA has a shelf life of 3-6 months after opening, depending on various factors and 12-18 months prior to being opened. (4) Veneer pressure must be even and universal for many reasons. (5) You need to use clamps or related methods, or you are getting a small fraction of the benefit of a good glue. (6) You need to use one of the Elmer "wood" glues, not the household glue-all that you are using. It will provide dramatically different results-- especially if you use proper pressure on glued materials.
some surprising results there, i was surprised with the results for titebond 3 and i bet james at kings fine woodworking is crying in his glue lol, you know how much he luvs his titebond 3, looking forward to the rest of the test are you going to be testing proper hide glue as well not just the pre made stuff... many thanks scott
:-)
this is impact strength (test with a mallet)... it is a main characteristic for thermosetting plastics. And, by the way, all of this glues have a basic
PolyVinylAlcohol (not Acetate)
Thanks, you're probably right about the impact test. Wikipedia says that PVA stands for Polyvinyl Acetate. What am i missing? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_acetate
any way! thanks for information. Your video is more informative than others)))
макс гончаров Thanks!!!
getting ready to go to the store to buy some wood glue... You will decide the fate of my purchase. The weight of the world is on your shoulders.
LOL!!
Great insights Charlie, thanks for sharing your results with all of us. I feel like this is something we've all been interested in testing, but you sir are the one with the patience to do it!
Thanks Chris, I'll see you on Feb. 3rd!
What you were testing was not the "open time" but the "working time" of the glue. Open time is how long you have to assemble your parts after applying the glue. Working time is how long you can reposition parts once they've been assembled. As you saw, even with the same glue, working time can vary greatly depending on a number of factors. In this case, clamping forced moisture out of the glue into the wood, causing the glue to set much more quickly than with your other assembly methods. So, Tightbond III does have a longer open time than the other two Tightbond glues you tested. It may not have a longer working time.
If you want to be able to reposition your parts, hide glue is your best bet. Even years after assembly, a little heat will liquify the glue and free the joint. But, it's slow and its expensive.
Thanks for the info!
I was going to say the same thing.
I'll also add that the proper way to measure open time is to prepare a number of samples with the joints open for different times (say, 1-minute, 2, 3, up to 15-minutes), and then destructively test the joints to see at what open time the strength begins to fall off.
I'm a first time viewer and i thoroughly enjoyed this video. I guess I was under the impression (just my thinking here) that "open" time meant the time between spreading the glue and then adding on the wood. Sometimes, on a large or intricate glue up, I'm in hurry mode trying to get all the pieces together before the glue is either dried out or too tacky to get the pieces together. Jeez i hope that makes sense
Thanks Ben. You make perfect sense! I am sure there are many ways to think about this.
Yes, this was not the testing I expected. I don't think this was a test of "open time" at all because the joints were closed right away. The term "working time" was used frequently throughout the video, and I think this was definitely a usable study for that, but not for open time.
Thumbs up! This really makes sense. Different manufacturers have different "open time", the best choice is using the adhesive according to the instruction. Aside from it, you might need to notice "working time" too if it mentioned in the instruction.
Elmers is your go to glue😂😂omg
It's my go to glue as well. It is stronger than the wood....and it dries clear. Also preferred by Frank Klaus.
Nice work Charlie I can appreciate all the work you put in to this video. Funny side note - my daughter uses the Elemer's glue to make slime. She has gone through at least 2 gallons of the stuff thank god its cheaper than the rest. Next video which glue makes the best slime?
Thanks Dan! When I was googling about different glues I saw a lot of posts about slime. I don't know much about it, but it seems to be a big deal!
Its bananas man all the kids are crazy for the stuff.
Thanks for the tutorial
Glad you liked it!
3M 18221 Carpenter's Wood Glue is by far the best
Thanks for the tip! I've never used the 3M wood glue. What do you like best about it?
3M got the strongest bond
Thanks!
Hi there! Thanks for the video! Id like to ask which one is strongest or are they similar?
Fine Woodworking magazine did a great test on glue strength. The bottom line is that all of these glues are strong enough for furniture and cabinet making.
Please use ear protection during future "destruction tests", so you can make more glue tests :)
Thanks for the reminder. I'm pretty good about hearing protection with machinery, but don't always think about it for other things.
Only fear things that are dangerous. Hitting a block of wood with a mallet is not dangerous to your hearing. Don't live in fear.
Thanks for this... entertaining and educational video... I think there needs to be more scientific study of glues saturation levels and clamping pressures... the data available from the glue companies doesn't seem to mimic real world applications.
Thanks Ray! I know that my tests were not scientific, but I agree that we should have more and better information about different glues.
Hi Charlie,
Very interesting tests! I was impressed with how well Elmers did. Maybe I can save some money in my shop. BTW, I have a veneering question - What do you use for a veneer softener? I have some older veneer that has become brittle and I know I can buy a commercial product, but I have also heard about mixing glycerin with water. Any thoughts?
HI Jim, Elmers is definitely less expensive and is seems to work really well. I've only used the commercial veneer softener, but there are a few different recipes for flattening veneer with glycerin. One that I have handy is 3 parts water, 1 part, glycerin, 1 part denatured alcohol, and two parts white glue. I think the glue is intended to help the veneer to remain flat. I would probably leave it out if I just wanted to soften it.
Thanks Charlie!
PVA has a shelf time, which is 12 months, the fresher the better. The same good glue will be not so good by the end of its shelf time. And after opening, the glue will become rapidly weaker within two to three months. It's frustrating that manufacturing dates on the container are coded, although for a good reason, they want you to buy it, even after 12 months from DOM !! For a job you highly care about, buy the freshest glue you can find, look for the letters in the Date of Manufacture, choose the one that has the letters that are last in the alphabet. Or, buy from a popular supplier a popular bottle size (I am doing this) as they presumably sell a lot of that size, so the glue does not get stored for too long.
Good info, thanks Hal.
I use gorilla wood glue😏
I like Gorilla wood glue when I need to put something together fast, like for a rub joint. I don't use it for regular joinery because it tacks up so quickly.
@@JackbenchWoodworking it does. But since i work fast with nails.( Ryobi nail gun) . I dont care about that . That much.
I liked tidebond. But i used gorrilla glue once and i aint going back
Sounds like it works well for you!
Scientists are also interested in real-world results, the only thing missing to make your test scientific is a control. Great video, thanks!
Thank You!
No Elmer's Carpenter Glue, or Gorilla Carpenter's Glue? Interesting test though. Thumbs up.
Thanks Rick!
He looks like my sister ex boyfriend. Lol smh
Your sister must have pretty good taste in men! LOL!! :)
i don't get it, working time usually means how long you have to make a minor re-position not repeatedly separating and putting it back together, that's what Velcro is for. i think most wood workers would agree that the most frustrating aspect of any wood working project is the down time wasted waiting for glue to dry. for me all wood glue drys to slow but with that said i use gorilla wood glue which has great immediate tacking power and short clamping time so i can get on with the project and get it done......
Thanks for the comment. The glossary on Titebond's website says this:
Working life: The period of time during which and adhesive..., remains suitable for use. This definition seems rather vague. Another definition that I've heard is the amount of time that the glue can sit before assembly. Honestly, I don't know if my test truly addressed the formal definition. The most common problem that I encounter is needing to re-position the work after it is partially assembled. Hence, my test.
The brown glue is blended with pee to liquify it?
Which brown glue are you referring to?
@@JackbenchWoodworking Urea is the main human waste product in urine, so K. M. is referring to Old Brown Glue and Titebond Hide Glue--hide glues that stay liquid at room temperature.
@@rbrtck Of course, that makes sense.
I think the bottom line of this whole test Charlie is you need more friends LOL! I for one appreciate you putting the time in on all the various testing you did very interesting and yes I watched to the end!
Thanks Opa. I really got sucked into this one. At first I was going to combine the working time test, the veneer test, and the lamination test in one video. I was barely able to get the working time into one video!
Good info. The results were quite interesting.
I was a bit surprised myself, thanks Dave!
First 4;30 is garbage just waffle. Interesting to note that all glues that were clamped actually failed in the destruction test.
The intro was a bit long, but I wanted to make sure everyone understood what I was doing. Good point about the test results.
I'll need to watch this in full later. I'm curious of the results.
Thanks Chad, I hope to do a follow up on the difference between "working time" and "open time.
That was a very interesting test, Charlie. Thanks for taking the time. I was quite surprised as you were, that the Titebond III having one of the lowest open times.
Thanks Steve, I think I will stick with the less expensive glues for routine joinery!
I hear ya.
I thought long working times is not a good thing
I think it depends on what you are working on. If I am trying to glue a complex piece together then I want a long working time. If I am just trying to put two pieces of wood together then it would be nice if they stuck together quickly.
I accept the idea of Jack Bench Woodworking, it really depends on what you are dealing with. If you are tacking patch to clothes, you'd better use embroidery spray adhesive: ruclips.net/video/F0-FOUjJdkM/видео.html
Nice job and patience. LOL! Watching glue dry....The results are interesting especially to po Folk,,,, It appears that some claims are not accurate I' was wonder about using the elmers when doing veneer work as a side bar. Of course it's easy to suggest and harder to do.
Well put, Tom: watching glue dry! I have always used white glue for veneer work and I know that Tom Schrunk uses it exclusively. It helps that it is only $11 a gallon!
Thanks for this testing and letting us know we don't have to spend lots of money for a great bonding glue.
Thanks, it was a happy surprise!
Great test, Charlie.
Thanks Cammie!
That was very unique test and one that we all kinda took for granted but the resaults are shocking. We all buy the titebond 2/3 for long set time . Their slogan is : Titebond - The Most Trusted Name in Adhesives. This test shows the opposite! I wonder what they have to say about this.
I'm glad you liked it, thanks!
Hope it helps.
Thanks very much for taking the time to do this! Is tb III the only "waterproof" glue in the bunch?
I am glad you liked it! TB II also has some water resistance, but TB III is the only one of these that claims to be waterproof.
Some interesting results there. The "tack" test was most interesting for me, I think. I'm less concerned with how long I have until the glue dries up and fails and I have to add more, than I am with how quick do I have to be before the glue gets so tacky that it gets difficult to work with, prior to failure, if that makes sense. Interesting video sir.
I'm glad you liked it, thanks!
Genuine test thankyou sir...
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!
Charlie you are back!!! Great to see it, Honest Charlie is back
Thanks Chuck, I really appreciate that.
Charley, test on which glue is best for wood split repair that you need to glue into .... PLEASE!
For wood that is split/cracked, but not in two pieces I usually work some white glue into the space and then clamp it down. I have also had good luck with thin CA glue. I always "try" to wedge a small piece of wood into the crack ahead of time to make it easier to get the glue into the space.
Why did you use Elmer's glue all and not the Elmer's wood glue.. I believe the results would be different and the wood in the destruction faze would not come a part so easy... but now Elmer's have change the formula to be more like Titebond.... Been using Elmer's wood glue for ever and it does thing the other glues can not do...... one, on the work bench mix a little with water and paint the top of the work bench now you have near undestructable top... you can hit with a hammer and no dent... I did not say beat it to death .... no splinters will come up and Titebond II will not do this as well..... plus the Elmer's wood glue, if the end of a piece of wood has splinter or parts lift up on ply wood and they glue in place easier....
Thanks for the info, Stan! I will have to get some of that. I tested as many different glues as I could.
Thank you for this test. ^_^
Thank YOU!
Thank you very much ....very interesting results although we are not drawing any conclusions wink wink lol
You seem a little to worried about hurting some company’s feelings doing a real strength test which is what most are more interested in! Gets your man pants on!
Thanks for watching. Not worried about anyone's feelings, especially the glue companies. Nobody sponsored this, or any of my videos. I spent about $70 on glue and the test took days to complete. Adding strength test would simply have been more time than I was willing to invest in a free video. Especially since Fine Woodworking already did a comprehensive strength test and determined that all of them are stronger than the wood. Please send me a link to the video when you to do a strength test because I would love to see it.
are you paid by Elmer glue? seems to me you are biased and your tests are far from scientific
Are you a scientist?
@@JackbenchWoodworking yes, sorry you did your best I suppose I should not be too fussy
Thanks, Jo. In all fairness, if I repeated this test, then I would probably do it a bit differently.
@goozle27 Probably the best glue for bent laminations is Unibond 800. The guys at Vacupress are the experts on this and they're happy to answer questions. Maybe shoot them an email or give them a call: www.vacupress.com/product/unibond-800-1-gallon-liquid-resin/
You didn't mention you have to be a member to download the Fine Woodworking info.
I was surprised about that, too. I downloaded the FWW article a while back and don't remember having to log in to get it. AFTER I completed the video and after I uploaded it to RUclips I discovered that they wanted you to be a member to access it. Try going to James King's website :)
What a waste of time and effort. Get a life.
Hide is superior to them all. The end.
Hide glue is great stuff, I have been using it more and more lately.
Charlie, you must be the most patient man in the world.
Hahahaha!! Yeah, I really got sucked into this one. I had no idea that some of them would take 50 minutes!
some surprising results there, i was surprised with the results for titebond 3 and i bet james at kings fine woodworking is crying in his glue lol, you know how much he luvs his titebond 3, looking forward to the rest of the test are you going to be testing proper hide glue as well not just the pre made stuff... many thanks scott
Hi Scott, I was pretty surprised by the Titebond III too. I really expected it to be one of the best ones. I'm not planning to actually test any hide glues just yet. I want to test the PVA glues with veneer and then run another test on bent laminations. Hide glue would be down the road a ways, if at all. Thanks!