BIRTH OF THE DRAGON - BRUCE LEE VS WONG JACK MAN
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- Опубликовано: 3 сен 2017
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Music:
Enter The Dragon OST - Main Theme (1973
While I’ve mentioned Leo Fong’s version of what led to the Oakland incident-namely, practitioner David Chin tricking and goading the two men into fighting-I’d like to give my opinion on the fight itself. There’s an account I read a long, long time ago that I find the most plausible and believable-and unfortunately I have zero recollection of the source-but it said that, yes, the battle only lasted a few minutes like Linda Lee says, and from the get-go Bruce kept charging in Wing Chun-style with flurries of straight-line punches (otherwise known as straight blasts), and Wong Jack Man kept stepping and angling out of the way, throwing wide, looping Northern-style counters. Unfortunately, neither man could gain an edge because their opposing systems were simply canceling each other out. Until, that is, Wong connected with a long-range backfist to the temple! Bruce, who was notorious at times for his explosive temper, basically then went berserk with a windmill of wild punches that forced his opponent to not only retreat but literally start running around the room-again matching Linda Lee’s story-until they eventually locked up, wrestled around sloppily, and ended up on the floor with Bruce on top, punching and yelling at Wong to give up, which he did. Thus, what may have started as a Shaw Brothers showdown devolved into something out of an old-school tough man contest or an early UFC match or, at worst, a cringeworthy playground fight.
The reason I gravitate toward this version is because 1) the time frame makes sense: The 20-minute version doesn’t fly with me given Lee’s aggressive, finish-a-fight-in-SECONDS approach, and the fact that both men were not seasoned grapplers willing to roll around on the floor all day. And 2) a fight where you throw all your training out the window? That’s sobering. Whoever gave the account said there was agreement Bruce had the edge in physical attributes like speed, but they were negated by the mismatch in fighting styles; then he got hit, went nuts, and “won.” NOT his finest hour, and certainly not the skilled, polished altercation either camp would go home bragging about. So the Little Dragon realized he needed more options in his martial arts toolbox; more control so he wouldn’t revert to some unsophisticated barroom brawler; more cardio because of how winded he got; and, most of all, he needed more ADAPTABILITY.
And that, in a nutshell, was the beginning of Jeet Kune Do…maybe. Memories of events being what they are, who knows? But like I said before, it’s fun as hell to talk about.
I can agree with that version, the book showdown in Oakland has something similar. The book by Matthew Polly has a certain view point that I hadn't considered before, wong jak man had some bracelets on and the way polly wrote it made it look like wong jak man cheated by hitting Lee in the head knowing full well that the bracelets would cause an injury. I find it interesting that Bruce changed his whole art, but he didn't get much instruction if any.
I actually agree with thus account
@@silverfoxsilverfox6932
Exactamente en el libro de Matthew Polly 👍🏻🙂👍🏻
This makes sense! Mr Wong should give his version though!
Well to put a positive spin on this,being a grand student of Bruce Lee's. I believed that both men walked away from that experience with Wisdom and saw it as a life lesson. I've heard various accounts of what happened even a third party who really instigated the fight between them.However this happened in 64 I wasn't born until 67 so clearly I wasn't there.Hopefully us grand students can just look at this situation too as a life lesson and move on.
Your mistaken Bruce did have the edge in that fight
I am 48, a martial artist for 30 plus years and I've had my ass kicked more times than I can count. Every time I questioned the fight, what I did wrong, what I could've done correct. It's amazing that after the fight with Wong, Bruce did the exact thing every fighter does. Adaptation and analysis! Does that mean he lost in my opinion? No, but it sure as heck didn't go as he had planned. I agree with your take and it really made me think what I've done after a defeat or close call. Good job young man.
Good job to you too Michael, the most martial artist-like comment on the video so far! :)
The notification tested my reaction speed
Jerry Biden different time zone
Linda Lee said Bruce Lee ended the fight with Wong jack man pinned down while Bruce Lee said, "do you give up" in Cantonese.
Bintshovel ruclips.net/video/EFpJunIltOY/видео.html
Bintshovel watch this.
Bintshovel you say NO THANKS to watching evidence after claiming she said something else.
Not exactly a black belt in research are you :p
Why believe a LIAR ? Linda is as believable as Hillary Clinton ! Linda plays the RACE card which is sad. Darren you must be a KID to make comments with no value ! Grow up and read. What you and Linda do is diminishing his legacy.
And Chinese Masters like WDM affiliates aren't liars. Dude I used to train in San Francisco and Oakland around some of those very Masters. The Kung Fu community there is extremely backwards. I used to get shit all the time for being white and they also dick measured about linage.
Bruce was not perfect by any means and I'm pretty critical of some things about Bruce that a lot of people get uncomfortable with but that community completely turned me off to Kung Fu at a point due to their politics and in general assholery :P
The way the fight was described by going to the ground sounds like a very realistic and typical fight that would happen. 80% of fights go to the ground and it would make a lot of sense give Bruce would go outside his style limitations his whole life while most of that Chinese community was heavily against cross training and more about preserving lineage of your style.
Was Bruce a pretty cocky jerk? OH YEAH! Even he admitted it.
A kid... yeah... right. :P
To understand who Bruce Lee was and how he evolved you need to understand what Jeet Kune Do is. The fighter that Bruce Lee was when he fought Wong Jack Man is not the same fighter that he would become. Jeet Kune Do does not bound the practitioner to a certain style and it is based on concepts which allows the practitioner to grow and develop his on way.
That's actually pretty accurate....I'm currently reading the tao of jeet kune do and I can tell....
Why did you call Bruce Lee a fighter? He was a fighter when he was young and when was in Hong Kong. When he was in America, he didn't get into that many fights. He claimed he was attacked by karate experts at airport in America, but the story wasn't confirmed.
jerry Last he was challenged by the Chinese community in China Town in San Francisco and had to fight Wong Jack Man for the right to teach who ever he wanted. The fight lasted 3 minutes according to accounts from people present during the encounter. During this fight he realized the traditional Martial art he had learned in Hong Kong didn’t work in all encounters and created Jeet Kune Do. Look at the documentary from enter the dragon he was challenged on set and according to witness accounts he mop the floor with the guy egging him on. Bruce lee doesn’t get the credit for being a fighter because he was an actor. People to try to discredit him or his ability because of his personality, he was confident and expressed it without fear case and point he challenged the established martial art community in America.
@@gmartinez5760 There is no need to watch any documentary! All documentaries are on one side. When did you hear JMW talk about the fight? His side of story was never heard. Did Bruce Lee accept the fight to fight publicly when WJW put the challenge letter on newspaper? Did the fight between JMW and Bruce Lee happen after the BL's demonstration in the theater? Did BL badly hurt JMW in the fight? Did JWM go to work the very next day?
I think you guys should do a "martial club " short film on this subject. Actually yea you should.....?
Drag1349 best idea
with Andy as Bruce Lee?
I'm not sure how true this is, since it was in a biography and not a first hand account as far as I know, but I read that Bruce won the fight but it was very sloppy and took several minutes, ending with Bruce basically exhausted and punching the back of Wong's head forcing him to yield. The author wrote that it was this event amongst other things that spurred Bruce onto really increase his physical fitness, since he felt he should have won in a few seconds rather than minutes
for me i believe in linda lee's statement. no one else.
but peoples recollection can often be inaccurate, I believe the fight lasted way over 3 mins.
There are people on Wong Jack Man’s side that say Bruce won. That’s all you really need
I think like Linda Lee said it happened really fast is the way it happened and insulted Wong Jacks Ego so bad that he wanted a rematch...maybe Bruce caught him off guard with his quickness which Wong Jack probably didn't expect and it just didn't go the way he thought it would. Bruce was also known for getting into a lot of street fights which is probably why he won and Wong Jack didn't know what he had coming for him.
Very interesting topic for a video! I think its important to realize that the people we admire etc. are just "normal" human beings too and not some kind of flawles, perfect god. Great lesson, guys :)
Edgar G##..As sifu Dan Inosanto says he doesn't respond to people who are negative or one sided concerning Bruce Lee or anything else for that matter because they will always come back with something and he doesn't have the time nor energy. I, you, many people were not there when Bruce Lee fought WJM. So we are left with books, stories, gossip, talk, and what we are told by so called witnesses. I have heard from Mrs. Linda Lee Caldwell like others in the room when the question came up about the famous fight. Not only hearing it from her but other people who were Lee,s students at the time and having come to know these people, I can trust what they say. Not only coz of that relationship but more so the man Bruce was and what he had become. A true martial artist. I for one believe he beat the guy but thats just me. People have a right to believe what they want and it doesn't mean we are all right.
I believe he won as well but it is clear to me the fight went the distance and that may have been a blow to Bruce's ego and perception of his superiority.
Hi MartialClub,i have been a Bruce Lee fan since the late 1970's,and have read about this fight and i remember that it was said that the fight was a tie at best.I have also heard it said that it was an eye opener for Bruce Lee and that Jeet kune do was born after that fight.I wish had looked more in Wong Jack Man all those years ago.I will say this Bruce Lee was like a god in my old neighborhood.You can't imagine what it was like in the 1970's.Not much was know about the Martial Arts.I have one request that we get good and honest film about Bruce Lee life with realistic fight scenes.
Well you talk TRUTH that Bruce Lee won or you can talk politics and make up what ever you want
Where is a source for these news articles?
The information you relay, is pretty much what I learned over the years. Years ago, when I didn't really know anything about Kung Fu, I was reading Bruce Lee books, and I Believed it at face value what Linda said about it. Generally, most people had never heard any other story about it, to even compare. The Jason Scott Lee movie, I took at face value too. I saw it in the theaters in the early nineties. Then many times later. It is an entertaining movie, but most of it is bullshit. Even to how Bruce hurt his back. Really; lifting weights. One thing that Wong jack Man had said later, after Bruce talked about beating a "kung fu cat" after they agreed not to talk about it publicly. Is he held back from doing any of the more damaging shaolin techniques, that could end up with him being deported or imprisoned for hurting or killing Bruce.
I didn't know that there had been early articles that Bruce lost, and that he went on record saying wong jack man's name. I had just heard that he had mentioned a "kung fu cat" and then Wong jack man responded to that, because people would know he was talking about him, and wong jack man relayed his story. I would say that outside of the local scene on it. The myth, globally, was started primarily by Linda Lee cadwell, when she had his books published after his death. She is the one that said Bruce beat wong in 2 minutes to demoralization. And that he quit wing chun, because 2 minutes is way too long to win a fight. And most people somehow believed that. It is almost a question against physics and huma nature, that someone would quit a fighting system, after winning a fight in 2 minutes. The Dragon movie perpetuates that even more.
Two individuals exploring their style of martial arts,,,, one lost and one won,,,,, but both individuals LEARNT something from each other,,, they did not boast who is the better,,,,,they were able to learn....
even Bruce Lee said on a interview that he once fought a kung fu cat in San Francisco and he started running away......
MVP why would you listen to him he’s the one who fought obviously he would want to win
@@urmumshubbylmao6498 because there is a greater chance to believe him then someone like you
i really love this channel and respect you guys for what you do. Keep up the good work !
Well Bruce Lee had a big ego. There are some histories with GM Ark Y Wong with him. You are right, he wasn't the first one to teach westerners, GM Ark Wong was. One of the stories besides his big ego in real life, was that he actually could kick high. And i remember another history that he wanted to rent a space to teach at GM Ark Wong school, but GM Ark Wong, declined...but...I remember pictures of Master Inosanto training with GM Ark Wong, so, i guess, after a while, everything was forgotten.
I would like Bruce Lee had spoken with honestly of what happened. He did too much damage, collateral damage, to GM Wong J Man reputation unfairly. So i guess was his big ego and wiliness to not lose face and win money what push him to lie.
I think Bruce's wife lied about the outcome of the fight!
I don't recall Bruce ever said he knocked out Jack Man Wong and said he won the fight. Bruce said he fought with this Chinese kung fu master whom he believed wasn't at his level.
In the old days, most kung fu masters didn't speak any English, how could they teach non-Chinese?
Chuck Norris wan't Bruce's student,. They only trained together and traded techniques. During that time, they practiced and went thru the drills.
Bruce lee was a legend and he was cocky and he backed it up
Bruce lee fought against wong and won the fight. Linda was there and she explained that fight. That was the real.
I've said this many times: She wasn't the only one there. And her story isn't the only one either. Don't listen to only one side.
@@silentgamer8592 I've read Matthew Polly's Biography of Bruce Lee where he spent 10 years of research and interviewed hundreds of people for the book and while it is true that Linda was not the only one with them, her version is one coming from truth.
@@brownwallet942 no shes biased af changing her story multiple times. Wong jack even went to print his own version and challenged bruce to a rematch. Wong also only had a scar above his eye no mention of bruises like linda said. Also youre naive too if you dont think linda is biased; she literally needs the bl foundation to survive and her daughter as well
i think your teacher's teacher's teacher's probably got twisted up like a Chinatown pretzel
I never thought I’d say this, but as a long time fan of martial arts history, this is some serious fake news. Smh.
Jeff Duarte I know right!
Yup Bruce Lee won fare in square...it wasn't easy for him because he even said that he felt out of shape basically it was more like real competition Bruce won because he found flaws in his art and wong art
Thanks for the video. I think it really helped me with the story. I also read Matthew Polly's version through Bruce's biography and it is pretty even handed too. Your points on the story are very good and I appreciate that.
"These old dragons have no teeth" Read Striking Distance by Charles Russo it's a really good book about Bruce Lee and his time in the Bay Area. In that book Russo talks about Bruce being commissioned to protect a Chinese starlet and also describes a slightly different variation of what was the catalyst for Bruce leaving an open challenge to any nay Sayers of the Chinese community. The book suggests that Wong Jackman's primary motivation for challenging Bruce was to leverage his victory against Bruce and open up a martial art studio of his own. Jackman was tired of working at a local restaurant and knew that if he was the one to defeat Bruce he would be the talk of the town. The author of the book seems thorough and doesn't paint Bruce in the best of light, he also interviewed everyone that was at the Wongman fight that is still alive and his final take away was the BRUCE WON.
It's not fair when people dismiss Bruce's martial arts ability by simply calling him an "actor". Actors don't take on challenge matches, actors don't create schools, actors aren't credited with being the first to teach Chinese martial arts to ALL races and WOMEN, actors don't train word champions such as (Joe Lewis, Chuck Norris), Actors don't create their own martial art that pulls from all arts, actors don't write volumes of fight books and philosophy, should I go on? C'mon dude Bruce was a bad motherfucker and it was his destiny to be THE ONE and there's nothing anyone can do about that. Traditionalists (old dragons) from the Chinese community were upset that Bruce's line of thinking was disrupting everything but if you look now Bruce was right. Throw a Kung Fu guy with no other skills against Might Mouse Johnson in the UFC and see what happens.
On point comment bro
Das it mane. Said it how it is.
You are a Devotee to Truth.You are expected to follow Truth to the best of your abilities.You are Expected to stand up and defend your Martial Family,especially your Sifu and his immediate family/heritage/lineage.Even if the whole world is against you,the Truth will set you free,we all hope sooner than later.I remember all this,when it came out,the rumours lasted for years.As much as i loved Bruce Lee i could not help but feel not right/good about him winning.But only the Truth knows.
Tony Escalante,Jr. Lai Hung Chinese Martial Arts Institute
Hi, could you help me? Someone know the name of the tai chi practitioner against Shifu Jack Wong Ma? Please
Great Job Daniel!!! Wish We could sit down and talk to our Great GrandMaster about everything. However, much like our GrandMaster, they have retired and it's hard to get them to talk about Kung Fu in general.
It was pure entertainment. Rest in peace to Sifu Jackman and the legendary Bruce Lee.
I think it would safe to say also the Wong Jak Man has been elevated as a Legend as well because of this.
No one will really ever know the truth because both sides say that they won. Unless some how it was filmed no way knowing 💯. This guy is just defending his si Fu is all but so do Bruce Lee's student that was there and Linda Lee who knows
I love wong jack man..it just when a man lose they except their defeat and if a man won he would proclaim his victory words of Bruce Lee..he wouldn't lie or say random speech.. he won but with a struggle. Wong had him probably beaten sort of speak but outside movie speaking truly Bruce won because I've taken wing chun boxing and it cover more area of combat than some of shaolin arts not all but few.. You have to understand that back in the early 15-17 hundreds century's I'm not specifically but women in the world of shaolin at that time or in martial arts ..women trained harder than men because they are naturally weaker...so for Bruce he trained harder but lack physical muscle at that time..
IP Man was nothing and could never compare with shaolin ,Wing chun sucks lol you ask me what is more popular hahahaha do you think its a popularity contest lol
James Anagnos Ip man? You're pushing it, like really pushing it
No when pushing gets to shoving , i do the shoving , i know the truth hurts lol
Bruce Lee was amazing for his time. His speed and power for his size were incredible. He achieved alot in his short life. You dont need to abuse people to make a point.
I know that this is two yrs old. and yes Bruce had to lose many fights just so he could polish and perfected his own style. but once he did no one even beat that version jkd. you guys like to hate on Bruce lee because it hurts you guys that Bruce lee said "ABSORB WHAT IS USEFULL AND DISCARD WHAT IS USELESS. yea you guys are amazing but don't forget that you guys are just stuntman that know fancy kung fu. in a real fight that is useless. you guys may be flexible and could do acrobatic stuff but Bruce not only he was flexible this guy was extremely fast even faster than Manny pacquiao or Floyd jr. faster than ali in foot work. he was the pioneer of mma the true fighting so stop hating please. I hope you respond. but I'm just saying facts tho
Bruce smashed wong
interesting thoughts and comments ! - thank you.
woah that side of the beginning of the story it is something i didn't know. great video keep it up !!!!
First of all this is very hot topic for Martial Arts community especially when their hero's reputation is in the table. I am a Bruce Lee fan since I was a kid and in Tekken I main Martial Law for more than 15 years already. I had also read all Bruce Lee books by John Little and Matthew Polly's biography of Bruce Lee where he spent 10 years making that book and interviewed hundreds of people who knew Bruce personally for his research. That being said I believe in Matthew Polly's version and in this video I think it remains truthful to what had really happened. I just want to correct, Bruce Lee's one inch punch did not fail on his demonstration. It was his act where he said he would touch the volunteer's forehead and asked the volunteer to try to stop it. He called two volunteers and the 2nd volunteer actually succeeded to block his attempt as that person was actually a martial arts practitioner. At that point also it should be mentioned that the crowd was already ecstatic and others ballistic by his performance as he was also exposing the impracticalities of the traditional kung fus while he was promoting his martial art and naturally provoked the traditionalists and the OGs of the art. The crowd jeered at him when he failed to touch the volunteer's forehead and so he did it the 2nd time when the volunteer was not aware and the crowd got heated. That is when he finished his program by saying that those who where interested to learn what he is talking about should visit his school.
The Chinese starlet 's name was Diana Chang Chung Wen; she died in 2019. When she went to SF Bay Area, where I've lived there for more than 30 years, she asked Bruce to be her bodyguard.
There are photo that Bruce and Diana took together.
From what I heard, a guy named Jack Wong drove Jack Man Wong and a few people to Oakland to challenge Bruce Lee. When they met, Jack Man Wong tried to shake Bruce's hand before the fight. Bruce faked a handshake and thrust a jab to JMW's eyes, then they started fighting. This fight could be a draw. I heard that Bruce went crazy, and people there stopped both of them worrying that the fight would be out of control. JMW didn't get hurt, and he went to work at Jackson cafe the very next day.
Bruce didn't win the fight. If he won, then why did he abandon his Wing Chun style after the fight? If he could beat WJM easily and in a very short time, then why didn't he accept WJM's challenge?
Real masters of the art understand that there are no winners, masters master themselves.
I still think Bruce Lee won.
But if the fight ended in the draw they both agreed to stop the fight, but one of them got to be the first one to recommend that they stop fighting, and to me Bruce Lee doesn't seem like a person to stop the fight his life was based on the martial arts and constant improvement in martal arts.
From what I've researched, the fight got really awkward really fast. I'm wondering if the "running around" story was true. And I agree with you about "no one wins every fight" with one exception to that logic being when learning from the experience.
Bruce Lee is a product. His family has to protect his image.
NOT PRODUCTIVE PRODUCTIONS Or duels to the death...
NOT PRODUCTIVE PRODUCTIONS the story of running around is true..wong could have our run Usain Bolt that day
Nice video brother! Everyone is entitled to their opinion. When examining this issue, there are so many emotions on both sides. Bruce Lee, in my opinion and my view, has more relevance as the man who made Asian action and kung fu movies acceptable in the West. For me his fighting skills are secondary. I prefer to debate about boxers who I can see (ex Muhammad Ali vs George Foreman) or fantasy match ups (Ali vs Tyson) based on footage that's available. But good job and I love you guys and your channel.
Brady Chin...Yes I saw that video too. My cousin was at this event too and told me when he asked that question ...he was breathing heavily (out of breath). From then on he started doing road work. That was the first time he ever had to chase someone. What is not revealed is that Wong Jack was wearing a cup when Bruce (my Sifu in 1960) kicked him in the groin...and it made a loud "Bok". That is what brought him down.
I've read and heard that the fight was largely uneventful and ended with Wong tripping, and Bruce pouncing on this and punching his face until the fight was stopped. Thus Bruce realized what he was practicing was largely ineffective, he only won via trip, and neither really won the fight in a fair way.
Well, Wong went to work the very next day, and nobody noticed any injury on his face except the scratch!
Great video! This is the kind of stuff I love. I hope you make more videos about martial arts history culture and things like that. More interesting than fight scene videos but I still like your fight scene videos.
But since you issued it, I challenge you to a fight! Let's do this publicly! If I win you give me a free Martial Club t-shirt. If you win I will buy a Martial Club t-shirt. What do you think?
There is so many versions, but the first version is somewhat correct. The reason for the fight wasn't because Bruce was teaching non-Asians, but it was because Bruce had a brash personality. During a Bruce Lee martial arts demonstration, Bruce had already berated traditional martial arts as being useless in a real street fight. This pissed off many of the audience members who were practiced classical styles of kung-fu. Therefore, they started throwing cigarette butts onto the stage in rebuke to what he had said. Bruce becoming flustered of this disrespect, then asks for a volunteer to come onto the stage for a martial art demo ( Bruce would attempt to touch the volunteers forehead by closing the distance, timing and his speed). Amazingly, Bruce closed the distance and utilizing his speed failed to touch the volunteers forehead due to a block. The audience laughed at Bruce. Bruce having a brash personality, told the audience something to the effect of "you know where you can find me". This was viewed as an open challenge.
Thank you for this video. I had always heard the Bruce Lee won and the fight was over his right to teach slant.
I tell y'all one thing and I'm done with it i wanted to be Bruce. If it's a Kun Fu hustle i didn't care then and i don't care now. I still want to be Bruce Lee. It's the love y'all period.
The comparison I’d make to this statement is Rocky 4, Rocky A Man Of The Past And Drago A Man Of The Future. The Boxing Match Was Made During War Times Between America And Russia kinda like this fight with Wong Jack Man and Bruce Lee
Wong A Man Of The Past And Bruce Lee A Man Of The Future
No one wins every fight. Miyamoto Musashi. The only fight he didn't win was a tie. Apparently with a guy using a stick. :)
I guess you could say he was. . . In a sticky situation :D
Great vid guys
Xrandomex There was no tie, it was to the death. Undefeated. And Musashi used "sticks" too, they are called bokken.
no pun intended
Actually Musashi almost exclusively used a wooden sword. He was famous for killing opponents with steel swords.
There are also reports by some witnesses that say WJM ran / back peddled keeping his distance from Bruce. Also there is an audio tape where Bruce refers to WJM as the runner .
A serious fight (not a sport competition) with no holds barred lasted 20 minutes? Ridiculous!
This little guy was quoting heavily on one-sided biased article written by one of Won'g disciple.
Hi, also a Bak Sil Lam brother. Very reasonable video. You really try put things in perspective and with good research. In the same topic, about Bruce and GrandMaster Wong Jack Man, there is something about teaching martial arts that i would like to ask your opinion. Here in Brazil, to teach ,you must have at last 10 years of training, and even, it is said by Grand Master Chan Kwok Wai, that even this is not enough. And learning the forms is only from a certified teacher, I could not learn from a friend who is more advance. I saw Dan Inosanto saying(in a video) that Bruce ask to advance students to teach him the forms, not wanting to wait 10 years of training to learn them. So do you thing that this put some strain on the relations it more traditional martial artist like Wong Jack Man?
You have to understand what form really is??? Doing forms alone will get you beat in real fight.
Sparring is the only way to go!
Form has a lot of techniques in it. You have to understand how to apply the techniques and apply them in real life situations!
I agree with you mate.
Will never really know both sides have different stories.Just saw a video were they tell a completely different version. It's just who you want to believe.
Everyone that was there said Bruce won fairly easily lol
With respect, only Wong thought that he did not lose the fight. No one agrees on the time of the fight but all agreed Bruce Lee did win in a well fought fight between masters
. That does not mean Wong or his style sucked but he was against a innovative genius and so he lost. No shame there just a fact established far before you were born.
A fight isn't over until someone say they submit.
According to history Wong submitted to defeat, whether they didn't finish the fight or not.
I appreciate you taking the time to share your theory. It's shows that you care. Before I say more, do you have a source for a hard copy of the Rick Wing book you've mentioned. I've found a kindle edition, but am only interested in either a soft cover or hard cover edition. Having potentially found the book, I would actually be interested to read it. In my opinion, It does seem that because of your biased, the theory is somewhat compromised. The only way to find the truth in most cases is to not have a vested interest in either outcome, to not look for a particular outcome. Otherwise, you'll see what you want to see. I have heard information that suggests otherwise. There is the account of Linda Lee, which is actually independently validated by what Bruce Lee's first student recalled Bruce Lee telling him over the phone after it happened. Having said that, I don't have a dog in the fight, it happened 50 years ago, and had little impact on what is happening today. Ego's aside, it might be interesting history, but without knowing the absolute truth, and little possibility for knowing the truth, the matter will simply be unresolved. Therefore there is only speculation, from which the motives for opinion must be examined. Thanks for the video, please let me know if you have information regarding the book. 🙏
I agree with this video.
What is your style good for? Wing chun is for fighting in a phone booth. What does your style speacialize in?
Have you Not watched the Linda Lee video? If you say yes, then why would you fully dispute what she stated happened? Watch Linda Lees video stating what happened. Its on RUclips & fairly easily accessable.
I just rented BotD, haven't watched it yet but why all the hate for Lee? He did a lot for martial arts, a past president of MMA said he was the grandfather of MMA. Yes Linda and Shannon do try to control Lee's image as they are his family, would anyone want people to talk smack about their father?
This fight was 50 odd years ago, and people can forget things, say things that could stretch the truth as memory fades.
We know that there was a fight, it lasted about three minutes. We know from several friends and family that were there or had been told after the fact what happened that day. Whose account is true, whose is false? I'd tend to believe Lee's friends/family before some third party wrote a book claiming to have the real story.
Lee was confident, not cocky as some people may say, confident enough where well known people would train under him, knew him. So why would people that don't have a stake in the Lee estate, image and so on always tell the same story that Lee won, went back to teaching and gave JKD to the world if it wasn't true?
I watched the show warrior and The showdown between the two fighters led me to this video right now
I am a Bruce Lee fan but it took a long time to realize that he was just a really hard-working & successful guy. Everything else is idealization while filling in the blanks.
I never met him and only have access to stories about him that everyone else has access to. At this point it's just interpretation of those stories, opinions.
People who idealize Bruce Lee remind me of people who just can't (CAN'T) accept or understand the fact that Sylvester Stallone is (again) merely a hard-working & successful guy and an actor / writer / director / public figure but isn't actually a former heavyweight boxer even though the Rocky movies so firmly (but fictitiously) portray him as such.
Film, media, publicity, and repetition can do wonders on the masses' perceptions.
1128ca Mbq DO YOUR RESEARCH. Bruce Lee trained world martial arts champions like Chuck Norris. I even saw Bruce's training for Chuck written down on paper. Anyways, lots of world champions that alive when Bruce Lee was around today say that Bruce Lee could take them down. Chuck Norris himself who was the reigning world Champion said that Bruce Lee was undeafetable. World Karate Champion Jim Kelly said before he passed away that Bruce Lee was untouchable. That video interview is on youtube by the way.
1128ca Mbq Bruce Lee is a fraud.
Scott Tranchitella I just saw another youtube video in with witnesses who said that Bruce Lee kicked Chuck Norris' ass and that's why Chuck Norris then asked Bruce Lee to train him. BY THE WAY, CHUCK NORRIS WAS THE WORLD CHAMPION YOU MORON. What are you going to say next, that Michael Jordan was a crappy basketball player. There's a whole lot of proof that points to Bruce Lee being the greatest martial artist of all time, if you get off your lazy ass and do some research about PROVEN FACTS. Dumb ass.
Name calling is childish. What is your style and rank? Because if you have any experience in martial arts, you would know that evidence is king aka Stephen Sagal. Bruce Lee was awesome, just not the best. Look into his training history and you will see he holds no true rank in any style but his own
1128ca Mbq 9 world records he knew there would be na sayers. So work hard as you want nobody is doing1500 pushups. That's just one of his records.
I'm a Bruce Lee follower and I also liked the video. Obviously I wasn't there, but this makes lots of sense in my opinion... Good video.
The "clear winner" was Bruce Lee. End of discussion.
The fight was before Bruce created JKD! Why did he create JKD if he could demolish JMW so easily?
After the fight with JMW, Bruce realized the limitation of Wing Chun. Then he altered the way he trained , and he learned some other styles to complement his Wing Chun.
My son told me about this video and another one like it a few hours ago and I didn't believe him. I am shocked people are still talking about this. My father was there for that fight in California. He said no humans fought that day but Two God's in human flesh did. They didn't mind tearing the flesh to prove their point to each other either. He said It was loud, fast, violent, wild and never seen before by American eyes.The fight scared my dad and he fears nothing even as an old man. I know the real truth about Bruce and Wong. Out of respect for both party's I'll keep people guessing. I still can't believe no one went to jail over this fought that's crazy. I will say the real winner is us the people. Bruce became a legendary fighter, teacher, actor and left us two JKD schools in California. Wong became a legend in his own right and a legendary teacher in Northern Shaolin Kung Fu. He too left us with a school in California. That's one hell of a win on both sides 👊
What a cliff hanger man. Uncool. Lol
Professor Lau Bun, the true Kung Fu Pioneer of Kung Fu and Choy Lee Fut in America and his hung sing kwoon also had run ins with bruce lee that are rarely ever discussed. some of them were published already tho
It's amusing to see a kid talk about what he believes happened in history when he wasn't there. I wasn't there either but there are people that are still alive today telling you what happened. And he's like nope I don't care about eyewitness accounts or facts this is what happened I'm not listening. It's like listening to a politician.
You can't say you lose if you gain something from that experience I guess. Just sayin'.
i understand your gonna defend Wong Jack Ming. he too study northern shaolin. and i know your sifu is some what a descendant of the northern shaolin style
which is a very interested style of martial arts. Bruce Lee a student of the late Ip Man who was a master in Wing Chun. My Opinion is they both are very talented Martial Artist. does it really matter who won. to me i look at it like this. its all about facts. if i wasnt there to see who won i would call it a draw. or i just really do care who won. I to am a martial artist in which i study the Art of Hawaiian Lua.. for over 15yrs. Martial Arts is not about which technic is better then the other. its about Discipline becoming one with your inner being.
Enlightment.. Overcoming your weakness. meditation. yes Bruce Lee was a hot head but you got to admitt he was a badass hot head. sifu Wong i dont know to much about him to say anything bad. and thats not my style. but i would like to learn more about him just as much as i learned alot about Bruce Lee. So with that being said. keep up the good work MartialClub. You should do a segment about the 36 Chambers of death
Bruce Lee only learned up to the second form of Wing Chun! He didn't know all the wooden dummy techniques, and he wanted to pay Ip Man to learn the complete set of wooden dummy technique, but Ip Man refused.
Let's put it like this, Bruce Lee didn't graduate from Wing Chun system! He didn't know any weapon set in Wing Chun. Everybody in the Wing chun family knew about this.
jerry Last yep I know more than what Bruce did.
I've completed the Wing Chun system. As have many others.
you know i wouldnt mind learning wing chun. and also wushu..
But you are most likely not better at it haha.. Just knowing the technique doesn't make you good. Lots of people get the whole system in under 2 years but they suck. Bruce Lee got classes by Wong Sheung leung and probally went there a lot as well. They also said he was a very quick learner in martial arts. No discrespect to u*
Rome wasn't built in a day!
The third set of Wing Chun has some advance techniques. I don't doubt Bruce Lee was a quick learner.
If Bruce knew the whole system of Wing Chun, then why some old timers of Wing Chun said he only learned up to second set? Did Bruce know butterfly knives and pole? Why did Bruce try to pay Ip Man for the wooden dummy techniques? Did you see Bruce show off his advance WC techniques in movies?
Why didn't Bruce Lee accept Wong's challenge the second time? No rematch!
I need birth of the dragon download link
Floyd have won all of hes fights. What con u say about that?
I don't know either where the truth lies exactly. But I welcome this video because the analysis is credible. For the first time, my mind accept the possibility that Bruce Lee was not the invincible warrior imposed by his cinematographic image. I never realized how much I was influenced by my childhood beliefs. And I begin to see the human dimension of this martial Artist genius called Bruce Lee (and genius he was for facts we don't really see in his movies.) And I am discovering the great master Wong Jack Man is. This explanation put in light many details I was questioning for many months, with their solutions. Thanks Martial Club. From now on, I agree with this version. For now. :-)
It says something that Mr. Wong JackMan was willing to fight Bruce Lee in a public match - wish that did happen. I love Bruce Lee but everything I've read he was talented - but cocky and arrogant at times - reminds me of one of my friends - talented individual but a bit of an ego and can be short tempered at times (not all the time but enough where u noticed.)
I had a conversation with a former co-worker who's training at a Sanshou club connected to Cung Le, who she said has a connection with Wong Jack Man. Anyway, in talking about the Oakland fight, she said she was surprised it happened at all because, from what she could gather, neither Bruce nor Wong were "jerks," and yet each side almost always claims rudeness and disrespect from the other. I told her the only version I've heard that explains BOTH sides-and I've heard many, many versions-is from Bruce's martial arts buddy Leo Fong, who lays the blame of the fight squarely on the shoulders of David Chin, an associate of Wong's who also trained with Bruce in Oakland, is often mentioned in accounts of the fight, and who, according to Fong, just really wanted to see two highly skilled kung fu cats throw down. To that end, Chin started going to each fighter and stirring shit up: "Hey, Bruce, Wong Jack Man and the Chinatown sifus say you're a brash, young punk who shouldn't be teaching white dudes!" "WHAT?" "Hey, Wong, Bruce Lee says the whole kung fu community is a walking classical mess that wouldn't last two seconds in a real fight!" "WHAT?" In fact, Fong goes on to say that when Bruce figured out he'd basically been manipulated into a needless fight, he wanted to go after David Chin! Chin's disciples, of course, take issue with this story and-as is the way of these things-have supposedly challenged Fong, now in his eighties, to a fight of honor, but...who knows what the truth really is? It's all part of the legend of Mr. Lee and, as we all know, it's fun as hell to talk about.
And before I go, here’s a clip of Leo Fong’s account: ruclips.net/video/Xwd3b8xi6Pk/видео.html
Jeez chatter box like if your in 2022
Ask Lynda lee, she was there when Bruce lee fight Wong jackman. She said Bruce is won on that fight.
Okay! Has Mr Wong told his side of the fight officially on camera! Also Mrs Lee around the has said Bruce was chasing Mr Wong around! For nothing I don't think we will never find out the truth! Mr Wong step up the plate! 😊
Unless there is film footage of the fight, then the witness accounts are tinged by a bias towards either fighter...so you will never have the definitive truth especially after 56 years....but I must admit seeing photos of Wong si-fu I don't believe the story, from Linda Lee, that he turned and ran when the fight started
Even Wong had won it wouldn't make difference because Lee was already working on Jeet kune do and he was much more discipline for methods fighting tactics, he wasn't kidding around Lee master ip man even said that Bruce can kill a man with palm or fist. Ip man said this 1yrs before he pass in a rare interview Bruce had camera men's who came to visit him in his sifu place in year 72' Lee wasn't really that cocky as movie portrait him he was Humble a Tao priest sort of speak.
Bruce kicked his ass but didnt want to boast as it would have started a fight between the families
the one inch punch thing i can't believe. No one can miss a one inch punch no one sounds lik he is trying to discredit Buce every chance he gets whether he admits it or not.
Though I believed there was no clear winner in the fight, I do not believe strongly on Rick Wing version of things because first and foremost he was a student of Wong Jackman so he is protecting a legacy and 2nd, he avoided Matthew Polly's interview about the incident. So I regard Matthew Polly's version of the fight as difinitive as he interviewed not just Linda but all other witnesses of the fight.
Wow great report ... seriously. A few short years back ? I dabbled in Wing chun myself. In fact ? My teachers teacher who lives in S. California? Was childhood friends with the late BL. The story regarding Lee's studies of Yip Man school of Wing chun in HK. China ? Was that Lee never completed his teachings or lessons at the school. In fact ? There is a entire level or segment of leg techniques in WC . Yes Lee did do some leg techniques in a movie of his but if one follows Lee ? And yet truly watches or more so ? Has studied in Kung fu ? Then you know there is several leg techniques in both Northern and Southern Kung fu. But mostly in the Southern style of the art . In close i also years back studied in Kenpo which by many has roots to the five animals of Kung fu. And yet there is a strong influence also of the Okinawa Karate system or style. There are in my personal view many hand techniques in Kenpo that has veey close similar hand strikes to that ? Of the Chinese Kung fu art itself. I would encourage many to go look up ? The late Master Ed Parker and some of his early Black belts in the IKKA art both Wing chun and Kenpo though they have differences? They also have strong similarities.
How come there aren't many resources or videos on Wong Jack Man. I'm interested to learn more about Wong Jack Man
He retired! He taught Northern Shaolin style and he knew many weapon forms. Whereas Bruce Lee only knew Nunchuk and short sticks. Bruce's JKD has no weapon!
What about Southern Shaolin Style? I'm curious about this style..
So many explanations Linda Lee witnessed that fight and it didn't even last 1 minute😂 Bruce Lee simply beat Wong Jak Man that's it.
Was Linda Lee witnessing this fight? Because It was said by peeps who were there that, she was there. And she discribed what had happened at the end of that fight and I beleive Linda. When you said that a friend of a friend, of a friend told you this there is no credabilty to what you say is true. And saying Bruce messed up his One Inch power punch and he looked like a fool? What the heck does that have to do with the their fight? I'll wait for the dvd to watch this. Thanks.
The Question is: If Wong Jack Man beat Bruce Lee , wouldn't that mean Bruce lost his rights to teach non chinese? because that was the fight was about between Bruce and Wong Jack Man right? and JKD wouldn't prosper.
Well his wife was there you omitted her from the. Film
Birth of the Dragon was a great movie....but damn did they make Bruce seem so cocky in comparison to Wan Jack Man.
End of the day only the people that was there on the day will know what happend which where more of Lee students etc which will stand by him
Too bad he was not at the party of Sharon Tate and Jay Sebring (his hair stylist for acting), none of those killings by C. Manson would have occurred. That was somewhat ..his hooey; but he had family responsibilities to attend to.
like the content I would have loved to witnessed that fight! I fear we will never know the complete truth as none of us were there and Linda's account is one of potential bias as Bruce was her husband so I am of the opinion that both of these men were highly skilled and undoubtedly among the most elite martial artist's ever!!! I agree with the young man in this video when he states that Kung fu in any style is far more about personal growth and self defense than who is better than someone else. I feel that raising ones awareness of ones self while experiencing thier journey to liberation!!!!
I thought it was clear Bruce won but felt the fight took too long. bruce let Jack man know he was willing to do anything just by jabbing his eye after some exchange Jack man ran to tire bruce but truth was he coudnt handle him.
So sifu rick wing is a disciple of Wong jack man?
Yes, he is
L-O-N-G-story short; Mr. Wong was already A Established MASTER, & Mr. Lee still had a-few years to-go before he Became A MASTER, Bruce was still a-puppy When Fight With Mr. Wong.
are there links to those articles you mention? and what is your opinion about Bruce's wife Linda, who says she was there, and it was pretty much a Lee victory. She said Bruce had to chase him around the room and Wong tripped and Lee was able to grab him and make him give up. Also, your claiming that the whole "you cant teach foreigners Chinese Martial Arts" story is all bull? The issue I have heard was it was the Chinese Community there was upset, of course Karate was being taught at that time to Westerns. Anyhow, We wont know the truth, but just curious to know, where did you see these articles, and if you can point them out or send a link.
Maybe less music in background. Peace out.