@@redeemedzoomer6053 Both views understand the growing of the Kingdom towards some form of universal establishment. Generally the Postmil has a more literal (though not completely literal) understanding of the Kingdom before Christ returns. For a set period of time there is a “Golden Age” we are working towards. Those passages that describe all the world knowing the Lord or the nations beating their weapons into tools for cultivation describe a world changed by the gospel so much that the institutional earthly powers submit to Christ. From the Amil perspective, that seems to be a bit of an over-realized eschatology. Those passages describe the New Heavens and New Earth. While the Kingdom is growing to reach that realization, it won’t happen as the prophets describe it until Christ returns and the Kingdom is consummated. That’s my quick description. I’m thinking to eventually make an eschatology video that goes into more detail.
@RevDonBaker, this is the single best way I think I've ever heard the amil view articulated. I was raised dispensational pre mil and now I hold to amil.
@@douglasboylan3477 The claim is that because belief in the God of Abraham seems to depend on geographical location, it’s arbitrary and probably untrue. This video shows that it’s consistent with what Jesus said would happen. If I say, “I’m going to pour this water slowly into this cup until it’s all full” and someone says, “You’ve filled 3/4s of the cup but there’s still empty space” while it’s still being poured, would that not be a misunderstanding? You’ve pointed out no inconsistency between what I said would happen and what’s happening. Likewise, Jesus and the prophecies he fulfills say the world will slowly be filled with faith in the God of Scripture (when it was previously empty of it) but that that filling would be slow. Just because there are areas that haven’t been filled yet, doesn’t mean there’s inconsistency. What would the actual concern be?
@@RevDonBaker You don't strike me as a universalist, so I'm going to take that as a "no, a good Buddhist will not go to heaven". If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me. Would you not also believe that god wants all of his creation to believe in him? Or at the very least, that he loves the whole world and all it's inhabitants? If god truly loves us, and wants as many to join him in paradise as possible, why would he not appear to the entire world? Why did he only appear to the jews 4,000 ish years ago? If god truly cared for all of us, would he not give everyone an equal opportunity to be saved? Why did he damn billions to eternal hellfire by his silence? To this day a full 2 MILLENIA after Christ's appearance middle eastern and Asian countries are disproportionately non Christian. Does god just not love them enough to make sure they heard his word in a timely manner? Or are their hearts being hardened so as to not allow belief? In Roman's 1:19-20 we hear how god has made himself known to everyone through creation. Yet not ONCE has yahweh worship arisen independent of Christian influence. To sum it up, if god were real, and if he truly loved all of us, what would we expect to see across the worlds religions? I argue that we would have two. Followers and Deniers. We would NOT expect to see hundreds of religions across time and billions of people living and dying without hearing a SINGLE word about the god that supposedly loves them.
@@RevDonBaker I think you took Alex's criticism as if he were a believer. This response feels very much like one where you don't have to defend the "goodness" of god, only his methods. However, this critique is aimed at the very "goodness" of god.
Woo!! I find myself leaning that way too. I would love to be postmil. Unfortunately, I look at world and church history and just can't seem to heh. Also, more importantly, I think the totality of Scripture paints a different picture.
Question, if you have time... do you find H. Ridderbos helpful in understanding the nature of the kingdom? I really appreciate the apologetic value in this! Great presentation, not only to answer objections, but positively present the gospel.
@@dvd1989 Yes! I plan on one day making a video on the concept of inaugurated eschatology. And so men like Ridderbos and Vos were great in bringing that out and connecting biblical theology to eschatology.
@@JaRoD73 Only the ones I brought from my personal bookshelf haha This office is shared by the elders on the Korean side as well and contains books from past elders who have moved back to their countries.
Optimistic Amillennial or Contemporary Postmillenial... Which is the exact same thing with maybe some nuance about how governments are to be handled. Both believe the millennium is spiritual, always growing, and happening right now; and that Christ is currently reigning over heaven and earth to be fully consummated on judgment day.
There it is. Heavily optimistic Amil. I don’t need Christian governments or even Christian majority in every nation. However, the gospel will take root in every nation and people.
Sorry my view as a Christian is you don't answer the question satisfactorily- there is no adequate answer as to why its Christianity in certain cultures and Islam/Judaism or the oriental religions in there dominant areas, as Melanchthon observed in the 1500s its entirely an accident of birth!
The Lord uses his Divine Will to decide where each person will be born, it is not an accident of birth or by chance. Our God is fair and has reasons above our understanding for why some people are/n't born in Chrisitan countries. It is also important to note that not all countries that are majority today were always Christian, it changes with the years. For example Scotland used to be a very Chrisitian country only 50 years ago but now it is not. The Lord gives us free will to decide whether we will follow Him or not, each country has the chance. It would appear that the Lord has blessed the Nations that follow him devoutly. I am sure however that the Lord is fair and watches over everyone and will give everyone the opportunity to follow Him and takes into account each person's circumstances. God Bless you friend
@@AlanMordue-hx5wv The focus of this video is show that certain nations reacting more positively to the gospel than others is still consistent with the Bible’s prophecies of human history. Concerning the eastern religions, I’d say their time is limited. Hinduism and Buddhism which can barely make it out of their cultural boarders will eventually go the way of every other pagan religion that we’ve already forgotten about. Concerning things like Islam and Judaism, Christian heresies such as Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Islam, I do believe these may have lasting stay until Christ returns as they are false representations of the Kingdom of God. Concerning Judaism, I take the position that the Jewish people as a whole will one day recognize Jesus as the Messiah before Christ returns. After all the unnatural branches are grafted in, the natural branch will be re-grafted in and so all Israel will be saved.
An accident of birth? Or God keeping his promise to be God to our children, and bless those who are faithful to him to a thousand generations? God has always and continues to work in covenants/families.
Right at the line between optimistic Amil and Postmil. I believe that when Christ returns there will be Christians in every nations and people to inherit the New Heavens and New Earth. However even at that time there may be strong and even institutional enemies to be finally destroyed.
@@paulwoodhouse3386 We probably have similar backgrounds. I grew up Independent Fundamental Baptist so in those circles Dispensational Premillennialism is the ONLY way to go in most circles.
Wake up, Rev. Don Baker posted!
Rz just turned into a bot account 💀
What you're saying SOUNDS postmil, but given how you framed the question, I'm guessing it might be amil
That’s it! Heavily optimistic Amil
@@RevDonBaker based! me too. what would you say is the DIFFERENCE between that and postmil?
@@redeemedzoomer6053 Both views understand the growing of the Kingdom towards some form of universal establishment. Generally the Postmil has a more literal (though not completely literal) understanding of the Kingdom before Christ returns. For a set period of time there is a “Golden Age” we are working towards. Those passages that describe all the world knowing the Lord or the nations beating their weapons into tools for cultivation describe a world changed by the gospel so much that the institutional earthly powers submit to Christ. From the Amil perspective, that seems to be a bit of an over-realized eschatology. Those passages describe the New Heavens and New Earth. While the Kingdom is growing to reach that realization, it won’t happen as the prophets describe it until Christ returns and the Kingdom is consummated.
That’s my quick description. I’m thinking to eventually make an eschatology video that goes into more detail.
@RevDonBaker, this is the single best way I think I've ever heard the amil view articulated. I was raised dispensational pre mil and now I hold to amil.
@@1988casco That was my upbringing as well!
I'm impressed with how little you attempt to address an atheists actual concerns here
@@douglasboylan3477 The claim is that because belief in the God of Abraham seems to depend on geographical location, it’s arbitrary and probably untrue. This video shows that it’s consistent with what Jesus said would happen. If I say, “I’m going to pour this water slowly into this cup until it’s all full” and someone says, “You’ve filled 3/4s of the cup but there’s still empty space” while it’s still being poured, would that not be a misunderstanding? You’ve pointed out no inconsistency between what I said would happen and what’s happening. Likewise, Jesus and the prophecies he fulfills say the world will slowly be filled with faith in the God of Scripture (when it was previously empty of it) but that that filling would be slow. Just because there are areas that haven’t been filled yet, doesn’t mean there’s inconsistency.
What would the actual concern be?
@RevDonBaker alright, let's break this down. Do you believe a Buddhist will go to heaven?
@@douglasboylan3477 No, but I’m interested in where this is going.
@@RevDonBaker You don't strike me as a universalist, so I'm going to take that as a "no, a good Buddhist will not go to heaven". If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me.
Would you not also believe that god wants all of his creation to believe in him? Or at the very least, that he loves the whole world and all it's inhabitants?
If god truly loves us, and wants as many to join him in paradise as possible, why would he not appear to the entire world? Why did he only appear to the jews 4,000 ish years ago? If god truly cared for all of us, would he not give everyone an equal opportunity to be saved? Why did he damn billions to eternal hellfire by his silence? To this day a full 2 MILLENIA after Christ's appearance middle eastern and Asian countries are disproportionately non Christian. Does god just not love them enough to make sure they heard his word in a timely manner? Or are their hearts being hardened so as to not allow belief?
In Roman's 1:19-20 we hear how god has made himself known to everyone through creation. Yet not ONCE has yahweh worship arisen independent of Christian influence.
To sum it up, if god were real, and if he truly loved all of us, what would we expect to see across the worlds religions? I argue that we would have two. Followers and Deniers. We would NOT expect to see hundreds of religions across time and billions of people living and dying without hearing a SINGLE word about the god that supposedly loves them.
@@RevDonBaker I think you took Alex's criticism as if he were a believer. This response feels very much like one where you don't have to defend the "goodness" of god, only his methods.
However, this critique is aimed at the very "goodness" of god.
I'm going to guess optimistic amillenial.
Yup!
Woo!! I find myself leaning that way too.
I would love to be postmil. Unfortunately, I look at world and church history and just can't seem to heh.
Also, more importantly, I think the totality of Scripture paints a different picture.
I saw the title and automatically thought, "What actual atheist would ask that type of question?"
I haven’t even finished watching the video yet, but I will drop my prediction early: Rev. Don is an Amillenial!
@smallerhitboxx_spam Bingo
This is awesome.
I’m assuming Optimistic AMil, but historic PreMil would go CRAZY
@@DextonTeat That’s the one! (Optimistic Amil that is)
Question, if you have time... do you find H. Ridderbos helpful in understanding the nature of the kingdom?
I really appreciate the apologetic value in this! Great presentation, not only to answer objections, but positively present the gospel.
@@dvd1989 Yes! I plan on one day making a video on the concept of inaugurated eschatology. And so men like Ridderbos and Vos were great in bringing that out and connecting biblical theology to eschatology.
Wonderful. Thank you!
Did you read every book in that bookshelf?
@@JaRoD73 Only the ones I brought from my personal bookshelf haha This office is shared by the elders on the Korean side as well and contains books from past elders who have moved back to their countries.
Definitely Full preterist.... Just Joking! 😉 I already saw that you were optimistic Amil.
Most likely amillenial?
Yep!
29:53 convinced me that you’re post-mil.
At that section I was referring to the New Heavens and New Earth which is why it comes to 100%. While I’m very optimistic, I’m still Amil
Optimistic Amillennial or Contemporary Postmillenial... Which is the exact same thing with maybe some nuance about how governments are to be handled.
Both believe the millennium is spiritual, always growing, and happening right now; and that Christ is currently reigning over heaven and earth to be fully consummated on judgment day.
There it is. Heavily optimistic Amil. I don’t need Christian governments or even Christian majority in every nation. However, the gospel will take root in every nation and people.
🥇
Sorry my view as a Christian is you don't answer the question satisfactorily- there is no adequate answer as to why its Christianity in certain cultures and Islam/Judaism or the oriental religions in there dominant areas, as Melanchthon observed in the 1500s its entirely an accident of birth!
The Lord uses his Divine Will to decide where each person will be born, it is not an accident of birth or by chance. Our God is fair and has reasons above our understanding for why some people are/n't born in Chrisitan countries. It is also important to note that not all countries that are majority today were always Christian, it changes with the years. For example Scotland used to be a very Chrisitian country only 50 years ago but now it is not. The Lord gives us free will to decide whether we will follow Him or not, each country has the chance. It would appear that the Lord has blessed the Nations that follow him devoutly. I am sure however that the Lord is fair and watches over everyone and will give everyone the opportunity to follow Him and takes into account each person's circumstances. God Bless you friend
@@AlanMordue-hx5wv The focus of this video is show that certain nations reacting more positively to the gospel than others is still consistent with the Bible’s prophecies of human history. Concerning the eastern religions, I’d say their time is limited. Hinduism and Buddhism which can barely make it out of their cultural boarders will eventually go the way of every other pagan religion that we’ve already forgotten about. Concerning things like Islam and Judaism, Christian heresies such as Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Islam, I do believe these may have lasting stay until Christ returns as they are false representations of the Kingdom of God. Concerning Judaism, I take the position that the Jewish people as a whole will one day recognize Jesus as the Messiah before Christ returns. After all the unnatural branches are grafted in, the natural branch will be re-grafted in and so all Israel will be saved.
@@ClaireHanna-li9ct Thats a very weak argument, How can you know the gospel if you never hear it.
@@RevDonBaker I have heard the argument but here I stand I cannot buy it!
An accident of birth? Or God keeping his promise to be God to our children, and bless those who are faithful to him to a thousand generations? God has always and continues to work in covenants/families.
Amil im guessing
You guessed right!
….not premil.
Very true
Postmillenial.
Right at the line between optimistic Amil and Postmil. I believe that when Christ returns there will be Christians in every nations and people to inherit the New Heavens and New Earth. However even at that time there may be strong and even institutional enemies to be finally destroyed.
@@RevDonBakerI like it! I grew up in an Open Brethen church, so premil dispensational was my reference point. The amil, postmil is so much better.
@@paulwoodhouse3386 We probably have similar backgrounds. I grew up Independent Fundamental Baptist so in those circles Dispensational Premillennialism is the ONLY way to go in most circles.