Me personally, no. I tried it, but my eye sight is the reason why I choose not to mount optics on my pistols. Blacked out rear and fiber optic front site works for me.
There will come a time that you come back to red dots and see them better than any iron you can buy. I've let all the older fellas at my range try my red dot guns and they immediately outfitted their guns with dots. I'm not saying you're wrong in choosing a blacked out rear and fiber front, but red dots become fantastic tools the worse your vision becomes.
@@GunRunnersTrainingCo Yes. It's great that I still have my optics if and when I need them. I don't plan on selling them anytime soon. I have red dots on all of my rifles and I'm extremely happy with all of them.
@@rimfirejunkie7427 Let me express my thanks for this class; illustration and explanation. Your view, b/c of your experience and training carries much weight. Bless you. Stay Safe.
I've been involved with firearms for many, many years but I didn't get into the whole red dot thing until a little under a year ago. Well, as my eyes have aged my iron sight shooting has suffered a little bit. From the first dot I shot I was almost wondering how you could miss. I used a red dot and as long a distance as the dot could be seen, I was hitting everything as if it were 20 years ago but with quicker precise target acquisition. Also, it seems like there is a psychological boost for many newer shooters when they use a dot. Shooting with family members and friends that are new to firearms has shown me that many new shooters I know are getting much better groups on their targets and it has translated to much more confidence (not cockiness) while carrying.
I'm curious to know if they were all kinda plain black or even black/white iron sights, or if there were aftermarket green/orange/red iron sights. My curiosity stems from knowing whether irons obscuring the target is the biggest issue, or whether the time it takes to focus on a brightly colored sighting system is what makes the biggest difference.
You can still stay target focused with irons. I shoot irons with both eyes open with focus on the target. Having a bright yellow Ameriglo front sight and blacked out rear makes this very easy
@@KarmaFlight that's actually a good red dot "dry fire" drill , though you don't have to fire at all... but close your eyes and draw and open your eyes and see if your dots there and your on target
As a new carry guy i wanted to get good at iron sights first. Then add an optic if i need one. But I think the 21ft rule was the reason im not going red dot. At the close distances that im even likely to draw at(lets think legal reasons) i think muscle memory through practice is more important. Its possible I'll have a change of heart but at this point it seems that iron sights are suitable.
This is BY FAR the best presentation on red dot optics on carry guns I have ever seen. You are spot-on. As I turned 72 last year, my progressive bifocals began obstructing my sight picture on my Sig P-365. For AZ LEOSA qualification, the course starts with 7 rds on a reduced silhouette at 25 yds, and I was having great difficulty getting more than 1 or 2 hits in the "center mass" ring. I had my choice, basically, of having a good sight picture on a completely blurred mass, or looking at a sharp target with completely blurred sights. I bought a Springfield XD target pistol and put a Holosun green dot optic with 2-MOA or Circle-Dot reticle on it, and the first time I fired it I fired a perfect score! I then acquired a Springfield Hellcat optics-ready pistol, and put a Swampfox Sentinel 3-MOA Red Dot on it. I was able to shoot it almost as well as the XD, but, like you talked about, had trouble many times finding the dot. I found I had to line up the original pistol sights (co-witnessed) THEN acquire and center the red dot. I didn't have this problem with the Holosun when using the Circle-Dot, as it pretty much popped up when I got it even approximately lined up. Acquiring a good sight picture was quick and easy, and although the Circle-Dot was a little blurry, if I centered it on the silhouette, I got consistent center-mass hits at all ranges. I am currently in the process of acquiring a Swampfox Kingslayer Green Circle-Dot sight to see if it gives me the faster sight acquisition that the Holosun does on my XD. You also brought up a very important point about target-focus. There is none of this front sight focus business; you look through the optic at the target. Those who teach front sight focus in gun fighting training are trying to overcome some 10,000 years of evolution where the caveman who focused on the tip of his spear instead of the charging sabertooth probably was less successful than one who focused on and threw at the target. For this reason I will also be adding a green laser to my Hellcat whenever Viridian comes out with a model to fit.
@@kerk5520 64 Tri- focal and stigmatism, Love my red dots!! But...as mentioned, not a magic bullet must take the time to retrain your target acquiring technique. train with blue painters tape over optic, this will speed your learning curve.
I have a romeo 1 pro on my x5 legion and iron fiber optic on my shadow 2. I shoot my shadow 2 more accurate than the p320 x5 legion at twelve yards or less by a long shot (maybe the trigger, or feels better in my hand? ). I shoot my x5 legion more accurate with the dawson precision adjustable rear sight and fiber optic front than with the romeo 1 pro at twelve yards or less? I am 66 years old and primarily shoot at a indoor range with no competition shooting. The indoor range max is 20 yards, maybe today I will shoot a few hundred rounds with competition between those two guns. PS: beyond 12 yards my bifocal repaired eyes cannot see the target that well.
63 here. Bought a P365 and fell in love with it. Ordered P365XLRomeoZero a couple of weeks ago, still on backorder. Can't wait to try it, 1911 nut turned Sig nut. Damn it's hurting my wallet, but damn, it's been fun.
I started carrying 3 years ago at 52 years young. I'll be 56 in a couple months and my eyes started getting "weaker" about 10 years ago. When I started carrying getting a good sight picture with iron sights was a huge challenge. I can't remember where or from who I first learned about red dots on pistols but, when I did I read and watched everything I could find that had anything to do with them. My understanding was an rds system would allow me to stay target focused without the challenges of lining up and focusing on the front sight/rear sight/target. I invested in a Glock gen5 G19 MOS FS and mounted a Holosun 507c with suppressor height sights. For me personally I've made massive gains in speed and accuracy. Learning to use/find the dot is a very steep learning curve for sure. The time invested in dryfire practice is more than worth it. After taking Scott's (Jedi's) red dot class twice I will never go back to iron(only) sights. I can perform better in every way with the red dot, and that's without glasses. I recently swapped the battery out of my Holosun and got it re-zeroed without any problems. I also now have a Glock gen5 G17 MOS FS with a Trijicon rmr and suppressor height sights. I am still amazed at how much easier it is for me to shoot with "weak" eyes. I understand there are cons to an rds system and a whole lot of people will continue to use iron sights and be better shooters than I ever could be but, for me the red dot is the sighting system I will be using for everything including my edc. Also wanted to give a massive shout out to Scott for being an amazing instructor and having a phenomenal class that would even benefit iron sight shooters. Everyone keep yourselves safe! 😎👍❤️🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 Randy
Great info, I too at my age (58) have seen a decline in my sight and also struggle to focus more. I just purchased the G19 Gen5 MOS and purchased the 507C as well. I have not received the gun yet, but I find your post encouraging and I'm looking forward to going to the range, thank you
If you wear progressive bifocal glasses, then YES, you do need one of these. No more tilting your head up and down to acquire the front sight or the target.
@@PNW_Sportbike_Life You ever been in a gunfight? There's no time for proper sight picture and trigger squeeze. At bad breath distance (where nearly all engagements occur), your main goal is to clear your holster in time.
@@PNW_Sportbike_Life I've had to draw my weapon, luckily for everyone, I didn't have to fire. It all happens incredibly fast. If you're thinking that there is always plenty of time, you're kidding yourself.
I think they do provide an advantage but I think they require quite a bit of extra training to really utilize. I'm used to iron sights but decided to get an RMR put on my 229. Granted I don't practice with it a ton (it's not a carry gun or anything) but it's taking me quite a while to get used to it, locating the dot in particular. Especially under stress, I'd be fuct at this point.
Try to film yourself from the side (print out a mesh on paper as a background) and acquire the dot from a low ready. You do this several times and make a mental note if it was just there dead centre. Then compare those to the other ones. Chances are that bringing your pistol to your eyes was always 'flawed' but you figured it out in the time you see the front sight early on and got you there. The dot showed that, that takes some time. You can also overlay frames to compare it to the best one underneath. Get quickly towards the stop sign but slow down early enough to not shake the car. If you dot is tiny it's harder, but if you see a bigger one and have to correct it or use a big ring outside then you're still correcting while it should just be where you need it when you bring it up to your eyes just like with irons.
I put one on my .22 to start with. Aquiring the dot is a challenge for me as well with a pistol. I cheat by lining the irons first. On a rifle, I have no trouble aquiring the dot.
@@clamum pick up a Holosun with the green ACSS reticle and get some training. All your problems will vanish and you'll suddenly become proficient with your handgun out to 100yds.
Need? No, absolutely not. Can it be faster than irons? Yes. Are they durable enough for daily carry now? Yes. Do I want one? Yes. Will I buy one? No. Simple cost/benefit analysis due to my needs.
The only interest I've had is putting one on a hunting pistol. As was mentioned in the video. Better accuracy at longer ranges. I dont really have any interest in putting one on a carry pistol.
A few other things to consider; there's a good chance you may need a new holster for it to fit with an optic mounted. So be prepared to buy one of those if that's the case. Also, in bright sun, into a lightly colored & highly lit target (or red/green)- good luck finding that red-dot. I've switched to green, and it's overall a little easier, but in some cases is still impossible. Same goes for a laser & the two colors/brightness. Some optics will cover your iron sights, depending on their base height and type of optic / rear-iron sight. If you can't see the dot, and your iron sights are covered, then you are just winging it. Don't rely on what happens at the range, because lighting conditions there and black targets are not the same as being outside in the sun into a white, or red (green) target. Some of the optic choices have a rear iron sight built into it, like the 507k. The 507c does not.
I’m 60 years old. Seeing iron sights is much harder for me now than it was 30 years ago. Most of my carry guns have red dots now. I’ve found that having suppressor height iron sights on my slide makes it easier for me to find the dot. For the folks who say red dots will fail, over the years I’ve also had iron sights fail. I had a Dawson rear sight blade break. I’ve had a rear sight on a Kahr pistol come loose and drift off center. I had a front sight on a Springfield Armory 1911 come loose and drift off center. I’ve had a Glock front sight fall off (my bad on that one - didn’t loctite it). My red dot guns have backup iron sights. Every time I carry I check the red dot before holstering. If it does fail, I’ve got the irons.
@@percyfaith11Is a red dot more likely to fail than iron sights? Sure. But that is why you have backup irons. If all you have are irons and your iron sight fails, then you are point shooting.
I'm old as well and have red dots on all my competition guns with very few problems. But still I don't trust them for EDC. Probably should, but damn, if it has a battery and microchips?....... Old school = hard-head. Yea, maybe......lol
@@M1911jlnAfter 45 I switched to a rmr mounted on my edc Glock and it just worked great without the need for prescription eye pro. I too had the front sight go flying off my Glock. Taking care of the optic is just folded into my normal maintenance schedule. If you can clean a gun you can switch out batteries.
I dont carry a red dot because I live in a wet wet place and I'm not interested in breaking a multiple hundred dollar optic every time i go out in the woods.
Fantastic video Chris! I love this channel! I don't know why, but when it comes to red dots on pistols I turn into a 65 year old retiree. I have shot with red dots, I know they are fantastic optics that can really help someone acquire a sight picture incredibly quickly and efficiently. I also know that companies now are making red dots that are incredibly durable and well made, with a small footprint on the actual gun. I know all of these thing and yet....I can't bring myself to buy one. I completely understand why someone would want one, and how they are great, but for me I'll stick with my metal iron sights on my glocks, even if I can't properly explain why.
I have the exact same problem with red dot sights. Been shooting with irons for decades and I’m fast and comfortable with it. Yet every time I’ve tried to shoot with a red dot I look like a complete noob. And even with corrective lenses I just can’t focus on the dot. It’s a blurry mess for me. Doesn’t matter what brand it is, although the Sig red dots are the worst for me, holosun is the best fwiw. Might need to take some classes on it but I don’t know anyone that does red dot specific training courses in the state.
@@DIYDad1 no offense brother but if you’re trying to focus on the dot then you’re using it improperly. They’re designed so that you superimpose aka place the dot on the desired point of impact while maintaining focus on the target. If at any point you start trying to focus on the dot as if it were say a front sight you’ve misused the rds system. You could’ve have an astigmatism which that can be corrected by the eye doc if you already have to use corrective lenses. If you’ve only had a few instances with rds then yes it will genuinely suck in comparison to irons but it takes time to master.
To op: probably cost eh? Grab a .22 pistol with a pic rail or hell even a airsoft or bb pistol with a rail and cheap Amazon rds and get reps. Gives you an excuse to buy a new gun and if you hate it you’re not out a bunch of money. Just understand that you’re at literarily the bottom of the bin and things like reliably and durability can’t be something you equate to rds’ being bad. Just to feel it out.
@@OTG_Zulu yep, I have a very bad astigmatism. I even brought up the fact with my eye doctor that I can’t focus on red dot sights lol. He said they have a few patients with bad astigmatism. Maybe focus is the wrong word, but the red dot is blurry and all washed out so it totally covers the target. Even a small ish 2 moa dot it looks totally blown out. I just got a new prescription this week so I going to be trying it again and see if things improve.
@@DIYDad1 yeah I understand that. Hopefully it works out for you. Also different rds from dif manufacturers yield dif results. So if you can, ask ppl if you can look through their optics too.
I’ve been running a red dot on my carry pistol (sig p320c) for about a year now and I practice live fire at least once a month. I’ve made the decision to go back to iron sights (trijicon truglo) because I have found that from sweat and clothing lint the optics glass can get real dirty with smudges and when you go to find the dot your glass is very unclear. This has slowed me down for a while now. Whether it’s target acquisition, clearing malfunctions, or slide manipulation I feel better without the optic on the gun. I have tried to train through it but for me personally, I am just faster and more confident with irons. Rifles however I love the rds. I had laser eye surgery and have 20/15 vision in my left eye (my dominant eye) and 20/20 in my right eye. I also still have astigmatism so I don’t see a dot, I see a fuzzy starburst. I think it comes down to preference and what your training tells you.
I have bad close range sight myself. and having a red dot has, in practice helped me target acquire more efficiently. I cant go to the range as often as I want to but I do intend to hit it when I can. And honestly the issue I am finding is finding holsters that accommodate red dots over not fitting them.
Aramil Galendel, I have the P365 xl, and much to my surprise the holster for the Walther pps-m2 fit the Sig like it was meant to be. It leaves a 1/4" space for the red dot and "clicks in " perfectly. I still plan on getting a new holster for the Sig, but for now it works great!
Some things that keep me from switching are that a piece of lint in just the wrong spot will obscure the laser that's projecting the dot so you'd have no dot to see, any debris that gets onto the lens of the dot can completely obscure both the dot and your iron sights making the gun impossible to aim beyond point-shooting, and potential issues of the glass of the dot sight becoming obscured from moister either via condensation or via rain.
I run a closed emitter but sage dynamics goes over plenty of ways to overcome such an issue I think the video is called "handgun optic blockage" or something similar, make the plunge you wont regret it 👍
That's why you keep back up suppressor height irons that you can see through the glass. All quality red dots will have an antifog costing. You can also apply a 3rd party anti fog coating.
@Erozpl01 01 That solves issue 1, and most closed emitter designs are nitrogen purged so it pretty much solves issue 3, but it does nothing for issue 2. If, somehow, debris gets onto the lens to obscure it then even your iron sights become useless as they become obscured too. Also, most pistol RDS are the open emitter type currently so issues 1 and 3 are still present on most of them.
@Erozpl01 01 1: Yes there are both types available. Many of the most popular pistol RDS are not the closed emitter types, so it's still an issue with many, if not most, pistol mounted RDS. 2: A rear iron sight could be obstructed by debris, but that seems like it would be less of an issue than if a RDS were obstructed by debris. Rear iron sights are small, and so blowing on it would likely clear out any debris. The area of either, or both, the front and rear lens of a RDS are much larger and therefore might be more difficult to clear debris from. As far as snow being the debris goes, I'd expect a shot or two to clear the sights. What about a sticky mud or something else that stays on a bit more than just frozen water? I'm not sure.
Went rmr last stimulus check.. now I'm homeless.... But at least I can threat focus poor iron sight and low budget rds users.. I feel sorry for them..lol Jkjk even if i could well afford a rmr. I still wouldnt buy one.. the 1.price is not worth it 2. I don't buy any trijicon products due to over pricing. 3. I dont support selfish greedy companies..(hey that's my shape!! I have a patent on those two horns!! Ima sue u regardless if it would make ur optic strong and save lifes.!!) 4. I'm not a sheep and i think for myself.. thoe it may be tough and reliable. Well here's an update trijicon arnt the only ones who make a reliable durable/reliable optic.
@@lazarus1867 Holoson are about 1/2 the price of trijicons! They do everything the expensive ones do and then some. There are a couple of makers,swampfox, vortex are even lower price then the Holoson.
@@douglassalley9117 I like Vortex because they support the CCFR which is an advocate for Canadians. Unfortunately I’m stuck up here and can’t move back south, (although California and Washington have gone to the dogs so I’m not going back there).
Thanks, Chris, for another honest, informative, and valuable stage setting presentation as we “freshman” to the world of RedDot optics begin to form our own opinions during the decision making process. One point that I can’t seem to get around, however, is the aesthetic of adding a visually and manually cumbersome product to a full or mid-sized pistol such as one of your favorites-the LSS Elite 9mm pistols, e.g., the Centurion model. Not only do you now have to deal with a fairly limited number of holster choices…and the added complexity of drawing the weapon quickly, but the famously appealing, sleek beauty of the Beretta disappears under the piggy-back addition of an optical “contraption,” however useful. In the end, at least with one of Ernest Langdon’s Elite pistols, it seems by adding you have in a sense taken away. As a novice in these dominions, perhaps I am mistaken and the Centurion wouldn’t be more difficult to draw quickly, there would be no increased snagging, the benefits to shooter accuracy would add far more than might be given up and, with ‘new eyes’, the Beretta 90 series would still remain a thing of beauty! What say ye?
My experience is to train target focused with iron sights. The gun and hands become a ghost image which makes it much easier to see the threat better. The front and rear sights become a dot when lined up correctly. This helps get rid of the tendency for iron sight shooters to want to look over there sights after their shots to see what happened to the target. A good analogy is using ghost ring sights like it common for rifles. Training the brain to look through the sights. Eye convergence and divergence training helps with this.
Info I was looking for this very day. I wear progressive glasses and don´t see the front sight, have shot point shooting with success, but hear top teachers talk focusing on the front sight. I can forecast that in a lethal encounter my reptile brain can be counted on to be focused on the Bad Guy, his movements, his reaching etc. I can see how a red dot will deal with all these topics.
I generally recommend green dots over red dots. Human eye picks up green easier than any other color, green dots are easier to see in direct sunlight, and green dots are easier to use for people with astigmatism (turn the brightness on a green down and cowitness it with BUIS).
Depends where you are. I shoot on my buddy's property and all the green vegetation makes it more difficult to acquire green, whereas the red has a bright distinctive contrast with the surrounding color scheme.
I had to shift to red dot/triangle sights when my Geezer Eyes caused issues when not in bright daylight. Transition took a couple of months of weekly training but this old dog learned the new trick. Mechanical presentation was the key to quick. Good video. Thank you.
My issue is that red dot sights make concealment harder for me. I need that pretty hard cant to conceal the grip well…but a red dot forces a less cant because it gets caught on the red dot
Too much cant gives you a poor initial grip when drawing. Have you tried using something like the Dark Star Gear Teardrop Wedge? A wedge can push the frame into your body more to conceal the frame better.
After 45 I switched to an rmr and Holosun on my edc carry guns and it worked for me. No need for prescription bi focal eye pro. I folded my optic care into my maintenance schedule so replacing a weak battery was as routine swabbing the bore and slide lubrication. I really find it weird that the same guys who think having a rifle optic is mandatory also think a pistol optic is unreliable or a frivolous luxury.
Holosun 507C with the ACSS reticle makes finding the dot when presenting laughably easy. I highly recommend everyone pick one up and see the difference. Mike of Mrgunsandgear has a very accurate review on how revolutionary the ACSS reticle is to the red dot industry.
The dovetail/adapter method for mounting red dots is actually pretty good. Conversely, if one browses some forums, folks will find many companies offering milling, but botching the job (sloppy, excessively large cuts, crooked cuts, etc). Great stuff, as always!
All personal preference but you hit on exactly why I changed my mind. My previous EDC was a 365 that I added a Holosun to. No doubt I was more accurate with it. But for SD and that split-second decision when drawing I much prefer iron sights. The dot does not always get target acquisition in a split second. I didn't like the feel of it at all. My new EDC is now a Shield Plus and sticking with the Ameriglo Pro I-Dots and not looking back. A real costly mistake I made. Would say the Red Dot is better for everything except for SD. And maybe more practice and dry-firing would have resolved but was not taking the chance. Thank you.
One thing that helps finding the dot is using the HS507C-X2 with the ACSS Vulcan reticle, it can help prompt you the right way when you are off target and can't find your dot.
Great information and an interesting topic. I am not at a point where I feel the need for one, but I know friends who swear by them after they spent significant time training. Personally, I have difficulty acquiring the dot, even on a rifle. I also wonder if real world application lends itself to an optic. I have seen a lot of self defense videos and often times the person doesn’t have the time to even get two hands on the gun, so I would imagine that acquiring the dot would be more challenging. I have also seen instructors suggest that even trying to line up your sights is a waste of time. They teach people how to shoot accurately without even using sights. Finally, I think that if you train with one and do your best to simulate real world scenarios, you can become proficient. So, if your eyesight is better served with an optic, then go for it.
Well it depends, do you want to be able to shoot, shoot and run, or do you want to be able to fight against equal or disadvantageos odds, or just fight hard to your maximum potential? A handgun is all good and well, but its not a very good active fighting tool, fighting with rifles and other long guns is much more effective agaist any threat (not to mention when your opponent has a rifle and you have a hadngun). Handguns also suffer when body armor is present, as its hard to engage unarmored body parts effectively (compared to a rifle which can do so much more effectively and easily). A red dot helps you close on these mentioned iron sights defiiciencies. A red dot helps you fight more quickly, further out or closer in, with more flexibility and effectivness. So if you want to shoot, you don´t need to have it, if you want to fight and fight hard against equal or bad ods, you´re better off with one.
For all of human history, we've been dispatching bad guys by focusing on the threat. Then, we put these small nubs on our handguns and all of a sudden all of that has to change. Now, we have a technology that allows us to shoot and compliments the way our body works, and it feels weird because we've put so much time and energy into the inferior system. But, red dots are the future and the future is now.
@@harbingertheheretic3541 I just took Scott Jedlinski's legendary red dot course this weekend. If you ever actually get impeded by rain, he said "use the big dot in the middle". For mud, he said "wtf are you worrying about mud for? And even if you did drop your gun into mud, guess what, your iron sights can be occluded by mud too".
@@harbingertheheretic3541 why do we make exceptions for rifles? It’s so standard to mount an optic on a rifle, and we are at the point where we have pistol optics that are just as reliable as those rifle mounted optics and yet there are still naysayers. Granted there will always be, but if you’re worried about the elements blocking your dot projection, then get an enclosed optic.
I've carried most of my life, now well past retirement age. I just this spring (2023) started carrying with a red dot attached. As a geezer, I am HUGELY helped with the Holosun 507c with the Vulcan ACSS reticle from Primary Arms. The very large red circle is NOT visible at all at arms length if the pistol is aligned correctly. It IS visible if the arm is too far off target. That's where this reticle shines - IF the pistol is not aligned correctly, some segment of the red circle will be visible to show there shooter which way there arm needs to be moved to see the center dot/chevron. It is VERY intuitive and has a very short learn curve. I've used red dots on rifles for some years, so I'm not new to the concept, but as mentioned, the rifle red dot is quite easy to use - so long as one's cheek is in the proper place on the stock. Pistol red dots DO take training, and perhaps a lot of it. The ACSS reticle cuts that training time to 25% or even less. ACSS reticle from Primary Arms is a game changer!
Great info and well presented! Personally, I’m a BIG fan of Lasermax internal (guide rod) lasers for my carry pistols. No special holsters needed, no extra snagging protrusions and inherently incredibly accurate due to the closest possible proximity to the bore axis of the pistol…..oh, and no sighting-in necessary for the same reason! Plus I can also run tritium fiber optic irons as a guaranteed day/night backup!
I've never had much luck with reflex sights. The tube red dots work great for me. Ended up going with lasers for my M9A3s. TLR-8AG for my house gun and a CMR-206 for the field gun.
I love them, but you don't NEED them in self defense unless you're trying to snipe an active shooter from a distance without missing. You can point shoot center mass within 15ft.
True, if point shooting is difficult for you, try a different gun. I can point shoot accurately and super fast with a VP9, but I’m all over the place with the PPQ.
I agree with this. I wanted to get one but if I'm in a self defense situation I will most likely pull point and shoot and not have to worry about looking for a dot.
@@orionatayI was on the fence for a long time, but in the minute chance a family member is close to or being attacked by an attacker and the shot has to be perfect, I’d trust the dot over my ability to line up sights.
the situation i see a dot actually being of any use is some kind of shooting situation in public. that means you might be a bit away from where the action is, and the consequences of missinc can be high, either through hiting bystanders, or the shooter getting more shots off). most shootings where you are a participant from the start are close enough where you should be hitting your shots with irons.
@@orionatay if you don't need to look at the dot, don't. But if you find yourself in a situation in which the dot would help and you doubt have it... better to have it and not need it?
@@OutsideTheTargetDemographic Do it under the adrenaline rush of a gun fight, while blurring your target to focus on the front sight post.. past 10-15m irons are almost useless when the target is moving and also shooting at you while your brain dumps the biggest adrenaline shock you've ever had.
@@noonenoesbutme Militaries the world over expect just this from their fighting men, and have for centeries. I never said the red dots don't have benefits, but I will say it again: *More weight *More mass *More expense *More training *More complexity *Introduce electronics into the equation *Introduce batteries into the equation *Introduce glass into the equation *Introduce an eyebox/tunnel into the equation *Introduce maintenance to the equation *Reduce the number of holster options I have tried a red dot Sig 355, and while it increased accuracy for me, that return on investment did not out weight the above list of drawbacks.
Im one of those that at normal self defense distances the red dots didnt really offer me any benefit. However once the distance got out there, even to 100 yards, they were very helpful and pretty cool. Im actually planning on putting a pistol together with a red dot to see if i can kinda force myself to get better with one up close, we'll see though.
I recently started using red dots, the most recent is a Sig P365 xl with the Romeo 0. The best way for me is to remember to keep the muzzle more upward on the draw.I'm of the opinion that the Holosun 507c,which has a 32moa circle with a 3moa dot works better for initial sight acquisition. Making a raggedy hole at 15yrds is fairly easy after a few hundred rds down range. It's definitely worth it to me!
It's most likely you're gonna use your gun to shoot a target at less than 7 yards. Iron sights aren't needed at this distance, let alone red dots. And seeing footage most pp will point shoot during these situations. Train point shooting. It's free, fast and reliable
Self defense situations? More like 10 feet most of the time. Under stress you will focus on the target, not the sights. For me, a carry pistol needs to be small enough to conceal, yet a service caliber. It needs to be reliable and shaped to avoid snagging clothing. Unless you're on the SWAT team, I don't understand this fascination with gadgets on a carry gun. It seems everyone wants 800 lumens of light and an optic sight on a little P365 or Shield Plus. Yes, my bedside pistol has a light. When I carry that pistol, I take the light off. Sights? The dots on the rear sight distract me, so I black out the dots with a sharpie and we're good. If a threat is far enough away that I need an optic to reliably hit it, I probably don't need to shoot at it.
7 yards is 21 feet..... thats ideal red dot distance might want to try taking a force on force class in my anecdotal experience the defensive encounters I've experienced are around 10 yards on average
@@HalfCrazy520 ha yes long guns are always a better choice if you can get away with one I use a rifle but thats a personal preference for me shotguns are awesome
So in your kitchen we've removed a wall, moved the fridge, and put in a firing range. The dinning flows directly into the den and also features a firing range. Upstairs the master bedroom has a walk in firing range and an included master bath that has a classic claw foot tub and apron sink.
Chris, thank you for explaining whatever firearm topic you teach about so well. You are gifted. I have learned so much from you. May I call you the "professor"?
As I am over 50 now, and always have had eye glasses, I recently had a local gunsmith change my factory iron sights to Tritium sights (red forward and green rear). I have noticed a huge improvement in my presentation speed. My EDC is a S&W 686 with a 4" barrel.
Matt, what sights did you get? I am looking for improved sights in my 686. I had Meproilight, but the front blade was too low and I was shooting high. Glad I found your post .... please advise! Thank you.
@@kirk2767 well I'm gonna tell you this from personal experience if you can do that and have a great grip technique you can burn it down up close and it's relevant in almost every other aspect of shooting
@@kirk2767 it is when your the person shooting at you (or others if you find yourself in a mass shooter situation). You will not survive a 25-50m fight against an AR15 with irons. With a rds you can take those long shots accurately while keeping 100% situation awareness because your point of focus is on the target not the front sight post (which at 25m is likely blocking your view of the target).
If you dry fire you can nail down presentation pretty quickly with a red dot. You can really dial in a zero and a hold , that is huge to me. At 10 yards you can plug quarters all day long , its great.
My red dot on a handgun is actually a laser. My vision isn't perfect, but the dot from a red laser is beyond easy to see. A person doesn't need to have excellent sighting ability, just good trigger control, and a dialed in laser, and they can shoot extremely accurately.
But only at a specific distance. (Point of intersection between bore and laser). After that it is way more complicated. With an RDS it is almost negligible up to 50 uards and more.
@@pmular Sure, you set the laser for a specific distance that point of aim and impact meet. Before that point, starting at the muzzle, the difference is the greatest, which is the distance between the center of the barrel and the laser. A small handgun, like a Hellcat, to me is at most a 25yd gun anyway. If I dial the laser to 7yds, the difference between point of aim and impact beyond that distance is negligible at 25yds. I have not tried a red laser beyond 25yds, but green is a different story. I put a green laser on an AR platform for fun, and it certainly was fun. It's primary optic was a vortex red dot. I'll just say that the laser was easier to aquire a target at 100yds than the dot, but the 2 MOA dot was decent out to that distance. Beyond 100yds, maybe even out to 300, the laser although a pretty big dot, would be easier for me, but I'd probably use an LPVO instead on an AR type rifle. Strike Eagles are decent for the money. I don't knock the dot, anything you can use to shoot more accurately is good. People do seem to dog on lasers, and I certainly can say that I kinda did too... Until I set one up. For the distances used, lasers are amazing. In low light conditions, a laser is the easiest thing I've ever used to quickly, and accurately pop a target. I will say that I've been thinking about getting an RDP... and mounting a laser on it for fun. Shooting is a blast.
I've mounted them on revolvers. Works great but locating mounts can take some research. S&W revolvers are simple. Older models have to be drilled and tapped, newer models, easy peasey. If you like red dots, I wouldn't haste to put them on your revolvers.
I've only used a pistol optic once, and the difference was startling! For defensive use, a huge benefit of not having to focus on sights is that you can watch the threat and more easily determine if any movements are actually threatening.
And all you guys have been through a self-defense situation? Funny, all the interviews I've watched regarding actual self-defense they've all said, they wish they never had accessories on their carry weapon.
I want my carry piece to be as comfortable, compact and inconspicuous as possible, adding lasers, sights and lights makes it less of those three criteria in all aspects and increases the likelihood it gets left at home.
I carry a FN 509c tactical with a trijicon rmr type 2 and streamlight tlr7. Comfortable and printing is never an issue. I'd rather need it and have it than need it and not have it. Those 2 attachments can make a difference in varying circumstances.
Adding a reflex sight on a pistol adds almost no bulk or perceived weight or printing. I have reflex sights on 4 pistols and none of the optics on them change the comfort of carrying said pistol. But it makes me an astronomically better shot because a sighted in red dot tells you EXACTLY where your shots will go.
@@robertsims9201 Yeah,but at 5 to 7 yards in a quick,close encounter emergency, do you really need it to get the job done? I think that's the question. The "real need" vs optional equipment.
I am 68 now and put a red dot and light on the bedside firearm and practiced with it. I think I am taking dot and light off and go back to flashlight and iron sights.
I got my first mrds my old Glock 9 months ago. I payed more for the sight and milling than I did for the gen5 19. Every handgun I carry or rely on for defence now has a red dot lol. It is the way of the future. I've worked on my presentation relentlessly to get the sight picture. Thousands and THOUSANDS of draws to make sure I'll see a dot. I've killed groundhogs at 25-30 yards with an rds and hit them in the front shoulders or neck. I couldn't have done that with irons. Consistently anyway. We can't pick the defensive encounter we hopefully never get in. It could be 1 foot or 50 yards and we have to close on it to save others. A mrds gives me confidence to take longer shots and get good hits
Chris started this segment with the "I'm not an expert" disclaimer. This isn't the first time he's said it, nor is this the first channel I've heard use it. I'd really like to see Chris do a video on a topic that he considers himself to be a subject matter expert on. I want to see him talk about something he's super knowledgeable and excited about.
It'd be something like: So today I'm going to talk about how to market an online ammo store through community engagement and online presence. Step 1: Have ammo Step 2: You no longer have ammo. So that's all for today folks.
There is not any topic I would consider myself an expert on. I can give competent advice on a wide variety of shooting-related topics because I generally know who the experts are on those topics. On the flip side, most of the actual experts aren't particularly good at presenting on camera or editing video and firearms training is not a lucrative enough trade that they can typically hire someone to do those things for them. It's generally best to let the experts be experts and let the people who know how to make compelling content focus on doing that
Need? Probably not. But, its a pretty big help once you put in the work. I’ve got an RMR on my every day gun. I can still shoot irons just fine, but I’m better with the dot now. It was a small step back at first. It took 3 or 4 months of dry fire (15-30 minutes 3 or 4 times per week) and a few range trips to get my dot performance up to where I had been with irons. But then I kept improving after that.
Great breakdown. I would like to see more comparisons of red dots vs. laser sights. Lasers allow you to be target focused moreso than red dots imho. Additionally they give you the ability to target without using a traditional stance. The obvious downside to laser sights... bright daylight, but regardless of sunlight it is very easy to see a laser indoors. Lasers are bulky like red dots, but they are more out of the way than red dots.
The iron sights on my firearms have got fuzzier as they get older (LOL)...It's Illegal to hunt with a laser in my state and I like the Sig Romeo05 red dot on my rifle a lot. I've a Lima365 on my P365 and it melts into the profile with most of my holsters. It is instantly with a proper grip and I can see it in almost all lighting....I can see that a red dot floating reticle in an optic is superior to iron sights (with aging eyes) but are there any advantages to a projected 'red dot' laser?
I always appreciate the honest, no macho and concise approach that your website employs. Well done and this is a great episode to start the logical thinking about whether or not to dip one's toe into the red dot pool. Good job, thanks!
I shoot irons well enough and went shooting with a friend that had a red dot on his Glock I was able to accurately shoot it immediately. It seemed easier mainly. I'm not going to switch though because I shoot a Beretta and the slide alone is $500-600 without the optic so I can buy a new gun for what I'll spend on a dot with the needed slide. It's not worth it for me. I wasn't more accurate it was just easier overall. Also my friend was extremely accurate with the irons because of practice with the dot and vice versa for me
Don't NEED one.. But, I prefer it for EDC... There are a lot of easy EDC firearms and dots that are geared for the slimmer stuff... The Sig 365 XL (etc) and its relatives in similar sized weapons. I was a late bloomer to the dot / halo scene. Years ago I pretty much know exactly where my favorite pistols are pointing, relatively speaking. That being said, especially in a high pressure situation, I absolutely am all about "red dots"... I cannot beat my best times (at speed) with "irons".. My 80 year old Vietnam vet who brought my brother and I up with firearms (and responsibility that goes without saying) just this year finally agreed to shoot dot optics... The look on his face was way past "priceless". He said, "YOU are CHEATING!!" "Which one should I order!?!" So, as far as I know, he has 4 mounted on a.variety of handguns now and 1 shotgun... He wanted to replace the 3x Looped Gold Ring on his 629 .44 mag, which I took up hunting with over rifles here in Texas.. I may get with him and compare and contrast results on that platform...
I’m really glad this channel avoids coming off as advertising for specific products but given that the training barrier is the biggest obstacle and the 507 ACSS completely changes the learning curve for a pistol mounted red dot, I can’t see how in 2021the ACSS reticle can be left out of the discussion.
Thanks for the nice video. Handgun optic sights are truly great. I standardized on the Holoson 507c-x2. In my opinion, the 32 MOA circle with the 2 MOA dot makes target acquisition easier than a small single dot. You can also select a single 2 MOA dot as well. I sold my Vortex Venom RDO after shooting with Holoson. I have astigmatism and some far sightedness. I can shoot my handguns with optics without my glasses easily and accurately. I struggle to do that with my iron sights even though I have fiber optic fronts. I shoot irons well with my glasses. However, on gray days with dim light, the optic sight is hands down the winner. In my opinion one complication with the red dot sightsis the dot intensity setting. Lighting conditions can change and you may bring your gun up with a dot that is too dim, not visible or overly bright. Some RDOs have automatic brightness but that only measures ambient light not target brightness; there can be a huge difference so I do not use auto brightness. So, you have to be adapt at changing your dot intensity if required or switching to the co-witness backups. I have two carry guns. An M&P 2.0 Compact with a Holoson 507c-x2 and a M&P 9mm EZ with Wilson combat iron sights. My M&P Compact has an Apex trigger. My favorite gun to shoot with an RDO is my Beretta 92 with a Langdon RDO slide and the Holoson 507c-x2. Of course it has a custom trigger too.
I’m over a half century in age and my iron sights are barely visible blobs. However, within 25 yards I can consistently and reliably hit center mass. I just point the gun center mass and as long as I have a good trigger pull the rounds hit center mass. Mastering the fundamentals will allow you to not have to Go to your sights. I would use optics in the event I have to make precise shots.
Yours is my favorite gun channel next to She Equips Herself. I love gun content that isn't layered with weird machismo and a vaguely racist sense of what patriotism is. Just good information delivered in a friendly tone. Subscribed 🥰
Me personally, no. I tried it, but my eye sight is the reason why I choose not to mount optics on my pistols. Blacked out rear and fiber optic front site works for me.
Yeah red dots don't work well with my eyes either. I too use a plain rear with a f/o or tritium front sight.
@@rimfirejunkie7427 Your thoughts on XS big dot?
There will come a time that you come back to red dots and see them better than any iron you can buy. I've let all the older fellas at my range try my red dot guns and they immediately outfitted their guns with dots. I'm not saying you're wrong in choosing a blacked out rear and fiber front, but red dots become fantastic tools the worse your vision becomes.
@@GunRunnersTrainingCo Yes. It's great that I still have my optics if and when I need them. I don't plan on selling them anytime soon. I have red dots on all of my rifles and I'm extremely happy with all of them.
@@rimfirejunkie7427 Let me express my thanks for this class; illustration and explanation. Your view, b/c of your experience and training carries much weight. Bless you. Stay Safe.
I've been involved with firearms for many, many years but I didn't get into the whole red dot thing until a little under a year ago. Well, as my eyes have aged my iron sight shooting has suffered a little bit. From the first dot I shot I was almost wondering how you could miss. I used a red dot and as long a distance as the dot could be seen, I was hitting everything as if it were 20 years ago but with quicker precise target acquisition. Also, it seems like there is a psychological boost for many newer shooters when they use a dot. Shooting with family members and friends that are new to firearms has shown me that many new shooters I know are getting much better groups on their targets and it has translated to much more confidence (not cockiness) while carrying.
Even though that study was small, it was pretty surprising.
Yeah especially that critical hit rate.
What was your more expected take? A less dramatic difference between the two options?
I'm curious to know if they were all kinda plain black or even black/white iron sights, or if there were aftermarket green/orange/red iron sights.
My curiosity stems from knowing whether irons obscuring the target is the biggest issue, or whether the time it takes to focus on a brightly colored sighting system is what makes the biggest difference.
I have green laser, red dot and iron sights all on the same gun , lol. Finding holsters sucks!
@@A_Qwynide it takes time and focus to look at the sights close up and then the target farther away as opposed to seeing the red dot “on” your target.
Chris Baker makes each presentation professional, personable, and serious as a heart attack... no one is better!
Everything about this video makes me grateful that I found your channel. Thanks for your commitment to making us more knowledgeable about firearms.
Definitely situational. In my mind concealed carry situations should usually mean short distance and quick shooting. Clearly not always.
You can still stay target focused with irons. I shoot irons with both eyes open with focus on the target. Having a bright yellow Ameriglo front sight and blacked out rear makes this very easy
Yes
Jedi’s class is where it’s at. I also like the increased feedback I get from a dot in dry fire ( and in live fire for that matter).
100% I'm taking his class twice this year because of how great his class was and how much information is thrown at you , it definitely worth it.
Feel the Force. Follow the path of the Jedi.
@@KarmaFlight that's actually a good red dot "dry fire" drill , though you don't have to fire at all... but close your eyes and draw and open your eyes and see if your dots there and your on target
As a new carry guy i wanted to get good at iron sights first. Then add an optic if i need one. But I think the 21ft rule was the reason im not going red dot. At the close distances that im even likely to draw at(lets think legal reasons) i think muscle memory through practice is more important. Its possible I'll have a change of heart but at this point it seems that iron sights are suitable.
This is BY FAR the best presentation on red dot optics on carry guns I have ever seen. You are spot-on. As I turned 72 last year, my progressive bifocals began obstructing my sight picture on my Sig P-365. For AZ LEOSA qualification, the course starts with 7 rds on a reduced silhouette at 25 yds, and I was having great difficulty getting more than 1 or 2 hits in the "center mass" ring. I had my choice, basically, of having a good sight picture on a completely blurred mass, or looking at a sharp target with completely blurred sights. I bought a Springfield XD target pistol and put a Holosun green dot optic with 2-MOA or Circle-Dot reticle on it, and the first time I fired it I fired a perfect score! I then acquired a Springfield Hellcat optics-ready pistol, and put a Swampfox Sentinel 3-MOA Red Dot on it. I was able to shoot it almost as well as the XD, but, like you talked about, had trouble many times finding the dot. I found I had to line up the original pistol sights (co-witnessed) THEN acquire and center the red dot. I didn't have this problem with the Holosun when using the Circle-Dot, as it pretty much popped up when I got it even approximately lined up. Acquiring a good sight picture was quick and easy, and although the Circle-Dot was a little blurry, if I centered it on the silhouette, I got consistent center-mass hits at all ranges. I am currently in the process of acquiring a Swampfox Kingslayer Green Circle-Dot sight to see if it gives me the faster sight acquisition that the Holosun does on my XD.
You also brought up a very important point about target-focus. There is none of this front sight focus business; you look through the optic at the target. Those who teach front sight focus in gun fighting training are trying to overcome some 10,000 years of evolution where the caveman who focused on the tip of his spear instead of the charging sabertooth probably was less successful than one who focused on and threw at the target. For this reason I will also be adding a green laser to my Hellcat whenever Viridian comes out with a model to fit.
Make no mistake, there’s a big training curve on them. I love mine now with 66 year old eyes
I'm 69. That's why I'm researching. :)
I'm still on the curve and hoping I can be happy and competent enough to make it a solid choice for me.
@@kerk5520 64 Tri- focal and stigmatism, Love my red dots!! But...as mentioned, not a magic bullet must take the time to retrain your target acquiring technique. train with blue painters tape over optic, this will speed your learning curve.
I have a romeo 1 pro on my x5 legion and iron fiber optic on my shadow 2. I shoot my shadow 2 more accurate than the p320 x5 legion at twelve yards or less by a long shot (maybe the trigger, or feels better in my hand? ). I shoot my x5 legion more accurate with the dawson precision adjustable rear sight and fiber optic front than with the romeo 1 pro at twelve yards or less? I am 66 years old and primarily shoot at a indoor range with no competition shooting. The indoor range max is 20 yards, maybe today I will shoot a few hundred rounds with competition between those two guns. PS: beyond 12 yards my bifocal repaired eyes cannot see the target that well.
63 here. Bought a P365 and fell in love with it. Ordered P365XLRomeoZero a couple of weeks ago, still on backorder. Can't wait to try it, 1911 nut turned Sig nut. Damn it's hurting my wallet, but damn, it's been fun.
Hell yes! Went RDS 6 months ago and have broke through barriers I knew I could reach!
Nice Beastie Boys reference at the end. Brought me right back to my senior year. 😀
I’m glad someone else noticed that! It would have been a shame to let that reference go unnoticed lol
I started carrying 3 years ago at 52 years young. I'll be 56 in a couple months and my eyes started getting "weaker" about 10 years ago. When I started carrying getting a good sight picture with iron sights was a huge challenge. I can't remember where or from who I first learned about red dots on pistols but, when I did I read and watched everything I could find that had anything to do with them. My understanding was an rds system would allow me to stay target focused without the challenges of lining up and focusing on the front sight/rear sight/target. I invested in a Glock gen5 G19 MOS FS and mounted a Holosun 507c with suppressor height sights. For me personally I've made massive gains in speed and accuracy. Learning to use/find the dot is a very steep learning curve for sure. The time invested in dryfire practice is more than worth it. After taking Scott's (Jedi's) red dot class twice I will never go back to iron(only) sights. I can perform better in every way with the red dot, and that's without glasses. I recently swapped the battery out of my Holosun and got it re-zeroed without any problems. I also now have a Glock gen5 G17 MOS FS with a Trijicon rmr and suppressor height sights. I am still amazed at how much easier it is for me to shoot with "weak" eyes.
I understand there are cons to an rds system and a whole lot of people will continue to use iron sights and be better shooters than I ever could be but, for me the red dot is the sighting system I will be using for everything including my edc.
Also wanted to give a massive shout out to Scott for being an amazing instructor and having a phenomenal class that would even benefit iron sight shooters.
Everyone keep yourselves safe! 😎👍❤️🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Randy
Great info, I too at my age (58) have seen a decline in my sight and also struggle to focus more. I just purchased the G19 Gen5 MOS and purchased the 507C as well. I have not received the gun yet, but I find your post encouraging and I'm looking forward to going to the range, thank you
@@drummerdm1016 😃👍
No need for a red dot when you shoot “wild west pimp style”.
You mean "when you fan your revolver"? lol
When shooting from the hip the sites are useless
Akimbo 44 magnums from the hip.
Buddy I’m blind as a bat and switching to red dot was a God sent. Truly night and day
If you wear progressive bifocal glasses, then YES, you do need one of these. No more tilting your head up and down to acquire the front sight or the target.
Exactly. At least that's my experience.
They still using the lines on those things. Lol
@@DS..69 yep. At least the ones I got from the VA still do
I never thought about this. I work as an administrator now in an optical. Been in the optical business for years and never thought about that.
Yes
Dots are cool, but they aren't magic; you've still got to apply proper fundamentals.
Oh really?
@@riptaway lots of new shooters don't know this. They think a dot or a laser makes them shoot like Robocop.
@@PNW_Sportbike_Life You ever been in a gunfight? There's no time for proper sight picture and trigger squeeze. At bad breath distance (where nearly all engagements occur), your main goal is to clear your holster in time.
@@craigfelter oh, there's always time. Have you ever been in a gunfight?
@@PNW_Sportbike_Life I've had to draw my weapon, luckily for everyone, I didn't have to fire.
It all happens incredibly fast. If you're thinking that there is always plenty of time, you're kidding yourself.
I think they do provide an advantage but I think they require quite a bit of extra training to really utilize. I'm used to iron sights but decided to get an RMR put on my 229. Granted I don't practice with it a ton (it's not a carry gun or anything) but it's taking me quite a while to get used to it, locating the dot in particular. Especially under stress, I'd be fuct at this point.
Try to film yourself from the side (print out a mesh on paper as a background) and acquire the dot from a low ready. You do this several times and make a mental note if it was just there dead centre. Then compare those to the other ones. Chances are that bringing your pistol to your eyes was always 'flawed' but you figured it out in the time you see the front sight early on and got you there. The dot showed that, that takes some time. You can also overlay frames to compare it to the best one underneath. Get quickly towards the stop sign but slow down early enough to not shake the car. If you dot is tiny it's harder, but if you see a bigger one and have to correct it or use a big ring outside then you're still correcting while it should just be where you need it when you bring it up to your eyes just like with irons.
I put one on my .22 to start with. Aquiring the dot is a challenge for me as well with a pistol. I cheat by lining the irons first. On a rifle, I have no trouble aquiring the dot.
Pull in with your pinky you find the dot instantly
@@Nr15121 Thanks bruther. I do think my grip is lacking in pressure from the smaller fingers.
@@clamum pick up a Holosun with the green ACSS reticle and get some training. All your problems will vanish and you'll suddenly become proficient with your handgun out to 100yds.
Need? No, absolutely not.
Can it be faster than irons? Yes.
Are they durable enough for daily carry now? Yes.
Do I want one? Yes.
Will I buy one? No. Simple cost/benefit analysis due to my needs.
Thats it, perfectly summed up.
Have you ever used a red dot on a pistol?
The only interest I've had is putting one on a hunting pistol. As was mentioned in the video. Better accuracy at longer ranges. I dont really have any interest in putting one on a carry pistol.
This is the way
Give it more time, after a few more years the technology will not only be better but it will be more affordable.
A few other things to consider; there's a good chance you may need a new holster for it to fit with an optic mounted. So be prepared to buy one of those if that's the case. Also, in bright sun, into a lightly colored & highly lit target (or red/green)- good luck finding that red-dot. I've switched to green, and it's overall a little easier, but in some cases is still impossible. Same goes for a laser & the two colors/brightness. Some optics will cover your iron sights, depending on their base height and type of optic / rear-iron sight. If you can't see the dot, and your iron sights are covered, then you are just winging it. Don't rely on what happens at the range, because lighting conditions there and black targets are not the same as being outside in the sun into a white, or red (green) target. Some of the optic choices have a rear iron sight built into it, like the 507k. The 507c does not.
Chris, The practice on the draw stroke to present the dot window directly to the same spot was a great tip and is KEY.
I’m 60 years old. Seeing iron sights is much harder for me now than it was 30 years ago. Most of my carry guns have red dots now.
I’ve found that having suppressor height iron sights on my slide makes it easier for me to find the dot.
For the folks who say red dots will fail, over the years I’ve also had iron sights fail. I had a Dawson rear sight blade break. I’ve had a rear sight on a Kahr pistol come loose and drift off center. I had a front sight on a Springfield Armory 1911 come loose and drift off center. I’ve had a Glock front sight fall off (my bad on that one - didn’t loctite it). My red dot guns have backup iron sights. Every time I carry I check the red dot before holstering. If it does fail, I’ve got the irons.
Ok M1911, how much more likely is an optic to fail than iron sights? It's kind of meaningless to even compare the two.
@@percyfaith11Is a red dot more likely to fail than iron sights? Sure. But that is why you have backup irons. If all you have are irons and your iron sight fails, then you are point shooting.
I'm old as well and have red dots on all my competition guns with very few problems. But still I don't trust them for EDC.
Probably should, but damn, if it has a battery and microchips?.......
Old school = hard-head. Yea, maybe......lol
@@M1911jlnAfter 45 I switched to a rmr mounted on my edc Glock and it just worked great without the need for prescription eye pro. I too had the front sight go flying off my Glock. Taking care of the optic is just folded into my normal maintenance schedule. If you can clean a gun you can switch out batteries.
I dont carry a red dot because I live in a wet wet place and I'm not interested in breaking a multiple hundred dollar optic every time i go out in the woods.
I love the Rick Remington cameo!
Hi John!
U da man John
Johnny boy!
Hey there John!
Funny seeing you here John :)
LOVE the Ad Rock quote when you signed off! Easily one of the best ever Beastie Boys lines 💯.
Fantastic video Chris! I love this channel! I don't know why, but when it comes to red dots on pistols I turn into a 65 year old retiree. I have shot with red dots, I know they are fantastic optics that can really help someone acquire a sight picture incredibly quickly and efficiently. I also know that companies now are making red dots that are incredibly durable and well made, with a small footprint on the actual gun. I know all of these thing and yet....I can't bring myself to buy one. I completely understand why someone would want one, and how they are great, but for me I'll stick with my metal iron sights on my glocks, even if I can't properly explain why.
I have the exact same problem with red dot sights. Been shooting with irons for decades and I’m fast and comfortable with it. Yet every time I’ve tried to shoot with a red dot I look like a complete noob. And even with corrective lenses I just can’t focus on the dot. It’s a blurry mess for me. Doesn’t matter what brand it is, although the Sig red dots are the worst for me, holosun is the best fwiw. Might need to take some classes on it but I don’t know anyone that does red dot specific training courses in the state.
@@DIYDad1 no offense brother but if you’re trying to focus on the dot then you’re using it improperly. They’re designed so that you superimpose aka place the dot on the desired point of impact while maintaining focus on the target. If at any point you start trying to focus on the dot as if it were say a front sight you’ve misused the rds system. You could’ve have an astigmatism which that can be corrected by the eye doc if you already have to use corrective lenses. If you’ve only had a few instances with rds then yes it will genuinely suck in comparison to irons but it takes time to master.
To op: probably cost eh? Grab a .22 pistol with a pic rail or hell even a airsoft or bb pistol with a rail and cheap Amazon rds and get reps. Gives you an excuse to buy a new gun and if you hate it you’re not out a bunch of money. Just understand that you’re at literarily the bottom of the bin and things like reliably and durability can’t be something you equate to rds’ being bad. Just to feel it out.
@@OTG_Zulu yep, I have a very bad astigmatism. I even brought up the fact with my eye doctor that I can’t focus on red dot sights lol. He said they have a few patients with bad astigmatism. Maybe focus is the wrong word, but the red dot is blurry and all washed out so it totally covers the target. Even a small ish 2 moa dot it looks totally blown out. I just got a new prescription this week so I going to be trying it again and see if things improve.
@@DIYDad1 yeah I understand that. Hopefully it works out for you. Also different rds from dif manufacturers yield dif results. So if you can, ask ppl if you can look through their optics too.
Baker is always expert at breaking it down, with relative honesty.
I’ve been running a red dot on my carry pistol (sig p320c) for about a year now and I practice live fire at least once a month. I’ve made the decision to go back to iron sights (trijicon truglo) because I have found that from sweat and clothing lint the optics glass can get real dirty with smudges and when you go to find the dot your glass is very unclear. This has slowed me down for a while now. Whether it’s target acquisition, clearing malfunctions, or slide manipulation I feel better without the optic on the gun. I have tried to train through it but for me personally, I am just faster and more confident with irons. Rifles however I love the rds.
I had laser eye surgery and have 20/15 vision in my left eye (my dominant eye) and 20/20 in my right eye. I also still have astigmatism so I don’t see a dot, I see a fuzzy starburst.
I think it comes down to preference and what your training tells you.
Same.
I have bad close range sight myself. and having a red dot has, in practice helped me target acquire more efficiently. I cant go to the range as often as I want to but I do intend to hit it when I can. And honestly the issue I am finding is finding holsters that accommodate red dots over not fitting them.
Aramil Galendel, I have the P365 xl, and much to my surprise the holster for the Walther pps-m2 fit the Sig like it was meant to be. It leaves a 1/4" space for the red dot and "clicks in " perfectly. I still plan on getting a new holster for the Sig, but for now it works great!
Some things that keep me from switching are that a piece of lint in just the wrong spot will obscure the laser that's projecting the dot so you'd have no dot to see, any debris that gets onto the lens of the dot can completely obscure both the dot and your iron sights making the gun impossible to aim beyond point-shooting, and potential issues of the glass of the dot sight becoming obscured from moister either via condensation or via rain.
I run a closed emitter but sage dynamics goes over plenty of ways to overcome such an issue I think the video is called "handgun optic blockage" or something similar, make the plunge you wont regret it 👍
That's why you keep back up suppressor height irons that you can see through the glass. All quality red dots will have an antifog costing. You can also apply a 3rd party anti fog coating.
@Erozpl01 01 That solves issue 1, and most closed emitter designs are nitrogen purged so it pretty much solves issue 3, but it does nothing for issue 2. If, somehow, debris gets onto the lens to obscure it then even your iron sights become useless as they become obscured too. Also, most pistol RDS are the open emitter type currently so issues 1 and 3 are still present on most of them.
@Erozpl01 01 1: Yes there are both types available. Many of the most popular pistol RDS are not the closed emitter types, so it's still an issue with many, if not most, pistol mounted RDS.
2: A rear iron sight could be obstructed by debris, but that seems like it would be less of an issue than if a RDS were obstructed by debris. Rear iron sights are small, and so blowing on it would likely clear out any debris. The area of either, or both, the front and rear lens of a RDS are much larger and therefore might be more difficult to clear debris from.
As far as snow being the debris goes, I'd expect a shot or two to clear the sights. What about a sticky mud or something else that stays on a bit more than just frozen water? I'm not sure.
Went RMR last year and never looked back.
Went rmr last stimulus check..
now I'm homeless....
But at least I can threat focus poor iron sight and low budget rds users.. I feel sorry for them..lol
Jkjk even if i could well afford a rmr. I still wouldnt buy one.. the 1.price is not worth it
2. I don't buy any trijicon products due to over pricing.
3. I dont support selfish greedy companies..(hey that's my shape!! I have a patent on those two horns!! Ima sue u regardless if it would make ur optic strong and save lifes.!!)
4. I'm not a sheep and i think for myself.. thoe it may be tough and reliable. Well here's an update trijicon arnt the only ones who make a reliable durable/reliable optic.
@@lazarus1867 you should probably look up sage dynamics and his red dot testing. Well worth the money.
@@lazarus1867 You don't need to justify to us the reason why you don't feel like spending money on something...
@@lazarus1867 Holoson are about 1/2 the price of trijicons! They do everything the expensive ones do and then some. There are a couple of makers,swampfox, vortex are even lower price then the Holoson.
@@douglassalley9117 I like Vortex because they support the CCFR which is an advocate for Canadians. Unfortunately I’m stuck up here and can’t move back south, (although California and Washington have gone to the dogs so I’m not going back there).
Thanks, Chris, for another honest, informative, and valuable stage setting presentation as we “freshman” to the world of RedDot optics begin to form our own opinions during the decision making process.
One point that I can’t seem to get around, however, is the aesthetic of adding a visually and manually cumbersome product to a full or mid-sized pistol such as one of your favorites-the LSS Elite 9mm pistols, e.g., the Centurion model.
Not only do you now have to deal with a fairly limited number of holster choices…and the added complexity of drawing the weapon quickly, but the famously appealing, sleek beauty of the Beretta disappears under the piggy-back addition of an optical “contraption,” however useful.
In the end, at least with one of Ernest Langdon’s Elite pistols, it seems by adding you have in a sense taken away.
As a novice in these dominions, perhaps I am mistaken and the Centurion wouldn’t be more difficult to draw quickly, there would be no increased snagging, the benefits to shooter accuracy would add far more than might be given up and, with ‘new eyes’, the Beretta 90 series would still remain a thing of beauty!
What say ye?
My experience is to train target focused with iron sights. The gun and hands become a ghost image which makes it much easier to see the threat better. The front and rear sights become a dot when lined up correctly. This helps get rid of the tendency for iron sight shooters to want to look over there sights after their shots to see what happened to the target. A good analogy is using ghost ring sights like it common for rifles. Training the brain to look through the sights. Eye convergence and divergence training helps with this.
Info I was looking for this very day. I wear progressive glasses and don´t see the front sight, have shot point shooting with success, but hear top teachers talk focusing on the front sight. I can forecast that in a lethal encounter my reptile brain can be counted on to be focused on the Bad Guy, his movements, his reaching etc. I can see how a red dot will deal with all these topics.
I generally recommend green dots over red dots. Human eye picks up green easier than any other color, green dots are easier to see in direct sunlight, and green dots are easier to use for people with astigmatism (turn the brightness on a green down and cowitness it with BUIS).
Depends where you are. I shoot on my buddy's property and all the green vegetation makes it more difficult to acquire green, whereas the red has a bright distinctive contrast with the surrounding color scheme.
Red is better for low light/ dark environments
Green dots work well until you realize they eat up battery life while red uses the least battery
I had to shift to red dot/triangle sights when my Geezer Eyes caused issues when not in bright daylight. Transition took a couple of months of weekly training but this old dog learned the new trick. Mechanical presentation was the key to quick. Good video. Thank you.
My issue is that red dot sights make concealment harder for me. I need that pretty hard cant to conceal the grip well…but a red dot forces a less cant because it gets caught on the red dot
Too much cant gives you a poor initial grip when drawing. Have you tried using something like the Dark Star Gear Teardrop Wedge? A wedge can push the frame into your body more to conceal the frame better.
What spencer said, and if you want to do it on the cheap duck tape and foam.
It's a bit fugly but it works.
After 45 I switched to an rmr and Holosun on my edc carry guns and it worked for me. No need for prescription bi focal eye pro. I folded my optic care into my maintenance schedule so replacing a weak battery was as routine swabbing the bore and slide lubrication. I really find it weird that the same guys who think having a rifle optic is mandatory also think a pistol optic is unreliable or a frivolous luxury.
Holosun 507C with the ACSS reticle makes finding the dot when presenting laughably easy. I highly recommend everyone pick one up and see the difference. Mike of Mrgunsandgear has a very accurate review on how revolutionary the ACSS reticle is to the red dot industry.
The dovetail/adapter method for mounting red dots is actually pretty good. Conversely, if one browses some forums, folks will find many companies offering milling, but botching the job (sloppy, excessively large cuts, crooked cuts, etc). Great stuff, as always!
Regarding finding the red dot, check out the Vulcan by Primary Arms
God....if they’d just offer that same reticle in the 509t...
All personal preference but you hit on exactly why I changed my mind. My previous EDC was a 365 that I added a Holosun to. No doubt I was more accurate with it. But for SD and that split-second decision when drawing I much prefer iron sights. The dot does not always get target acquisition in a split second. I didn't like the feel of it at all. My new EDC is now a Shield Plus and sticking with the Ameriglo Pro I-Dots and not looking back. A real costly mistake I made. Would say the Red Dot is better for everything except for SD. And maybe more practice and dry-firing would have resolved but was not taking the chance. Thank you.
One thing that helps finding the dot is using the HS507C-X2 with the ACSS Vulcan reticle, it can help prompt you the right way when you are off target and can't find your dot.
Thank you for the mention.
Great information and an interesting topic. I am not at a point where I feel the need for one, but I know friends who swear by them after they spent significant time training. Personally, I have difficulty acquiring the dot, even on a rifle. I also wonder if real world application lends itself to an optic. I have seen a lot of self defense videos and often times the person doesn’t have the time to even get two hands on the gun, so I would imagine that acquiring the dot would be more challenging.
I have also seen instructors suggest that even trying to line up your sights is a waste of time. They teach people how to shoot accurately without even using sights.
Finally, I think that if you train with one and do your best to simulate real world scenarios, you can become proficient. So, if your eyesight is better served with an optic, then go for it.
Excellent. To the point. Humble. Uses science. No wonder I subscribed to this page so long ago.
Well it depends, do you want to be able to shoot, shoot and run, or do you want to be able to fight against equal or disadvantageos odds, or just fight hard to your maximum potential?
A handgun is all good and well, but its not a very good active fighting tool, fighting with rifles and other long guns is much more effective agaist any threat (not to mention when your opponent has a rifle and you have a hadngun). Handguns also suffer when body armor is present, as its hard to engage unarmored body parts effectively (compared to a rifle which can do so much more effectively and easily).
A red dot helps you close on these mentioned iron sights defiiciencies. A red dot helps you fight more quickly, further out or closer in, with more flexibility and effectivness. So if you want to shoot, you don´t need to have it, if you want to fight and fight hard against equal or bad ods, you´re better off with one.
I love what John from ASP said, every gun fight is an open division but you gotta run what you brought.
sticking around for Chris' closing comments makes my day
Chris is one of the keenest minds with regards to the subject of firearms. Hats off to this brother.
For all of human history, we've been dispatching bad guys by focusing on the threat. Then, we put these small nubs on our handguns and all of a sudden all of that has to change. Now, we have a technology that allows us to shoot and compliments the way our body works, and it feels weird because we've put so much time and energy into the inferior system. But, red dots are the future and the future is now.
Right up until you need it, and it fails or is covered in sweat/rain/dirt/mud.
@@harbingertheheretic3541 There are a lot of tough optics out there that have proven records of reliability, most notably the Trijicon RMR.
@@harbingertheheretic3541 I just took Scott Jedlinski's legendary red dot course this weekend.
If you ever actually get impeded by rain, he said "use the big dot in the middle".
For mud, he said "wtf are you worrying about mud for? And even if you did drop your gun into mud, guess what, your iron sights can be occluded by mud too".
@@harbingertheheretic3541 Make sure you tell the military to stop using optics too like they have been for decades now.
@@harbingertheheretic3541 why do we make exceptions for rifles? It’s so standard to mount an optic on a rifle, and we are at the point where we have pistol optics that are just as reliable as those rifle mounted optics and yet there are still naysayers. Granted there will always be, but if you’re worried about the elements blocking your dot projection, then get an enclosed optic.
I've carried most of my life, now well past retirement age. I just this spring (2023) started carrying with a red dot attached. As a geezer, I am HUGELY helped with the Holosun 507c with the Vulcan ACSS reticle from Primary Arms. The very large red circle is NOT visible at all at arms length if the pistol is aligned correctly. It IS visible if the arm is too far off target. That's where this reticle shines - IF the pistol is not aligned correctly, some segment of the red circle will be visible to show there shooter which way there arm needs to be moved to see the center dot/chevron. It is VERY intuitive and has a very short learn curve. I've used red dots on rifles for some years, so I'm not new to the concept, but as mentioned, the rifle red dot is quite easy to use - so long as one's cheek is in the proper place on the stock. Pistol red dots DO take training, and perhaps a lot of it. The ACSS reticle cuts that training time to 25% or even less. ACSS reticle from Primary Arms is a game changer!
Great info and well presented! Personally, I’m a BIG fan of Lasermax internal (guide rod) lasers for my carry pistols. No special holsters needed, no extra snagging protrusions and inherently incredibly accurate due to the closest possible proximity to the bore axis of the pistol…..oh, and no sighting-in necessary for the same reason! Plus I can also run tritium fiber optic irons as a guaranteed day/night backup!
Reduced reliability though
I’m a Crims🟢nTrace LaserGRIPS guy and I’m going to put Trijicons on both of my Glocks .
I've never had much luck with reflex sights. The tube red dots work great for me. Ended up going with lasers for my M9A3s. TLR-8AG for my house gun and a CMR-206 for the field gun.
I love them, but you don't NEED them in self defense unless you're trying to snipe an active shooter from a distance without missing.
You can point shoot center mass within 15ft.
True, if point shooting is difficult for you, try a different gun. I can point shoot accurately and super fast with a VP9, but I’m all over the place with the PPQ.
I agree with this. I wanted to get one but if I'm in a self defense situation I will most likely pull point and shoot and not have to worry about looking for a dot.
@@orionatayI was on the fence for a long time, but in the minute chance a family member is close to or being attacked by an attacker and the shot has to be perfect, I’d trust the dot over my ability to line up sights.
the situation i see a dot actually being of any use is some kind of shooting situation in public. that means you might be a bit away from where the action is, and the consequences of missinc can be high, either through hiting bystanders, or the shooter getting more shots off). most shootings where you are a participant from the start are close enough where you should be hitting your shots with irons.
@@orionatay if you don't need to look at the dot, don't. But if you find yourself in a situation in which the dot would help and you doubt have it... better to have it and not need it?
This guys videos are terrific, clear and concise.
Red dots are good, but no, really not necessary on a carry handgun
Very good basic discussion for those of us who have not gotten into the handgun red dot world yet. Thank You.
For now I am perfectly fine with my iron sights.
Consistently making 40 yard shots with my 22 semiauto with irons inside a 6" group. I'm fine with irons, for now.
Yeah, same. tbh it just seems like a way to sell more accessories and classes. I'll stick with my revolver.
@Erozpl01 01 ok
@@OutsideTheTargetDemographic Do it under the adrenaline rush of a gun fight, while blurring your target to focus on the front sight post.. past 10-15m irons are almost useless when the target is moving and also shooting at you while your brain dumps the biggest adrenaline shock you've ever had.
@@noonenoesbutme Militaries the world over expect just this from their fighting men, and have for centeries. I never said the red dots don't have benefits, but I will say it again:
*More weight
*More mass
*More expense
*More training
*More complexity
*Introduce electronics into the equation
*Introduce batteries into the equation
*Introduce glass into the equation
*Introduce an eyebox/tunnel into the equation
*Introduce maintenance to the equation
*Reduce the number of holster options
I have tried a red dot Sig 355, and while it increased accuracy for me, that return on investment did not out weight the above list of drawbacks.
Very good review. I have been shooting pistols with red dots for several years and am completely sold on them.
The best guntuber around. Especially now that we know he's intercontinental.
Im one of those that at normal self defense distances the red dots didnt really offer me any benefit. However once the distance got out there, even to 100 yards, they were very helpful and pretty cool. Im actually planning on putting a pistol together with a red dot to see if i can kinda force myself to get better with one up close, we'll see though.
A red dot would look great on my 38 snub nose revolver.
And an 800 lumens weapon light!
For me regular laser is good enough on my Bodyguard 38.
@@emiramick5305 probably a laser is the best option for this kind of gun.
You should weld a rmr plate on it in your garage !
This is awesome. Thank you. I recently put a DPP on my P10F. I was hesitant at first but I LOVE it. It is amazing.
I recently started using red dots, the most recent is a Sig P365 xl with the Romeo 0. The best way for me is to remember to keep the muzzle more upward on the draw.I'm of the opinion that the Holosun 507c,which has a 32moa circle with a 3moa dot works better for initial sight acquisition. Making a raggedy hole at 15yrds is fairly easy after a few hundred rds down range. It's definitely worth it to me!
What do you think of that Romeo Zero?
Love the Beastie Boys reference at the end there! I grew up on that album!
It's most likely you're gonna use your gun to shoot a target at less than 7 yards. Iron sights aren't needed at this distance, let alone red dots. And seeing footage most pp will point shoot during these situations. Train point shooting. It's free, fast and reliable
Self defense situations? More like 10 feet most of the time. Under stress you will focus on the target, not the sights. For me, a carry pistol needs to be small enough to conceal, yet a service caliber. It needs to be reliable and shaped to avoid snagging clothing. Unless you're on the SWAT team, I don't understand this fascination with gadgets on a carry gun. It seems everyone wants 800 lumens of light and an optic sight on a little P365 or Shield Plus.
Yes, my bedside pistol has a light. When I carry that pistol, I take the light off.
Sights? The dots on the rear sight distract me, so I black out the dots with a sharpie and we're good.
If a threat is far enough away that I need an optic to reliably hit it, I probably don't need to shoot at it.
Exactly my point also.
7 yards is 21 feet..... thats ideal red dot distance might want to try taking a force on force class in my anecdotal experience the defensive encounters I've experienced are around 10 yards on average
@@joeschmo5403 -- 21 feet would also be ideal if all you had was a brass bead like a shotgun.
@@HalfCrazy520 ha yes long guns are always a better choice if you can get away with one I use a rifle but thats a personal preference for me shotguns are awesome
I could listen to this guy all day long
Why does this guy look like he's going to start remodeling my house?
So in your kitchen we've removed a wall, moved the fridge, and put in a firing range.
The dinning flows directly into the den and also features a firing range. Upstairs the master bedroom has a walk in firing range and an included master bath that has a classic claw foot tub and apron sink.
It’s the beard lol
Can't stand that beard on his face. Totally doesn't suit him
He's cute and y'all are mad 😂
@@anarchist_parable chill out, you're married
Chris, thank you for explaining whatever firearm topic you teach about so well. You are gifted. I have learned so much from you. May I call you the "professor"?
Do you need one? No! But do you want one? HELL YEAH!
As I am over 50 now, and always have had eye glasses, I recently had a local gunsmith change my factory iron sights to Tritium sights (red forward and green rear). I have noticed a huge improvement in my presentation speed. My EDC is a S&W 686 with a 4" barrel.
Matt, what sights did you get? I am looking for improved sights in my 686. I had Meproilight, but the front blade was too low and I was shooting high. Glad I found your post .... please advise! Thank you.
@@Zona-dw9rp I had my gunsmith put on a set of Trijicon. I'm not sure what model. Hed had to do some custom work. But it was well worth it.
@@mattbrown5511 Thank you. Enjoy your 686 - great gun. Shoot safe.
Im talking banging an 8in plate easily at 100 yards with a 3.9 in barrel they are wonderful I'm converting all my pistols to rds
Okay, but is that relevant to self-defense?
@@kirk2767 well I'm gonna tell you this from personal experience if you can do that and have a great grip technique you can burn it down up close and it's relevant in almost every other aspect of shooting
@@kirk2767 threat focus is relevant
@@kirk2767 it is when your the person shooting at you (or others if you find yourself in a mass shooter situation). You will not survive a 25-50m fight against an AR15 with irons. With a rds you can take those long shots accurately while keeping 100% situation awareness because your point of focus is on the target not the front sight post (which at 25m is likely blocking your view of the target).
@@kirk2767 If you can shoot 100 yards everything 50 and in is a cake walk. You are a better shooter for it even at short distances.
If you dry fire you can nail down presentation pretty quickly with a red dot. You can really dial in a zero and a hold , that is huge to me. At 10 yards you can plug quarters all day long , its great.
My red dot on a handgun is actually a laser. My vision isn't perfect, but the dot from a red laser is beyond easy to see. A person doesn't need to have excellent sighting ability, just good trigger control, and a dialed in laser, and they can shoot extremely accurately.
But only at a specific distance. (Point of intersection between bore and laser). After that it is way more complicated. With an RDS it is almost negligible up to 50 uards and more.
@@pmular Sure, you set the laser for a specific distance that point of aim and impact meet. Before that point, starting at the muzzle, the difference is the greatest, which is the distance between the center of the barrel and the laser. A small handgun, like a Hellcat, to me is at most a 25yd gun anyway. If I dial the laser to 7yds, the difference between point of aim and impact beyond that distance is negligible at 25yds. I have not tried a red laser beyond 25yds, but green is a different story. I put a green laser on an AR platform for fun, and it certainly was fun. It's primary optic was a vortex red dot. I'll just say that the laser was easier to aquire a target at 100yds than the dot, but the 2 MOA dot was decent out to that distance. Beyond 100yds, maybe even out to 300, the laser although a pretty big dot, would be easier for me, but I'd probably use an LPVO instead on an AR type rifle. Strike Eagles are decent for the money. I don't knock the dot, anything you can use to shoot more accurately is good. People do seem to dog on lasers, and I certainly can say that I kinda did too... Until I set one up. For the distances used, lasers are amazing. In low light conditions, a laser is the easiest thing I've ever used to quickly, and accurately pop a target. I will say that I've been thinking about getting an RDP... and mounting a laser on it for fun. Shooting is a blast.
Honest review ! Enjoy the point of view and self- criticism in your own skills. That is a rare trait on RUclips gun channels.
Semper Fi
I have dots on all my firearms except revolvers and on micro pocket gun. I think red dots are great.
I've mounted them on revolvers. Works great but locating mounts can take some research. S&W revolvers are simple.
Older models have to be drilled and tapped, newer models, easy peasey.
If you like red dots, I wouldn't haste to put them on your revolvers.
I've only used a pistol optic once, and the difference was startling! For defensive use, a huge benefit of not having to focus on sights is that you can watch the threat and more easily determine if any movements are actually threatening.
Exactly this. A huge thing ppl forget or straight up don’t even see when talking about rds on pistol.
@@OTG_Zulu I only recall seeing it mentioned once, by a police officer.
And all you guys have been through a self-defense situation? Funny, all the interviews I've watched regarding actual self-defense they've all said, they wish they never had accessories on their carry weapon.
One of the better explanations of pistol red dots. Do I have one? yes. Do I carry it? No, just too slow compared to a big front sight.
Training is key
I switched to a red dot on my G19 recently and I absolutely love it
I want my carry piece to be as comfortable, compact and inconspicuous as possible, adding lasers, sights and lights makes it less of those three criteria in all aspects and increases the likelihood it gets left at home.
I carry a FN 509c tactical with a trijicon rmr type 2 and streamlight tlr7. Comfortable and printing is never an issue. I'd rather need it and have it than need it and not have it. Those 2 attachments can make a difference in varying circumstances.
Adding a reflex sight on a pistol adds almost no bulk or perceived weight or printing. I have reflex sights on 4 pistols and none of the optics on them change the comfort of carrying said pistol. But it makes me an astronomically better shot because a sighted in red dot tells you EXACTLY where your shots will go.
@@robertsims9201 Yeah,but at 5 to 7 yards in a quick,close encounter emergency, do you really need it to get the job done? I think that's the question. The "real need" vs optional equipment.
@@williamryan7403 ...exactly, trigger time is what's needed, not gadgets.
@@williamryan7403 can you be sure that you will only need to shoot within 7 yards?
I am 68 now and put a red dot and light on the bedside firearm and practiced with it. I think I am taking dot and light off and go back to flashlight and iron sights.
I got my first mrds my old Glock 9 months ago. I payed more for the sight and milling than I did for the gen5 19. Every handgun I carry or rely on for defence now has a red dot lol. It is the way of the future. I've worked on my presentation relentlessly to get the sight picture. Thousands and THOUSANDS of draws to make sure I'll see a dot. I've killed groundhogs at 25-30 yards with an rds and hit them in the front shoulders or neck. I couldn't have done that with irons. Consistently anyway. We can't pick the defensive encounter we hopefully never get in. It could be 1 foot or 50 yards and we have to close on it to save others. A mrds gives me confidence to take longer shots and get good hits
Props for that last comment. I was not expecting that, you got a literal 'lol'.
Sounds like a hassle. I guess I’ll stick with iron sights. Great video.
Thanks for posting this.
Best explanation I have heard
Chris started this segment with the "I'm not an expert" disclaimer. This isn't the first time he's said it, nor is this the first channel I've heard use it.
I'd really like to see Chris do a video on a topic that he considers himself to be a subject matter expert on. I want to see him talk about something he's super knowledgeable and excited about.
It'd be something like:
So today I'm going to talk about how to market an online ammo store through community engagement and online presence.
Step 1: Have ammo
Step 2: You no longer have ammo.
So that's all for today folks.
Beanie Babies. Chris is super knowledgable about TY Beanie Babies. Guy wont stop talking about them if you get him started.
There is not any topic I would consider myself an expert on. I can give competent advice on a wide variety of shooting-related topics because I generally know who the experts are on those topics. On the flip side, most of the actual experts aren't particularly good at presenting on camera or editing video and firearms training is not a lucrative enough trade that they can typically hire someone to do those things for them. It's generally best to let the experts be experts and let the people who know how to make compelling content focus on doing that
Need? Probably not. But, its a pretty big help once you put in the work. I’ve got an RMR on my every day gun. I can still shoot irons just fine, but I’m better with the dot now. It was a small step back at first. It took 3 or 4 months of dry fire (15-30 minutes 3 or 4 times per week) and a few range trips to get my dot performance up to where I had been with irons. But then I kept improving after that.
Great breakdown. I would like to see more comparisons of red dots vs. laser sights. Lasers allow you to be target focused moreso than red dots imho. Additionally they give you the ability to target without using a traditional stance. The obvious downside to laser sights... bright daylight, but regardless of sunlight it is very easy to see a laser indoors. Lasers are bulky like red dots, but they are more out of the way than red dots.
The iron sights on my firearms have got fuzzier as they get older (LOL)...It's Illegal to hunt with a laser in my state and I like the Sig Romeo05 red dot on my rifle a lot. I've a Lima365 on my P365 and it melts into the profile with most of my holsters. It is instantly with a proper grip and I can see it in almost all lighting....I can see that a red dot floating reticle in an optic is superior to iron sights (with aging eyes) but are there any advantages to a projected 'red dot' laser?
I always appreciate the honest, no macho and concise approach that your website employs. Well done and this is a great episode to start the logical
thinking about whether or not to dip one's toe into the red dot pool. Good job, thanks!
I shoot irons well enough and went shooting with a friend that had a red dot on his Glock I was able to accurately shoot it immediately. It seemed easier mainly. I'm not going to switch though because I shoot a Beretta and the slide alone is $500-600 without the optic so I can buy a new gun for what I'll spend on a dot with the needed slide. It's not worth it for me. I wasn't more accurate it was just easier overall. Also my friend was extremely accurate with the irons because of practice with the dot and vice versa for me
Don't NEED one.. But, I prefer it for EDC... There are a lot of easy EDC firearms and dots that are geared for the slimmer stuff... The Sig 365 XL (etc) and its relatives in similar sized weapons. I was a late bloomer to the dot / halo scene. Years ago I pretty much know exactly where my favorite pistols are pointing, relatively speaking. That being said, especially in a high pressure situation, I absolutely am all about "red dots"... I cannot beat my best times (at speed) with "irons".. My 80 year old Vietnam vet who brought my brother and I up with firearms (and responsibility that goes without saying) just this year finally agreed to shoot dot optics... The look on his face was way past "priceless". He said, "YOU are CHEATING!!" "Which one should I order!?!" So, as far as I know, he has 4 mounted on a.variety of handguns now and 1 shotgun... He wanted to replace the 3x Looped Gold Ring on his 629 .44 mag, which I took up hunting with over rifles here in Texas.. I may get with him and compare and contrast results on that platform...
Support the vets. We owe them everything.
I’m really glad this channel avoids coming off as advertising for specific products but given that the training barrier is the biggest obstacle and the 507 ACSS completely changes the learning curve for a pistol mounted red dot, I can’t see how in 2021the ACSS reticle can be left out of the discussion.
Thanks for the nice video. Handgun optic sights are truly great. I standardized on the Holoson 507c-x2. In my opinion, the 32 MOA circle with the 2 MOA dot makes target acquisition easier than a small single dot. You can also select a single 2 MOA dot as well. I sold my Vortex Venom RDO after shooting with Holoson. I have astigmatism and some far sightedness. I can shoot my handguns with optics without my glasses easily and accurately. I struggle to do that with my iron sights even though I have fiber optic fronts. I shoot irons well with my glasses. However, on gray days with dim light, the optic sight is hands down the winner. In my opinion one complication with the red dot sightsis the dot intensity setting. Lighting conditions can change and you may bring your gun up with a dot that is too dim, not visible or overly bright. Some RDOs have automatic brightness but that only measures ambient light not target brightness; there can be a huge difference so I do not use auto brightness. So, you have to be adapt at changing your dot intensity if required or switching to the co-witness backups. I have two carry guns. An M&P 2.0 Compact with a Holoson 507c-x2 and a M&P 9mm EZ with Wilson combat iron sights. My M&P Compact has an Apex trigger. My favorite gun to shoot with an RDO is my Beretta 92 with a Langdon RDO slide and the Holoson 507c-x2. Of course it has a custom trigger too.
So now I wonder how sometimes you never know
Who be rockin y'all in stereo in sterereo (in sterereo) (in sterereo!)
Indeed.
Im a red dot sight convert. Never thought I would be, but im a believer now. They really help some people, some they dont. It depends.
When are we getting a Manny's guide to pancakes
I’m over a half century in age and my iron sights are barely visible blobs. However, within 25 yards I can consistently and reliably hit center mass. I just point the gun center mass and as long as I have a good trigger pull the rounds hit center mass. Mastering the fundamentals will allow you to not have to
Go to your sights. I would use optics in the event I have to make precise shots.
Yours is my favorite gun channel next to She Equips Herself. I love gun content that isn't layered with weird machismo and a vaguely racist sense of what patriotism is. Just good information delivered in a friendly tone. Subscribed 🥰
Great Video. I've been on the fence about a re dot, and this gave me some helpful info to help me decide. Thanks