(Seth) Since we recorded this podcast I've played with Arena of Glory a bunch in Modern and Timeless and I was wrong. The card is really good. You don't activate it very often, but when you do its incredibly powerful.
I actually just came here from the podcast to say Seth's take on arena of glory is downright bizarre. Worst case it's just a mountain. When something comes up for it though. Potentially two hasted creatures at no cost during the turn you're trying to make a big play with the haste. Almost certainly not using it on a solemn simulacrum...
Yeah, it didn't even make sense to mention it in the discussion on Copy Land because you don't have to worry about it getting swept up by Farewell. In this magical world where everyone always has Farewell, you're playing blue, so you always have a counterspell.
I thought about this one before but there is a 3drop artifact called manascape refractor that essentially does the same if used with fetches and was simmilarily hyped but it doesn't realy perform great either. Its about 1$ now to give perspective.
@@devan9197either way, unless you have recursion on them, like a muldrotha or something, i doubt they are gonna be much better than regular manarocks. That said, they are certainly more interesting and have a heigher cieling so we will see.
@@Shimatzu95 I think it's definitely better than most mana rocks. It is still a land so it doesn't get swept up in any of the non land board wipes. I think that makes it better than most 3 mana rocks but not two mana rocks.
31:30 hostage taler is a good analysis because both spells cost 4 and let you cast the exiled thing afterwards. Pros of appropriation: instad speed, hits anything, the opponent cant get it back Pros of taker: is an creature etb, an be flickerd
34:24 As long as you don’t have access to green or white, I’d argue Steal Enchantment is very playable. People also play Feed the Swarm to get rid of enchantments and the way I see it, Steal enchantment is even better
Planar Genesis seems great bc if you don't want a land and are searching for a nonland card that may be relevant to the boardstate at the time (removal, counter, combo piece etc) then you "may" choose not to put a land in tapped and instead put a card into hand, plus no reveal! So no one knows what you snagged
seth...shadow of the second sun is you guessed it(well you didnt actually) similar to Sphinx of the second sun...Dont understand the confusion with the ruling when its effect has been out forever...
I don’t know if I necessarily agree with that. I think “what about farewell” is an extremely valid reason to put cards *in* your deck, so I think the argument isn’t entirely unreasonable
"Dies to removal" (or sweeper in this case) is a common argument and it's often not applied properly and it isn't being applied properly here. It's a good argument against cards that don't generate immediate value or have a high mana cost. An example would be that you'd never tell someone to not run a Spirited Companion (aka the Richard special) because Farewell can sweep it up by choosing enchantment. That's because you already would've drawn a card and it only cost 2. That's not including other forms of value you could've gotten off it (blink, chump block before the Farewell, equip, enchantress stuff, etc.). Copy Land is 3 mana, and gets you immediate value most of the time. It's a land you can tap for mana, and you could copy a land with an etb like Mystic Sanctuary. Same principle applies to mana rocks. If your rocks get swept up that certainly sucks, but chances are you already generated meaningful value/progress off of them by the time they get wiped.
I know what you mean, but hear me out. If you're scared of Farewell, it might not be a good idea to put a Mycosynth Lattice in your deck unless you want all your lands exiled.
I think they discounted it too quickly. It's great for U/x decks that play on opponents turns. It always replaces itself. If you have flash heavy things, it's a recurring extra turn spell. Otherwise it's just a bad howling mine.
Card is better than they think. Perfect for commanders with mana sinks for example. Draws and extra card and for these types of deck nearly doubles the mana. I'm already putting it into two of my decks.
Idk why. The card is busted most blue decks are good at playing both instant speed and tapping out for good cards like rhystic study concentrated sphinx etc. then being able to cast those and hold up counter magic all while drawing an extra card
I was a little surprised with the confusion, since it's the same effect as on Sphinx of the Second Sun (obviously, hence the name reference), which I thought is basically the meme of biggest misunderstood and misplayed card in recent memory. I know I definitely misplayed that card and was similarly disappointed when I found out I shouldn't have won that game. At least not that way. I think it's still a fine, fun card, but it's a far cry from busted or even very powerful.
Richard on Atraxa: "I mean, the card is okay, big body, lots of keywords, draws you some cards. But it's just gonna draw removal and get you killed, am I wrong?!" Laughs
I love the adjectives the crew use as catchphrases. Tomer: "This card is bananas." Seth: "This card is busted!" Richard: "This card is doodoo." Crim: "This card is The Truth."
Oh Richard. Copy Land is so good. Dies to sweeper/removal is not a good argument against an enchantment land. That's as durable as a dual card type gets. Also Richard! You should see how good this is more than anyone. It can come down and copy Mystic Sanctuary which we know you love.
It’s a perfectly fine argument it’s 3 mana ramp which is already not good. It gets hit by enchantment sweepers which is a ton of the most played sweepers in the format. It has a cute upside of being able to copy busted lands but most times you are just going to play it turn 3 copying a basic or dual
@@peewee0224 hard disagree. It being 3 mana is a valid argument against it but that's irrelevant to the sweeper argument. There aren't a ton of sweepers that hit enchantments. That's just not true. There are some good ones and they see play. It's upside happens to be controllable. Point is that it's an argument but not a good one. Dies to sweeper needs to be applied to cards that will realistically be hit before getting any value. That's where that along with the broader "dies to removal" becomes a valid argument. If Farewell for example was a valid reason to not play cards that it hits, I wouldn't be playing any non-land non-planeswalker cards. I also wouldn't be using my graveyard.
@@d.a.d.-ohgosh so no the argument isn’t a dies to removal argument it’s a it’s not as safe as green land ramp. It’s more akin to manascape refractor and literally nobody plays that card.
@@peewee0224 getting swept up is absolutely a dies to removal argument. That's the very nature of it. This board wipe exists. It removes the card. Therefore the card is susceptible to being removed. Also referring to green as better ramp is a mute point. Of course it is. Not all decks are green. That does nothing to dismiss the viability of a card. With that logic we'd never play decks that exclude green because ramp in Commander is so valuable. I'm open to arguments against it but not the argument that it gets swept up by Farewell. That applies to literally every permanent type other than battles, planeswalkers and lands. I'm not going to stop running creatures or any other permanent type because of Farewell. That doesn't make any sense at all.
Richard is never going to give up the dies-to-removal argument. At some point, cards are either so good that they are worth the attention it draws (rhystic study) or innocuous enough in effect on board state that it will do work (propaganda). Sometimes you have to test a card before you write it off entirely, because it is not wise to predict table behavior/reaction to a card you have never played against or with.
I agree. If a card fits nicely in my curve and has synergy with my deck, the fact that it is bait for removal is even better becausel that’s one less removal spell waiting for my commander.
For the mana-base idea, why not have a basic structure of about 45 cards or something, and then you can add both the ramp package and the lands you'd put into that specific deck?
It's funny how according to Richard removing a player from the game is like a game action you can just take. Seth: I play Argent Dais. Pass. Richard: Untap, Upkeep, Draw. Precombat Main Phase, I'm just gonna take the "remove player from game action" targeting Seth. Seth: Well, I got no response to that. Good game, Richard.
It's moreso that Commander players have a reputation of irrationally tunneling (and continuing to tunnel) when anyone does anything targeted against them and/or has a "loaded gun" on the table.
@@gdmikester4302 Actually other way around, Richard is really good in redirecting heat and point out other "threats" which is basically player removal.
Well, when you have 3 people targeting you unless your deck is of a higher power than everyone else you die in 2 turns (starting from when you play the scary permanent) if you fail to combo off
@@guico33 They've been dead, and the printing of Arcane signet is what killed them. It's sad to see that even low power EDH is about optimizing. That's not what the format was intended to be about.
Richard's take on Spymaster's Vault has the same energy as his initial take on the surveil lands. For someone who likes utility lands, he has some really bad takes on them.
Y'all (with the exception of Phil) are sleeping on Volatile Stormdrake. The card is a blue staple, but only the cEDH crowd and energy players are looking at it.
I'm with ya. It's solid. Gilded Drake is amazing. Volatile Stormdrake is probably slightly worse. I mean, a card can be much worse than a slightly worse version of an existing phenomenal card. I've tried it and so far I've got nothing but good things to say.
To be fair I think it might be stronger than Gilded Drake because if you don't pay the energy you get to sacrifice the permanent. Which is great against stax pieces, whereas Gilded Drake just gives you the stax piece which usually won't help you because it effects everyone.
You guys gotta step outside your own edh sphere sometimes :D Imagine Abtruse Apporpriation exiling their The One Ring and now you get a second one for your deck
I mean if you're losing your Copy Land to Farewell you're losing your mana rocks too. So I don't think 'just run a mana rock' is really a proper response to it. Enchantments aren't invulnerable, sure, but I agree with Seth that they're *less* vulnerable in general than artifacts. There's more 'end the game' artifacts than 'end the game' enchantments and even with the latter people are saving enchantment removal for *those* not Copy Land unless you copied a broken-in-context land and *made* Copy Land an 'end the game' enchantment.
I agree with your general point that artifacts are more powerful, but I've definitely seen more enchantments that specifically say "You win the game" on them. Darksteel reactor is the only artifact I can think of that does that.
@@TheCatHerder It was more meant as in terms of being part of combos and whatnot as opposed to alternate win conditions. Cards that, if left on the table, mean that player is going to come out on top.
Shadow of the Second Sun is Wilderness Reclamation on steroids. It does the same thing as Wilderness Reclamation except you get to untap all your permanents, you get an additional draw step and you get additional upkeep triggers. Maybe not a staple but very good in blue control decks.
@@MTGGoldfishCommander I think it's a card that you play in land based decks that have strong utility lands that want to be copied. It comes in the Omo precon which has cards like Cloudpost and as you guys mentioned in the podcast, you can play it with Cabal Coffers/Urborg. It feels like it's an extra Vesuva in those types of decks. I certainly wouldn't jam it into every blue deck, but ones that are built around land strategies I think would want to have this.
Not putting Amphibian Downpour on this list hurts the soul but I get it they only have so many slots. Not only is amphibian downpour good for enchantress decks, it is a mini board wipe/ potentially time walking your opponents in your favor. If someone casts 2 to 4 spells on their turn, you then cast amphibian downpour frogify all your opponent's commanders and 1 or 2 value creatures. Let them attack their frogs into each other and recast their commanders.
One thing I think that is being missed about Arena of Glory against the other haste enabling lands is that it doesn't leave a window to respond if you're hasting in a creature with a tap ability. The other lands mentioned require you to give up priority by targeting the creature to give it haste while Arena gives it haste and you can immediately activate it without getting blown out.
Arena of Glory: This is neutral mana cost Flamekin Village costs -"2" mana, not -1. Hall of the Bandit Lord is a tapland and costs 3 life. But it's neutral mana. Hanweird Battlements isn't a tapland, but is colorless and also costs -"2" mana. Slayer's Stronghold is -"3" mana, but gives power and vigilance as well. Colorless. The backside of Dowsing Device is the best for violence+haste, but it's -"4" mana. Arena of Glory is great if you are casting multiple creatures in a turn.
Richard logic: it dies to board removal= bad card Also Richard logic: birds are great, boompile works, durdling = great game play. What timeline has Richard fallen into because this is the avengers level threat we really need to worry about
I kind of get his idea: why play strong cards that get you killed, when you can play a small Tribe that does not get you killed and others use their answers and not you? EDIT: But still, commander is to play the cards you want. even if they don't always get to perform that well.
Spymasters vault is insane. i'm even running it in modern and it's legit. don't forget cards like grave pact. you have like 2 guys die and all the sudden you can connive 8
Abstruse appropriation. i play hostage taker all the time. stealing sol rings and one rings and any other type of ring is dope with that card. being able to flicker it is better but i still think that should guide how you feel about his card.
I know everyone memes on the guys for bringing up Farewell when analyzing most cards, but to be fair, that is the meta that they play in. I will say at least for myself, my LGS doesn’t see many Farewells played because it’s generally a salty card that slows the game down rather than progressing the casters game plan. With that in mind, assuming most card shops are likely of a similar thought process, I think it’s safe to say that it’s detrimental to the objective analysis of a card to claim it’s bad or less-good because of it getting wiped to a Farewell. You guys could post a poll on how often players cast or see a farewell played to finally put a statistic to how important it is to judging the quality of a card.
Honest question, how do you feel about territory forge? It feels very similar, but as an artifact in red, and your opponent’s land (or artifact) isn’t retrievable
Chittering dispatcher is so underrated. No one will counter it or kill it before you get your first attack in (though they should). For 2G you get 6 creature etbs and three colorless mana back. That’s the minimum. If you have advantageous attacks it only get better. If you are a clone/copy deck your ramping even more and artisticrats gets more ltbs for cmc than any other noncombo card. What’s not to love? Why aren’t more people talking about this?
Copy Land is busted in Simic, I'm not sure why the crew is poo-pooing all over it in green decks. Green and blue allows you to crop rotation, open the way, and sowing mycospawn etc for non basics. Copy Land then becomes a second copy of your field of the dead, cradle, or any other Land that green decks can very easily tutor into play. The new Omo deck is a perfect example of copying utility lands in simic. Missed opportunity guys.
I wish y’all would say the name of each card a few more times, especially after you’re done talking about it. I am sure that folks who usually watch the video have visual cues but as a listener, sometimes I have to skip back 5-6 minutes to figure out what “this” is, after deciding I definitely want to get it. Please just repeat the name of the card whenever you’re ready to move on 😅
Guide of Souls has been amazing for my Eowyn list. For a single mana it pumps a creature every turn, gains some life, and gives the deck some much-needed flying. It's also good enough that I started including the original Ranger of Eos, so I can grab some of the really good 1-drops. Mother of Runes Weathered Wayfarer Guide of Souls Reinforced Ronin Champion of the Parish (If you're playing it, Esper Sentinel, and it's probably objectively better than Champion)
Idea for a game you should play. Slightly different rules than normal commander. No ban list. BUT - apart from basic lands (Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, Forest, Wastes) every card in the deck has to start with the same letter as your commander.
Just a thought, maybe evaluate cards against the actual format and not your personal banlist meta. Claiming colourless mana is impossible in a sol ring/mana crypt format is kinda silly.
Maybe I missed it, but have you guys covered Talon Gate of Madara? Planar Nexus seems to have taken a lot of the attention away from this cracked land that also came in Tricky Terrain.
I like the manabase podcast, but I'd say take it a step further. Make several. Do a mono color / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 color. I think a good portion of the cards will repeat so you wouldn't have to talk about them over and over again. Mostly just focus on what changes. This week I sat down and did a generic mono blue one and with 37 lands, including MDFCs and spell that transform into lands, I found I was down to only 10 basics. This is WAY lower than I like because I use the janky blue "ramp" of refracted image / savor the moment and mitotic manipulation. Now I have to re-evaluate how effective these are with only 10 basics (down from 16) and perhaps adjust the utility lands to compensate.
Happy to see the Copy Land discussion. I think this is one of the best blue ramp spells, hands down. The vast majority of the time it is not getting removed. As far as board wipes that people actually play go, it gets hit only by Nev's Disc, Rift, Austere Command and Farewell; potentially also Bane of Progress and Cleansing Nova but I haven't seen either played in forever. So you have to ask yourself how often is someone going to target your enchantment land. This is controllable. If you only take reasonable lands, no one will ever target it. If you take coffers or Gaea's cradle, that's on you' you need to weigh the benefit of the broken land vs. the potential to get got.
As far as Shadow of the second sun goes, I think your discussion was hurt by the fact that you guys are not really blue players. This card is amazing in blue. Why? The eternal struggle with blue is "Do I cast a spell now or do I hold up mana?" This card negates that thought process. That's amazing. Imagine playing a Crim that not only is casting his annoying staxy things but then also has mana up every turn after doing it. It takes "Draw Go" and transforms it to "Draw, Play, Untap Go." It is so good.
The reason why Abstruse Appropriation is better than Steal Enchantment, or similar spells, is that it hits anything that can be targeted. Steal Enchantment can grab a smothering tithe, but it cant snag a One Ring. There are almost no steals spells that are not type dependent. It bothers me the card is Orzhov... but that's my personal issue. Also, steal enchantment is absolutely playable.
I think the plan is to do two or three different builds (maybe like mono-color, three color and five color). I'm not sure going through five would be reasonable on a single podcast, and I'm not sure there's enough difference between how I build four-color and five-color manabases to make it worth it. Should be an interesting cast!
So what I'm hearing is because of Farewell.... Don't play Creatures, enchantments, artifacts, or graveyard starts lol I forgot Farewell is in every deck and is guaranteed to be seen 4x a game 😂
I can’t tell if Richard’s pessimism about certain cards is him playing devils advocate for the means of the podcast needing discussion? or if he’s just nitpicking for no reason??
I really like the hunger tide rises for 3 mana it makes a token each turn as a psuedo awakening zone then the 4th level you get to sac creatures to tutor a creature to the field. It’s not fast but in a long game of commander this can go under the radar. It’s perfect for golgari aristocrats and even in token strategy’s getting your important creature to end the game is worth sacrificing some extra tokens
I think one thing that could make Shadow of the Second Sun sneaky good is that it also untaps your creatures, giving them pseudo-Vigilance and allowing them to use their tap abilities again.
If a card says draw on it there is no downside that Seth will not ignore while jamming it in everything and then tutoring for it so he can slowly draw into what he should have tutored for.
Yup, and decks where the commander has an activated ability with a mana sink, and decks with a lot of counterspells (even of that falls within the instant speed category). Card is a house and is clearly being underrated by most it seems.
The main appeal of Basics is that their cost-to-benefit ratio is very good because they are cheap. If you are a content creator or enfranchised player the low cost becomes a non-issue. And since most players don't run non-basic hate there is rarely any downside to running non-basics over basics.
In mono-colored I run 90% basics, and in 2c around 80%. Not just cost but also I am going to run cards like Harbringer of the Seas and Blood Moon if I can.
Argent Dais gets you killed????? It is an okay card at best... your opponents will go "oh what is that again? I never see it because NO ONE PLAYS IT!" Richard with the L takes as usual....
@@brianpendleton2674 That doesn't really matter. As long as it's there, it's hovering above your opponent's heads. So either they'll get rid of it, or they'll get rid of you. Even if you're using it to draw, you can't exclude that you will use it for removal when needed. But your opponent's don't even know what you're thinking, they will just see the potential threat.
I think arena of glory is incredible. It works really well with the command tax too. You haste in your commander and immediately get value. If someone kills your commander because of command tax you will have to wait a turn to play it again anyway. By that point the arena is untapped and ready to go
i better never see Richard playing with spymaster vault. if he wants to fight it so hard....... next card "5 mana draw three i take it every time" Richard have some consistency please. instead you want pay 10 mana to draw three and get a land into play?
Tomer, I'm also torn with arena of glory. I run flamekin village in all my creature decks (usually comes in tapped cuz I don't have an elemental). Your explanation sold me, I'm ordering some arena of glory's
I'm with Seth on Argent Dais. Not every deck, but: a relatively aggressive creature deck to ensure it keeps getting counters (regardless what opponents do), that probably doesn't want expensive draw, that probably doesn't want to run tons of removal, and that has disposable permanents. Doesn't seem particularly niche; I'm trying it in Dogmeat. It also combos with the new bird in the Assassins Creed set, that can exile itself (so, exile it for 2 cards instead) and then returns to play attacking when a legendary creature you control goes unblocked.
So Arena of Glory could be comparable to the Shaman mechanic "Overload" in Hearthstone, so basically Overload says that you have X less mana on your next turn where X is the Overload, and having an Overload cost to give a creature haste (or charge in HS) seems 100% worth while in a generic sense, if I'm running a good amount of mountains in a deck I'd 100% run this.
DreamTide whale is the Goat. It’s undersea mammalian Atraxa. However you really don’t want to bring it out as early as turn 3 because it’s very easy for no one to double spell and then it dies in pretty much one turn. You wanna get the game pace going first. And you forgot to mention the Art! The art is amazing on that card. Reminds me of Lisa Frank 90’s fantasy felt paintings from my childhood.
Spymaster's Vault, I was really not hyped about this card at all but I will add it to Nymris and I can see lines like: It is turn 7 or 8, someone pulls off a board wipe and Nymris is still in the command zone. I have at least 7 untapped lands. Everything dies, let's say 12 creatures. In the End Phase of that turn, I flash in Nymris and activate the Spymaster's Vault to draw 12 cards + discard 12 filtering through tons of cards. 2 Mana for this effect is very cheap since you can activate it whenever a critical number of creatures die.
Argent Dais is a perfect card in Eriette the Beguiler decks. They try to disenchant to get there creature back and you exile it and draw 2 cards. Perfect card for her
I love the prolifewale. Had it in prerelease in a energy/+1+1 counter deck... It was such a beater. 😊 And in commander it might be even better. But if the floor a 3mana 7/5 is allready good for your deck... Oh let me get those avenger plants a little bit stronger ... Or maybe that ultimate doesn't seem unreachable ... Me very excited for it. Btw grist plus the nightmare is super cool. Like every turn you can get her back get a new body to sac for the nightmare and fill up energy and your graveyard with bigger stuff to reanimate... 😱
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(Seth) Since we recorded this podcast I've played with Arena of Glory a bunch in Modern and Timeless and I was wrong. The card is really good. You don't activate it very often, but when you do its incredibly powerful.
Now does it get even better if you just bounce land it back to your hand after you exert it. Get Richard on it.
I actually just came here from the podcast to say Seth's take on arena of glory is downright bizarre.
Worst case it's just a mountain.
When something comes up for it though. Potentially two hasted creatures at no cost during the turn you're trying to make a big play with the haste.
Almost certainly not using it on a solemn simulacrum...
Shows how much people still underrate haste.
Next podcast challenge: Richard can't say Farewell
I know right what are these takes? In Richard’s mind Farewell is like Relentless Rats
Farewell is not that good, it gets removed by doom blade
Yeah, it didn't even make sense to mention it in the discussion on Copy Land because you don't have to worry about it getting swept up by Farewell. In this magical world where everyone always has Farewell, you're playing blue, so you always have a counterspell.
💯
Take a shot.
Abstruse Appropriation is pretty sick against The One Ring. Exile removal and lets you get the cast trigger.
Also in metas that play sol ring hitting sol ring and immediately casting the ring is excellent ramp in black/white.
Copy (fetch)land is not blown by any enchantment removal :P
I thought about this one before but there is a 3drop artifact called manascape refractor that essentially does the same if used with fetches and was simmilarily hyped but it doesn't realy perform great either. Its about 1$ now to give perspective.
@@Shimatzu95 that one enters tapped but yeah I don't know if this is that much better
@@devan9197either way, unless you have recursion on them, like a muldrotha or something, i doubt they are gonna be much better than regular manarocks. That said, they are certainly more interesting and have a heigher cieling so we will see.
@@Shimatzu95 I think it's definitely better than most mana rocks. It is still a land so it doesn't get swept up in any of the non land board wipes. I think that makes it better than most 3 mana rocks but not two mana rocks.
31:30 hostage taler is a good analysis because both spells cost 4 and let you cast the exiled thing afterwards.
Pros of appropriation: instad speed, hits anything, the opponent cant get it back
Pros of taker: is an creature etb, an be flickerd
Copy Land. people are forgetting how good lands like field of the dead stack
Oh NOOOO SETH DID THE SECOND SUN thing.
NO SETH. noooo
34:24 As long as you don’t have access to green or white, I’d argue Steal Enchantment is very playable.
People also play Feed the Swarm to get rid of enchantments and the way I see it, Steal enchantment is even better
Planar Genesis seems great bc if you don't want a land and are searching for a nonland card that may be relevant to the boardstate at the time (removal, counter, combo piece etc) then you "may" choose not to put a land in tapped and instead put a card into hand, plus no reveal! So no one knows what you snagged
Planar Genesis works late game
seth...shadow of the second sun is you guessed it(well you didnt actually) similar to Sphinx of the second sun...Dont understand the confusion with the ruling when its effect has been out forever...
Dating myself, but all of a sudden have an overwhelming urge to play the Simon Says electronic game.
Seth needs to realise that red mages don't plan for the future!
"What about Farewell?" Is not a good reason to keep cards out of your deck.
I don’t know if I necessarily agree with that. I think “what about farewell” is an extremely valid reason to put cards *in* your deck, so I think the argument isn’t entirely unreasonable
"Dies to removal" (or sweeper in this case) is a common argument and it's often not applied properly and it isn't being applied properly here. It's a good argument against cards that don't generate immediate value or have a high mana cost. An example would be that you'd never tell someone to not run a Spirited Companion (aka the Richard special) because Farewell can sweep it up by choosing enchantment. That's because you already would've drawn a card and it only cost 2. That's not including other forms of value you could've gotten off it (blink, chump block before the Farewell, equip, enchantress stuff, etc.). Copy Land is 3 mana, and gets you immediate value most of the time. It's a land you can tap for mana, and you could copy a land with an etb like Mystic Sanctuary. Same principle applies to mana rocks. If your rocks get swept up that certainly sucks, but chances are you already generated meaningful value/progress off of them by the time they get wiped.
“But this dies to Farewell” is literally equivalent to saying “but this is printed on cardboard.”
@@zacharyenglish2904 But at the end of the day it is the basic fallacy pf "Dies to Doom Blade"
I know what you mean, but hear me out. If you're scared of Farewell, it might not be a good idea to put a Mycosynth Lattice in your deck unless you want all your lands exiled.
It was so sad to see Seth's disappointment with Shadow of the Second Sun lol. It felt like telling a kid that Santa Claus doesn't exist.
I think they discounted it too quickly. It's great for U/x decks that play on opponents turns. It always replaces itself. If you have flash heavy things, it's a recurring extra turn spell. Otherwise it's just a bad howling mine.
Card is better than they think. Perfect for commanders with mana sinks for example. Draws and extra card and for these types of deck nearly doubles the mana. I'm already putting it into two of my decks.
Idk why. The card is busted most blue decks are good at playing both instant speed and tapping out for good cards like rhystic study concentrated sphinx etc. then being able to cast those and hold up counter magic all while drawing an extra card
I was a little surprised with the confusion, since it's the same effect as on Sphinx of the Second Sun (obviously, hence the name reference), which I thought is basically the meme of biggest misunderstood and misplayed card in recent memory. I know I definitely misplayed that card and was similarly disappointed when I found out I shouldn't have won that game. At least not that way. I think it's still a fine, fun card, but it's a far cry from busted or even very powerful.
Richard on Atraxa: "I mean, the card is okay, big body, lots of keywords, draws you some cards. But it's just gonna draw removal and get you killed, am I wrong?!" Laughs
"spend 7 whole mana for a huge creature just for it to get farewell'd"
@@wedgearyxsaber*laughs*
happened to me. this just like first 5c nivmiz, right? sold early on before it spiked
I love the adjectives the crew use as catchphrases.
Tomer: "This card is bananas."
Seth: "This card is busted!"
Richard: "This card is doodoo."
Crim: "This card is The Truth."
Oh my god you're so right
Nailed it, I can actually visualise each one of them as they say it too.
richard :"dies to farewell"
I would like this comment but I can't ruin the very nice number of likes it has 👌
This is true
Oh Richard. Copy Land is so good. Dies to sweeper/removal is not a good argument against an enchantment land. That's as durable as a dual card type gets. Also Richard! You should see how good this is more than anyone. It can come down and copy Mystic Sanctuary which we know you love.
It’s a perfectly fine argument it’s 3 mana ramp which is already not good. It gets hit by enchantment sweepers which is a ton of the most played sweepers in the format. It has a cute upside of being able to copy busted lands but most times you are just going to play it turn 3 copying a basic or dual
@@peewee0224 hard disagree. It being 3 mana is a valid argument against it but that's irrelevant to the sweeper argument. There aren't a ton of sweepers that hit enchantments. That's just not true. There are some good ones and they see play. It's upside happens to be controllable. Point is that it's an argument but not a good one. Dies to sweeper needs to be applied to cards that will realistically be hit before getting any value. That's where that along with the broader "dies to removal" becomes a valid argument. If Farewell for example was a valid reason to not play cards that it hits, I wouldn't be playing any non-land non-planeswalker cards. I also wouldn't be using my graveyard.
@@d.a.d.-ohgosh so no the argument isn’t a dies to removal argument it’s a it’s not as safe as green land ramp. It’s more akin to manascape refractor and literally nobody plays that card.
@@peewee0224of course it’s not as safe as green ramp, it’s blue, that’s why it’s good
@@peewee0224 getting swept up is absolutely a dies to removal argument. That's the very nature of it. This board wipe exists. It removes the card. Therefore the card is susceptible to being removed. Also referring to green as better ramp is a mute point. Of course it is. Not all decks are green. That does nothing to dismiss the viability of a card. With that logic we'd never play decks that exclude green because ramp in Commander is so valuable. I'm open to arguments against it but not the argument that it gets swept up by Farewell. That applies to literally every permanent type other than battles, planeswalkers and lands. I'm not going to stop running creatures or any other permanent type because of Farewell. That doesn't make any sense at all.
Richard is never going to give up the dies-to-removal argument. At some point, cards are either so good that they are worth the attention it draws (rhystic study) or innocuous enough in effect on board state that it will do work (propaganda). Sometimes you have to test a card before you write it off entirely, because it is not wise to predict table behavior/reaction to a card you have never played against or with.
He'll never give up the dies to removal argument but he'll also never play removal
@@douglassmith8069Hey, that’s not true, he gives up the “dies to removal” argument all the time!…when _he’s_ high on a card.
I agree. If a card fits nicely in my curve and has synergy with my deck, the fact that it is bait for removal is even better becausel that’s one less removal spell waiting for my commander.
I cant believe Richard would let his son wander the streets unattended
For the mana-base idea, why not have a basic structure of about 45 cards or something, and then you can add both the ramp package and the lands you'd put into that specific deck?
Additionally/alternatively, avoid a deck with green and white, since those are the main colors that actually land ramp anyways.
@@Red-Tower That wouldn't actually solve the issue, considering all the mana rocks that you'd just want to play instead.
It's funny how according to Richard removing a player from the game is like a game action you can just take.
Seth: I play Argent Dais. Pass.
Richard: Untap, Upkeep, Draw. Precombat Main Phase, I'm just gonna take the "remove player from game action" targeting Seth.
Seth: Well, I got no response to that. Good game, Richard.
It's moreso that Commander players have a reputation of irrationally tunneling (and continuing to tunnel) when anyone does anything targeted against them and/or has a "loaded gun" on the table.
@@jeffe2267 So Richard is a bad player, is what I'm hearing.
@@gdmikester4302 Actually other way around, Richard is really good in redirecting heat and point out other "threats" which is basically player removal.
Well, when you have 3 people targeting you unless your deck is of a higher power than everyone else you die in 2 turns (starting from when you play the scary permanent) if you fail to combo off
@@jeffe2267 your the guy that featured on their "mean comments" video, good to know your still commenting
Believe it or not I do play commanders sphere
If 3 mana ramp is too slow for casual EDH in 2024 I'm at the wrong table.
@@HealingGourd it's more there's a lot of 2-mana alternatives. Commander sphere isn't bad but is it worth running over other cards?
@@guico33 That's my point though.
@@HealingGourd so you were saying 3 mana rocks are fast enough or too slow? Not sure I'm following.
@@guico33 They've been dead, and the printing of Arcane signet is what killed them. It's sad to see that even low power EDH is about optimizing. That's not what the format was intended to be about.
Richard's take on Spymaster's Vault has the same energy as his initial take on the surveil lands. For someone who likes utility lands, he has some really bad takes on them.
Y'all (with the exception of Phil) are sleeping on Volatile Stormdrake. The card is a blue staple, but only the cEDH crowd and energy players are looking at it.
I'm with ya. It's solid. Gilded Drake is amazing. Volatile Stormdrake is probably slightly worse. I mean, a card can be much worse than a slightly worse version of an existing phenomenal card. I've tried it and so far I've got nothing but good things to say.
To be fair I think it might be stronger than Gilded Drake because if you don't pay the energy you get to sacrifice the permanent. Which is great against stax pieces, whereas Gilded Drake just gives you the stax piece which usually won't help you because it effects everyone.
You guys gotta step outside your own edh sphere sometimes :D Imagine Abtruse Apporpriation exiling their The One Ring and now you get a second one for your deck
I mean if you're losing your Copy Land to Farewell you're losing your mana rocks too. So I don't think 'just run a mana rock' is really a proper response to it. Enchantments aren't invulnerable, sure, but I agree with Seth that they're *less* vulnerable in general than artifacts. There's more 'end the game' artifacts than 'end the game' enchantments and even with the latter people are saving enchantment removal for *those* not Copy Land unless you copied a broken-in-context land and *made* Copy Land an 'end the game' enchantment.
I agree with your general point that artifacts are more powerful, but I've definitely seen more enchantments that specifically say "You win the game" on them. Darksteel reactor is the only artifact I can think of that does that.
@@TheCatHerder It was more meant as in terms of being part of combos and whatnot as opposed to alternate win conditions. Cards that, if left on the table, mean that player is going to come out on top.
Find yourself a partner that thinks as much about you as Richard thinks about lands
“What about farewell”
Bruh this seems like trolling at this rate. What about “Dies to apocalypse”?
Every card is bad because it dies to worldfire, shut it down 😆
Next podcast's challenge: Richard can't say anything trolling, difficulty level impossible
Shadow of the Second Sun is Wilderness Reclamation on steroids. It does the same thing as Wilderness Reclamation except you get to untap all your permanents, you get an additional draw step and you get additional upkeep triggers. Maybe not a staple but very good in blue control decks.
It is perfect for rashmi
Also good in blue aggro: Bring able to untap yor creatures and your mana is nice
Straight into my Zedruu and Rashmi decks. Probably more as well as I build more decks. Just ordered 5 copies for 1$ each. People sleeping on this...
6 is a lot of mana
@@surfinggarchomp2820but then you untap that mana, you still can attack on that turn and your creature have pseudo-vigilance
Btw, pain lands are great for colorless sources in 4-5 color decks
Pain lands are lowkey S+ tier dual lands. They’re superior to every other non-fetchable dual land
Filter dual lands are also fantastic in 4-5 color decks that give colorless mana and come into play untapped
Enchantments are waaaay harder to get rid of aha
Yeah, I see cards like Vandalblast that blow up all artifacts regularly, I almost never see cards like Back to Nature that blow up all enchantments.
@@MTGGoldfishCommander If you want to spend a targeted removal spell to blow up my Copy Land, I think that's fine. I imagine most people won't bother.
@@MTGGoldfishCommander I think it's a card that you play in land based decks that have strong utility lands that want to be copied. It comes in the Omo precon which has cards like Cloudpost and as you guys mentioned in the podcast, you can play it with Cabal Coffers/Urborg. It feels like it's an extra Vesuva in those types of decks. I certainly wouldn't jam it into every blue deck, but ones that are built around land strategies I think would want to have this.
Not putting Amphibian Downpour on this list hurts the soul but I get it they only have so many slots. Not only is amphibian downpour good for enchantress decks, it is a mini board wipe/ potentially time walking your opponents in your favor. If someone casts 2 to 4 spells on their turn, you then cast amphibian downpour frogify all your opponent's commanders and 1 or 2 value creatures. Let them attack their frogs into each other and recast their commanders.
My vote for the most underrated card of the set.
One thing I think that is being missed about Arena of Glory against the other haste enabling lands is that it doesn't leave a window to respond if you're hasting in a creature with a tap ability. The other lands mentioned require you to give up priority by targeting the creature to give it haste while Arena gives it haste and you can immediately activate it without getting blown out.
Im surprised Richard can bring decks every week when Farewell continues to exist.
Arena of Glory: This is neutral mana cost
Flamekin Village costs -"2" mana, not -1.
Hall of the Bandit Lord is a tapland and costs 3 life. But it's neutral mana.
Hanweird Battlements isn't a tapland, but is colorless and also costs -"2" mana.
Slayer's Stronghold is -"3" mana, but gives power and vigilance as well. Colorless.
The backside of Dowsing Device is the best for violence+haste, but it's -"4" mana.
Arena of Glory is great if you are casting multiple creatures in a turn.
I’m so glad I don’t live in the world Richard lives in where every card in everyone’s hand is a Farewell
Richard logic: it dies to board removal= bad card
Also Richard logic: birds are great, boompile works, durdling = great game play.
What timeline has Richard fallen into because this is the avengers level threat we really need to worry about
I kind of get his idea: why play strong cards that get you killed, when you can play a small Tribe that does not get you killed and others use their answers and not you?
EDIT: But still, commander is to play the cards you want. even if they don't always get to perform that well.
Richard looking super captivated while Tomer explained how good Arena of Glory is in his Myra deck was great
Shadow of the Second Sun: You get to draw another card too.
Richard: everything is bad because farewell exists 😂
Abtruse Appropriation steals Rhystic Study.
How much fun would it be to ask the Blue player if They want to pay the 1 when you're not in Blue? 😁
Spymasters vault is insane. i'm even running it in modern and it's legit. don't forget cards like grave pact. you have like 2 guys die and all the sudden you can connive 8
Arena of glory won me a game right after I pulled it and threw it in my red deck on a whim, Seth is buggin 💀
this whole podcast is a syop there is no way richard actually believes this
Richard be like: "Yeah playing your Commander sounds nice but what if the next player just Farewells?!?!"
Love Tomer's hair
I don’t
As a lands player in commander, pretty much the entire land cycle from MH3 is S tier for me
Abstruse appropriation. i play hostage taker all the time. stealing sol rings and one rings and any other type of ring is dope with that card. being able to flicker it is better but i still think that should guide how you feel about his card.
I know everyone memes on the guys for bringing up Farewell when analyzing most cards, but to be fair, that is the meta that they play in. I will say at least for myself, my LGS doesn’t see many Farewells played because it’s generally a salty card that slows the game down rather than progressing the casters game plan. With that in mind, assuming most card shops are likely of a similar thought process, I think it’s safe to say that it’s detrimental to the objective analysis of a card to claim it’s bad or less-good because of it getting wiped to a Farewell. You guys could post a poll on how often players cast or see a farewell played to finally put a statistic to how important it is to judging the quality of a card.
I figured it out.
If Richard's talks about a card, he loves it.
If you talk about a card, he hates it; unplayable. Dies to wipes.
Note that Planar Nexus counts as a Locus so you can use it with Cloudpost as well as Tron.
Congratulations, Richard, on finally not making the comment of the week!
It won't be a long Farewell. He's sure to feature again next week after these takes, lol.
I feel like this episode should have been called, "Highly rated cards everyone is talking about, but we needed to make a catchy title"
The criteria was basically cards we didn't talk about during the best card podcast or MDFC podcast that we're excited to play with.
@@MTGGoldfishCommander so not underrated necessarily.
Seth doesn't like Arena of Glory but likes tap lands? makes no sense
Richard using “Rampant Growth” and “tutor” to describe a card that does neither. With such a huge Magic vocabulary….just why?
So that people will post a comment about it 😄
Forget Copy Land, I play Annex. I go up a land, my opponent goes down a land. Seriously though, I do play Annex in my mono-blue Merfolk deck.
Annex is so underrated...
Honest question, how do you feel about territory forge? It feels very similar, but as an artifact in red, and your opponent’s land (or artifact) isn’t retrievable
@@jakecarlson3709 Territory Forge is ok. I play it in Chiss-Goria where it fits extra well.
@@jakecarlson3709 so red has Conquer, which is the original Annex. It also cost 5 mana.
Chittering dispatcher is so underrated. No one will counter it or kill it before you get your first attack in (though they should). For 2G you get 6 creature etbs and three colorless mana back. That’s the minimum. If you have advantageous attacks it only get better. If you are a clone/copy deck your ramping even more and artisticrats gets more ltbs for cmc than any other noncombo card. What’s not to love? Why aren’t more people talking about this?
Copy Land is busted in Simic, I'm not sure why the crew is poo-pooing all over it in green decks. Green and blue allows you to crop rotation, open the way, and sowing mycospawn etc for non basics. Copy Land then becomes a second copy of your field of the dead, cradle, or any other Land that green decks can very easily tutor into play. The new Omo deck is a perfect example of copying utility lands in simic. Missed opportunity guys.
I wish y’all would say the name of each card a few more times, especially after you’re done talking about it. I am sure that folks who usually watch the video have visual cues but as a listener, sometimes I have to skip back 5-6 minutes to figure out what “this” is, after deciding I definitely want to get it. Please just repeat the name of the card whenever you’re ready to move on 😅
So, since farewell exists, why bother play anything to the board, it will be exiled…
Tbf this really is Richard's whole strategy. Never play anything and politick your way to victory.
Guide of Souls has been amazing for my Eowyn list. For a single mana it pumps a creature every turn, gains some life, and gives the deck some much-needed flying.
It's also good enough that I started including the original Ranger of Eos, so I can grab some of the really good 1-drops.
Mother of Runes
Weathered Wayfarer
Guide of Souls
Reinforced Ronin
Champion of the Parish
(If you're playing it, Esper Sentinel, and it's probably objectively better than Champion)
Woohoo Goldfish MH3 spec tech, lets see all these cards go up in price in the next couple dayyyss
Idea for a game you should play. Slightly different rules than normal commander.
No ban list. BUT - apart from basic lands (Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, Forest, Wastes) every card in the deck has to start with the same letter as your commander.
They've played letter week. Seth won with a shadowborn combo with sir Conrad and surgical extraction
Just a thought, maybe evaluate cards against the actual format and not your personal banlist meta. Claiming colourless mana is impossible in a sol ring/mana crypt format is kinda silly.
PSA: the MTG Goldfish meta is not indicative of the overall Commander meta, and probably not your local meta either.
I hate Arena of Glory, but not for gameplay reasons.
Exert is a mechanic for creatures. How do you exert a land? Does the Arena try extra hard?
Ripples of Undeath baybeeee
Oh good they brought the Sphinx of the Second Sun wording back.
Still good, but way more niche.
Seth getting shadow of the second sun wrong again... LOL
You can tell seth never plays decks that care about haste because otherwise he would know why tomer likes arena of glory 😂
People say Americans talk fast but the Canadian (Tomer) talks faster than anyone I have met.
Maybe I missed it, but have you guys covered Talon Gate of Madara? Planar Nexus seems to have taken a lot of the attention away from this cracked land that also came in Tricky Terrain.
I like the manabase podcast, but I'd say take it a step further. Make several. Do a mono color / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 color. I think a good portion of the cards will repeat so you wouldn't have to talk about them over and over again. Mostly just focus on what changes. This week I sat down and did a generic mono blue one and with 37 lands, including MDFCs and spell that transform into lands, I found I was down to only 10 basics. This is WAY lower than I like because I use the janky blue "ramp" of refracted image / savor the moment and mitotic manipulation. Now I have to re-evaluate how effective these are with only 10 basics (down from 16) and perhaps adjust the utility lands to compensate.
Happy to see the Copy Land discussion. I think this is one of the best blue ramp spells, hands down. The vast majority of the time it is not getting removed. As far as board wipes that people actually play go, it gets hit only by Nev's Disc, Rift, Austere Command and Farewell; potentially also Bane of Progress and Cleansing Nova but I haven't seen either played in forever. So you have to ask yourself how often is someone going to target your enchantment land. This is controllable. If you only take reasonable lands, no one will ever target it. If you take coffers or Gaea's cradle, that's on you' you need to weigh the benefit of the broken land vs. the potential to get got.
As far as Shadow of the second sun goes, I think your discussion was hurt by the fact that you guys are not really blue players. This card is amazing in blue. Why? The eternal struggle with blue is "Do I cast a spell now or do I hold up mana?" This card negates that thought process. That's amazing. Imagine playing a Crim that not only is casting his annoying staxy things but then also has mana up every turn after doing it. It takes "Draw Go" and transforms it to "Draw, Play, Untap Go." It is so good.
The reason why Abstruse Appropriation is better than Steal Enchantment, or similar spells, is that it hits anything that can be targeted. Steal Enchantment can grab a smothering tithe, but it cant snag a One Ring. There are almost no steals spells that are not type dependent. It bothers me the card is Orzhov... but that's my personal issue. Also, steal enchantment is absolutely playable.
I think the plan is to do two or three different builds (maybe like mono-color, three color and five color). I'm not sure going through five would be reasonable on a single podcast, and I'm not sure there's enough difference between how I build four-color and five-color manabases to make it worth it. Should be an interesting cast!
Everyone should use the same commander and 49 cards and they finish the deck and add all the lands and mana sources/ramp.
I was also fooled by Shadow of the Second Sun, the wording is fucking dumb
So what I'm hearing is because of Farewell.... Don't play Creatures, enchantments, artifacts, or graveyard starts lol I forgot Farewell is in every deck and is guaranteed to be seen 4x a game 😂
Cyclonic Rift is more commonly seen tbh, but Richard thinks that card is terrible. I'll never get it, lol.
Is there a reason why the mtggoldfish crew doesnt play vedalken plotter? In a richard meta it can be a 1 mana for 2-3 mana land trade!
The argument "gets board wiped, doesnt matter" so many things will be wiped. "Doesnt get wiped" is a better arugument to have
I can’t tell if Richard’s pessimism about certain cards is him playing devils advocate for the means of the podcast needing discussion? or if he’s just nitpicking for no reason??
I like it. Even when it sounds off, it helps form a more nuanced conclusion than if everyone was in agreement.
Spymaster’s Vault is busted and I’m not surprised Richard thinks it’s bad. Too much One Piece perhaps!? Jk
Don't insult one piece.
I really like the hunger tide rises for 3 mana it makes a token each turn as a psuedo awakening zone then the 4th level you get to sac creatures to tutor a creature to the field. It’s not fast but in a long game of commander this can go under the radar. It’s perfect for golgari aristocrats and even in token strategy’s getting your important creature to end the game is worth sacrificing some extra tokens
It's a house in my Beledros Brawl deck on Arena.
I think one thing that could make Shadow of the Second Sun sneaky good is that it also untaps your creatures, giving them pseudo-Vigilance and allowing them to use their tap abilities again.
If a card says draw on it there is no downside that Seth will not ignore while jamming it in everything and then tutoring for it so he can slowly draw into what he should have tutored for.
Another + for mycospawn, it's a cast trigger. so even if they counterspell it for some reason, you still get the land.
Shadow of the second sun is great in any deck that wants to play at instant speed or has upkeep triggers.
Yup, and decks where the commander has an activated ability with a mana sink, and decks with a lot of counterspells (even of that falls within the instant speed category). Card is a house and is clearly being underrated by most it seems.
A stand out for me is sage of the maze for gate decks. It is an absolutely powerful card in gate focused decks.
Best proliferator probably is Evolution Sage imo
3 pain lands + strip mine is enough colorless lands for me
I can not and will never be able to understand the hatred for basic land.
The main appeal of Basics is that their cost-to-benefit ratio is very good because they are cheap. If you are a content creator or enfranchised player the low cost becomes a non-issue. And since most players don't run non-basic hate there is rarely any downside to running non-basics over basics.
In mono-colored I run 90% basics, and in 2c around 80%. Not just cost but also I am going to run cards like Harbringer of the Seas and Blood Moon if I can.
Argent Dais gets you killed?????
It is an okay card at best... your opponents will go "oh what is that again? I never see it because NO ONE PLAYS IT!"
Richard with the L takes as usual....
I understand the sentiment. Repeatable removal in plain sight will make you a target.
@guico33 But you are likely using it as removal only in case of emergencies, otherwise it is card draw.
@@brianpendleton2674 That doesn't really matter. As long as it's there, it's hovering above your opponent's heads. So either they'll get rid of it, or they'll get rid of you. Even if you're using it to draw, you can't exclude that you will use it for removal when needed. But your opponent's don't even know what you're thinking, they will just see the potential threat.
Arena of glory + bounce lands just saying
I think arena of glory is incredible. It works really well with the command tax too. You haste in your commander and immediately get value. If someone kills your commander because of command tax you will have to wait a turn to play it again anyway. By that point the arena is untapped and ready to go
i better never see Richard playing with spymaster vault. if he wants to fight it so hard....... next card "5 mana draw three i take it every time" Richard have some consistency please. instead you want pay 10 mana to draw three and get a land into play?
Tomer, I'm also torn with arena of glory. I run flamekin village in all my creature decks (usually comes in tapped cuz I don't have an elemental). Your explanation sold me, I'm ordering some arena of glory's
I'm with Seth on Argent Dais. Not every deck, but: a relatively aggressive creature deck to ensure it keeps getting counters (regardless what opponents do), that probably doesn't want expensive draw, that probably doesn't want to run tons of removal, and that has disposable permanents. Doesn't seem particularly niche; I'm trying it in Dogmeat.
It also combos with the new bird in the Assassins Creed set, that can exile itself (so, exile it for 2 cards instead) and then returns to play attacking when a legendary creature you control goes unblocked.
So Arena of Glory could be comparable to the Shaman mechanic "Overload" in Hearthstone, so basically Overload says that you have X less mana on your next turn where X is the Overload, and having an Overload cost to give a creature haste (or charge in HS) seems 100% worth while in a generic sense, if I'm running a good amount of mountains in a deck I'd 100% run this.
DreamTide whale is the Goat. It’s undersea mammalian Atraxa.
However you really don’t want to bring it out as early as turn 3 because it’s very easy for no one to double spell and then it dies in pretty much one turn.
You wanna get the game pace going first.
And you forgot to mention the Art!
The art is amazing on that card. Reminds me of Lisa Frank 90’s fantasy felt paintings from my childhood.
Spymaster's Vault, I was really not hyped about this card at all but I will add it to Nymris and I can see lines like:
It is turn 7 or 8, someone pulls off a board wipe and Nymris is still in the command zone. I have at least 7 untapped lands. Everything dies, let's say 12 creatures. In the End Phase of that turn, I flash in Nymris and activate the Spymaster's Vault to draw 12 cards + discard 12 filtering through tons of cards.
2 Mana for this effect is very cheap since you can activate it whenever a critical number of creatures die.
Argent Dais is a perfect card in Eriette the Beguiler decks. They try to disenchant to get there creature back and you exile it and draw 2 cards. Perfect card for her
I love the prolifewale. Had it in prerelease in a energy/+1+1 counter deck... It was such a beater. 😊
And in commander it might be even better. But if the floor a 3mana 7/5 is allready good for your deck... Oh let me get those avenger plants a little bit stronger ... Or maybe that ultimate doesn't seem unreachable ... Me very excited for it.
Btw grist plus the nightmare is super cool. Like every turn you can get her back get a new body to sac for the nightmare and fill up energy and your graveyard with bigger stuff to reanimate... 😱