Josh Lee Kwai Quits the CAG! Is This the End of an Era? | Rules Committee Ban Decision | MTG
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- Опубликовано: 25 сен 2024
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The Commander's Quarters is your Magic the Gathering source that helps you Command Your Budget! Josh Lee Kwai Resigns from the Commander Advisory Group after the Rules Committee's Banning of Mana Crypt, Dockside Extortionist, Jeweled Lotus, and Nadu! Is This the End of an Era?
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I mean sounds like he was tired not being heard, that’s hard for anyone and will stress a passionate person out in regard to relationships/creative outlet.
Oh, he was heard. They know how he feels about it. They just didn't care. That's the problem.
Also, sounds tired of getting the backlash from the cag and Rc
Every card that wasn't banned was him being heard. He doesn't want to ban almost anything.
Sounds like he was tired of not being the ultimate authority on all bans.
@@Zo3yX I’m sure but he’s use to backlash so I don’t think that would be the main contributor to him leaving right now.
They didn't even care what Olivia had to say, she had the best solution and is right there on the committee. Somebody on there was very convinced they were right, and ignored everyone else. @@cloudyskiesnow
It is possible JLK's primary reason for resigning was annoyance at not being consulted. However, I suspect it has at least as much to do with the fact that he was just generally very uncomfortable with the optics of the RC delaying this announcement for a lengthy period of time (9 months? 12 months? 18 months?) specifically because they either chose or were convinced to allow WotC to run the product line lifecycle of the sets that contained the cards being banned. I'm not saying this was an easy problem for the RC to negotiate, but the optics are bad. The Festival in a Box release dumping the last dregs of Commander Masters & LCI Collector Boosters on players just a few weeks before these bans is ESPECIALLY ugly, bordering on fraudulent. That is not conduct i would want my name associated with when I had literally no idea it was happening.
I Agree
This is what I've been saying about this ridiculous ban. Even if it wasn't a ploy for people in the know to make a lot of money (I actually think it was), it still looks that way. So at best, it was so ill-timed and inconsistent that it only appears to be borderline fraud and "insider trading." At worst, it actually was those things. The RC can say all they want that they don't condone RC members making buying and selling decisions based on knowledge of the banlist, but do we really just take their word on that? What if they do it anyway? They get caught and kicked off of the RC, or they get away with it and make tons of money. The consequences seem kind of small compared to the potential benefits. And as for WOtC, it's obvious they had a hand in this. There are literally messages from RC members stating that they had been talking to WOtC about the Mana Crypt ban since last year. And the ban comes right after the company basically made all of their money on the products containing those cards. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... then WOtC and the RC probably did some really shady stuff, and all of them profited while all the average players got screwed on the secondary market.
Mitch from the Commander's Quarters, I just wanna say thank you for always trying to make good content for MTG Commander. You always give me hope that one can have fun in this format on a budget and also your charisma and personality along with your maturity I respect alot. Keep up the good work as always.
Thank you! Trying my best!
JLK was a great bridge for casauls and cedh players to understand each other. He was a good pick for cag due to that. Sadly due to how the RC handled these bans its reasonable for him to leave cause at this time "Whats the point of CAG if you arent gonna discuss bans with them"
It sounds like they already knew the CAG'S opinion, why rehash it?
@@alecmullaney7957 To bring a voice of reason to those fucking idiotic giant heads. Biggest mistake ever. RC should disband.
The irony is that Josh disagreed with the RC about the bans but he is actually one of the biggest proponents of rule zero and basically made it a point to never use any of the banned cards or any other of the known cedh staples on his show and content (Except for maybe the *one* episode where they distinctly labeled cedh) which was very casual friendly.
Wasn't JLK consistently against cEDH? He preached Rule 0, but that's only feasible when playing amongst friends or regulars, not randoms at an LGS.
Whats the point if being a CAG member and being against any ban?
Mitch got pretty well ostracised for suggesting a schism in the format. Gonna be really interesting if certain other community members don't hold fast to the format.
Okay, what the heck! This is just out right stupid. It's a game. Just a game. Everyone needs to chillout. The commander format is meant to be fun. I personally am fine with every salt card being banned. I don't play them, and I have vowed to never play them. If you want to, cool. Just remember it's a game. ❤❤❤❤️
@@jowenswiclearly you can't relate to the people who lost hundreds or thousands in collection value to this out of nowhere ban. So shut the fuck up
Yeah wasn't it Lieutenant or something?
@@jowenswi Yeah me too. What's your point? Mine is just that Mitch is treated unfairly.
@jowenswi then why is fun being gatekept and dictated by some random old people
Lutri - banned as companion. Just let me play my worst dual caster mage in my izzet otters deck
Lutri should have been unbanned years ago after they changed how the companion mechanic worked.
@Wolfen5207 Lutri would be a free 101st card for basically every UR+ deck. The companion deckbuilding cost needs to actually be a cost. I'd allow it at my tables in the 99 or even as the Commander, but not as a Companion.
@@natejablonski I understand that but if you have him as "banned as companion" it allows him to be a flavorful include in the 99 or commander for otter izzet decks that care about copying spells or otters like Alania. He is strictly a worst dual caster mage its only the companion tag that makes him ban worthy
@@xFweeX3x just talk to your pod. I'm including Lutri in my otter deck and I am confident most people I play with will be fine with it being in the 99
@@Wolfen5207 if they had went with not letting the companion mechanic work in commander, this never would have been an issue. Lutri suffered for a terrible decision by the RC.
Personally I believe that EDH should look at Canadian Highlander point system. Just point OP cards high enough and people won't be able to pop off so easily.
The rc doesn't believe we know what banned as commander means and you think they believe we can count?
As above, the "SiMpLiFiCaTiOn" of the banlist means that's never happening
My issue with JLK, is that he doesn't have a ban philosophy it just "don't ban anything" so ofc he wouldnt feel heard. No he doesn't get a pass for thinking Lutri should be banned lol. The Banlist should be for LGS groups that don't have alot of time to discuss rule 0
People were sending Olivia Golbert-Hicks death threats. Come on guys really? I thought our community was better than that. It’s honestly a shame.
And she was the one standing on the reasonable side against some of the bans. Some magic players just lash out and assume the biggest names had the biggest impact, but it's just not true.
I heard she was the only voice against the bans on the RC. If I was her, Id leak every damn thing I knew.
What do you expect? People are stupid like that. I think we still somehow overestimate the average person's wits. They're loooow
@RoninRose541 of course they go after the female member. Nerds...
@@WindchargerPrime she wasn’t the only one but she was definitely the most vocal about advocating against the bans.
Never ever in any game would I scoop on a Mana Crypt or Jeweled Lotus play including if one player played both in a turn. I'd laugh out loud, point, and say, "I guess we know who's enemy number one."
Exactly, and with them being banned and with really bad TA being rampant, games go from "oh we can get one or two in." To "well, time to sit down for 3 hours while combo man takes a year to figure out his combo."
If it was casual and we agreed not to play those i would scoop.
Lets say someone turn 1 a Krenko because of Jeweled lotus. It wont last more than a couple turns and when it inevitably dies he is now 6 mana and you arent close to casting him because you no longer have the lotus
@@brd123gaming9 What is this argument? They shouldn't have banned them because they end games super fast? lol
@@sw33tshar3 That argument is kinda shit because it shows a bad player decision. Krenko can combo with only 2 other goblins(cheap ones btw). Turn one goblin or mana, turn 2 tutor or generic goblin that can and will enable the combo and turn 3-4 depending on luck you throw it and now you have 3 extra mana because it paid 75% of your commander for free to protect the combo. If you throw krenko turn one without a table you are just playing yourself.
Seriously, what even is the point of CAG?
To advise the RC. They took the advice, and decoded that the bans were still a good idea
To advise the RC. They took the advice, and decoded that the bans were still a good idea
I'm pretty sure they get involved in playtesting too- the other advisory groups for other formats definitely do@@alecmullaney7957
@@alecmullaney7957that’s the thing though. They didn’t even talk to CAG and that’s where JLK is upset because the whole point of CAG is the advise the RC
@@tnastynelson to be perfectly frank if JLK's position was essentially that nothing should be banned then his approach to curating the format is both lazy and ineffective. He shouldn't be advising the RC on matters like this.
The only valid criticisms of this ban announcement are that it came without warning and it perhaps didn't target every card that could be banned. You could also say something like mana crypt or even dockside should have been banned much sooner but after seeing how people react to news like this, it's totally understandable why the RC would hesitate.
yea, why would you stay if you are getting hate from people because of a decision you didn't even make
Lutri is the worst ban ever. Just ban the companion mechanic, it's the real mistake.
Companion is fine, even Lutri is fine as a companion in casual play
In “kitchen table” Magic, YOU are the rules committee. There for, you can play banned cards in that format.
Nah...Golos had to go. As soon as people started breaking him and taking multiple turns, too much.
The horror stories of an entire pod where 3/4 players playing Golos? Ridiculous. Now we have astonishing two card combos that are insane. I also agree with the Iona ban too. "Hey Mono color deck, you no longer get to play the game! :D "
Help me understand, why dont you kick the guy? Or say "hey, can you play other decks" or something? There are Golos decks that aren't abusing his ability that id love to play with/against... That's my main problem with banning catds
@Gabahulk That's why bans fundamentally exist. For Golos specifically, everyone was building it. EDHRec had so many deck lists for Golos. When everyone starts playing the same deck over and over and over...sure you can have the conversation. What happens when you get the one guy "I'm not gonna stop playing this one deck." So you kick him/her/them. Next person " I play Golos too."
@@RalphThePyro You play pithing needle, disruptor flute, stony silence, cursed totem, or any number of other cards and literally never lose against golos.
@@nevermorebouquet3681"every card is awful bc u can just draw the out, thoracle is bad combo bc my commander is stifle, losing to stax is impossible if i simply always draw the response" saying just play these cards to never lose to these busted cards, is fundamentally misunderstanding what banning a card means, its to stop busted cards from dictating what everyone has to play in every single deck just so they can have fun with their ridiculously busted card.
i wonder if golos would be alright now, seems like there's a lot of powercreep these days
Proxy and fakes will flood the market. Like me i wont buy anymore high end cards
Good. Nobody should pay 20$ plus for a pierce of cardboard and ink.
That is the best part about this. Maybe now all the psychos spending hundreds of bucks on pieces of cardstock will finally stop...
Y’all know that a cheap jeweler’s loop is all it takes to avoid counterfeit cards, right?
@@Jlizard27 or just don't buy the overpriced broken shit...
I'm not buying any card that cost more than a dollar, quality proxies can be as cheap as $.75, so if it cost more than that, fuck wizards, fuck the rules committee, and thanks to both of them, all that's happening is the Loss of income to my lgs.
That's the point of rule zero. Knowing what power level you're playing against and another major issue is the accessibility of powerful cards is behind a paywall allowing proxies would've tanked the value of expensive cards it's crazy that cardboard goes for more than $100
I agree, obviously death threats are unacceptable. Money has always been one of the largest motives for murder. If an unhinged person has a large position on the banned cards, it could result in unexpected actions.
Pre and post Sheldon Commander is such a massive difference. I can see why JLK felt better earlier on, and as time progressed saw it’s all just getting worse
Yeah it really feels like since Sheldon’s passing, WOTC and the CAG have been doing some crazy things to the format.
@@RoninRose541 WotC and CAG do not regulate the format. WotC can only print cards, CAG is, as is it is in the name, only >advise
@@RoninRose541I have to disagree. I think it has been a sweet, steady trend of Wizards getting away with more since even a decade ago.
Sheldon's death has hurt this format. This was the last format I played but I lost all faith in MTG. I will stop buying cards and maybe come back in a few years.
@@justinortammygraham6548 Do what I did, not pay for cards and play anyways. It helps to find your own bubble in the wild west of games.
Also, I felt like Sheldon's passing should have not impacted much except sentiments. As the format is was a lot bigger than just him. But maybe we could have found it inspiring to be more optimistic in this community.
Why do 50% of this video have to be "Don't herass anyone."?
How old are we?
What kind of people watch this video? Noone should have to say this.
Please just be a decent human - okay?
There's a lot of specific kinds of people in the tcg community. Common sense isn't as common as we'd like to believe.
Have you ever spent a bunch of money on something you love, and then have some random swipe it from you? Ain’t a great feeling boss, people deserve to be pissed and the RC deserves to hear it (minus d threats obviously)
@@SmokeADighave I ever? Yeah, literally every time a new set is printed. WotC's current philosophy towards product development has done much more harm to the players at large and the longevity of the game's value than anything will. All cards will trend to 0 given enough time, as they become weaker and weaker relative to new content.
This is nothing new. It just came from a source you didn't expect. If the RC didn't do it, WotC would eventually.
No piece of cardboard is worth making people feel unsafe over. Threats of violence and harassment are not acceptable ever. It's cardboard, get a grip!
I always go harass the person when a content creator tells me not to. I won't be told what to do. 😂
JLK, a man of the people ✊
He's just butthurt he got out voted, and now has to negotiate at Rule 0 to be allowed to use his busted cards at the casual table. If he really cared about the format, he would have stayed on in his advisory position as a voice if opposition to things like this in the future.
Instead he's just going to take his ball and go home to cry.
@raiserofchickens they don't listen, they never have.
there's a reason why he left, and you're acting like you know what it is. but you're crying over strong cards, so I wouldn't expect the type who are unable to adapt to make a good point.
@-8h- You mean juat like how everyone accusing the RC of offloading their cards to make money before the ban announcement is acting like they know that is what happened, even though they can't know that for sure?
By leaving the RC instead of sticking around to act as a counterpoint to the rest of the committe JLK shows he is unwilling or unable to adapt to the changing environment of the EDH format, and therefore, by your own professed opinion, means his opinions should be ignored because they are not good enough.
Did I get that wrong? Or are you just going to call me names and disparage my points without offering anything constructive of your own?
@@raiserofchickens He was on the CAG, not the RC. He didn't vote and didn't get consulted. How would he advise and be a voice of opposition is they just ignore him? He is basically just a meat shield for the outcry while having no part it the decision making process. I would not stay either.
I really don't understand peoples' outrage considering WOTC could reprint all of those cards into the ground making them $1 rares. People need to calm down. Over the years I have seen many of my commander staples get reprinted thus lowering the value of my collection. Oracle of mul daya for example used to be a $40 rare.
let them cry its fun.
JLK is a huge contributor to what Commander is and why it succeeded. 2-3 magic content creators have huge amounts of power in the community. It's probably for the best that these people don't also run the format. The CAG is purely an advisory group that the RC consults when it wants to.
"When it wants to" - And they didn't, and they're facing massive backlash because of it.
who is the RC though if not also random members of the community that are dictating that everyone has to play the way they want to
@@pyroshadow33 The RC are the people who invented the format and people they interviewed to work alongside them in that capacity. If you don't want to play their format, don't, but they own it.
@@phaedrosx The backlash is absolutely not about the CAGs involvement. If the CAG approved there would still be backlash. Don't talk nonsense.
@@apjapkilmao no.
Sheldon didn't even invent the format. The people on the CAG are elitists chosen by the progressive scum bags at mtg.
Well, time to.proxy. i remember when yugioh shot themselves in the foot with link format they changed that within the year.
This is a very different kinda situation, yugioh actually does this all the time, hell they just banned appo, and the last list they banned baron, both were relatively expensive cards that were hurting the game.
yugioh bans and sunsets cards all the time but tbh these bans for magic kind of prevented mtg from slipping into the rut that yugioh is in with fast mana/play
@@eddiemarohl5789 yea bro, i left ygo to find a slower more meaningful game speed, but man, these people act like ygo is ideal speeds
... I miss link format.
Basic land, glue stick and printer and you're set. I stopped buying expensive cards a while ago because of things like this.
Just start a different "unofficial" Rules Committee and I'm sure the movement will gain momentum by Commander fans and their bans won't matter anymore to what most people accept as legal.
I mean, I don't blame the guy he was getting a lot of hate from all of this when he wasn't the one to make the decision. He doesn't gain anything from it, only loses. Plus, he has a business to run decisions like this does impact him and his team members.
I have a Mana Crypt, and never played it because the rest of my playgroup doesn't run it. IMO the banned list sets up some loose ground rules for playing wirh randos. Playing with friends/etc? Play whatever you want. The RC isn't going to kick your door down for playing a banned card.
My thoughts on it exactly. It's alot easier to rule 0 something that's not allowed rather than rule 0 ban something that is (except for cases like nadu). Wanna play fast and furious? Rule 0 jewel and crypt in easy nuff. Wanna rule in mechtitan core as a commander? Go for it that sounds sick. And hey now more budget minded players can get some cheap manacrypts from the panicking cEDH players
Would rather my opponent who underplayed the power of his deck play turn 1 mana crypt and lotus then turn 4 thoracle. They should ban stuff that’s actually not fun to go against..
Idk man. WoTC did send Pinkertons to a man's house for receiving and opening a booster box he was accidentally sent way earlier than the pre-release. I joke here, but what happened was true.
WOTC did send Pinkertons to a man's house... they could😂😂😂
That's literally what it says to do on the ban list website. It says it's guidelines for random groups, not for established groups
As first as it gets
this is a bearing of bad news...I hope it has nothing to do with the bans or the reaction of a part of the community towards the RC.
It was because the RC blindsided him and the rest of the CAG because they feared leaks.
It does lol
@@TheGoodColonel To be fair. An Advisory Group is an advisory group. Expecting privileged information is a little... wrong IMO.
They were talked to about the speed of the format. And then the RC took action to slow the format.
Or because of the threats towards RC and CAG members
I hope it does. RC deserves the backlash
This has showed me that the rc and cag need to be more Open and act faster. Mana crypt i feel is a víctim of future proofing the format cause of how good they 4cmc cards are getting. But dockside and Lotus where point as problemátic on their releases. They let them run "free" for enough time that generated this reaction when they finally reacted. If thouse cards would have get the nadu treatment here i don't think the backlash would have been this Big. specially since jeweled and dockside allways where "problemátic" and when an opinions was given it was "we Will See"
So you're upset there was no warning about a cryptban, but also upset that there was warnings about a dockside and jeweled lotus ban?,
I mean JLK and Jimmy both had a preview of Jeweled Lotus from WotC and both said that it shouldn’t be a thing to them.
@@alecmullaney7957 im upset of how inconsistent they are with the thing. and their warnings are never like a solid warning its a "yeah i see your point we will think about it" and now they this this but the last ban and un ban before this where cards that lets be honest no one gave a damn before.
Really don't understand the whole "risk of leaks" thing - why couldn't they just make an announcement that "As of Jan 1 2025, the following cards will be banned" so players have time to plan and glare think their decks while still being able to play them this weekend ect.
market stuff probably
I assume so collectors(specifically investors) and comp players don't just mass sell their cards, or get upset with LGS when they may refuse to buy banned cards, because of the diminishing value that starts the day bans were teased.
"More like guidelines than actual rules" said by Barbosa in Pirates is a great way to look at commander. Play what you want. It's about intent. I'd rather play someone with jeweled lotus, mana crypt, and dockside in a single deck than someone playing stax pieces, heavy counters, or "you win" combos. Even though I hate those strats I'd never suggest banning them. Let people play what they want and I can decide whether or not I'm down for it...
Bring back Griselbrand
Ugh. No
i can understand his point. The thing is Commander was a casual format (more or less) first and now that there are cards specific for the format and the cedh format booming more then ever i think its time to seperate those 2 formats and have individual rules. The bans hit casual players far less then cedh players (many casuals with fixed groups probably dont care anyway) and in cedh those cards would still be fine without completly trashing the value of their cards
WOTC used these banned cards last year to drive the sales of overpriced premium sets and then this year pulls the rug out from underneath. At the very least, it takes advantage of those who love the game most.
WotC and the Rules Committee are separate
@@djomni115it don’t matter the factor of how it was stated they take to each other causes that speculation that the rc said hey we are probably gonna ban these and wotc said ok and printed them anyway or it’s the opposite and maybe wtoc had no idea they would be banned but that’s the hope talking
@@avatarius6285there was no speculation. This came out of blue. This might be the first time WOTC isn’t responsible.
@@austinparks997 read my whole comment next time
@@avatarius6285between the grammar and spelling errors it was a little hard, sorry
Have you considered that the hostility from the community might possibly be a reason he left? It would make me want to leave.
With the point of "Rule Zero" being to keep overpowered decks out of a casual pod, clearly we don't want cEDH in an EDH pod. With that being the case, it is likely time to enable cEDH to become its own format. They could split off, unban literally everything which would open up a significant number of new brewing options with the added bonus of giving the recently (and formerly) banned cards some value back. After 6 months, reevaluate the unbanning of everything, pulse the health of the new format and ban accordingly. EDH could then expand upon their banned list, lowering the power ceiling on the EDH format without doing it at the expense of the cEDH community. Win/win.
This is what i personaly would wish for. The two formats become less and less the same thing. And the Mindset of the players of the two formats seems to drift apart more as well. Why try to make these two different groups of people share a format? Just let them have fun with their own way of playing commander and everyones happy.
This should have always been the case since cEDH was made a thing. Legacy, pioneer, modern, standard
I've kind of quit the casual side of edh and just play competitive. Not because I like it better, but to avoid rule 0. I think the RC/CAG might be shifting on rule 0 which is great for casual honestly. Untrusted games outside of established playgroup is the primary way the game is played. Rule 0 just doesn't work there. The RC is in a position to fix that (bans, but also possibly other ideas like point systems) and they've chosen not to for way too long. I wonder if people like JLK (let people play cards faction) are resisting that. I think there were some hurt feelings here too about lack of consultation but for commander to thrive as a format it needs more regulation to help new players in untrusted games. For cEDH (gameplay wise) this is big but when people calm down I think it will be fine. Red needs help and big commanders are less viable. I think too many people fool themselves into paying thousands of dollars into cards be cause it is an "investment". It's a game. You can lose your shirt very easily. Buy real estate if you want to invest.
Lol @ investing in real estate being a viable option for any millennial or younger who isn’t rich. I don’t think of magic cards as a financial investment (more as a time investment), because, like you said, prices are fickle, but I just thought that was funny.
socially maladjusted
@@Jlizard27 true the prices of magic cards are more arbitrary than crypto and with reprints especially it's not a good place to invest outside of reserve list cards.
Very well said. Rule 0 is a great concept but there have been tons of times playing with random people at the LGS that someone drops a dockside and a mana crypt in our mid power games and those games are just the worst… You need some regulation even in a casual format with rule zero because not everyone has the same idea of what power levels are, what cards are problematic, etc.
@@Ollig999agreed I play mid power decks and a cedh guy wanted to play with us but he said it's mid power. Had almost all cedh cards. Deck was probably worth 10k to our 85$ decks.
In a casual format, i fundamentally believe we should not allow a commander that makes all mono color decks unplayable on its own to be legal, sorry we want more people to be able to play the game, or at least try to.
That’s an understood statement, but I had literally been playing Commander for multiple years prior to that ban and had never seen that commander once. It comes down to having the cajones to tell someone who is playing unfun decks to eff off or play something more enjoyable to be at the table with. A social format like commander can 100% regulate itself
Yeah, opposing the Paradon ban alone is enough for me to understand them not consulting Josh specifically. Their reasoning is sound, but I understand that members of the CAG feel useless. That said, everyone and their mother knows how Josh feels about bans, you don't need to have a private meeting to figure that out.
@@Alphadog2064this is straight wrong. It can absolutely not regulate itself and rule 0 is a good concept but nothing more. If you have an absolutely fixed playgroup and never deviate then maybe you'll be able to talk it out to a degree. But as soon as you venture out even slightly into playing with strangers or even that one friend who's understanding of a casual deck is utter bs, rule 0 does absolutely nothing... banning broken pay yo win cards is absolutely a fantastic move and more should be banned.
Maybe WOTC should not have cards printed that do that. They know what they are doing.
@@Son0fAggression Yeah but think about winter orb and stasis, do you ever see them? no. The community absolutely self regulates and will self regulate with Iona.
I feel like these are necessary bans, as are Iona and Paradox. I understand JLK's frustration with advising not to do them, and they did, but I think they asked you and 20 other people for your opinion and you were 1 of 3 with that opinion. Yes, we all have the right to have an opinion, but not all of us think the same.
I have admired JLK a lot since I entered the world of Commander, and your vote is completely valid, but it is one of many votes, not the final vote.
Now, Command Zone is a casual space, I wonder exactly what JLK's advice was with these cards.
The entire point of this video is that he wasn’t given the option to state his opinion. They had asked the cag “sometime in the past” and they were never asked explicitly about banning these cards. That’s why he’s upset. The job of the cag is to advise the rules committee on their decisions. Which he wasn’t allowed to do.
Just give cEDH a format/list.
The entire point of cedh is that it’s the strongest form of edh, it having a completely different ban list and being considered its own format makes it nearly pointless.
That’s like having a video game where the “ranked” version of the game is a completely different game with un nerfed weapons/ hero’s. Cedh’s appeal is that people want to play/ watch the highest level of “commander” not “commander adjacent”
And nothing of value was lost.
This whole saga has been insane. This is why WotC needs a better reprint policy, these cards should not hold so much monetary value that they cause this much of a disaster when they are rightfully deemed too powerful to exist in a healthy game. The only people I feel bad for losing money here are small time vendors and LGSes. The margins on this stuff is usually not very large so this could seriously impact them, but if you are mad about wasting $100-$200 on these cards you obviously have the disposable income to waste
I knew there would be a breaking point. I stopped buying products a few years back because I knew Wizards was being extremely greedy. But people kept buying into it, and became further okay with Wizards not being helpful to a budget.
Hobbies cost money, I hope you never upgrade a precon you grab, because then you would be partaking in the "pay to win." Crazy calling people who play the powerful cards are not allowed to be upset by the brok-est of the community. Nice.
@@skylerdavis8839 completely missed my point. My point is that if you bought a Mana Crypt then you are either A) well off enough that you shouldn't be whining about the value of these cards, or B) purchasing things that are outside of your means and spending your money irresponsibly. And if you need these cards to have fun then why not go play vintage or Canadian Highlander instead of throwing a hissy fit like this
@@UniGyaWhat is your problem with people spending money of their hobby? I traded for a mana crypt a few years ago and I had sold it well before this ban ever happened. I’ve bought cards that are expensive and I would very well afford them. But that doesn’t mean I’m ok with value to my collection just disappearing.
I generally disagree with josh on bans. These rules are mostly for organized events where people WILL abuse cards and try to downplay the powerlevel of their deck. I cant even think of how many times ive heard someone call their korvold deck “level 7.” Rule 0 still exists for those who want to have fun. Just keep the crazy or toxic cards out of randos hands at events.
Basically they said we dont trust the CAG. I would have quit right away as well. Actually every single one of them should
Major point is also: You don't ask the CAG for their input BECAUSE you don't want leaks - so there seems to be no trust. Whats the point of having the CAG then, if you don't want to involve them because you don't trust them keeping stuff to themselves....
Well we know there were leaks anyway...so clearly some people were telling their friends
@@joshholmes1372 thats fair but then where is the point of having the CAG? If you just pretend to know their stance and then you just do what you want without hearing them and understand their arguments? This was setup for failure....
That is a null point, whatever cards whatever cards that would get leaked from CAG adding their input would probably already be on mythicspoiler long before CAG so much as cracks a pack
They said they've talked to them many times about these cards, they just specifically didn't tell them that they were going to actually ban them
The point of the CAG is to have more reach into community to get a wider perspective on the format as a whole. The CAG members share their experiences and feedback form the parts of the community they’re in contact with to the RC.
The RC takes that information and makes ruling based on that and their own views on things. They don’t necessarily ask the CAG if they think certain cards should be banned.
Sorry but Commander isn't a real format. There's no other wizards recognized format where some other outside force makes decisions on what is or isn't banned and there's no other format where who you're playing against decides what you are or aren't going to play against them. Commander needs to decide whether it's a serious format or a *just for fun format* and if it is a just for fun format people need to stop punishing others for using proxies. Everyone of you that guilted someone into not proxying a crypt, lotus or dockside cost someone money they won't be getting back.
Based.
People against proxies are just the wrong sort of gatekeepers.
We need to gatekeep degenerates out of magic, not proxies.
@@anannoyedpanda I cannot for the life of me understand how so many can call wizards a corrupt company that needs to change and then in the same breath scream about how you shouldn't make or buy proxies because it'll kill the game. If the people that make it are corrupt and need to change how do you think that change is going to happen if you keep buying the product and they continue to post record sales numbers? Do they really not realize they are rewarding the company for awful behavior or is the fomo so strong they just don't care.
Oh no, someones playing card devalued. The horror. Magic isnt the stock market, if youre concerned about "asset depreciation" you shouldnt be playing
It is a format, it’s not a sanctioned tournament format.
@@notarealperson8956 I don't worry about that. If it's not RL once it hits 10 dollars it gets traded in at the shop for store credit. I don't play any wizards recognized format anymore and the formats I do play allow proxies.
It is time for wizards to ban RC.
Rc made a good call. They need to ban more problematic cards.
Not sure if I'm just jaded but I've seen too many "public announcements" as just attention seeking. You can just as easily resign cuz you no longer agree and etc without making it a big public deal. Honestly I don't even know what CAG is so my only response is a resounding Saitama, "okay."
Seems people really are losing sight of commander's identity as fun and casual 😮💨
Literally every single comment on the recent videos on the command zone is just people shitting on him. When there’s that much hate and toxicity I think making public is a very good idea
To start, I’ve lost out on money having 3 of the four cards banned. On top of owning many of the other banned cards in the format.
The amount of hate directed at the RC and others in the community is draining and makes me not want to continue participating in said community. People are right to be upset they lost out big time financially, but at the end of the day EDH is a game, and games have to address issues that pop up. Mana crypt and Jeweled lotus represented “pay to win” in my eyes ever since I started playing. Play pieces should never have been allowed to get that expensive in the first place and the blame lays on WOTC for not shifting things around to address it. they are great cards and if you want to play them against others who have equally powerful decks then that’s awesome! But in the wider audience most people don’t own these staples and probably never will because of the rarity/cost and will only see these cards as win more. That is the opinion of this casual. I’m sorry for those who lost out, praying that the recovery from the losses will be swift and those who move on will have a new hobby to enjoy
The thing is the problem didn't "pop up" the cards were legal for many years.... of course I am against the aggresion, but that wasnt the way to handle the bans either I guess
sorry for losing money but it is just game at the end of the day. hope u recover tho
@@floppyears788 agreed. I think the point of how it was announced is what everyone wishes was done better
@@trollingsoul3386 thank you, I’m blessed to have different formats I can slot the cards into for decks so I get to experience more of this wonderful game we all love.
The amount of toxicity and vitriol I've seen from the community is horrifying. i actually feel a bit embarrassed to be associated with this community now.
Yup. Need to start gatekeeping
It's not a community.
@@KupoPotion it's mostly collectors and investors who are mad. Most people don't care because it's a game first, collectors second and investment last.
@@inferno1305 Not at all. I'm a casual player and I hate this ban. I rarely see those cards in the casual pods except when we all pull out our best decks. It's just dumb that the few cool cards we pull can't be used in a casual format. And it doesn't solve any issues at all.
I am fully casual. I don’t collect. This ban was so brain dead and upsetting. Then learning that wizards had known it was on the chopping block just to make some of these cards chase cards within the last year.
make your point and move on, we don't need to hear it 4 times worded slightly differently - some constructive criticism
I mostly play CEDH, this is a good band I'm happy with it, it'll make things different. I'm not a big fan of the dockside extortionist ban, solely because it allowed people that didn't go first to catch up. I'll get over it. Absolutely wild how upset people are getting when most of their play groups don't even play these cards
Who?
Hahahahahaha
TBH the bans were a bad call, at least for the reasons the rules committee suggests. Saying rule 0 doesn't fix problems with these cards isn't the right way to say it. It's more that rule 0s simply aren't as common as they probably should be in casual... I often see a lot of "shuffle up n start" going on.
And a lot of people get... creative... in their rule 0 discussions in what they mention. Or it's with newer people who don't totally get why mana crypt is powerful. Or you say "yeah I'd prefer no crypt" and they don't have spare cards to sub (why would you for a card that's allowed)
Rule 0 is only truly effective in established play groups. Rule 0 them back in if rule 0 works.
I think his perspective has had more than enough impact on the format. Change is good, and there should probably be more of an effort to diversify the perspectives on the RC and CAG - starting with cutting the number of RUclipsrs and MtG celebrities down to a reasonable level.
It’s a game. It’s not an investment. That says it all. Be adult. Be polite. Be respectful. Be responsible. We should talk if those cards were a good design to the format or not and instead almost all YT creators talk about money. It’s… it’s… so wrong.
It is an investment though.
@@tehRaptors no. Stocks are investment. And Mitch said that dozens of times. This is card game.
@@TheLibr4rian A card game can also be an investment. It isn't one or the other. it can be both. Just because you don't see it as an investment or use it as one doesn't mean it isn't.
Your video proves that Josh was being completely useless in these groups. Against paradox engine? Not in favour of Hullbreacher? I don't like the banlist at all, but there are some cards that destroy the format. If he is against any ban, he shouldn,t be there since that's why they are there...
I've always been with JLK on his opinions of the RC's role when it came to bans. We need less bans and more conversations. How hard is it for people to just talk about the type of game or the speed of the game you want to have before sitting down to play? If someone sits down to a table and brings a high-tier deck to 3 other precons (or a precon to 3 other high tier) then that's a conversation issue. If someone doesn't divulge what their deck does and essentially "lies" about their lines of play then don't play with them again or move on. Why is it so hard to just talk? Do you all just sit there in silence while you play? Apparently, my community doesn't have this Mana Crypt and JLO epidemic that the rest of you have. It's not warping games or formats.
I agree with you, but in the other direction. I've had a few rule 0 talks where we lay out the power levels of our decks and one player's definition of 7 is.... not the same as everyone else's. And I'm a talker, so I don't typically have issues communicating, but there are definitely folks in my community who would prefer to not spend any time on rule 0.
I think bans are a helpful starting point for rule 0, putting the onus on players to communicate why they are including certain cards rather than having to ask to exclude those cards every game. Having bans on cards that people want to play can help make rule 0 a common practice, especially when playing with people you don't know well.
@@Graemyr That's why I never use "power level" for decks anymore. Everyone is a 7 or less. Everyone believes they aren't a 9 or 10 and just run barely better than Precons. I prefer to ask how fast are we winning or how long are we looking to play? Are we playing combos and infinites? Asking someone to tell me their deck and what it's trying to do is a lot easier to guess or assess a person's deck then to ask a power level. I can understand the idea behind saying it's easier to ask to play a banned card then to ask them not to play a card or a certain deck in our Rule Zero conversations, but I don't see it solving the overall issues at a casual table. If they were a problem with the cards before the ban with fast mana then they will continue to be a problem unless you start having those conversations. That's my experience. :)
You are right, it should be simple. I think there’s some bad faith players out there who use the pregame discussions to gain an advantage. I’ve for sure played against them at my LGS in the past and is one of the reasons I don’t play at that LGS anymore. I also know people who undersell or oversell the power range of their decks and it leads to feel bad games.
Its exactly like the freakout of Warhammer Fantasy players when GW announced, that they dont support Warhammer Fantasy anymore. lol.
once the dust is settle best course of action would be creating a new commander format similar to vintage that has 0 ban cards , maybe we can call it RULE 0
Have fun playing against a braids cabal minion deck.
@@RobRuckus65 I have tergrid cedh deck and if this ever happens she’ll be going in.
I had a tergrid cedh and it only played against cedh.@iLOVExPower
You can do this now at your table. It sounds bad though. Bans are good.
Or how about Commander Classic? Rules and cards before Universes Beyond
Ban the entire reserved list from the “casual” format.
Just be transparent… they want their investments to go up (reserved list) and they want people to panic sell so they can buy low.
Stop using rule 0 as an excuse to not have bans.
Rule 0 has never really applied to Randoms at an LGS.
Rule 0 only applies to home games or people you can actually call friends.
Bans are guidelines for public interactions at an LGS.
So when they're playing a banned card, there's "rules" that can be pointed to.
Rule 0 does apply to randoms at the LGS in as much as you're willing to talk to them and try to get to know how their decks are composed and what they do.
What? the CRC literally said the bans are BECAUSE random users aren't using Rule 0 and now a new Rule 0 will be made to "make sure people only play with like minded people"
My lgs has their own rule 0 they put on top of the banlist. Essentially an extra banlist unless we clear it with the table first. A forced rule 0 :)
@@BussyConnoisseur agree completely. Much easier to rule 0 an exception than a ban.
@@ernst_aames2005 assuming said random are not downplaying the capabilities of their own decks, either due to malice or incompetence
Every deck is a 7 after all
Didn’t really see these bans causing such an uproar I just felt that I guess owned one aka a jewel lotus that I luckily pulled never drew it in my deck except my first test but never saw it in a game again and the others were just to expensive and no one in my play groups had one unless they cracked a pack I get people loss money but this game was not supposed to be a financial investment just some cards might cost more.
I don’t fully agree with Josh and yes in commander it’s casual you should be able to play your cards BUT some cards need to be looked through a fine toothed comb when deciding to remove a card that and their are over thousands of cards with degenerate things so I don’t know sometimes a ban will cause big stuff and most importantly the ban cards are like guidelines anyway and rule 0 exists that and official play is where it’s relevant and that’s not the main player base
If you want to kill the people that make the rules for our silly little wizard card fighting game, you need to get help and to stop playing.
If you care more about your cardboard stock portfolio then the health of the game we all love, you should sell it all now and quit playing.
If you can't respect a banned list when your favorite broken monstrosity is put on it then you should just quit playing.
Honestly most of the community should be banned from playing.
Magic should be gate kept to only let normal functional people play.
Get the weirdos out.
Very inclusive. So be a sheep or gtfo?
Ehh, you absolutely dont have to respect any ban. Disagreement is fine.
Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus, broken monstrosities? Were you high when you made this comment?
@@Medowokha-bp5lq Are you high now? Jeweled lotus and Mana Crypt are, formatwise, some of the best cards in the entire game. Its a massive consideration for a commander to ask "do I get full value out of jeweled lotus?" They are in fact, broken monstrosities. Fuck, mana crypt could make colossal dreadmaw look good if you slam it turn 2 or 3.
Only reason my pod is mad is because they play cEDH for tournaments and since sanctioned events from WoTC don't adhere to rule 0 so it's pointless to play with those cards no matter what. No point in practicing with cards you can't bring into a tournament.
Personally, I love the bans because I'm a more casual player and didn't have the income to get those cards in the first place like my other podmates. They were not fun to play against and I feel the format will come out healthier once all is calmed down.
Dude, are you trying to reach a particular length of the video? You repeat a lot of points over and over.
Made it to the first five minute advertisement and this content farmer has said absolutely nothing
I respected his opinion and experience and his voice on the CAG, but since I tend to disagree with a lot of his takes and perspective on the format, this counts as good news for me.
All of this is silly. It’s a CASUAL format. You can still play banned cards. Who’s going to stop you?
That's why I run several copies of crypt in my decks
The people you play with. Unless you have a dedicated friend group that disregards bans. If you don't disclose cards during a rule zero conversation, you'll probably not play with them again because you aren't being transparent.
What makes it even dumber is how its one of those things that can be pretty easily exiled as well.
@@MrMegakiller912 that's the thing, though? That's all commander needs. it's not -meant- to be played in official formats, that's the opposite of the point in making it.
All this garbage bureaucracy is just unnecessary alien bloat.
I think that now because they're on the ban list, people have to argue for their use in Rule 0. Which, I can see being an issue, because the same arguments one would use to be allowed to play Crypt Lotus and Dockside can apply to anything else on the ban list.
I know I would. Why should someone be allowed to play Crypt but not Black Lotus or the ABU Moxes?
And with Commander becoming a proxy friend format, any card can be doctored up on the fly, so accessibility isn't an issue.
I think this banning is mostly stupid. But these toxic fans getting so upset about it are acting like a babies. If you dont want tour cards to drop in valie, dont buy powerful cards. The fact is that powerful cards are generally the ones that get banned.
I've been following this on Twitter, the RC people are getting death threats sent to them and their families from deranged people upset about the bans. I would guess that is the reason why he's divested himself from the issue.
While that doesn't help, I think he would own that if he actually agreed with them: He's being targeted for something they did against his recommendation. You should probably watch the video before commenting next time.
everyone that's still complaining about the bans honestly need to just grow up at this point
Of course they couldn't inform the Cag ahead of time. That would've gave members of the cag the chance to sell those cards fast at high prices before the announcement. They're collectors and players first and that would've given them a huge advantage to abuse the secondary market.
100%
Wizards knew this was coming and dumped all of their extra product that had these chase cards into the convention in a box. Disgusting!
Thanks for using your voice to talk about all this in a sane and calm way. I've seen so many people, including creators, reacting very negatively, as if their voice won't fuel the flames.
as someone who primarily plays 60 card formats: this is pretty normal and healthy for a format
(also people getting mad at the RC for wotc making these cards chase cards and expensive is stupid, it’s not their fault that wotc uses manipulative business practices, get mad at them not the RC)
Maybe, just maybe, people quit 60-card formats in droves to play commander and most LGSs can't fire them for a reason...
You do know that they've wanted to ban the cards for quite some time and the RC agreed to not put the ban out until WotC printed out another product with them in it so they could make more money off of them one last time.
The state of modern already proved you wrong.
just a quick thing lutri would not be a 101st card. its sill part of the 99 and would just have been a guranteed card you have access too in its zone with no restriction. still should be banned for that reason.
I mean, WOTC is a business and it must drive them crazy that their most popular format is not regulated or even created BY THEM. These bans feel like there is some kind of power struggle over control of the format rather than actual balancing. People forget that the rules committee is just a made up thing for a player made-up format. Play what you want
Honestly, the second any card sells for more than like 10 Bucks a piece, thats the final flag WOTC should need to reprint it.
I would even go lower. Its a piece of Cardboard. It has maybe 2 cents worth of material in it.
And as soon as a non-Land card is pretty much a "must include in every Deck" card, it should be banned.
So if they reprint a card into the ground to get the price to tank then those cards will become auto includes due to being so cheap. Then we will have 100s of new bans every year.
@@tacoguy100 Then maybe someone at WOTC should start to worry about card balancing instead of just caring about pushing out a new set every .3 seconds. And yes, way more cards should be banned to encourage creativity in Deck Building. There are so many cards that noone uses because some cards that appear in like 80% of all the Decks that can run it is just leagues better than any comparable card.
Yes, I think alot of "staples" should be banned. Commander Decks have been infested by brainrot and lack of creativity way too long. I shouldnt be able to correctly guess half the cards in your Deck just based on the color identity of your commander alone.
But that shouldnt be achived by making the crazy broken cards just so expensive that the game becomes pay to win. It should be solved exactly like they did here, by identifying problems and banning them.
@@tacoguy100that means there’s a much more fundamental flaw in their system then. If price is the only thing keeping a card from ubiquity, commander instead becomes a class-dependent format (I’m very pro-proxying to be clear).
@Jlizard27 I'm all for proxy, especially if you already own a copy. But those of us that have spent money over the years or traded in cards to get better cards deserve to be able to play these cards. Besides commander has rule 0. You discuss what cards are okay at the table or not okay. There should not be a ban list. Run removal
I knew magic whales were sensitive but damn.... You know you all ain't going anywhere. You just want a weird pity party before you buy a collector box of duskmourn next weekend to make yourselves feel better
💯 agree. I hate to admit it, but magic whales will never change and will sweep for WOTC with their spending.
I feel like this is a bit dismissive of the people that owned one mana crypt or one jeweled lotus and had to save up for it
@@ernst_aames2005 I've made bad investments that cost me way more than a couple hundred. Not one has made me quit my job
while im indifferent to the ban. its super sus that the committee kept quiet about this bans. i 100% believe they kept their mouth shut on wizards orders so wizards can keep selling boxes. their posts on why they did this they way they did made no sense and was sketch.
IDK if its because of the bans but more the HATE from the community.
When stuff like this happens everyone even percieved to be involved are going to take strays. What a shame
"This is a game. It is not a financial investment." 😂
Some people will never agree with or understand that.
@@Srynan same people who will get mad if the expensive card they own gets a reprint
@@RG-wv3gt when I was a newer magic player I got a bit mad when goldspan tanked in price but then I realized I wasn't going to ever sell my goldspans I don't sell my cards much at all unless it's a powerhouse card that I'd refuse to play. Goldspan was the card I got in my first mtg pack too. But yeah when the price tank happened I was a bit miffed and then was like "why am I mad again?" Now I don't care if a card I have tanks in price only the ones I don't have lol
Then they should charge money for the paper it was printed on, the idea that went into it and the workforce needed to create that cardboard. And thats it. But they dont. They charge money for artifical value and people treat it as such. It is to some degree an "investment" when they sell it as one
Because it's not accurate. Everything is an investment and mtg used to be a good one. They are hurting faith in the game. You don't see how that's bad?
People understand it fine...but the cards having value is literally what makes them collectable / tradable, which is a huge part of the TCG formula. Your statement is no better than the finance bros who think Magic cards are stocks. There is nuance in the middle, e.g. where reality lives.
They should have just banned THE BIRD
Can we all just agree that we all love the game and try to have fun, no matter if you're playing EDH or cEDH?❤
That's what is most important. But the sad thing is many are closed up on their own bubbles and making a big fuss like children instead of adults.
No.
I am still trying to understand why some cards cost less than a dollar while other cards cost thousands. They're the same cardboards.
@@Surfer669 We can go that rabbit hole, but I'm sure neither of us has the time for that. Bottom line, there's a few factors that come in to play with market manipulation, and those factors all determine a card's price. It's very dumb, considering this should be a friendly card game and not a financial investment.
exactly there are other ways to play than turbo commander find something that works and is fun
I see a new Commander format coming from this...
Lotus and goblin should never have been printed. Crypt should have been banned day one alongside sol ring. They never shoukd have reprinted any of it.
Your pleas fall on deaf ears. The internet hordes will have their pound of flesh.
Commander isn't a competitive format . Play with Proxies and no Ban List. Go ham.
There are tournaments around some high power and cedh level decks being played. There is a competitive side to commander, just not everyone wants to play competitively in the format. The players are very divided when it comes to this and I am stuck right in the middle. Because although I know it was created to be a “casual” format, a lot of us have played multiple games and built curiosity as we went on to play more and more games, things like (could we add this to our decks, and make them a bit faster so we can play more games instead of having this 1 match for 2 hours?) See naturally, the format does evolve. I think we’re either denying the fact that formats have the right to evolve or some players are outright trying to purposely trying to restrict players to what they can and can’t do, that to me is a far worse type of gatekeeping vs the price of the cards a lot of these players were complaining about. If you want to play casual and at precon levels or maybe a bit upgraded, go for it! If you want to play at a higher level it should also be a thing. Why attempt to restrict that? It makes no sense.
@@Oz__MTG sure that is why cEDH exists, I play modern for my competitive magic itch (rip standard). I play commander for a ~2 hour game. Because once or twice a month I get 3-6 friends over and we sit down and play stupid commander games and sometimes people pop-off and other times everyone is on a precon. Formats evolve yes; but then they shouldn't be the same format. I don't want filthy casuals in my modern games trying to say we should ban fetches or whatever. I don't want Tryhards telling my not to proxy in commander.
If you have to actually police it and force it to stay casual then maybe it actually is a competitive format
@@davidm.corbin4643 Every style of player can exist in commander.
Oh my god, the pun in your name and icon is incredible. I only just realized why it’s a piggy bank.
Dear Mr. Mitch,
Ive been a follower for a while now and I remember the Golos Meltdown.
I watched your video on that 3 times and found that I disagreed with you every time.
If I recall, you showed us a statistic about the number of decks that ran Golos as the commander. It was an extremely high percentage. I believe that is exactly why he got banned. Not just for the crazy combos he had to loop his activated ability or fetching a basic. It was becoming so prolific that EVERYONE was playing him and nothing else.
It's like when a Standard Tournament showcases the top 8 decks and they are all the same.* (minus a card or two)
I appreciate your videos and I will continue watching.
Sincerely,
Concerned Viewer
Well, wasn't expecting that this morning
I'm pretty over what a huge deal everyone is making this out to be. It's a TCG. Cards get banned all the time. There is ALWAYS a possibility a card will be banned no matter what it does. Sometimes balancing a game means banning things.
Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
With commander being an Eternal format, there are THOUASNADS AND THOUSANDS of cards available to be used in commander, all the way back to OG Magic. Bans are the only way to fix or correct problematic combinations or cards that clearly exceed the power curve. Mana Crypt is just Sol Ring with a minor damage drawback and 0 cost, so ya if you get it in you opening hand its nuts, same for Sol Ring. However its not been re-printed in a long time and it was going to, and getting to be, a staple auto-include card, Sol Ring is that card now and cannot ever be banned. Bannings are healthy for the format, it just looks like Wizards has been FAR FAR FAR too slow with coming out with bans for a very long time. Lotus and Crypt probably should have been banned many years ago....
I definitely agree the Rules Committee did this on their own - without data, without metrics, and without any evidence that making the game slower makes the game better .
Commander is inherently designed to be slow, but you're right on the other points
JLK advising against paradox engine ban is all the information i needed about his ability to judge mtg properly.
Really, for me its iona, they really advocating for the gatekeeper to end all gatekeepers, in the command zone to be legal, so mono manders effectively cant be played, a real bowmasters 1 toughness situation.
A 5 mana card that does nothing on its own and lacks any way to function on its own? Don't get me wrong, it's a great card but in no way is it good enough to ban.
counterspell, exile, card theft, artifact destruction. Theres a hundred way to deal with every card. run more removal.
@Doriantheloreian and when you can't play anything because ypur color is locked out of the game?
@@alecmullaney7957 IMO it is fine because iona is a card that will self regulate out of the format. It is like winter orb and stasis. If it was unbanned rn it will see some play but a year later nobody will play it because it is miserable to play against.
And in more optimized players groups it won't see play because 9 mana is too much.
So in the end Iona being unbanned is ok
Bans in cmdr are stupid. The RC needs to change its approach. Cards could be tiered, such as competitive, casual, jerky, janky, etc. Then rule 0 is declaring that and agreeing.
Hmm thats genius, instead of a small list of banned cards, we could go through every single card ever printed and give them a classification, and eveyone can memorize every single card and where it is on that list. Brilliant.