Massive Bans in Commander | Mana Crypt, Dockside Extortionist, Jeweled Lotus, Nadu Banned! | MTG
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
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Does the rules committee see cards before they are made. Some cards just shouldn’t exist if they are just gonna get banned in every format.
So can we talk about your 4 year old video about Sol Ring . . . . I think if you ban Crypt ban Sol Ring keeping Sol Ring is a joke it's 100% BS I am just going yo keep playing the banned cards I have because there reasoning was a copout. The precons could just swap it to a land and done that is also a BS reason. If arcane signet could be used in colourless decks fine or make more 2 mana colourless rocks. I play a colourless big mana deck and after a year of playing it found I needed the crypt to keep up whit all the coloured ramp
@@TheCommandersQuarters could you do a budget build for Arabella, abandoned doll?
This ban list justifies people to just proxy cards instead of buying expensive cards cuz they will get hit.
Just makes me wanna flip all my 30+ cards and get proxies ngl
By making decks cheaper??
ok, tha was always allowed
That, and never playing the expensive cards because they are game warping anyways.
They banned expensive cards people use proxy’s for… If anything it’s moving away from proxy cards. Personally I hate when people play proxy’s. But I hate it even more when people play cards. That cost over $80 each to play in casual.
40$ is still a lot of money for a card that cannot be played anywhere.
It will be less then dollar it what happens to cards not played anywhere. No demand not selling it will become 99 cents
still a Colectible, I want a Tolarian academy, I know is banned but cant aford a expensive card $200 that cannot be played
Consumer confidence hits all time low. I can't fathom buying premium products ever again.
100% this. Don't trust any card prices, we are going to start banning unfun cards! You know what's valuable? Strong cards that wind up feeling bad! If you have a stax deck (I do not) you best sell it. Ban list should ONLY be cards that break the format (ante, karakas, etc).
Any sane, rational person now is thinking "Chinese printers go BRRR"
It's not wotc though is it ? The commander format is governed by another entity.
@@KrisHammes They're not independent from one another.
Im no fan of wotc or hasboro bc of their woke nonsense. So keep that in mind before i say, pretty sure those who choose whats banned arent associated with wotc or hasboro.
I'm so bummed. I just bought a Jeweled Lotus last week. Didn't even get to play one game with it...
Your fault for wanting to play such a bland, meta, power gaming kind of card in your deck. Try to build more interesting decks rather than copy/pasting the EDHREC top 100 cards for your deck.
@@JacketVEVOwow you’re very triggered. Calm down. Just because you couldn’t afford it doesn’t mean you should take your anger out on others who do like the card.
@@Adgnor1949 I'M triggered? Bro, I'm eating good on this entire thing, watching sweaties melt down has been a blast.
@@JacketVEVO Oh, I'm no sweaty player. 90% of my decks are goofy jank and I've no desire to play cEDH. We just have a very competitive meta at my LGS and I wanted to play at a higher power level every once in a while because SOMETIMES playing a crazy powerful deck can be FUN.
@@affinityforanime Then there is a wealth of options for you aside from one of the top 10 strongest cards every printed :)
Yesterday afternoon I found out about these bans and saw the market crash. Today my mystery booster 2 showed up. So I broke open the collectors packs it comes with, and wouldn't you know it I pulled a foil jeweled lots. All I could do is laugh.
This has basically marked the end of premium cards for me. Future commander decks will be budget only. $60 or less
Good, that's the idea of the ban. Fck people who shelled out hundreds of dollars to stomp their friends in a casual format.
More fun that way
Won't be playing EDH or buying cards for EDH anymore. Just sticking to draft and cube now.
Two cards I refused to play with (Dockside, Mana Crypt), one that I never palyed with (Nadu) so this is pretty decent for me.
Obvouslly tons of empathy for people who shelled out hundreds (thousands in the case of Masterpieces...) for those Mana Crypt and Docksides though.
Let this be a lesson to stop paying so much money for so little.
I never wanted a crypt but made a colorless deck over a year ago and wanted it to keep up so I got one. oof
@@Miko_of_the_North Fortunately, there are TONS of ways to ramp in colorless that do not involve swingy cards like fast mana.
I’ve been lucky to pull mana crypts out of the ixalan sets. Never used it, have it sealed and boxed for my kids in the future to play with so they never have to worry about buying it.
I personally never used it either. I support proxies especially if you own the card and don’t want it damaged for whatever reason you don’t want to use it.
@prboy6510 I never understand this caveat mindset. That it's OK if you own the card. Do you need to have the real card on you to prove it? Does having one mana crypt mean that I can have a proxy of it in every single deck? Do you need a copy for each time you use it and should have every copy on you?
This caveat seems impractial and arbitrary. No proxies, yes proxies, or a real card for each proxy to be consistent and not arbitrary. But again, now we're breaching impractical.
Imagine the price plumets off a cliff for Jeweled lotus, you buy 1 or 2, then RC caves in and unbans it
It's coming. I'm putting my money on it.
I'm 100% about to purchase a mana crypt or two. They're going for like $70 right now
40€ in Europe. Yesterday you could refresh the page and see the cheaper and cheaper listings appear. I’m definitely picking up a few just in case they do retract. If not, hey they are nice decor 😂
You can bet I'll be picking up all three if they go low enough on the off-chance this does in fact happen.
shhh don't give the people hope
Here's my thing with these bans, if you're playing at higher power/cedh tables, then the idea is to win as fast as possible, so the fast mana fits in with that philosophy. I have seen all these cards played at lower power tables and the thing is that, yes they get you ahead, but most lower power decks don't really have a way to take advantage of a lead like that early in the game and every time those cards came down early, the person playing them pretty much just did normal turn 2 ramp and the table caught up after a couple of turns.
Exactly that’s why the community is literally on fire and the RC Reddit had to turn off comments.
These bans just incentivized more people to proxy. If they can ban mana crypt, they can ban: sol ring, gaea's cradle, cyclonic rift, craterhoof, chrome mox, mox amber, mox diamond, etc.
In my experience, they always raised that person's chance of winning by double.
It's really wild that people are trying to gaslight me into thinking that one of the best cards of all time, mana crypt, is not that impactful. If you play that card I want to play Ancestral Recall. Is that cool? My deck is not that strong so if I have three more medicore cards than you shouldn't matter right?
Playing the worlds smallest violin to those players@@nevsterk2463
As a very very recent proxy player - I am thankful this insanity has released me from ever buying mtg cards again. Think I might go on vacation or buy some bullion with all the money I will save :) Bee well
Yea only doing proxies for cEDH is objectively the smartest option. It’s the only way this sub format has lots of players.
fake player
@jackmuaddib3745
Better than a broke player
@@jackmuaddib3745 lol
So you are a broke proxy player and you are so mad for the banning a very expensive card that mostly rich people own? Interesting
Who needs a Jeweled Lotus when I can always count on a turn 17 sol ring?
Lol. I’m sorting through my collections now. Most deff taking a bow out of MTG
If even a single copy of any of these cards was sold in the last few weeks by anyone on or near the rules committee, I call bullshit.
Congress. You’re thinking of Congress.
@@TheARehmar agreed, I can only assume this as the reasons are dumb unless you're hitting sol ring as well
So we ban mana but not the easy win cons. Okay dude
My thoughts exactly: if I go for a Demonic Consultation / Thassa's Oracle and with some free interaction to defend it on a 'casual' format, does it really matter if I can pull off my win attempt turn 1-2 vs turn 3-4? Because I wouldn't think so and that's where casual players get really salty, not the fast ramp.
@@dimitriid It’s funny, because in 2010 a friend tried to get me into magic, and pulled off some infinite combo two games in a row. I didn’t look at magic again until 2020. Fast mana had nothing to do with it.
Casuals are getting thoracled for the next year due to this🤣🤣
@@dimitriid If you play thoracle in casual then you're an a**hole.
Lol you can respond to people trying to win, you can't respond to people playing these t1 before you get a t1
I would love to look into who on the RC unloaded all the banned cards before they announced it..
Can’t wait for them to meet their fans in October
just getting boo form me
October? whats going on then.
@@Gabrielarandapedroza cry harder
@@pr0fess0rbadass I have one card in my entire collection banned so not that big of a thing. But man why the hate? Did someone hurt you when you were younger?
Oh I see it's because your a young one isn't it
Honestly, the only one that hurts my heart is Dockside Extortionist… primary win-con enabler in my favorite deck is now the most expensive tea-coaster I own. Strikes me as a bit harsh too; it seems like Dockside was one of the only cards that was keeping non-blue players alive in CEDH… not anymore.
Speaking of which, it also makes me wonder why cards like Thassa’s Oracle weren’t banned. Can’t you use that card to win on like turn 2?
Yeah I mean idk… maybe we’ll get lucky and just wait for prices to plummet, pick up a couple copies before they get unbanned like protean hulk.
You could with a lot of fast mana.
@michaelandrews4305 Thassa's Oracle doesn't get banned because RC feels like it'll just get replaced by something else. There will ALWAYS be a dominant wincon because people will always want one. And what then? People complain about that wincon too, so you ban it? When does it end?
RC would rather ban enablers that would allow people to get to their wincons faster than outright ban the wincon itself.
Just play it anyway. Who is going to stop you? Rule 0 exists.
Jeweled lotus banned in it's only format that it's available in why makes now sense rule zero if you don't want to play against it
Just rule zero it in then, it’s easier to rule zero a card in than rule zero it out
From what I saw, I think they banned Rule 0
Magic could take a page from Pokémon’s playbook: keep all the meta cards accessible in regular sets and save the crazy high-value stuff for Secret Lair with alternate art. I mean, I totally get why cards like Dockside Extortionist hold value-believe me, I saved up for one-but for new players trying to jump into cEDH, it’s a steep climb. It turns deck-building into less of a game and more of a grind. Just my two cents as a former Pokémon player who’s new to the Magic scene, especially when everyone does not have a ply group or a friendly locals
you are right, I see with envy XD how even meta decks are afordable in Pokemon, All the cards come from the same boxes, no collectors, no bullshit special boosters. And yet they keep the value with Ultra rares with special art. The best part, a kid new to the game that can only aford one booster a week, can pull out THE ONE card everybody wants. That keeps the magic for the payers and also keep the value of each closed booster.
I feel like if you have to police a format to keep it casual it may not be a casual format. Like this breaks CEDH all because people can’t keep the social contract of a casual game
Every infinite combo breaks the format.
Every tutor breaks the format to get the combo to instant win...
Let the card police ban it all!
Flip side of the same coin: If CEDH wasnt so ungodfully sweaty and unfun turn 4 wins then we wouldnt need rules and bans to keep casual casual. If the CEDH players didnt bleed into the casual scene then we wouldnt need bans to keep it casual. Casuals arent the issue its the mega sweats with multi thousand dollar decks.
@@gallagher2259 fun is subjective for one so let’s knock that argument away for a moment . Does this impact truly casual decks not at all . Does it impact players who are trying to push to the edge of CEDH yes but not immensely outside of financial loss . CEDH just got completely flipped as many commanders are now not fast enough to keep up at the top level .
This ban feels like it’s aimed at reducing the pub stompers who cause the feel bads which should be dealt with by the social contract . The only group this really hurts are people who play CEDH for the competitive aspect and stores who had a lot of stock that lost immense value . The rocks have such diminishing value after the first 5 turns that this ban feels incredibly unnecessary. Dockside maybe deserved it but it’s just red ramp I know it can snowball but so can green on a tear
I don't think this is for casual at all. I've never been bothered by any of these cards as a casual, people don't loop dockside to infinite wins even if it's very strong. It's trying to tune cdh down a bit and generate more creativity. It's not like cdh is perfect and they have to police casual tables running this stuff. If anything I'm gunna tell all my casual friends to keep their dockside because it's casual and I don't care.
It actually does impact causal decks though. Even just having one of these cards was a major game changer in lower powered decks overall.
@@Infernofist666
As someone who had the 3/4 most expensive cards on this list, I’m admittedly salty, having saved up for them.
But what really grinds my gears is knowing that the rules committee and their friends 110% sold off all their copies of these cards and told their friends to do the same, and there will be no repercussions.
Sol Ring will never be banned, because that would make every pre-con worthless to purchase
This is like saying I forgot a land at home by accident so my edh deck physically cant function anymore and needs to be replaced. It's edh dude, run 99 cards and see if literally a single person even notices let alone cares. We're not exactly a high flying S tier pro tour format here.
Unfortunately I feel like the RC is so slow. Lutri was like the only time they were on top of things. If they ban sol ring that would kill every precon ever and 1 card in every deck and I would be PISSED because I don't want to figure out what other mana rocks I need to work into every deck I own and what is already there
Everyone likes Sheldon and may he rest in peace, but he was a big proponent of upper class commander. During the professor's interveiw with him, he straight up said he didn't have a problem with problematic cards as long as they were expensive and the average player couldn't afford them. Maybe things are starting to change.
I for one miss him, especially now
Price of game pieces should never be the determiner of who can play
@@fizzyheart2486if you're playing casual just proxy, if you play any tournaments competitively, competitive cards are always going to be expensive obviously. The ban doesn't make the banned cards affordable, it makes them unplayable and worthless for tournament play.
@@tehbluu5308 that’s a pretty limited view. I think it changes how many fast decks want to get to their goal, the price changes are irrelevant from a gameplay perspective. These cards were auto included in too many strats for it to be good for the format
@@fizzyheart2486 not many in casual auto includes a mana crypt, and in any tournaments a meta is created making cards expensive, people optimize at top level plays. All banning crypt did for cEDH was made people who ran it lose tons of money and causing them to replace it with the now 150$ mana vault. The people who wanted it banned will also now never be allowed to see mana crypts in play as they are banned so it doesn't even matter if they are able to get it cheaper. Your point that game pieces should never determine who can play is invalid for competitive play.
Ban list really only hurts cedh ( who tend to spend the most on these products) and anyone who put money into there hobby. If you dont like it in casual just rule zero them out (lot easier then rule zeroing them in) plenty of shops do it. Also i believe these allowed for colors that suck at ramping to ramp. Green can play 5 lands in one rotation so whats the diffrence.
Absolutely agree. That's why we always have a rule zero to begin with! It was never really a problem. You know what is a problem? Winter orb. Tergrid. Vorniclex. All still playable cards in the format. Gotta love this RC.
Its the exact opposite. cEDH in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter and should not even be remotely a smidgen of consideration for EDH rules that the committee due to the philosophy of EDH in itself is about Social and entertaining games for everybody. Rule 0 is not something you can expect for a fresh table, and if you DO want to play power cards, its your responsibility to rule 0 them in. EDH's rules should always be based around playing mid-low powered decks with strangers as it was the original intention, and ruling things in by your own table's admission is something that should be done more often.
@@BDtetra I think you've made a very good case for a separate RC for cEDH.
@@brockwhite8699 I don't necessarily even disagree with that, and if people want to do so I think that's a good thing.
But at the same time I wonder if that's actually what people want to do, since I know many people that play cEDH because its purely maximum optimized EDH decks, basically the end result of upgrading your deck through out the years. I think that's a totally different type of mentality than "I want to use powerful cards to combo out", although the end result may indeed be similar. I think the former player confine to the EDH ruleset and optimize their decks within the confines of the banlist, while the latter would simply prefer no cards to be banned at all.
@@BDtetra the exact opposite wouldn't have resulted in 3 out of the 4 cards being staples of cedh and pretty much barely in use for casual commander. Like I understand the logic of what you're claiming but if the Commander RC was truly uninterested in policing cedh why would they go out of they way to target cedh-specific cards for a banning knowing that this was the exact opposite of what the cedh community was very vocal about requesting?
This can almost raise to the level of a vindictive action after the unsuccessful attempt at a CEDH RC a few weeks ago but even if it wasn't, I have not heard a single argument to justify banning cards that barely affected the super long casual commander tables
I will not buy any sealed product anymore, and I am going to buy only singles of 20 bucks or less, I was against proxies, but now this have opened my eyes.
The fact that they’re making these rules for one group being casual and then screwing over an entire another group CEDH. is just crazy to me. I think we need to give a hard thought on whether or not we need to get rid of the rules committee. Because clearly they only care about one group.
@@dantereising7757 I find it crazy that they are using CEDH mindset to ban these cards in casual plays, the rocks are perfectly fine in casual play, their arguments are pure CEDH playstyle 😂
Save this for the Future:
Wizards is banning these cards so that they can release "light" versions of this card as chase cards in future sets. They can't have for example, a mana crypt and a mana crypt light without destroying the format. So, they ban Mana Crypt and then release "Mana Rypt" which is 1 mana, gives you two colourless and you take 1 damage each upkeep.
...but the ban wasn't from wizzards? currently theres no reason to think wizards has much influence over the RC and what they ban...also, why release "light" versions when they already used mana crypte and JL as chase cards...
It already has happened in the past, it's how we got dockside.
Also wizards doesn't ban the cards.
That's just how this little known card game called YuGiOh works. If you think this is bad, then you have no idea. At least these bans make sense for the gameplay.
Wizards did not ban these cards, it was the rules committee who is a different body entirely.
Dockside tax collector - provides tapped treasures
Rocks should not be banned, their ban do NOTING for casual edh, and ruined cedh and financial part of the mtg.
I'm glad that they don't ban Sol Ring. Because I like it
Mana crypt is not a problem. Sol ring is not a problem.
4 players in a pod. 3 target sol ring or mana crypt player... or remove it. Not a big deal.
You cannot respond to a turn one Manacrypt into signet. Their next turn, they are dropping a significant threat, which now asks for 3 forms of removal. And if your solutions "just target the PLAYER", then you are showing why it breeds unfun non-games for everyone.
@@VexylObby your argument doesn't work as turn 1 sol ring into signet makes their next turn exactly the same situation with zero life loss risk downside...
@@neillaw That wasn't what I was responding to. I was responding to turn 1 fast amana in general, being something that does its thing before it can be avoided.
If you don't get to choose who you play against then find a different place to play, or tell the event organizers to seperate into cedh and casual. If there's one player who has one deck super fast. He wins. Great, next game. If it's the same deck, say not playing against that again, choose another.. Let them understand you came there to have a back and forth game. You can say no.
A fast start feels no different then a combo player who looks innocent, then combos off out of nowhere for an instant win... when the game was going good and everyone was involved, just ending it on the spot.... yay.... win....
There are too many problematic cards, but it's the play group you get to help mold... we have an awesome play group with powerful cards, and yet have good long games and positive attitudes. We choose who we sit with and no prizes for winning. Banning cards will not stop the feel bads. Ever play against a heavy stax deck?
@VexylObby
The problem is those cards created binary states to the game. Either you answered it and kept playing or didn’t and most likely lost on the spot just because you didn’t have the removal.
Here's the thing with Sol ring, it's a dime a dozen because of it's HEAVY reprintings. With Lotus and Crypt and Extortionist all of them were expensive as hell, pricing them out of a lot of people's reach. I promise you if Sol Ring cost 50 buck or more, it probably would have been banned as well. but let's face it. EVERYONE has MULTIPLE copies of Sol ring just SITTING in bulk piles of cards. Plus really it's not quite as powerful as these three. yes it's nice, especially for non green decks, but it doesn't break games when it's dropped usually.
@@demonzero677 the 2 rocks that were banned don't break the games either, compared with sol ring
If the argument is due to rarity and cost, let the floodgates open 🤷♂️
@@neillawthey do break the game ;-;
I'm glad I limit my commander decks to less than $100 and no single card greater than $10 to keep things casual and avoid most cards on any ban list.
They only banning things because Sheldon died. Eff the RC.
My friend group and I have hated the Rules committee since they banned Golos. We have made our own ban list now, which removed quite a few from the official ban list. I expect many groups will be doing the same soon. As far as we are concerned, the rules committee can kick rocks
I loved them for all of these bans. I stand behind the idea that we should make games more balanced and diverse for the new players and strangers that play together in our format.
(also, I had a Golos deck, and was happy to see it's boring gameplay perish)
Golos was a piece of 💩 card. Ramp, colorless 5 color cheese and 3 free cards was broken asf! Good riddance
Commander… The “please don’t hurt my feelings” format.
Modern players be like: first time?
You missed the greatest part about it: Now it's basically the *ONLY* lively format as well, WOW!
I hit everyone and build carnage. 🤣 I play aggressive. I guess I am the one hurting the feelings? People do seem upset in my friend group.
@@captainhook8138 I play stax and Zur. It’s fun. For me :)
Commander has casual format, and cedh. If you want to play 5 minute games like yu gi oh, then just play cedh, if you have a compulsion to take your daily frustrations on friends, play cedh. I do not see the problem, thats why different formats exist. And yes I disagree with the bans completely, but I dont agree that all formats should be super competetive. I dont have money to build a deck for 500 euros every month.
The more effort they spend reminding players they can play the game however they want, the faster players will realize they’re mad about cardboard prices
Playing since 1998. I'm sad to see mana crypt go.
It hasn’t gone anywhere. They don’t dictate how anyone plays except tournaments . They have no real power. You can make your deck whatever you want
Same.
Don't invest into children's card games, folks!
Not all of us are quite ready to hear this just yet.
Sol ring shall never be banned. Long live sol ring.
I am just going to ignore these bannings. Sadly my playgroup will probably not let me run Iona...
Also, Jeweled Lotus getting banned is BS. It was MADE to be played in EDH. You CAN NOT play it in any format other than EDH. WotC had BETTER refund everyone who got one of those, in full. That is entirely on them.
That what makes commander attractive is that it does no rotate and you could play most cards, with some exceptions. This is wrong, because the arguments are essentially very naive and shallow. What makes a card "broken" is the potential to use it for advantageous or winning combos. But talking about potential is talking about the ceiling of the card, which is very vague at best. The ceiling for most cards can be broken, you just need a player willing to do it. The real, objective analysis can only be found analizing the floor of the card. Regarding the floor, the cards have obvious power differences, but none are broken. At the end, if you are playing to win and do that at all cost, then you are going to do it. The banlist is actually irrelevant.
I really hate these bans and until the rules committee shows their sell list, I 100% believe they inside traded their cards before this ban.
Sure, the RC is the problem, not wizards with commander legends/ masters, or wizards with double masters 1 and 2/ ixalan, or wizards with modern horizons 3
Conspiracy theories will always exist where there is non-information.
WOTC sanctioned this. They stole your money if you had these cards.
Yeah they hoarded the dozens or hundreds of Mana Crypts they would need to make a meaningful gain from this back when they were cheap (a time that totally existed 100%) and then banned after selling lmao
This is why I stopped collecting. It destroys value, and makes it a bad investment.
Finance ghouls can stay malding
Dude, it's a card game
Treating the game as an investment was your first mistake.
Isnt commander casual between friends? Rules committe doesnt police you and their ban list cant be enforced in your friend groups. Play whatever the fuck you want. If i had a regular group id say fuck the entire ban list and just play what you want as long as deck power levels are relatively even. They cant force you not to play your cards 😂 they literally mean nothing in commander outside of wizards events and shop events lol. Personally i dont spend more than $25 on a card. Thats my personal limit as i know how they kill cards. I wokt be mad at losing $25 of value on a card so i dont soend higher. So really i dont care about these cards existence at all. But i dont care if they are played against me either. My coram deck could mill those cards and steal them from you so technically if you play those cards, WE get to play those cards 😂
What prevents the cEDH community from ignoring this list and just allowing the banned cards to be played? Sponsorships?
Absolutely nothing . This is what’s crazy to me is everything is treating these people like some official board members that can dictate what we play in our house. To me this means nothing because i don’t play at tournaments or LGSs i just play at home and with friends in my two main play groups. Were not changing anything because some random supposed committee of people said we have to.
When I played against Nadu it just meant I’m going on my phone and not paying attention anymore.
I love these bans. It’s gonna be great. Less paying through the teeth to win. I hope more bans are coming. Cards costing as much as an entire deck can be really unfair.
why reduce the cards we can play with when they could just print tf out of them like sol ring. commander games are too damn long already
To be completely honest, I am pretty okay with the bans, but I am also looking at it from a much longer perspective. Yes the cards are currently banned, but there is also a chance that the cards will undergo an errata to fix the issues that caused. All three of those cards could return to the format after a few years. What I think the RC is doing is sending a message to WOTC that they don't want cards pushed into the format that have not been tested or pushed. The case in point is Nadu and WOTC being completely open that it was a rushed card designed towards commander.
If they had just banned Nadu, they wouldn't have sent a signal to WOTC to stop pushing so they had to select cards that were what had sold sets in the past. Unfortunately the cards that were attached to the ban were also all three cards that were used as chase cards for sets released after Strixhaven. This is more of a political move to communicate that poorly designed and untested cards would not be acceptable in the commander format which Nadu is.
As for people pointing at all the other obnoxious fast mana cards like Sol Ring and Smothering Tithe, Sol Ring was left because it is a part of commanders identity as a format. Smothering Tithe is a card that is really hard to justify as fast mana. It doesn't even go mana positive until it has gone around the table at least twice.
Alot of people want to point at cards that seem really fast and say that it is the problem but it never is. The real problems with fast mana become apparent when you consider what the draw engine attached to them.
People don't analyze the threat assessment at this point and flip out over silly things. Most of the community reaction to the bans is just demonstrating exactly how poor the skill of threat assessment is at the moment. The RC have seen that WOTC has become the biggest threat at the table to the format due to the card design and are wanting to push them back in a different direction. Banning cards was the only tool they had and I am sure they communicated that the commander ideals and current card design philosophy were not in alignment. WOTC put the RC into a prisoners dilemma where it was continue to watch as cards and power levels got pushed to a state where bannings would be common or commit to using a tool that they had available.
Honestly, I get why they want them gone, but at the same point, I've lost games of Commander before without anyone having any real mana rocks in play early on in a game just because the rest of the table playing normally gave the ability to draw in to/set up graveyard/Tutor out a card for cheap. Wanting a game to take at least x turns is nice, but if the rest of the table just playing the game normally ends up giving 1 player all the tools they need it doesn't matter then. (And yes this has been in lower powered pods)
Don’t care about the bans just here for the sauce and I’ve never respected the ban list unless it’s the commander because that is the only card you can consistently count on seeing every game
In terms of the timing of the bans, I don't think it's a coincidence that these occurred not too long after Sheldon's passing.
great way to usher in the post sheldon era. It's been long enough
Not too long? .... a year?
They banned the chase cards from 2 recent sets. So once WOTC sold the product they let the rules committee ban them. Yeah, kinda slimey.
The rules committee killed my Godo deck....
11:42 - Lutri is Izzet not Simic
I managed to get an answer from Jim about mana vault and he compared it to a ritual for why it wasn't banned
Sol Ring is for Commander/EDH like the Artifact lands on Pauper, many blue instants on Legacy and so on so for. Each Eternal/Not rotating format has something that is allways part of the format.
Sol ring Banned.
You mentioned the samething I told to my friends.
Banning Sol Ring make Precons illegal so It's not good for business
I like Sol Ring and everyone I play with likes the card too.
I hate 3 hour games. These bans weren't worth the financial hit. Im sorry the care bears hate losing.
Games won't take 3 hours because of these cards no longer being legal to play. Games will take 3 hours because of people casting several sweepers or because people don't want to attack. And not everyone wants to play with/against these cards. The percentage of people who actively engage with these cards is very small compared to the vast majority of players on the format. Hope this helps! 😊
@@drac8635 Then why ban them. The format wasn't hurting then. Play interaction because it's fun. If you struggle with that just play Uno.
3 hour games? Lol. I hate 8 hour games. lol. 1-1.5 hours a game is reasonable… .5 hours a game is very competitive. 🤷🏻 just my take.
@@Tetanoman The reason they got banned is because of the sheer power imbalance that happens in the games they pop up. Because then the player using these cards get targeted or get way too ahead of the rest of the table. I've seen it happen and have had it happen in games that I have played. I don't care if you sweep the board either, for the record. I'd rather have multiple board wipes than deal with these cards
Our pod doesn’t run any of these and our games are only an hour, or an hour and a half max. But that’s also because we limit board wipes to two a deck. If you can’t win 2 turns after board wiping you just artificially extend the game.
I'm so happy that this happened!!
The ban list is more a guideline than actual rules. I for one won't be mad at anyone who continues to run this
My point exactly. Thank you. Lol
That's pretty much where I'm at too. I don't play anything cEDH, but I have one or two decks that are high-power enough to keep up and still be fun for me whether I win or lose. Just my experience though.
@@maxv658 I have 36 decks… about 8 are probably considered high tier, but I typically just play for fun so even when I play those decks I’m not playing for the turn 3 win… just playing to play the deck cause I enjoy playing it. People are losing their minds over the game…
You are completely missing the point. It's the loss of value that is a gut punch. Those that are up in arms are those who have invested hard earned cash into cards tat were recently RE-PRINTED by wotc, (when they knew full well about the impending ban.) It's not an understatement that millions of dollars of value vanished over night.
@@valgeir80 while I understand your argument. And I agree and sympathize with you… HOWEVER, let me be clear cause I too have spent over $2k in the last year on cards… anyone spending $200+ on a single card should be looking at market trends and articles and format trends before dropping that kind of cash on a product. If you bought it and didn’t care you’re not worried about or the rules committee… I understand the point you’re driving home but you missed mine… the rules committee isn’t appointed or paid and have NO real say in the matter. It’s just a guideline…UNLESS you play it in sanctioned events. Play your $200 card man. I have 3 Gaea’s cradles, if someone said I can’t play it cause it’s banned I’ll just find someone else that will let me. This ban Only affects people who play competitive tournaments. 👍
Genuinely, I have no problem with these bans. However, I want to know how many copies of these cards the RC has before the ban and after. Rumors going around say Starcity Games stopped buying jeweled lotus 2 months ago. Ban all you want, but I won't stand to see players hit financially while RC profits.
I think the fact Sol Ring is far cheaper than other fast mana is a reason it’s not banned … it’s easily accessible to everyone
Screw the commander committee tanked my jeweled lotus and dockside. Ruined my hope of get a mana crypt chase card. Also, still haven't banned kinnan
jeweled lotus and mana crypt didn't deserve to be banned I'd be open to an argument for dockside but still not ban worthy and nadu we were already told but didn't deserve to be banned honestly I hate ban lists the only time I allow ban lists is when it requires things outside of the game such as chaos orb and similar cards or some that just have terrible wordin and doesn't play nicely with the rules honestly these bans were dumb and didn't need to happen
I play a lot of decks with green and even I think this is a terrible idea. Now non-green decks have less ramp making green even better...
How many commander players did they lose? Was this worth it?
I will never spend money on magic cards again. I'm selling all my cards, playing proxies only from now on.
We need a cedh banlist. Protect the slow, casual players from fast mana etc. But make a proper cedh list, maintain it. It would benefit both groups/formats
You may finally get jewled lotus for your budget price of under $1
I wonder if some American thats pissed off will actually sue someone for potential insider trading and market manipulation.
And yeah, consumer confidence in WotC premium products is out the window. Proxies will have a huge revival, and this will hurt WotC. I also wonder if they will take action as well?
I'm actually Pretty fine with most of these bans.
Imo, Mana Crypt needed a ban for a long time.
Dockside was wholey justified and people have been pushing for it for a long time.
Nadu is fair though I never got to cast mine in my Landfall deck.
I'm not sure Jeweled Lotus should have been. Since its useless Outside commander. I'd have been more for Chrome Mox or Mana Vault than Lotus. Personally I am a big fan of Banning Fast Mana and forcing games to be slower, more social and more interactive.
I think tho that all this ban does is make WotC for-Commander design look bad since 3 of these were Cards designed for Commander. Especially Nadu. When Nadu got banned In Modern they made the excuse that they designed it for Commander. Then the CRC Banned Nadu. Hopefully this ends the Philosophy of Designing Commander Cards in Non-Commander Sets.
And I will note: I only personally owned a Nadu out of all of these. But I ran hate specifically for blowing up Mana Crypts in a lotta my decks. Like Gorilla Shaman & Gleeful Demolition & Mana Tithe.
Nadu is annoying but have you ever played against sakashima/krark?
You live and die by the gambles of coin flips its fair
Lutri is not simic. It is izzet. Just correcting the error.
I'm on the casual side of things and so are most people I play with. Yet we all run these kinds of cards. It isn't about powerful, it's about how easy they are to enable degenerate game plans. So unless you're playing something gross, I'm fine with fast mana. Especially for those of us running commanders that cost up to 8 mana.
cheating on mana is the most broken thing you can do in every magic the gathering format in existence. running the most powerful mana-cheating cards immediately disqualifies you from being a casual. that's just what it is. If you are doing the broken thing then you are by definition a competitive player.
If you're running those cards, you aren't on the casual side of things
@@lmuserl Not true... intent is everything. Running a jeweled lotus in a bosh the iron golem deck is totally reasonable.
@@Martin-qb2mw If you played with us, you'd understand. Try being open to new information instead of just assuming things about other people and their play styles. I'd argue all fast mana is fine if you aren't running anything busted. Fast mana enables the broken thing, it isn't the broken thing. Miss the part about running 7-8 mana commanders in those examples?
Here's WOTC's business plan.
A) Create chase cards like Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus.
B) Put them in new sets to generate hype.
C) Sell tons of the new set because of said hype.
D) 18 months later, ban said cards in the format, erasing their value and resetting the board.
E) Wait another 18 months till goldfish players forget about previous banning, then go back to A.
Hey, hey, hey, we just banned some cards, pay no attention to that, look at this MARVEL LEAK, GET EXCITED, TALK ABOUT THAT PLEASE.
The yu-gi-oh approach. And the thing about whales, they never actually give it up. They will cry and talk a big game but at the end of the day, when that set gets released, they're pre-ordering as much of the most expensive versions they can get their hands on. Anyone who whales asked for this like it or not. And wotc heard you
if they banned sol ring WOTC would find a way to get rid of rules council
Think about those people the spent money on ixalan to get a crypt. Damn.
makes no sence there just isnt 2 ban lists. we have vintage, legacy, modern, pioneer, standard... so people of all budget/skill can play a format that works for them. commander is the most played paper format... just make CEDH an offical format. with a very small ban list... and then make commander seperate and casual and Ban lots of stuff. its really not that hard
i love the salt. im half tempted to buy up some cheap crypts and lotus for when they unban these due to backlash. regarding sol ring, ban it and remove 1 card from the format. 99 cards including commander.
I think your right about sol ring. Low card value and it being in pre cons. How do you sell any old precons and new precons that are unplayable out of the box.
Im surprised im in the minority in agreeing with the bans. Jeweled lotus was a mistake and mana crypt made tourneys a game of mull the perfect mana. I play commander to spend time with friends, these bans help that become a reality. This is even after i have to pull dockside from my pirates and prosper decks. Im happy to do it if the game goes on longer.
you arent in the minority, its just that usually people that have a problem with these things have the bigger voice, just like it usually is.
I own 3 Crypts and 1 Dockside but I never was planning to sell them anyway (I don't ever sell cards) and I wasn't using them in any deck due to them feeling pretty oppressive and one sided to use in my personal experience, so I don't really feel much of a loss with the ban nor did it really hurt me in anyway. Technically a money loss but practically, because I was never planning to sell any of them it wasn't. Tbh I think they are too slow on bans which is the main issue, and made the wound bigger than necessary considering they knew Dockside and Lotus were both huge issues the moment they came out. There should be more frequent bans, and also probably a public watchlist to show which cards they are keeping an eye on, just like what they said publically about dockside before this ban, just in text form and always accessible on their site.
@@BDtetra thats a really good point bro, they should have been more attentive. It shouldn’t have taken nadu for this to happen.
You're not in the minority in thinking these were good bans. The thing is the real reason most of these guys are upset is because the bans came way too late, putting a lot of people out of a lot of investment cause they thought commander would never get bans again.
I 100% agree. Lol maybe because I try to make my decks as diverse as possible, but I don't think these bans are bad. Just forces people to think a little harder for solutions. Lol there's 15,000 cards in MTG. Losing 3 shouldn't be that bad
These cards did not deserve to be banned especially out of no where commander should be a open format and cEDH is a wonderful way to play this hurts commander as a whole I hope people can see how negative these bans are
If wizards wanted to make a separation between cedh and edh this wasn’t the way to do. I will happily and gladly ignore these bans
...wizards arn't the ones who do the bans fomr commander tho? and the RC has always said that ban list is suggestions, and to talk with players and see whats ok and that you absolutly can always play whatever you want with your pod?
It's not wizards 🤦♂️
@@alexander50896 you can’t use banned cards in tournaments. They aren’t officially legal to use anymore. Which makes cards with high finical value almost worth nothing
Cope
I’ve said this to my playgroup in the past, but I think that Lutri should have been unbanned a long time ago. Considering the Companion mechanic was heavily nerfed, I don’t really see people willing to cut a slot out of the deck for a counterspell they would have to pay 6 mana into in order to use it from the companion zone.
Anyone buying these cards I’d not want to play with anyway.
Good riddance! And I own 2/3 of these guys!
Pull it fine, spending hundreds on buying them? Your nuts and are clearly not playing for fun.
Wut? "just proxy bro!"
Facts id never spend 200$ on a card no sir
Its fun for me play the old cards like Mox Diamant, Cradle and Dual Lands so You dont want to play with me its a win for me in my book 😂🎉
@@pascalraskal9347 well I own all but the mox.
I’m just not dumb enough to spend rent money on them
And decent players don’t need them to win.
mana crypt is iconic.. its been around as long as edh has been a thing. its 29/30 year old card.
Can also urza turn 2 with a sol ring and two islands. That's what throws me. Why not ban sol ring?
Fast mana belong to high-power tables. Figure out a way to make a list of cards people shouldn't be running on casual pods with randoms and don't straight up ban them for the rest of us.
Cant wait to pick one up for under a dollar. The art on them is sweet.
RC for EDH shouldnt exist in the first place....
I bought jeweled lotus texturized and mana crypt full art foil last week, dont even have them yet 😢
So a committee with some people that have a say on making the cards. Allow the cards to be created. Reprinted and then banned. After hitting new highs on the outside market. I mean it seems rather unethical. It's clear they are trying to get more people to buy more new sets. Having these staples in secondary markets be so high stops them from being in the game. In short the rules committee sold out.
Why still the product? Just proxy everything now since by a time it might be banned
Sol ring should be companion erated so can always play turn one :)
Painbow has no sol ring.
Banning these cards actually don’t make sense to me.
Wonder if the massive card draw ban they did in Flesh and Blood encouraged them to finally ban some cards in commander.
these cards alone dont win you the game soo they shouldnt be banned. dockside had some infinite mana combos that were easy but you also need an outlet for it. this only hits cedh. If people want to cater to casual players this isnt the way to do it. Where are their goals now? Many new/casual players look to building more power into their decks this takes away options. just because a format is popular doesn't mean people wont drop it. I'll admit casual players are a huge % of their customers but I'd say an even higher % of the player base have at least one of these cards. Just because its cardboard doesnt take away from the real value these cards had not that the rules committee makes money from the cards but this type of thing will make people think twice about their decisions.
THE MTG COMMANDER META HASNT CHANGED SINCE 2016 WHEN I STARTED THIS FUCKING GAME
IT IS TIME TO STOP
Im so happy this is the best take they could have had on the game theres So many different ways to get around doing the same thing.The dockside does it's just different cards Stop putting man a crypt in every deck.Stop putting that in every deck.Stop putting a jeweled lotus and every deck it just got out of hand this year especially in tournament play Nadu just broke an entire tournament they loved that so much dont yall remeber telling wizards stop crying about it
they did they banned that. everything stupid and ovetsaturated always had a target on their back
for example BLACK LOTUS BEEN BANNED FOR A DECADE
where yall just not loved growing up do yall need a hug ? Its wild